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(CBS News)   Western efforts against the Taliban have been so successful that Afghanistan is expecting a record opium harvest   (cbsnews.com) divider line 116
    More: Sad, Afghanistan, opium, Taliban, Afghan National Security Forces, poppy, opium poppies, crops, Afghan government  
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4090 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Apr 2013 at 12:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-15 09:11:09 AM
Does subby think the only opium growers in Afghanistan are Taliban?
 
2013-04-15 09:14:01 AM
Does subby think more opiates are a bad thing?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-04-15 09:15:46 AM

Dinki: Does subby think the only opium growers in Afghanistan are Taliban?


Probably not, considering that the Taliban banned opium growing.
 
2013-04-15 09:16:00 AM
Considering we're a society in which the first question people ask someone who just came from the doctor is "Did they give you the good stuff" Americans don't really have any room to talk about opiates.
 
2013-04-15 10:16:21 AM
Fark's sake, long as we're in Afghanistan why not just buy up the damn opium crop ourselves? It actually does have use as a painkiller, after all.  Long as the farmers sell only to us, we're cool. If not, well...
 
2013-04-15 10:28:13 AM
I told all of you nine years ago to go short on opium futures.
 
2013-04-15 10:46:01 AM

Gulper Eel: Fark's sake, long as we're in Afghanistan why not just buy up the damn opium crop ourselves? It actually does have use as a painkiller, after all.  Long as the farmers sell only to us, we're cool. If not, well...


Because drugs are bad. Unless they're amphetamines.
 
2013-04-15 11:27:39 AM
Nothing a plague of locusts won't fix.

/let's get biblical, biblical
 
2013-04-15 11:31:50 AM
Sure, let the US take all the credit when we all know this is Global Warming's fault.
 
2013-04-15 11:42:03 AM
southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com
 
2013-04-15 11:55:06 AM

doglover: Gulper Eel: Fark's sake, long as we're in Afghanistan why not just buy up the damn opium crop ourselves? It actually does have use as a painkiller, after all.  Long as the farmers sell only to us, we're cool. If not, well...

Because drugs are bad. Unless they're amphetamines.


Yes, but don't let the doctors know that you drink wine or smoke pot on occasion; just let them stock you up with xanax, vicodan, flexoril and such. You must remain in their control.
 
2013-04-15 12:22:59 PM
The fragraaaance of

Afghanistan

rewards a long days toil
 
2013-04-15 12:29:47 PM
I've been thinking of taking up heroin. This clinches it.
 
2013-04-15 12:44:28 PM
WOOHOOOO, cheap smack!

//I mean, uh... ew.  Ship it all to Russia!
 
2013-04-15 12:49:47 PM
When will I be able to take the Pepsi Challenge against that Afghani shiat?
 
2013-04-15 12:56:46 PM
Wait wait, I think I have it.

If the US is involved, drugs are guaranteed to not only survive- but thrive.
 
2013-04-15 12:58:51 PM
If they grew corn we could leave and they could eat.
 
2013-04-15 12:59:10 PM
Well, we taught them free enterprise and the principles of an efficient supply chain, so that's nice.
 
2013-04-15 01:00:11 PM

miss diminutive: Nothing a plague of locusts won't fix.

/let's get biblical, biblical


I wanna get biblical
let's get biblicalllll
let me hear your bush talk
your bush talk
 
2013-04-15 01:00:20 PM
Rebuilding the Middle East, one unemployed chain-snatching burnout deadbeat American at a time.

U-S-A!
U-S-A!
U-S-A!
 
2013-04-15 01:02:18 PM
I think there is a cocaine glut as well.  One thing 'bout speedballin', it does help one to be punctual.
 
2013-04-15 01:03:18 PM

vpb: Dinki: Does subby think the only opium growers in Afghanistan are Taliban?

Probably not, considering that the Taliban banned opium growing.


The Taliban 'banned' opium harvesting in 2001 as the global market was flooded and it was prudent to let demand catch up with supply.

There will likely be another 'ban' next year.
 
2013-04-15 01:03:23 PM
Because the religious extremists are the better alternative, Subby?
 
2013-04-15 01:04:35 PM
The point of the "coalition" war against Afghanistan is not religion or freedom, it's who gets to control the country's mineral and natural riches: the CIA or anybody else.

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes:

WOOHOOOO, cheap smack!

//I mean, uh... ew.  Ship it all to Russia!


Don't forget China, Iran, Pakistan and North Korea. Remember the Opium Wars, and keep that example strapped between your eyes.
 
2013-04-15 01:05:03 PM
bumper crop?
 
2013-04-15 01:06:53 PM

vpb: Dinki: Does subby think the only opium growers in Afghanistan are Taliban?

Probably not, considering that the Taliban banned opium growing.


Either you're giving Subbytoo much credit or he/she forgot to let us know that he/she knows this.
 
2013-04-15 01:07:42 PM
I thought Big Pharm was buying the opium in Afghanistan to make medicine?
 
2013-04-15 01:10:19 PM

The One True TheDavid: The point of the "coalition" war against Afghanistan is not religion or freedom, it's who gets to control the country's mineral and natural riches: the CIA or anybody else.

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes:

WOOHOOOO, cheap smack!

//I mean, uh... ew.  Ship it all to Russia!

Don't forget China, Iran, Pakistan and North Korea. Remember the Opium Wars, and keep that example strapped between your eyes.


Well, if we are really fighting for that, then it should be noted that apparently, countries in the coalition (the US included) have not made many moves on the rights to those minerals.
 
2013-04-15 01:10:26 PM

Gulper Eel: Fark's sake, long as we're in Afghanistan why not just buy up the damn opium crop ourselves? It actually does have use as a painkiller, after all.  Long as the farmers sell only to us, we're cool. If not, well...


Hey stop making sense!

We might as well buy it up from them. "Hey you sell to your Uncle Sam. It be a shame for a stray
incendiary to hit that nice field of yours."
 
2013-04-15 01:10:32 PM
Legalize cannabis and opium worldwide, Afghanistan is a rich and peaceful country tomorrow. America will still be a shiathole though.
 
