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(Eurogamer)   #dealtwith   (eurogamer.net) divider line 157
    More: Followup, Adam Orth, SimCity  
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6435 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Apr 2013 at 10:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-11 08:12:00 AM
Good farking riddance.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-11 08:35:23 AM
Fired for expressing what many in places like Seattle believe. I'll play apologist kinda.

A bunch of us came from places like Janesville WI and Blacksburgh, VA, and got an education and left. Or found a town where they were hiring and left. Or just had enough of our inbred hometown bullsh*t and left. Made something of ourselves once we got here, competed with our brains instead of our birth certificates, and have done well in the thriving economies of Left Coast big cities. And take pride in what we've accomplished.

With pride comes arrogance, sometimes, unfortunately.

But its one thing to spout crap into anonymous forums, quite another to head up a consumer gaming group. Bad fight to pick, Orthy. You still need to sell sh*t to them. Stop telling them how a lot of us really think.

On the bright side, now you can sit all day and tweet out how much the midwest and appalachia sucks.
 
2013-04-11 08:47:34 AM
BioWare is full of pretty smart people, it would seem...
 
2013-04-11 08:52:08 AM

xanadian: BioWare is full of pretty smart people, it would seem...


Well, they managed to troll the creative head of XBOX to get his dumb ass fired, if thats what you mean.
 
2013-04-11 09:43:19 AM

Generation_D: But its one thing to spout crap into anonymous forums, quite another to head up a consumer gaming group. Bad fight to pick, Orthy. You still need to sell sh*t to them. Stop telling them how a lot of us really think.


If your job is heading up a CONSUMER gaming group, it seems like your one job is to pay attention to the consumers' feedback. Even if he personally disagrees, even if the company disagrees, his job is to make the consumer understand why they disagree and how they can bridge the gap. Not to "troll", further antagonize, or play tone-deaf.

// you had one job, dumbass
// I work in IT support, I know from such things
 
2013-04-11 09:43:29 AM

xanadian: BioWare is full of pretty smart people, it would seem...


I don't know, they did defend EA after EA won the Worst Company in America (called it). Basically said that EA gives them all the creative control to fark up games.

"The best analogy I use, in a positive way, is EA gives you enough rope to hang yourself."

I was fine with blaming EA for all of BioWare's recent shortcomings, including Dragon Age 2.

And glad Orth got what he deserved. Acting like a smarmy biatch, especially in a public forum while representing your company, should get you biatch slapped.
 
2013-04-11 10:04:28 AM
i.imgur.com

Not surprised Microsoft asked him to fall on his own sword.
 
2013-04-11 10:04:41 AM
"And he's a nice guy as well. He teases and f**** around - like so many of us on the net do - and yeah, he tweeted without thinking (like many of us on the net do) and he just got very unlucky."

Yes, that sure was some bad luck there.  No way to have seen it coming, poor bloke.
 
2013-04-11 10:12:20 AM
its all bullshiat
Your computer is always on unless you rock the power switch on the back.

Your toaster, dishwasher, washing machine and dryer are always on.

Cope.   Why the fark would you want to play an entire array of multiplayer games offline?


Seriously, the bigger shiat is the lack of fanboi outcry over the unit being 100% AMD hardware and still costing nearly twice as much as the equivalent APU system it shares spec with.
 
2013-04-11 10:15:11 AM
Hey look! It's the Internet! Filled with nerds that love to rant about all the failings of major gaming companies!

Hold my beer, imma poke em with a stick and see what happens.
 
2013-04-11 10:15:34 AM

prjindigo: its all bullshiat
Your computer is always on unless you rock the power switch on the back.

Your toaster, dishwasher, washing machine and dryer are always on.

Cope.   Why the fark would you want to play an entire array of multiplayer games offline?


Seriously, the bigger shiat is the lack of fanboi outcry over the unit being 100% AMD hardware and still costing nearly twice as much as the equivalent APU system it shares spec with.


2/10.

I'll bump it up to a 4/10 if you actually get some bites, but I think you came on a little strong.
 
2013-04-11 10:17:04 AM
It guess his job wasn't.....

( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)

always on.


YEEAAAAAHHHHHHH!
 
2013-04-11 10:18:18 AM
GAH. "I", not it.
 
2013-04-11 10:23:36 AM
Well, I wonder who else MS will blame for the "always on" feature if it is true.
 
2013-04-11 10:24:17 AM
He caused a major internet, and even mainstream press, backlash against the xbox.  It basically forced the 'leaks' we got yesterday that said it could play offline, and has paid hardware addon backwards compat.

So it cost them a surprise announcement and forced their hand early.  Damn right they crapcanned him for it.
 
2013-04-11 10:25:31 AM
Dumbshiat.

Got what he had coming to him.
 
