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(Yahoo)   If you found a small amount of cash in a stray wallet on a park bench in New York City, would you take it? The NYPD hopes you do   ( news.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, New York Police Department, chess tactics, New York Civil Liberties Union, possession of stolen property, habitual offender, old single  
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19887 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Apr 2013 at 3:55 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-14 05:32:20 PM  

GAT_00: Great Janitor: Years ago, when I was a senior in high school I found a wallet in the hallway.  There were some personal notes that were folded up, no cash but a drivers license.  The license belonged to a student in the class that I was walking to next.  So I went to class with the wallet.  She was in a panic and was looking for it.  I stopped her and handed it to her, told her exactly where I found it.  The teacher stopped her and told her to tell me thank you.

She turned me into the principal for stealing the cash that was already taken from the wallet before I even found it.  Now, my friend was with me when I found it so he knows that the cash (assuming that there was any) was not even there.  So I learned the lesson that no good deed ever goes unpunished and to never return a missing wallet.

Hell, I don't even return lost cellphones.  Of the two I found, one I texted all the female contacts and asked for pic of their boobs, including the one labeled 'mom'.  His daughter was a bit concerned.  To his wife, I just texted her a notice about knocking up a 16 y.o. girl.  I then tossed it into a lake.  Of the other, I just texted one of those text here to donate $10 to this charity.  I did it until the battery ran down.

So because someone was once a dick to you, you are 10 times the asshole they were.

Cool story, bro.


First of all, if you don't lock your phone and you lose it, you deserve what happens next.  Secondly, well...I don't have a secondly.
 
2013-04-14 05:32:56 PM  

rkiller1: louiedog: I probably shouldn't have done anything then. The guy who answered at home was a dick and annoyed with me for bothering him. He then called his wife who was in the park with their daughter, the owner of the phone, who swung by 5 minutes later and barely acknowledged my presence and gave me a forced sounding thank you.

I found a wallet ten years ago and drove to the guys home and he had a similar response, an almost rude "thank you".  I found another wallet nearby and returned it anonymously to the guy's porch a few minutes later.  After reading this, I'll likely just leave it next time.  Finders weepers, losers cops.


Just grind the phone under your heel and keep moving.
 
2013-04-14 05:34:59 PM  

maxalt: What happens when at the end of the day when the cops comes and picks up the wallet? Can you do a citizens arrest for theft? What goes around comes around.


Yeah, if you want to get tasered while being pepper sprayed and billy clubbed and have a gun put in your dead hand. And a dildo up your ass.
 
2013-04-14 05:39:24 PM  

Karac: So you admit they didn't take anything, and didn't commit any crime then?


I never said they stole something and in light of that, the judge did the right thing. They were going to steal something and anybody with half a brain knows it.
 
2013-04-14 05:40:56 PM  

Mugato: maxalt: What happens when at the end of the day when the cops comes and picks up the wallet? Can you do a citizens arrest for theft? What goes around comes around.

Yeah, if you want to get tasered while being pepper sprayed and billy clubbed and have a gun put in your dead hand. And a dildo up your ass.


narwhaler.com
 
2013-04-14 05:41:48 PM  
Pretty sure this wouldn't hold up in court, if the wallets had no identification in them and the people didn't drop them in front of the "perpetrator."

*reads article*

Yep.
 
2013-04-14 05:44:02 PM  

The Pope of Manwich Village: Did someone say "Entrapment?"
upload.wikimedia.org


static8.depositphotos.com
 
2013-04-14 05:45:24 PM  
So the last time I found a wallet, I was riding my bike to the gym and running late.  Wallet was right there in the road so I picked it up and then carried on with my business.  Stopped by the owner's apartment to return it on the way home.  Kind of sucks that I would have gotten busted if that was a sting operation.
 
2013-04-14 05:45:36 PM  

Mugato: It's good to know that there's no crime in NYC so cops have the time to engage in entrapment.


When i was waiting tables, I once saved a choking man's life, only to find out later that the four people sitting in the corner cheering me on were NYPD homicide detectives.
 
2013-04-14 05:49:20 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: quatchi: There's no knowing if the person is picking it up to try and return it to the rightful owners or just taking it cos it's there.

No, that might be false arrest; it's still not entrapment which is defined as what I said above.

