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(Guardian)   Nothing to see here. Just Pope Francis starting a revolution with "most important step in the history of the church for the past 10 centuries"   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 140
    More: Spiffy, Pope Francis, Vatican II, transition to democracy, tegucigalpa, Kinshasa, judicial panel, pope  
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26278 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Apr 2013 at 2:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-15 08:22:54 AM  
Meh, Religion...the man made contest to see who has the best imaginary friend.

Whatever, as long as it keeps them occupied so they're not sodomizing young boys any more, I guess it's a good thing.
 
2013-04-15 08:23:40 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Lsherm: As a Catholic, I welcome this - primarily because it will eventually allow for some changes.

While brantgoose can't possibly understand why this is a big deal, it's a first step towards the democratization of the church on a worldwide level.  For a standing Pope to have an "advisory committee" is a huge deal.  The Roman Curia has held power, almost without interruption, for 2000 years.  It's like a bad DMV you can't get rid of.

Gratuitous insults to brntgoose aside, I hear you.  This is indeed, as Joe Biden would put it, A Big Farking Deal.  I don't see reform happening as quickly or as widely as you seem to, but it's definitely a first step to something more.  What that something may be, I'm not particularly optinmistic about.  I'll get optimistic when I see him taking real, tangible, outward-facing, results-orients steps toward reform.

Sadly, I think any attempt at real reform at this stage will result in another schism, the like of which also hasn't been seen for 1,000 years.  The Sedevacantists are real and they're gaining traction in the USA already.  There are what I would call "fundamentalist" Catholic factions all over.  I can see a definite split happening over reform.  I can also see a split happening if it doesn't happen, though.

Francis inherited a Church in crisis.  I have serious doubts that it can be saved at the point.


We should be so lucky.
 
2013-04-15 08:31:28 AM  
Sorry, another meh item today.  I took the off ramp a long time ago and once you're out of the Reality Distortion Field you realize, it doesn't matter.
 
2013-04-15 08:46:10 AM  

computerguyUT: Whatever, as long as it keeps them occupied so they're not sodomizing young boys any more


They're not sodomizing young boys any less
 
2013-04-15 08:55:32 AM  
Wow, subby really knows how to oversell this move. However, good on the Pope for making this move. He obviously knows what he is doing from his past job experiences.
 
2013-04-15 09:18:11 AM  

ModernLuddite: Some people play D&D, some people are into baseball, some people go to church.


I play D&D AND go to church. What now?
 
2013-04-15 09:20:55 AM  
If that's the most revolutionary thing they've done in 10 centuries, no wonder the institution is shiat. Too bad they represent 17% of the world population and have remained stable at that rate since 1950
 
2013-04-15 09:37:03 AM  
An advisory panel?  Meh.  Wake me when it's a blue ribbon committee.
 
2013-04-15 09:37:50 AM  

CmndrFish: RexTalionis: brantgoose: He's going to drag the Church kicking and screaming into the Enlightenment?

Not for anything, but among the Christian denominations out there, the Roman Catholic Church is probably one of the most accepting of the principles of science and mathematics out there, especially compared to their Protestant and evangelical brethren. The Vatican has endorsed evolution to a higher degree than many other Christian denominations, including the ones who literally believe that the Earth is 6000 years old. The Vatican also has an official astronomer and observatory, plus the Pontifical Academy of Sciences uses the world's leading scientists to advise the Pope in matters of science.

The Church has changed a little since the trial of Galileo and it'd take a fool not to see that.

/Not a Catholic

The Catholic church is, no doubt, more accepting of scientific progress than most give it credit for.  Probably because that part of the message always gets drowned out by the loud anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage.  Definitely better than the Evangelicals that now dominate Protestantism.

But I feel like you're forgetting that there are still over 25 million Mainline Protestants in this country (United Methodist, Presbyterian, United Church of Christ, etc.) that are easily ahead of Catholicism on science, and they currently control the Presidency. :P


Interestingly enough, the Pew Forum did a poll on evolution in 2007 by religious group.

