Kraln: Man, fluorine compounds are super nasty. To give you an idea, Fluorine will bind with noble gasses--yeah, you can have NeF8. Why the hell would you put fluorine anywhere near a car?
maxalt: I worked at a company Statec in so cal in the 1980's for about 1 year. Statek used Hydrogen Fluoride to etch quartz crystal in the manufacture of oscillators for watches computers and all kinds of high tech stuff. Hydrogen Fluoride is just about the only acid that will do the job.
Lukeonia1: I already knew (from experience, no less) that any fluorinated refrigerant produces hydrofluoric acid and carbon monoxide when it burns. SAE says this new stuff is only slightly more flammable than the old R123a.Is it possible the design of the car's air conditioner system might be part of the reason for the nice dramatic fire in the article?/daily fail, indeed
Amos Quito: Oldiron_79: palan: Cybernetic: Wiki says that when it burns, it releases hydrofluoric acid--which is truly scary stuff.I don't think I've ever heard about a fluoride compound that isn't incredibly scary.Look up Uranium Hexafluride.I did.[upload.wikimedia.org image 144x161]Fuuuuu...
hardinparamedic: They mix calcium gluconate in a KY slurry at a ratio of 1ml CaGlu to 2ml KY and slather that on the wound every fifteen minutes. Hands get put in gloves filled with the stuff. They'll infiltrate Ca Gluconate into the tissue around the burn too with a tuberculin syringe at a dose of 0.5ml x cm3 area affected. When you get to the hospital, an anesthesiologist will put in an arterial line above the level of the injury and give you a massive dose of calcium gluconate intraarterially for the next few hours.
orbister: Oh yes indeed. Know what the standard treatment for a major HF burn is? If it gets to the bone you get immediate amputation at the next major joint.
orbister: maxalt: I worked at a company Statec in so cal in the 1980's for about 1 year. Statek used Hydrogen Fluoride to etch quartz crystal in the manufacture of oscillators for watches computers and all kinds of high tech stuff. Hydrogen Fluoride is just about the only acid that will do the job.I had a research job as part of which I had to make up an etching solution including HF - it's about the only thing which will etch niobium. I used it cheerfully and with no special precautions until the day I had some spare time and read the safety data sheet.Holy. shiat.After that it was fume cupboard only and full protective gear whenever I went near the stuff. Now I read the data sheets first.
Oldiron_79: So we are back to the toxic and flamable refrigarants of the 1920s that freon replaced?
Kraln: Man, fluorine compounds are super nasty. To give you an idea, Fluorine will bind with noble gasses--yeah, you can have NeF8. Why the hell would you put fluorine anywhere near a car?http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_wont_work_w it h_dioxygen_difluoride.php
skozlaw: But when McCarthy gave SNAP approval to HFO-1234yf, her office never mentioned the tests conducted by Daimler, the parent company of Mercedes-Benz.Yea. Probably because Benz is the only company that's ever managed to actually produce that problem in all the tests that have been performed.It's almost as if they created a test with a desired outcome to avoid having to begin using a product that's significantly costlier than the one they've been using...
Dr Dreidel: Also, a refrigerant that burns is doing it wrong. You had one job, REFRIGERant...
Sgygus: Does it kill cancer?
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