According to Wikipedia, that's "conduct by a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense that the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit".

As lordargent puts it, "For it to be entrapment, you have to be coerced into doing something you were not naturally inclined to do. IE, there would basically have to be an undercover cop telling you to "take the purse"....

Providing someone with an opportunity to commit a crime is no entrapment; coercing them to commit a crime is.

SilentStrider: an argument could be made, not that I'm saying it would be successful in court (but it should be, imho), that if the police didn't put the wallet there, there would be no reason for you to commit a crime.

As you cite, that argument would fail. "I wouldn't have stolen Mr Miller's car if he hadn't left it on the road." "Hey, if he didn't want his home burned down, he shouldn't have built it outta wood." "I'm from New York; everybody there knows you keep your wallet in your front pocket unless you are just askin' ta have your pocket picked."


I think you might want to understand the meaning of those two terms, inducing

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/inducing

and coerce

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/coerced

these are very different concepts and although courts may have been ruling that they are the same they are wrong and most likely go against the intent of the original law.

Words have meaning that's why we have dictionaries, just because cops and judges cannot read them doesn't mean there meaning no longer exists.
 
2013-04-14 05:49:29 PM  

Aar1012: What if I take the cash and wallet to an NYPD station and report it as lost?

/DNRTFA


I've found three wallets now, and two university IDs (tied to bank accounts, sometimes) and one license.  3/6 were easy to turn in.  The other times I was running late somewhere and no official to turn it into in sight - so I looked up the office of the university ID and mailed it out.  Mailed the license out.  Looked up the person from the wallet from *his* university ID and took a bus to meet him on another campus.

GOOD TO F--KING KNOW that me going out of my way after I got to class or work on time could get me f--king thrown in jail.,

/I should've written down the names of all those people for future references, apparently
 
2013-04-14 05:49:30 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: The Pope of Manwich Village: Did someone say "Entrapment?"
[upload.wikimedia.org image 480x240]

[static8.depositphotos.com image 425x442]



"Thatsh one great ash"

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-04-14 05:54:08 PM  

serial_crusher: Get your phone out and video record yourself picking the thing up off the ground and keep it running your whole trip to the police station.

My

phone is just a damn phone.
 
Ral
2013-04-14 05:55:42 PM  
I'm the type of person who would pick up a wallet or a purse with the intent of 1) returning it to the owner, and 2) keeping it out of the hands of an actual thief.  My motive for investigating is a desire to protect the stuff, not steal it.

How can the police possibly prove that someone who picks up a discarded wallet or iPad intends to keep it for themselves?  That's criminalizing basic animal curiosity.
 
2013-04-14 05:57:09 PM  

Mugato: HindiDiscoMonster: The Pope of Manwich Village: Did someone say "Entrapment?"
[upload.wikimedia.org image 480x240]

[static8.depositphotos.com image 425x442]


"Thatsh one great ash"

[upload.wikimedia.org image 250x217]


you know... i shudder at the idea of salad tossing activities, but for her, I may have to make an exception...
 
2013-04-14 05:57:51 PM  

Verzio: serial_crusher: Get your phone out and video record yourself picking the thing up off the ground and keep it running your whole trip to the police station.

My phone is just a damn phone.


You should have called it a telephone.  "Phone" is a nickname, and nicknames are for friends.
 
2013-04-14 05:59:00 PM  
Street theater happens all the time and I like to jump into it and make fun cuz I know it's a big fat fakery.

Gang stalkers do it too with some undercovers nearby.

One time some fed was playing guitar with sunglasses on outside a bar, then his buddy comes over to watch me watch him, and I see a pile of undercovers scoping everything at the first table on the patio. I say to the buddy "HEY you recognize this guy from his band?" "What band?" "Johnny Snitch and the Undercovers!" and I continue staring.
The look of uneasiness was priceless.

/targetted individual 15+ years
 
2013-04-14 06:03:59 PM  
Laws already create criminals, there is no reason for the police to bait the trap too.
 
2013-04-14 06:04:27 PM  

albatros183: Words have meaning that's why we have dictionaries, just because cops and judges cannot read them doesn't mean there meaning no longer exists.