51% of mainline Protestants believe in evolution is the best explanation of the origin of species in the US.

58% of Catholics do.

Your assertion is not necessarily supported by the data.

Source: http://www.pewforum.org/Science-and-Bioethics/Religious-Differences-o n -the-Question-of-Evolution.aspx
 
2013-04-15 09:51:31 AM  

rynthetyn: iheartscotch: scalpod: iheartscotch: Is this the part where we sing a song about TRADITION, TRADITION, TRADITION, TRRRAAAADITION!!!!

/ for everyone who ever says, "The Vatican should sell stuff to feed the poor"; I have news for you. You are an Idiot. The art world wouldn't stand for it and neither would the Catholics of the world.

// besides, the church's wealth isn't in gold; it's in property. The church is the pretty much the largest owner of art in the world.

Napolean tried his best to take them down a few notches.

Napoleon liked the smell of his own farts; the short bastard. All the artwork at versailles and the louvre absolutely pales in comparison to the church's collection.

Tens of thousands of marble statues, at the very least billions in paintings, hundreds of priceless freezes and frescos and hundreds of acres of prime real estate; just in Rome.

/ the problem is; the art world would throw a fit if the church sold 1 master work. And the world's chatholics won't let the church sell just about any of it.

If they started selling off their works, wouldn't that end up messing with the prices in the global art market?


Probably. There's only so many people who could afford to buy stuff at the world's most expensive garage sale.

Some of the works just can't be appraised because of historical significance or the artist was one of the greatest ever.

/ they'd probably end up selling stuff too cheaply. Even so, it would take decades and probably end up crippling the art world.
 
2013-04-15 09:55:17 AM  

Ping_Me: ModernLuddite: Some people play D&D, some people are into baseball, some people go to church.

I play D&D AND go to church. What now?


Roll a cleric?
 
2013-04-15 09:57:30 AM  

Lsherm: As a Catholic, I welcome this - primarily because it will eventually allow for some changes.

While brantgoose can't possibly understand why this is a big deal, it's a first step towards the democratization of the church on a worldwide level.  For a standing Pope to have an "advisory committee" is a huge deal.  The Roman Curia has held power, almost without interruption, for 2000 years.  It's like a bad DMV you can't get rid of.


That would be a nice outcome.  My bet is on a second, parallel bureaucracy instead, that will be well-intentioned at first, but will fall prey within a generation to the same iron law of all large institutions:

The good people doing the good work won't have time to run things, leaving it up to the self-serving scumbags, as usual.

I'd like to be wrong, mind you.  (I'd also like Islam to reform itself and stop with all the oppression and suicide bombing, while we're wishing for things.)

We're seeing the same institutional tapeworms at many US academic institutions:  they're in financial trouble due to decades of mismanagement by increasingly bloated administrative staffs.  Everyone likes to blame "lazy tenured professors", but that's not the variable that has changed over the last few decades.
 
2013-04-15 10:03:12 AM  

RexTalionis: 51% of mainline Protestants believe in evolution is the best explanation of the origin of species in the US.

58% of Catholics do.


Odd. According to a Gallup poll:

Forty-six percent (ofAmericans) said they believe God created human beings in their current form over the past 10,000 years.

Thirty-two percent said human beings develop over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided the process.

It was only 15 percent of those polled who said they believed man developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but not by the hand of God. Of this 15 percent, these people were found among people who seldom or never go to church and people who attended post-graduate school.

So you are saying that Catholics are more likely to believe in evolution than the average American?
 
2013-04-15 10:10:25 AM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Will there still be cake?


[nsfw language]   This day can't get any worse.  [nsfw language]
 
2013-04-15 10:16:02 AM  

RexTalionis: CmndrFish: RexTalionis: brantgoose: He's going to drag the Church kicking and screaming into the Enlightenment?

