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(Komo)   ExxonMobil found liable for $236 million in New Hampshire pollution trial. Company claims the amount as excessive, says it will take them more than three hours to make that much money back   (komonews.com) divider line 18
    More: Followup, ExxonMobil, New Hampshire, Exxon, groundwater contamination, Oppenheimer & Co., Legal liability, pollution, Fadel Gheit  
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2662 clicks; posted to Business » on 11 Apr 2013 at 10:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-11 10:15:25 AM
3 votes:
Fark 'em. Fark 'em with a splintered railroad tie.

The fine shouldn't be a dollar value anyway, but a percent of income. 0.5% should be plenty. A penalty should really hurt them, maybe to dissuade them from damaging other people's property in the first place.
2013-04-11 04:07:57 PM
2 votes:

Tyrone Slothrop: When a company gets big enough that it's normal response to any problem is "throw lawyers at it until the other side runs out of time/money", that company needs to be broken up.


Dude, the corporations have won. Our country is going to be broken up before they will be. They're a bunch of goddamn vampires sucking the lifeblood out of us. When we've been bled dry, then they'll move on to a new victim.
2013-04-11 03:44:59 PM
2 votes:
When a company gets big enough that it's normal response to any problem is "throw lawyers at it until the other side runs out of time/money", that company needs to be broken up.
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-04-11 10:25:43 AM
2 votes:

whistleridge: bdub77: Yeah but they can pay a team of lawyers maybe $20 million to fight the case and if they get the entire thing thrown out or even a fraction of the amount settled down to say $200 million, then it's a better investment to fight it than pay it.

This is how profit-motivated assholes think.

You don't get rich by giving money away, or letting the little things slide. And you absolutely don't become the richest and most valuable company in the US by doing those things


Right.  You do it by getting the Congress to supplement your income with tax breaks, subsidies, and other corporate giveaways.

I am sick of people making corporate assholes to be heroes.  They're the great parasites of our time.
2013-04-11 10:24:33 AM
2 votes:
They should have to pony up every farking penny NOW or we start executing the CEOs.
2013-04-11 10:20:09 AM
2 votes:

The Irresponsible Captain: Fark 'em. Fark 'em with a splintered railroad tie.

The fine shouldn't be a dollar value anyway, but a percent of income. 0.5% should be plenty. A penalty should really hurt them, maybe to dissuade them from damaging other people's property in the first place.


What you are saying falls in line with a moronic comeback like "why does the left hate business?"

When you make as much as they do, as unethically as they do, and seem to have no real interest in moving towards cleaner, more ethical practices and products, you can absolutely suck it. The left and the right should hate businesses who behave as they do.

Sorry, I felt I needed to add that.
2013-04-11 10:16:39 AM
2 votes:
Yeah but they can pay a team of lawyers maybe $20 million to fight the case and if they get the entire thing thrown out or even a fraction of the amount settled down to say $200 million, then it's a better investment to fight it than pay it.

This is how profit-motivated assholes think.
2013-04-11 10:14:53 AM
2 votes:
If an individual polluted on that scale they would face jail time, but corporation are people (with special privileged that makes them immune from criminal charges).  So they are like super people.
2013-04-11 03:02:18 PM
1 votes:
Rules for Lawyers:

Step 1: Find a successful company earning a lot of money

Step 2: Use junk science to sue and lobby for bogus regulations for said company..call them something striking like "Clean Air" regulations so all the low-brow, "won't someone think of the children!" jury pool crowd will buy into it and ignore the real science.

Step 2: Find out what said company is doing to meet step 2 and use more junk science to sue them again, make sure to mention something like "poison groundwater" and such to cause the jury pool simpletons to freak out and buy the junk science.

Step 3: Profit and buy a multi-million dollar home and laugh all the way to the bank at the jury pool mouth breathers who are now busy whining about how high the price of gas (and everything else that requires transportation and delivery) is.
2013-04-11 01:25:58 PM
1 votes:

MugzyBrown: CheatCommando: Rarely. So rarely that when it does happen, it is newsworthy at the "man bites dog" level. Making CEOs criminally liable for the criminal actions of the corporations they run and applying the rule strictly would do more to encourage ethical conduct than any one other step.

How does a corporation commit a criminal act?  People commit criminal acts and people go to jail.  A CEO is criminally liable for his criminal acts. Should a CEO go to jail if the CFO raids the pension fund?


A corporation IS a person according to the courts.
2013-04-11 12:58:03 PM
1 votes:

Talondel: EdNortonsTwin: The Feds din't "make them" do anything. If the oil companies didn't want to pollute ground water than they shouldnt have used MTBE, period.

If only here were some sort of way for energy companies to publish these issues with things like full page ads in newspapers and and TV ads pointing out the contradictive pressure the feds are putting them under. Naw, let's just pollute ground water instead.

Since 1992, MTBE has been used at higher concentrations in some gasoline to fulfill the oxygenate requirements set by Congress in the 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments.

http://www.epa.gov/mtbe/gas.htm

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'make them.'  I think most people think of 'Do it, under penalty of law' as being forced to do it.  In your view, the next time the federal government passes a law someone doesn't like, they should just ignore it until someone gets thrown in jail?  Or would being thrown in jail still not qualify as being 'forced.'  I mean, they could have chosen jail over groundwater contamination, right?

