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(Some Guy)   Why is it that so-called 'values voters' care more about gay marriage and evolution than protecting the weak and helping the poor?   (churchandstate.org.uk) divider line 132
    More: Interesting, Christian Fundamentalists, Islamic fundamentalism, culture wars, Ken Ham, biblical literalism, interpretation of the Bible, Return of Christ, taxpayer-funded  
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2656 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Apr 2013 at 11:08 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-15 11:36:09 AM  

TV's Vinnie: This also explains why the more wealthy are more likely to be religious. They want to wrap themselves up in a belief system that reinforces their status quo, where as those who struggle to survive are more likely to acknowledge that there is no god that cares about them.


It's the exact opposite of that. The better off and more educated you are, the less likely you are to be religious.
 
2013-04-15 11:36:32 AM  

Parthenogenetic: Via Infinito: As far as not helping the weak and poor, many of them believe in the prosperity doctrine. If you're poor, God wants it that way because you suck. If I have money, it's because God wants me to have it and I'm not about to give it to your unemployed welfare-abusing ass.

Jesus said "the poor will always be with you."

Think about what that means.

First of all, there will always be good-for-nothing moochers stealing from productive citizens.  Jesus knew this nearly 2000 years before Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.

Second, humans will never be able to eliminate poverty, because Jesus said so.  To try to eliminate poverty is not just futile, it is an act of human pride and defiance against God.  Poverty is a symptom of the deadly sin of sloth.  Welfare is also a sin, the result of the deadly sin of sloth, which causeth poverty, and envy, which causeth the poor to covet what their betters have earned.  Giving money to the poor only encourages them to mooch more.  To eliminate poverty, you need to eliminate the sin that causes poverty, and only Jesus can do that.

In Heaven, there is no Medicare, no Medicaid, no Social Security, no welfare, no food stamps, no Section 8 Housing, and no public transportation.  There is no affirmative action (unneeded, because there are no minorities in Heaven), no unions, and no unemployment insurance.  There are no job-killing OSHA, EPA, FDA, or Department of Labor to burden the job creators.  God only asks for a flat tax of 10 percent, as opposed to the 50% tax rate demanded by 0bama.  Why does 0bama need five times what God asks for?  Because he thinks he's five times better than God?


2/10
Way over the top. Subtlety is the best way to troll.
 
2013-04-15 11:37:18 AM  

UberDave: Because the poor are nothing more than low-down, double-dealing, backstabbing, larcenous perverted worms!!  Hanging's too good for them!  Burning's too good for them!  They should be torn into little bitsy pieces and buried alive!!!


Don't worry, I've got an angle.
 
2013-04-15 11:38:01 AM  
Because they spend less time reading the Bible than they do thumping it?

I_Am_Weasel: In that order?


Traditionally, yes.
 
2013-04-15 11:39:20 AM  
Short answer: because right-wing ideology REQUIRES an "us"-vs-"them" narrative.

Sad as it is, "let's all help the less fortunate like Jesus wanted" doesn't get people to the polls. "[Insert hated group here] are destroying the country and ruining humanity forever!!! Now forward this email to everyone you know and remember not to remove any of the 'FW:'s in the subject line!" does.

The American left may have very real problems, but they haven't painted themselves into a cultural and ideological corner like the American right has. They have quite literally staked out a very combative viewpoint where, on many major issues of the day (the environment, science and education, women's and minorities' rights, etc.), it's pretty much them against the entire rest of the civilized world. Which, of course, they just integrate into their concocted fantasies of perpetual victimhood even though they represent one of the most politically powerful and entitled demographics on Earth.

A combative, uncharitable attitude and outlook is the inevitable result.  And this is something I hear a more and more from several generations of people in my own family and in those of friends and acquaintances.  I hear it from those in their teens, those in their 20's and 30's, and even from folks in their 40's and 50's: "When did [usually older, very conservative family member] get so angry about everything? All they do is glue themselves to cable news and grumble and rant about politics now. I miss being able to talk with them!"