Not for anything, but among the Christian denominations out there, the Roman Catholic Church is probably one of the most accepting of the principles of science and mathematics out there, especially compared to their Protestant and evangelical brethren. The Vatican has endorsed evolution to a higher degree than many other Christian denominations, including the ones who literally believe that the Earth is 6000 years old. The Vatican also has an official astronomer and observatory, plus the Pontifical Academy of Sciences uses the world's leading scientists to advise the Pope in matters of science.

The Church has changed a little since the trial of Galileo and it'd take a fool not to see that.

/Not a Catholic

The Catholic church is, no doubt, more accepting of scientific progress than most give it credit for.  Probably because that part of the message always gets drowned out by the loud anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage.  Definitely better than the Evangelicals that now dominate Protestantism.

But I feel like you're forgetting that there are still over 25 million Mainline Protestants in this country (United Methodist, Presbyterian, United Church of Christ, etc.) that are easily ahead of Catholicism on science, and they currently control the Presidency. :P

Interestingly enough, the Pew Forum did a poll on evolution in 2007 by religious group.

51% of mainline Protestants believe in evolution is the best explanation of the origin of species in the US.

58% of Catholics do.

Your assertion is not necessarily supported by the data.

Source: http://www.pewforum.org/Science-and-Bioethics/Religious-Differences-o n -the-Question-of-Evolution.aspx


The difference is that Catholic schools do teach evolution as the SINGULAR and ONLY explanation for the arrival of life as it is today.  There is no "Intelligent Design" dicussions ... the papacy, and the Church itself has accepted Evolution as the true explanation.  Now, the reason being is this does not preclude an overall design by a higher power.  As it was explained to me, how could one look at the Earth today, with all of it's varying life forms and species and then look at the complex dynamics of evolution and NOT think that it is God's work.  In essence, evolution does not explain away the origin of life, which is still the empowered ember of a God.  Evolution merely explains the life we see today.

Catholics are NOT the 6000 years old people (however, like any group, there are people within the congregations that don't believe in evolution).  The official stance of the Holy Roman Catholic Church though IS the complete acceptance of the theory of evolution.
 
2013-04-15 10:16:25 AM  

Dragonflew: RexTalionis: 51% of mainline Protestants believe in evolution is the best explanation of the origin of species in the US.

58% of Catholics do.

Odd. According to a Gallup poll:

Forty-six percent (ofAmericans) said they believe God created human beings in their current form over the past 10,000 years.

Thirty-two percent said human beings develop over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided the process.

It was only 15 percent of those polled who said they believed man developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but not by the hand of God. Of this 15 percent, these people were found among people who seldom or never go to church and people who attended post-graduate school.

So you are saying that Catholics are more likely to believe in evolution than the average American?


Trusting a gallop poll is like trusting the neighbor who heard a rumor about their cousins best friends sister. They are usually not as accurate as they should be.
 
2013-04-15 10:17:48 AM  

Dragonflew: RexTalionis: 51% of mainline Protestants believe in evolution is the best explanation of the origin of species in the US.

58% of Catholics do.

Odd. According to a Gallup poll:

Forty-six percent (ofAmericans) said they believe God created human beings in their current form over the past 10,000 years.

Thirty-two percent said human beings develop over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided the process.

It was only 15 percent of those polled who said they believed man developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but not by the hand of God. Of this 15 percent, these people were found among people who seldom or never go to church and people who attended post-graduate school.

So you are saying that Catholics are more likely to believe in evolution than the average American?


If you look at my original source, you'd find that is exactly the conclusion reached by the Pew Forum.

www.pewforum.org
 
2013-04-15 10:31:55 AM  

Altair: Who gives a shiat? So tired of hearing about the god damned Pope.


Then why on Earth are you clicking on links and discussion threads devoted to the pope and what he's up to?
 
