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(Eurogamer)   #dealtwith   (eurogamer.net) divider line 157
    More: Followup, Adam Orth, SimCity  
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6437 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Apr 2013 at 10:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-11 08:12:00 AM
Good farking riddance.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-11 08:35:23 AM
Fired for expressing what many in places like Seattle believe. I'll play apologist kinda.

A bunch of us came from places like Janesville WI and Blacksburgh, VA, and got an education and left. Or found a town where they were hiring and left. Or just had enough of our inbred hometown bullsh*t and left. Made something of ourselves once we got here, competed with our brains instead of our birth certificates, and have done well in the thriving economies of Left Coast big cities. And take pride in what we've accomplished.

With pride comes arrogance, sometimes, unfortunately.

But its one thing to spout crap into anonymous forums, quite another to head up a consumer gaming group. Bad fight to pick, Orthy. You still need to sell sh*t to them. Stop telling them how a lot of us really think.

On the bright side, now you can sit all day and tweet out how much the midwest and appalachia sucks.
 
2013-04-11 08:47:34 AM
BioWare is full of pretty smart people, it would seem...
 
2013-04-11 08:52:08 AM

xanadian: BioWare is full of pretty smart people, it would seem...


Well, they managed to troll the creative head of XBOX to get his dumb ass fired, if thats what you mean.
 
2013-04-11 09:43:19 AM

Generation_D: But its one thing to spout crap into anonymous forums, quite another to head up a consumer gaming group. Bad fight to pick, Orthy. You still need to sell sh*t to them. Stop telling them how a lot of us really think.


If your job is heading up a CONSUMER gaming group, it seems like your one job is to pay attention to the consumers' feedback. Even if he personally disagrees, even if the company disagrees, his job is to make the consumer understand why they disagree and how they can bridge the gap. Not to "troll", further antagonize, or play tone-deaf.

// you had one job, dumbass
// I work in IT support, I know from such things
 
2013-04-11 09:43:29 AM

xanadian: BioWare is full of pretty smart people, it would seem...


I don't know, they did defend EA after EA won the Worst Company in America (called it). Basically said that EA gives them all the creative control to fark up games.

"The best analogy I use, in a positive way, is EA gives you enough rope to hang yourself."

I was fine with blaming EA for all of BioWare's recent shortcomings, including Dragon Age 2.

And glad Orth got what he deserved. Acting like a smarmy biatch, especially in a public forum while representing your company, should get you biatch slapped.
 
2013-04-11 10:04:28 AM
i.imgur.com

Not surprised Microsoft asked him to fall on his own sword.
 
2013-04-11 10:04:41 AM
"And he's a nice guy as well. He teases and f**** around - like so many of us on the net do - and yeah, he tweeted without thinking (like many of us on the net do) and he just got very unlucky."

Yes, that sure was some bad luck there.  No way to have seen it coming, poor bloke.
 
2013-04-11 10:12:20 AM
its all bullshiat
Your computer is always on unless you rock the power switch on the back.

Your toaster, dishwasher, washing machine and dryer are always on.

Cope.   Why the fark would you want to play an entire array of multiplayer games offline?


Seriously, the bigger shiat is the lack of fanboi outcry over the unit being 100% AMD hardware and still costing nearly twice as much as the equivalent APU system it shares spec with.
 
2013-04-11 10:15:11 AM
Hey look! It's the Internet! Filled with nerds that love to rant about all the failings of major gaming companies!

Hold my beer, imma poke em with a stick and see what happens.
 
2013-04-11 10:15:34 AM

prjindigo: its all bullshiat
Your computer is always on unless you rock the power switch on the back.

Your toaster, dishwasher, washing machine and dryer are always on.

Cope.   Why the fark would you want to play an entire array of multiplayer games offline?


Seriously, the bigger shiat is the lack of fanboi outcry over the unit being 100% AMD hardware and still costing nearly twice as much as the equivalent APU system it shares spec with.


2/10.

I'll bump it up to a 4/10 if you actually get some bites, but I think you came on a little strong.
 
2013-04-11 10:17:04 AM
It guess his job wasn't.....

( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)

always on.


YEEAAAAAHHHHHHH!
 
2013-04-11 10:18:18 AM
GAH. "I", not it.
 
2013-04-11 10:23:36 AM
Well, I wonder who else MS will blame for the "always on" feature if it is true.
 
2013-04-11 10:24:17 AM
He caused a major internet, and even mainstream press, backlash against the xbox.  It basically forced the 'leaks' we got yesterday that said it could play offline, and has paid hardware addon backwards compat.

So it cost them a surprise announcement and forced their hand early.  Damn right they crapcanned him for it.
 
2013-04-11 10:25:31 AM
Dumbshiat.

Got what he had coming to him.
 
2013-04-11 10:26:35 AM
Good riddance, but it's barely a start.  His #dealwithit attitude is probably a symptom of working at Microsoft too long - it permeates their whole culture now.  Remember all the pre-release negative feedback about Windows 8?  Consumers saying they didn't want a tablet OS on their PC, OEMs being pushed around about making mostly touchscreen PCs (not to mention the backstabbing with their Surface Pro), even all of the analysts knew it would flop.  MS brazenly charged forward, telling their consumers and partners to deal with it, and ended up with a massive fail on their hands.  They fired the head of Windows and are suffering the consequences of a rapidly shrinking market.

History is repeating itself rather quickly, showing that Microsoft is blinded by its hubris. Next Xbox always online?  No ability to trade/lend/sell your games (which I might add is the ONLY reason they are worth $60 a pop)? Same hardware architecture as a PC, except it's a closed platform?    Sorry, I can build a gaming PC for the same price, have all the benefits and no bullshiat.  And it will be running Windows 7.
 
2013-04-11 10:32:45 AM
Even if we accept the idea that we have always on connections, many ISPs have monthly caps or are moving in the direction of monthly caps.  So why would I want a console that is going to use my connection when I don't want it to and eat into my cap space?
 
2013-04-11 10:35:52 AM
Incin:Sorry, I can build a gaming PC for the same price, have all the benefits and no bullshiat.  And it will be running Windows 7.

Welcome to 2 generations of consoles ago, Incin. I may not have a lot of money but I have enough to save up for a rig that will run 360-quality games. Not on high... but hey, it works.

And it has Steam. That's always gangbusters for deals and such.
 
2013-04-11 10:38:10 AM

ha-ha-guy: Even if we accept the idea that we have always on connections, many ISPs have monthly caps or are moving in the direction of monthly caps.  So why would I want a console that is going to use my connection when I don't want it to and eat into my cap space?


So...what happens if you just hook one of these to it:
i.imgur.com
And clap when you're done gaming for the day/session?  Does it do bad things if you pull the plug?
 
2013-04-11 10:39:04 AM

prjindigo: Cope.


It's a product/service we pay for, in an industry filled with people who make the internet work. It should come as no surprise that we:
-see right through the "convenience" bullshiat
-have strong opinions about a medium we grew up with (and helped shape into the billions-a-year industry it is today)
-get all pissy when someone on the internet insults our intelligence (or even us personally)
-use the internet (and its concomitant power to effect change) to get relief for these slights

We are coping.
 
2013-04-11 10:44:21 AM

Incin: Good riddance, but it's barely a start.  His #dealwithit attitude is probably a symptom of working at Microsoft too long - it permeates their whole culture now.  Remember all the pre-release negative feedback about Windows 8?  Consumers saying they didn't want a tablet OS on their PC, OEMs being pushed around about making mostly touchscreen PCs (not to mention the backstabbing with their Surface Pro), even all of the analysts knew it would flop.  MS brazenly charged forward, telling their consumers and partners to deal with it, and ended up with a massive fail on their hands.  They fired the head of Windows and are suffering the consequences of a rapidly shrinking market.

History is repeating itself rather quickly, showing that Microsoft is blinded by its hubris. Next Xbox always online?  No ability to trade/lend/sell your games (which I might add is the ONLY reason they are worth $60 a pop)? Same hardware architecture as a PC, except it's a closed platform?    Sorry, I can build a gaming PC for the same price, have all the benefits and no bullshiat.  And it will be running Windows 7.


TFA said he was hired in 2012. Forget it, you're rolling.

Orth, who joined Microsoft in February 2012 to work on the next Xbox design team at the gargantuan company's Redmond headquarters, angered a number of gamers, particularly on Reddit, but he has been defended in some quarters. God of War and Twisted Metal director David Jaffe described Orth as "a good, good guy and a real talent" in a post on NeoGAF.

I'd be more worried MS let a good gaming talent get away because he couldn't be arsed not to be trolled on twitter.
 
2013-04-11 10:45:42 AM

dahmers love zombie: ha-ha-guy: Even if we accept the idea that we have always on connections, many ISPs have monthly caps or are moving in the direction of monthly caps.  So why would I want a console that is going to use my connection when I don't want it to and eat into my cap space?

So...what happens if you just hook one of these to it:
[i.imgur.com image 220x220]
And clap when you're done gaming for the day/session?  Does it do bad things if you pull the plug?


The point is that reports so far suggest you won't be able to engage in single player games without first phoning home and communicating with the server, so it costs me part of my bandwidth cap just to open Forza and play a few tracks on my own.
 
2013-04-11 10:54:18 AM
Guess he's having issues staying connected to the employment servers.
 
2013-04-11 10:56:15 AM
The original point made to Orthy is correct.  I live in a large, well connected metropolis.  At least once a month, my internet will drop during my gaming sessions.  I will react by switching to a single player game 'til it comes back up.  Internet is much less reliable that electricity, too.  If the system has to connect to play, then I cannot use my expensive device while circumstances beyond my control have me disconnected.  And to say, "just move" is simply ridiculous.
 
2013-04-11 10:56:22 AM
"So he's been let go, then?"

"No, we fixed the glitch. He'll no longer receive a paycheck, so things will just work themselves out naturally."
 
2013-04-11 10:56:43 AM
I understand what Orth meant by we are increasingly always connected.  However the total lack of tact by a PR guy on a public forum like twitter earned him exactly what he got. Especially since he cannot officially comment on the Kotaku rumor that had the gaming community speculating on "always on".  Even if all our devices are connected when their was a fiasco less then two weeks previous you better use some discretion.

Until Microsoft actually puts its cards on the table the relentless speculation will continue.   Until they do I will discount them.
 
2013-04-11 11:03:12 AM
The suggestion was made on Slashdot that what might have happened is Orth lost an internal debate at Microsoft regarding the always on feature and took it to Twitter to continue to argue his case.  That would've been the fireable offense, the callous comments towards people in places like Wisconsin and Virginia were just the cherry on top of his smarmy attitude towards customers that Microsoft is trying to put damage control on.