2013-04-11 10:26:35 AM
Good riddance, but it's barely a start.  His #dealwithit attitude is probably a symptom of working at Microsoft too long - it permeates their whole culture now.  Remember all the pre-release negative feedback about Windows 8?  Consumers saying they didn't want a tablet OS on their PC, OEMs being pushed around about making mostly touchscreen PCs (not to mention the backstabbing with their Surface Pro), even all of the analysts knew it would flop.  MS brazenly charged forward, telling their consumers and partners to deal with it, and ended up with a massive fail on their hands.  They fired the head of Windows and are suffering the consequences of a rapidly shrinking market.

History is repeating itself rather quickly, showing that Microsoft is blinded by its hubris. Next Xbox always online?  No ability to trade/lend/sell your games (which I might add is the ONLY reason they are worth $60 a pop)? Same hardware architecture as a PC, except it's a closed platform?    Sorry, I can build a gaming PC for the same price, have all the benefits and no bullshiat.  And it will be running Windows 7.
 
2013-04-11 10:32:45 AM
Even if we accept the idea that we have always on connections, many ISPs have monthly caps or are moving in the direction of monthly caps.  So why would I want a console that is going to use my connection when I don't want it to and eat into my cap space?
 
2013-04-11 10:35:52 AM
Incin:Sorry, I can build a gaming PC for the same price, have all the benefits and no bullshiat.  And it will be running Windows 7.

Welcome to 2 generations of consoles ago, Incin. I may not have a lot of money but I have enough to save up for a rig that will run 360-quality games. Not on high... but hey, it works.

And it has Steam. That's always gangbusters for deals and such.
 
2013-04-11 10:38:10 AM

ha-ha-guy: Even if we accept the idea that we have always on connections, many ISPs have monthly caps or are moving in the direction of monthly caps.  So why would I want a console that is going to use my connection when I don't want it to and eat into my cap space?


So...what happens if you just hook one of these to it:
i.imgur.com
And clap when you're done gaming for the day/session?  Does it do bad things if you pull the plug?
 
2013-04-11 10:39:04 AM

prjindigo: Cope.


It's a product/service we pay for, in an industry filled with people who make the internet work. It should come as no surprise that we:
-see right through the "convenience" bullshiat
-have strong opinions about a medium we grew up with (and helped shape into the billions-a-year industry it is today)
-get all pissy when someone on the internet insults our intelligence (or even us personally)
-use the internet (and its concomitant power to effect change) to get relief for these slights

We are coping.
 
2013-04-11 10:44:21 AM

Incin: Good riddance, but it's barely a start.  His #dealwithit attitude is probably a symptom of working at Microsoft too long - it permeates their whole culture now.  Remember all the pre-release negative feedback about Windows 8?  Consumers saying they didn't want a tablet OS on their PC, OEMs being pushed around about making mostly touchscreen PCs (not to mention the backstabbing with their Surface Pro), even all of the analysts knew it would flop.  MS brazenly charged forward, telling their consumers and partners to deal with it, and ended up with a massive fail on their hands.  They fired the head of Windows and are suffering the consequences of a rapidly shrinking market.

History is repeating itself rather quickly, showing that Microsoft is blinded by its hubris. Next Xbox always online?  No ability to trade/lend/sell your games (which I might add is the ONLY reason they are worth $60 a pop)? Same hardware architecture as a PC, except it's a closed platform?    Sorry, I can build a gaming PC for the same price, have all the benefits and no bullshiat.  And it will be running Windows 7.


TFA said he was hired in 2012. Forget it, you're rolling.

Orth, who joined Microsoft in February 2012 to work on the next Xbox design team at the gargantuan company's Redmond headquarters, angered a number of gamers, particularly on Reddit, but he has been defended in some quarters. God of War and Twisted Metal director David Jaffe described Orth as "a good, good guy and a real talent" in a post on NeoGAF.

I'd be more worried MS let a good gaming talent get away because he couldn't be arsed not to be trolled on twitter.
 
2013-04-11 10:45:42 AM

dahmers love zombie: ha-ha-guy: Even if we accept the idea that we have always on connections, many ISPs have monthly caps or are moving in the direction of monthly caps.  So why would I want a console that is going to use my connection when I don't want it to and eat into my cap space?

So...what happens if you just hook one of these to it:
[i.imgur.com image 220x220]
And clap when you're done gaming for the day/session?  Does it do bad things if you pull the plug?


The point is that reports so far suggest you won't be able to engage in single player games without first phoning home and communicating with the server, so it costs me part of my bandwidth cap just to open Forza and play a few tracks on my own.
 
2013-04-11 10:54:18 AM
Guess he's having issues staying connected to the employment servers.
 