2013-04-15 10:36:45 AM  

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: Altair: Who gives a shiat? So tired of hearing about the god damned Pope.

Then why on Earth are you clicking on links and discussion threads devoted to the pope and what he's up to?


Because he's cooler than all that.
 
2013-04-15 10:42:53 AM  

WaitWhatWhy: Ping_Me: ModernLuddite: Some people play D&D, some people are into baseball, some people go to church.

I play D&D AND go to church. What now?

Roll a cleric?


Turnin' me some undead.
 
2013-04-15 11:03:13 AM  

brantgoose: He's going to ordain a woman?

He's going to revive the priesthood by allowing married priests for the first time in over a thousand years?

He's going to drag the Church kicking and screaming into the Enlightenment?

No, he's going to try to wrest control of the Church from the Italians who over-whelming occupy the power structure, the bureaucracy, the Curia, and even the College of Cardinals.

Lots of luck, Pape. You've chosen a worthy goal. It's been good knowing you. You'd have better luck fighting the Mafia, not that there isn't a fair amount of over-lap between the Italian power base in the Church and the Mafia everywhere else in Italy.

So this is why Saint Malarky decided you would be the last Pope. Verily, your reward awaits you in Heaven, because their will be precious little peace for you on Earth.


I miss Pope Snowball.
 
2013-04-15 11:34:54 AM  

pkellmey: Trusting a gallop poll is like trusting the neighbor who heard a rumor about their cousins best friends sister. They are usually not as accurate as they should be.


OK, I will trust the religious site instead, they're always fact-based.
 
2013-04-15 12:11:27 PM  
Those of us who persistently clamor against boy-farking AKA "celibacy" need to realize this:  The celibacy policy protects the Vatican's vast wealth.

Sex brings offspring that are legally entitled to inheritance.  So does marriage.  Hence the culture of boy-farking; boys can't get pregnant, and up to a certain age they're sorta girly.  Celibacy & poverty vows were designed to prevent anyone from getting a slice of the pie.

Of course there have been countless illegitimate children from priests & nuns, by popes, even.  But you see, the key word is "illegitimate;" illegitimate children have little recourse to inheritance.

If there were marriage, when priests & nuns die, the Church would be on the hook to provide for their widows & children -- quite a bit of that Vatican loot would be drained.  It's foolish to think the Church will ever allow marriage among its ordained -- after all, Jesus never married.
 
2013-04-15 12:14:17 PM  

CmndrFish: RexTalionis: brantgoose: He's going to drag the Church kicking and screaming into the Enlightenment?

Not for anything, but among the Christian denominations out there, the Roman Catholic Church is probably one of the most accepting of the principles of science and mathematics out there, especially compared to their Protestant and evangelical brethren. The Vatican has endorsed evolution to a higher degree than many other Christian denominations, including the ones who literally believe that the Earth is 6000 years old. The Vatican also has an official astronomer and observatory, plus the Pontifical Academy of Sciences uses the world's leading scientists to advise the Pope in matters of science.

The Church has changed a little since the trial of Galileo and it'd take a fool not to see that.

/Not a Catholic

The Catholic church is, no doubt, more accepting of scientific progress than most give it credit for.  Probably because that part of the message always gets drowned out by the loud anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage.  Definitely better than the Evangelicals that now dominate Protestantism.

But I feel like you're forgetting that there are still over 25 million Mainline Protestants in this country (United Methodist, Presbyterian, United Church of Christ, etc.) that are easily ahead of Catholicism on science, and they currently control the Presidency. :P


Catholics control the Supreme Court, and these Justices serve for life.
 
2013-04-15 12:16:24 PM  

Dragonflew: pkellmey: Trusting a gallop poll is like trusting the neighbor who heard a rumor about their cousins best friends sister. They are usually not as accurate as they should be.

OK, I will trust the religious site instead, they're always fact-based.