I have seriously lost count of how may times I've heard some variation of that, now.  I can't imagine that the (very typically southern and midwestern) families I have experience with are somehow outliers in this.  And it's really sad...
 
2013-04-15 11:40:32 AM  

Epoch_Zero: Values Voters:
[api.ning.com image 500x443]

/that woman's stupid smile
//'we're doing the lord's work, ya'll!"
///diaf


A local church rebuilt a kids' home and school in Haiti, and funded it each year since the big earthquake.  What have you done for Haiti?  There is a mission trip there twice a year.  One of the members paid for a doctor to come to his office in the US then gave him eye surgery for free so that this doctor could continue to practice medicine for his community.  They might even have thrown in a bible or two.

Sure, its fun saying that Christian missionaries are there to exploit, but you might need to get your own hands a bit dirty before you can feel too superior.
 
2013-04-15 11:40:43 AM  
Prosperity Gospel is the Anti-Christ
anyone who preaches it is a false prophet.
 
2013-04-15 11:41:08 AM  
FTFAThe infection is that of anti-intellectualism, a steadfast refusal to acknowledge that one's worldview is mutable, a worldview in which facts are only facts if they fit that worldview, and that anyone who disagrees with a Christian fundamentalist worldview is an "enemy" of God.

This is why I can't support the GOP......these people scare me.
 
2013-04-15 11:41:28 AM  
I have no values, and, according to my wife, have no value.
 
2013-04-15 11:43:11 AM  
c0014449.r32.cf1.rackcdn.com
 
2013-04-15 11:43:33 AM  

I_C_Weener: Epoch_Zero: Values Voters:
[api.ning.com image 500x443]

/that woman's stupid smile
//'we're doing the lord's work, ya'll!"
///diaf

A local church rebuilt a kids' home and school in Haiti, and funded it each year since the big earthquake.  What have you done for Haiti?  There is a mission trip there twice a year.  One of the members paid for a doctor to come to his office in the US then gave him eye surgery for free so that this doctor could continue to practice medicine for his community.  They might even have thrown in a bible or two.

Sure, its fun saying that Christian missionaries are there to exploit, but you might need to get your own hands a bit dirty before you can feel too superior.


Are you under the impression that only Christian charities support those in need in Haiti?
 
2013-04-15 11:44:18 AM  
Because "values voters" are assholes.

A hearty THIS!! to everyone who called out prosperity theology.  That's a big part of the reason "values voters" are assholes.
 
2013-04-15 11:44:24 AM  

I_C_Weener: What have you done for Haiti?


Donated to the Red Cross Haiti fund. I didn't even try to convince people trying to put their country back together to change religion or pity them enough, or think so lowly of them that I would go there, flaunting my opulent lifestyle among their poverty, and personally give out things that I deem they need to make their lives better according to my personal views.
 
2013-04-15 11:46:12 AM  
Because they've had more success at keeping down the gays and fighting evolution?
Their strategies for fighting poverty and protecting the weak absolutely suck, and they know it.

Doing good deeds and helping others has given them almost no tangible results to validate their beliefs to others.
But good bogeymen can be just as intangible and generally tend to be more effective.

Tell a person to do X and good things will come to them and others and they'll want to test that theory. And if it doesn't work out for them, you're shown to be full of shiat.
Tell a person that Y is going to harm them, and they'll be more inclined to follow your advice without testing.

Pretty soon you're protecting them from lots of scary threats and fighting the good fight for them. And surely they'd be thankful enough to give you some monetary support...
 
2013-04-15 11:47:05 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: I_C_Weener: Epoch_Zero: Values Voters:
[api.ning.com image 500x443]

/that woman's stupid smile
//'we're doing the lord's work, ya'll!"
///diaf

A local church rebuilt a kids' home and school in Haiti, and funded it each year since the big earthquake.  What have you done for Haiti?  There is a mission trip there twice a year.  One of the members paid for a doctor to come to his office in the US then gave him eye surgery for free so that this doctor could continue to practice medicine for his community.  They might even have thrown in a bible or two.

