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(Daily Mail)   Exhausted, sleep deprived mother of premature twins lashes out at "Breastapo" for making her feel guilty, selfish and lazy for supplementing formula for breastmilk   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 248
    More: Hero, sleep deprivation, other mother, profiteers, Dannon, recipes, supermarkets, twin daughters  
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11382 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Apr 2013 at 10:15 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-11 08:47:31 AM
www.ifc.com
 
2013-04-11 09:32:14 AM
I'd just like to take this moment to give a special "fark you" to the old crone who came up to me while I was with my daughter in a café and hissed, "I hope that's breast milk in that bottle."
 
2013-04-11 09:39:53 AM
Could someone explain this nonsense to a 30 yr old stoner with no kids?  Please don't make me Google breast feeding news.
 
2013-04-11 09:48:33 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: I'd just like to take this moment to give a special "fark you" to the old crone who came up to me while I was with my daughter in a café and hissed, "I hope that's breast milk in that bottle."


This is one of the situations in life where "go fark yourself, biatch" is not only an acceptable response, it's actually the preferred one.

What IS it with some people?  Yes, breast milk is better than formula, especially for the first few months.  But for fark's sake, there's a hundred different reasons why you might see a stranger giving formula to their kid.  And in the final analysis, guess what -- even if it's because they're being "selfish" -- it's none of your farking business!  Sure, if you see them diluting the formula with vodak, that might be worth a mention to the appropriate authorities, but "using baby formula" is not child abuse, and bothering a stranger (who may have a perfect medical reason for bottle feeding) about it is simply reprehensible.

My daughter breast-fed from my wife for quite a while.  My son weaned himself at 6 months.  Weaned HIMSELF.  So should my wife have intentionally withheld anything but breastmilk from a child who was so active, and growing so fast, that he simply needed more food?  And how would that be less "cruel" than formula feeding?

There are multiple sides to this issue. My sister in law's due date is in May.  She's already told us that she has no intention of breastfeeding because she doesn't want her stupid-looking fake titties to become "ugly".  My sister-in-law is an idiot who should have been sterilized at puberty, but that's a whole other issue.  At this moment in time, and for women in this culture, you can choose to bottle-feed, and it's "fine".  Not optimal, but "fine"  We don't get to insist that other people raise their children perfectly,  If so, Honey Boo Boo would be a reality CRIME show.

OK, done babbling.   Hopefully this will be an amusing thread.
 
2013-04-11 09:56:32 AM
I would just beat those La Leche League Milk Mafia types to death with my formula bottle. If the bottle doesn't kill them the irony hopefully will.

There needs to be a comedy movie about this.
 
2013-04-11 10:03:09 AM
images3.wikia.nocookie.net

This is the only time I've ever felt the need to tell another woman how she should breastfeed her child. People need to mind their own business.
 
2013-04-11 10:10:02 AM

Altair: Could someone explain this nonsense to a 30 yr old stoner with no kids?  Please don't make me Google breast feeding news.


There are people who advocate breastfeeding at any cost, despite the numerous problems that can occur with breastfeeding like not producing enough milk to feed your baby, problems with latching, etc.

Add to that the stress and sleep deprivation of a newborn and bottle feeding is simply what some parents have to do to get by.

The "Breastapo" as it were, looks down on and vilifies these people as bad parents or lazy or both.

/2 kids
 
2013-04-11 10:18:45 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: I'd just like to take this moment to give a special "fark you" to the old crone who came up to me while I was with my daughter in a café and hissed, "I hope that's breast milk in that bottle."


Why didn't you just tell her to her wrinkly old face?

I don't get chicks, man. I just don't....
 
2013-04-11 10:19:08 AM
I almost throat punched the woman who came up when our son was born and threw down the guilt gauntlet to my wife for using formula.

Yes lady, my wife takes medication for her mental health and without that medication she might pose a danger to herself and others but because proven science on formula must be bunk she should threaten the health of herself and baby just to give my son breast milk.

Douche
 
2013-04-11 10:19:38 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: I'd just like to take this moment to give a special "fark you" to the old crone who came up to me while I was with my daughter in a café and hissed, "I hope that's breast milk in that bottle."


"Why no, it's Prestone."
 
2013-04-11 10:19:54 AM
Ooo! A HERO! Stop everything! Give her the farking Congressional Medal!
 
2013-04-11 10:21:04 AM
One of my friends is still dealing with guilt issues about breastfeeding, and her kid is almost 18 months. She was on FB worrying about her supply and I'm like, "Your snowflake is walking, talking and eating whatever she can stuff in her gob. It's about time to just put the titty away and get on with your life." Of course, I didn't actually post that comment.
 
2013-04-11 10:21:23 AM

Altair: Could someone explain this nonsense to a 30 yr old stoner with no kids?  Please don't make me Google breast feeding news.


People who are better and smarter than other people are sometimes so munificent that they will take time out of their busy lives to coach and encourage their less intelligent and awesome peers (if you could even call them that) as to how they should be living their lives.

For some reason, people view this with scorn and offence; they should really be thanking their magnanimous betters. I guess that's what you get when you point out some Plebeians' failures to them.
 
2013-04-11 10:21:30 AM

noitsnot: "Why no, it's Prestone."


I was going to get rid of my keyboard anyway, but you owe me for the Kona.
 
2013-04-11 10:22:36 AM

theorellior: One of my friends is still dealing with guilt issues about breastfeeding, and her kid is almost 18 months. She was on FB worrying about her supply and I'm like, "Your snowflake is walking, talking and eating whatever she can stuff in her gob. It's about time to just put the titty away and get on with your life." Of course, I didn't actually post that comment.


Why didn't you? I would have.
 
2013-04-11 10:22:47 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: I'd just like to take this moment to give a special "fark you" to the old crone who came up to me while I was with my daughter in a café and hissed, "I hope that's breast milk in that bottle."


Did you retort with something along the lines of, "And I hope you don't verbally judge every random stranger you encounter you miserable biatch."
 
2013-04-11 10:23:01 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: I'd just like to take this moment to give a special "fark you" to the old crone who came up to me while I was with my daughter in a café and hissed, "I hope that's breast milk in that bottle."


You should have said that benadryl dissolves easier in formula.
 
2013-04-11 10:24:34 AM
Eh, whenever they do that, sic the childfree brigade on them.  Watch 'em both burn.
 
2013-04-11 10:24:43 AM

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Douche


BIL?

Anyways, came to say something similar about my sister and her kid.
Also, when I was a babe, I was allergic to my mom's milk. I was allergic to formula. And a slew of other crap they tried. They finally found that soy milk worked for me, but this was before strangers found it acceptable to to get on people's case about breast feeding.
 
2013-04-11 10:27:11 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: I'd just like to take this moment to give a special "fark you" to the old crone who came up to me while I was with my daughter in a café and hissed, "I hope that's breast milk in that bottle."


Respond with, "Me too... I found the bottle on the floor of the bus on the ride over..."
 
2013-04-11 10:28:11 AM

theorellior: One of my friends is still dealing with guilt issues about breastfeeding, and her kid is almost 18 months. She was on FB worrying about her supply and I'm like, "Your snowflake is walking, talking and eating whatever she can stuff in her gob. It's about time to just put the titty away and get on with your life." Of course, I didn't actually post that comment.


This is beautiful.  You should have posted it.
 
2013-04-11 10:29:44 AM
The Toothless Preadator. Breastfeeding as Sexual Assault.
 