I get the attitude too, as the poster above talks about in Seattle, I've seen this attitude crop up in places like Austin and Kansas City (Overland Park) towards the people who live outside of those metro areas.  It's understandable to a point, intellectual, youthful, etc, but it's bad business and it's generally a poor attitude to take in life.  I hope this guy figures this out and learns from it.  There's a reason why people hate hipsters.
 
2013-04-11 11:10:28 AM
what a shiat for brains.
 
2013-04-11 11:12:38 AM

RKade: Incin:Sorry, I can build a gaming PC for the same price, have all the benefits and no bullshiat.  And it will be running Windows 7.

Welcome to 2 generations of consoles ago, Incin. I may not have a lot of money but I have enough to save up for a rig that will run 360-quality games. Not on high... but hey, it works.

And it has Steam. That's always gangbusters for deals and such.


Consoles are getting better at the whole sales thing, but they don't seem to slash prices as much as some of the winter/summer sales.  I think it's due to not all console games being digital releases yet, and trying not to piss off the retailer stores by undercutting them so badly on still major titles.

Which is odd, because physical prices are falling pretty sharply these days.  I picked up RE 6 for $15 less then 6 months after release.  Metal Gear rising dropped $20 in some places as well, after less then a month.

I'd kill for regular steam style sales, at least on psn/xbla games and some of their games on demand titles.  Outside of PSplus though, you can't really get major stuff dirt cheap or even free.  Hopefully that changes next gen.

Till then, i'll stay 2/3rd pc gaming, 1/3rd console.
 
2013-04-11 11:17:38 AM
Yet the people who created Metro probably mostly still have jobs.
 
2013-04-11 11:18:03 AM
Here's what it comes down to... if you get to the point where you are so high up in a company where you are a "creative director" or a near exec position like that, you can no longer do things like "my opinions are of my own and do not represent the company I work for", especially on your public Twitter or Facebook accounts.

Christ... has no one learned from companies like Chick-fil-A, or the numerous other ones that have CEOs or other execs run their mouths in a public forum? When you get to that point, you've got to watch what you say, and be prepared to lay down on the sword if you fark up.
 
2013-04-11 11:24:25 AM

Generation_D: xanadian: BioWare is full of pretty smart people, it would seem...

Well, they managed to troll the creative head of XBOX to get his dumb ass fired, if thats what you mean.


How did they troll him?
 
2013-04-11 11:29:34 AM

FuturePastNow: Yet the people who created Metro probably mostly still have jobs.


The people who created Metro didn't go on Twitter and tell their user base that they're farking morons for not embracing their potential design decisions.

What's even more hilarious is people in the industry blaming the internet:

i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-11 11:34:20 AM

TheBlackrose: FuturePastNow: Yet the people who created Metro probably mostly still have jobs.

The people who created Metro didn't go on Twitter and tell their user base that they're farking morons for not embracing their potential design decisions.

What's even more hilarious is people in the industry blaming the internet:

[i.imgur.com image 522x430]


So Grant Shonkwiler is the next target?
 
2013-04-11 11:34:33 AM
Jeff: He'll get over it
 
2013-04-11 11:35:17 AM
So the always online feature is being removed?

What's that? They just fired some random guy no one had heard of until he opened his stupid social media hole? And the always online thing is going forward anyway?

Nice job, good effort.
 
2013-04-11 11:37:17 AM

js34603: So the always online feature is being removed?

What's that? They just fired some random guy no one had heard of until he opened his stupid social media hole? And the always online thing is going forward anyway?

Nice job, good effort.


There is no confirmation about the function even existing in the first place,  just rumors and speculation.

Of course, rumor and speculation is the lifeblood of the internet.
 
2013-04-11 11:39:47 AM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 I ain't saying it's right. But you're saying "always on" don't mean nothing, and I'm saying it does.  And when the internet gets a burr up it's ass about something  you don't give it a target to focus on, cause the internet will throw them into a glass motherfarking house.You know it,farking Marsellus knew it, and Adam Orth should have farking better known better.
 
2013-04-11 11:45:02 AM
Would've been hilarious if instead of firing/forcing him to resign, they assigned him to a branch of MS located in Janesville, WI or Blacksburg, VA.  I couldn't be happier to see this news though.  And the fact that Cliff Bleszinski appears to be upset by it just further affirms to me that this is a good thing.
 
2013-04-11 11:54:35 AM
Unless things have changed recently, Blacksburg is very connected.
 
2013-04-11 11:55:18 AM

TheBlackrose: What's even more hilarious is people in the industry blaming the internet:


Why the hell don't people learn that you should NOT badmouth your customers? WTF???
 
2013-04-11 12:05:01 PM
Here's my thing:

I'm looking into going back into the circus. I'd like to be able to play videogames on those long train runs. Obviously living and traveling by train means I won't have any internet connection unless I get a Sprint Hotspot or something. But that is not really good for gaming. So am I just doomed to play old gaming systems then that don't require internet access to play?
 
2013-04-11 12:08:10 PM

Richard_The_Clown: Here's my thing:

I'm looking into going back into the circus. I'd like to be able to play videogames on those long train runs. Obviously living and traveling by train means I won't have any internet connection unless I get a Sprint Hotspot or something. But that is not really good for gaming. So am I just doomed to play old gaming systems then that don't require internet access to play?


How would you use a console on a train? Do they have TVs that you can plug into? Honestly I've never been on a train that went further than a couple miles.

You'd probably be better off getting a gaming laptop and Steam. A decent mouse and you'd be set. Be sure to enable offline mode prior to hopping on the train, just to make sure.
 
2013-04-11 12:08:10 PM
i3.kym-cdn.com
Pffffffft.... amateur.
 
2013-04-11 12:08:43 PM

Burr: Jeff: He'll get over it


He'll get ov

DAMNIT
 
2013-04-11 12:10:14 PM
The most important lesson out of all this:  The internet is a terrible place.  Don't ever go there.
 
2013-04-11 12:14:56 PM

RoxtarRyan: TheBlackrose: What's even more hilarious is people in the industry blaming the internet:

Why the hell don't people learn that you should NOT badmouth your customers? WTF???


It's not even that. I mean, badmouthing your user base is such an obvious "don't do this." But when your account's profile puts your company's position on a pedestal and you proceed to cause a shiatstorm, that little "views does not represent the company" boilerplate won't save you.

However, what burns my goat is more the industry people playing the blame game. We've grown up in an age where personal responsibility no longer means anything. Whenever we as an individual do something wrong, it has to be someone else's fault. It just has to be. It can never be your own fault. Admitting you did something wrong or that something is your fault is perceived as a weakness.

The best I've seen thus far is people going, "HE WASN'T FIRED, HE RESIGNED." Guess people have never heard of a forced resignation before.

/This is corporate politics 101
 
2013-04-11 12:17:44 PM

Dr Dreidel: Even if he personally disagrees, even if the company disagrees, his job is to make the consumer understand why they disagree and how they can bridge the gap. Not to "troll", further antagonize, or play tone-deaf.


This. To me, there is no other way to look at this situation. Maybe it's because I occupy a public facing position in the field of IT and have to do this stuff all the time so I'm biased. The temptation a lot of the time is to take a very hard-line position (like he did) when you *know* the best way to do something and you just need people to buy into it. It gets tiring having to explain your position when doing so requires the general public to know everything that you do, and getting them on board involves details with which they have no experience. But that's the job, isn't it? Getting them to buy into the plan and understand it-- not dismiss concerns with "too bad, so sad" or an insulting comment. He can be the nicest guy in the world, but he was obviously wrong for that job.
 
2013-04-11 12:19:13 PM

Burr: js34603: So the always online feature is being removed?

What's that? They just fired some random guy no one had heard of until he opened his stupid social media hole? And the always online thing is going forward anyway?

Nice job, good effort.

There is no confirmation about the function even existing in the first place,  just rumors and speculation.

Of course, rumor and speculation is the lifeblood of the internet.


Actually. . .about that MS announced it in their own press release.  Media outlets picked up on it.  The rage spread and Sony basically came out and said 'Yea good thing WE'RE not doing that'.  Maybe the outrage will cause MS to change this 'feature' but I doubt it.
 
2013-04-11 12:20:35 PM
fark that guy
"why would I live there?" because you're unemployed and can't afford living in your ivory tower anymore, prick. it's hard to look down on people when you're at the bottom.
get farked
/yeah I know he'll be back in cushjobville in a week
 
2013-04-11 12:22:30 PM

TheBlackrose: FuturePastNow: Yet the people who created Metro probably mostly still have jobs.

The people who created Metro didn't go on Twitter and tell their user base that they're farking morons for not embracing their potential design decisions.

What's even more hilarious is people in the industry blaming the internet:

[i.imgur.com image 522x430]


Wow, what an idiot.  Hey Grant, how 'bout you get out of that ivory tower and start living amongst the common folk, ey?
 
2013-04-11 12:23:45 PM

r00tdenied: Actually. . .about that MS announced it in their own press release.  Media outlets picked up on it.  The rage spread and Sony basically came out and said 'Yea good thing WE'RE not doing that'.  Maybe the outrage will cause MS to change this 'feature' but I doubt it.


encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-04-11 12:24:02 PM

r00tdenied: Burr: js34603: So the always online feature is being removed?

What's that? They just fired some random guy no one had heard of until he opened his stupid social media hole? And the always online thing is going forward anyway?

Nice job, good effort.

There is no confirmation about the function even existing in the first place,  just rumors and speculation.

Of course, rumor and speculation is the lifeblood of the internet.

Actually. . .about that MS announced it in their own press release.  Media outlets picked up on it.  The rage spread and Sony basically came out and said 'Yea good thing WE'RE not doing that'.  Maybe the outrage will cause MS to change this 'feature' but I doubt it.


i1.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-04-11 12:27:40 PM

Trocadero: Burr: Jeff: He'll get over it

He'll get ov

DAMNIT


To be honest, I was surprised that I was the first...

Fark be slippin!
 
2013-04-11 12:28:29 PM

Burr: js34603: So the always online feature is being removed?

What's that? They just fired some random guy no one had heard of until he opened his stupid social media hole? And the always online thing is going forward anyway?

Nice job, good effort.

There is no confirmation about the function even existing in the first place,  just rumors and speculation.

Of course, rumor and speculation is the lifeblood of the internet.


Granted, a lot of the net is trusting the sources of the leaks because they were right about a lot of the Wii U, 3ds, and ps4 stuff, as well as some vita stuff.

So when they say this or that about the next Xbox, folks were buying it, although, the info in the leaks appeared to be much older then the playstation or nintendo stuff.

It's become pretty obvious that a lot of the real accurate stuff has got to be right from the companies themselves.  Sony seems to be the most comfortable doing that, with Nintendo the most secret. MS tends to be in between, but very tight lipped, till yesterday, on the xbox.
 
