If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Talking Points Memo)   Last year, the Obamas paid a 25% higher tax rate than Mitt Romney - on only 3.5% of his last reported income   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 36
    More: Obvious, First Lady Michelle Obama, Dr. Jill Biden, tax rates, adjusted gross income  
•       •       •

4336 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Apr 2013 at 3:10 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2013-04-12 04:27:24 PM  
3 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: Christ you people are farking stupid. Capital gains and dividends were already taxed at the corporate level. So you need to add corporate taxes to Romney's (and Obama's, to the extent any of their income was from such income) to get an appropriate comparison.


If I buy a new car, I pay sales tax on that car. If I then sell that car later to someone else, that person has to pay sales tax on it... at the same rate.  Don't give us that double-taxation bullshiat. It is income and should be taxed as income just like wages.
2013-04-12 04:24:17 PM  
3 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: Christ you people are farking stupid. Capital gains and dividends were already taxed at the corporate level. So you need to add corporate taxes to Romney's (and Obama's, to the extent any of their income was from such income) to get an appropriate comparison.

Dont bother posting that cartoon that proves my point even though you think it proves yours. Just answer me this: how much of each dollar in pretax corporate income do you believe should end up in the pockets of owners, and how much should be taken by government? Be precise. Throw out a number.

/to the extent Romneys earnings were on carried interest, then that is a different story


Capital gains weren't taxed at the corporate level.

I buy buy stock in DSC Corporate Cocksuckers at $10 a share. Your business is so good that 5 years later I sell it at $100 a share. The income I derive from the increase in the value of the stock never passes through the hands of DSC Corporate Cocksuckers to be taxed.
2013-04-12 03:39:04 PM  
3 votes:
Jackson Herring: Tom_Slick: The Obamas paid 18.4% Bidens 22% Romney is probably somewhere in the low teens, it is shiat like this that really pisses me off about the US tax code.  When I was a fresh college grad making $27,500 a year living in a shiatty one bedroom apartment driving a 10 year old beater I was paying over 30% taking advantage of every last loophole and deduction.

you were not farking paying 30% in federal income tax, marginal or effective hth

Point of reference: I made $22k last year.  My effective rate was 5.53%.

/I'm at home, the tax documents were handy
2013-04-12 03:32:07 PM  
3 votes:
It's also worth noting that Obama didn't elect not to claim his charitable contributions on his tax return in order to artificially inflate his own tax rate while people were watching, leaving himself free to later amend his return and claim it after all.
2013-04-12 04:29:54 PM  
2 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: Christ you people are farking stupid. Capital gains and dividends were already taxed at the corporate level. So you need to add corporate taxes to Romney's (and Obama's, to the extent any of their income was from such income) to get an appropriate comparison.

Dont bother posting that cartoon that proves my point even though you think it proves yours. Just answer me this: how much of each dollar in pretax corporate income do you believe should end up in the pockets of owners, and how much should be taken by government? Be precise. Throw out a number.

/to the extent Romneys earnings were on carried interest, then that is a different story


Bullshiat bullshiat bullshiat.

So then on my labor income, can I count the money that my company paid in taxes? That's money that I helped contribute so that should lower my burden right? Not to mention that it's not like we actually do that math at the corporate level.  If GE pays an effective rate of 0% this year, suddenly are stockholders asked to pay 30% on their capital gains for sales of GE stock? No, they aren't.
2013-04-12 04:04:08 PM  
2 votes:

theknuckler_33: skullkrusher: theknuckler_33: skullkrusher: Tom_Slick: The Obamas paid 18.4% Bidens 22% Romney is probably somewhere in the low teens, it is shiat like this that really pisses me off about the US tax code.  When I was a fresh college grad making $27,500 a year living in a shiatty one bedroom apartment driving a 10 year old beater I was paying over 30% taking advantage of every last loophole and deduction.

that had to include state and local

Yea, and probably SS and medicare too.

I assumed that the Obama number included that

Why? You don't report that on your tax returns, do you?