If they've done the same poll, no reason not to. Everything has the same believability when you don't have the +/- or the raw data and the questions actually asked. As was pointed out, Pew has completely different results. The methods appear in conflict because they look to be determining the results in this case.
 
2013-04-15 01:34:08 PM  

worlddan: The downside is that he is old. And while he's moving quickly the fact is that at best he has ten-15 years. So there isn't anything really permanent. Look at it as a big experiment.


If within that 10 to 15 years he appoints a ton of young, reform minded bishops, he can help ensure that the next Pope elected is also of the same mind.

I like this Pope.   He seems kinda Christian in his thinking.
 
2013-04-15 01:37:09 PM  
Huh, Hindus believe in evolution. I guess reincarnating as something better each cycle is a form of evolution.
 
2013-04-15 02:06:52 PM  

Rent Party: worlddan: The downside is that he is old. And while he's moving quickly the fact is that at best he has ten-15 years. So there isn't anything really permanent. Look at it as a big experiment.

If within that 10 to 15 years he appoints a ton of young, reform minded bishops, he can help ensure that the next Pope elected is also of the same mind.

I like this Pope.   He seems kinda Christian in his thinking.


Sad thing is, at this point in Catholic Church history, there aren't a ton of young priests to choose bishops from.  The average age is probably in the 65-68 yr old range, with more entering retirement/dying than new ones entering the seminary.
 
2013-04-15 02:22:00 PM  

WalMartian: Rent Party: worlddan: The downside is that he is old. And while he's moving quickly the fact is that at best he has ten-15 years. So there isn't anything really permanent. Look at it as a big experiment.

If within that 10 to 15 years he appoints a ton of young, reform minded bishops, he can help ensure that the next Pope elected is also of the same mind.

I like this Pope.   He seems kinda Christian in his thinking.

Sad thing is, at this point in Catholic Church history, there aren't a ton of young priests to choose bishops from.  The average age is probably in the 65-68 yr old range, with more entering retirement/dying than new ones entering the seminary.


That is mostly just N. America and Europe. Africa is sending more missionary priests to the U.S. and Europe every year. Africa, Asia and Oceania are most likely the future for the biggest growth in Catholicism, so this Pope is a good transition from focusing mostly on the values of first world nations and more towards addressing the needs of the third world.
 
2013-04-15 02:31:50 PM  

WalMartian: Rent Party: worlddan: The downside is that he is old. And while he's moving quickly the fact is that at best he has ten-15 years. So there isn't anything really permanent. Look at it as a big experiment.

If within that 10 to 15 years he appoints a ton of young, reform minded bishops, he can help ensure that the next Pope elected is also of the same mind.

I like this Pope.   He seems kinda Christian in his thinking.

Sad thing is, at this point in Catholic Church history, there aren't a ton of young priests to choose bishops from.  The average age is probably in the 65-68 yr old range, with more entering retirement/dying than new ones entering the seminary.


If the church would abolish the  Celibacy requirement for priests, there are a number of Catholics how would take the vows. The Celibacy deal was a medieval land grab and has no basis in the Gospels.
 
2013-04-15 02:34:54 PM  

WalMartian: Rent Party: worlddan: The downside is that he is old. And while he's moving quickly the fact is that at best he has ten-15 years. So there isn't anything really permanent. Look at it as a big experiment.

If within that 10 to 15 years he appoints a ton of young, reform minded bishops, he can help ensure that the next Pope elected is also of the same mind.

I like this Pope.   He seems kinda Christian in his thinking.

Sad thing is, at this point in Catholic Church history, there aren't a ton of young priests to choose bishops from.  The average age is probably in the 65-68 yr old range, with more entering retirement/dying than new ones entering the seminary.


Yeah, I totally get that bit.  I have an uncle and an aunt that are a priest and nun, respectively.   They are both fantastic people but getting on in their years.  Uncle Priest especially is having a hard time of it.  He runs two parishes now, and a school, simply because there aren't enough priests to take over the load.   My sister is Catholic and her church has a rotating crew of priests, one of which was drug out of retirement to fill the role.