2013-04-11 12:29:47 PM

scottydoesntknow: i1.kym-cdn.com


hahaha
 
2013-04-11 12:31:27 PM
I don't know anything about Janesville, WI beyond their closed auto plant and being Paul Ryan's hometown, but Blacksburg, VA is the home of Virginia Tech.  I'd be willing to wager that Microsoft hires people out of there all the time, and enjoys the revenues that tens of thousands of engineering students pump into their gaming business.

Why would someone want to live in Blacksburg?  To become a tech-biz employee, like Orth.
 
2013-04-11 12:33:06 PM

Antimatter: Burr: js34603: So the always online feature is being removed?

What's that? They just fired some random guy no one had heard of until he opened his stupid social media hole? And the always online thing is going forward anyway?

Nice job, good effort.

There is no confirmation about the function even existing in the first place,  just rumors and speculation.

Of course, rumor and speculation is the lifeblood of the internet.

Granted, a lot of the net is trusting the sources of the leaks because they were right about a lot of the Wii U, 3ds, and ps4 stuff, as well as some vita stuff.

So when they say this or that about the next Xbox, folks were buying it, although, the info in the leaks appeared to be much older then the playstation or nintendo stuff.

It's become pretty obvious that a lot of the real accurate stuff has got to be right from the companies themselves.  Sony seems to be the most comfortable doing that, with Nintendo the most secret. MS tends to be in between, but very tight lipped, till yesterday, on the xbox.


Usually, it is a good bet with tech stuff that it is more then likely accurate.  I am having a hard time thinking of an incident where something was rumored and turned out to be not true (I'm sure somebody around here can give an example)

Still, until I see it from MS, it is just a rumor to me.
 
2013-04-11 12:33:13 PM

theurge14: The suggestion was made on Slashdot that what might have happened is Orth lost an internal debate at Microsoft regarding the always on feature and took it to Twitter to continue to argue his case.


People have managed to read really far into a couple of twitter comments and game site rumors.
 
2013-04-11 12:34:35 PM

TheBlackrose: RoxtarRyan: TheBlackrose: What's even more hilarious is people in the industry blaming the internet:

Why the hell don't people learn that you should NOT badmouth your customers? WTF???

It's not even that. I mean, badmouthing your user base is such an obvious "don't do this." But when your account's profile puts your company's position on a pedestal and you proceed to cause a shiatstorm, that little "views does not represent the company" boilerplate won't save you.

However, what burns my goat is more the industry people playing the blame game. We've grown up in an age where personal responsibility no longer means anything. Whenever we as an individual do something wrong, it has to be someone else's fault. It just has to be. It can never be your own fault. Admitting you did something wrong or that something is your fault is perceived as a weakness.

The best I've seen thus far is people going, "HE WASN'T FIRED, HE RESIGNED." Guess people have never heard of a forced resignation before.

/This is corporate politics 101


Nailed it dead-on.
 
2013-04-11 12:34:51 PM

scottydoesntknow: How would you use a console on a train? Do they have TVs that you can plug into? Honestly I've never been on a train that went further than a couple miles.

You'd probably be better off getting a gaming laptop and Steam. A decent mouse and you'd be set. Be sure to enable offline mode prior to hopping on the train, just to make sure.


I'll tell you one group this feature will piss off: the military grunt.  Yeah, believe it or not they play lots of console games on submarines, ships, and FOBs in their downtime.  Then they spend mad cash on games and systems for their barracks rooms back at home.  "Always on" means the new XBOX is a non-starter for many deployed military units.

But hey, what's a few hundred thousand customers?
 
2013-04-11 12:36:43 PM

Burr: Still, until I see it from MS, it is just a rumor to me


Pretty much.  The same sites that said they had anonymous sources telling them that the console was always connected now have leaks telling them that it's not.  If they need ad revenue from clicks next week then it will be always connected again or some bullshiat.
 
2013-04-11 12:37:54 PM

Lumbar Puncture: theurge14: The suggestion was made on Slashdot that what might have happened is Orth lost an internal debate at Microsoft regarding the always on feature and took it to Twitter to continue to argue his case.

People have managed to read really far into a couple of twitter comments and game site rumors.


And that's the problem Microsoft got out of this.
 
2013-04-11 12:38:51 PM

Burr: Antimatter: Burr: js34603: So the always online feature is being removed?

What's that? They just fired some random guy no one had heard of until he opened his stupid social media hole? And the always online thing is going forward anyway?

Nice job, good effort.

There is no confirmation about the function even existing in the first place,  just rumors and speculation.

Of course, rumor and speculation is the lifeblood of the internet.

Granted, a lot of the net is trusting the sources of the leaks because they were right about a lot of the Wii U, 3ds, and ps4 stuff, as well as some vita stuff.

So when they say this or that about the next Xbox, folks were buying it, although, the info in the leaks appeared to be much older then the playstation or nintendo stuff.

It's become pretty obvious that a lot of the real accurate stuff has got to be right from the companies themselves.  Sony seems to be the most comfortable doing that, with Nintendo the most secret. MS tends to be in between, but very tight lipped, till yesterday, on the xbox.

Usually, it is a good bet with tech stuff that it is more then likely accurate.  I am having a hard time thinking of an incident where something was rumored and turned out to be not true (I'm sure somebody around here can give an example)

Still, until I see it from MS, it is just a rumor to me.


There are a ton of rumors about this or that sony is doing with a console based off their patent filings.  A lot of folks predicted no used games for the ps3 due to that.  that one ended up being false in the end.

As it turns out, sony patents all kinds of stuff, just because they thought it up.  Quite a bit doesn't seem to make it into their systems.  for example, they had some enhanced psmove patents, and some split-controller dualshock patents.  the current DS4 seems to be a hybrid of several of them, including move esque gyros and the lightbar, but otherwise holding more in common with the Ds3 then the split controller in the patent.

But yeah, the ones based on actual hardware/dev kits tends to be true.
 
2013-04-11 12:41:13 PM

factoryconnection: scottydoesntknow: How would you use a console on a train? Do they have TVs that you can plug into? Honestly I've never been on a train that went further than a couple miles.

You'd probably be better off getting a gaming laptop and Steam. A decent mouse and you'd be set. Be sure to enable offline mode prior to hopping on the train, just to make sure.

I'll tell you one group this feature will piss off: the military grunt.  Yeah, believe it or not they play lots of console games on submarines, ships, and FOBs in their downtime.  Then they spend mad cash on games and systems for their barracks rooms back at home.  "Always on" means the new XBOX is a non-starter for many deployed military units.

But hey, what's a few hundred thousand customers?


Is it true there is a standing rule to never play DEFCON while stationed at NORAD, just in case?
 
2013-04-11 12:41:52 PM

Erix: "And he's a nice guy as well. He teases and f**** around - like so many of us on the net do - and yeah, he tweeted without thinking (like many of us on the net do) and he just got very unlucky."

Yes, that sure was some bad luck there.  No way to have seen it coming, poor bloke.


+1. That day I made douchy, arrogant comments tied to a product I worked on, my real name and my employer's name was simply the unluckiest day of my life. #dealingwithunemployment
 
2013-04-11 12:44:41 PM

factoryconnection: I'll tell you one group this feature will piss off: the military grunt.


The guy who plays "Francis" covers that very well.
 
2013-04-11 12:45:25 PM

prjindigo: its all bullshiat
Your computer is always on unless you rock the power switch on the back.

Your toaster, dishwasher, washing machine and dryer are always on.

Cope.   Why the fark would you want to play an entire array of multiplayer games offline?


Seriously, the bigger shiat is the lack of fanboi outcry over the unit being 100% AMD hardware and still costing nearly twice as much as the equivalent APU system it shares spec with.



If a washing machine required a constant internet connection, would you buy it?
 
2013-04-11 12:52:44 PM

prjindigo: Cope. Why the fark would you want to play an entire array of multiplayer games offline?


You are a soldier on deployment.

/checkmate
 
2013-04-11 12:53:39 PM

zero7717: If a washing machine required a constant internet connection, would you buy it?


If that connection provided useful benefits? Yes.

However, if in the absence of that connection, my washing machine refused to wash clothes or locked down the lid or the agitator didn't spin or I could only use cold water settings - basically, if the main function(s) of the thing were rendered useless by the lack of connection - HELL NO I would not buy it.

Especially if the company refused to acknowledge the very obvious use-case problems with a device that operates that way - in that case, not only does the OEM not care about the product they're selling, but they don't even care about the people who bought it.
 
2013-04-11 12:57:41 PM
You know what's going to be hilarious? This guy lost his job and in a month Microsoft is going to announce the next XBox with an always on feature. And you know what? They are going to tell you to #dealwithit.
 
2013-04-11 12:57:51 PM

Dr Dreidel: zero7717: If a washing machine required a constant internet connection, would you buy it?

If that connection provided useful benefits? Yes.

However, if in the absence of that connection, my washing machine refused to wash clothes or locked down the lid or the agitator didn't spin or I could only use cold water settings - basically, if the main function(s) of the thing were rendered useless by the lack of connection - HELL NO I would not buy it.


Well that's what REQUIRED and CONSTANT means.
So your answer is no.
 
2013-04-11 12:58:07 PM

fluffy2097: prjindigo: Cope. Why the fark would you want to play an entire array of multiplayer games offline?

You are a soldier on deployment.

/checkmate


Or one of the many countries they sell the system in with spotty or areas with no internet.  They don't support Xbox Live in all the countries they even sell the Xbox in.  It was a dumb rumor to begin with.
 
2013-04-11 01:00:31 PM
Do I believe that MS leaked the story as a trial balloon in order to see how the general public would take it? Yes.
Do I believe they have received a reply that will ensure this feature is optional in the released product? Yes.

Do I believe that the internet hates MS enough to not shut up about it? YES!!
 
2013-04-11 01:11:42 PM
I would be pissed if the next Xbox doesn't have an always on requirement.  People need to move into the farking twenty-first century.  And if that means you can't get an xbox until you lobby your crappy po-dunk town council for municipal broadband, so farking be it.

Unless, of course, you live somewhere like North Carolina where municipal broadband is illegal because it steps on the toes of Time Warner.  Then tell Microsoft to pick a fight with Time Warner and grab some popcorn.
 
2013-04-11 01:12:54 PM
scottydoesntknow:

i1.kym-cdn.com


You, sir, made me laugh. Thank you.
 
2013-04-11 01:17:16 PM
"You've lived in LA, San Francisco, Seattle... very connected places. Try living in Janesville, WI or Blackburg, VA," Heir countered.

I'm from Janesville. Never realy had an issue. I live in an even smaller city now and commute to Milwaukee. Still dont have issue. I lost internet once I think in the 4 years. I hear more complaining about it from people who live downtown.