Sure, its fun saying that Christian missionaries are there to exploit, but you might need to get your own hands a bit dirty before you can feel too superior.

Are you under the impression that only Christian charities support those in need in Haiti?


I'm under the impression that Christian charities get grief for it when other's don't at the same rate.
 
2013-04-15 11:48:11 AM  
Because they aren't really Christian.
 
2013-04-15 11:48:22 AM  

Epoch_Zero: I_C_Weener: What have you done for Haiti?

Donated to the Red Cross Haiti fund. I didn't even try to convince people trying to put their country back together to change religion or pity them enough, or think so lowly of them that I would go there, flaunting my opulent lifestyle among their poverty, and personally give out things that I deem they need to make their lives better according to my personal views.


So, a one time donation gives you the ability to critique what some churches are doing quarterly.  A once and forget it donation.  Good for you.  They probably don't need any more help on an ongoing basis.

I salute you and your ability to complain about those who are willing to continue helping.
 
2013-04-15 11:49:29 AM  

I_C_Weener: Philip Francis Queeg: I_C_Weener: Epoch_Zero: Values Voters:
[api.ning.com image 500x443]

/that woman's stupid smile
//'we're doing the lord's work, ya'll!"
///diaf

A local church rebuilt a kids' home and school in Haiti, and funded it each year since the big earthquake.  What have you done for Haiti?  There is a mission trip there twice a year.  One of the members paid for a doctor to come to his office in the US then gave him eye surgery for free so that this doctor could continue to practice medicine for his community.  They might even have thrown in a bible or two.

Sure, its fun saying that Christian missionaries are there to exploit, but you might need to get your own hands a bit dirty before you can feel too superior.

Are you under the impression that only Christian charities support those in need in Haiti?

I'm under the impression that Christian charities get grief for it when other's don't at the same rate.


They get grief for their proselytizing. The other charities don't get grief for that because they don't farking do it.
 
2013-04-15 11:49:35 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: prosperity theology


Prosperity theology smells like bullshiat.
 
2013-04-15 11:49:50 AM  

I_C_Weener: Philip Francis Queeg: I_C_Weener: Epoch_Zero: Values Voters:
[api.ning.com image 500x443]

/that woman's stupid smile
//'we're doing the lord's work, ya'll!"
///diaf

A local church rebuilt a kids' home and school in Haiti, and funded it each year since the big earthquake.  What have you done for Haiti?  There is a mission trip there twice a year.  One of the members paid for a doctor to come to his office in the US then gave him eye surgery for free so that this doctor could continue to practice medicine for his community.  They might even have thrown in a bible or two.

Sure, its fun saying that Christian missionaries are there to exploit, but you might need to get your own hands a bit dirty before you can feel too superior.

Are you under the impression that only Christian charities support those in need in Haiti?

I'm under the impression that Christian charities get grief for it when other's don't at the same rate.


Ah, yes, the "religious people are more charitable" argument.
 
2013-04-15 11:51:04 AM  
Christian fundamentalists have never been in charge, so there must be some other reason our country is going into the Dark Ages. But it's fun to ridicule them, so carry on.
 
2013-04-15 11:52:21 AM  

I_C_Weener: that Christian charities get grief for it


They are so persecuted. The poor christian charities.
 
2013-04-15 11:53:16 AM  

Via Infinito: Parthenogenetic: Via Infinito: As far as not helping the weak and poor, many of them believe in the prosperity doctrine. If you're poor, God wants it that way because you suck. If I have money, it's because God wants me to have it and I'm not about to give it to your unemployed welfare-abusing ass.

Jesus said "the poor will always be with you."

Think about what that means.

First of all, there will always be good-for-nothing moochers stealing from productive citizens.  Jesus knew this nearly 2000 years before Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.

Second, humans will never be able to eliminate poverty, because Jesus said so.  To try to eliminate poverty is not just futile, it is an act of human pride and defiance against God.  Poverty is a symptom of the deadly sin of sloth.  Welfare is also a sin, the result of the deadly sin of sloth, which causeth poverty, and envy, which causeth the poor to covet what their betters have earned.  Giving money to the poor only encourages them to mooch more.  To eliminate poverty, you need to eliminate the sin that causes poverty, and only Jesus can do that.