2013-04-15 01:11:34 PM

AbbeySomeone: doglover: Gulper Eel: Fark's sake, long as we're in Afghanistan why not just buy up the damn opium crop ourselves? It actually does have use as a painkiller, after all.  Long as the farmers sell only to us, we're cool. If not, well...

Because drugs are bad. Unless they're amphetamines.

Yes, but don't let the doctors know that you drink wine or smoke pot on occasion; just let them stock you up with xanax, vicodan, flexoril and such. You must remain in their control.


There are quite a few doctors who would not mind being legally allowed to prescribe weed in cases where it might be beneficial (look at CA and CO among others), if it were not illegal.

I do not know if Big Pharma is really "conspiring" with anyone to keep weed etc. illegal but they do have economic interests to lobby against legalization and I'm sure there have been instances where they have done just that (too lazy to look this up). In any case it is not really the US medical establishment who is stinking things up here.
 
2013-04-15 01:11:47 PM

Dinki: Does subby think the only opium growers in Afghanistan are Taliban?


Does Subby think that the intent of the US Government was to STOP the Opium trade?

/See: Money Laundering (Drug Trade)
 
2013-04-15 01:13:51 PM

Aarontology: Considering we're a society in which the first question people ask someone who just came from the doctor is "Did they give you the good stuff" Americans don't really have any room to talk about opiates.


This; just legalize the stuff = problem solved.
 
2013-04-15 01:14:40 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: I do not know if Big Pharma is really "conspiring" with anyone to keep weed etc


I lean more towards the prison industry and other industries that help keep the police, DEA and other groups outfitted.
 
2013-04-15 01:15:53 PM
So we are saying global warming is good for poppies?
 
2013-04-15 01:20:07 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: AbbeySomeone: doglover: Gulper Eel: Fark's sake, long as we're in Afghanistan why not just buy up the damn opium crop ourselves? It actually does have use as a painkiller, after all.  Long as the farmers sell only to us, we're cool. If not, well...

Because drugs are bad. Unless they're amphetamines.

Yes, but don't let the doctors know that you drink wine or smoke pot on occasion; just let them stock you up with xanax, vicodan, flexoril and such. You must remain in their control.

There are quite a few doctors who would not mind being legally allowed to prescribe weed in cases where it might be beneficial (look at CA and CO among others), if it were not illegal.

I do not know if Big Pharma is really "conspiring" with anyone to keep weed etc. illegal but they do have economic interests to lobby against legalization and I'm sure there have been instances where they have done just that (too lazy to look this up). In any case it is not really the US medical establishment who is stinking things up here.


I live in Seattle so your point is something....
I can buy weed off Craigslist.
 
2013-04-15 01:20:17 PM

Gulper Eel: Fark's sake, long as we're in Afghanistan why not just buy up the damn opium crop ourselves? It actually does have use as a painkiller, after all.  Long as the farmers sell only to us, we're cool. If not, well...


IIRC, we (the US and Europe) did pretty much that with Turkey after WW1.
 
2013-04-15 01:26:27 PM
Lower prices for heroin!
 
2013-04-15 01:28:52 PM
media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-15 01:30:27 PM
What a heaping load of smelly misdirection and outright lies.
ION: Black is the new White. Up is the new down.
Trust me, I am your Media source of facts and world knowledge. Move along.
 
2013-04-15 01:32:54 PM
Thanks 0bama.
 
2013-04-15 01:32:59 PM

fireclown: Gulper Eel: Fark's sake, long as we're in Afghanistan why not just buy up the damn opium crop ourselves? It actually does have use as a painkiller, after all.  Long as the farmers sell only to us, we're cool. If not, well...

IIRC, we (the US and Europe) did pretty much that with Turkey after WW1.


Opium has run the World for centuries.
Global Warming, New Order Nannys nor America's misguided Partisanship has changed that.
 
2013-04-15 01:34:13 PM

LegacyDL: I thought Big Pharm was buying the opium in Afghanistan to make medicine?


You mean I can buy Opium Futures???
 
2013-04-15 01:34:48 PM
doglover:
Because drugs are bad. Unless they're amphetamines.

Unless they're manufactured by someone that donates to political campaigns.

Marijuana is bad. Marinol is ok used to help appetite in AIDS patients and as an anti nausea medicine in cancer patients.
 
2013-04-15 01:35:09 PM

Dinki: Does subby think the only opium growers in Afghanistan are Taliban?


Obviously not, because subby wouldn't make such a ridiculous statement.

vpb: Dinki: Does subby think the only opium growers in Afghanistan are Taliban?

Probably not, considering that the Taliban banned opium growing.


That is incorrect.  The Taliban relies on poppy harvests for their funding, as they "tax" farmers to fund their operations.
 
2013-04-15 01:36:06 PM
I will never understand the mentality behind the support for the war on drugs.

Freedom to make bad investments and die slowly on the street with no food or medicine? Don't spend a dime on that, that's personal accountability.
Freedom to take addictive drugs? Oh we have to spend BILLIONS a year to stop that.
 
2013-04-15 01:37:31 PM

Hillbilly Jim: miss diminutive: Nothing a plague of locusts won't fix.

/let's get biblical, biblical

I wanna get biblical
let's get biblicalllll
let me hear your bush talk
your bush talk


i.ytimg.com

She'll be ridin' six white horses when she comes...
 
2013-04-15 01:42:30 PM

vpb: Dinki: Does subby think the only opium growers in Afghanistan are Taliban?

Probably not, considering that the Taliban banned opium growing.


Maybe subby wasn't being sarcastic
 
2013-04-15 01:43:10 PM
Maybe I could read what I'm replying to
 
2013-04-15 01:44:10 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Thanks 0bama.


And here he had us all thinking his policies were anti-small business! Well, maybe it's big business.
 
2013-04-15 01:45:12 PM

hitlersbrain: I will never understand the mentality behind the support for the war on drugs.

Freedom to make bad investments

You want the government to spend money to prevent people from making bad investments? That makes no sense.

and die slowly on the street with no food or medicine? Don't spend a dime on that, that's personal accountability.
You think that the government doesn't spend any money on food and medicine for the poor?  Really?