2013-04-11 10:29:54 AM
We ended at 6 months. It was a good run. We supplemented with formula all the time. I stayed home the first summer and when I ran out of my wife's milk in the freezer, I mixed formula. I'm fat and have manboobs but that won't cut it, ya know?

She had numerous problems with latching and pumping early on as well. Got her really upset, which is understandable. I never had anybody say anything to us but, by god, I would have went all internet tough guy on them. Unless I'm feeding my kid a beer with a nipple attached, STFU.
 
2013-04-11 10:30:06 AM
It beats me why anyone who could breast feed would chose formula. Breast is free and there's no faffing about with sterilisation, carrying stuff around, getting supplies and so on. That said, there are lots of perfectly good reasons for not being able to breast feed, and in those cases you're hardly going to let the kid starve to death.
 
2013-04-11 10:31:45 AM
www.funnyphotos.net.au

iwidk.com
 
2013-04-11 10:32:00 AM

stonicus: God Is My Co-Pirate: I'd just like to take this moment to give a special "fark you" to the old crone who came up to me while I was with my daughter in a café and hissed, "I hope that's breast milk in that bottle."

Respond with, "Me too... I found the bottle on the floor of the bus on the ride over..."


Or, "As long as the airport security guards think it is, Allah willing"...
 
2013-04-11 10:32:53 AM
My wife had no desire what-so-ever to breastfeed our daughter, so we opted for formula.  Guess what? She's turned out great (so far, but we're not to the teen years yet...that I'll blame entirely on formula when the time comes). She's ridiculously tall, smart as a whip and a kind, gentle soul.  But thanks to the giant douchebags both in real life and on the internet who militantly insist on breast feeding for all, my wife had to struggle with a couple of months of guilt over the whole thing (on top of mildpostpartum depression).  So thanks for that, breast feeding busybodies!  This isdefinitely one area where there needs to be a lot more STFU and mind your own business.
 
2013-04-11 10:34:08 AM
When I was in a Wal Mart in Central Florida (let that sink in for a while) a woman with three filthy children started talking to me. My friend, who was one of those "Awww...babies" types, asked how old the littlest one was. Answer. 8 months. I asked what was in the bottle. Answer: root beer.

So you know. Worse thinks that formula
 
2013-04-11 10:34:29 AM
 
2013-04-11 10:34:37 AM

trotsky: I would have went all internet tough guy on them. Unless I'm feeding my kid a beer with a nipple attached, STFU.


All I would say is it better be a hop bomb; Double IPAs help 'em sleep.

/semicolon? gtfo of here
 
2013-04-11 10:35:59 AM

Rev.K: Altair: Could someone explain this nonsense to a 30 yr old stoner with no kids?  Please don't make me Google breast feeding news.

There are people who advocate breastfeeding at any cost, despite the numerous problems that can occur with breastfeeding like not producing enough milk to feed your baby, problems with latching, etc.

Add to that the stress and sleep deprivation of a newborn and bottle feeding is simply what some parents have to do to get by.

The "Breastapo" as it were, looks down on and vilifies these people as bad parents or lazy or both.

/2 kids


For what it's worth, I saw two different lactation consultants after my first was born and neither was anti-formula in my situation (I was eventually able to breastfeed anyway but formula was needed in the interim). It's not usually the experts who are the breastapo - it's ignorant people with no sense of compassion for others.

What was the article talking about with the whole shortage thing? Is this something that's going to start happening in the US?
 
2013-04-11 10:36:13 AM

orbister: It beats me why anyone who could breast feed would chose formula. Breast is free and there's no faffing about with sterilisation, carrying stuff around, getting supplies and so on. That said, there are lots of perfectly good reasons for not being able to breast feed, and in those cases you're hardly going to let the kid starve to death.


sometimes the woman, who's been waiting 9 months to drink a beer or smoke a joint, just wants to unwind every once in a while without endangering baby.
 
2013-04-11 10:36:42 AM

WhippingBoy: Why didn't you? I would have.


Satan's Bunny Slippers: This is beautiful. You should have posted it.


Well, she is actually a friend IRL, and I don't want to be an asshole. And I've seen a small but nonzero percentage of my female acquaintances struggle with "mommy brain", so a lot of her freakout is hormonal. Hopefully once she weans the kid she'll calm down. Of course, there's always the chance she'll keep breastfeeding until puberty.
 
2013-04-11 10:37:01 AM

orbister: It beats me why anyone who could breast feed would chose formula. Breast is free and there's no faffing about with sterilisation, carrying stuff around, getting supplies and so on. That said, there are lots of perfectly good reasons for not being able to breast feed, and in those cases you're hardly going to let the kid starve to death.


She's not choosing formula, she's breastfeeding but using formula for the couple night feeds so her husband can do them  because small babies eat all the time.

I don't know where this huge brigade of net nannies or whatever she's finding is coming from. Of course breastfeeding is preferred, every knows that, but if you occasionally use a bottle, so what?Or some people can't produce enough milk,or some kids are adopted and probably a few other things.She seems to be guilting herself. I don't go on the net and read columns daily about "Breastfeed all the time, you terrible mom", and have never heard it come up in public. Then again, maybe if I had a kid, these things would start popping up on me?
 
2013-04-11 10:38:16 AM
If the Lord had intended breastfeeding in public, He wouldn't have made it a sin.
 
2013-04-11 10:39:33 AM

Altair: Could someone explain this nonsense to a 30 yr old stoner with no kids?  Please don't make me Google breast feeding news.


People who don't have much going for them will define themselves by whatever they can do right and feel good about. For some people, it's model trains. For others, it's breastfeeding. For me, it's fixing computers. (I'm not good for much else.) Within each specialty, there's usually a vocal minority who only barely tolerate the existence of other people who either lack their "talent," or disagree vehemently about the specifics. (Ever see a blog rant about stupid old people that can't use computers? Or about dumb people who don't use keyboard shortcuts?)

Mostly it's insecurity - if somebody else disagrees with me on the best way to do XYZ, I could interpret that as disapproval on their part of the methods I've been using. (No, dude, a digital signal is a digital signal - gold plated connectors on a SPDIF don't matter.)

When kids are involved, it's just more personal. Fear's involved too. (A fight? What? How dare you question my abilities as a mother, I'm an excellent parent! It's YOUR KID'S FAULT!)

I suspect if more people were stoners, the world would be a better place. Keep on keepin' on.
 
2013-04-11 10:39:53 AM

The Snow Dog: Ooo! A HERO! Stop everything! Give her the farking Congressional Medal!


No one has ever gone broke in America serving up a woman who makes other women feel superior.
 
2013-04-11 10:41:07 AM

dv-ous: (No, dude, a digital signal is a digital signal - gold plated connectors on a SPDIF don't matter.)


O.o

That Best Buy salesman LIED to me!
 
2013-04-11 10:43:03 AM
I don't know who is annoying, the people who freak out at women who can't breastfeed or the ones who can't breastfeed who write crabby online articles. "Eww, you're a lazy biatch because you used formula!" "Eww, you're a stuck up biatch because I couldn't breastfeed!"
 
2013-04-11 10:43:12 AM
As a newborn, I was losing weight while being breastfed. My parents told me what the problem was (allergy, lack of supply, etc.), but I don't remember what it was. As soon as my parents switched me to formula, I started gaining weight and quickly caught up with other kids my age. My mother caught a lot of shiat for making the switch, particularly from her mother-in-law, but the alternative was letting me starve to death.
 