/Always on is farking stupid.
//the internet hate fir people and places not on the coast is starting to get really annoying
 
2013-04-11 01:18:25 PM
i.qkme.me
 
2013-04-11 01:21:33 PM
Here's what I predict for the new Xbox:

Models & features that will require an "always-on" internet connection to work:
1. The subsidized/cheaper model (since it has to be subsidized by rotating new ads)
2. People who want to use the new device's cable TV pass thru feature, since it'll have to get content data online
3. Xbox live gold features (duh)
4. Online gaming (duh)

Models & features that won't require an "always-on" internet connection:
1. The full priced model
2. Playing single player games on the full priced model
3. Watching DVD/blueray content on the full priced model

And when it's announced, the blogosphere & internet will proclaim that this is all because of pressure from all the whining people online.

I could be totally off, and offline users will be screwed but that's what I think will happen.
 
2013-04-11 01:33:09 PM

MrSteve007: And when it's announced, the blogosphere & internet will proclaim that this is all because of pressure from all the whining people online.

I could be totally off, and offline users will be screwed but that's what I think will happen.


I think you're totally right except that you failed to predict that a sizable contingent will still whine about things like needing to be always-on for the subsidized model and Xbox Live gold continuing to be a subscription service.
 
2013-04-11 01:36:05 PM
i.imgur.com
He certainly has to.
 
2013-04-11 01:46:40 PM
It's nice to see that the days of large companies (or people that work for large companies) pissing in customer's mouths and ordering them to swallow is coming to an end. Personal responsibility: It's endangered but not extinct.
 
2013-04-11 01:50:52 PM

Straight to doom: [i.imgur.com image 596x463]


wat
 
2013-04-11 01:52:58 PM

mooseyfate: It's nice to see that the days of large companies (or people that work for large companies) pissing in customer's mouths and ordering them to swallow is coming to an end.


Diablo 3 came out less than a year ago.  Have they changed since then?

/will assign blame for the death of the gaming industry squarely on activision/blizzard
//much rather consumers have the willpower to say no to a few video games to prevent us going down this road
///hate this road, hate kids on lawn
 
2013-04-11 01:59:04 PM

factoryconnection: scottydoesntknow: How would you use a console on a train? Do they have TVs that you can plug into? Honestly I've never been on a train that went further than a couple miles.

You'd probably be better off getting a gaming laptop and Steam. A decent mouse and you'd be set. Be sure to enable offline mode prior to hopping on the train, just to make sure.

I'll tell you one group this feature will piss off: the military grunt.  Yeah, believe it or not they play lots of console games on submarines, ships, and FOBs in their downtime.  Then they spend mad cash on games and systems for their barracks rooms back at home.  "Always on" means the new XBOX is a non-starter for many deployed military units.

But hey, what's a few hundred thousand customers?


If I'm Sony I'm doing another Hall of Play style console/game shipment overseas on launch day.
 
2013-04-11 02:01:22 PM

Antimatter: Is it true there is a standing rule to never play DEFCON while stationed at NORAD, just in case?


Presumably you can't watch Wargames on your tablet either.
 
2013-04-11 02:07:45 PM

MrSteve007: Here's what I predict for the new Xbox:

Models & features that will require an "always-on" internet connection to work:
1. The subsidized/cheaper model (since it has to be subsidized by rotating new ads)
2. People who want to use the new device's cable TV pass thru feature, since it'll have to get content data online
3. Xbox live gold features (duh)
4. Online gaming (duh)

Models & features that won't require an "always-on" internet connection:
1. The full priced model
2. Playing single player games on the full priced model
3. Watching DVD/blueray content on the full priced model

And when it's announced, the blogosphere & internet will proclaim that this is all because of pressure from all the whining people online.

I could be totally off, and offline users will be screwed but that's what I think will happen.


I wonder if you'll be able to block ads on the new xbox like you can with the 360.
 
2013-04-11 02:17:40 PM
upload.wikimedia.org

upload.wikimedia.org

Explain to me the reason I need to be on the internet to play these games?

The only possible reason is for MS to make sure I am not stealing them.

It's why my Rock Band 1/2/3 DLC won't work unless I am logged into an internet connection. Not every game has multiplayer. So let's not kid ourselves into thinking that the main reason for a perm connection is a major company wanting to control piracy.

Can they do that? Absolutley. Do they HAVE to do that? Absolutley not.
 
2013-04-11 02:26:39 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: [upload.wikimedia.org image 249x353]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 256x322]

Explain to me the reason I need to be on the internet to play these games?

The only possible reason is for MS to make sure I am not stealing them.

It's why my Rock Band 1/2/3 DLC won't work unless I am logged into an internet connection. Not every game has multiplayer. So let's not kid ourselves into thinking that the main reason for a perm connection is a major company NOT wanting to control piracy.

Can they do that? Absolutley. Do they HAVE to do that? Absolutley not.


Points make more damn sense when you include ALL the words.
 
2013-04-11 02:41:21 PM

ha-ha-guy: dahmers love zombie: ha-ha-guy: Even if we accept the idea that we have always on connections, many ISPs have monthly caps or are moving in the direction of monthly caps.  So why would I want a console that is going to use my connection when I don't want it to and eat into my cap space?

So...what happens if you just hook one of these to it:
[i.imgur.com image 220x220]
And clap when you're done gaming for the day/session?  Does it do bad things if you pull the plug?

The point is that reports so far suggest you won't be able to engage in single player games without first phoning home and communicating with the server, so it costs me part of my bandwidth cap just to open Forza and play a few tracks on my own.


That 10k of data will put you over the 250 gig limit that Comcast gives you.  My family does a ton of online gaming and Netflix to the point of one of them are running from at least 4pm till midnight.  The last 3 months we average 70GB of data used, the xbox doesn't use that much data when it's running multiplayer games.
 
2013-04-11 02:45:33 PM
i.imgur.com
The way I read the exchange, it sounded more like Orth was a bit of an ass who didn't know that you don't get to build the hardware you WANT to build, you get to build the hardware your customer wants to buy. If he didn't know that one simple thing, he needs to find another job.
Also, your customer may not live in downtown LA or Seattle, and it might still be nice to sell him a product- that you're talking to someone who a) bought your last one, and b) is considering buying your next one sight-unseen but has concerns about being able to use the product should be taken as an opportunity to gain insight into your potential market for free, not an occasion to ridicule the heathens in flyover country who are so insignificant and unimportant to you. They weren't unimportant to Microsoft's stockholders, so Orth doesn't have a job.

Full disclosure: I own Microsoft stock, and I'm glad Orth is gone.
 
2013-04-11 02:45:46 PM

MrSteve007: Here's what I predict for the new Xbox:

Models & features that will require an "always-on" internet connection to work:
1. The subsidized/cheaper model (since it has to be subsidized by rotating new ads)
2. People who want to use the new device's cable TV pass thru feature, since it'll have to get content data online
3. Xbox live gold features (duh)
4. Online gaming (duh)

Models & features that won't require an "always-on" internet connection:
1. The full priced model
2. Playing single player games on the full priced model
3. Watching DVD/blueray content on the full priced model

And when it's announced, the blogosphere & internet will proclaim that this is all because of pressure from all the whining people online.

I could be totally off, and offline users will be screwed but that's what I think will happen.


You analysis, sir, is both intelligent and plausible.

What the hell are you doing on Fark?
 
2013-04-11 02:50:28 PM

TNel: That 10k of data will put you over the 250 gig limit that Comcast gives you. My family does a ton of online gaming and Netflix to the point of one of them are running from at least 4pm till midnight. The last 3 months we average 70GB of data used, the xbox doesn't use that much data when it's running multiplayer games.


#1: Comcast got rid of their cap, at least temporarily.
#2: There are people in this country with ISPs with caps FAR lower than what Comcast had... maybe 5GB/month. Yes. A home ISP, not a wireless hotspot.
 
2013-04-11 02:52:21 PM

Elegy: MrSteve007: Here's what I predict for the new Xbox:

Models & features that will require an "always-on" internet connection to work:
1. The subsidized/cheaper model (since it has to be subsidized by rotating new ads)
2. People who want to use the new device's cable TV pass thru feature, since it'll have to get content data online
3. Xbox live gold features (duh)
4. Online gaming (duh)

Models & features that won't require an "always-on" internet connection:
1. The full priced model
2. Playing single player games on the full priced model
3. Watching DVD/blueray content on the full priced model

And when it's announced, the blogosphere & internet will proclaim that this is all because of pressure from all the whining people online.

I could be totally off, and offline users will be screwed but that's what I think will happen.

You analysis, sir, is both intelligent and plausible.

What the hell are you doing on Fark?


Not really. This is Microsoft we are talking about. This guy makes sense, so therefore it won't happen.
 
2013-04-11 02:58:25 PM
This should have been all the lesson that Orth needed.

 http://wwebsiteasontheinternet.com/


But of course too soon are the lessons of the past forgotten.

/Christoforo: Never Forget
 
2013-04-11 03:12:04 PM

RoxtarRyan: TNel: That 10k of data will put you over the 250 gig limit that Comcast gives you. My family does a ton of online gaming and Netflix to the point of one of them are running from at least 4pm till midnight. The last 3 months we average 70GB of data used, the xbox doesn't use that much data when it's running multiplayer games.

#1: Comcast got rid of their cap, at least temporarily.
#2: There are people in this country with ISPs with caps FAR lower than what Comcast had... maybe 5GB/month. Yes. A home ISP, not a wireless hotspot.


"Note:enforcement of the 250GB data consumption threshold is currently suspended  "  Wow I am impressed thanks for making me look a bit closer at my online stats.

If you are capped that low you are not using Netflix or online gaming so my point will still stand the amount of data used to phone home is very small.  According to Comcast  "their median monthly data usage is currently only 12 to 14 GB per month" for all users, which would be pretty shocking that a broadband subscriber would limit someone to 5GB of data.
 
2013-04-11 03:12:55 PM

Well I use Mac/Linux...: Would've been hilarious if instead of firing/forcing him to resign, they assigned him to a branch of MS located in Janesville, WI or Blacksburg, VA.  I couldn't be happier to see this news though.  And the fact that Cliff Bleszinski appears to be upset by it just further affirms to me that this is a good thing.


pssft after GM arse raped Janesville, they might actually take him so we could have at least one job in the city.
 
2013-04-11 03:14:38 PM

prjindigo: its all bullshiat
Your computer is always on unless you rock the power switch on the back.

Your toaster, dishwasher, washing machine and dryer are always on.

Cope.   Why the fark would you want to play an entire array of multiplayer games offline?


Seriously, the bigger shiat is the lack of fanboi outcry over the unit being 100% AMD hardware and still costing nearly twice as much as the equivalent APU system it shares spec with.


I know I'm feeding a troll, but I'll poke back on a couple points.

