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(CNN)   This is gonna shock you, but the secularist candidate for the Pakistani parliament was killed by religious nuts   (edition.cnn.com ) divider line
    More: Sad, Parliament of Pakistan, Hakimullah Mehsud, Pakistani, Pakistan, Hyderabad, southern district, TTP, Pakistani Taliban  
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4331 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Apr 2013 at 9:31 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2013-04-12 08:38:45 AM  
I don't see this working out the way that Little Fatty had hoped.
 
2013-04-12 08:44:56 AM  
Republicans intrigued by this new strategy.
 
2013-04-12 09:02:59 AM  

sgnilward: Republicans intrigued by this new strategy.


Paul Wellstone.
 
2013-04-12 09:32:39 AM  
This is why we need to get God back into Pakistani politics.
 
2013-04-12 09:32:43 AM  
In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.
 
2013-04-12 09:33:01 AM  

2wolves: sgnilward: Republicans intrigued by this new strategy.

Paul Wellstone.


Did the RAND corp and Reverse Vampires help with that?
 
2013-04-12 09:33:43 AM  
Because a nation ruled by its religious principles always does well right?

*stares at the evangelical right
 
2013-04-12 09:34:39 AM  
"Candidate Fakhar Ul Islam"

Say that out loud. Sounds a little troll-y right?
 
2013-04-12 09:37:23 AM  
I need to get around to actually reading the Koran.  And so do these nuts.
 
2013-04-12 09:38:24 AM  
As noted in TFA itself, the Taliban has effectively declared war on the institution of democracy itself and anyone involved in it, I don't know that this was because of the secular party thing so much as that they're just targeting anyone with anything to do with elections at this point.
 
2013-04-12 09:40:29 AM  

voodoomedic: "Candidate Fakhar Ul Islam"

Say that out loud. Sounds a little troll-y right?


yeah what's his fark logon?
 
2013-04-12 09:41:00 AM  

Jim_Callahan: As noted in TFA itself, the Taliban has effectively declared war on the institution of democracy itself and anyone involved in it, I don't know that this was because of the secular party thing so much as that they're just targeting anyone with anything to do with elections at this point.


Agreed. This guy was simply victim number one.
 
2013-04-12 09:41:10 AM  
There was only one secularist candidate?  Or is subby an idiot?
 
2013-04-12 09:41:15 AM  
What a bunch of A-holes.  The people with farked up views of their religion all need to get infested with a paralyzing disease... Think how peaceful the world would be with no one angry at other people for not worshipping who they worship.
 
2013-04-12 09:41:41 AM  
Not in before someone has to somehow try to tie this to Christians.
 
2013-04-12 09:41:50 AM  
Only a religious nutjob can stop a religious nutjob

/seriously though, I want all religious zealots and fundamentalists to jump off the highest cliff
//you're hurting the world with your lunacy
 
2013-04-12 09:42:04 AM  
If they like fire and brimstone so much, we might as well send more drones to deliver it. The sooner all these jihadi savages are dead, the sooner the rest of Pakistan and the world can have peace.
 
2013-04-12 09:44:38 AM  

Luminaro: What a bunch of A-holes.  The people with farked up views of their religion all need to get infested with a paralyzing disease... Think how peaceful the world would be with no one angry at other people for not worshipping who they worship.


Yup, it'd be an amazing world if the people you disagree with didn't exist.
 
2013-04-12 09:44:44 AM  
I know there is money to be made in Pakistan, but at what point does the world finally just give up on them like Best Korea? If they want to have a closed country run by fanatics, have at it. Just close the border and cease trade with them.
 
2013-04-12 09:44:48 AM  

the_foo: If they like fire and brimstone so much, we might as well send more drones to deliver it. The sooner all these jihadi savages are dead, the sooner the rest of Pakistan and the world can have peace.


Because nothing says peace like a foreign nation raining death from the skies
 
2013-04-12 09:45:02 AM  
SOAP BOX BALLOT BOX AMMO BOX LIBS

// Bhutto wept
 
2013-04-12 09:46:03 AM  
Isn't Pakistan a democratic country? If so the Taliban just declared war on the government.
 
2013-04-12 09:46:11 AM  

Aarontology: Because nothing says peace like a foreign nation raining death from the skies


Bringing peace to the world, 18 pounds of semtex at a time!
 
2013-04-12 09:47:51 AM  

Luminaro: What a bunch of A-holes.  The people with farked up majority views of their religion all need to get infested with a paralyzing disease... Think how peaceful the world would be with no one angry at other people for not worshipping who they worship.


Islam is awsome
 
2013-04-12 09:48:59 AM  

balfourk: Isn't Pakistan a democratic country? If so the Taliban just declared war on the government.


"Just"?  You haven't been following the news, have you?
 
2013-04-12 09:49:14 AM  
"We are not in favor of democracy, democracy is for Jews and Christians"

So, since Abu Bakr was elected, was he a Jew or a Christian?
 
2013-04-12 09:49:39 AM  

Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.


FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.
 
2013-04-12 09:50:18 AM  

Dick Gozinya: I know there is money to be made in Pakistan, but at what point does the world finally just give up on them like Best Korea? If they want to have a closed country run by fanatics, have at it. Just close the border and cease trade with them.


Like they did to South Africa durring apartheid. Wonder if even that would have happened is SA was islamic.
 
2013-04-12 09:50:59 AM  

Joe Blowme: Luminaro: What a bunch of A-holes.  The people with farked up majority views of their religion all need to get infested with a paralyzing disease... Think how peaceful the world would be with no one angry at other people for not worshipping who they worship.

Islam is awsome


Taliban is not Islam they are an extremist faction. Try not generalize, it makes you look stupid (especially with spelling errors)
 
2013-04-12 09:52:31 AM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Because a nation ruled by its religious principles always does well right?

*stares at the evangelical right


In 1950 it was possible to load up with enough firearms and ammunition, purchased by mail order (without a background check) to repeat any mass murder committed in the 20 years.

Yet people didn't do it.  Back then, going to church on Sunday or synagog on Saturday was considered something you just did--it was expected and the vast majority of Americans worshiped God, put out religious displays on government property, and were not ambivalent about it.

Tell me more about how far we have progressed culturally as a nation since, given increased the increased secularization of society.
 
2013-04-12 09:52:35 AM  
As i understand it, Pakistan is acutally run by two groups: the government and the military. The government is full of whack jobs and the military has control of their nukes. And we like it that way because if the whackjobs in the government had the nukes too, they would make Lil Kim in Best Korea seem stable and well grounded by comparison.
 
2013-04-12 09:54:44 AM  
maddawggmanifesto.info
 
2013-04-12 09:57:46 AM  

hdhale: Tell me more about how far we have progressed culturally as a nation since, given increased the increased secularization of society.


Everyone loves to blame culture and secularization for violence in the nation but the truth may be it actually came from a far more simpler thing.

Lead. As lead levels have decreased in the last 30 years so to have we seen a steady decline in violence and crime, with the largest swing being generational after the removal of lead from fuel for autos. So the reality may be that culture has nothing to do with the amount of violence we have as that has seen a steady decline, even shootings (although remaining steady as a percentage of violent crime), and that Nixon's legacy may go down as one of the great presidents, having presided over the creation of the EPA.
 
2013-04-12 10:00:55 AM  
These people wipe with their bare hands and throw acid in the faces of their women.
Are you surprised?
 
2013-04-12 10:01:49 AM  

monoski: Joe Blowme: Luminaro: What a bunch of A-holes.  The people with farked up majority views of their religion all need to get infested with a paralyzing disease... Think how peaceful the world would be with no one angry at other people for not worshipping who they worship.

Islam is awsome

Taliban is not Islam they are an extremist faction. Try not generalize, it makes you look stupid (especially with spelling errors)


Wow, you just have no clue about islam. Know how i know you have never been to an islamic run country or read the koran?

US muslims are the most "moderate" yet " 25% of US Muslims under 30 support suicide bombings in some capacity".
 
2013-04-12 10:01:55 AM  

hdhale: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Because a nation ruled by its religious principles always does well right?

*stares at the evangelical right

In 1950 it was possible to load up with enough firearms and ammunition, purchased by mail order (without a background check) to repeat any mass murder committed in the 20 years.

Yet people didn't do it.  Back then, going to church on Sunday or synagog on Saturday was considered something you just did--it was expected and the vast majority of Americans worshiped God, put out religious displays on government property, and were not ambivalent about it.

Tell me more about how far we have progressed culturally as a nation since, given increased the increased secularization of society.


Yeah, back then people just made sure women, negroes and homos knew their place and placed their unflinching trust in the government to protect them from the red menace.

What a golden age!
 
2013-04-12 10:02:43 AM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Lead. As lead levels have decreased in the last 30 years so to have we seen a steady decline in violence and crime, with the largest swing being generational after the removal of lead from fuel for autos. So the reality may be that culture has nothing to do with the amount of violence we have as that has seen a steady decline, even shootings (although remaining steady as a percentage of violent crime), and that Nixon's legacy may go down as one of the great presidents, having presided over the creation of the EPA.


Thank God you can always go to a NASCAR race to get recharged.
 
2013-04-12 10:02:49 AM  
Well in all fairness I'm sure there was quite a few theocratic canidates offed by Comrades Stalin and Mao.
 
2013-04-12 10:04:22 AM  
I must confess, I have never understood the idea that removing a facet of human culture (like religion) could bring about peace or utopia.  Humanity is flawed to it's very core, and civilization has mostly been the story of us trying desperately to succeed despite ourselves.  Religion can cause us to ignore logic and reason, but it is hardly the only thing.  Blaming the ills of the world on religion smacks of tribal thinking by itself.  Perhaps I'm missing some perspective to see what others see.