Freedom to take addictive drugs? Oh we have to spend BILLIONS a year to stop that.
It is only because people are not living up to the social contract.  If we are supposed to all chip in on other people's health care, then they should not be taking drugs and it is our obligation to stop them as a way to lower health care costs for everyone. No different than Bloomberg stopping smoking indoors or trying to prevent people from buying a large soda.
 
2013-04-15 01:45:37 PM

neversubmit: Afghan opium production increases for 3rd year in a row, nearing record

The boom in poppy cultivation is at its most pronounced in the Taliban's heartland in the south, the report showed, especially in regions where troops of the U.S.-led coalition have been withdrawn or are in the process of departing. The report suggests that whatever international efforts have been made to wean local farmers off the crop, they are having little success.

Yeah, right, sure, lie all you want we know what's really going on.


From another thread, because I'm just that awesome!

/stoned
 
2013-04-15 01:45:53 PM

vpb: Dinki: Does subby think the only opium growers in Afghanistan are Taliban?

Probably not, considering that the Taliban banned opium growing.


um, what ?
 
2013-04-15 01:49:01 PM
Headline makes no sense; opium isn't' the exclusive province of the Taliban.
 
2013-04-15 01:51:04 PM

hitlersbrain: I will never understand the mentality behind the support for the war on drugs.


Because drugs are bad and war is good.
 
2013-04-15 01:52:53 PM
Hey! That looks like Scott, he got busted selling meth, so he is in the army now guarding opium fields.

legionmagazine.com
 
2013-04-15 01:55:36 PM

vpb: Dinki: Does subby think the only opium growers in Afghanistan are Taliban?

Probably not, considering that the Taliban banned opium growing.


They haven't banned opium growing any more than they have banned cell phones and television. They've banned opium growing only if you're not giving them the proceeds.

I thought Big Pharm was buying the opium in Afghanistan to make medicine?

Nope...there are only a couple nations that allow legal opium tar harvesting, one being New Zealand...and they're making a boatload of money, so they do NOT want cheap Afghan opium competing with them.
 
2013-04-15 02:03:46 PM
We use it to soften up the enemy.

Iranians Suffering From Afghan/US Opium Cultivation

Iran, like most other countries of the world has had a heroin problem for many years, but its current spike of addiction is inextricably linked to the Western invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. During the Taliban's rule, which began in the 90s following the defeat of the Soviets, the Muslim fundamentalists outlawed poppy cultivation for being un-Islamic
 
2013-04-15 02:06:43 PM
Look out. Rich clandestine national organizations WITH MONEY are dangerous things.

Here comes another war!!1! Iran? China? Canada? Texas?

/Women in combat? Just in time for the draft!!1!
/They're gonna take your pappy and your mammy, your sonny and your little one in pig tails, your little bro and your big sis. But NOT your senator's son.
 
2013-04-15 02:07:41 PM
1. War on drugs
2. War on terra
3. Goto 1
 
2013-04-15 02:08:53 PM
"The report suggests that whatever international efforts have been made to wean local farmers off the crop, they are having little success."

Agent Orange their fields. Burn and salt their fields.

Problem solved.
 
2013-04-15 02:09:35 PM

neversubmit: Hey! That looks like Scott, he got busted selling meth, so he is in the army now guarding opium fields.

[legionmagazine.com image 515x347]


www.budsmagazine.com

Don't forget the herb. Why doesn't opium rate a Bradley? Why just the ganja?
 
2013-04-15 02:11:29 PM
www.newagecitizen.com
 
2013-04-15 02:13:55 PM

jshine: Headline makes no sense; opium isn't' the exclusive province of the Taliban.


Still Obama's fault
 
2013-04-15 02:14:14 PM
legalize ALL drugs
make them OTC to anyone over 18
death for giving them to under 18, unless you are the parent

TADA
you put the black market out of business with one law.
TADA
no more drug warlords, no more taliban trying to stomp out poppies

/sigh - cue the "drugs are bad" tards .... like the war on drugs has been good for ANYONE other than drug lords?
 
2013-04-15 02:16:38 PM

hitlersbrain: I will never understand the mentality behind the support for the war on drugs.

Freedom to make bad investments and die slowly on the street with no food or medicine? Don't spend a dime on that, that's personal accountability.
Freedom to take addictive drugs? Oh we have to spend BILLIONS a year to stop that.


because small government requires you to interfere with individual decisions !!!
LOL

seriously, the same people who want small gov, are also in favor of restricting rights.
makes no farking sense other than JESUS!!!
 
2013-04-15 02:16:42 PM

neversubmit: Hey! That looks like Scott, he got busted selling meth, so he is in the army now guarding opium fields.


legionmagazine.com

"Ramirez! Call your family and harvest all these poppies!"
 
2013-04-15 02:17:15 PM

namatad: /sigh - cue the "drugs are bad" tards .... like the war on drugs has been good for ANYONE other than drug lords?


So.. OTC PCP?

You're ok with that?
 
2013-04-15 02:19:52 PM

Rurouni: "The report suggests that whatever international efforts have been made to wean local farmers off the crop, they are having little success."

Agent Orange their fields. Burn and salt their fields.

Problem solved.


Already tried. result: The Taliban use that as propaganda to recruit more insurgents. Their reasoning: "If the Afghan government and the infidels cared about you, they wouldn't tear up your fields...we compassionate souls in the Taliban understand that this may be the only way for you to make money, and as long as you're only doing it in the service of jihad to repel these invaders and overthrow the apostate government, it's OK for now."

"But if you're doing it to make money for yourself, then insh'allah, we'll cut your head off and rape your wife and children."
 
2013-04-15 02:22:29 PM
We have shattered the OPEC heroin cartel.

I am looking forward to the reduction in prices and raised quality that this portends. It looks like Ron Paul was right -- the free markets, they'll fix anything!

And before you get all uppity and judgmental, I use the heroin to keep my kids calm so they'll do their homework. Future leaders...
 
2013-04-15 02:25:36 PM
i thought they were supposed to plant Potatoes instead of Opiates
damn them
damn them all to hell
 
2013-04-15 02:30:33 PM

Treygreen13: namatad: /sigh - cue the "drugs are bad" tards .... like the war on drugs has been good for ANYONE other than drug lords?

So.. OTC PCP?