2013-04-11 10:43:17 AM

dahmers love zombie: God Is My Co-Pirate: I'd just like to take this moment to give a special "fark you" to the old crone who came up to me while I was with my daughter in a café and hissed, "I hope that's breast milk in that bottle."

This is one of the situations in life where "go fark yourself, biatch" is not only an acceptable response, it's actually the preferred one.

What IS it with some people?  Yes, breast milk is better than formula, especially for the first few months.  But for fark's sake, there's a hundred different reasons why you might see a stranger giving formula to their kid.  And in the final analysis, guess what -- even if it's because they're being "selfish" -- it's none of your farking business!  Sure, if you see them diluting the formula with vodak, that might be worth a mention to the appropriate authorities, but "using baby formula" is not child abuse, and bothering a stranger (who may have a perfect medical reason for bottle feeding) about it is simply reprehensible.

My daughter breast-fed from my wife for quite a while.  My son weaned himself at 6 months.  Weaned HIMSELF.  So should my wife have intentionally withheld anything but breastmilk from a child who was so active, and growing so fast, that he simply needed more food?  And how would that be less "cruel" than formula feeding?

There are multiple sides to this issue. My sister in law's due date is in May.  She's already told us that she has no intention of breastfeeding because she doesn't want her stupid-looking fake titties to become "ugly".  My sister-in-law is an idiot who should have been sterilized at puberty, but that's a whole other issue.  At this moment in time, and for women in this culture, you can choose to bottle-feed, and it's "fine".  Not optimal, but "fine"  We don't get to insist that other people raise their children perfectly,  If so, Honey Boo Boo would be a reality CRIME show.

OK, done babbling.   Hopefully this will be an amusing thread.



THIS^^^^^^

Many people do try to be a little helpful with advice, sure, so take most of the kind-hearted comments with grace.  But the mean-spirited ones, like the old crone in the article?  "FARK OFF BIATCH" is a perfectly reasonable response.

New moms are nervous, so just settle down and don't make the goofs of the world bother you.
 
2013-04-11 10:43:52 AM
octopied: I don't go on the net and read columns daily about "Breastfeed all the time, you terrible mom", and have never heard it come up in public. Then again, maybe if I had a kid, these things would start popping up on me?

Oh yeah, the sheer volume of unsolicited (and mostly unwelcome) advice you received when people find out you (or your wife, in my case) are expecting is breathtaking.  Apparently raising kids is like driving; lots of people who participate think of themselves as experts while they view everyone else around them trying to do the same thing as incompetent morons doing it all wrong.
 
2013-04-11 10:45:27 AM

dahmers love zombie: stonicus: God Is My Co-Pirate: I'd just like to take this moment to give a special "fark you" to the old crone who came up to me while I was with my daughter in a café and hissed, "I hope that's breast milk in that bottle."

Respond with, "Me too... I found the bottle on the floor of the bus on the ride over..."

Or, "As long as the airport security guards think it is, Allah willing"...


HA!

Also a WTF to the lactation consultant who told me off for supplementing with formula, saying very snottily, "You do realize that will make her sleep more, don't you?"

Lady, don't tempt me. She hadn't slept, unless held upright in my arms, for six straight weeks. I had bleeding nipples and PPD. I was this close to selling her to the gypsies.
 
2013-04-11 10:47:27 AM
This is what makes the WIC Program and the infant formula companies "strange bedfellows" in the U.S.  The nutritionists preach "Breast is Best," but the alternative provided is a one-year supply of free top shelf "artificial baby milk."

/Yes, I know that there are practical reasons for a woman to chose bottle over breast
 
2013-04-11 10:47:37 AM
You definitely should breastfeed babies for the first six months.  But it's not my business if you don't, and I'd never say a word about it to a stranger (or a friend for that matter).  Stupid is as stupid does, and more dumb people just makes those of us with brains a little better off.
 
2013-04-11 10:51:11 AM
Hey, hey. hey, let's not be too hard on the Breastapo.  Without them, we wouldn't have the weirdness that is attachment parenting and extreme breastfeeding.
 
2013-04-11 10:51:42 AM

SoupJohnB: This is what makes the WIC Program and the infant formula companies "strange bedfellows" in the U.S.  The nutritionists preach "Breast is Best," but the alternative provided is a one-year supply of free top shelf "artificial baby milk."

/Yes, I know that there are practical reasons for a woman to chose bottle over breast


They provide additional grocery benefits to women who breastfeed.  Not a dollar to dollar equivalency, bbut formula is ridiculously expensive, so really you'll come out ahead if you're breastfeeding.  The other side of that is why you'll also see people trying to sell formula on the resale market.
 
2013-04-11 10:52:39 AM
A guy I worked was in the grocery line buying formula for his young-un. The lady behind him started going on about how breast milk is soooo much better for the baby. He turned around an looked her in the eye and said "My wife just died...thanks."

He said the color ran out of her face after that remark.

/No woman actually died in this story
 
2013-04-11 10:53:28 AM
Why didn't the lady in TFA supplement? Sounds like she went whole hog (cow?) on the formula.
Either way it's her business and kudos to her for breastfeeding in the first place. Apparently it is not as easy for some as everyone would have you believe. We got really lucky with our kids, but even so we used formula sometimes...and we live near the epicenter of the La Leche League of Doom! Man, those people are straight up CRAZY! They really think you should breastfeed your kids until they are like 6 or something....they were in a local parade and it was just creepy
 
2013-04-11 10:53:41 AM

octopied: I don't go on the net and read columns daily about "Breastfeed all the time, you terrible mom", and have never heard it come up in public


It's not said in exactly those words, but in a "peer-pressure/bullying/guilting" way.

You take vulnerable, scared people who want the absolute best for their child, bombard them with the message that "breast is best" and list all the wonderful benefits of breast milk vs formula, and add in people who cannot talk about formula without snearing, and you've got "Breastfeed all the time, you terrible mom"

It's like the organisations that are in charge of pushing breast feeding are afraid that if they admit that formula happens, then no one will breast feed at all.

/no kids
//don't like seeing people in emotional distress because breast feeding isn't working out.
 
2013-04-11 10:53:52 AM

Cortez the Killer: A guy I worked was in the grocery line buying formula for his young-un. The lady behind him started going on about how breast milk is soooo much better for the baby. He turned around an looked her in the eye and said "My wife just died...thanks."

He said the color ran out of her face after that remark.

/No woman actually died in this story


A guy I worked with....I'm straight, I swear!
 
2013-04-11 10:54:05 AM
My first kid wouldn't breast feed so he was a formula baby, second breast feeds like crazy. Both are doing just fine. The internet is the worst place to go for advice with a baby, so many "do as I did/suggest or your baby is going to be a serial killer" mom's out there. It really makes me feel sorry for new mothers, they hate and judge each other worse than any other group of women i've seen (including the teengirl squad).
 
2013-04-11 10:54:11 AM
No one's an hero here.

You're not a superhuman mom-of-the-year for heroically breastfeeding your kids even though your breasts will becomes as sackcloth and your nipples as sandpaper; and you're not the worst person in the woooooooorld if you give the kid formula.

Anyone who comes up to you and impugns your choice should be politely told to get the FARK out of your murder-space, post-haste. Anyone who wishes to politely discuss the issue, perhaps with the motivation to hear and be heard, should be given safe passage through your murder-space for the duration of the polite discussion.

Peperony (slices) and chease.

// I do like how every parenting choice now has a full-on army on both sides willing to go to war over an MMR vaccination - that's a special kind of "I don't want to live on this planet"
 
2013-04-11 10:57:42 AM
cdn.fearnet.com
Did someone order a Breastapo?
 