In Heaven, there is no Medicare, no Medicaid, no Social Security, no welfare, no food stamps, no Section 8 Housing, and no public transportation.  There is no affirmative action (unneeded, because there are no minorities in Heaven), no unions, and no unemployment insurance.  There are no job-killing OSHA, EPA, FDA, or Department of Labor to burden the job creators.  God only asks for a flat tax of 10 percent, as opposed to the 50% tax rate demanded by 0bama.  Why does 0bama need five times what God asks for?  Because he thinks he's five times better than God?

2/10
Way over the top. Subtlety is the best way to troll.


I think that wasn't trolling so much as satire.
 
2013-04-15 11:53:28 AM  

oryx: Christian fundamentalists have never been in charge, so there must be some other reason our country is going into the Dark Ages. But it's fun to ridicule them, so carry on.


It's the gays, right?
 
2013-04-15 11:54:07 AM  
I_C_Weener:

A local church rebuilt a kids' home and school in Haiti, and funded it each year since the big earthquake.  What have you done for Haiti?  There is a mission trip there twice a year.  One of the members paid for a doctor to come to his office in the US then gave him eye surgery for free so that this doctor could continue to practice medicine for his community.  They might even have thrown in a bible or two.

Sure, its fun saying that Christian missionaries are there to exploit, but you might need to get your own hands a bit dirty before you can feel too superior.


What does any of that have to do with TFA?
 
2013-04-15 11:54:14 AM  

oryx: Christian fundamentalists have never been in charge, so there must be some other reason our country is going into the Dark Ages. But it's fun to ridicule them, so carry on.


At the state level they have a lot of control. Thankfully their national control is limited to the likes of Michele Bachmann and Steve King.
 
2013-04-15 11:54:14 AM  

I_C_Weener: I'm under the impression that Christian charities get grief for it when other's don't at the same rate.


Funny, I have never heard anyone complain about Christian charities donating food or water, or rebuilding homes, or donating medical help to those in need.

I have, however, heard people complaining about Christian charities requiring people to pray before receiving this help, and I've heard complaining about Christian "charities" handing out Bibles instead of food and water.  Almost as if people aren't giving Christinan charities grief about their actual charitable actions, but the pompous and self-righteous bullshiat that often comes along with it.
 
2013-04-15 11:54:51 AM  

Kibbler: I don't know.  People are strange.  Values turn into dogmas, dogmas turn into policies, and bureaucrats use policies to get what they want.



Women seem wicked. Streets are uneven.
 
2013-04-15 11:54:54 AM  
"He knew about concerned citizens. Wherever they were, they all spoke the same private language, where 'traditional values' meant 'hang someone'." -- Terry Pratchett
 
2013-04-15 11:55:19 AM  

oryx: Christian fundamentalists have never been in charge, so there must be some other reason our country is going into the Dark Ages. But it's fun to ridicule them, so carry on.


they aren't in charge. but they are useful idiots to those who are in charge. namely the richest corporations.
 
2013-04-15 11:57:44 AM  

Shrugging Atlas: Hey, they got bootstraps like everyone else.  Assuming they haven't pawned them for money to buy food drugs.


Pay attention.
 
2013-04-15 11:59:38 AM  

NeverDrunk23: coeyagi: Being gay and believing in Science makes you morally poor (or something), so they're just attacking the root cause.

Gay science?


Plastic tubes and pots and pans
Bits and pieces and the
Magic from the hand
We're makin' gay science
Things I've never seen before
Behind bolted doors
Talent and imagination
Gay science
Not what teacher said to do
Makin' dreams come true
Living tissue, warm flesh
Gay science
 
2013-04-15 12:02:07 PM  

I_C_Weener: Epoch_Zero: I_C_Weener: What have you done for Haiti?