You're ok with that?


so yah ....
PCP, antivirals and antibiotics are probably not a good idea .....
that being said, would the "damage" from PCP users increase? is it really a big problem or a red-herring ...
but yah .... PCP is probably a no ....

alas, in the end, people who are going to abuse and use insane drugs are going to be able to get insane drugs and abuse them ....
 
2013-04-15 02:31:14 PM

namatad: legalize ALL drugs
make them OTC to anyone over 18
death for giving them to under 18, unless you are the parent

TADA
you put the black market out of business with one law.
TADA
no more drug warlords, no more taliban trying to stomp out poppies

/sigh - cue the "drugs are bad" tards .... like the war on drugs has been good for ANYONE other than drug lords?


Hell no
The last thing we need are the return of opium dens or legalized crack houses.

Weed and maybe ecstasy are one thing, opiates are life destroying if abused and should be used for painkillers only
 
2013-04-15 02:32:29 PM
opium dens are bad because they mean one thign:  SEX
 
2013-04-15 02:36:00 PM
The wizard is just gonna have to wait man cause I'm gonna stretch out in this field of POPPIES POPPIES POPPIES
 
2013-04-15 02:38:12 PM

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: neversubmit: Hey! That looks like Scott, he got busted selling meth, so he is in the army now guarding opium fields.

[legionmagazine.com image 515x347]

"Ramirez! Call your family and harvest all these poppies!"


Yes sir!
www.zimfamilycockers.com
 
2013-04-15 02:39:31 PM
I think perhaps l put my money on White Powder Ma.
I think so.
 
2013-04-15 02:43:41 PM
www.newagecitizen.com

BTW, what unit is that guy from? And why are his patches full-color?

/I think I hear black helicopters circling....here, let me put on my tinfoil....
 
2013-04-15 02:43:51 PM
A little bit tired of walking down this old blinding yellow brick road
So I pulled my little tired body off to a little rest area,
And lo and behold there's a little field of little red
flowers out there.

[Sniff] Smells so good. Whoa! Getting pretty tired.
Smells so good [sniff]

Figured I'd just strectch out for a bit in this little field of...
poppies poppies poppies poppies poppies poppies ....

I was having a really strange dream, man, you know,
Little red flowers just smell awfully good

I was having a great time
The old wizard's just going to have to wait, man.

And I'm just going to strecth out again in this field of poppies.
OhgodohgodDorothyDorothypoppiesfieldpoppiesfield...

i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-15 02:45:10 PM

Aarontology: Considering we're a society in which the first question people ask someone who just came from the doctor is "Did they give you the good stuff" Americans don't really have any room to talk about opiates.


THIS!
 
2013-04-15 02:46:14 PM
Just legitimize it so that our pharmaceutical companies can use the grown stuff instead of manufacturing it... saves pharma money, and allows Afghanis to make money growing one of the few things that actually grows in their terrain.
 
2013-04-15 02:49:21 PM

Hillbilly Jim: miss diminutive: Nothing a plague of locusts won't fix.

/let's get biblical, biblical

I wanna get biblical
let's get biblicalllll
let me hear your bush talk
your bush talk


isn't that how we ended up there in the first place?
 
2013-04-15 02:53:34 PM

namatad: that being said, would the "damage" from PCP users increase? is it really a big problem or a red-herring ...


Probably, if you could go to Walgreens and buy some PCP.

I think the problem with "legalize everything" is that once you start thinking about it you start to remember why some of the stuff is illegal. Considering how terribly addicting and life-ruining Meth is, maybe it's a good thing that you can't stop by a grocery store and pick up some meth for funsies. And keep in mind that the population you're thinking of releasing *all the drugs* to can't even handle regulating their own  foodintake and need to be reminded that they shouldn't text while driving 70mph on the freeway. The kinds of people I worry about having unlimited access to drugs aren't the people here debating it, it's the cast of Buckwild shooting up some heroin and then deciding that they're going to go drive around for a while.
 
2013-04-15 03:10:58 PM

Treygreen13: namatad: that being said, would the "damage" from PCP users increase? is it really a big problem or a red-herring ...

Probably, if you could go to Walgreens and buy some PCP.

I think the problem with "legalize everything" is that once you start thinking about it you start to remember why some of the stuff is illegal. Considering how terribly addicting and life-ruining Meth is, maybe it's a good thing that you can't stop by a grocery store and pick up some meth for funsies. And keep in mind that the population you're thinking of releasing *all the drugs* to can't even handle regulating their own  foodintake and need to be reminded that they shouldn't text while driving 70mph on the freeway. The kinds of people I worry about having unlimited access to drugs aren't the people here debating it, it's the cast of Buckwild shooting up some heroin and then deciding that they're going to go drive around for a while.


We should have a place, like the British did back in the day, where all the people that commit a drug felony are allowed to go and roam free, or waste away or something. Like a 51th state of Puerto Rico, and all the tweakers, pot heads, crack heads, and such can just waste away or something. Maybe not Puerto Rico, but Guam perhaps? And their sentence will be to waste away until they die. No food for them (they must work for that) but all the cheap drugs they can smoke or stick on them. Like a hotel California...
 
2013-04-15 03:18:06 PM

Treygreen13: namatad: that being said, would the "damage" from PCP users increase? is it really a big problem or a red-herring ...

Probably, if you could go to Walgreens and buy some PCP.

I think the problem with "legalize everything" is that once you start thinking about it you start to remember why some of the stuff is illegal. Considering how terribly addicting and life-ruining Meth is, maybe it's a good thing that you can't stop by a grocery store and pick up some meth for funsies. And keep in mind that the population you're thinking of releasing *all the drugs* to can't even handle regulating their own  foodintake and need to be reminded that they shouldn't text while driving 70mph on the freeway. The kinds of people I worry about having unlimited access to drugs aren't the people here debating it, it's the cast of Buckwild shooting up some heroin and then deciding that they're going to go drive around for a while.


sure
but what we have instead is insane.
people who need pain meds are treated like drug addicts and have massive problems getting what they need (your mileage may vary by state, gender and age, illinois is one of the worst)
and the damage done by drug lords greatly exceeds the damage done by all drug users put together.
The assumption that usage would go up if drugs were legal is questionable at best.
How do you even measure an increase in usage when there is no real data today on current illegal usage?
Estimates are just that.

plus, when you talk about casual coke, pot or shroom usage, ...
bah

in the end, illegal heroin has lead to a huge amount of horrific unintended consequences.
I would much rather live in a society which treats addicts as sick people and helps when it cans, rather than a society which rewards the black markets and punishes the addicts as criminals ...