As far as the gaming demographic goes, I fall squarely in the "old curmudgeon" quadrant.  I have a life outside gaming, and don't necessarily want to share my gaming experience with the hordes (see what i did there?) of console monkeys who haven't seen sunlight since grade school and spend way too much time playing whack-a-mole with the n00bs like me who just want to play a quick game.  I actually buy games for the single player campaign mode, because I like being able to pick up the plot thread every so often when family, work, etc. gives me a couple spare hours.  If my game has to call the mothership every time I have the spare time to play, and my bandwidth is already taken up by the Roku in the other room, or a VPN connection to my client because I'm uploading a metric farkton of analysis metrics, or any number of reasons I can't snag a good connection, then my gaming experience is diminished.  And don't tell me to "deal with it" because I'm not the major demo they're selling to.  My dollars are just as green as yours and I'll happily spend them on something that WILL suit my needs.

/My lawn.  Get off it.
/'Cause I'm spawncamped on it.
 
2013-04-11 03:38:37 PM
Even though I thought his comments were dickish and plain stupid, I can sympathize on a personal level with his firing as we all do stupid shiat in the heat of an argument sometimes.  However, MS didn't have that much of a choice with that kind of press happening, and their management should know better than to be snarky on public media.

Generation_D: Fired for expressing what many in places like Seattle believe. I'll play apologist kinda.

A bunch of us came from places like Janesville WI and Blacksburgh, VA, and got an education and left. Or found a town where they were hiring and left. Or just had enough of our inbred hometown bullsh*t and left. Made something of ourselves once we got here, competed with our brains instead of our birth certificates, and have done well in the thriving economies of Left Coast big cities. And take pride in what we've accomplished.

With pride comes arrogance, sometimes, unfortunately.

But its one thing to spout crap into anonymous forums, quite another to head up a consumer gaming group. Bad fight to pick, Orthy. You still need to sell sh*t to them. Stop telling them how a lot of us really think.

On the bright side, now you can sit all day and tweet out how much the midwest and appalachia sucks.


You know, there are big cities that exist that aren't located on the coasts. We even have indoor plumbing and such now!

/lives in KC, and so does google fiber
 
2013-04-11 03:40:34 PM

TNel: RoxtarRyan: TNel: That 10k of data will put you over the 250 gig limit that Comcast gives you. My family does a ton of online gaming and Netflix to the point of one of them are running from at least 4pm till midnight. The last 3 months we average 70GB of data used, the xbox doesn't use that much data when it's running multiplayer games.

#1: Comcast got rid of their cap, at least temporarily.
#2: There are people in this country with ISPs with caps FAR lower than what Comcast had... maybe 5GB/month. Yes. A home ISP, not a wireless hotspot.

"Note:enforcement of the 250GB data consumption threshold is currently suspended  "  Wow I am impressed thanks for making me look a bit closer at my online stats.

If you are capped that low you are not using Netflix or online gaming so my point will still stand the amount of data used to phone home is very small.  According to Comcast  "their median monthly data usage is currently only 12 to 14 GB per month" for all users, which would be pretty shocking that a broadband subscriber would limit someone to 5GB of data.


Because of my location I am limited to a Verizon mobile broadband connection.  It was the only one in range, and I get a 5GB cap a month.  I used to play WoW (quit about 3 years ago) with it and it barely took up a quarter of my cap (with an average of a few hours a day).  I finally had to quit because an update came along that was 8GB and I said screw that (I was on the verge of quitting anyway).

I can work with it, only problem is no downloads from steam (I try to get physical copies and pray to God that they don't have a huge update).  Also, the connection kicks off every once and a while.  "Always Connected" isn't for me, which is sad because I have a pretty extensive gaming library dating back to the early 90's (I have X-Wing on 3.5") and I really love gaming, but I love living in a rural area and having peace and quiet more (I hate cities).
 
2013-04-11 03:42:14 PM

r00tdenied: Burr: js34603: So the always online feature is being removed?

What's that? They just fired some random guy no one had heard of until he opened his stupid social media hole? And the always online thing is going forward anyway?

Nice job, good effort.

There is no confirmation about the function even existing in the first place,  just rumors and speculation.

Of course, rumor and speculation is the lifeblood of the internet.

Actually. . .about that MS announced it in their own press release.  Media outlets picked up on it.  The rage spread and Sony basically came out and said 'Yea good thing WE'RE not doing that'.  Maybe the outrage will cause MS to change this 'feature' but I doubt it.


I predict this may happen.

Rumors come out about needing 24/7 connectivity. People take to internet to complain, assholes try to call them stupid for complaining.  Complaints hit a breaking point, MS execs decide not to implement.

Assholes come back out and say "see, told you guys they weren't going to do it.  I am so smart, sMRT"
 
2013-04-11 03:43:35 PM

praxcelis: I fall squarely in the "old curmudgeon" quadrant. I have a life outside gaming, and don't necessarily want to share my gaming experience with the hordes (see what i did there?) of console monkeys who haven't seen sunlight since grade school and spend way too much time playing whack-a-mole with the n00bs like me who just want to play a quick game. I actually buy games for the single player campaign mode, because I like being able to pick up the plot thread every so often when family, work, etc. gives me a couple spare hours.


Hell, I'm 31 and that describes my gamer-gland pretty well, except I have more than a few spare hours here and there to get busy.

If I wanted a forced online-only ALL THE MULTIPLAYERS swarm of a clusterfarked actual-war-type scenario, I'd buy that. If XBox wants to cut its own nuts off and stop producing single-player games, they can do that instead of an always-on requirement for Skyrim.

// I wonder why no one thought of adding an MMO component to Skyrim - is it just "there can be only one Dragonborn"?
// seems to me that's the kind of game that SCREAMS for it
 
2013-04-11 03:47:19 PM

MrSteve007: Here's what I predict for the new Xbox:

Models & features that will require an "always-on" internet connection to work:
1. The subsidized/cheaper model (since it has to be subsidized by rotating new ads)
2. People who want to use the new device's cable TV pass thru feature, since it'll have to get content data online
3. Xbox live gold features (duh)
4. Online gaming (duh)

Models & features that won't require an "always-on" internet connection:
1. The full priced model
2. Playing single player games on the full priced model
3. Watching DVD/blueray content on the full priced model

And when it's announced, the blogosphere & internet will proclaim that this is all because of pressure from all the whining people online.

I could be totally off, and offline users will be screwed but that's what I think will happen.


That's what they SHOULD do, but we have no way of knowing if that was the plan or if they backed down due to pressure.

Companies should be glad to see that people are interested in their new product.  If nobody cared about the new xbox we wouldn't be talking about it.  They should also want to know what sorts of things will cause rage among their customer base, even if that rage was about something silly. Better for the web to flip out now than for MS to be surprised at launch when critics and consumers leave the boxes on the shelves.
 
2013-04-11 04:02:47 PM

Dr Dreidel: praxcelis: I fall squarely in the "old curmudgeon" quadrant. I have a life outside gaming, and don't necessarily want to share my gaming experience with the hordes (see what i did there?) of console monkeys who haven't seen sunlight since grade school and spend way too much time playing whack-a-mole with the n00bs like me who just want to play a quick game. I actually buy games for the single player campaign mode, because I like being able to pick up the plot thread every so often when family, work, etc. gives me a couple spare hours.

Hell, I'm 31 and that describes my gamer-gland pretty well, except I have more than a few spare hours here and there to get busy.

If I wanted a forced online-only ALL THE MULTIPLAYERS swarm of a clusterfarked actual-war-type scenario, I'd buy that. If XBox wants to cut its own nuts off and stop producing single-player games, they can do that instead of an always-on requirement for Skyrim.

// I wonder why no one thought of adding an MMO component to Skyrim - is it just "there can be only one Dragonborn"?
// seems to me that's the kind of game that SCREAMS for it


The game design and single player lore is set up as if you are the chosen one.  They could go wow style, and have the NPCs act as if you are the only one there / tell the story as if the player is but an observer, or GW2 style and have 'story instances' that are seperate from the general story of the world at large.  But overall, the main plot really, in their current mechanics, isn't design for multiplayer.

The elder scrolls MMO has a modified style of storytelling, IIRC, to account for this.
 
2013-04-11 04:05:20 PM

Antimatter: They could go wow style, and have the NPCs act as if you are the only one there / tell the story as if the player is but an observer, or GW2 style and have 'story instances' that are seperate from the general story of the world at large. But overall, the main plot really, in their current mechanics, isn't design for multiplayer.


I guessed that, but when I started playing, I assumed it had some MMO components (even a separate multiplayer like AC3). I was surprised to learn it doesn't.
 
2013-04-11 04:10:27 PM

Dr Dreidel: Antimatter: They could go wow style, and have the NPCs act as if you are the only one there / tell the story as if the player is but an observer, or GW2 style and have 'story instances' that are seperate from the general story of the world at large. But overall, the main plot really, in their current mechanics, isn't design for multiplayer.

I guessed that, but when I started playing, I assumed it had some MMO components (even a separate multiplayer like AC3). I was surprised to learn it doesn't.


[curmudgeonly "grmf"]

Never got the chance to play it.  My son took it with him to college.  He's promised to give it back when he's done, but he inherited my obsessive-completist "do ALL the sidequests" gene.

/grmf
 
2013-04-11 04:45:10 PM

TNel: According to Comcast "their median monthly data usage is currently only 12 to 14 GB per month" for all users, which would be pretty shocking that a broadband subscriber would limit someone to 5GB of data.


MediaCom has a 1GB cap on some users.

So yeah... there's that. Additionally, some ISPs may have decent caps, but the service? Horrible, inconsistent. DSL carriers, like AT&T, for example. I've talked to people that who are so remote, even AT&T DSL doesn't cover them... they are left with dial-up.

Hell, screw the minor bandwidth usage... That isn't what the real issue is with an "always online" console. What about people overseas, like our troops? Heaven fark forbid they relax at the end of the day of being stuck in the damn desert, away from their loved ones with their console and some friends with no internet connection. I can't tell you how nice it was to be over in Afghanistan in the middle of nowhere and be able to fire up the PS2 with some friends, or head over to to MWR tent and play some Counter Strike and relax after getting rocketed and mortared all goddamn day. Always online consoles and games? All they do is alienate a portion of their userbase.for no reason other than treating their customers like thieves and giving them Dorios ads.
 
2013-04-11 04:49:43 PM
I still don't know why you guys are arguing about bandwidth caps and the like...

Fact: not everyone has internet connection, or will be a location that has internet connection when they want to play their console. 

/end thread
 
2013-04-11 05:28:29 PM
Always on...not always on...still wouldn't have made the ending of Bioshock Infinite make any damn sense.
 
2013-04-11 05:37:01 PM

dahmers love zombie: ha-ha-guy: Even if we accept the idea that we have always on connections, many ISPs have monthly caps or are moving in the direction of monthly caps.  So why would I want a console that is going to use my connection when I don't want it to and eat into my cap space?

So...what happens if you just hook one of these to it:
[i.imgur.com image 220x220]
And clap when you're done gaming for the day/session?  Does it do bad things if you pull the plug?


