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(CNN)   This is gonna shock you, but the secularist candidate for the Pakistani parliament was killed by religious nuts   (edition.cnn.com) divider line 167
    More: Sad, Parliament of Pakistan, Hakimullah Mehsud, Pakistani, Pakistan, Hyderabad, southern district, TTP, Pakistani Taliban  
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4315 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Apr 2013 at 9:31 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-12 02:37:10 PM

Tommy Moo: Approximately 1 out of 3 Muslims in the world supports Al Qaeda and thinks that suicide bombings are a justifiable sociopolitical tool for spreading and preserving the influence of Islam. The raw numbers can be found here: http://www.pewglobal.org/database/?indicator=19&survey=1&response=Oft e n/sometimes%20justified&mode=chart

These numbers are nothing like Christianity

.

Really? Can you find a study done during The Troubles to find out how many Catholics supported bombing cafes and cars?

// actually, I'm kind of curious about that myself
 
2013-04-12 02:38:43 PM

Dr Dreidel: There used to be atheists on the Red side of the aisle. One even ran for president; yes, as a Republican.


Sorry, but today's GOP is not the party of your grandfathers.
 
2013-04-12 03:06:42 PM

Stone Meadow: Dr Dreidel: There used to be atheists on the Red side of the aisle. One even ran for president; yes, as a Republican.

Sorry, but today's GOP is not the party of your grandfathers.


The question was "I wonder if we've ever had a secular leader in congress or the senate or (gawd forbid!) as the President". I helpfully infromed the questioner that it was not so long ago that such was the nominal standard-bearer of the GOP.

It may seem like it'd take some doing, but it was just 15 years between Goldwater's run and Reagan's win (which many conservatives called "the final tally of the Goldwater-Johnson race; Goldwater won"). It is possible (however unlikely, the possibility is nonzero) that 15 years may flip it back.
 
2013-04-12 03:12:36 PM
Points granted, Doc...I was just making a pun on the old Pontiac ads.
 
2013-04-12 03:31:43 PM

maddogdelta: NostroZ: Christianity had to go through the Protestant Reformation and become a more PERSONAL religion VS. a STATE one.

If that solved the problem, why are christians in the US trying so hard to impose their form of religious law on the rest of the country?


Okay, that's North Carolina and it is a bill that legislators don't intend to pass.
They are doing it as grand standing for their constituency.

Which makes me wonder, who are you grand standing for?
 
2013-04-12 03:37:48 PM
I think it's about time we deliver some Govt. issued blankets to the Taliban/Sharia proponents.
 
2013-04-12 03:49:19 PM
NostroZmaddogdelta: Thanks for the feedback. It's been interesting following this historical discussion.
 
2013-04-12 04:36:26 PM
Let's face it, if the people of Pakistan wanted these people dead, they'd kill them themselves. Fact of the matter is that the Taliban have a great deal of support in Pakistan. We can't "liberate" them.
 
2013-04-12 04:57:51 PM

Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.


I denounce Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. Basically, the three things that have caused more war, death, strife, ignorance and hatred than any other thing in human history.

Does denouncing institutions that promote ignorance and hatred make me an idiot?


BTW, FTA: "We are not in favor of democracy, democracy is for Jews and Christians" he said in recent propaganda video.

"They are intended to divide Muslims, we want the implementation of Sharia [law] and for that jihad is necessary," he added.

Yeah, that Sharia sure sounds great, huh? Obedient women. Stonings. Honor killings. No education for women. Abandoning science and reason for religious zealotry. Yeah, we should have more of that.

oops! There I go being an idiot.
 
2013-04-12 05:11:12 PM

RevMark: I denounce Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. Basically, the three things that have caused more war, death, strife, ignorance and hatred than any other thing in human history.


Wow!  You sure do denounce a LOT of PEOPLE.

Basically, you denounce about 55% of the WORLD POPULATION.

WTF is your problem?  Show me on the doll where he touched you...
 
2013-04-12 05:29:18 PM

NostroZ: RevMark: I denounce Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. Basically, the three things that have caused more war, death, strife, ignorance and hatred than any other thing in human history.

Wow!  You sure do denounce a LOT of PEOPLE.

Basically, you denounce about 55% of the WORLD POPULATION.

WTF is your problem?  Show me on the doll where he touched you...