/sigh
 
2013-04-15 03:19:17 PM

elgrancerdo: Treygreen13: namatad: that being said, would the "damage" from PCP users increase? is it really a big problem or a red-herring ...

Probably, if you could go to Walgreens and buy some PCP.

I think the problem with "legalize everything" is that once you start thinking about it you start to remember why some of the stuff is illegal. Considering how terribly addicting and life-ruining Meth is, maybe it's a good thing that you can't stop by a grocery store and pick up some meth for funsies. And keep in mind that the population you're thinking of releasing *all the drugs* to can't even handle regulating their own  foodintake and need to be reminded that they shouldn't text while driving 70mph on the freeway. The kinds of people I worry about having unlimited access to drugs aren't the people here debating it, it's the cast of Buckwild shooting up some heroin and then deciding that they're going to go drive around for a while.

We should have a place, like the British did back in the day, where all the people that commit a drug felony are allowed to go and roam free, or waste away or something. Like a 51th state of Puerto Rico, and all the tweakers, pot heads, crack heads, and such can just waste away or something. Maybe not Puerto Rico, but Guam perhaps? And their sentence will be to waste away until they die. No food for them (they must work for that) but all the cheap drugs they can smoke or stick on them. Like a hotel California...


Coventry -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coventry_(short_story)
 
2013-04-15 03:19:37 PM

elgrancerdo: We should have a place, like the British did back in the day, where all the people that commit a drug felony are allowed to go and roam free, or waste away or something. Like a 51th state of Puerto Rico, and all the tweakers, pot heads, crack heads, and such can just waste away or something. Maybe not Puerto Rico, but Guam perhaps? And their sentence will be to waste away until they die. No food for them (they must work for that) but all the cheap drugs they can smoke or stick on them. Like a hotel California...


It should be Colorado (squared state, cheaper to fence, saves the taxpayer's money). And you get 15 chances to clean up.
 
2013-04-15 03:20:26 PM
 
2013-04-15 03:26:42 PM

namatad: The assumption that usage would go up if drugs were legal is questionable at best.


Do you think it would go down? I think the people that want to do drugs will do drugs. I think people that don't want to do drugs won't do drugs. And I think there is a certain number of people in the middle who make their decision to use drugs based on how readily available they are.

namatad: How do you even measure an increase in usage when there is no real data today on current illegal usage?


You can't, really. Polls maybe. If everything was legal I doubt anyone would have a problem admitting in a poll that they use a legal drug. But how many people are currently willing to check, "I use crack" on a poll? Not many, I would imagine.

namatad: plus, when you talk about casual coke, pot or shroom usage, ...


My reply to you wasn't really about some guy casually smoking pot. Just that "legalize everything" is probably not the way to go since "everything" includes things like Black Tar Heroin and Bath Salts.
 
2013-04-15 03:29:18 PM

namatad: Treygreen13: namatad: /sigh - cue the "drugs are bad" tards .... like the war on drugs has been good for ANYONE other than drug lords?

So.. OTC PCP?

You're ok with that?

so yah ....
PCP, antivirals and antibiotics are probably not a good idea .....
that being said, would the "damage" from PCP users increase? is it really a big problem or a red-herring ...
but yah .... PCP is probably a no ....

alas, in the end, people who are going to abuse and use insane drugs are going to be able to get insane drugs and abuse them ....


Fact is even if you drop a ton of pcp heroin and meth in the streets with a sign saying come one come all.
its still only a certain kind of person thats going to use it.

you might get a few johnny come latleys but really thats just darwin in action.
should be able to buy drugs pretty much like you buy booze.
any of them. give em a scan card. Known trouble makers are banned. Everyone wins. Except tom the local smack dealer
 
2013-04-15 03:33:09 PM

monoski: jshine: Headline makes no sense; opium isn't' the exclusive province of the Taliban.

Still Obama's fault


That goes without saying, of course.
 
2013-04-15 03:45:13 PM

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Fact is even if you drop a ton of pcp heroin and meth in the streets with a sign saying come one come all.
its still only a certain kind of person thats going to use it.


I imagine you'd get several takers on "hey come try out some free meth and PCP with no legal repercussions" that wouldn't normally purchase PCP/Meth.

teenage mutant ninja rapist: you might get a few johnny come latleys but really thats just darwin in action.


My concern isn't with them. They can inject LSD directly into their brain stems until their heads pop off and float away, for all I care. I worry about what happens when someone decides to take some angel dust and then go drive around. Or the guy who takes meth to try it out and ends up ruining his life, his wife's life, and his children's lives.

teenage mutant ninja rapist: should be able to buy drugs pretty much like you buy booze.


I'm on board with this for marijuana. But not for heroin.

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Known trouble makers are banned. Everyone wins. Except tom the local smack dealer


Ah, yes. The known troublemakers, who will find out they can't have drugs and say "ok". In reality, that just means the troublemakers go back to Tom the local smack dealer. Now you've got the same problem (people having drugs that shouldn't have drugs) and you're running state-sponsored crack dens.
 
2013-04-15 04:34:28 PM
benzadrex is good.  meth is free
 
2013-04-15 04:59:19 PM

Treygreen13: namatad: The assumption that usage would go up if drugs were legal is questionable at best.

Do you think it would go down? I think the people that want to do drugs will do drugs. I think people that don't want to do drugs won't do drugs. And I think there is a certain number of people in the middle who make their decision to use drugs based on how readily available they are.

namatad: How do you even measure an increase in usage when there is no real data today on current illegal usage?

You can't, really. Polls maybe. If everything was legal I doubt anyone would have a problem admitting in a poll that they use a legal drug. But how many people are currently willing to check, "I use crack" on a poll? Not many, I would imagine.

namatad: plus, when you talk about casual coke, pot or shroom usage, ...

My reply to you wasn't really about some guy casually smoking pot. Just that "legalize everything" is probably not the way to go since "everything" includes things like Black Tar Heroin and Bath Salts.