Americans can't have them, they can't stop clapping
 
2013-04-11 05:58:38 PM

prjindigo: its all bullshiat
Your computer is always on unless you rock the power switch on the back.

Your toaster, dishwasher, washing machine and dryer are always on.

Cope.   Why the fark would you want to play an entire array of multiplayer games offline?


Seriously, the bigger shiat is the lack of fanboi outcry over the unit being 100% AMD hardware and still costing nearly twice as much as the equivalent APU system it shares spec with.


Not everyone likes to play online. I realize the console crowd doesn't seem to understand this, but it's true. I prefer single player games.

I stopped playing online after Counterstrike Source and Half Life 2 DM. The cheats, hacks, and foul-mouthed adolescents were more than I cared to deal with.

In fact, the only game I have played online since is Borderlands and Borderlands 2. The co-op encourages teamwork and you get better loot and more XP for it. Gearbox made a fun game and got a curmudgeon like me to enjoy playing online.

/dull story, bro
 
2013-04-11 06:14:51 PM

TNel: ha-ha-guy: dahmers love zombie: ha-ha-guy: Even if we accept the idea that we have always on connections, many ISPs have monthly caps or are moving in the direction of monthly caps.  So why would I want a console that is going to use my connection when I don't want it to and eat into my cap space?

So...what happens if you just hook one of these to it:
[i.imgur.com image 220x220]
And clap when you're done gaming for the day/session?  Does it do bad things if you pull the plug?

The point is that reports so far suggest you won't be able to engage in single player games without first phoning home and communicating with the server, so it costs me part of my bandwidth cap just to open Forza and play a few tracks on my own.

That 10k of data will put you over the 250 gig limit that Comcast gives you.  My family does a ton of online gaming and Netflix to the point of one of them are running from at least 4pm till midnight.  The last 3 months we average 70GB of data used, the xbox doesn't use that much data when it's running multiplayer games.


They canned that cap months ago.

Which is good considering what the household usage has been mostly from my housemates near-constant torrenting and Netflix.

/pushed around 400GB last month
//wtfman, stop downloading so many goddamn videos
 
2013-04-11 06:16:29 PM

Dr Dreidel: praxcelis: I fall squarely in the "old curmudgeon" quadrant. I have a life outside gaming, and don't necessarily want to share my gaming experience with the hordes (see what i did there?) of console monkeys who haven't seen sunlight since grade school and spend way too much time playing whack-a-mole with the n00bs like me who just want to play a quick game. I actually buy games for the single player campaign mode, because I like being able to pick up the plot thread every so often when family, work, etc. gives me a couple spare hours.

Hell, I'm 31 and that describes my gamer-gland pretty well, except I have more than a few spare hours here and there to get busy.

If I wanted a forced online-only ALL THE MULTIPLAYERS swarm of a clusterfarked actual-war-type scenario, I'd buy that. If XBox wants to cut its own nuts off and stop producing single-player games, they can do that instead of an always-on requirement for Skyrim.

// I wonder why no one thought of adding an MMO component to Skyrim - is it just "there can be only one Dragonborn"?
// seems to me that's the kind of game that SCREAMS for it


I don't want to be "that guy" and just spew a bunch of bile at you, because who am I to talk down to a doctor, but I'll be soooo grateful if Bethesda never tries to do that. I understand that they're making an Elder Scrolls MMO, and that's fine because I won't be buying it, but if they go the Star Wars: The Old Republic route and try to make future iterations of the actual game series into an MMO, I might just firebomb their offices. I, personally, can't stand MMO's. everything from the gameplay to the UI makes me want to kill myself. It is the opposite of fun. My biggest fear is that Fallout, my favoritest game series in the history of forever, will end up an MMO franchise like Warcraft. I really don't want that. I love the single player experience. Maybe one day MMO's will have enough variety and depth for me to feel like I'm actually playing a game, but that day hasn't arrived yet. And for such long running franchises as Elder Scrolls and Fallout, I hope the day never comes. Just keep giving me great, epic, fun single player experiences and they will forever have my $60 + DLC monies.
 
2013-04-11 06:25:17 PM

RoxtarRyan: TNel: According to Comcast "their median monthly data usage is currently only 12 to 14 GB per month" for all users, which would be pretty shocking that a broadband subscriber would limit someone to 5GB of data.

MediaCom has a 1GB cap on some users.

So yeah... there's that. Additionally, some ISPs may have decent caps, but the service? Horrible, inconsistent. DSL carriers, like AT&T, for example. I've talked to people that who are so remote, even AT&T DSL doesn't cover them... they are left with dial-up.

Hell, screw the minor bandwidth usage... That isn't what the real issue is with an "always online" console. What about people overseas, like our troops? Heaven fark forbid they relax at the end of the day of being stuck in the damn desert, away from their loved ones with their console and some friends with no internet connection. I can't tell you how nice it was to be over in Afghanistan in the middle of nowhere and be able to fire up the PS2 with some friends, or head over to to MWR tent and play some Counter Strike and relax after getting rocketed and mortared all goddamn day. Always online consoles and games? All they do is alienate a portion of their userbase.for no reason other than treating their customers like thieves and giving them Dorios ads.


So MS is forcing the troops to buy a new console? What's wrong with their existing xbox or ps3? Heck the last time I was overseas we had crappy ps2 stations.
 
2013-04-11 06:50:53 PM
Is this where industry folks take the opposite stance to pander and it slips under the radar because people love raging more than fending off pander?

"Oh, I would NEVER support an 'always on' feature, sorry to chime in late - internet was out and I got tied up in a SP game."

*furiously removes support for Always On feature*

AHMAHGERD, dis guy is a champion for the common man, let us praise him!!!!
 
2013-04-11 07:00:00 PM

mooseyfate: who am I to talk down to a doctor


I'm not actually a doctor.

// someone lied about their identity online?
// my shocked face
// don't much like MMOs, either
 
2013-04-11 07:15:57 PM
Good luck getting another job, Adam Orth.  Who would hire someone who was very publicly fired for making comments online like this?  You'd be worried about him repeating this at your company.
 
2013-04-11 07:24:41 PM

TheBlackrose: RoxtarRyan: TheBlackrose: What's even more hilarious is people in the industry blaming the internet:

Why the hell don't people learn that you should NOT badmouth your customers? WTF???

It's not even that. I mean, badmouthing your user base is such an obvious "don't do this." But when your account's profile puts your company's position on a pedestal and you proceed to cause a shiatstorm, that little "views does not represent the company" boilerplate won't save you.

However, what burns my goat is more the industry people playing the blame game. We've grown up in an age where personal responsibility no longer means anything. Whenever we as an individual do something wrong, it has to be someone else's fault. It just has to be. It can never be your own fault. Admitting you did something wrong or that something is your fault is perceived as a weakness.

The best I've seen thus far is people going, "HE WASN'T FIRED, HE RESIGNED." Guess people have never heard of a forced resignation before.

/This is corporate politics 101


Hey now, working a fryer at the golden arches doesn't give one a lot of exposure to corporate politics. Also, you're dealing with people stupid enough to believe that someone would "resign" from an enormously powerful and prestigious position with an industry giant after a grand total of 14 months, just (coincidentally) a week after giving the company a black eye with an insufferable, arrogant,  out-of-touch piss in the eye of his company's key demographics. It's all just a coincidence, that Microsoft gig was a dead end job. No one in the corporate world has ever been told "Leave on your terms or ours, but you will be leaving". He's moving on to the booming field of Blockbuster Video Store assistant management. All the gum scrapers know that's the real growth industry, he'd be crazy not to jump ship!
 
2013-04-11 07:31:42 PM

CPennypacker: You know what's going to be hilarious? This guy lost his job and in a month Microsoft is going to announce the next XBox with an always on feature. And you know what? They are going to tell you to #dealwithit.


You know what's actually hilarious? That you actually have so little self-control that you buy products that have a feature that you feel is an absolute game breaker. You know what, when grown ups are confronted with goods or service that fail to meet their needs, they tend to not purchase them. Perhaps not as hilarious as the utterly retarded fantasy you've created in your head where the world exists without consumer backlash and a market with more than 1 option, but at least it's real. #dealwithit
 
2013-04-11 08:54:45 PM

TNel: So MS is forcing the troops to buy a new console? What's wrong with their existing xbox or ps3? Heck the last time I was overseas we had crappy ps2 stations.


The point is why would anyone in the positions that MS is in create anything (videogame or console) that alienates anyone because of having unnecessarily retarded requirements?
 
2013-04-11 09:03:28 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: Is this where industry folks take the opposite stance to pander and it slips under the radar because people love raging more than fending off pander?

"Oh, I would NEVER support an 'always on' feature, sorry to chime in late - internet was out and I got tied up in a SP game."

*furiously removes support for Always On feature*

AHMAHGERD, dis guy is a champion for the common man, let us praise him!!!!


Hi there Adam.  Sorry to hear you lost your job, but you were being a twat.  Rule #1 of consumer products is never insult the customer.  Hope you learned your lesson.
 
2013-04-11 09:32:15 PM

Adan: "You've lived in LA, San Francisco, Seattle... very connected places. Try living in Janesville, WI or Blackburg, VA," Heir countered.

I'm from Janesville. Never realy had an issue. I live in an even smaller city now and commute to Milwaukee. Still dont have issue. I lost internet once I think in the 4 years. I hear more complaining about it from people who live downtown.

/Always on is farking stupid.
//the internet hate fir people and places not on the coast is starting to get really annoying


Yeah, the whole argument is kind of dumb.  Charter may be a poor excuse for an ISP, but so is Comcast.  People do have broadband internet outside of select metropolitan areas on the coasts!  My aunt even has broadband internet in Dorchester, WI, population 400.  Do Orth and people like him think we're stuck in 1993 out here, away from an ocean?  There are, yes, some places out there still that do not have access to any broadband internet besides satellite, but we're talking about a pretty small percentage of the population in places like ranches in rural Montana.

But, all of this really isn't the point.  It's that it is plain stupid that your machine has to be online at all to play a single player game.  That's what people are so upset about, but that point has been completely lost on the idiots that have tried it so far.  You lose functionality, too.  No more plugging your Xbox into a car TV.  Taking your Xbox over to a friend's house becomes a pain in the ass.  No more taking the Xbox up to an internet-less cabin.  It's a stupid feature that hurts the end user experience.

I am able to perform all local functions with my computer when I pull out the network cord, including play Steam games and use Office365.  Why can't I ask for the same from an Xbox?

/wooo Janesville
//Craig grad
///Also now a Milwaukeean
 
2013-04-11 10:13:40 PM
At their core there is very little genetic difference between an XBOX 360 and an Atari 2600.

Console: Check
Power Cable: Check
TV Cable: Check
Controller Port: Check
Power Button: Check
Game Port: Check

This is the definition of a video game console. If anything else is required to operate the console and play a sold-separately video game then the unit can no longer fall under the taxonomic class of 'console'.