My apologies for a bit of a rant, but this has always irritated me.
 
2013-04-12 10:04:30 AM  

hdhale: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Because a nation ruled by its religious principles always does well right?

*stares at the evangelical right

In 1950 it was possible to load up with enough firearms and ammunition, purchased by mail order (without a background check) to repeat any mass murder committed in the 20 years.

Yet people didn't do it.  Back then, going to church on Sunday or synagog on Saturday was considered something you just did--it was expected and the vast majority of Americans worshiped God, put out religious displays on government property, and were not ambivalent about it.

Tell me more about how far we have progressed culturally as a nation since, given increased the increased secularization of society.


If you look at per capita stats, crime in the U.S. has been steadily dropping for the last 20 years.
 
2013-04-12 10:06:41 AM  
This wasn't in South Carolina?  Now I am shocked.
 
2013-04-12 10:08:02 AM  

Oldiron_79: Well in all fairness I'm sure there was quite a few theocratic canidates offed by Comrades Stalin and Mao.


I doubt it. Religious leaders? Yes, I'm sure there were lots, but candidates for political positions who wanted to create a theocratic government? Highly doubtful.
 
2013-04-12 10:08:07 AM  

hdhale: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Because a nation ruled by its religious principles always does well right?

*stares at the evangelical right

In 1950 it was possible to load up with enough firearms and ammunition, purchased by mail order (without a background check) to repeat any mass murder committed in the 20 years.

Yet people didn't do it.  Back then, going to church on Sunday or synagog on Saturday was considered something you just did--it was expected and the vast majority of Americans worshiped God, put out religious displays on government property, and were not ambivalent about it.

Tell me more about how far we have progressed culturally as a nation since, given increased the increased secularization of society.


Your argument is a bit muddy.  Are you suggesting that religious belief was a factor that made people less violent?  Or that God himself protected the nation from lunatics because people were more "pious"?  Please clarify!
 
xcv
2013-04-12 10:09:22 AM  
Imagine how it feels for some devout, pray-5x-daily, sharia-law-loving, apostate-killing politician to wake up today and realize he is now the most 'secularist' Pakistani politician simply by means of elimination; and therefore the next target on everybody's shiat list.
 
2013-04-12 10:10:10 AM  

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.


I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.
 
2013-04-12 10:13:14 AM  

hdhale: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Because a nation ruled by its religious principles always does well right?

*stares at the evangelical right

In 1950 it was possible to load up with enough firearms and ammunition, purchased by mail order (without a background check) to repeat any mass murder committed in the 20 years.

Yet people didn't do it.  Back then, going to church on Sunday or synagog on Saturday was considered something you just did--it was expected and the vast majority of Americans worshiped God, put out religious displays on government property, and were not ambivalent about it.

Tell me more about how far we have progressed culturally as a nation since, given increased the increased secularization of society.


We don't a have draft anymore. Yes, we have draft registration. Yes we did just enlarge the combat pool to include women. So we might just have a draft and then have a "take up the white man's burden--Jesus told us to kill more brown savages" war. But hasn't happened yet.

The scary thing is in WWI the UK raised the conscription age to 51. Looks like the Boomers pulled a fast one on our next global oil war.

/If you want to read about Japanese expansion in WWII, read about the British hiring the Japanese to take the port of Tsingtao from the Germans during WWI. That's why Tsingtao makes beer--ze Germans.
/Tsingtao was the home port for most of the German Imperial Navy that was not bottled up by the British Navy. If the Brits could take Tsingtao they could force the German ships out and sink them. But the Brits didn't have the man power for global war so they hired the Japanese. Or used over 1 million Indians. Or countless Africans.
 
2013-04-12 10:13:20 AM  
The central tenet of Islam sure seems to be "death to the infidels". Religion of peace my ass.
 
2013-04-12 10:13:26 AM  

Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.


Yeah, criticizing a stone-age religion and how it's negatively affecting billions of people sure is idiotic.
 
2013-04-12 10:13:53 AM  

Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.


Go spend a couple weeks in an Islamic republic, perhaps Yemen, and report back on your experiences with everyday, good old boy, non-radical Muslims. We'll wait...
 
2013-04-12 10:15:00 AM  

Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.


erbsegoesmmo.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-12 10:15:39 AM  

macadamnut: Thank God you can always go to a NASCAR race to get recharged.


Well you used to anyway, they switched to unleaded a few years back, and Formula racing has been lead free since the mid 90's.

I think dragsters still use forms of leaded fuel though.
 
2013-04-12 10:18:18 AM  
...So kick the Jews out of Occupied Palestine!
 
2013-04-12 10:19:28 AM  

macadamnut: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Lead. As lead levels have decreased in the last 30 years so to have we seen a steady decline in violence and crime, with the largest swing being generational after the removal of lead from fuel for autos. So the reality may be that culture has nothing to do with the amount of violence we have as that has seen a steady decline, even shootings (although remaining steady as a percentage of violent crime), and that Nixon's legacy may go down as one of the great presidents, having presided over the creation of the EPA.

Thank God you can always go to a NASCAR race to get recharged.


Alas, no longer. For the past several years NASCAR has used Sunoco 260 GTX un-leaded racing fuel in all its series.
 
2013-04-12 10:23:30 AM  

Kriggerel: ...So kick the Jews out of Occupied Palestine!


Exactly!  And don't forget the Christians & Democracy too!  Their only intent is to divide the Muslims (Shia/Sunni?) and prevent Sharia law (which imam's version?)

FTA:
"We are not in favor of democracy, democracy is for Jews and Christians" he said in recent propaganda video.

"They are intended to divide Muslims, we want the implementation of Sharia [law] and for that jihad is necessary," he added.



/Oh Jihad... what aren't you an answer to?

//Is there cream in my coffee?

///NO?!?!  YA-lalalalal!  JIHAD!
 
2013-04-12 10:25:32 AM  

hdhale: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Because a nation ruled by its religious principles always does well right?

*stares at the evangelical right

In 1950 it was possible to load up with enough firearms and ammunition, purchased by mail order (without a background check) to repeat any mass murder committed in the 20 years.

Yet people didn't do it.  Back then, going to church on Sunday or synagog on Saturday was considered something you just did--it was expected and the vast majority of Americans worshiped God, put out religious displays on government property, and were not ambivalent about it.

Tell me more about how far we have progressed culturally as a nation since, given increased the increased secularization of society.


Why tell you when I can show you?
thepublicintellectual.org
I know I'm feeding the troll here, but I figured it's nice to put things into context.
Do I also need to point out that there are other countries which are far more secular than the U.S. that have lower crime rates?
 
2013-04-12 10:27:05 AM  

Joe Blowme: monoski: Joe Blowme: Luminaro: What a bunch of A-holes.  The people with farked up majority views of their religion all need to get infested with a paralyzing disease... Think how peaceful the world would be with no one angry at other people for not worshipping who they worship.

Islam is awsome

Taliban is not Islam they are an extremist faction. Try not generalize, it makes you look stupid (especially with spelling errors)

Wow, you just have no clue about islam. Know how i know you have never been to an islamic run country or read the koran?

US muslims are the most "moderate" yet " 25% of US Muslims under 30 support suicide bombings in some capacity".


I'm not supporting suicide bombing in any capacity, but growing up, the most noble sacrifice portrayed in military media was participation in the suicide mission.

So generally, the vast majority of Americans probably support suicide missions, as long as they agree with the objective.
 
2013-04-12 10:28:27 AM  

Kriggerel: ...So kick the Jews out of Occupied Palestine Land they occupied since 1500bc?

FTFY

 
2013-04-12 10:31:23 AM  

Tiber727: Why tell you when I can show you?


I was looking for that, and got pulled away, but that exactly shows it.

People only think we're more violent because of our now interconnected nature of the 24/7 news cycle and internet. You just hear about shiat that normally not even a decade ago, would have only been local or regional news.
 
2013-04-12 10:31:35 AM  

Joe Blowme: Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.

[erbsegoesmmo.files.wordpress.com image 750x600]


This is called projection.
 
2013-04-12 10:31:44 AM  

Moopy Mac: Joe Blowme: monoski: Joe Blowme: Luminaro: What a bunch of A-holes.  The people with farked up majority views of their religion all need to get infested with a paralyzing disease... Think how peaceful the world would be with no one angry at other people for not worshipping who they worship.

Islam is awsome

Taliban is not Islam they are an extremist faction. Try not generalize, it makes you look stupid (especially with spelling errors)

Wow, you just have no clue about islam. Know how i know you have never been to an islamic run country or read the koran?

US muslims are the most "moderate" yet " 25% of US Muslims under 30 support suicide bombings in some capacity".

I'm not supporting suicide bombing in any capacity, but growing up, the most noble sacrifice portrayed in military media was participation in the suicide mission.

So generally, the vast majority of Americans probably support suicide missions, as long as they agree with the objective.


Not what you are talking about, but thanks for trying to equate the 2
 
2013-04-12 10:32:51 AM  

Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.

[erbsegoesmmo.files.wordpress.com image 750x600]

This is called projection.


This is called willfully ignorant

/tolerance of evil is a crime
 
2013-04-12 10:35:06 AM  
hay guize is this the "there is no such thing as a moderate muslim" thread

/sorry my heart's not in it today
 
2013-04-12 10:37:32 AM  
I don't understand all the violence. I know they allow prayer in school. In fact I believe it is mandatory. I just don't get it. A real head scratcher.
 