2013-04-11 10:59:02 AM
My son will be 6 weeks old tomorrow.  My wife just simply does not produce enough milk to fill him up.  He came 3 weeks early, and has trouble latching on, so most times she just pumps and gives it to him in a bottle.  She pumps every 2-3 hours, and it isn't enough.  The Doctor said he will need an extra ounce of milk per feeding each week.  He keeps needing more, my wife keeps producing the same.  Right now he is getting probably 2/3's milk and 1/3 formula a day, with the ratio changing more to formula a little each week.  When it's 3am, and he's finished everything you just pumped yet he's still hungry, what else are you supposed to do besides get him some formula?  These dumb biatches need to STFU.
 
2013-04-11 10:59:33 AM
The ironic part is that most of those complaining were probably bottle fed because that was the advice doctors gave when they were babies.

/coworker of mine has 3 kids which were all born several years apart. At the doctor's orders one always slept on its stomach, one always on it side and one on it's back.

//doctors don't know shiat.
/// threes
 
2013-04-11 10:59:41 AM
There are reasons people need to use formula, none of which need to be explained to any idiot that feels the need to ask, factors including but not limited to woman's health and their ability to produce.

It took Mrs. AgentBang almost 2 weeks for her milk to come in after giving birth. The lactation consultant we saw said that we needed to do a round the clock combo formula / nurse / pump routine to kickstart the boobehs. My wife desperately wanted to only nurse, so we went through this routine every 2-2.5 hours, round the clock. Eventually it worked and we got off the formula. But we needed that formula at the start just to make sure our kid didn't, like, starve and stuff.

I will admit that before we had the baby I was confused why anyone in their right mind would not choose to breastfeed (not that I ever approached anyone, that would be rude). Going through what we did, I will never wonder again why people use formula.

Although I do know someone who said she didn't want to nurse because it interfered with her watching her programs...still not too sure about that, but I won't judge.
 
2013-04-11 11:00:43 AM

dahmers love zombie: My son weaned himself at 6 months. Weaned HIMSELF.


So your son is gay?

/NTTAWWT
 
2013-04-11 11:01:16 AM
Breast fed for the first year and a half, but I honestly don't care what anyone else does. Worked fine for me, worked out great for Lil Bee, he's smart as a whip, way taller than I expected, (I'm 5'4", he's over 4' at age 6), and other than a few ear infections, has been perfectly healthy. Plus.. it's free and cuts down on breast cancer risk. My grandmother died of breast cancer at 42, so I'm doing everything I can do reduce the risk.
 
2013-04-11 11:02:39 AM

Dr Dreidel: // I do like how every parenting choice now has a full-on army on both sides willing to go to war over an MMR vaccination - that's a special kind of "I don't want to live on this planet"


Oh, great. Now you've done it. Shall we open the discussion on circumcision while we're at it?
 
2013-04-11 11:03:37 AM
cdn.motinetwork.net

I also approve of drinking from breasts.
 
2013-04-11 11:03:42 AM
My wife was relieved that both kids could be breast fed.  They were for 6 months then it was on to the formula.  My son had two top and two bottom teeth by that time (and they were opposite of each other...ouch) and my daughter, being the curly redheaded child she is, was violent about feeding (punching, pinching, twisting, etc..), so it was extra incentive to cut them off.

We were done with formula for both after a year (moved onto whole milk in sippy cups).

Yeah, anybody who goes out of their way to force their views on you without getting the whole story are assholes. Some people can't produce milk, and they are usually depressed about it to begin with, without you coming along and acting all high and mighty and reminding them that they can't produce milk.

On the other hand, I did know a few parents who used formula because they were lazy.  In one case, its because she didn't want to "have disfigured nipples".

/she had more problems then that
//poor kid never had a chance
 
2013-04-11 11:04:43 AM

theorellior: Dr Dreidel: // I do like how every parenting choice now has a full-on army on both sides willing to go to war over an MMR vaccination - that's a special kind of "I don't want to live on this planet"

Oh, great. Now you've done it. Shall we open the discussion on circumcision while we're at it?


Shut.Up.
This is off to such a good start.
 
2013-04-11 11:06:31 AM

Burr: In one case, its because she didn't want to "have disfigured nipples"


Not trying to sound like a feminist here or anything but that sounds like a damned fine reason to me.
 
2013-04-11 11:06:32 AM

busy chillin': trotsky: I would have went all internet tough guy on them. Unless I'm feeding my kid a beer with a nipple attached, STFU.

All I would say is it better be a hop bomb; Double IPAs help 'em sleep.

/semicolon? gtfo of here


I find beer gives them gas. I use boubon. Does the trick, uses less liquid and gets them down to nap really quick. Can't use the cheap stuff though. Only top shelf for my kid.
 
2013-04-11 11:06:44 AM
Feed yer baby's whatever the hell you want.  Unless yer vegan, because babies starving to death makes me all stabby.  I raised my youngest on a steady diet of breast milk and meat, wife caught me feeding him bbq beef ribs before he had more than 2 teeth, had him teething on pork ribs.  Boy has got a lot of muscle for a 9 year old and almost no fat.  I would say the experiment was a success.
 
2013-04-11 11:07:16 AM
AgentBang:
It took Mrs. AgentBang almost 2 weeks for her milk to come in after giving birth. The lactation consultant we saw said that we needed to do a round the clock combo formula / nurse / pump routine to kickstart the boobehs. My wife desperately wanted to only nurse, so we went through this routine every 2-2.5 hours, round the clock. Eventually it worked and we got off the formula. But we needed that formula at the start just to make sure our kid didn't, like, starve and stuff.

So, did you like the smell of maple syrup after all that?

/making an assumption
 
2013-04-11 11:08:05 AM
I literally lost my shiat one night while I was pouring the defrosted breast milk and I spilled the entire thing.  I was in tears.  I was pretty much crying over spilled milk.  She came in the kitchen, wondering what the fuss was about.  (I have a GODDAMMIT MOTHERfarkER!! kind of temper over small things).  Reassured me it was OK, and I mixed a batch of formula.  I knew how hard she was working to get that stuff out.  She was stressed from returning to work 2 weeks after the birth, and I was so at a loss as to help her depression over her drying up at 4 weeks.  I didn't care about the expensive breast pump. I knew that formula was just fine.  I knew she was trying so hard and it killed her that it just wasn't working.

One time, some spilled and got in my mouth.  I...I tried some.  It was...not bad.

Kudos to all you Mom's out there.  Yeah, we are on your rollercoaster of pregnancy, birth and what follows.  But at least we aren't the actual rollercoaster you are.  I wonder what kind of assholes men would turn out to be if were were the ones getting pregnant.

/only skimmed article.
 
2013-04-11 11:08:36 AM
Breastfeeding is good.

The breast nazis that demand you breastfeed until your kid stops all by themselves have children that tell ask for left over right boob and feel the need to shame you if your kid weened themselves earlier than 4 can shut up any time now.

//I know far too many breastfeeding extremists.
 
2013-04-11 11:09:17 AM

Splish: SoupJohnB: This is what makes the WIC Program and the infant formula companies "strange bedfellows" in the U.S.  The nutritionists preach "Breast is Best," but the alternative provided is a one-year supply of free top shelf "artificial baby milk."

/Yes, I know that there are practical reasons for a woman to chose bottle over breast

They provide additional grocery benefits to women who breastfeed.  Not a dollar to dollar equivalency, bbut formula is ridiculously expensive, so really you'll come out ahead if you're breastfeeding.  The other side of that is why you'll also see people trying to sell formula on the resale market.