And many have very specific meanings in law, whereas their common uises can be rather vague or even contradictory. In law (IANAL), simply providing someone with an opportunity to commit a crime does not count as entrapment; requesting someone commit a crime does.

serial_crusher: Did she commit entrapment?


Think of it this way:

Mom's rule has always been, "None of the children are allowed to eat snacks between 4p and 5p; it'll ruin their dinner." One day, shortly before 4p, Mom

a) bakes a tray of cookies and puts them on the dining room table to cool while she goes outside the house, leaving the cookies unguarded.
b) bakes a tray of cookies and puts them on the dining room table to cool while she goes outside the house, telling the children they may each have -one- cookie.

If the kids eat any cookies and she later punishes them for it:

a) she did not commit entrapment.
b) she committed entrapment.
 
2013-04-14 06:10:00 PM  

RealAmericanHero: Cue people saying this is entrapment using a completely fictional definition they picked up from absolutely nowhere in 5.. 4... whoops, too late.


thats what the thread is like when you DNRTFA, but its more like a sting where the paddy wagon jumped the gun before a crime was committed and decided to press charges anyways.
 
2013-04-14 06:10:07 PM  
I lost my wallet as a teenager, on a bike ride miles from home.  First I knew of it was when my dad handed it to me when I got back.  He said some guy dropped it off at the house using the address off my license.  All contents intact, cool dude was cool.
 By the sound of TFA, the cool guy who found my wallet would have been arrested in this sting because he picked it up and left with it, and never contacted the police.


I can just imagine him getting arrested, and saying "Really, I was going to return it!"  and the cops not believing him for one second.
 
2013-04-14 06:11:08 PM  
So if anyone finds anything that isn't claimed and takes it, that's theft? Where does that leave treasure hunters? Should Bill Paxton in Titanic have been arrested? Well he should have because that movie was terrible but that's not the point. I've gotten drunk and left my wallets in various places before and I wouldn't press charges on whoever picked it up.
 
2013-04-14 06:15:30 PM  
Good to know theyve solved all other crime in nyc
 
2013-04-14 06:16:41 PM  

thamike: Mugato: It's good to know that there's no crime in NYC so cops have the time to engage in entrapment.

When i was waiting tables, I once saved a choking man's life, only to find out later that the four people sitting in the corner cheering me on were NYPD homicide detectives.


Well, they are trained only in dealing with the dead.  What help could they have given?
 
2013-04-14 06:19:20 PM  
If they're trying to tell good people from bad, leaving money on the ground and seeing who takes it isn't really the best way.
 
2013-04-14 06:22:34 PM  

Aar1012: What if I take the cash and wallet to an NYPD station and report it as lost?


I've found a drivers license and a credit card on the street.  Took em, then dumped them in the owners mail slot after after work.  Also found a wallet, did the same thing.

Should I have not done that?
 
2013-04-14 06:24:22 PM  
One time I found a purse on a public sidewalk along a strip of bars. No one was around. I figured that some drunk girl had lost it. I took it with me, and I contacted her on Facebook. We met up the next day, and I gave her purse back. But I guess it would have been better if I would have kept on walking and said "not my problem." Better for me anyway... if I lived in NYC.
 
2013-04-14 06:32:40 PM  
Why not shoot the civilian in the head, then drop the weapon on their body?  That's how they do it in Afghanistan.
 
2013-04-14 06:33:00 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Leaving bait =/= entrapment.


I'd disagree, but only narrowly.  I'd say in this case, maybe it wasn't quite entrapment, but it sounds like even given that the 'perps' didn't actually take the bait.  If the police had waited, maybe they would have taken them 'money' from the car.  They didn't let them get that far.

I would say though, that leaving money in a car, even an unlocked car, or even an open car isn't entrapment.  Leaving it on a park bench unattended I would say is.  The difference, I would argue, is in a car the person who spots the money still knows that someone owns that money.  Just seeing money, even if it is 'bait' shouldn't count as entrapment.  Money that doesn't have a clear owner though, that's a lot different.  I've found money a couple times.  If it folds, I always try to see if the owner is nearby and return it.  (I don't worry about a quarter lying on the street, who is going to come back for a quarter?- and I don't worry about a penny, because hell if I'm going to bend over for a penny!)