/haven't filled out my own taxes in a while


Yes you do it is a deduction and yes my figure included SS and State which in GA is just a percentage of your federal but you deduct those withholding on your federal form as well.  What I am saying is it is too complicated to pay your damn taxes.  I am now self employed, run my business through an S-corp and I have to pay an accountant a considerable amount of money to keep me legal and out of trouble with the IRS.  It is too much, you should not need computer programs to file your  taxes, you should not need accounts to file your taxes, HR Block and shady rapid refund loan place (although these may have been banned as I have not heard ads for them lately) should not be a viable business.  The only reason for this is to hide how much the government takes from your check.

For the record I don't mind paying taxes, tax me at whatever percentage the government needs to function, but I should not have to spend 20 hours a quarter to figure out my tax liability. Just tell me, "You made $1000 send the government $250"
2013-04-12 03:29:36 PM  
2 votes:
  

Justin Bieber's Acne Medication: I paid 25% in federal income tax alone last year - ouch. More than Obama, even after adjusting for his big charitable deductions.


My Marginal was 25% this year, but my effective was 19%.
2013-04-12 03:23:35 PM  
2 votes:

FlashHarry: Lawyers With Nukes: Wow, just wow. The hypocrisy of the POTUS & FLOTUS is just too delicious for words.

$608,611 in income....18.4% in taxes. Let that sink in for a while you guys.

Login:    Lawyers With Nukes     
Account created:    2013-03-30 15:44:11

hmm....


Lawyers With Nukes: Wow, just wow. The hypocrisy of the POTUS & FLOTUS is just too delicious for words.

$608,611 in income....18.4% in taxes. Let that sink in for a while you guys.


I've let it sink in. Yes I should put you on my ignore list you're right.
2013-04-12 03:19:42 PM  
2 votes:

Soup4Bonnie: s2s2s2: How much writing off is he doing?

47%


BOOM

though to be fair, it was Romney who wrote off the 47%.
2013-04-12 03:14:53 PM  
2 votes:
Indefinite reference is indefinite. Whose "his last reported income"?
2013-04-12 07:15:04 PM  
1 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: The part of the fairtax is that after the elimination of income and business taxes, companies will magically lower the prices as opposed to tacking on the new tax rate, shrugging their shoulders and pocketing the savings.

This is also addressed in the book. Perhaps you should read it too.


No thanks. I'm still working on the Twilight saga to scratch the "magic and delusions for teenagers" itch.
2013-04-12 06:44:15 PM  
1 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: Philip Francis Queeg: Oh sweet mother of God....

Yes?

madgonad: f the Federal Fair tax was 30%, at my local Target it would be:

$100 for product, $30 for Federal Fair Tax, $7.85 for local, state, and city. So you would pay $137.85 at the register.

Perhaps you should read it.

Jackson Herring: apparently the only time taxes aren't legal theft is when they are disproportionately collected from the poors

You too.

Until you have you are attempting to discuss something that you know nothing about. And y'all keep trying to tell me that you're the learned....Well, go do some learnin' and get back to me.


So far it seems you're the only one discussing the fair tax proposal who doesn't have the barest of clues as to what it is. You apparently can't even attempt to describe it. All you can do is say "you didn't read it". I've read it, I've quoted it directly on fark many times, including in the thread I linked earlier. I've shown I know the details of the proposal, you can't even provide an outline.

Why don't you at least attempt to describe or cite something relating to the proposal to counter what people have said instead of just projecting your personal ignorance. You can't even answer the basic question about what the tax rate will be and you claim others need to do some learning.
2013-04-12 06:15:51 PM  
1 votes:
everystockphoto.s3.amazonaws.com
2013-04-12 05:14:38 PM  
1 votes:
oh god some double-tax moron is in this thread.

Income is income is income.  Don't give me some word-salad rich guys paid nerds to come up with to justify why they get special privileges.
2013-04-12 05:09:03 PM  
1 votes:

skullkrusher: theknuckler_33: I don't know too many low income folks that can a) afford the kind of outlays that you need to buy stocks and hold onto them for over a year and b) tolerate the risk associated with such activity.  The only way to mitigate the risks is to have a diversified portfolio which requires even more investments in a variety of stocks across different sectors of the economy and I'd bet that there are even fewer lower income folks who can do that.  That doesn't even mention that the how much cap gains income you might even have if you are a low income investor. I mean... how many shares of IBM can a guy making 50k conceivably buy on an annual basis?