That's definitely the upside: Moms receive good groceries from WIC, both during and after pregnancy.  It makes them healthier, regardless of what they "choose" to do, as I meant to say.

/But yeah, don't get me started on selling any surplus formula online
 
2013-04-11 11:09:53 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: I'd just like to take this moment to give a special "fark you" to the old crone who came up to me while I was with my daughter in a café and hissed, "I hope that's breast milk in that bottle."


he's probably dead by now.

/it can happen
 
2013-04-11 11:10:40 AM

phrawgh: If the Lord had intended breastfeeding in public, He wouldn't have made it a sin.


My new keyboard! crap
 
2013-04-11 11:12:03 AM
All I saw was this...

i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2013-04-11 11:12:45 AM
These people suck. When my kid was 6 days old, a family tragedy happened and my breastmilk dried up overnight. The doctor assured me it was normal b/c of the stress etc. I got so much flack from people b/c of it. When I had my second child four years later, my milk never came in. People asked me in restaurants, at malls, anywhere in general why I wasn't breastfeeding. When I would tell them, the most common response was, "You need to try harder. You're taking the lazy way out." My husband usually responded after that but FARK YOU BOOB NAZIS! It still bothers me.
 
2013-04-11 11:13:32 AM
Sheesh, it's just formula. It's not like she was vaccinating the kid.
 
2013-04-11 11:14:23 AM
Because breast feeding laws are totally the same as the secret police who helped round up and exterminate six million Jews.
 
2013-04-11 11:14:33 AM
All the anger and outrage from these mothers is simply their guilt innapropriately expressed.
 
2013-04-11 11:14:42 AM
When the wife had the boy, she tried and tried to breastfeed, she put that boy on her 24/7 it seemed like. When she wasn't feeding, she was trying to pump. In the end, she just couldn't make any real volume and he wasn't interested (even the "breastapo" couldn't make it work). Less than 1 month in we went from supplementing with formula to straight up formula.

The boy is now 10+ months old, healthier than any kid ever, active as hell, 90% on all the charts, sleeps through the night, plays gently with the cats, is eating big boy food by himself, and is totally happy all the time.

Whatever benefits breastfeeding has over formula are nothing compared to what even slightly more involved parenting can bring to the table.
 
2013-04-11 11:16:53 AM
I was amazed at the 'advice' we got from complete strangers when the wife was pregnant and in the first 6 months or so after the kid was born.  I was out with the wife for dinner when she was carrying our first, and she orders an apple juice and soda water.  It looks like white wine, so they brought it in a wine glass...  Three women commented on the 'wine' and how no amount of alcohol is safe for a fetus during the course of our meal.  Blah, blah, blah.  What amazed me is these folks we didn't know expected an explanation beyond "How about you STFU and get back to your table before I call the manager and have you thrown out?"  Worse, my wife felt the need to explain and defend herself.  I had to cut her off and tell her 'It's none of their business what's in your glass."  In most cases the guy with them looked horribly embarrassed by their partners meddling.  After that I'd always order her apple juice and soda just to troll the busybodies.

Neither kid breastfed well and she got a lot of 'advice' about that and guilt when we just went with formula.  She was near tears one time on the phone with a 'friend' about the issue.  "Formula is tantamount to child abuse" was the way the discussion started...  I just took the handset from her, told the friend 'It's not your concern what we feed our kid, screw off.' and hung up the phone..  Women are truly horrible creatures in a group.
 
2013-04-11 11:18:33 AM
Three kids, 9, 5 and 2, all healthy, no allergies or cancer or homicidal tendencies, which is shocking since they were raised on formula. The convenience of nursing/lack of sterilizing/no STUPID farkING BOTTLES WITH MORE PARTS THAN A GODDAMN SPACE SHUTTLE/antibodies and stuff being passed to the kid, sure, it's great. However, it isn't like you're the devil if you use formula.

The most frustrating part is farknut can't coont piece of shiat nazi assholes who go on and on and on about it without ever one farking time mentioning the myriad possible reasons (most of which seem to have been covered here) that some mothers can't do it. You're not a worthless mom if you can't nurse your kid. They're still alive and all, ya know, because you're taking care of them and being a mom. Some people can't get the greater good (the greater...good) of that into their tiny farking minds.

The people who seem to be the most militant about it seem to mostly use it as an excuse to stand on a soapbox and berate other people or as a good cause for attention whoring. Either way, how does that show any understanding or compassion for moms who are really struggling with it? Christ, this farking subject....sorry.

Also lulz @ breastapo.
 
2013-04-11 11:19:31 AM
my children 5 and 7 were on formula from the day they were born, my wife never wanted to breast feed. guess what boob feeder nazi's, both are prefectly healthy, both very intelligent, my daughter is actually ahead of her year for school, both have slept whole nights from about 3 months on. Stop trying to make women feel bad for using formula, you are not all earth mommas driving vw buses, we knew slamming jack and coke the night you got pregnant
 
2013-04-11 11:20:29 AM

what_now: When I was in a Wal Mart in Central Florida (let that sink in for a while) a woman with three filthy children started talking to me. My friend, who was one of those "Awww...babies" types, asked how old the littlest one was. Answer. 8 months. I asked what was in the bottle. Answer: root beer.

So you know. Worse thinks that formula


Just out of curiosity, do you remember where the Walmart was?

/Central Floridian.
 
2013-04-11 11:22:07 AM
My kids were all formula-fed, because their mother was on medications that would pass into the breast milk.

So, there are circumstances where breast milk is NOT the best option.

/The more you know.
 
2013-04-11 11:22:55 AM

Flakeloaf: Sheesh, it's just formula. It's not like she was vaccinating the kid.


Well played.
 
2013-04-11 11:24:55 AM

dahmers love zombie: God Is My Co-Pirate: I'd just like to take this moment to give a special "fark you" to the old crone who came up to me while I was with my daughter in a café and hissed, "I hope that's breast milk in that bottle."

This is one of the situations in life where "go fark yourself, biatch" is not only an acceptable response, it's actually the preferred one.

What IS it with some people?  Yes, breast milk is better than formula, especially for the first few months.  But for fark's sake, there's a hundred different reasons why you might see a stranger giving formula to their kid.  And in the final analysis, guess what -- even if it's because they're being "selfish" -- it's none of your farking business!  Sure, if you see them diluting the formula with vodak, that might be worth a mention to the appropriate authorities, but "using baby formula" is not child abuse, and bothering a stranger (who may have a perfect medical reason for bottle feeding) about it is simply reprehensible.

My daughter breast-fed from my wife for quite a while.  My son weaned himself at 6 months.  Weaned HIMSELF.  So should my wife have intentionally withheld anything but breastmilk from a child who was so active, and growing so fast, that he simply needed more food?  And how would that be less "cruel" than formula feeding?

There are multiple sides to this issue. My sister in law's due date is in May.  She's already told us that she has no intention of breastfeeding because she doesn't want her stupid-looking fake titties to become "ugly".  My sister-in-law is an idiot who should have been sterilized at puberty, but that's a whole other issue.  At this moment in time, and for women in this culture, you can choose to bottle-feed, and it's "fine".  Not optimal, but "fine"  We don't get to insist that other people raise their children perfectly,  If so, Honey Boo Boo would be a reality CRIME show.

OK, done babbling.   Hopefully this will be an amusing thread.