1) yes the numbers would go up by a small amount (does anyone really think the usage of heroin would double or triple?)
but the numbers would also go down some amount, because people would be able to safely get treatment for an illness, rather than fear from committing a crime.

2) yah, stats on drugs, prostitution, illegal gambling, etc are estimates at best, which is still better than random numbers I guess

3) yes, bath salts and heroin, esp since heroin users are less likely to react like pcp users.
how many people used bath salts because they couldnt legally get something else?

and yah
GHB would probably be a much bigger problem than any of the other drugs ...... sigh
stupid bad people farking things up for everyone else
 
2013-04-15 05:00:20 PM

Warchild: I've been thinking of taking up heroin. This clinches it.


I'm not going to tell you to do it but there's a social stigma involved that means you may wish to keep it a secret if you do decide to imbibe. Use nasal ingestion or learn to shoot it but make sure you use clean rigs and practice safe booting techniques. It is, honestly, a hell of a drug and something that most people should experience at least once in their life. It is a euphoria that can't be matched even with fantastic feats of daring, height, speed, etc... It's strictly achievable with chemicals and is a really nice high.
 
2013-04-15 05:11:40 PM

Treygreen13: namatad: /sigh - cue the "drugs are bad" tards .... like the war on drugs has been good for ANYONE other than drug lords?

So.. OTC PCP?

You're ok with that?


Yes, you're not? If I want PCP I can get PCP. It being available at the store isn't going to make me more likely to want it. Legalize all drugs for those who have reached the age of majority. Penalize the hell out of those who give it to minors. Take the crime out of drugs and imagine how wonderful the planet could be with just that one step.
 
2013-04-15 05:15:39 PM

namatad: 1) yes the numbers would go up by a small amount (does anyone really think the usage of heroin would double or triple?)
but the numbers would also go down some amount, because people would be able to safely get treatment for an illness, rather than fear from committing a crime.


I think there would be a brief, terrifying period where people are trying whatever they felt like because it's "ok now" and shiat would get really, really scary for a while. Maybe in another country they could handle it better, but this is 'Murica. We can barely handle the McRib. Then the people who didn't get hopelessly addicted to their drugs would probably decide it wasn't for them. Then it would go back closer to normal. But you'd still have a constant supply of people turning 18, getting their drug license, and going out and seeing what it's like to try cocaine, or LSD, or meth. And some of them would become addicts, and some wouldn't. You've still got addicts, people taking dangerous drugs, and your entire population has PCP and Heroin available should they decide they want it.

I don't think people who are addicted to hard drugs would suddenly decide to get treatment because those drugs are legal. You could walk (right now) to a rehab and tell them you're addicted to heroin and they wouldn't tell you to get out. People who want help for their addictions *can* get it now.

namatad: 3) yes, bath salts and heroin, esp since heroin users are less likely to react like pcp users.
how many people used bath salts because they couldnt legally get something else?


Hard to say about the bath salts thing. I think people taking synthetic drugs were probably already taking their "natural" counterpart and wanted to find ways around limitations like availability and drug testing. But you also had a lot of people say "oh well if they're legal I'll go try some Spice and see what that's all about". And I know that happens for a fact - I have friends who went out and bought some just because of the notoriety and because they thought the government was going to lock it down again. The same for Four Loko, people went out and bought cases of that garbage because they wanted to get it before it became illegal.
 
2013-04-15 05:16:35 PM

UnspokenVoice: Legalize all drugs for those who have reached the age of majority


...so 18 year olds with PCP. Gotcha.

How about HGH?
 
2013-04-15 05:16:47 PM

Treygreen13: namatad: that being said, would the "damage" from PCP users increase? is it really a big problem or a red-herring ...

Probably, if you could go to Walgreens and buy some PCP.

I think the problem with "legalize everything" is that once you start thinking about it you start to remember why some of the stuff is illegal. Considering how terribly addicting and life-ruining Meth is, maybe it's a good thing that you can't stop by a grocery store and pick up some meth for funsies. And keep in mind that the population you're thinking of releasing *all the drugs* to can't even handle regulating their own  foodintake and need to be reminded that they shouldn't text while driving 70mph on the freeway. The kinds of people I worry about having unlimited access to drugs aren't the people here debating it, it's the cast of Buckwild shooting up some heroin and then deciding that they're going to go drive around for a while.


See my remark above. Anybody who wants to get drugs can get drugs. I have NEVER had an issue scoring drugs, it may take a few hours but it has never been a problem.
 
2013-04-15 05:20:22 PM

Treygreen13: UnspokenVoice: Legalize all drugs for those who have reached the age of majority

...so 18 year olds with PCP. Gotcha.

How about HGH?


Absolutely. They're going to get and do it regardless if they want. They may as well get it from a clean and legal source. They may as well not be committing a crime in the acquisition and possession phase. Anyone who wants drugs can find drugs. They're not hard to find and the people who sell them tend to look alike and be in the same areas in every single burb and city. The idea that legalization is going to make grandma turn into a raging meth addict is absurd. I can already GET drugs. I have plenty on hand right this minute.
 
2013-04-15 05:21:42 PM

UnspokenVoice: See my remark above. Anybody who wants to get drugs can get drugs. I have NEVER had an issue scoring drugs, it may take a few hours but it has never been a problem.


So tell us about the first time. How did you come to the decision to do PCP?
 
2013-04-15 05:34:15 PM

Treygreen13: UnspokenVoice: See my remark above. Anybody who wants to get drugs can get drugs. I have NEVER had an issue scoring drugs, it may take a few hours but it has never been a problem.

So tell us about the first time. How did you come to the decision to do PCP?


A buddy mentioned he had tried it out west, I asked a friend of a relative (his name is honestly and ironically "Angel") if he could get me some. It had sounded interesting, similar to mescaline so I really wanted to try it. I've only consumed it twice, it wasn't really for me, but once was in the woods and the second time was in an apartment where I watched a tapestry of a water fall seemingly leak real water for what seemed like days but was probably only around eight hours. Outside it was a new ball game, I was full of energy and loved playing with the trees.