Then there is this:  I once was walking down the street.  The police had a car pulled over along the side of the road.  They had a couple of young men pulled out of the car and they were going through their pockets.  It was a mildly windy day, and about 10 feet down the road from them on the sidewalk there was a $20.  I'd already walked past the officers.  I picked it up and walked pack.  One of the officer looked at me nervously (I know it's always dangerous to approach an officer in a situation like that.  They are sometimes nervous, but there were 3-4 of them.)

He asked me what I wanted.  I said I'd found a $20.  He asked me what I wanted him to do about it.  I sort of shrugged and said, 'I don't know, can I turn it in as lost money, is it yours or theirs?'

At that point one of the young men said it might be his (the cops were turning out his pockets.  It probably was his.  The cop very confidently turned to the young man and said, 'It's not yours' and turned back to me and said 'keep it.'  I didn't know what else to do.  I wasn't going to argue with a cop over it, so I put it in my pocket and walked away.

Never get in the way of a cop abusing someones rights over $20 unless you have to.  (Although, maybe in retrospect it was all a sting!  Yeah, now I don't feel guilty.  It was a sting and as a reward for doing the right thing they gave me $20.

Nope, not buying it.  Sorry random dude pulled over on the side of the road.
 
2013-04-14 06:33:33 PM  

puddleonfire: Street theater happens all the time and I like to jump into it and make fun cuz I know it's a big fat fakery.

Gang stalkers do it too with some undercovers nearby.

One time some fed was playing guitar with sunglasses on outside a bar, then his buddy comes over to watch me watch him, and I see a pile of undercovers scoping everything at the first table on the patio. I say to the buddy "HEY you recognize this guy from his band?" "What band?" "Johnny Snitch and the Undercovers!" and I continue staring.
The look of uneasiness was priceless.

/targetted individual 15+ years


There was a house across the street from my college dorm that student groups could rent out for small events of 20-30 people. The animal rights club had an animal liberation guy come speak. In my dorm lobby a couple of uniformed university police officers were talking to two undercover city cops who would be sitting in on the meeting. They were both in their 40s, ~250 lbs, and looked like they just got done filming scenes for a Roadhouse remake. Having been to a few seedier places in California they appeared to be trying to infiltrate something more like the Hell's Angels. I'm sure they didn't stick out at all from the skinny hipster kids at an expensive private university that I saw going into that meeting.
 
2013-04-14 06:33:49 PM  

studebaker hoch: If they're trying to tell good people from bad, leaving money on the ground and seeing who takes it isn't really the best way.


They're trying to find probable cause to run a warrants check.
 
2013-04-14 06:35:43 PM  

Theaetetus: fredklein: ArcadianRefugee: Because the cops didn't give instructions to pick up the item; the person did it on their own.

Myers' daughter, seeing that the driver left the car door open, went over and peered inside to see personal items that included what looked like a bundle of cash - in reality, a dollar bill wrapped around pieces of newspaper. The girl had called her mother over when another set of police officers suddenly pulled up in a van and forced them to the ground, according to Myers' account.

Sorry, I missed the part where they picked anything up.

Myers' account in the article differs from the state's account that said she entered the car and took the property, as well as differing from her own statements to the court, where she said that she intended to safeguard the property for the "arrestee".


The only reference to what happened in the PDF you linked to is this:

"Defendant and her daughter are accused of then entering the car and taking the property."

That's it. No evidence it actually happened, just that they were charged with it. Which matches her story:

The girl had called her mother over when another set of police officers suddenly pulled up in a van and forced them to the ground, according to Myers' account.

"Get on the floor? For what?" Myers recalled telling the officers.

The officers took them into custody...


I mean, you do realize that being accused of something doesn't automatically make you guilty of it, Right? Cops accuse people of stuff as an excuse to arrest them all the time. Fark just had an article about a cop arresting a guy for video recording him 'because the cell phone might have been a weapon'. With cops pulling bullshiat like that, I trust I'll be forgiven for not taking them at their word all the time.

The article also seems to imply they peered inside while the cops were still chasing the subject, while the court decision states that they officers had the "arrestee" in custody and then left with him, leaving his car unlocked.

If the 'arrestee' was sufficiently far away, or around a corner, it might not have been clear to her if they were 'in custody' or not at that exact moment,. In fact, the linked article simply says:

When the driver got out and ran, the officers gave chase, yelling, "Stop! Police!" her suit says.