My wife has done that before, because one of these mothers told her she was a bad mother for allowing our kid to wean himself at 7 or so months.  Allowing is not what happened.  And we worried about it.  We went with it though, and he's a great, precocious little kid.
 
2013-04-11 11:25:41 AM

what_now: When I was in a Wal Mart in Central Florida (let that sink in for a while) a woman with three filthy children started talking to me. My friend, who was one of those "Awww...babies" types, asked how old the littlest one was. Answer. 8 months. I asked what was in the bottle. Answer: root beer.

So you know. Worse thinks that formula


It makes it more hilarious to me when I imagine the woman's response sounded like "Rut Bare" for root beer.

/Only been to Florida once
//It was Disney World so doesn't count
 
2013-04-11 11:26:08 AM

Cortez the Killer: Cortez the Killer: A guy I worked was in the grocery line buying formula for his young-un. The lady behind him started going on about how breast milk is soooo much better for the baby. He turned around an looked her in the eye and said "My wife just died...thanks."

He said the color ran out of her face after that remark.

/No woman actually died in this story

A guy I worked with....I'm straight, I swear!



Well, if he's gay you should give him a BJ for being that brilliant.
 
2013-04-11 11:26:16 AM

Altair: Could someone explain this nonsense to a 30 yr old stoner with no kids?  Please don't make me Google breast feeding news.


When you have kids you'll rapidly find that an inordinate number of people, many of them strangers who know nothing of your circumstances, can't restrain themselves from foisting highly judgmental advice onto you regarding every aspect of parenting imaginable.

IMO you've got to develop a 'haters gonna hate' attitude and do what you believe is best for your kid.
 
2013-04-11 11:27:27 AM
Nothing wrong with a little formula. Contrary to popular belief, a newborn baby does not always latch and eat. My brother and I were bottle fed. I have asthma, he does not.

My daughter was breast fed about 75-80%. Knock wood but she's had the sniffles about twice in 2.5 years.

Of course that will change next winter when she is in school.
 
2013-04-11 11:28:37 AM
If you live long enough, you will see everything old become new again.  Within my lifetime, the notion of breastfeeding children was considered quaint.  Folks who couldn't afford formula would breastfeed but they weren't doing the best thing for their babies - feeding them a formula that was scientifically developed to be the ideal nutrition for babies.  Not to mention that a woman couldn't be totally liberated if she was tied down to having a leech attached to her boobs every couple hours.  How on earth could she pursue her career with that nonsense going on?  So now we've come full circle again.
 
2013-04-11 11:30:54 AM

what_now: When I was in a Wal Mart in Central Florida (let that sink in for a while)


Yeah - Christ, was that your community service sentence or something?
 
2013-04-11 11:31:24 AM

busy chillin': trotsky: I would have went all internet tough guy on them. Unless I'm feeding my kid a beer with a nipple attached, STFU.

All I would say is it better be a hop bomb; Double IPAs help 'em sleep.


When my older son was about 18 months old, he suddenly became very interested in my beer. For those of you who don't have kids, at that age, they look all discombobulated and toddler-y, but can move like ninjas if you're not ever vigilant and there's something they want. Especially if it's something they shouldn't have.

So, if I got up to pee while watching a ballgame, and didn't remember to put my glass somewhere high, I'd come back to the lad trying to down a pint.

Then I got smart. I bought a super hop-bombed IPA, poured myself a glass, and waited. Sure enough, the kid swiped my glass and took himself a huge drink. I was able to grab the glass before he dropped it, and the look of betrayal on his face was priceless. It broke him of that behavior, immediately.
 
2013-04-11 11:31:49 AM

theorellior: One of my friends is still dealing with guilt issues about breastfeeding, and her kid is almost 18 months. She was on FB worrying about her supply and I'm like, "Your snowflake is walking, talking and eating whatever she can stuff in her gob. It's about time to just put the titty away and get on with your life." Of course, I didn't actually post that comment.


I think breastfeeding is fine, if you can (the kids are six feet and taller, no health issues, perfectly fit, and they never saw anything BUT bottles), but when the teeth come in, isn't that nature's way of saying, "Hey! Feed me REAL food now!"?
 
2013-04-11 11:32:42 AM
My son was not breast fed. He graduated valedictorian of his class.
 
2013-04-11 11:33:30 AM
I want nothing to do with children, but since I had a breast reduction (best decision I ever made) and various lumps taken out of my breasts, I no longer have the plumbing to make breastmilk (which is awesome in my book, but that's me).  If someone makes snide comments to you, I would just say, very loudly, "Since I had to have a double mastectomy to beat my breast cancer, I cannot physically breastfeed.  Do you make a career out of harassing cancer survivors?"  So what if it's a lie?  Just knock them down a few pegs.  What you feed your kid is your business and nobody else's.
 
2013-04-11 11:33:38 AM
Not sure when this fuss started over formula verses breast milk, but I suspect it had something to do with the Yuppies in the 80s.

I recall when formula was the best thing since peanut butter. All through the 50's and 60's, Mom's formula fed their babies, after giving them that first bit of breast milk which contains that massive dose of natural stuff to kick start their immune systems.

I recall pans on the stove warming bottles at all hours of the day and night for infants and Mom's at stores giving screaming little monsters bottles to shut them up. I recall the big discussions of bottles and nipples and later, bottles with plastic liners that could be used, removed and tossed out.

Physicians extolled the virtues of formula.

Of course, the majority of the formula of the time was made in the USA. Nothing came in from China. We didn't know the Chinese manufacturers would basically dump in anything laying around as cost cutting fillers and then lie about it.
My siblings were all formula raised. So was I. They all have college degrees, families, good jobs and two have kids. One was born a premi, but he's today a weight lifting black belt. (I suspect the formula had no adverse affect on him.) One retired from a police force -- as Captain and NEVER had to fire his weapon in the line of duty. My sister is ultra smart, married a physician, worked for the local mayor and now works to get grants to help AIDS victims.

I worked in the medical and psychiatric fields. I'm not overweight. All of us kids were Scouts. All of us were physically active as kids. None of us have a criminal record.

So, I figure the formula was just fine.

I started hearing about breast feeding Nazis years ago and figured they were full of shiat. Somewhere about the time Yuppies introduced the $5.00 cup of coffee and started pushing BMWs.
 
2013-04-11 11:34:54 AM

Cybernetic: what_now: When I was in a Wal Mart in Central Florida (let that sink in for a while) a woman with three filthy children started talking to me. My friend, who was one of those "Awww...babies" types, asked how old the littlest one was. Answer. 8 months. I asked what was in the bottle. Answer: root beer.

So you know. Worse thinks that formula

Just out of curiosity, do you remember where the Walmart was?

/Central Floridian.


It could be every Walmart simultaneously.
 
2013-04-11 11:35:15 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: I'd just like to take this moment to give a special "fark you" to the old crone who came up to me while I was with my daughter in a café and hissed, "I hope that's breast milk in that bottle."


Nothing like having a baby in hand to make strangers feel entitled to biatch at you for any and every choice.

My sister was breastfeeding in the lounge in the women's restroom in Nordstrom's and someone chewed her out for not doing that in private.  As if being in a women's restroom isn't enough, you need to lock yourself in a stall lest you give a nasty old lady any excuse to snipe.

Nasty people don't need a real reason, they just look for the soft targets.
 
2013-04-11 11:35:35 AM

doglover: God Is My Co-Pirate: I'd just like to take this moment to give a special "fark you" to the old crone who came up to me while I was with my daughter in a café and hissed, "I hope that's breast milk in that bottle."