Even if I had had a bad reaction I'd still be in favor of legalization. I don't expect to change your mind by the way. I just think you're short sighted and have been scared into your illogical position by the constant barrage from authoritarians. Drugs are cheap without all the criminal markup. Tax the hell out of 'em and use the money for something good. Keeping the money in our society is a huge first step.
 
2013-04-15 05:47:59 PM

UnspokenVoice: Treygreen13: UnspokenVoice: See my remark above. Anybody who wants to get drugs can get drugs. I have NEVER had an issue scoring drugs, it may take a few hours but it has never been a problem.

So tell us about the first time. How did you come to the decision to do PCP?

A buddy mentioned he had tried it out west, I asked a friend of a relative (his name is honestly and ironically "Angel") if he could get me some. It had sounded interesting, similar to mescaline so I really wanted to try it. I've only consumed it twice, it wasn't really for me, but once was in the woods and the second time was in an apartment where I watched a tapestry of a water fall seemingly leak real water for what seemed like days but was probably only around eight hours. Outside it was a new ball game, I was full of energy and loved playing with the trees.

Even if I had had a bad reaction I'd still be in favor of legalization. I don't expect to change your mind by the way. I just think you're short sighted and have been scared into your illogical position by the constant barrage from authoritarians. Drugs are cheap without all the criminal markup. Tax the hell out of 'em and use the money for something good. Keeping the money in our society is a huge first step.


I don't expect to change your mind either. And I understand why you might feel the way you do.

My concern isn't with one person who wants to take something and see what it's about, and sit in his room and watch the walls melt. It's *everyone*. We (humans in general) are a giant stupid population living our lives to excess with little concern for our surroundings. As I've stated upthread, it's been proven we can't trust our population with even the basic things like regulating our food intake, or texting while operating a vehicle at 70mph. The idea of someone at 18 (even me at 18) being able to decide if I should take psychotropic or addictive drugs from the gas station terrifies me.

When I walk into a Wal-Mart, I feel fear. Not because someone in there might be on drugs. I'm fairly certain somebody in Wal-Mart is on drugs. But because I know that all those bizarre people hanging out in Wal-Mart made all those decisions to get them to where they were. But they're there, running around in spongebob shorts spending their income on beer and cigarettes and sugary drinks and killing themselves with those poor decisions, and I think "what if these people could buy PCP?"
 
2013-04-15 06:00:10 PM
Y'all be posting in a retard shill 1984 thread.

/Taliban never banned opium. The Taliban encourages opium and taxes it. Ay yi yi.
 
2013-04-15 06:02:36 PM

Treygreen13: I don't expect to change your mind either. And I understand why you might feel the way you do.

My concern isn't with one person who wants to take something and see what it's about, and sit in his room and watch the walls melt. It's *everyone*. We (humans in general) are a giant stupid population living our lives to excess with little concern for our surroundings. As I've stated upthread, it's been proven we can't trust our population with even the basic things like regulating our food intake, or texting while operating a vehicle at 70mph. The idea of someone at 18 (even me at 18) being able to decide if I should take psychotropic or addictive drugs from the gas station terrifies me.

When I walk into a Wal-Mart, I feel fear. Not because someone in there might be on drugs. I'm fairly certain somebody in Wal-Mart is on drugs. But because I know that all those bizarre people hanging out in Wal-Mart made all those decisions to get them to where they were. But they're there, running around in spongebob shorts spending their income on beer and cigarettes and sugary drinks and killing themselves with those poor decisions, and I think "what if these people could buy PCP?"


I guess the gist of my point is they already can buy PCP. I *am* your average druggie IF they are in a position where they can afford their drugs. I'm strapped up with fentanyl and am happily shooting dilaudid every few hours. (I prefer my drugs come from someone with clean hands.) So, yeah, this is the view from the other side of the spectrum I suppose. If there's a drug - even rare ones, I've probably tried it. They're available right now, taking the crime out of it will most certainly solve some problems.
 
2013-04-15 06:20:17 PM

UnspokenVoice: Treygreen13: I don't expect to change your mind either. And I understand why you might feel the way you do.

My concern isn't with one person who wants to take something and see what it's about, and sit in his room and watch the walls melt. It's *everyone*. We (humans in general) are a giant stupid population living our lives to excess with little concern for our surroundings. As I've stated upthread, it's been proven we can't trust our population with even the basic things like regulating our food intake, or texting while operating a vehicle at 70mph. The idea of someone at 18 (even me at 18) being able to decide if I should take psychotropic or addictive drugs from the gas station terrifies me.

When I walk into a Wal-Mart, I feel fear. Not because someone in there might be on drugs. I'm fairly certain somebody in Wal-Mart is on drugs. But because I know that all those bizarre people hanging out in Wal-Mart made all those decisions to get them to where they were. But they're there, running around in spongebob shorts spending their income on beer and cigarettes and sugary drinks and killing themselves with those poor decisions, and I think "what if these people could buy PCP?"

I guess the gist of my point is they already can buy PCP. I *am* your average druggie IF they are in a position where they can afford their drugs. I'm strapped up with fentanyl and am happily shooting dilaudid every few hours. (I prefer my drugs come from someone with clean hands.) So, yeah, this is the view from the other side of the spectrum I suppose. If there's a drug - even rare ones, I've probably tried it. They're available right now, taking the crime out of it will most certainly solve some problems.


I agree that taking the crime out of it would probably solve problems. I just think that our society as a whole can't make the decision to use much of anything responsibly, and that the barrier between much of our society regularly using those drugs in an irresponsible way *is* that they are illegal, and that there is some fear that they will go to jail.

I think marijuana is a good example of my stance on the whole issue. I don't think marijuana is a harmful drug, and I don't think less of anyone I meet who smokes it. I have a lot of friends who smoke it on occasion and they're absolutely normal. Hell, some of 'em are smarter. If legalization came up for a vote for the country, I'd probably vote for it primarily because it isn't harmful but also so that I can stop hearing about it from my stoner friends.  But at the same time, if it remains illegal I won't exactly be upset. Since it's illegal,  nobody is sparking up on the barstool next to me, nobody's walking around smoking weed in my building. They're (usually) enjoying it at home in privacy. I'm not seeing advertisements for weed, I'm not dealing with stoned people all day because they can. And that's why I'm not marching around demanding for it to be legal. As it is right now it doesn't effect me on a daily basis. And I'm ok with that.
 