Myers' daughter, seeing that the driver left the car door open, went over and peered inside ...


...with no mention of how long a time it took, or the state of the 'arrestee' at the time they looked in the car.

And, as a matter of fact,the PDF you linked to has the following:

"...defendant was arrested almost immediately. Had some time elapsed, the police would have been able to observe whether defendant left a note on the car... or whether she instead took [the money] with her or tried to use it."

IF they HAD waited to see her actually take it, we wouldn't be discussing this right now, and she'd be in jail. (Actually, probably on probation, but you know what I mean...)
 
2013-04-14 06:39:49 PM  

Candygram4Mongo: So I should stop picking up those nickels I find on the sidewalk?


i291.photobucket.com

I don't have to explain my art to you!
 
2013-04-14 06:42:44 PM  

AxemRed: One time I found a purse on a public sidewalk along a strip of bars. No one was around. I figured that some drunk girl had lost it. I took it with me, and I contacted her on Facebook. We met up the next day, and I gave her purse back. But I guess it would have been better if I would have kept on walking and said "not my problem." Better for me anyway... if I lived in NYC.


Worst "Dear Penthouse" letter ever...
 
2013-04-14 06:44:33 PM  

ArcadianRefugee:
Me too! But then again I was speaking to entrapment, and pointed out that it STILL WOULDN'T BE ENTRAPMENT.


Oh, I agree with you on that. I was just responding to the "person did [pick up the item] on their own" part.
 
2013-04-14 06:45:02 PM  
What ever happened to "finders keepers"? If you found something in a public area that's on the ground, like $5 or even $20, isn't it considered as something you can already take? It's not like you forcefully took it away from its original owner like how a real criminal would do it.

I think there's a difference between going inside somebody's car and taking their stuff and simply finding a lost item in a public area. Although it would be nice if people took that bag of grocery and took it to the police for you to recover, they're not supposed to be obligated to. First, it's very unlikely that you would leave any kind of information in the grocery bag stating that it belongs to you. Whoever finds it wouldn't have any idea. Second, it's not like it's very easy to find a policeman or a police station where you can simply cross the street and deliver the lost items.

Wallets are a different case though because those usually contain data that says whom it belongs to. Still, just because someone has your wallet doesn't immediately mean they're the ones who also took your wallet. What if the thief just threw away the wallet and a "good samaritan" happened to just pick it up in an effort to return it to you or hand it over to the police? Of course, being caught with an empty wallet that doesn't belong to you would immediately cast horrible suspicions about you.

There are certain situations that seems like the best course of action is inaction because of set-ups like this. If you see a wallet and you honestly believe that it's the right thing to return it to the owner, no, don't get involved. You might suddenly get branded as a criminal simply because you picked it up.
 
2013-04-14 06:45:58 PM  

serial_crusher: Get your phone out and video record yourself picking the thing up off the ground and keep it running your whole trip to the police station.


Yeah, but that wouldn't necessarily protect you...I can just see the article/headline now:

[ FAIL ] Dumb: Stealing a wallet. Dumber: Videotaping yourself committing the crime. FARK: Delivering the video evidence right to the police.

Article: Officers questioned Mr. Crusher when they saw him videotaping around the police station and confiscated his cellphone. Once they saw the footage of the theft, he was immediately arrested for larceny and violating a regulation barring photography of government buildings. Crusher claims he was turning the wallet in after finding it on a park bench.
 
2013-04-14 06:46:33 PM  

serial_crusher: SilentStrider: lordargent: Mentat: How the fark is this not entrapment?

For it to be entrapment, you have to be coerced into doing something you were not naturally inclined to do.

IE, there would basically have to be an undercover cop telling you to "take the purse", then you would say "no", and then the cop would say "come on dude, nobody is looking, take the purse and let's get some beers", and you finally cave in.

an argument could be made, not that I'm saying it would be successful in court (but it should be, imho), that if the police didn't put the wallet there, there would be no reason for you to commit a crime.

couldn't say, a cop killer, make the same argument?  "I couldn't/wouldn't have killed that cop if he wasn't there in my house serving that warrant...."


Maybe if the cop was there serving a warrant specifically because they were sent there to see if they would get shot, you would have a point.
 