The celibacy rule is going to have to change, or the church will die.   People used to go to seminary because they were dirt poor and the church offered a way out of that.  With growing economic development global, more people having more choices is a real drain.    Where it used to be "a live of celibacy and poverty, but I get to eat every day OR I can starve" it is now "celibacy vs entering a global economy."    Most priests these days are coming out of the third world.   When the third world is gone, so will be the church.
 
2013-04-15 02:35:44 PM  

pkellmey: Africa, Asia and Oceania are most likely the future for the biggest growth in Catholicism, so this Pope is a good transition from focusing mostly on the values of first world nations and more towards addressing the needs of the third world.


Don't forget Latin America.  In short, anywhere poor, uneducated and desperate.  That's where the faithful are.  Pure coincidence, I'm sure.
 
2013-04-15 02:52:04 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Will there still be cake?


The cake is a lie.

Like the rest of it.
 
2013-04-15 05:59:11 PM  

seadoo2006: As it was explained to me, how could one look at the Earth today, with all of it's varying life forms and species and then look at the complex dynamics of evolution and NOT think that it is God's work.


Very easily, I find.
 
2013-04-15 11:09:44 PM  

Rent Party: Phoenix_M: brantgoose:

He's going to revive the priesthood by allowing married priests for the first time in over a thousand years?


They've been allowing "already" married men to become Priest again for about 20 years.  I know 2 of them.

That's only if they are ordained in another church that allows mairraige, and convert.  It was a specific ploy to encourage Episcopalian ministers to convert.


In the Eastern Rite of the Catholic Church, married men are allowed to become priests. Or, more precisely, the vow of celibacy is optional for priests, which in practice means they can marry.

Celibacy from a theological standpoint is not a big deal. It's a custom in the western world, because if you're priest you're supposed to have that be your No. 1 priority, as opposed to your family, which is certainly reasonable. That's all.
 
2013-04-15 11:15:02 PM  

CoonAce: CmndrFish: RexTalionis: brantgoose: He's going to drag the Church kicking and screaming into the Enlightenment?

Not for anything, but among the Christian denominations out there, the Roman Catholic Church is probably one of the most accepting of the principles of science and mathematics out there, especially compared to their Protestant and evangelical brethren. The Vatican has endorsed evolution to a higher degree than many other Christian denominations, including the ones who literally believe that the Earth is 6000 years old. The Vatican also has an official astronomer and observatory, plus the Pontifical Academy of Sciences uses the world's leading scientists to advise the Pope in matters of science.

The Church has changed a little since the trial of Galileo and it'd take a fool not to see that.

/Not a Catholic

The Catholic church is, no doubt, more accepting of scientific progress than most give it credit for.  Probably because that part of the message always gets drowned out by the loud anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage.  Definitely better than the Evangelicals that now dominate Protestantism.

But I feel like you're forgetting that there are still over 25 million Mainline Protestants in this country (United Methodist, Presbyterian, United Church of Christ, etc.) that are easily ahead of Catholicism on science, and they currently control the Presidency. :P


I don't know of any other religious dominations that run an observatory or came up with modern genetics (Mendel) or the Big Bang Theory (I was going to say Gamow, but I forgot his name) or the modern scheme of stellar classification (Castelli) or were big wheel in human evolution (Theilhard de Chardin). It's the official party line that a conflict between theology and science is impossible. If there is one, then someone is making a mistake. And yes, that goes back to Galileo, popular myth notwithstanding.
 
2013-04-16 09:13:17 AM  

enemy of the state: CoonAce: CmndrFish: RexTalionis: brantgoose: He's going to drag the Church kicking and screaming into the Enlightenment?