I expect to only need electricity, a television and a game to play my console. I'll be damned if I have to jump through more hoops and put up more of a struggle than someone playing 'Pong' in 1978.
 
2013-04-11 10:39:44 PM

CPennypacker: You know what's going to be hilarious? This guy lost his job and in a month Microsoft is going to announce the next XBox with an always on feature. And you know what? They are going to tell you to #dealwithit.


I won't buy one at this point. If that's what Microsoft wants, they can #dealwithit.
 
2013-04-11 10:58:32 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-12 12:21:09 AM
I will be buying a PS4 in about 3 years, so this is all moot to me...
 
2013-04-12 12:41:02 AM
ms can screw up the next xbox as much as they can, as far as I'm concerned. When Sony's next console comes out, it had better be paying attention to these missteps by ms.

Never bought an xbox, never will buy ms stuff unless I have to. With gaming, I don't have to.
 
2013-04-12 12:42:06 AM

Maul555: I will be buying a PS4 in about 3 years, so this is all moot to me...


LOL two similar posts back to back... :)
 
2013-04-12 12:46:49 AM

Generation_D: Fired for expressing what many in places like Seattle believe. I'll play apologist kinda.

A bunch of us came from places like Janesville WI and Blacksburgh, VA, and got an education and left. Or found a town where they were hiring and left. Or just had enough of our inbred hometown bullsh*t and left. Made something of ourselves once we got here, competed with our brains instead of our birth certificates, and have done well in the thriving economies of Left Coast big cities. And take pride in what we've accomplished.

With pride comes arrogance, sometimes, unfortunately.

But its one thing to spout crap into anonymous forums, quite another to head up a consumer gaming group. Bad fight to pick, Orthy. You still need to sell sh*t to them. Stop telling them how a lot of us really think.

On the bright side, now you can sit all day and tweet out how much the midwest and appalachia sucks.


Are you a troll?  Some of us make plenty of money, and work in said big city called Seattle.  But some of us like a tradeoff of a long commute back to our 20 acres in a rural setting because your politicians in Seattle; who think just like you, price most people out of the city.  With parking revenue the highest in the nation, that same parking nonexistent if it isn't $20 an hour, houses that average 630,000 within the limits, and crime through the roof because the hippie douchebags worry about political correctness over putting a law-breaking piece of shiat in his place.

And then I get to drive home and cater to shiat heads that don't understand they need to build a customer base, not alienate it, by trying to explain to us that we should be obligated to have an internet connection 24/7 in order to play our own games?

I bet you feel really unique and original amongst the miriad of silver Prius' roaming the city while you try to find the nearest organic espresso place.
 
2013-04-12 12:56:02 AM

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Always on...not always on...still wouldn't have made the ending of Bioshock Infinite make any damn sense.


For once, I wanted a straight up feel good ending...awesome game, the ending made my head explode.

...off to play it again...
 
2013-04-12 01:14:33 AM

Antimatter: Granted, a lot of the net is trusting the sources of the leaks because they were right about a lot of the Wii U, 3ds, and ps4 stuff, as well as some vita stuff.

So when they say this or that about the next Xbox, folks were buying it, although, the info in the leaks appeared to be much older then the playstation or nintendo stuff.

It's become pretty obvious that a lot of the real accurate stuff has got to be right from the companies themselves.  Sony seems to be the most comfortable doing that, with Nintendo the most secret. MS tends to be in between, but very tight lipped, till yesterday, on the xbox.


Whether the rumors turn out to be true or not, I think most of us know that this is what companies would like to do if they thought they can get away with it (not that they will admit it). They would love to kill the used games market and control consumers more.
 
2013-04-12 03:12:11 AM

TheBlackrose: FuturePastNow: Yet the people who created Metro probably mostly still have jobs.

The people who created Metro didn't go on Twitter and tell their user base that they're farking morons for not embracing their potential design decisions.

What's even more hilarious is people in the industry blaming the internet:

[i.imgur.com image 522x430]


Ahh, Mr. 'Cliffyb' a man who loudly VERY LOUDLY in fact stated that the Xbox 360 was his one true love and he hated those evil other platforms as they distracted from the purity of the Xbox.  Or words to that effect.

The man's a high order moron who should both ignored and forced to write software for the Xbox360 (his one true love after all) and no other platform until the day he dies.  Yes I hold a grudge, yes I am serious.  Besides, all he's capable of on the PC is crappy things like the Gears of War port... so he's best kept away from the big boy machines.

I'm sure his blog post will be as awesome as Carmack's recent splurge about why DirectX is the one true god of 3D whilst most of his peers are dusting off the Idiots Guide to OpenGL.

In other words, worth a giggle but not to be taken seriously.
 
2013-04-12 03:19:38 AM
factoryconnection:
But hey, what's a few hundred thousand customers?

If we were discussing the EeeAww ermm Ouya then I'd respond "Worth considering".

We're not, a few hundred k people not buying your console means nothing when talking about the big players.  If the military buy really is as low as you're saying... Microsoft do not give a shiat.   When you hit "Millions of sales" then Microsoft will care.

Try it, phone up their PR people and ask them the question.  The PR bunny'll make some pleasing noises but the underlying message you receive will be "fark you, fark them.  We're Microsoft."
 
2013-04-12 07:54:32 AM
Can't say I didn't expect this.
His complaints about people hating constant online, at a time when next-box development should be long completed, stank of someone who didn't get their way in the final cut.

...and I'm still waiting to see something demonstrated by MS officially.
All these rumors won't buy you a damn thing in the end.
 
2013-04-12 08:01:24 AM

RoxtarRyan: TNel: So MS is forcing the troops to buy a new console? What's wrong with their existing xbox or ps3? Heck the last time I was overseas we had crappy ps2 stations.

The point is why would anyone in the positions that MS is in create anything (videogame or console) that alienates anyone because of having unnecessarily retarded requirements?


Way of the future. 99% of you would shiat your pants if you didn't haven't Internet on your phone, yet require it for a console and Omg worst idea ever. If my Internet is off that's because I lost my power making my console a paper weight anyway.
 
2013-04-12 08:11:08 AM

TNel: Way of the future. 99% of you would shiat your pants if you didn't haven't Internet on your phone, yet require it for a console and Omg worst idea ever. If my Internet is off that's because I lost my power making my console a paper weight anyway.


www.2ndmanunited.com
 
2013-04-12 08:22:59 AM

RoxtarRyan: TNel: Way of the future. 99% of you would shiat your pants if you didn't haven't Internet on your phone, yet require it for a console and Omg worst idea ever. If my Internet is off that's because I lost my power making my console a paper weight anyway.

[www.2ndmanunited.com image 203x204]


Why?  Who says they are unnecessary you? The world we live in now is basically always on connection, look at how many smartphones are out there and how many people constantly tweet or post to facebook or even fark on their mobile phone.  The fact that there is a small subgroup of people that could be hindered does not change the fact that the vast majority of people already have an internet connection at their house.
 
2013-04-12 08:45:44 AM

Incin: Good riddance, but it's barely a start.  His #dealwithit attitude is probably a symptom of working at Microsoft too long - it permeates their whole culture now.  Remember all the pre-release negative feedback about Windows 8?  Consumers saying they didn't want a tablet OS on their PC, OEMs being pushed around about making mostly touchscreen PCs (not to mention the backstabbing with their Surface Pro), even all of the analysts knew it would flop.  MS brazenly charged forward, telling their consumers and partners to deal with it, and ended up with a massive fail on their hands.  They fired the head of Windows and are suffering the consequences of a rapidly shrinking market.

History is repeating itself rather quickly, showing that Microsoft is blinded by its hubris. Next Xbox always online?  No ability to trade/lend/sell your games (which I might add is the ONLY reason they are worth $60 a pop)? Same hardware architecture as a PC, except it's a closed platform?    Sorry, I can build a gaming PC for the same price, have all the benefits and no bullshiat.  And it will be running Windows 7.


Having been in meetings with several people who designed Windows 8, their attitude was not in fact "deal with it", it was "We performed thousands of usability studies and every objective view of Windows 8 shows that the vast majority of people find it is far more intuitive than the outdated start menu after a short transition period. We have noted that there is a strong dislike of any change to the start menu since it's been around for 18 years and people generally dislike change, but the studies show what we went with generally makes people happier in the long run."

As I have observed, people who do the loudest biatching about Windows 8 have never actually used it and are simply parroting what other people have said.

/seriously people, hit "windows key", start typing the name of your program, hit enter.
//It's EXACTLY how the old start menu worked.
///it's not farking rocket surgery.
 
2013-04-12 08:57:56 AM

TNel: Why?  Who says they are unnecessary you? The world we live in now is basically always on connection, look at how many smartphones are out there and how many people constantly tweet or post to facebook or even fark on their mobile phone.  The fact that there is a small subgroup of people that could be hindered does not change the fact that the vast majority of people already have an internet connection at their house.


A console is not a smartphone. It is a console, and not everyone buys a console to only play online. many like single-player games that need no internet connection. With always on, the ability to play a single player game is dependent upon both the internet being on AND Microsoft's servers being functional. Few people want to shell out hundreds of dollars for a device that can so easily become bricked if one or the other fails.

Just look at the SimCity fiasco and remember that was over one single game that ran $60. Imagine how people will react when they spend ten times that amount on a console and games, bring it home, and find out that they can't play it because either their internet isn't up to par or that Microsoft's servers can't handle the day 1 load. You thought their RROD was a problem, wait until everyone's console gets bricked because the servers go down.
 
2013-04-12 09:09:34 AM

TNel: Why? Who says they are unnecessary you? The world we live in now is basically always on connection, look at how many smartphones are out there and how many people constantly tweet or post to facebook or even fark on their mobile phone.


And if there is an internet outage, your device doesn't become a brick that is only good for being used as a doorstop. Your old consoles can still be used for single player (or heck, even LAN parties), your cell phone still plays Angry Birds, and you can still stream media from your home computer to your tablet. If you are traveling and staying at a hotel for a while, your console isn't going to be able to bypass the "accept hotel internet rules" paywall, if you're on a plane, your tablet can still read books and watch movies, and your phone can still take pictures and video when you're on a cruise in the middle of the ocean. When I take my vacation next week out of country, I can still use my tablet even though there will be no internet. What about that aren't you getting? All of those things have one thing in common: The internet helps increase what they can do, but it is not a requirement for them being able to function on a basic level.

Look Adam, we get it. You're pissed you were forced to leave MS because you ran your mouth and have to resort to using anonymous handles on a forum to spout your crap, but really, the only people who are clamoring for and defending "always online" devices are corporations telling people what they want, like Comcast, Time Warner and others saying that the reason they don't offer faster service or fiber is because people don't want it. Tell you what: you want "always online devices", go tell your telecom friends to drop the price and kill the caps of internet access, because your "future" of having always online devices is really going to hurt the pockets of people who are forced to pay more and more every few months for higher speeds for their home internet, and dealing with ever-increasing costs of cell phone data service with smaller caps now than we had 5 years ago.
 