2013-04-14 06:50:12 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Mom's rule has always been, "None of the children are allowed to eat snacks between 4p and 5p; it'll ruin their dinner." One day, shortly before 4p, Mom

a) bakes a tray of cookies and puts them on the dining room table to cool while she goes outside the house, leaving the cookies unguarded.
b) bakes a tray of cookies and puts them on the dining room table to cool while she goes outside the house, telling the children they may each have -one- cookie.

If the kids eat any cookies and she later punishes them for it:

a) she did not commit entrapment.
b) she committed entrapment.


A) Unless the kids had permission to eat the cookies at all, they are in the wrong, entrapment or no.
B) as long as they finish eating before 4pm, the kids did nothing wrong. (You did say she left the cookies out "shortly before" 4pm, right? (Same logic applies if she stays outside until after 5pm, and the kids wait until 5:01pm to eat a cookie.)
 
2013-04-14 06:55:33 PM  

fredklein: ArcadianRefugee:
Me too! But then again I was speaking to entrapment, and pointed out that it STILL WOULDN'T BE ENTRAPMENT.

Oh, I agree with you on that. I was just responding to the "person did [pick up the item] on their own" part.


Sorry; was speaking theoretical, rather than to this situation in specific.

In this sit, either they (the ladies) lied or the cops jumped the gun.

fredklein: ArcadianRefugee: Mom's rule has always been, "None of the children are allowed to eat snacks between 4p and 5p; it'll ruin their dinner." One day, shortly before 4p, Mom

a) bakes a tray of cookies and puts them on the dining room table to cool while she goes outside the house, leaving the cookies unguarded.
b) bakes a tray of cookies and puts them on the dining room table to cool while she goes outside the house, telling the children they may each have -one- cookie.

If the kids eat any cookies and she later punishes them for it:

a) she did not commit entrapment.
b) she committed entrapment.

A) Unless the kids had permission to eat the cookies at all, they are in the wrong, entrapment or no.
B) as long as they finish eating before 4pm, the kids did nothing wrong. (You did say she left the cookies out "shortly before" 4pm, right? (Same logic applies if she stays outside until after 5pm, and the kids wait until 5:01pm to eat a cookie.)


Heh. I was meaning "started all this shortly before" but you are right; if she was done before 4p, the kids would have been kid-wise to simply have a cookie-eating contest.
 
2013-04-14 07:02:39 PM  

Karac: Two cars race by you. People get out and start running down the street, leaving one of the cars open. Nobody has normal behavior for that situation because it's not a normal situation. Why wouldn't someone go over check the car for a baby, somebody shot in the back seat, or God only knows what?


Well that's the thing.  I a naturally suspicious person with an honest but shady mind. My instinct would be to stay the fark away from any of that.  But I've noted that a lot of people are just naively earnest, it doesn't cross their mind to do anything wrong, nor that the police would have any other idea.

Conservative: A liberal who's been mugged.
Liberal: A conservative that's been arrested in Chicago.
 
2013-04-14 07:05:51 PM  
Every day I am more and more convinced that I am never going to New York City.
 
2013-04-14 07:09:34 PM  

SH: 10 years ago I found a wallet in the parking lot of the local Kwicky Mart. It had $40ish and the usual stuff. I picked it up, put it in my pocket, bought whatever I went there to buy and went home. I Googled the name on the DL, found a similar name a few neighborhoods over, and called. Nobody answered so I hung up (no message).

I didn't leave it with the cashiers at the Kwicky Mart for obvious reasons. Several hours later I got an anonymous call, the people I called earlier were calling the number on their caller ID. I asked if they had lost a wallet, they answered their son might have. Long story short, he was close enough to walk to my place and claim it, offered me the $40 in it because everything was still there, I declined. my good deed for the week.

So, in NYC I'd be behind bars for this according to how I read this article. At what point does this good deed become a crime? Isn't the real crime here the cops setting up such a ridiculous sting just to make their numbers look good?


If that happened to me, I would insist on meeting in a public place. I wouldn't want people to know where I live. Yeah, I'm paranoid.
 
2013-04-14 07:12:58 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Mentat: How the fark is this not entrapment?  It's one thing to leave a car or bike in a high crime area and see if someone tries to openly steal it.  But to put on these performances designed to attract the curiosity of bystanders and then nab them for checking things out?  How can that be legal?