I think his faith in humanity is kind of touching. He seems to think that we'd find no other excuses to do horrible things to each other if it weren't for these three religions.

I happen to believe in our ability to be complete jerks, period, but I'm old and cynical.
This list shows a few notable examples. By my count, 8 of the top 10 did not involve those three religions in any way.
 
2013-04-12 05:34:29 PM
FTFA: ""We are not in favor of democracy, democracy is for Jews and Christians" he said in recent propaganda video."

You goddamned evil bastard. You farking horrible coont. Democracy is for all people. You farking child.

FTFA: ""They are intended to divide Muslims, we want the implementation of Sharia [law] and for that jihad is necessary," he added."

WRONG. Dead farking wrong. You couldn't be more wrong. I work with Muslims. I live with them in my community. And somehow they do that without struggling with your so-called jihad.

Consider this a vote for Fakhar UI Islam. May he rest in peace.
 
2013-04-12 05:43:16 PM

RevMark: Carn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Carn: In before wholesome Christians righteously denounce Islam.

FYI, you don't have to be an Xtian to denounce Islam.

I was being facetious.  I agree that you don't have to be a Christian to denounce Islam, you probably just have to be an idiot.

I denounce Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. Basically, the three things that have caused more war, death, strife, ignorance and hatred than any other thing in human history.

Does denouncing institutions that promote ignorance and hatred make me an idiot?


BTW, FTA: "We are not in favor of democracy, democracy is for Jews and Christians" he said in recent propaganda video.

"They are intended to divide Muslims, we want the implementation of Sharia [law] and for that jihad is necessary," he added.

Yeah, that Sharia sure sounds great, huh? Obedient women. Stonings. Honor killings. No education for women. Abandoning science and reason for religious zealotry. Yeah, we should have more of that.

oops! There I go being an idiot.


Actually, I can appreciate if you have problems with all three.  I guess I'd amend my earlier statement to "Denounce Islam without denouncing the others".
 
2013-04-12 07:00:58 PM

draypresct: I happen to believe in our ability to be complete jerks, period, but I'm old and cynical.
This list shows a few notable examples. By my count, 8 of the top 10 did not involve those three religions in any way.


The Mongols! 7 - 17% of the WORLD POPULATION killed at their hands!
i2.ytimg.com
Amazingly, they did not care about God.
If you win, god was on your side. If you did, he was not.
 
2013-04-12 10:12:22 PM

NostroZ: Which makes me wonder, who are you grand standing for?


draypresct: NostroZ,  maddogdelta: Thanks for the feedback. It's been interesting following this historical discussion.


I could let it stand at that.

But allow me to point out that this is a discussion forum.  And during that discussion, people may disagree with your views. And each party then will attempt to justify their views.  Generally, the person who can demonstrate their position with facts and logic generally wins.  The other either acknowledges that they were in error or become extremely butthurt.

You, sir, are the butthurt kind.

I'm not grandstanding at all.  But since you seem to like pictures...

i581.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-13 01:11:40 AM
This sort of thing is why nobody cares that we're bombing Pakistan from drones. The whole country seems to be nuts. They kill their own moderates, have dozens of terrorist training camps, teach children to hate non-Muslims and be good little suicide bombers, etc. I'm sure there are nice people in Pakistan, just like in any other hellhole, but they seem unable to win because the opposition feels its their divine right to kill anyone who disagrees. So we bomb the terrorists in return, which sadly results in several hundred civilian deaths out of every thousand kills. Is it worth it? Possibly, if you calculate how many people those terrorists would have killed. But it certainly isn't making anyone like us and it is costing a lot of money - money that also translates to lives lost due to the money not being spent on basic needs at home.
 
2013-04-13 04:37:56 PM

hdhale: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Because a nation ruled by its religious principles always does well right?

*stares at the evangelical right

In 1950 it was possible to load up with enough firearms and ammunition, purchased by mail order (without a background check) to repeat any mass murder committed in the 20 years.

Yet people didn't do it.  Back then, going to church on Sunday or synagog on Saturday was considered something you just did--it was expected and the vast majority of Americans worshiped God, put out religious displays on government property, and were not ambivalent about it.

Tell me more about how far we have progressed culturally as a nation since, given increased the increased secularization of society.


You blame it on people losing religion, I blame it on people exploiting power and money
 
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