Donated to the Red Cross Haiti fund. I didn't even try to convince people trying to put their country back together to change religion or pity them enough, or think so lowly of them that I would go there, flaunting my opulent lifestyle among their poverty, and personally give out things that I deem they need to make their lives better according to my personal views.

So, a one time donation gives you the ability to critique what some churches are doing quarterly.  A once and forget it donation.  Good for you.  They probably don't need any more help on an ongoing basis.

I salute you and your ability to complain about those who are willing to continue helping.


biatch, troll harder. I do what I can and don't expect anything in return.
 
2013-04-15 12:03:33 PM  

dennysgod: [c0014449.r32.cf1.rackcdn.com image 600x450]


That's a good Goldwater quote, didn't realize he created a Beast he could himself not control with the Southern Strategy.

The worse thing about getting religion into politics is the presumption that you're group is good and your opponents are evil.
Since evil cannot be compromised with, any concession to evil is a loss... that's how you have the deadlock in Congress today.
 
2013-04-15 12:04:44 PM  

NeverDrunk23: coeyagi: Being gay and believing in Science makes you morally poor (or something), so they're just attacking the root cause.

Gay science?


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

"Fröhliche Wissenschaft," if you please.
 
2013-04-15 12:06:31 PM  
I'd say it was a bad day when Dominionism took hold of American Protestantism, but that would ignore the centuries of history that had churches of all stripes promoting their own political-economic vision.

So it's still bad in the here and now, but it has also been that bad (and worse) throughout the Church's history.

// can I claim indulgence-purchases as a tax-writeoff?
 
2013-04-15 12:06:31 PM  
"Value voters" are poorly named.
 
2013-04-15 12:12:40 PM  

Surool: "Value voters" are poorly named.


Au contraire.

They provide a TON of value for Corporate America - they work the lowest-end jobs (which likely provide either some of the best ROI*, or the raw materials used to build other shiat, like corn or auto parts) and are the voting base.

*because you don't realize how much the janitorial/custodial staff does until they stop doing it for a week. I don't mean "cash" so much as intangibles.
 
2013-04-15 12:12:45 PM  

I_C_Weener: Epoch_Zero: I_C_Weener: What have you done for Haiti?

Donated to the Red Cross Haiti fund. I didn't even try to convince people trying to put their country back together to change religion or pity them enough, or think so lowly of them that I would go there, flaunting my opulent lifestyle among their poverty, and personally give out things that I deem they need to make their lives better according to my personal views.

So, a one time donation gives you the ability to critique what some churches are doing quarterly.  A once and forget it donation.  Good for you.  They probably don't need any more help on an ongoing basis.

I salute you and your ability to complain about those who are willing to continue helping.


there are some missionaries that do good work. most of them I've have a displeasure to know are little more than moochers who live on the charity of others ,some quite well, and do very little to justify their income. one I visited in Guatemala had a huge ranch, a motorhome and everything paid for by these churches who supported him. He wasn't concerned with feeding the poor or the physical health of those in his area. He was only concerned with getting them "saved" so he could count them in his little newsletter he'd send back to his patrons. Oh sure they'd have a meal or two and take pics. they'd give the kids books that were provided by the churches to give them. and take pics of those. but the majority of their time was sipping iced tea and watching satellite tv on their ranch. they pulled in over 20k a month in contributions. and probably paid out 5k or so for their employees who took care of the ranch. They had a racket going similar to that of Don Imus.
 
2013-04-15 12:15:14 PM  

FeedTheCollapse: Via Infinito: Parthenogenetic: Via Infinito: As far as not helping the weak and poor, many of them believe in the prosperity doctrine. If you're poor, God wants it that way because you suck. If I have money, it's because God wants me to have it and I'm not about to give it to your unemployed welfare-abusing ass.

Jesus said "the poor will always be with you."

Think about what that means.

First of all, there will always be good-for-nothing moochers stealing from productive citizens.  Jesus knew this nearly 2000 years before Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.