Because the cops didn't give instructions to pick up the item; the person did it on their own.

If a[n undercover] cop said, "Go grab that wallet" or "please take the bag from my car and hide it" then it would be entrapment.

Leaving bait =/= entrapment.


The problem is that they aren't just leaving bait.  They are putting on a performance for the sole purpose of drawing attention to the item and then, based on this article, nabbing anyone who comes close.  While that may not technically fit the definition of entrapment, they are toeing the line about as close as they possibly can.
 
2013-04-14 07:28:43 PM  

Sim Tree: nekom: TexasPeace: Twenty-five years ago, I saw an unattended purse under a park bench downtown.  I watched it for few minutes, and nobody was anywhere around it.  It was an area known for lots of tourists.  I was inclined to just leave it there, but I kept thinking how somebody's vacation might be ruined.  Finally, against my better judgment, I picked it up and walked to the downtown police station, where I turned it in.  It turned out that it belonged to a teenaged tourist, and contained nearly four hundred dollars of her graduation gift money.

I almost didn't get involved.  I didn't want somebody to claim that the 6'5" pony-tailed man had just stolen the purse that he was carrying as he was walking down the city street. I did not want the owner to discover or allege any missing contents in the purse.  What if the purse contained drugs, or a weapon?  Should I open it before turning it in, just to be sure?

Thanks, NYPD, for further discouraging Good Samaritans.

These days, I'd be more worried that cops in such a situation would call in the bomb squad to detonate the `suspicious abandoned package'

This actually happened at a convention I was at, once. Cleared the hotel for an hour. Police/Homeland security apparently thought loose bags were 'suspcious'. It's a bloody convention; absolutly everyone has a swag bag, nincompoops.


Our 'swag bags' must be clear now, for that very reason.

/interesting to see what others value - who needs that many pencils, even if they're 'free'?
 
2013-04-14 07:51:03 PM  
A decade or so ago, I was walking across campus at college.

I saw a cell phone laying in the parking lot.  I investigated a little closer.  It was working, had power and everything.

Nobody around it could belong to, I was the only person in the lot.  I looked through the address book and found an entry named "Mom".

I called it.  I told the woman who answered that I'd found this phone in a parking lot and was wondering how to get it to its rightful owner.

The woman said her son had lost his phone yesterday and had been freaking out trying to find it.  I asked where he was so I could take it back to him.  She told me what dorm he was at, and said she'd call him on his phone in the dorm to tell him to expect me.

I walked across campus, happy I was doing a good deed.  I walked into the dorm, and there was a guy standing there.  He stormed up to me.  As I started to smile and say hello he angrily snapped "Give me back my phone you thief!" as he swiped the phone out of my hands and ran off, darting up the stairs.

Confused, and angry, I turned around and left.  If I was going to be treated like shiat I could have left his phone out there.  Sounds like the NYPD would have arrested me for just picking up the phone to begin with.
 
2013-04-14 07:51:06 PM  
7th Son of a 7th Son : Leave the freepers out of this. ;)

Sorry, I don't speak politics ... I don't even have a politics tab (thanks to adblock) :P

lordargent.com
 
2013-04-14 07:56:27 PM  

Mentat: The problem is that they aren't just leaving bait. They are putting on a performance for the sole purpose of drawing attention to the item and then, based on this article, nabbing anyone who comes close. While that may not technically fit the definition of entrapment, they are toeing the line about as close as they possibly can.


That, actually, is a big (common) complaint with sting operations. Once upon a time it was just an open delivery van left unguarded. Then it became a big "Hey, look at me! I'm leaving my van unguarded!"

In all cases where the cops didn't cross the line, however, the judges have come down against the perps with a simple "I don't care if they did shove your face in the blinking, cherry red button; you still voluntarily pressed it knowing full well you shouldn't have."

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.comencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-04-14 07:57:57 PM  
It's not entrapment. I love the threads like this - some of you haven't been farkied yet. And no, "hey, just take it and we'll get some beers," isn't entrapment. Hopefully you learned something.

I do think it's a waste of time tho.
 
2013-04-14 08:09:20 PM  
When are we making a NYPD tag?
 
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