Ant
2013-04-12 10:38:27 AM  

DubtodaIll: I need to get around to actually reading the Koran.  And so do these nuts.


Don't claim it's not in there until you've read it. There's nasty shiat in the bible too. Luckily, secularized Christians and Muslims ignore a lot of their respective holy books.
 
2013-04-12 10:40:53 AM  

evoke: Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.

Yeah, criticizing a stone-age religion and how it's negatively affecting billions of people sure is idiotic.


That would be Middle age actually.  If you were trying to make a point that the older a religion is, the more inferior it is, then clearly Islam is superior to Christianity.
 
2013-04-12 10:41:27 AM  

Joe Blowme: Moopy Mac: Joe Blowme: monoski: Joe Blowme: Luminaro: What a bunch of A-holes.  The people with farked up majority views of their religion all need to get infested with a paralyzing disease... Think how peaceful the world would be with no one angry at other people for not worshipping who they worship.

Islam is awsome

Taliban is not Islam they are an extremist faction. Try not generalize, it makes you look stupid (especially with spelling errors)

Wow, you just have no clue about islam. Know how i know you have never been to an islamic run country or read the koran?

US muslims are the most "moderate" yet " 25% of US Muslims under 30 support suicide bombings in some capacity".

I'm not supporting suicide bombing in any capacity, but growing up, the most noble sacrifice portrayed in military media was participation in the suicide mission.

So generally, the vast majority of Americans probably support suicide missions, as long as they agree with the objective.

Not what you are talking about, but thanks for trying to equate the 2


The Valkyrie plot to assassinate Hitler was a suicide-bomb plot. I think many people could approve of that mission.
 
2013-04-12 10:41:49 AM  

phrawgh: Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.

Go spend a couple weeks in an Islamic republic, perhaps Yemen, and report back on your experiences with everyday, good old boy, non-radical Muslims. We'll wait...


Some Muslims are bad, therefore all Muslims are bad.

Some Christians are bad, therefore all Christians are bad.
 
2013-04-12 10:42:12 AM  

phrawgh: I don't understand all the violence. I know they allow prayer in school. In fact I believe it is mandatory. I just don't get it. A real head scratcher.


It's all the kneeling. Leg cramps make them irritable.
 
Ant
2013-04-12 10:42:57 AM  

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.


That.

Islam sucks. Christianity sucks too, but in a slightly less violent way.

/Yes, I know about Uganda and the LRA
 
2013-04-12 10:44:57 AM  

Ant: DubtodaIll: I need to get around to actually reading the Koran.  And so do these nuts.

Don't claim it's not in there until you've read it. There's nasty shiat in the bible too. Luckily, secularized Christians and Muslims ignore a lot of their respective holy books.


But it is the inerrant word of God! If they are going to ignore large swaths of it, why bother? I'm pretty sure God's word isn't meant to be ala carte. At least the radical fundamentalists are trying to live by the owners manual.
 
2013-04-12 10:45:03 AM  

Ant: DubtodaIll: I need to get around to actually reading the Koran.  And so do these nuts.

Don't claim it's not in there until you've read it. There's nasty shiat in the bible too. Luckily, secularized Christians and Muslims ignore a lot of their respective holy books.


For some reason there seems to be a lot more secular Christians than Muslims.

You know... practically speaking.
Where are the secular, down the middle of the road, lets all get along Muslims?  It's a big religion... but Christians tend to hold the state (democracy, gov't, etc.) as a more secular institution than Muslims do with a religion over government approach as with Sharia law.
 
2013-04-12 10:45:05 AM  

Joe Blowme: Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.

[erbsegoesmmo.files.wordpress.com image 750x600]

This is called projection.

This is called willfully ignorant

/tolerance of evil is a crime


Of what am I being willfully ignorant?  Try to avoid circular reasoning, ie Islam is bad because Islam is bad.
 
2013-04-12 10:47:26 AM  

Moopy Mac: I'm not supporting suicide bombing in any capacity, but growing up, the most noble sacrifice portrayed in military media was participation in the suicide mission.

So generally, the vast majority of Americans probably support suicide missions, as long as they agree with the objective.



You may want to ask those Americans if they support civilians carrying out "suicide missions" in crowded markets and churches. You may find that their answers differ.
 
2013-04-12 10:48:11 AM  

Ant: DubtodaIll: I need to get around to actually reading the Koran.  And so do these nuts.

Don't claim it's not in there until you've read it. There's nasty shiat in the bible too. Luckily, secularized Christians and Muslims ignore a lot of their respective holy books.


Well I've read the Bible and most of the Bhagavad Gita and while they contain passages that can be easily used out of context, if you take the works as a whole the take away, for me at least, is pretty much be a good person and the Deity will like you a whole lot and bless your life etc..  Acts of violence are generally only carried out by only from direct decree from the Deity.  And I suppose if you're nutty enough to hear the Deity these days then I can be surprised when you do nutty things.
However, when you gain enough literacy to read and comprehend an entire book, and a major religious text at that, that whole "I'm gunna kill you 'cause you don't think like I do" thing kinda fades away from your personality.
 
2013-04-12 10:49:50 AM  

hdhale: In 1950 it was possible to load up with enough firearms and ammunition, purchased by mail order (without a background check) to repeat any mass murder committed in the 20 years.

Yet people didn't do it. Back then, going to church on Sunday or synagog on Saturday was considered something you just did--it was expected and the vast majority of Americans worshiped God, put out religious displays on government property, and were not ambivalent about it.


Because it was a lot more fun to blow up schools...
Andrew Kehoe...hipster ... A Tea Partier before the Tea Party was cool...
 
2013-04-12 10:50:35 AM  

Carn: If you were trying to make a point that the older a religion is, the more inferior it is, then clearly Islam is superior to Christianity.



Buddhism must really suck ass, then!

But no, only you were trying to make that point
 
2013-04-12 10:51:22 AM  

Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.

[erbsegoesmmo.files.wordpress.com image 750x600]

This is called projection.

This is called willfully ignorant

/tolerance of evil is a crime

Of what am I being willfully ignorant?  Try to avoid circular reasoning, ie Islam is bad because Islam is bad.


With you i will have to avoid all reasoning, you are being obtuse and either know it (trolling me) or believe it (dhimmi or fullblow member of the death cult)

/i know, i know, you saw on the internets right? Everything on the internet is true
 
2013-04-12 10:51:44 AM  

Tiber727: hdhale: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Because a nation ruled by its religious principles always does well right?


Why tell you when I can show you?
[thepublicintellectual.org image 707x558]
I know I'm feeding the troll here, but I figured it's nice to put things into context.
Do I also need to point out that there are other countries which are far more secular than the U.S. that have lower crime rates?


What happened in 1970 to spike the murder rate like that, and what happened at the end of the 90s to drop it so dramatically?

Actually, I think a better question is what happened after WWII to cause that massive dip?  Postwar prosperity?  Having a house in the suburbs with a car and a white picket fence suppressed the urge to blow the neighbours away?  And then when things went to shiat in the 70s, everyone went nuts again?

Given the massive wealth inequality today, can we expect the recent downward trend to sharply reverse?
 
2013-04-12 10:52:30 AM  

give me doughnuts: Carn: If you were trying to make a point that the older a religion is, the more inferior it is, then clearly Islam is superior to Christianity.


Buddhism must really suck ass, then!

But no, only you were trying to make that point


No, I wasn't.  I was pointing out that he had both mis-categorized Islam as being a stone age religion, which it isn't, but if his point were that older religions are bad, then he's shiatting on the wrong one.  Try to keep up.
 
2013-04-12 10:52:54 AM  

Dr Dreidel: The Valkyrie plot to assassinate Hitler was a suicide-bomb plot. I think many people could approve of that mission.


Uh, no it wasn't. It was a non-suicide bomb plot that the participants anticipated not only surviving, but taking control of Germany to sue for peace, as well.
 
2013-04-12 10:53:44 AM  

Carn: give me doughnuts: Carn: If you were trying to make a point that the older a religion is, the more inferior it is, then clearly Islam is superior to Christianity.


Buddhism must really suck ass, then!

But no, only you were trying to make that point

No, I wasn't.  I was pointing out that he had both mis-categorized Islam as being a stone age religion, which it isn't, but if his point were that older religions are bad, then he's shiatting on the wrong one.  Try to keep up.


It wasn't his point. Only you were trying to raise that distinction.
As you said: Try to keep up.
 
Ant
2013-04-12 10:55:05 AM  

Theeng: I must confess, I have never understood the idea that removing a facet of human culture (like religion) could bring about peace or utopia.  Humanity is flawed to it's very core, and civilization has mostly been the story of us trying desperately to succeed despite ourselves.  Religion can cause us to ignore logic and reason, but it is hardly the only thing.  Blaming the ills of the world on religion smacks of tribal thinking by itself.  Perhaps I'm missing some perspective to see what others see.

My apologies for a bit of a rant, but this has always irritated me.


Yes, human beings would be assholes to each other, and often are, even without religion; it's in our nature. Religion just gives you one more reason to hate each other. And as a bonus, it offers up ready-made justifications for your hatred of others. That, coupled with it's endorsement of belief without proof (and sometimes in spite of proof) makes it a wonderful tool for amplifying the asshole tendencies in all of us.

/If you've managed to follow the good parts of your religion, while ignoring the bad, good for you. Just know that someone else has done the exact opposite with the same holy book.
 
2013-04-12 10:55:18 AM  

Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.


Well, I'm Christian, but I don't think I've ever been accused of being wholesome.  What do I get to righteously denounce?
 
2013-04-12 10:55:54 AM  
Honestly, I'm somewhat surprised Pakistan is still more or less a coherent county.
 