Most investments by low income folks, I think, are generally in IRAs or 401Ks where they invest in mutual funds, but withdrawals from IRAs and 401ks are taxed as regular income (unless its a Roth IRA)... so you don't get any benefit from cap gains rates there.

That's why lower income people who do invest directly (outside of a pension or 401k) tend to do so via mutual funds or in some cases, buying little bits of individual stocks at a time. To me that sounds more likely than lower income people flipping stocks for a quick profit.

Sharebuilder.com is a decent way to do that since it allows you to purchase fractional shares so even if you only have $100 a month to invest or whatever, you can buy .2326 shares of AAPL or 7.39 shares of F. That's usually impossible with most "traditional" brokers unless you already own stock and are set up for automatic dividend reinvestment.


I was making a point about how LTCG income disproportionately goes to the ~1% (or 5%... whatever). Sure a person with a modest income can accumulate small amounts of shares over time and eventually take advantage of the LTCG rates after years of investing... compared to someone who can buy thousands and thousands of shares (or more commonly gets them as part of their executive compensation package) every single year so that, after the first year has a steady supply of shares he can dump and only pay 15% on the income.
2013-04-12 05:02:54 PM  
1 votes:

Cletus C.: Any word on what Warren Buffett's secretary paid?


Yes.  An effective rate higher than Warren Buffet.
2013-04-12 04:54:57 PM  
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: theknuckler_33: I consider people who think dividend and capital gains income, which disproportionately goes to the wealthiest people in this country, is inherently different from wages made by the little people in the context of paying income taxes to be idiots.

Does that answer your question.

No, not at all. But if you are correct and corporate income is no different from wages then why is corporate income taxed twice?


It's not. Corporate income is taxed once. Personal income is taxed once. Maybe the 'owners' should just actually work for the company and pay themselves a higher salary if they want more money. At least that way it is a deductible expense on the business' balance sheet.

Oh right... working is for THOSE people.
2013-04-12 04:53:28 PM  
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: Christ you people are farking stupid. Capital gains and dividends were already taxed at the corporate level.


Perhaps you shouldn't talk about "stupid" when you are repeating the same untruth that has been explained to you countless times.

No, only dividends were already taxes at the corporate level. Capital gains, like the gains of a stock transaction, are not taxed at the corporate level. The money (outside of public offerings) never is even in the hands of the company. It never gets directly taxed at the corporate level since it never even exists at the corporate level.

How many time does this need to be explained to you? Hey, remember just the other day when you were complaining about "farklibs" who pretend they know about economics and business but don't? And yet here you are, demonstrating once again you don't have the first farking clue about any of these things despite this very topic being explained to you repeatedly using small words so you might one day understand. You are the perfect example of what you decry.
2013-04-12 04:49:12 PM  
1 votes:
I don't know why I'm looking at someone else's tax returns, but for some reason the "Your Occupation: US PRESIDENT  Spouse's occupation: US FIRST LADY" cracks me up.
2013-04-12 04:42:16 PM  
1 votes:

ourbigdumbmouth: They only paid 18%?

Bunch of scammers


gave away 1/4 of their income to charity, which helps
2013-04-12 04:36:09 PM  
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: Philip Francis Queeg: Debeo Summa Credo: Christ you people are farking stupid. Capital gains and dividends were already taxed at the corporate level. So you need to add corporate taxes to Romney's (and Obama's, to the extent any of their income was from such income) to get an appropriate comparison.

Dont bother posting that cartoon that proves my point even though you think it proves yours. Just answer me this: how much of each dollar in pretax corporate income do you believe should end up in the pockets of owners, and how much should be taken by government? Be precise. Throw out a number.

/to the extent Romneys earnings were on carried interest, then that is a different story

Capital gains weren't taxed at the corporate level.