2013-04-11 10:56:15 AM
The original point made to Orthy is correct.  I live in a large, well connected metropolis.  At least once a month, my internet will drop during my gaming sessions.  I will react by switching to a single player game 'til it comes back up.  Internet is much less reliable that electricity, too.  If the system has to connect to play, then I cannot use my expensive device while circumstances beyond my control have me disconnected.  And to say, "just move" is simply ridiculous.
 
2013-04-11 10:56:22 AM
"So he's been let go, then?"

"No, we fixed the glitch. He'll no longer receive a paycheck, so things will just work themselves out naturally."
 
2013-04-11 10:56:43 AM
I understand what Orth meant by we are increasingly always connected.  However the total lack of tact by a PR guy on a public forum like twitter earned him exactly what he got. Especially since he cannot officially comment on the Kotaku rumor that had the gaming community speculating on "always on".  Even if all our devices are connected when their was a fiasco less then two weeks previous you better use some discretion.

Until Microsoft actually puts its cards on the table the relentless speculation will continue.   Until they do I will discount them.
 
2013-04-11 11:03:12 AM
The suggestion was made on Slashdot that what might have happened is Orth lost an internal debate at Microsoft regarding the always on feature and took it to Twitter to continue to argue his case.  That would've been the fireable offense, the callous comments towards people in places like Wisconsin and Virginia were just the cherry on top of his smarmy attitude towards customers that Microsoft is trying to put damage control on.

I get the attitude too, as the poster above talks about in Seattle, I've seen this attitude crop up in places like Austin and Kansas City (Overland Park) towards the people who live outside of those metro areas.  It's understandable to a point, intellectual, youthful, etc, but it's bad business and it's generally a poor attitude to take in life.  I hope this guy figures this out and learns from it.  There's a reason why people hate hipsters.
 
2013-04-11 11:10:28 AM
what a shiat for brains.
 
2013-04-11 11:12:38 AM

RKade: Incin:Sorry, I can build a gaming PC for the same price, have all the benefits and no bullshiat.  And it will be running Windows 7.

Welcome to 2 generations of consoles ago, Incin. I may not have a lot of money but I have enough to save up for a rig that will run 360-quality games. Not on high... but hey, it works.

And it has Steam. That's always gangbusters for deals and such.


Consoles are getting better at the whole sales thing, but they don't seem to slash prices as much as some of the winter/summer sales.  I think it's due to not all console games being digital releases yet, and trying not to piss off the retailer stores by undercutting them so badly on still major titles.

Which is odd, because physical prices are falling pretty sharply these days.  I picked up RE 6 for $15 less then 6 months after release.  Metal Gear rising dropped $20 in some places as well, after less then a month.

I'd kill for regular steam style sales, at least on psn/xbla games and some of their games on demand titles.  Outside of PSplus though, you can't really get major stuff dirt cheap or even free.  Hopefully that changes next gen.

Till then, i'll stay 2/3rd pc gaming, 1/3rd console.
 
2013-04-11 11:17:38 AM
Yet the people who created Metro probably mostly still have jobs.
 
2013-04-11 11:18:03 AM
Here's what it comes down to... if you get to the point where you are so high up in a company where you are a "creative director" or a near exec position like that, you can no longer do things like "my opinions are of my own and do not represent the company I work for", especially on your public Twitter or Facebook accounts.

Christ... has no one learned from companies like Chick-fil-A, or the numerous other ones that have CEOs or other execs run their mouths in a public forum? When you get to that point, you've got to watch what you say, and be prepared to lay down on the sword if you fark up.
 
2013-04-11 11:24:25 AM

Generation_D: xanadian: BioWare is full of pretty smart people, it would seem...

Well, they managed to troll the creative head of XBOX to get his dumb ass fired, if thats what you mean.


How did they troll him?
 
2013-04-11 11:29:34 AM

FuturePastNow: Yet the people who created Metro probably mostly still have jobs.


The people who created Metro didn't go on Twitter and tell their user base that they're farking morons for not embracing their potential design decisions.

What's even more hilarious is people in the industry blaming the internet:

i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-11 11:34:20 AM

TheBlackrose: FuturePastNow: Yet the people who created Metro probably mostly still have jobs.

The people who created Metro didn't go on Twitter and tell their user base that they're farking morons for not embracing their potential design decisions.

What's even more hilarious is people in the industry blaming the internet:

[i.imgur.com image 522x430]


So Grant Shonkwiler is the next target?
 
2013-04-11 11:34:33 AM
Jeff: He'll get over it
 
2013-04-11 11:35:17 AM
So the always online feature is being removed?

What's that? They just fired some random guy no one had heard of until he opened his stupid social media hole? And the always online thing is going forward anyway?

Nice job, good effort.
 
2013-04-11 11:37:17 AM

js34603: So the always online feature is being removed?

What's that? They just fired some random guy no one had heard of until he opened his stupid social media hole? And the always online thing is going forward anyway?