Why didn't you just tell her to her wrinkly old face?

I don't get chicks, man. I just don't....


Women tend to be the most judgey busybodies ever, I'm a chick so I know.

/I feel so much more comfortable around men
 
2013-04-11 11:35:58 AM
I would like to be attacked and accosted by the breastapo.  I would like my rights violated and my civil liberties infringed upon by the breastapo.
 
2013-04-11 11:37:10 AM

dv-ous: ... I suspect if more people were stoners, the world would be a better place. Keep on keepin' on.


QFT.
 
2013-04-11 11:37:46 AM

mama2tnt: but when the teeth come in, isn't that nature's way of saying, "Hey! Feed me REAL food now!"?


You'd think, but hormones don't think.
 
2013-04-11 11:38:09 AM
AgentBang:
...
The lactation consultant we saw said that we needed
...


What a coincidence!  I'm going back to school for Lactation Consulting - I think I have a real passion for it.
 
2013-04-11 11:38:50 AM

H31N0US: Nothing wrong with a little formula. Contrary to popular belief, a newborn baby does not always latch and eat. My brother and I were bottle fed. I have asthma, he does not.

My daughter was breast fed about 75-80%. Knock wood but she's had the sniffles about twice in 2.5 years.

Of course that will change next winter when she is in school.


How much of that 2.5 years was she in some sort of day care?
 
2013-04-11 11:38:57 AM

theorellior: mama2tnt: but when the teeth come in, isn't that nature's way of saying, "Hey! Feed me REAL food now!"?

You'd think, but hormones don't think.


I just shot milk out my nose
 
2013-04-11 11:40:54 AM
Twins? No wonder she uses the bottle. Her poor nipples must be so, so sore. She should be glad they don't have a full set of teeth yet.
 
2013-04-11 11:41:17 AM

MyKingdomForYourHorse: I just shot milk out my nose


I hope that was breast milk and not formula, bub.
 
2013-04-11 11:45:17 AM
I expected more MILF pics in this thread
 
2013-04-11 11:45:26 AM
Breastapo?

"Show zem ve have vays of making zem talk." "Heil Titler!"

/jawohl, mein boobenführer
 
2013-04-11 11:46:18 AM
my daughter is a little over nine months old.  when we had her - i had pushed my wife to breast feed.  my wife was against it at first - more of a modesty/"don't think i can do that" kind of thing but she agreed to try.  the kid latched on fine and no problems with that, but unfortunately my wife's milk just never came in.  my daughter would breast feed, but would still be hungry after she was done and she kept losing weight.  after we talked to a lactation nurse, we decided to just move to formula.  my wife was devastated thinking that she failed as a mother, but we found out that sometimes these things just happen.

while i agree that breast milk is better, i'm waiting for a "breast milk nazi" to say something to us about bottle feeding my daughter.  rather bottle feed the kid than have her starve.
 
2013-04-11 11:47:32 AM

fireclown: [cdn.fearnet.com image 288x433]
Did someone order a Breastapo?


Finally!
 
2013-04-11 11:48:39 AM

bdub77: I would just beat those La Leche League Milk Mafia types to death with my formula bottle.


Those biatches are evil.
 
2013-04-11 11:50:42 AM

Rev.K: Altair: Could someone explain this nonsense to a 30 yr old stoner with no kids?  Please don't make me Google breast feeding news.

There are people who advocate breastfeeding at any cost, despite the numerous problems that can occur with breastfeeding like not producing enough milk to feed your baby, problems with latching, etc.

Add to that the stress and sleep deprivation of a newborn and bottle feeding is simply what some parents have to do to get by.

The "Breastapo" as it were, looks down on and vilifies these people as bad parents or lazy or both.

/2 kids


I have a question as a non-parent, is there a way for Dad to pick up the baby and attach baby to boob while Mom naps/half-sleeps?

My hubby and joke about it because he's a light sleeper and I'm not. When we have kids we plan to keep the crib right next to us so we don't have to get out of bed at night.

/Genuinely curious.
 
2013-04-11 11:51:08 AM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Breastapo?

"Show zem ve have vays of making zem talk." "Heil Titler!"

/jawohl, mein boobenführer


Apologies in advance, but I'm stealing "Heil Titler" for the next breastfeeding story I stumble across.
 
2013-04-11 11:52:13 AM

mama2tnt: theorellior:  but when the teeth come in, isn't that nature's way of saying, "Hey! Feed me REAL food now!"?


Yes, which is why most people start solid foods in addition to breastmilk/formula around then. But babies aren't capable of getting enough calories just through solid foods until later. And the consistency of breastmilk doesn't stay the same over time... it becomes more watery as the baby gets older. Babies need water in addition to nutrients, but giving them just water before they're a year risks water intoxication. It's not like people who use formula stop at six months when the baby gets teeth either.

Most kids bite once after they get teeth, get startled by the reaction and then don't do it again. My kiddo did that around six months like normal. Then around 15 months she wanted to wean so she started biting AND trying to grab for a milk bottle so I knew it was time. Fine by me.
 
2013-04-11 11:52:45 AM

Skirl Hutsenreiter: God Is My Co-Pirate: I'd just like to take this moment to give a special "fark you" to the old crone who came up to me while I was with my daughter in a café and hissed, "I hope that's breast milk in that bottle."

Nothing like having a baby in hand to make strangers feel entitled to biatch at you for any and every choice.

My sister was breastfeeding in the lounge in the women's restroom in Nordstrom's and someone chewed her out for not doing that in private.  As if being in a women's restroom isn't enough, you need to lock yourself in a stall lest you give a nasty old lady any excuse to snipe.

Nasty people don't need a real reason, they just look for the soft targets.



QFT on this, too.
 
2013-04-11 11:54:22 AM
Breastapo? Is this Godwinned before the Boobies?
 
2013-04-11 11:54:58 AM

mesmer242: mama2tnt: theorellior:  but when the teeth come in, isn't that nature's way of saying, "Hey! Feed me REAL food now!"?

Yes, which is why most people start solid foods in addition to breastmilk/formula around then. But babies aren't capable of getting enough calories just through solid foods until later. And the consistency of breastmilk doesn't stay the same over time... it becomes more watery as the baby gets older. Babies need water in addition to nutrients, but giving them just water before they're a year risks water intoxication. It's not like people who use formula stop at six months when the baby gets teeth either.

Most kids bite once after they get teeth, get startled by the reaction and then don't do it again. My kiddo did that around six months like normal. Then around 15 months she wanted to wean so she started biting AND trying to grab for a milk bottle so I knew it was time. Fine by me.


After my babbys got teeth, I just started throwing raw meat between the bars of their cage. That seemed to work.
 
2013-04-11 11:55:48 AM

shortymac: I have a question as a non-parent, is there a way for Dad to pick up the baby and attach baby to boob while Mom naps/half-sleeps?


You can do that, but dad is going to have to get things going first. It's kind of like trying to get gas out of a tank.
 
2013-04-11 11:55:50 AM
Breastapo My new band name.
 
2013-04-11 11:56:44 AM

Rik01: Of course, the majority of the formula of the time was made in the USA. Nothing came in from China. We didn't know the Chinese manufacturers would basically dump in anything laying around as cost cutting fillers and then lie about it.


You didn't know the Americans did, either.  Formula is "fine" and certainly won't kill the kid; it's food.  But if the kid grows up healthy -- and mind you, plenty of kids did -- that's more credit to evolution than anything in the formula.  I'm sure mothers in the past tried to feed their kids in other ways if they couldn't make milk, so there was some pressure there for infants to adapt.  I don't know if infants are specifically tolerant or intolerant of foods other than milk, but the same organs humans use to digest solid foods are there from the start, so it's mostly just a nutritional balance issue.