2013-04-12 09:20:03 AM
While I dont agree with what he said or the way he said it, Im a little more disconcerted by the way MS is making a strawman out of him. They saw the chance to burn someone for their always online requirement and not catch the flak themselves.
 
2013-04-12 10:42:16 AM

TheOriginalEd: While I dont agree with what he said or the way he said it, Im a little more disconcerted by the way MS is making a strawman out of him. They saw the chance to burn someone for their always online requirement and not catch the flak themselves.


They saw a chance to burn someone who they employed who was treating their customers with utter contempt.

100% justified.
 
2013-04-12 11:10:50 AM

TNel: Way of the future. 99% of you would shiat your pants if you didn't haven't Internet on your phone, yet require it for a console and Omg worst idea ever.


You're missing the point completely. It would be the equivalent of having a phone that can access the Internet but, the moment the phone loses its Internet connection, it cannot be used for ANYTHING. No phone calls. No calendar. No games. Not. A. Single. Thing.

If my Internet is off that's because I lost my power making my console a paper weight anyway.

I've had a lot more Internet outages than power outages in my building. Usually the Internet outages are based on 1) the router needs to be rebooted; 2) the IP configuration on my PC needs to be reset and 3) An actual issue with my ISP. None of those involve power outages.

I had one ISP that I could set a watch to their outages - every Sunday at 3pm, the Internet would be lost for a brief time. I switched providers.

I can see the benefits of an always-on connection. That doesn't mean i want it because I like to control how the bandwidth in my home is used. If they made the always-on connection optional so you could have console or game updates downloaded when the console wasn't being used, there may be some benefit. To make always-on a required console component would be foolish.
 
2013-04-12 11:59:18 AM

RoxtarRyan: TNel: Why? Who says they are unnecessary you? The world we live in now is basically always on connection, look at how many smartphones are out there and how many people constantly tweet or post to facebook or even fark on their mobile phone.

And if there is an internet outage, your device doesn't become a brick that is only good for being used as a doorstop. Your old consoles can still be used for single player (or heck, even LAN parties), your cell phone still plays Angry Birds, and you can still stream media from your home computer to your tablet. If you are traveling and staying at a hotel for a while, your console isn't going to be able to bypass the "accept hotel internet rules" paywall, if you're on a plane, your tablet can still read books and watch movies, and your phone can still take pictures and video when you're on a cruise in the middle of the ocean. When I take my vacation next week out of country, I can still use my tablet even though there will be no internet. What about that aren't you getting? All of those things have one thing in common: The internet helps increase what they can do, but it is not a requirement for them being able to function on a basic level.

Look Adam, we get it. You're pissed you were forced to leave MS because you ran your mouth and have to resort to using anonymous handles on a forum to spout your crap, but really, the only people who are clamoring for and defending "always online" devices are corporations telling people what they want, like Comcast, Time Warner and others saying that the reason they don't offer faster service or fiber is because people don't want it. Tell you what: you want "always online devices", go tell your telecom friends to drop the price and kill the caps of internet access, because your "future" of having always online devices is really going to hurt the pockets of people who are forced to pay more and more every few months for higher speeds for their home internet, and dealing with ever-increasing ...


Heh, great post.
I thought of a similar response when I read what Adam "TNel" wrote.
 
rpm
2013-04-12 12:40:09 PM

TNel: Way of the future. 99% of you would shiat your pants if you didn't haven't Internet on your phone, yet require it for a console and Omg worst idea ever. If my Internet is off that's because I lost my power making my console a paper weight anyway.


'Cause SimCity worked so well when it came out.
 
2013-04-12 01:46:13 PM

TNel: RoxtarRyan: TNel: Way of the future. 99% of you would shiat your pants if you didn't haven't Internet on your phone, yet require it for a console and Omg worst idea ever. If my Internet is off that's because I lost my power making my console a paper weight anyway.

[www.2ndmanunited.com image 203x204]

Why?  Who says they are unnecessary you? The world we live in now is basically always on connection, look at how many smartphones are out there and how many people constantly tweet or post to facebook or even fark on their mobile phone.  The fact that there is a small subgroup of people that could be hindered does not change the fact that the vast majority of people already have an internet connection at their house.


To quote Dr. Perceval Cox:

Wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG! WRONG, wrong, WRONG, wrong! You're wrooong! You're wroooong! You're WROOOONG!


/wrong is a funny looking word...
 
2013-04-12 02:20:49 PM

rpm: TNel: Way of the future. 99% of you would shiat your pants if you didn't haven't Internet on your phone, yet require it for a console and Omg worst idea ever. If my Internet is off that's because I lost my power making my console a paper weight anyway.

'Cause SimCity worked so well when it came out.


Because a console that just needs a ping request is the same as doing most of the game's work on the server is the same thing.  I would be really curious what percent of current 360s are always connected, I would bet a great deal of them.
 
2013-04-12 02:33:50 PM

Vaneshi: TheBlackrose: FuturePastNow: Yet the people who created Metro probably mostly still have jobs.

The people who created Metro didn't go on Twitter and tell their user base that they're farking morons for not embracing their potential design decisions.

What's even more hilarious is people in the industry blaming the internet:

[i.imgur.com image 522x430]

Ahh, Mr. 'Cliffyb' a man who loudly VERY LOUDLY in fact stated that the Xbox 360 was his one true love and he hated those evil other platforms as they distracted from the purity of the Xbox.  Or words to that effect.

The man's a high order moron who should both ignored and forced to write software for the Xbox360 (his one true love after all) and no other platform until the day he dies.  Yes I hold a grudge, yes I am serious.  Besides, all he's capable of on the PC is crappy things like the Gears of War port... so he's best kept away from the big boy machines.

I'm sure his blog post will be as awesome as Carmack's recent splurge about why DirectX is the one true god of 3D whilst most of his peers are dusting off the Idiots Guide to OpenGL.

In other words, worth a giggle but not to be taken seriously.


24.media.tumblr.com
http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/47725362941/deal-with-it
 
2013-04-12 03:31:25 PM

TNel: I would be really curious what percent of current 360s are always connected, I would bet a great deal of them.


Probably close to 80%.
But it's not a requirement to be connected. Which is the issue.
 
rpm
2013-04-12 03:37:20 PM

TNel: Because a console that just needs a ping request is the same as doing most of the game's work on the server is the same thing.  I would be really curious what percent of current 360s are always connected, I would bet a great deal of them.


Most of the things on the server? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

No. It works fine with no connection when hacked, minus the saves. SimCity is the perfect poster child.
 
2013-04-12 05:51:36 PM

Flappyhead: Vaneshi: TheBlackrose: FuturePastNow: Yet the people who created Metro probably mostly still have jobs.

The people who created Metro didn't go on Twitter and tell their user base that they're farking morons for not embracing their potential design decisions.

What's even more hilarious is people in the industry blaming the internet:

[i.imgur.com image 522x430]

Ahh, Mr. 'Cliffyb' a man who loudly VERY LOUDLY in fact stated that the Xbox 360 was his one true love and he hated those evil other platforms as they distracted from the purity of the Xbox.  Or words to that effect.

The man's a high order moron who should both ignored and forced to write software for the Xbox360 (his one true love after all) and no other platform until the day he dies.  Yes I hold a grudge, yes I am serious.  Besides, all he's capable of on the PC is crappy things like the Gears of War port... so he's best kept away from the big boy machines.

I'm sure his blog post will be as awesome as Carmack's recent splurge about why DirectX is the one true god of 3D whilst most of his peers are dusting off the Idiots Guide to OpenGL.

In other words, worth a giggle but not to be taken seriously.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x664]
http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/47725362941/deal-with-it


Cliff just spent quite a lot of time biatching about the internet's bad behavior there.

Then ends it by saying "Well behaved people don't make history."

/hoist by his own pitard!
 
2013-04-12 05:54:18 PM

TNel: Because a console that just needs a ping request is the same as doing most of the game's work on the server is the same thing


What is handled on the servers by Sim City, was handled by a drop down menu in Sim City 4.

Literally all it's doing is keeping a list of numbers from your other save files. These numbers include available resources.

nothing else.
 
2013-04-12 06:02:41 PM

fluffy2097: Flappyhead:
http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/47725362941/deal-with-it

Cliff just spent quite a lot of time biatching about the internet's bad behavior there.

Then ends it by saying "Well behaved people don't make history."

/hoist by his own pitard!


I also love his "gut feeling" about always online.  I wonder if he had a similar gut feeling about the Gears of War port.
 
2013-04-12 06:28:06 PM

rpm: TNel: Because a console that just needs a ping request is the same as doing most of the game's work on the server is the same thing.  I would be really curious what percent of current 360s are always connected, I would bet a great deal of them.

Most of the things on the server? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

No. It works fine with no connection when hacked, minus the saves. SimCity is the perfect poster child.


No because ea has to assume majority of people will only play for a few months and the launch day of it, and every mmo in history, will be over welled and not handle. I doubt MS would do the same with a console since most consoles will be on all the time to so it's easy to predict server load.
 
2013-04-12 07:54:03 PM

TNel: rpm: TNel: Because a console that just needs a ping request is the same as doing most of the game's work on the server is the same thing.  I would be really curious what percent of current 360s are always connected, I would bet a great deal of them.

Most of the things on the server? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

No. It works fine with no connection when hacked, minus the saves. SimCity is the perfect poster child.

No because ea has to assume majority of people will only play for a few months and the launch day of it, and every mmo in history, will be over welled and not handle. I doubt MS would do the same with a console since most consoles will be on all the time to so it's easy to predict server load.


You know, it's great that you're already on your knees with you mouth open and eyes closed when it comes to companies treating PAYING CUSTOMERS like highway bandits, but the rest of us, you know, other consumers, have every right to biatch and moan about this. And we will. Whether they listen to us or not is irrelevant, it's the American Way. If you disagree with something, you put your farking foot down and you proclaim exactly why this shiat won't stand. Maybe you win, maybe you lose, but at least you farking tried. This meek "you'll get over it" mindset is the EXACT reason why companies like EA get away with destroying everything around them while simultaneously trying to wring all the money from our pockets with inferior products. So yeah, you keep on lapping up that frothy discharge, the rest of us are going to go shiat in their sandbox.
 
rpm
2013-04-12 08:05:10 PM

TNel: No because ea has to assume majority of people will only play for a few months and the launch day of it, and every mmo in history, will be over welled and not handle. I doubt MS would do the same with a console since most consoles will be on all the time to so it's easy to predict server load.


You mean the same servers that get crushed when a new Halo comes out, those servers? People have trouble logging in to Live, never mind playing. That would mean all those consoles are down.

And predict the load? You really think those won't be under attack all the time?
 
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