I buy buy stock in DSC Corporate Cocksuckers at $10 a share. Your business is so good that 5 years later I sell it at $100 a share. The income I derive from the increase in the value of the stock never passes through the hands of DSC Corporate Cocksuckers to be taxed.

Sure it is, you idiot. Don't you think the price of the stock reflects the fact that DSCCS has to pay taxes on its earnings?

Or do you assume that all investors are as stupid as you, and don't consider the taxes that will be paid on the company's future great earnings?


Nope. DSC Corporate Cocksuckers stock value could have increased without ever showing a dime in taxable profit. Stock price is not a direct reflection of the company's profit., let alone it's tax bill.

More importantly , the money that changes hands in the stock transaction is entirely independent of the company, and in no way is subject to corporate taxes.

2013-04-12 04:28:00 PM  
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: Christ you people are farking stupid. Capital gains and dividends were already taxed at the corporate level. So you need to add corporate taxes to Romney's (and Obama's, to the extent any of their income was from such income) to get an appropriate comparison.

Dont bother posting that cartoon that proves my point even though you think it proves yours. Just answer me this: how much of each dollar in pretax corporate income do you believe should end up in the pockets of owners, and how much should be taken by government? Be precise. Throw out a number.

/to the extent Romneys earnings were on carried interest, then that is a different story



Let's say 90%. That way the Owners of the Means of Production still get 10% of the profit, which will still give them more money than they deserve.

The government will take their 90% cut, and use it to improve the condition of the people that did the actual work, you know, THE WORKERS.
2013-04-12 04:21:32 PM  
1 votes:

SlothB77: Romney isn't a hypocrite, before he supported low taxes.  Obama is a hypocrite, because he supports tax hikes for the rich.


Man, you tortured that logic like a prisoner in the gulag!
2013-04-12 04:11:22 PM  
1 votes:

Tom_Slick: theknuckler_33: skullkrusher: theknuckler_33: skullkrusher: Tom_Slick: The Obamas paid 18.4% Bidens 22% Romney is probably somewhere in the low teens, it is shiat like this that really pisses me off about the US tax code.  When I was a fresh college grad making $27,500 a year living in a shiatty one bedroom apartment driving a 10 year old beater I was paying over 30% taking advantage of every last loophole and deduction.

that had to include state and local

Yea, and probably SS and medicare too.

I assumed that the Obama number included that

Why? You don't report that on your tax returns, do you?

/haven't filled out my own taxes in a while

Yes you do it is a deduction and yes my figure included SS and State which in GA is just a percentage of your federal but you deduct those withholding on your federal form as well.  What I am saying is it is too complicated to pay your damn taxes.  I am now self employed, run my business through an S-corp and I have to pay an accountant a considerable amount of money to keep me legal and out of trouble with the IRS.  It is too much, you should not need computer programs to file your  taxes, you should not need accounts to file your taxes, HR Block and shady rapid refund loan place (although these may have been banned as I have not heard ads for them lately) should not be a viable business.  The only reason for this is to hide how much the government takes from your check.

For the record I don't mind paying taxes, tax me at whatever percentage the government needs to function, but I should not have to spend 20 hours a quarter to figure out my tax liability. Just tell me, "You made $1000 send the government $250"


it's a real PITA. This is the last year I am doing it myself. I say that every year but I mean it this time. I did a good number of options trades last year and they do not get reported on the standard 1099-B so you have to do all the farking calculations yourself. Can't even download them directly into TurboTax like you can ordinary stock trades because they don't appear in a standardized format. Plus fark the AMT. I wanna find a crooked accountant who will take all the blame for massaging things so I don't have to pay that shiat anymore
2013-04-12 04:01:32 PM  
1 votes:

ManRay: Godamammit so much. When are we going to stop burning calories over who pays what tax rate? The current tax code has so many deductions, exceptions, loopholes, ins and outs that it makes the whole subject useless to discuss without talking about wholesale reform.


Because actions speak louder than words. These people preach about giving back to your country, then they pull this in broad daylight. Their arrogance is just absolutely astounding.