2013-04-15 06:24:33 PM
I thought we were there to kick Al Qaeda's ass in the Global War on TerrorismTM  Figures someone is trying to  convert it to the War on DrugsTM and maintain scrutiny free funding in perpetuity.
 
2013-04-15 06:40:30 PM
Lol subby is so naive ....such a good kid
 
2013-04-15 06:52:06 PM

Treygreen13: I agree that taking the crime out of it would probably solve problems. I just think that our society as a whole can't make the decision to use much of anything responsibly, and that the barrier between much of our society regularly using those drugs in an irresponsible way *is* that they are illegal, and that there is some fear that they will go to jail.

I think marijuana is a good example of my stance on the whole issue. I don't think marijuana is a harmful drug, and I don't think less of anyone I meet who smokes it. I have a lot of friends who smoke it on occasion and they're absolutely normal. Hell, some of 'em are smarter. If legalization came up for a vote for the country, I'd probably vote for it primarily because it isn't harmful but also so that I can stop hearing about it from my stoner friends. But at the same time, if it remains illegal I won't exactly be upset. Since it's illegal, nobody is sparking up on the barstool next to me, nobody's walking around smoking weed in my building. They're (usually) enjoying it at home in privacy. I'm not seeing advertisements for weed, I'm not dealing with stoned people all day because they can. And that's why I'm not marching around demanding for it to be legal. As it is right now it doesn't effect me on a daily basis. And I'm ok with that.


We, as a group of people, are idiots. I won't argue that. However, drugs are already available and I've never met a single person who's not done drugs for the sole reason that there were legal repercussions for it. We already have laws in place for bad behaviors while on drugs - driving while intoxicated, burglary, public disorder, etc...

I voted for gay marriage for the same reason actually. I'd go so far as to say that an adult choosing to ingest anything into their body is a far greater civil right than gay marriage. Yes, that includes things that will kill said person. Yes that includes things that will harm you. You, as a person, should have complete control over what you have in your body. (I also think we should be allowed to end our lives as well but that's a topic that overlaps with this one but really isn't the same.)

Anyhow, with the laws that cover bad behaviors there isn't need to criminalize things that cause bad behaviors. We frown on drinking and driving (and rightfully so, though I'm guilty I really haven't done so for about a year now simply because of a personal epiphany - I blew my BMW sideways into some trees and got away with it and didn't kill anyone but that was enough for me to stop) but we don't outlaw alcohol. Hell, drinking in public is even legal here. We've criminalized the bad behavior and that's enough.

I guess I'm guilty of being extreme in my views in that I almost always side on the side of personal freedom. I also tend to despise extremism so I'll work on my views and probably justify it as that this, in particular, isn't really extreme. I still, for instance, don't think that my personal freedoms allow me to harm another person, ever, in any way.

But, having literally tried most every single high-inducing drug (from across the globe) and most hallucinogenic drugs and quite a few depressants I truly can't think of a single drug I think should be illegal. Of course I'm biased, I'm a druggie. I'm the one guy who argued with the commercial about wanting to be a junkie when you grow up. I don't think that negates my logic however. Personal freedom is the greatest form of freedom we can have and we must accept the negatives that come with it. Nobody should be forcing you to put something into your body just as nobody should be prohibiting you from doing so. Bad behaviors are already criminalized.

I do understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately I don't understand the logic and I think your view (a very common one) is based on fear that's not even your own. Much like opinions on marijuana are changing, so too will the opinions for more. I hope... My body, my death, my life... So long as those don't harm another then the risks are greatly overwhelmed by the benefits of a free society.

/is old
//has thought this through and is content in these beliefs
/thinks more people should use drugs actually (should be used responsibly)
 
2013-04-15 11:22:50 PM
fark the opium.

where the hell is the hashish?  I haven't had any good Afghani hash in over 30 years, dammit.
 
2013-04-16 12:29:56 AM

AbbeySomeone: doglover: Gulper Eel: Fark's sake, long as we're in Afghanistan why not just buy up the damn opium crop ourselves? It actually does have use as a painkiller, after all.  Long as the farmers sell only to us, we're cool. If not, well...

Because drugs are bad. Unless they're amphetamines.

Yes, but don't let the doctors know that you drink wine or smoke pot on occasion; just let them stock you up with xanax, vicodan, flexoril and such. You must remain in their control.


Paranoid much?
 
2013-04-16 01:57:48 AM

Dinki: Does subby think the only opium growers in Afghanistan are Taliban?


And done in one!  Nicely, I might add.

Seriously, is there anyone still naive enough to think that the US is over there for any reason other than to claim all that sweet smack for ourselves?
 
2013-04-16 10:48:35 AM

ShadowKamui: namatad: legalize ALL drugs
make them OTC to anyone over 18
death for giving them to under 18, unless you are the parent

TADA
you put the black market out of business with one law.
TADA
no more drug warlords, no more taliban trying to stomp out poppies

/sigh - cue the "drugs are bad" tards .... like the war on drugs has been good for ANYONE other than drug lords?

Hell no
The last thing we need are the return of opium dens or legalized crack houses.

Weed and maybe ecstasy are one thing, opiates are life destroying if abused and should be used for painkillers only


Your medical education needs a bit of improvement.
Opium is used for many things in medical practice.
 
2013-04-16 10:49:43 AM

danno_to_infinity: fark the opium.

where the hell is the hashish?  I haven't had any good Afghani hash in over 30 years, dammit.


It is sold to a market that appreciates it.
In USA, not so much.
 
2013-04-16 10:53:25 AM

edmo: I thought we were there to kick Al Qaeda's ass in the Global War on TerrorismTM  Figures someone is trying to  convert it to the War on DrugsTM and maintain scrutiny free funding in perpetuity.


I am patiently waiting for the first Republican to blurt out "It's not actual War when we do it."
 
2013-04-16 08:31:48 PM

Gulper Eel: Fark's sake, long as we're in Afghanistan why not just buy up the damn opium crop ourselves? It actually does have use as a painkiller, after all.  Long as the farmers sell only to us, we're cool. If not, well...


How can you have a War on Drugs(tm) if no one brings the drugs?
 
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