Not for anything, but among the Christian denominations out there, the Roman Catholic Church is probably one of the most accepting of the principles of science and mathematics out there, especially compared to their Protestant and evangelical brethren. The Vatican has endorsed evolution to a higher degree than many other Christian denominations, including the ones who literally believe that the Earth is 6000 years old. The Vatican also has an official astronomer and observatory, plus the Pontifical Academy of Sciences uses the world's leading scientists to advise the Pope in matters of science.

The Church has changed a little since the trial of Galileo and it'd take a fool not to see that.

/Not a Catholic

The Catholic church is, no doubt, more accepting of scientific progress than most give it credit for.  Probably because that part of the message always gets drowned out by the loud anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage.  Definitely better than the Evangelicals that now dominate Protestantism.

But I feel like you're forgetting that there are still over 25 million Mainline Protestants in this country (United Methodist, Presbyterian, United Church of Christ, etc.) that are easily ahead of Catholicism on science, and they currently control the Presidency. :P

I don't know of any other religious dominations that run an observatory or came up with modern genetics (Mendel) or the Big Bang Theory (I was going to say Gamow, but I forgot his name) or the modern scheme of stellar classification (Castelli) or were big wheel in human evolution (Theilhard de Chardin). It's the official party line that a conflict between theology and science is impossible. If there is one, then someone is making a mistake. And yes, that goes back to Galileo, popular myth notwithstanding.


I believe the person you were looking for was the Catholic priest, Georges Lemaître.  Simply put, the Catholic Church, in the last 400 years has grown to be one of the leading faiths in the science realm.  Remember, science does not set out to destroy faith, but to find truth.  Religion, and faith, seeks to find truth.  Thus, as you said, the official stance of the Church is that science and faith are one in the same.

Now, this of course does not preclude the Church from having some staunchly conservative values when it comes to the morality of science, but they do keep one thing straight: that human life is always precious.  Anti-abortion, anti-stem cell, anti-IV Fertilization, anti-cloning, anti-sex outside of marriage, anti-capital punishment, etc.  The doctrine the Church subscribes to is one of protecting human life.
 
2013-04-16 10:29:00 AM  
Since the Pope is a direct conduit for God and thus infallible, I must ask...

phillbarron.files.wordpress.com

What does the Pope need with an advisory council?
 
2013-04-16 10:45:28 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: pkellmey: Africa, Asia and Oceania are most likely the future for the biggest growth in Catholicism, so this Pope is a good transition from focusing mostly on the values of first world nations and more towards addressing the needs of the third world.

Don't forget Latin America.  In short, anywhere poor, uneducated and desperate.  That's where the faithful are.  Pure coincidence, I'm sure.


It's always been recognized that the materialism of the first world makes it difficult to maintain a concern for the poor/underprivileged, etc. That's the current problem with Latin America. They have a currently large base, but the increased materialism they have seen in recent years makes it increasingly more likely that they may have a christian culture, but are beginning to turn away from christian worship at an increasing rate. It's difficult to worry about the problems of others when we are too concerned worrying about having enough money for all the toys we can't afford and don't need.
 
2013-04-16 12:00:36 PM  

CoonAce: Those of us who persistently clamor against boy-farking AKA "celibacy" need to realize this:  The celibacy policy protects the Vatican's vast wealth.

Sex brings offspring that are legally entitled to inheritance.  So does marriage.  Hence the culture of boy-farking; boys can't get pregnant, and up to a certain age they're sorta girly.  Celibacy & poverty vows were designed to prevent anyone from getting a slice of the pie.

Of course there have been countless illegitimate children from priests & nuns, by popes, even.  But you see, the key word is "illegitimate;" illegitimate children have little recourse to inheritance.

If there were marriage, when priests & nuns die, the Church would be on the hook to provide for their widows & children -- quite a bit of that Vatican loot would be drained.  It's foolish to think the Church will ever allow marriage among its ordained -- after all, Jesus never married.


Protestant and Orthodox churches seem to do just fine with married priests.
 
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