Ant
2013-04-12 10:58:10 AM  

DubtodaIll: And I suppose if you're nutty enough to hear the Deity these days then I can be surprised when you do nutty things.


If you believe in a deity, how can you possibly come to the conclusion that someone who claims to be hearing from it is nutty? Do you believe or not?
 
2013-04-12 10:58:16 AM  

maddogdelta: hdhale: In 1950 it was possible to load up with enough firearms and ammunition, purchased by mail order (without a background check) to repeat any mass murder committed in the 20 years.

Yet people didn't do it. Back then, going to church on Sunday or synagog on Saturday was considered something you just did--it was expected and the vast majority of Americans worshiped God, put out religious displays on government property, and were not ambivalent about it.

Because it was a lot more fun to blow up schools...
Andrew Kehoe...hipster ... A Tea Partier before the Tea Party was cool...


I think you just ripped open the space-time continuum with an insult to a suicidal crazy murderer as BOTH a hipster AND a Tea-Partier!

I am amazed at your venom spewing!
At least today it came with an informative link.
 
2013-04-12 10:58:58 AM  

Joe Blowme: Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.

[erbsegoesmmo.files.wordpress.com image 750x600]

This is called projection.

This is called willfully ignorant

/tolerance of evil is a crime

Of what am I being willfully ignorant?  Try to avoid circular reasoning, ie Islam is bad because Islam is bad.

With you i will have to avoid all reasoning, you are being obtuse and either know it (trolling me) or believe it (dhimmi or fullblow member of the death cult)

/i know, i know, you saw on the internets right? Everything on the internet is true


I'm an atheist, and I'm not trolling nor being obtuse.  I await your well crafted logical argument as to why Islam as a whole is bad.  Keep in mind however, I've been dropping hints in this to the fact that most specious arguments supporting this conclusion can be used logically to "prove" that any religion is bad.  If some bad Muslims make the whole religion bad, then some bad Christians make all of Christianity bad.  I'm guessing the latter is your religion of choice, so perhaps a bit more scrutiny is required.
 
2013-04-12 10:59:16 AM  

Stone Meadow: Dr Dreidel: The Valkyrie plot to assassinate Hitler was a suicide-bomb plot. I think many people could approve of that mission.

Uh, no it wasn't. It was a non-suicide bomb plot that the participants anticipated not only surviving, but taking control of Germany to sue for peace, as well.


Then Hollywood lied to me.

// also, I guess I should read things rather than assume I know what I'm talking about
// anyway, back to the wall...
 
2013-04-12 11:00:20 AM  

maddogdelta: hdhale: In 1950 it was possible to load up with enough firearms and ammunition, purchased by mail order (without a background check) to repeat any mass murder committed in the 20 years.

Yet people didn't do it. Back then, going to church on Sunday or synagog on Saturday was considered something you just did--it was expected and the vast majority of Americans worshiped God, put out religious displays on government property, and were not ambivalent about it.

Because it was a lot more fun to blow up schools...
Andrew Kehoe...hipster ... A Tea Partier democrat before the Tea Democratic

  Party was cool...

ftfy
 
2013-04-12 11:01:26 AM  
Fark this pig ignorant religion. Yeah, I said it. No, not all Muslims are evil, but Islam is evil, and a Muslim can only be decent to the extent that he doesn't take his religion literally and/or seriously.

"Fundamentalist Islam is only a threat because the fundamentals of Islam are a threat." -Richard Dawkins
 
Ant
2013-04-12 11:01:30 AM  

DubtodaIll: Well I've read the Bible and most of the Bhagavad Gita and while they contain passages that can be easily used out of context


Also, by what standard do you judge these passages to be read out of context? If human beings are imperfect, why would an omnipotent deity write/dictate something that needed to be interpreted by imperfect beings?
 
2013-04-12 11:01:39 AM  

Ant: DubtodaIll: And I suppose if you're nutty enough to hear the Deity these days then I can be surprised when you do nutty things.

If you believe in a deity, how can you possibly come to the conclusion that someone who claims to be hearing from it is nutty? Do you believe or not?


It's not nuts to believe in something greater than yourself.  It's not nuts to recognize that living by the tenants of a major religion help to make you a successful individual. It is nuts to claim you actually hear that force speaking to your in your language just to you and only you can hear it.
 
2013-04-12 11:01:45 AM  

Theeng: Luminaro: What a bunch of A-holes.  The people with farked up views of their religion all need to get infested with a paralyzing disease... Think how peaceful the world would be with no one angry at other people for not worshipping who they worship.

Yup, it'd be an amazing world if the people you disagree with didn't exist want to kill you because of those disagreements.


There. Isn't that better?
 
2013-04-12 11:02:23 AM  
Now it's come to this
Like we're back in the dark ages
From the Middle East to the Middle West
It's a plague that resists all science
 
2013-04-12 11:03:44 AM  

hdhale: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Because a nation ruled by its religious principles always does well right?

*stares at the evangelical right

In 1950 it was possible to load up with enough firearms and ammunition, purchased by mail order (without a background check) to repeat any mass murder committed in the 20 years.

Yet people didn't do it.  Back then, going to church on Sunday or synagog on Saturday was considered something you just did--it was expected and the vast majority of Americans worshiped God, put out religious displays on government property, and were not ambivalent about it.

Tell me more about how far we have progressed culturally as a nation since, given increased the increased secularization of society.


Talk to me about poverty rates, wealth gaps, and school bullying in 1950 and the present before you choose your causation.
 
2013-04-12 11:05:24 AM  

Ant: /If you've managed to follow the good parts of your religion, while ignoring the bad, good for you. Just know that someone else has done the exact opposite with the same holy book.


In my opinion, even if some religious people have been guilty of waging unfair wars against other nations, it would not be very prudent to criticize religion for their incorrect and unjust actions.

Just as it would not be very prudent to criticize the concept of nationalism merely because people like Hitler exploited the nationalistic spirit of the common man, in the same manner it does not seem fair to criticize religion for any imbalanced behavior of the religious people.

From a purely Islamic perspective, I consider religion to be a source of peace because even the wars that Islam prescribes its followers to fight are for the specific purpose of securing peace and justice.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Moiz Amjad
November 3, 2001
 
2013-04-12 11:05:51 AM  

NostroZ: At least today it came with an informative link.


Which you didn't bother reading.

And maybe someone needs a [joke] tag to get the  "I was into ____ before ___ was cool" joke.

but feel free to take my point that killing children in at school is not a particularly new invention and read it as some kind of rant.

but since you seem to want it....

I really hate people who kill children. I really hate other people who kill in the name of religion.  And those people who do both are real assholes.  I really hate them!


there you go. enough venom for you?
 
2013-04-12 11:07:14 AM  

give me doughnuts: Carn: give me doughnuts: Carn: If you were trying to make a point that the older a religion is, the more inferior it is, then clearly Islam is superior to Christianity.


Buddhism must really suck ass, then!

But no, only you were trying to make that point

No, I wasn't.  I was pointing out that he had both mis-categorized Islam as being a stone age religion, which it isn't, but if his point were that older religions are bad, then he's shiatting on the wrong one.  Try to keep up.

It wasn't his point. Only you were trying to raise that distinction.
As you said: Try to keep up.


His point was, it's a stone age religion and therefore bad.  Taken literally, that is incorrect, as I pointed out.  Taken abstractly, it is incorrect, as I pointed out.  Taken figuratively, (as in, old, archaic, backwards, etc.) it is on par with Christianity whose holy book advocates stoning people and all sorts of other wonderful acts of violence.  So, pretty much wrong for any interpretation.
 
Ant
2013-04-12 11:09:08 AM  

DubtodaIll: Ant: DubtodaIll: And I suppose if you're nutty enough to hear the Deity these days then I can be surprised when you do nutty things.

If you believe in a deity, how can you possibly come to the conclusion that someone who claims to be hearing from it is nutty? Do you believe or not?

It's not nuts to believe in something greater than yourself.  It's not nuts to recognize that living by the tenants of a major religion help to make you a successful individual. It is nuts to claim you actually hear that force speaking to your in your language just to you and only you can hear it.


I'm glad that you think that Abraham was insane when he tried to kill Issac. Am I the only one here who thinks that all the people who see this story as a positive message are freaking crazy?
 
2013-04-12 11:11:01 AM  

ciberido: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

Well, I'm Christian, but I don't think I've ever been accused of being wholesome.  What do I get to righteously denounce?


You can denounce the lack of Bacchanalia celebrations in modern society..
 
2013-04-12 11:12:33 AM  

Ant: DubtodaIll: Ant: DubtodaIll: And I suppose if you're nutty enough to hear the Deity these days then I can be surprised when you do nutty things.

If you believe in a deity, how can you possibly come to the conclusion that someone who claims to be hearing from it is nutty? Do you believe or not?

It's not nuts to believe in something greater than yourself.  It's not nuts to recognize that living by the tenants of a major religion help to make you a successful individual. It is nuts to claim you actually hear that force speaking to your in your language just to you and only you can hear it.

I'm glad that you think that Abraham was insane when he tried to kill Issac. Am I the only one here who thinks that all the people who see this story as a positive message are freaking crazy?


"I didn't actually mean it, I just wanted to see if you would!  Here, kill this defenseless animal instead, for I demand blood."

The correct response to that is to shop around for a new deity that doesn't play mind games.
 
2013-04-12 11:13:14 AM  

hdhale: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Because a nation ruled by its religious principles always does well right?

*stares at the evangelical right

In 1950 it was possible to load up with enough firearms and ammunition, purchased by mail order (without a background check) to repeat any mass murder committed in the 20 years.