The only viable alternative to MTBE that existed at the time (and for the most part, this continues to be true today) in ethanol, and that has similar groundwater contamination problems.

 ----
They, could have chose neither, but  they made their choice, and now they have to pay for for it.  You make it sound like whichever executives were responsible for releasing the fuel with the pollutant had no choice; like there some sort of gun to their head.

Reminds me of mothers who let their children get abused by their spouse because they don't want to caus a fuss or turn their lives upside down by turning on their husbands.

As I stated before on the issue pf PR -  BP had no problem spending a fortune on television and print campaigns stating how they are protecting people in the gulf post disaster.  If they can do mop-up, they can do preventative, but the CHOSE not to make stand for anything other than their own profit.
2013-04-11 12:13:09 PM
1 votes:

EdNortonsTwin: The Feds din't "make them" do anything. If the oil companies didn't want to pollute ground water than they shouldnt have used MTBE, period.

If only here were some sort of way for energy companies to publish these issues with things like full page ads in newspapers and and TV ads pointing out the contradictive pressure the feds are putting them under. Naw, let's just pollute ground water instead.


Since 1992, MTBE has been used at higher concentrations in some gasoline to fulfill the oxygenate requirements set by Congress in the 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments.

http://www.epa.gov/mtbe/gas.htm

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'make them.'  I think most people think of 'Do it, under penalty of law' as being forced to do it.  In your view, the next time the federal government passes a law someone doesn't like, they should just ignore it until someone gets thrown in jail?  Or would being thrown in jail still not qualify as being 'forced.'  I mean, they could have chosen jail over groundwater contamination, right?

The only viable alternative to MTBE that existed at the time (and for the most part, this continues to be true today) in ethanol, and that has similar groundwater contamination problems.
2013-04-11 12:05:44 PM
1 votes:

MugzyBrown: FYI executives of a corporation do go to jail.


Rarely. So rarely that when it does happen, it is newsworthy at the "man bites dog" level. Making CEOs criminally liable for the criminal actions of the corporations they run and applying the rule strictly would do more to encourage ethical conduct than any one other step.

Just look at the way they howled when they were made responsible for the truthfulness of their companies' financial statements under Sarbanes-Oxley.
2013-04-11 11:52:24 AM
1 votes:
pegasusnews.com
$236 million? No sweat. I'll have accounting cut you a check.
2013-04-11 10:39:33 AM
1 votes:
Feds: Add MTBE to your gasoline in order to meet Clean Air Act requirements.
Gas/Oil Co: But MTBE is bad for groundwater.  Here, we did a study.  See?
Feds: Don't care.  Clean Air Act.  Oxygenate that gas.  Or else.
Gas/Oil Co: Okay, but we warned you.

20 years pass.

States: Um guys, this MTBE stuff is showing up in our ground water.
Feds: Talk to Gas/Oil, they're the ones using it.
Gas/Oil Co : See, we told you so.
States: Um yeah, we're filing suit.
Gas/Oil Co :  Good for you, go get 'em!
States: No, against you.  You thought we'd sue the Feds? Do we look that stupid?
Gas/Oil Co : What? The Feds made us put that stuff in there.  We even warned them.  Look we did a study.
States (at trial):  Gas/Oil Co, isn't it true that you knew about the dangers of MTBE 20 years ago, and even did a study to that effect?
Gas/Oil Co: Why you little farkers!
Jury: Verdict for States!
Fark: Yay! Stick it to Gas/Oil Co.  It should have been 1000 times more!

http://www.epa.gov/mtbe/gas.htm
http://www.epa.gov/mtbe/water.htm
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-04-11 10:38:04 AM
1 votes:

MugzyBrown: whistleridge: Sadly, that number is barely an exaggeration. Exxon Mobil makes $160,000 per minute, for a profit of about $250 million per day.

How exactly do you throw a corporation in jail?

FYI executives of a corporation do go to jail.


This only works when the executives of said corporation don't have a hold of the system through campaign cash.  And they do.

The CEOs are supposed to be worth lots of money and deserve their huge paychecks.  If that is true then they ought to be on the hook when the corporations perpetrate massive fraud.  This is exactly what happened with Rick Scott.  He got paid EXORBITANT wages by a company that perpetrated what was, at that time, the largest organized Medicare fraud in history.  What happened... he got made the Governor of Florida.
2013-04-11 10:23:01 AM
1 votes:

TimonC346: The Irresponsible Captain: Fark 'em. Fark 'em with a splintered railroad tie.

The fine shouldn't be a dollar value anyway, but a percent of income. 0.5% should be plenty. A penalty should really hurt them, maybe to dissuade them from damaging other people's property in the first place.

What you are saying falls in line with a moronic comeback like "why does the left hate business?"

When you make as much as they do, as unethically as they do, and seem to have no real interest in moving towards cleaner, more ethical practices and products, you can absolutely suck it. The left and the right should hate businesses who behave as they do.

Sorry, I felt I needed to add that.


Who do think funds all those campaign ads come election time?
2013-04-11 10:14:52 AM
1 votes:
Sadly, that number is barely an exaggeration. Exxon Mobil makes $160,000 per minute, for a profit of about $250 million per day.
 
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