Second, humans will never be able to eliminate poverty, because Jesus said so.  To try to eliminate poverty is not just futile, it is an act of human pride and defiance against God.  Poverty is a symptom of the deadly sin of sloth.  Welfare is also a sin, the result of the deadly sin of sloth, which causeth poverty, and envy, which causeth the poor to covet what their betters have earned.  Giving money to the poor only encourages them to mooch more.  To eliminate poverty, you need to eliminate the sin that causes poverty, and only Jesus can do that.

In Heaven, there is no Medicare, no Medicaid, no Social Security, no welfare, no food stamps, no Section 8 Housing, and no public transportation.  There is no affirmative action (unneeded, because there are no minorities in Heaven), no unions, and no unemployment insurance.  There are no job-killing OSHA, EPA, FDA, or Department of Labor to burden the job creators.  God only asks for a flat tax of 10 percent, as opposed to the 50% tax rate demanded by 0bama.  Why does 0bama need five times what God asks for?  Because he thinks he's five times better than God?

2/10
Way over the top. Subtlety is the best way to troll.

I think that wasn't trolling so much as satire.


Satire might be the wrong word, because it's factual.

My family is fundamentalist Baptist.  I am not.  That is the kind of crap you will hear in those circles.  ("God only gets 10%.  Why does the government think they deserve more?")
 
2013-04-15 12:15:35 PM  
This is a behavioral opposition between compassionate values and disaster values.

In relatively good times a society functions best when everybody helps each other and life is better than a zero sum game.

In very bad times (famines, attacks by Attila the Hun, etc.) it is every family for itself and helping outsiders can hurt a family to the extent that its genes won't be passed on.

Fundamentalists tend to favor disaster values though they are supposed to be somewhat compassionate towards members of their in-group. However if someone in their group really needs help they may decided that he is flawed (e.g. lazy, God has cursed him, he violated group rules) and rather than being helped gets punished, maybe even kicked out of the group or killed.

As a different example, traditional Chinese are very family centered (may because of famines) and it was almost inconceivable to help an outsider that they didn't have any business ties with (such as a lost child). If such an outsider was helped it created obligations as if the outsider was adopted into the family.
 
2013-04-15 12:23:25 PM  

Parthenogenetic: My family is fundamentalist Baptist.  I am not.  That is the kind of crap you will hear in those circles.  ("God only gets 10%.  Why does the government think they deserve more?")


I'm in the same boat. I feel for you. Do you go all Poe's Law on them at family reunions or just sit quietly hoping they won't notice that you're not joining in on the gay/Obama/liberal bashing?
 
2013-04-15 12:23:31 PM  

Parthenogenetic: FeedTheCollapse: Via Infinito: Parthenogenetic: Via Infinito:

Satire might be the wrong word, because it's factual.

My family is fundamentalist Baptist.  I am not.  That is the kind of crap you will hear in those circles.  ("God only gets  10%. Why does the government they they deserve more?")


You are 100% correct, I too was raised in a fundamentalist Southern Baptist family and I heard all those ridiculous statements on a regular basis. Its easy to write it off as satire or even trolling, but be aware that there ARE people out there that honestly believe these things are true. The pastor of the church I attended growing up used to say that 10% remark on a regular basis from behind the pulpit. Christians are REALLY into the whole "belief in a just world" fallacy because it allows them to justify living selfish, judgmental lives and still feel good about the rewards they are sure to receive in heaven. Because good things only happen to good people and bad things happen because you're a bad person who has angered God.
 
2013-04-15 12:25:33 PM  
If there was ever a moment in which I agreed wholeheartedly with the Insane Clown Posse, it's this moment.

HairBolus: This is a behavioral opposition between compassionate values and disaster values.


And, this. There's a reason we're seeing a rise in the "doomsday prepper"/"survivalist" mentality - it ties into the "disaster values" discussion.
 
2013-04-15 12:29:18 PM  

Teufelaffe: UberDave: Because the poor are nothing more than low-down, double-dealing, backstabbing, larcenous perverted worms!!  Hanging's too good for them!  Burning's too good for them!  They should be torn into little bitsy pieces and buried alive!!!

Don't worry, I've got an angle.


Calling Hannover Fist!
 