Yet people didn't do it.  Back then, going to church on Sunday or synagog on Saturday was considered something you just did--it was expected and the vast majority of Americans worshiped God, put out religious displays on government property, and were not ambivalent about it.

Tell me more about how far we have progressed culturally as a nation since, given increased the increased secularization of society.


I suggest that you look at overall trends in homicide rates, instead of cherry-picking the 1950's as your reference (http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2011/06/long-term-t re nd-in-homicide-rates.html - note: these trends are matched in Europe, based on other data I've seen). The current rates are nearly an order of magnitude smaller than they were during more religious time periods.

Young men commit these horrific crimes. The 1950's had a much lower proportion of these young men.
Each decade from 1920 to 1940, the US Census reported that 18% of the population was between 15-24 years old. In 1950, it was 15%, and in 1960 it was 13% (see "population by age" at http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/hist_stats.html). Keep in mind that this drop was much, much larger among males than females.

There are a lot of effects of this type of massive demographic change. The most obvious one is that there are fewer young men to commit the crimes. A less obvious one is that employment is more readily available for the jobs that this demographic tend to look for. Both of these factors tend to drastically reduce the reported murder rate.

The overall homicide rate today is fairly close to the average homicide rate in the 1950s, and we've accomplished this without having to kill off an entire generation of young men to do it.

Your theory that increasing secularization causes (supposedly) higher homicide rates is not supported by the data.
 
2013-04-12 11:13:26 AM  

Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.

[erbsegoesmmo.files.wordpress.com image 750x600]

This is called projection.

This is called willfully ignorant

/tolerance of evil is a crime

Of what am I being willfully ignorant?  Try to avoid circular reasoning, ie Islam is bad because Islam is bad.

With you i will have to avoid all reasoning, you are being obtuse and either know it (trolling me) or believe it (dhimmi or fullblow member of the death cult)

/i know, i know, you saw on the internets right? Everything on the internet is true

I'm an atheist, and I'm not trolling nor being obtuse.  I await your well crafted logical argument as to why Islam as a whole is bad.  Keep in mind however, I've been dropping hints in this to the fact that most specious arguments supporting this conclusion can be used logically to "prove" that any religion is bad.  If some bad Muslims make the whole religion bad, then some bad Christians make all of Christianity bad.  I'm guessing the latter is your religion of choice, so perhaps a bit more scrutiny is required.


I dont have to craft a logical argument when reality does it for me. Educate yourself, get out of your moms basement and look arround at the world. Action speak louder than words so just view their actions and then i guess come to your own conclusion. Try taking 1 religion at a time and see how they behave and treat others instead of trying the "BUT MOMMY BILLY DID IT TOO!!" to try and justify current stupidity with historic stupidity. Your "some bad muslims" is like saying "some bad nazis"
 
Ant
2013-04-12 11:14:47 AM  

NostroZ: Just as it would not be very prudent to criticize the concept of nationalism


Nationalism is silly.

I'm immensely proud of the geographic region in which I happened to be born! My birthplace geographic region, right or wrong!
 
2013-04-12 11:16:05 AM  

Luminaro: What a bunch of A-holes.  The people with farked up views of their religion all need to get infested with a paralyzing disease... Think how peaceful the world would be with no one angry at other people for not worshipping who they worship.


Have you been to The South?
 
2013-04-12 11:16:33 AM  

maddogdelta: I really hate people who kill children. I really hate other people who kill in the name of religion. And those people who do both are real assholes. I really hate them!


there you go. enough venom for you?


I don't see how you're hate is helping anything... or anyone.
 
2013-04-12 11:18:36 AM  

Bondith: I'm glad that you think that Abraham was insane when he tried to kill Issac. Am I the only one here who thinks that all the people who see this story as a positive message are freaking crazy?

"I didn't actually mean it, I just wanted to see if you would! Here, kill this defenseless animal instead, for I demand blood."

The correct response to that is to shop around for a new deity that doesn't play mind games.


The story takes on a slightly different tone when you realize that Ike was 40 and Abe was 140. Even if the ages aren't literal, Ike is middle aged and dear ol' dad is a geezer. If Ike had wanted to leave, he could very easily have overpowered the old man to do so.

The "test" was more of Isaac than of Abraham, and neither one objected ("they went up together" - as in "of one mind").
 
2013-04-12 11:22:49 AM  
Modern reasoning of the American Taliban:

"I dont have to craft a logical argument when reality does it for me. " - Jow Blowme.

ct.fra.bz
His gut does all the reasoning he needs.
 
2013-04-12 11:23:20 AM  

Ant: DubtodaIll: Ant: DubtodaIll: And I suppose if you're nutty enough to hear the Deity these days then I can be surprised when you do nutty things.

If you believe in a deity, how can you possibly come to the conclusion that someone who claims to be hearing from it is nutty? Do you believe or not?

It's not nuts to believe in something greater than yourself.  It's not nuts to recognize that living by the tenants of a major religion help to make you a successful individual. It is nuts to claim you actually hear that force speaking to your in your language just to you and only you can hear it.

I'm glad that you think that Abraham was insane when he tried to kill Issac. Am I the only one here who thinks that all the people who see this story as a positive message are freaking crazy?


Again that goes back to being able to cherry pick stories and passages.  If you take the story of Abraham and Isaac as a whole it's about obeying God in the fullest and he will show you grace and mercy.  It's a story about having faith in what you believe.  Yes in that story God commands Abraham to sacrifice his son, and Abraham goes through with it until the end where God stops him, is pleased by his faith, and then says sacrificing a sheep is good enough.
Personally I don't take the stories in the Bible literally,  I don't live in an agrarian society that lacks electricity and still does ritual animal sacrifices all the time.  My argument here, pertaining to this news story, is that anyone who takes the time to sit and read an entire religious text and takes the time to contemplate the stories and what they mean, is probably not going to go out and shoot someone because they disagree with them.
 
2013-04-12 11:24:07 AM  

DubtodaIll: Ant: DubtodaIll: And I suppose if you're nutty enough to hear the Deity these days then I can be surprised when you do nutty things.

If you believe in a deity, how can you possibly come to the conclusion that someone who claims to be hearing from it is nutty? Do you believe or not?

It's not nuts to believe in something greater than yourself.  It's not nuts to recognize that living by the tenants of a major religion help to make you a successful individual. It is nuts to claim you actually hear that force speaking to your in your language just to you and only you can hear it.


api.ning.com

How about this?
I don't tell YOU WHAT TO BELIEVE.
and you don't tell me WHAT NOT TO BELIEVE.
Cool?
 
Ant
2013-04-12 11:25:01 AM  

Dr Dreidel: The story takes on a slightly different tone when you realize that Ike was 40 and Abe was 140.


I'm not sure the people who know and love this story realize that. I'm pretty sure most of them think Issac was a child. It still doesn't make Yahweh any less of an asshole.
 
2013-04-12 11:28:38 AM  

Ant: Dr Dreidel: The story takes on a slightly different tone when you realize that Ike was 40 and Abe was 140.

I'm not sure the people who know and love this story realize that. I'm pretty sure most of them think Issac was a child. It still doesn't make Yahweh any less of an asshole.


That just, like, your opinion, man.
 
2013-04-12 11:31:43 AM  

draypresct: The overall homicide rate today is fairly close to the average homicide rate in the 1950s, and we've accomplished this without having to kill off an entire generation of young men to do it.

Your theory that increasing secularization causes (supposedly) higher homicide rates is not supported by the data.


Here here!
Japan is a VERY secular society with less than 15% believe in God and they have one of the LOWEST crime rates in the western world.
 
2013-04-12 11:32:24 AM  

Joe Blowme: Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.

[erbsegoesmmo.files.wordpress.com image 750x600]

This is called projection.

This is called willfully ignorant

/tolerance of evil is a crime

Of what am I being willfully ignorant?  Try to avoid circular reasoning, ie Islam is bad because Islam is bad.

With you i will have to avoid all reasoning, you are being obtuse and either know it (trolling me) or believe it (dhimmi or fullblow member of the death cult)

/i know, i know, you saw on the internets right? Everything on the internet is true

I'm an atheist, and I'm not trolling nor being obtuse.  I await your well crafted logical argument as to why Islam as a whole is bad.  Keep in mind however, I've been dropping hints in this to the fact that most specious arguments supporting this conclusion can be used logically to "prove" that any religion is bad.  If some bad Muslims make the whole religion bad, then some bad Christians make all of Christianity bad.  I'm guessing the latter is your religion of choice, so perhaps a bit more scrutiny is required.

I dont have to craft a logical argument when reality does it for me. Educate yourself, get out of your moms basement and look arround at the world. Action speak louder than words so just view their actions and then i guess come to your own conclusion. Try taking 1 religion at a time and see how they behave and treat others instead of trying the "BUT MOMMY BILLY DID IT TOO!!" to try and justify current stupidity with historic stupidity. Your "some bad muslims" is like saying "some bad nazis"


Some Muslims are bad therefore Islam is bad.

Speaking of bad nazis, are you aware that certain KKK white supremacist groups in the United States are openly Protestant?  Since nazis and therefore neo-nazis are bad that means that Protestants are bad.  Since Protestants are bad, Christians are bad.

Some Christians are bad therefore Christianity is bad.
 
2013-04-12 11:35:36 AM  

Aarontology: the_foo: If they like fire and brimstone so much, we might as well send more drones to deliver it. The sooner all these jihadi savages are dead, the sooner the rest of Pakistan and the world can have peace.