Nice job, good effort.


There is no confirmation about the function even existing in the first place,  just rumors and speculation.

Of course, rumor and speculation is the lifeblood of the internet.
 
2013-04-11 11:39:47 AM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 I ain't saying it's right. But you're saying "always on" don't mean nothing, and I'm saying it does.  And when the internet gets a burr up it's ass about something  you don't give it a target to focus on, cause the internet will throw them into a glass motherfarking house.You know it,farking Marsellus knew it, and Adam Orth should have farking better known better.
 
2013-04-11 11:45:02 AM
Would've been hilarious if instead of firing/forcing him to resign, they assigned him to a branch of MS located in Janesville, WI or Blacksburg, VA.  I couldn't be happier to see this news though.  And the fact that Cliff Bleszinski appears to be upset by it just further affirms to me that this is a good thing.
 
2013-04-11 11:54:35 AM
Unless things have changed recently, Blacksburg is very connected.
 
2013-04-11 11:55:18 AM

TheBlackrose: What's even more hilarious is people in the industry blaming the internet:


Why the hell don't people learn that you should NOT badmouth your customers? WTF???
 
2013-04-11 12:05:01 PM
Here's my thing:

I'm looking into going back into the circus. I'd like to be able to play videogames on those long train runs. Obviously living and traveling by train means I won't have any internet connection unless I get a Sprint Hotspot or something. But that is not really good for gaming. So am I just doomed to play old gaming systems then that don't require internet access to play?
 
2013-04-11 12:08:10 PM

Richard_The_Clown: Here's my thing:

I'm looking into going back into the circus. I'd like to be able to play videogames on those long train runs. Obviously living and traveling by train means I won't have any internet connection unless I get a Sprint Hotspot or something. But that is not really good for gaming. So am I just doomed to play old gaming systems then that don't require internet access to play?


How would you use a console on a train? Do they have TVs that you can plug into? Honestly I've never been on a train that went further than a couple miles.

You'd probably be better off getting a gaming laptop and Steam. A decent mouse and you'd be set. Be sure to enable offline mode prior to hopping on the train, just to make sure.
 
2013-04-11 12:08:10 PM
i3.kym-cdn.com
Pffffffft.... amateur.
 
2013-04-11 12:08:43 PM

Burr: Jeff: He'll get over it


He'll get ov

DAMNIT
 
2013-04-11 12:10:14 PM
The most important lesson out of all this:  The internet is a terrible place.  Don't ever go there.
 
2013-04-11 12:14:56 PM

RoxtarRyan: TheBlackrose: What's even more hilarious is people in the industry blaming the internet:

Why the hell don't people learn that you should NOT badmouth your customers? WTF???


It's not even that. I mean, badmouthing your user base is such an obvious "don't do this." But when your account's profile puts your company's position on a pedestal and you proceed to cause a shiatstorm, that little "views does not represent the company" boilerplate won't save you.

However, what burns my goat is more the industry people playing the blame game. We've grown up in an age where personal responsibility no longer means anything. Whenever we as an individual do something wrong, it has to be someone else's fault. It just has to be. It can never be your own fault. Admitting you did something wrong or that something is your fault is perceived as a weakness.

The best I've seen thus far is people going, "HE WASN'T FIRED, HE RESIGNED." Guess people have never heard of a forced resignation before.

/This is corporate politics 101
 
2013-04-11 12:17:44 PM

Dr Dreidel: Even if he personally disagrees, even if the company disagrees, his job is to make the consumer understand why they disagree and how they can bridge the gap. Not to "troll", further antagonize, or play tone-deaf.


This. To me, there is no other way to look at this situation. Maybe it's because I occupy a public facing position in the field of IT and have to do this stuff all the time so I'm biased. The temptation a lot of the time is to take a very hard-line position (like he did) when you *know* the best way to do something and you just need people to buy into it. It gets tiring having to explain your position when doing so requires the general public to know everything that you do, and getting them on board involves details with which they have no experience. But that's the job, isn't it? Getting them to buy into the plan and understand it-- not dismiss concerns with "too bad, so sad" or an insulting comment. He can be the nicest guy in the world, but he was obviously wrong for that job.
 
2013-04-11 12:19:13 PM

Burr: js34603: So the always online feature is being removed?

What's that? They just fired some random guy no one had heard of until he opened his stupid social media hole? And the always online thing is going forward anyway?

Nice job, good effort.

There is no confirmation about the function even existing in the first place,  just rumors and speculation.

Of course, rumor and speculation is the lifeblood of the internet.


Actually. . .about that MS announced it in their own press release.  Media outlets picked up on it.  The rage spread and Sony basically came out and said 'Yea good thing WE'RE not doing that'.  Maybe the outrage will cause MS to change this 'feature' but I doubt it.
 
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