When are we going to wake up and realize we've been bamboozled?
2013-04-12 03:46:35 PM  
1 votes:

skullkrusher: sugardave: skullkrusher: sugardave: Grand_Moff_Joseph: WTF is it with this guy anyway?  Paying a fair tax rate??  Who the heck does he think he is??

See?  Proof all along that he isn't a Real Murkan!  IMPEACH!

*rolleyes*

What, are you trying to deny that there isn't a recently put-forth pretender to the position of POTUS that didn't espouse the view that it's the highest form of patriotic to pay the lowest taxes possible?

no, I'm rolling my eyes at the fact that the two of you are, presumably unwittingly, referring to the Bush tax cuts as a "fair tax rate" for a couple who made over $600k last year.


No, I was just thinking of the percentage number.  I'm still in the hospital (checking out today) with meds coursing through me, so don't expect anything deep from me.
2013-04-12 03:46:24 PM  
1 votes:

theknuckler_33: Why? You don't report that on your tax returns, do you?


No. SS & Medicare taxes do not appear anywhere on a federal income tax return unless you are paying the self-employment tax.
2013-04-12 03:45:23 PM  
1 votes:

skullkrusher: theknuckler_33: skullkrusher: theknuckler_33: skullkrusher: Tom_Slick: The Obamas paid 18.4% Bidens 22% Romney is probably somewhere in the low teens, it is shiat like this that really pisses me off about the US tax code.  When I was a fresh college grad making $27,500 a year living in a shiatty one bedroom apartment driving a 10 year old beater I was paying over 30% taking advantage of every last loophole and deduction.

that had to include state and local

Yea, and probably SS and medicare too.

I assumed that the Obama number included that

Why? You don't report that on your tax returns, do you?

/haven't filled out my own taxes in a while

sure it's on there.


On your 1040? I know its on your W-2, but I didn't think you put that on your 1040 anywhere.
2013-04-12 03:37:24 PM  
1 votes:

Lawyers With Nukes: Oh my Farking God. This dude got $400k to administer a charity?


0/10
2013-04-12 03:34:35 PM  
1 votes:

Tom_Slick: The Obamas paid 18.4% Bidens 22% Romney is probably somewhere in the low teens, it is shiat like this that really pisses me off about the US tax code.  When I was a fresh college grad making $27,500 a year living in a shiatty one bedroom apartment driving a 10 year old beater I was paying over 30% taking advantage of every last loophole and deduction.


you were not farking paying 30% in federal income tax, marginal or effective hth
2013-04-12 03:32:23 PM  
1 votes:

Lawyers With Nukes: Wow, just wow. The hypocrisy of the POTUS & FLOTUS is just too delicious for words.

$608,611 in income....18.4% in taxes. Let that sink in for a while you guys.


well....lookit who we have here.


back to gray 2 with you.
2013-04-12 03:31:53 PM  
1 votes:
The Obamas paid 18.4% Bidens 22% Romney is probably somewhere in the low teens, it is shiat like this that really pisses me off about the US tax code.  When I was a fresh college grad making $27,500 a year living in a shiatty one bedroom apartment driving a 10 year old beater I was paying over 30% taking advantage of every last loophole and deduction.
2013-04-12 03:29:40 PM  
1 votes:
static.guim.co.uk
JOBCREATORSJOBCREATORSJOBCREATORSJOBCREATORSJOBCREATORSJOBCREATORSJOB C REATORSJOBCREATORSJOBCREATORSJOBCREATORSJOBCREATORSJOBCREATORSJOBCREAT ORSJOBCREATORSJOBCREATORSJOBCREATORSJOBCREATORSJOBCREATORSJOBCREATORS
2013-04-12 03:18:36 PM  
1 votes:

s2s2s2: How much writing off is he doing?


47%
2013-04-12 03:18:32 PM  
1 votes:
This just in, if you work for a living, you pay a higher rate than somebody who just shuffles ones and zeroes around a digital marketplace.

/ in before somebody compares idle investing to computer programming
2013-04-12 03:16:38 PM  
1 votes:
But Romney was a Job Creator*.

/*for China
 
Displayed 36 of 36 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report