Because nothing says peace like a foreign nation raining death from the skies


It's not ideal, but nothing else will satisfy these people so we might as well take the tax writeoff.
 
2013-04-12 11:38:21 AM  

NobleHam: "We are not in favor of democracy, democracy is for Jews and Christians"

So, since Abu Bakr was elected, was he a Jew or a Christian?


Yes.

It's a lot like how Obama is an atheist Muslim.
 
2013-04-12 11:45:45 AM  

Theeng: I must confess, I have never understood the idea that removing a facet of human culture (like religion) could bring about peace or utopia.  Humanity is flawed to it's very core, and civilization has mostly been the story of us trying desperately to succeed despite ourselves.  Religion can cause us to ignore logic and reason, but it is hardly the only thing.  Blaming the ills of the world on religion smacks of tribal thinking by itself.  Perhaps I'm missing some perspective to see what others see.


Some people like to have One Idea that basically explains everything that's wrong with the world.  Conspiracy nuts, religious fundamentalists, and even the hard-core New Atheists all imagine that there's this single One Bad Thing that explains it all, that is the source of all badness in the world, and if only this One Bad Thing could be removed/defeated, we'd be living in a utopia.

For fundamentalist Christians, the One Bad Thing is the lack of Jesus.  For the hardcore New Atheists, the One Bad Thing is religion.

There's a certain appeal to the simplicity of this worldview.  It makes this crazy world we all live in a lot easier to understand (or to convince yourself that you understand, at least), and it gives your life purpose.
 
2013-04-12 11:48:15 AM  
"We are not in favor of democracy, democracy is for Jews and Christians" he said in recent propaganda video.

Nice!
 
2013-04-12 11:51:31 AM  

Tommy Moo: Fark this pig ignorant religion. Yeah, I said it.


The really sad this is you're proud of that fact, like a kid who gets a big grin when his parents walk into the room and see he painted the walls with his poop.
 
2013-04-12 11:52:06 AM  

NostroZ: For some reason there seems to be a lot more secular Christians than Muslims.

You know... practically speaking.


Have you ever wondered WHY?  Christianity is not immune from religious people wanting to be the ultimate governmental authority. Currently, Dominionists are advocating the christian takeover of the country and installing a christian, rather than a secular government.

Actually, up until Henry II of England, it was a matter of common knowledge that clerical authority was superior to the state.  There were practical difficulties controlling vast stretches of Europe via the Holy Roman empire and the direct authority of the church, but it was agreed that you didn't attack the church directly.

Then Henry II asked if someone could make the Archbishop of Canterbury disappear.

Sure, Hank had to say that he was really really sorry and all after that, but other princes around Europe realized that they could execute clergymen and not have their populations revolt. the catholic church realized this too... The church reacted more oppressively (inquisition, etc), however they understood they needed military power to enforce their will, and could not impose their will on powers strong enough to resist them militarily.
When principalities/states became powerful enough, they started rebelling against the church through the Reformation.

The west is secular, not because christianity is a "nicer" religion, but because states are exercising authority over the church.

BTW, the RCC still doesn't like to recognize the supremacy of the state.  One look at the child rape scandal and you see an institution that sees itself being above secular law.
 
2013-04-12 11:54:23 AM  
Too bad he doesn't take advice.
 
2013-04-12 11:56:24 AM  

NostroZ: I don't see how you're hate is helping anything... or anyone.


Dude, are you trying to say you like child murderers?  You are seriously farked up.
 
2013-04-12 11:58:46 AM  

Carn: Some Muslims are bad therefore Islam is bad.

Speaking of bad nazis, are you aware that certain KKK white supremacist groups in the United States are openly Protestant? Since nazis and therefore neo-nazis are bad that means that Protestants are bad. Since Protestants are bad, Christians are bad.

Some Christians are bad therefore Christianity is bad.


So by your logic, kkk bad so kkk leaders are bad so kkk leaders who were electd democrats in the senate are bad so all democrats are bad? Wow, huffing paint is no way to go throught life.

Like i said before but you just ignored, look at their actions today... they speak louder than words for those who want to learn. reality, how does it work?
 
2013-04-12 12:01:11 PM  

ciberido: Tommy Moo: Fark this pig ignorant religion. Yeah, I said it.

The really sad this is you're proud of that fact, like a kid who gets a big grin when his parents walk into the room and see he painted the walls with his poop.


Well, they are ignorant to the power of baccon.

/mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm baccon
 
2013-04-12 12:02:31 PM  

Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.


Is there still time for atheists to do so?
 
2013-04-12 12:03:59 PM  

maddogdelta: NostroZ: I don't see how you're hate is helping anything... or anyone.

Dude, are you trying to say you like child murderers?  You are seriously farked up.


Oh, you... I truly wonder what goes on in your mind.
www.cyclonefanatic.com


Does every person that you pose disturbing questions to and they refuse to participate automatically become a 'child murderer' in your mind?  Or do you simply throw your internet tough guy weight around with these emotionally charged accusations in the hopes to make some human connection, no matter how charged?
 
2013-04-12 12:09:36 PM  

maddogdelta: The west is secular, not because christianity is a "nicer" religion, but because states are exercising authority over the church.


Or that Christianity as a religion has about 500 years on Islam.
So it's already gone through is schisms, reunification, and settled issues of Church v. State.
 
2013-04-12 12:18:33 PM  

Joe Blowme: Carn: Some Muslims are bad therefore Islam is bad.

Speaking of bad nazis, are you aware that certain KKK white supremacist groups in the United States are openly Protestant? Since nazis and therefore neo-nazis are bad that means that Protestants are bad. Since Protestants are bad, Christians are bad.

Some Christians are bad therefore Christianity is bad.

So by your logic, kkk bad so kkk leaders are bad so kkk leaders who were electd democrats in the senate are bad so all democrats are bad? Wow, huffing paint is no way to go throught life.

Like i said before but you just ignored, look at their actions today... they speak louder than words for those who want to learn. reality, how does it work?


This is your logic, not mine.  I'm just pointing out as I have done so numerous times in this thread that it can be applied to Christianity just as easily as Islam.  It's either valid in both cases or neither.

I didn't ignore your point.  I used a counterexample to show that your argument doesn't stand up.  You compared Muslims to Nazis.  I brought up the point that there are actual nazis who are Protestant Christians. It is generally agreed upon that these are bad people who often do some really bad things to other people.  Does that make all Protestant Christians bad?  Similarly, if a subset of Muslims are bad, does this mean all Islam is bad?  This is a very simple logical exercise, with one correct answer.  If you cannot agree that the same logic applies in both situations, then you are using circular reasoning to prove your point, eg, Muslims are bad therefore Muslims are bad.
 
2013-04-12 12:21:07 PM  

Lernaeus: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

Is there still time for atheists to do so?


It makes more sense for atheists to do so, if you are in the organized religion is generally bad camp.
 
2013-04-12 12:21:41 PM  

Kriggerel: ...So kick the Jews out of Occupied Palestine!


The Jews were there first.
 
2013-04-12 12:25:54 PM  

Carn: evoke: Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.

Yeah, criticizing a stone-age religion and how it's negatively affecting billions of people sure is idiotic.

That would be Middle age actually.  If you were trying to make a point that the older a religion is, the more inferior it is, then clearly Islam is superior to Christianity.


Wait what? Christianity? I said nothing about Christianity. Way to be predictably knee-jerk though (but Christianity does it too!).

All religions should be criticized and ridiculed. The reason I said stone-age is because that's where its values are rooted.

That said, not all religions are equal. Western Christianity, is in my opinion, superior to middle-eastern/asian Islam. Just compare the value-systems of the west to that of the middle-east. Islam is also a political ideology.

By the way, I said nothing about Muslims, so the ridiculous straw men "lol some Muslims are bad therefore all Muslims are bad" isn't going to fly.

/Fark liberal apologists.
 
Ant
2013-04-12 12:33:46 PM  

ciberido: For the hardcore New Atheists, the One Bad Thing is religion.


One bad thing? There are tons of bad things that've got very little to do with religion.

/atheist
 
2013-04-12 12:35:47 PM  

PaLarkin: Kriggerel: ...So kick the Jews out of Occupied Palestine!

The Jews were there first.


No one cares who was where first or who bought what from whom...
 at this point, this is all that matters:

farm3.static.flickr.com
 
Ant
2013-04-12 12:39:34 PM  

NostroZ: maddogdelta: The west is secular, not because christianity is a "nicer" religion, but because states are exercising authority over the church.

Or that Christianity as a religion has about 500 years on Islam.
So it's already gone through is schisms, reunification, and settled issues of Church v. State.


If they'd just learn from Christianity's past instead of having to experience it themselves firsthand, it'd be easier on all of us.

Oh, to be young and dumb again...
 
2013-04-12 12:43:42 PM  

evoke: Carn: evoke: Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.

Yeah, criticizing a stone-age religion and how it's negatively affecting billions of people sure is idiotic.

That would be Middle age actually.  If you were trying to make a point that the older a religion is, the more inferior it is, then clearly Islam is superior to Christianity.

Wait what? Christianity? I said nothing about Christianity. Way to be predictably knee-jerk though (but Christianity does it too!).

All religions should be criticized and ridiculed. The reason I said stone-age is because that's where its values are rooted.

That said, not all religions are equal. Western Christianity, is in my opinion, superior to middle-eastern/asian Islam. Just compare the value-systems of the west to that of the middle-east. Islam is also a political ideology.

By the way, I said nothing about Muslims, so the ridiculous straw men "lol some Muslims are bad therefore all Muslims are bad" isn't going to fly.

/Fark liberal apologists.