2013-04-15 12:30:58 PM  
That hasn't been my observation out here in the real world.

I do a dozen or so hours a month at 2 different food banks, nary a lefty in the lot of volunteers, I am probably the only heathen around. I have met some real decent people, are they bible thumpers?....absolutely, but at least they walk the walk.
 
2013-04-15 12:31:29 PM  

I_C_Weener: Epoch_Zero: I_C_Weener: What have you done for Haiti?

Donated to the Red Cross Haiti fund. I didn't even try to convince people trying to put their country back together to change religion or pity them enough, or think so lowly of them that I would go there, flaunting my opulent lifestyle among their poverty, and personally give out things that I deem they need to make their lives better according to my personal views.

So, a one time donation gives you the ability to critique what some churches are doing quarterly.  A once and forget it donation.  Good for you.  They probably don't need any more help on an ongoing basis.

I salute you and your ability to complain about those who are willing to continue helping.


A single can of food is worth more than a thousand Bibles.
 
2013-04-15 12:33:55 PM  

Tailgunner Joe: That hasn't been my observation out here in the real world.


Personal anecdotes are the best kind of evidence.
 
2013-04-15 12:41:44 PM  

Via Infinito: Fundies are fearful people. They worry about the wrath of God and going to Hell a LOT. They think that by tolerating sin (in particular, the icky gays and the destruction of unborn babies) they are committing atrocities themselves that they'll have to answer for in the afterlife. Their fear keeps them from being able to look at the issues objectively. "Sorry Venkman, I'm terrified beyond the capacity for rational thought."


As far as not helping the weak and poor, many of them believe in the prosperity doctrine. If you're poor, God wants it that way because you suck. If I have money, it's because God wants me to have it and I'm not about to give it to your unemployed welfare-abusing ass.


Yup, pretty much.

It's a bit of genious work on the part of their religious leaders.  Who doesn't want to hear that they are in fact not being greedy, selfish assholes and instead are being rewarded by Jesus for being good Christians?

I don't have to feel bad about driving an Escalade and sticking a Jesus fish on the back while there are kids out there starving!
 
2013-04-15 12:50:51 PM  

Tailgunner Joe: I do a dozen or so hours a month at 2 different food banks, nary a lefty in the lot of volunteers, I am probably the only heathen around. I have met some real decent people, are they bible thumpers?....absolutely, but at least they walk the walk.


It all depends on which charity you're working at. Who sponsors this food bank?  Is it a religious organization?  Even if it's not, food banks are a big staple with church outreach organizations, so the fact that you see a lot of churchgoing people at them isn't surprising.

You take other high-profile charities like Doctors Without Borders, the groups organizations like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation work with, etc. that don't have historically close ties with church organizations in the US and you see a very different background in volunteers, or at least more diversity in backgrounds.

But this whole fight of who's more "generous" then whom I think is belittling and counterproductive. Plus, there's no real way to measure it.  Suffice to say that there are good-hearted people of just about any persuasion, and they all have their priorities and their pet projects, which is a good thing.  We don't want all charitable giving focused on a single area or even a single set of areas.

And then there's the point that in much of the world, Christian charities are seen as leftist in nature within their societies!  For example, the Catholic church in South America has a lot of experience with this; in agitating for rights for the poor, for workers, and on behalf of various underclasses. They're heavily involved in labor movements, suffrage movements, etc. You just don't see church organizations in the US doing that sort of thing, for a variety of reasons. And a lot of it has to do with how politicized many of the national religious organizations in the US have become and both their historical and current political alliances with the devoutly capitalist American right wing.

I think the greater point within the context of this particular thread is the worrying trend of Christian congregations in this country becoming less and less focused on caring for the weak and the needy and more and more focused on wedge-issue politics and becoming obsessed with evangelizing not the teachings of Christ, but the teachings of the Chicago school and fundamentalist capitalist ideology. And then there's some of the megachurches which just do away with pretense and operate basically as for-profit enterprises, complete with franchises, HR departments, and lawyers up the wazoo.
 
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