Well since it's your opinion, it must be true!  No need to defend it with any sort of facts or logical argument.  You have effectively argued that "my religion is better than their religion" which is truly profound, has never been stated by anyone before, and has really helped us understand these concepts.  You may call it a strawman, but it is in fact the case that you are arguing either that "some Muslims are bad therefore all Muslims are bad" or "all Muslims are bad therefore all Muslims are bad".  It would only be a strawman if it weren't effectively the argument you are making.
 
2013-04-12 12:48:27 PM  

NostroZ: and settled issues of Church v. State


Age has nothing to do with it.  Orthadox jews in Israel are trying to make secular Israel into a theocracy.  Dominionists are trying to take over the United States.  The RCC still insists on having its own country, and has never been happy with not physically ruling all it could rule.

The issue is which has more power to exercise authority.  Islam has been very good in mainting the supremacy of the theocrats.  When moslems come to the US, they learn that secular authority is primary, and they either adapt to that or get thrown in jail for honor killing their daughters.
 
2013-04-12 01:00:53 PM  

maddogdelta: NostroZ: and settled issues of Church v. State

Age has nothing to do with it.  Orthodox jews in Israel are trying to make secular Israel into a theocracy.  Dominionists are trying to take over the United States.  The RCC still insists on having its own country, and has never been happy with not physically ruling all it could rule.

The issue is which has more power to exercise authority.  Islam has been very good in mainting the supremacy of the theocrats.  When moslems come to the US, they learn that secular authority is primary, and they either adapt to that or get thrown in jail for honor killing their daughters.


Right.  Religious law is below federal law in America.  That's why you sometimes will see a crazy cult that marries off their daughters at nine years old get raided by the FBI from time to time.

The same goes for Israel.  They are mainly secular as a people, though Judaism is the preferred state religion.

In Muslim countries, there is the concept of Sharia Law which is unique in that it SUPERSEDES civil law and it is the duty of a Muslim to bring about this type of government, to be imposed on others.  There are gradients of Sharia (Hanbali, Hanafi, Manki, Sunni schools and the shiate Ja'Fari).

Yet, what remains similar is that in a Muslim country, there will be "decency laws" which often are biased against women, minorities, etc.
 
2013-04-12 01:11:51 PM  

NostroZ: The same goes for Israel. They are mainly secular as a people, though Judaism is the preferred state religion.

In Muslim countries, there is the concept of Sharia Law which is unique in that it SUPERSEDES civil law and it is the duty of a Muslim to bring about this type of government, to be imposed on others. There are gradients of Sharia (Hanbali, Hanafi, Manki, Sunni schools and the shiate Ja'Fari)


The facts you are stating are in exact agreement with what I was saying.  What you are forgetting is WHY christians and jews are living in secular countries and not theocracies.

In both cases, it is the primacy of the state, no church which guarantees this.  If the church gets the power, it will exercise that power. Whether christian, moslim or jew.
 
2013-04-12 01:18:02 PM  

Joe Blowme: ciberido: Tommy Moo: Fark this pig ignorant religion. Yeah, I said it.

The really sad this is you're proud of that fact, like a kid who gets a big grin when his parents walk into the room and see he painted the walls with his poop.

Well, they are ignorant to the power of baccon.

/mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm baccon


English, do either of you motherfarkers speak it?
 
2013-04-12 01:26:30 PM  

maddogdelta: NostroZ: The same goes for Israel. They are mainly secular as a people, though Judaism is the preferred state religion.

In Muslim countries, there is the concept of Sharia Law which is unique in that it SUPERSEDES civil law and it is the duty of a Muslim to bring about this type of government, to be imposed on others. There are gradients of Sharia (Hanbali, Hanafi, Manki, Sunni schools and the shiate Ja'Fari)

The facts you are stating are in exact agreement with what I was saying.  What you are forgetting is WHY christians and jews are living in secular countries and not theocracies.

In both cases, it is the primacy of the state, no church which guarantees this.  If the church gets the power, it will exercise that power. Whether christian, moslim or jew.



Sorry to butt in - I'm trying to follow your interesting discussion.

I think you both might agree that there are a number of Christian and Muslem countries with state religions (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_religion#Christian_countries).

I saw NostroZ's post earlier stating that Israel is a largely secular society, despite their state religion. Would it be accurate to summarize your position as stating that the Christian countries with state religions are more secular (perhaps due to age?), limiting their ability to legislate based on their religion?

Is maddogdelta's point that in the Christian countries, the secular governments have seized power from the church?
 
2013-04-12 01:37:34 PM  

ciberido: Tommy Moo: Fark this pig ignorant religion. Yeah, I said it.

The really sad this is you're proud of that fact, like a kid who gets a big grin when his parents walk into the room and see he painted the walls with his poop.


They hate you, you know. These spittle-flecked, bath salt freaks you are so eager to defend would cut your f*cking head off given the chance. It's a shame that the only Americans willing to call them out for what they are are our own fundamentalist crazies.
 
2013-04-12 01:41:56 PM  
I wonder what would happen if the USA ever had a secular leader in congress or the senate or (gawd forbid!) as the President? I'm guessing some tea party, white supremacist nut bags would at least take a shot at him/her.
 
2013-04-12 01:48:50 PM  

hitlersbrain: I wonder what would happen if the USA ever had a secular leader in congress or the senate or (gawd forbid!) as the President? I'm guessing some tea party, white supremacist nut bags would at least take a shot at him/her.


There used to be atheists on the Red side of the aisle. One even ran for president; yes, as a Republican.

Pete Stark and Barry Goldwater - both served as recently as the Gipper's re-election (Stark served into the 00s if memory serves).

// irony: the teabaggers support the same Birchian economic philosophies as Goldwater (and Rand, who was a big-time atheist, but whatevs)
// bonus irony: while also embodying his warning about "these preachers" getting ahold of the GOP
 
2013-04-12 01:53:14 PM  

Tommy Moo: ciberido: Tommy Moo: Fark this pig ignorant religion. Yeah, I said it.

The really sad this is you're proud of that fact, like a kid who gets a big grin when his parents walk into the room and see he painted the walls with his poop.

They hate you, you know. These spittle-flecked, bath salt freaks you are so eager to defend would cut your f*cking head off given the chance. It's a shame that the only Americans willing to call them out for what they are are our own fundamentalist crazies.


The vast majority of Muslems really don't care one way or the other about me or you. If you visit their countries, they might  . . . offer to sell you something. Pretty scary.
 
2013-04-12 01:58:48 PM  

draypresct: Is maddogdelta's point that in the Christian countries, the secular governments have seized power from the church?


Exactly.  the first amendment to our constitution was specifically for the purpose of having any church be the supreme power over the state.  Religious institutions are still fighting that amendment.
 
2013-04-12 02:06:56 PM  

draypresct: I saw NostroZ's post earlier stating that Israel is a largely secular society, despite their state religion. Would it be accurate to summarize your position as stating that the Christian countries with state religions are more secular (perhaps due to age?), limiting their ability to legislate based on their religion?


Precisely.
Christianity has flirted with state control as was the case with the Holy Roman Empire.  This caused a schism between the east and west church, where in the east, the king still picked the high priest (vs. west where as you saw... white smoke from a group of priests in the Vatican).  Now after the fall of Rome and the loss of the supremacy of the church there started a movement of reunification between the two ideologies.
This reunification has been going on for more than 500 years now and in my opinion gets back to the roots of Christianity, where a poor carpenter can be the son of God (vs. Rome's Augustus, who was also then considered a son of god).  By no longer having a state, as with Rome, Christianity had to go through the Protestant Reformation and become a more PERSONAL religion VS. a STATE one.

The Muslim faith has still not reconciled the Sunni v. shiate schism, nor have they found a way to divorce the religion from the state.
 
2013-04-12 02:09:24 PM  

draypresct: I think you both might agree that there are a number of Christian and Muslem countries with state religions (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_religion#Christian_countries).


An interesting point regarding state religions is the church of england. Henry VIII and later Elizabeth I solidified the idea that the monarch is the head of the church.  So the King/Queen could not be ordered around by a bishop, because the king/queen was the anglican "pope", making secular authority prime.

The pope didn't like this, which is why he told spain to deal with the situation, with rather disastrous results.
 
2013-04-12 02:12:46 PM  

NostroZ: Christianity had to go through the Protestant Reformation and become a more PERSONAL religion VS. a STATE one.


If that solved the problem, why are christians in the US trying so hard to impose their form of religious law on the rest of the country?
 
2013-04-12 02:35:08 PM  

draypresct: Tommy Moo: ciberido: Tommy Moo: Fark this pig ignorant religion. Yeah, I said it.

The really sad this is you're proud of that fact, like a kid who gets a big grin when his parents walk into the room and see he painted the walls with his poop.

They hate you, you know. These spittle-flecked, bath salt freaks you are so eager to defend would cut your f*cking head off given the chance. It's a shame that the only Americans willing to call them out for what they are are our own fundamentalist crazies.

The vast majority of Muslems really don't care one way or the other about me or you. If you visit their countries, they might  . . . offer to sell you something. Pretty scary.


Hours and hours of interviews exist such as this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2x32tG6-F0

If people like the man in this video were rare extremists, their views would not be dominating and setting the tone of culture in all Muslim countries (except possibly Turkey and Malaysia.) Christians who hate birth control aren't able to prevent it from being sold because they are fringe extremists. This man represents the median of culture in the Middle East.

Here is an article summarizing Pew Research data among worldwide Muslims:

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/41425/pew-report-13-of-us-muslims-sup po rt-al-qaeda-60-say-911-attacks-not-done-by-muslims-arabs-13-say-being- muslim-conflicts-w-modern-society-25-came-to-us-under-bush/

Approximately 1 out of 3 Muslims in the world supports Al Qaeda and thinks that suicide bombings are a justifiable sociopolitical tool for spreading and preserving the influence of Islam. The raw numbers can be found here: http://www.pewglobal.org/database/?indicator=19&survey=1&response=Oft e n/sometimes%20justified&mode=chart

These numbers are nothing like Christianity. The closest equivalent American Christianity has to Islam would be the Fred Phelps Westboro Baptist Church, which comprises a total of 30 people who have never actually acted in violence. It's no secret that I am a critic of all religion, and I frequently go up against the regressive influence that Christianity has on American culture, but when it comes to dread destructive forces in the 21st century, there can be no doubt that Islam is public enemy number one.

And I will preempt anyone who might call me a bigot by insisting that there is no such thing as bigotry against an idea or set of ideas. I am not a racist, and I have no quarrel with people of Arabic descent, so long as they are not Muslims. Saying that I don't like Muslims is no different than someone saying that they don't like Republicans.
 
2013-04-12 02:36:03 PM  

NostroZ: Does every person that you pose disturbing questions to and they refuse to participate automatically become a 'child murderer' in your mind?


Well, you made a poste about me hating, when I hadn't posted any hate...

I humored you by saying that I hate child murderers

Then you said....

NostroZ: maddogdelta: I really hate people who kill children. I really hate other people who kill in the name of religion. And those people who do both are real assholes. I really hate them!


there you go. enough venom for you?

I don't see how you're hate is helping anything... or anyone.


You seemed to imply that that hating child murders is somehow wrong.  When I call you on it, you get all whiny...
 
2013-04-12 02:37:10 PM  

Tommy Moo: Approximately 1 out of 3 Muslims in the world supports Al Qaeda and thinks that suicide bombings are a justifiable sociopolitical tool for spreading and preserving the influence of Islam. The raw numbers can be found here: http://www.pewglobal.org/database/?indicator=19&survey=1&response=Oft e n/sometimes%20justified&mode=chart

These numbers are nothing like Christianity

.

Really? Can you find a study done during The Troubles to find out how many Catholics supported bombing cafes and cars?

// actually, I'm kind of curious about that myself
 
2013-04-12 02:38:43 PM  

Dr Dreidel: There used to be atheists on the Red side of the aisle. One even ran for president; yes, as a Republican.


Sorry, but today's GOP is not the party of your grandfathers.
 
2013-04-12 03:06:42 PM  

Stone Meadow: Dr Dreidel: There used to be atheists on the Red side of the aisle. One even ran for president; yes, as a Republican.

Sorry, but today's GOP is not the party of your grandfathers.


The question was "I wonder if we've ever had a secular leader in congress or the senate or (gawd forbid!) as the President". I helpfully infromed the questioner that it was not so long ago that such was the nominal standard-bearer of the GOP.

It may seem like it'd take some doing, but it was just 15 years between Goldwater's run and Reagan's win (which many conservatives called "the final tally of the Goldwater-Johnson race; Goldwater won"). It is possible (however unlikely, the possibility is nonzero) that 15 years may flip it back.
 
2013-04-12 03:12:36 PM  
Points granted, Doc...I was just making a pun on the old Pontiac ads.
 
2013-04-12 03:31:43 PM  

maddogdelta: NostroZ: Christianity had to go through the Protestant Reformation and become a more PERSONAL religion VS. a STATE one.

If that solved the problem, why are christians in the US trying so hard to impose their form of religious law on the rest of the country?


Okay, that's North Carolina and it is a bill that legislators don't intend to pass.
They are doing it as grand standing for their constituency.

Which makes me wonder, who are you grand standing for?
 
2013-04-12 03:37:48 PM  
I think it's about time we deliver some Govt. issued blankets to the Taliban/Sharia proponents.
 
2013-04-12 03:49:19 PM  
NostroZmaddogdelta: Thanks for the feedback. It's been interesting following this historical discussion.
 
2013-04-12 04:36:26 PM  
Let's face it, if the people of Pakistan wanted these people dead, they'd kill them themselves. Fact of the matter is that the Taliban have a great deal of support in Pakistan. We can't "liberate" them.
 
2013-04-12 04:57:51 PM  

Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.


I denounce Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. Basically, the three things that have caused more war, death, strife, ignorance and hatred than any other thing in human history.

Does denouncing institutions that promote ignorance and hatred make me an idiot?


BTW, FTA: "We are not in favor of democracy, democracy is for Jews and Christians" he said in recent propaganda video.

"They are intended to divide Muslims, we want the implementation of Sharia [law] and for that jihad is necessary," he added.

Yeah, that Sharia sure sounds great, huh? Obedient women. Stonings. Honor killings. No education for women. Abandoning science and reason for religious zealotry. Yeah, we should have more of that.

oops! There I go being an idiot.
 
2013-04-12 05:11:12 PM  

RevMark: I denounce Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. Basically, the three things that have caused more war, death, strife, ignorance and hatred than any other thing in human history.


Wow!  You sure do denounce a LOT of PEOPLE.

Basically, you denounce about 55% of the WORLD POPULATION.

WTF is your problem?  Show me on the doll where he touched you...
 
2013-04-12 05:29:18 PM  

NostroZ: RevMark: I denounce Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. Basically, the three things that have caused more war, death, strife, ignorance and hatred than any other thing in human history.

Wow!  You sure do denounce a LOT of PEOPLE.

Basically, you denounce about 55% of the WORLD POPULATION.

WTF is your problem?  Show me on the doll where he touched you...



I think his faith in humanity is kind of touching. He seems to think that we'd find no other excuses to do horrible things to each other if it weren't for these three religions.

I happen to believe in our ability to be complete jerks, period, but I'm old and cynical.
This list shows a few notable examples. By my count, 8 of the top 10 did not involve those three religions in any way.
 
2013-04-12 05:34:29 PM  
FTFA: ""We are not in favor of democracy, democracy is for Jews and Christians" he said in recent propaganda video."

You goddamned evil bastard. You farking horrible coont. Democracy is for all people. You farking child.

FTFA: ""They are intended to divide Muslims, we want the implementation of Sharia [law] and for that jihad is necessary," he added."

WRONG. Dead farking wrong. You couldn't be more wrong. I work with Muslims. I live with them in my community. And somehow they do that without struggling with your so-called jihad.

Consider this a vote for Fakhar UI Islam. May he rest in peace.
 
2013-04-12 05:43:16 PM  

RevMark: Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.

I denounce Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. Basically, the three things that have caused more war, death, strife, ignorance and hatred than any other thing in human history.

Does denouncing institutions that promote ignorance and hatred make me an idiot?


BTW, FTA: "We are not in favor of democracy, democracy is for Jews and Christians" he said in recent propaganda video.

"They are intended to divide Muslims, we want the implementation of Sharia [law] and for that jihad is necessary," he added.

Yeah, that Sharia sure sounds great, huh? Obedient women. Stonings. Honor killings. No education for women. Abandoning science and reason for religious zealotry. Yeah, we should have more of that.

oops! There I go being an idiot.


Actually, I can appreciate if you have problems with all three.  I guess I'd amend my earlier statement to "Denounce Islam without denouncing the others".
 
2013-04-12 07:00:58 PM  

draypresct: I happen to believe in our ability to be complete jerks, period, but I'm old and cynical.
This list shows a few notable examples. By my count, 8 of the top 10 did not involve those three religions in any way.


The Mongols! 7 - 17% of the WORLD POPULATION killed at their hands!
i2.ytimg.com
Amazingly, they did not care about God.
If you win, god was on your side. If you did, he was not.
 
2013-04-12 10:12:22 PM  

NostroZ: Which makes me wonder, who are you grand standing for?


draypresct: NostroZ,  maddogdelta: Thanks for the feedback. It's been interesting following this historical discussion.


I could let it stand at that.

But allow me to point out that this is a discussion forum.  And during that discussion, people may disagree with your views. And each party then will attempt to justify their views.  Generally, the person who can demonstrate their position with facts and logic generally wins.  The other either acknowledges that they were in error or become extremely butthurt.

You, sir, are the butthurt kind.

I'm not grandstanding at all.  But since you seem to like pictures...

i581.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-13 01:11:40 AM  
This sort of thing is why nobody cares that we're bombing Pakistan from drones. The whole country seems to be nuts. They kill their own moderates, have dozens of terrorist training camps, teach children to hate non-Muslims and be good little suicide bombers, etc. I'm sure there are nice people in Pakistan, just like in any other hellhole, but they seem unable to win because the opposition feels its their divine right to kill anyone who disagrees. So we bomb the terrorists in return, which sadly results in several hundred civilian deaths out of every thousand kills. Is it worth it? Possibly, if you calculate how many people those terrorists would have killed. But it certainly isn't making anyone like us and it is costing a lot of money - money that also translates to lives lost due to the money not being spent on basic needs at home.
 
2013-04-13 04:37:56 PM  

hdhale: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Because a nation ruled by its religious principles always does well right?

*stares at the evangelical right

In 1950 it was possible to load up with enough firearms and ammunition, purchased by mail order (without a background check) to repeat any mass murder committed in the 20 years.

Yet people didn't do it.  Back then, going to church on Sunday or synagog on Saturday was considered something you just did--it was expected and the vast majority of Americans worshiped God, put out religious displays on government property, and were not ambivalent about it.

Tell me more about how far we have progressed culturally as a nation since, given increased the increased secularization of society.


You blame it on people losing religion, I blame it on people exploiting power and money
 
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