The main scandal with formula is that it was a thoroughly corrupt and compromised clusterfark from the start.  The stuff may have been benign, but physicians abandoned all reason and sold an entire generation on what was a very expensive and inferior alternative to, well, free baby food.  Furthermore, while you're OK if you buy decent stuff and check the ingredients, some formulas are basically white Pepsi with some vitamins added.  That shiat's addictive enough that it can cause the baby to refuse breast milk if supplemented, and the formula companies had no incentive to discourage that.  These companies really didn't have the kid's best interest in mind.  So some of this is probably out of spite -- people feel the formula makers can't be trusted.  Well, they shouldn't ever be, but the real solution that isn't some single-minded abandonment of formula -- as others have stated, some mothers can't make enough milk or any milk at all -- but simple vigilance.  I'm not defending the "Breastapo" per se, but as a result there's immense market pressure on formula manufacturers to match the quality of breast milk as closely as possible, and that's not a bad thing for the people buying formula.
 
2013-04-11 11:57:23 AM
There's really one time when breast milk is HUGELY better than good formula, and that's the kid's first feeding when the colostrom is in. Once your kid gets that, yes, you will still provide some extra benefits by breastfeeding, but formula with DHA and ARA in it is going to get the job done as well.
 
2013-04-11 12:00:17 PM
Those people really do need a good punch in the face once in a while. If only they could expend so much effort on something that really mattered.
 
2013-04-11 12:00:22 PM

Rude Turnip: Cybernetic: what_now: When I was in a Wal Mart in Central Florida (let that sink in for a while) a woman with three filthy children started talking to me. My friend, who was one of those "Awww...babies" types, asked how old the littlest one was. Answer. 8 months. I asked what was in the bottle. Answer: root beer.

So you know. Worse thinks that formula

Just out of curiosity, do you remember where the Walmart was?

/Central Floridian.

It could be every Walmart simultaneously.


You'd be surprised. Central Florida has some very distinct stratification in the customers that you find at the various Walmarts.

The ones in the "attractions area" (i.e. Disney) are stuffed full of British tourists. The one on SR 50 by UCF is crammed with college students even at 3:00 AM. The one in Doctor Phillips has a slightly more upscale residential clientele along with timeshare owners. In Lake County there's a mix of rural farmer and suburban commuter; Brevard County (out towards Kennedy Space Center) has lots of toothless rednecks and tweakers.

/Yes, I've lived (and worked) in a bunch of places
//And been in a bunch of Walmarts
 
2013-04-11 12:00:43 PM

mama2tnt: mesmer242: mama2tnt: theorellior:  but when the teeth come in, isn't that nature's way of saying, "Hey! Feed me REAL food now!"?

Yes, which is why most people start solid foods in addition to breastmilk/formula around then. But babies aren't capable of getting enough calories just through solid foods until later. And the consistency of breastmilk doesn't stay the same over time... it becomes more watery as the baby gets older. Babies need water in addition to nutrients, but giving them just water before they're a year risks water intoxication. It's not like people who use formula stop at six months when the baby gets teeth either.

Most kids bite once after they get teeth, get startled by the reaction and then don't do it again. My kiddo did that around six months like normal. Then around 15 months she wanted to wean so she started biting AND trying to grab for a milk bottle so I knew it was time. Fine by me.

After my babbys got teeth, I just started throwing raw meat between the bars of their cage. That seemed to work.


Your kids are extra talented! Mine just thought foods were face paint and hair gel.
 
2013-04-11 12:02:50 PM
My twins were born @ 27 weeks. I nearly died from the same complication that led to their early birth. There was no way I can make enough for two when I had beeen so ill. The babies had to go to a level IV NICU immediately. The hospital where I gave birth is super friendly to breastfeeding, even brought me a breastpump at the bedside and had a lactation consultant show me what to do right away. The hospital's lactation consultants and lactation nurses gave me plenty of advice on increasing my supply, but they all said that given my complication, all I can do is...all I can do. The NICU actually adds formula powder to the breastmilk before giving it to the babies because preemies need more than just the milk - they need the minerals and proteins that they would have been taking from the placenta if they were still gestating, and while nutritious, breastmilk doesn't provide enough of those. The babies are now on a combination of breastmilk and formula milk. The NICU even gave me a metric bucketload of formula to take home. The important thing is to feed the babies, not for mommy to feel superior.
 
2013-04-11 12:03:21 PM
Came for the snark about misusing "supplementing" in the headline.
Stayed for the CSB and pix.

/makes it all worthwhile
//despite the disappointment.
///and a bookmark
 
2013-04-11 12:03:23 PM
The nurse at the hospital treat like a second class citizen for asking for formula.

By the time my wife had our second we just told them to GTFO and GBTW.
 
2013-04-11 12:03:27 PM
Could've written TFA myself.  My twins came 5 weeks early.  The hospital had NO breast pumps and it took 4 days for the hospital lactation consultant to even get to see me.  Still had problems when I got home and the lactation consultant who came berated me for using a burp rag.  Even the last consultant (who was wonderful) couldn't help when the twins got reflux at 6 weeks and just SCREAMED like a Nazgul on repeat when I fed them.  40 minutes of sleep at time for a week and postpartum depression on top of this means one giant clusterfark.

The day I stopped BFing, switched to sensitive stomach formula and gave them their prescription reflux meds is the day my kids started getting happier and healthier.

And yes, the author of the TFA is a hero.  I've been in her situation and it was one of the worst in my life.  Using mainstream media to tell bullies to back the fark off when your own brain is telling you're a horrible mother involves one metric arseload of heroism.

Baby feeding is not a battleground; what matters is that the baby gets fed. Breast feeding bullies need to STFU.

/steps off soapbox
 
2013-04-11 12:03:59 PM

shortymac: I have a question as a non-parent, is there a way for Dad to pick up the baby and attach baby to boob while Mom naps/half-sleeps?

My hubby and joke about it because he's a light sleeper and I'm not. When we have kids we plan to keep the crib right next to us so we don't have to get out of bed at night.


At night I invariably did the nappy changes, then plugged the kid into the mothership to refuel. Well, didn't exactly plug him in - I put him in the right position and she did the final adjustments. She barely had to wake up, though and they would both fall asleep during the feed.

Of course your kid or your partner's geometry may be different.
 
2013-04-11 12:04:14 PM
Having dealt with the Breastapo via our local branch of the La Leche League, I completely sympathize with this woman. I was made to feel as though I was a bad mother because I was unable to breastfeed due to an inherited condition that caused me, my sister, mother, materal grandmother, etc. to completely stop producing breast milk.

Was I supposed to allow my baby to be hungry and lose weight? I had hoped that the condition would skip me, but it didn't. . I was already crying my eyes out that I couldn't breastfeed & those harpies from the LLL made me feel as though I were the worst mother in the world.
 
2013-04-11 12:08:27 PM
Those are the same types of people who honestly believe that there are two different growth charts for babies depending on whether or not they are breastfed, and that doctors honestly want to hide the breastfed chart from mothers.

/unfortunately, I am related to one of them
//and I feel really, really bad for her poor kids
 
2013-04-11 12:08:31 PM
After the birth,

YOU HAD ONE JOB
 
2013-04-11 12:08:42 PM

dragonchild: Rik01: Of course, the majority of the formula of the time was made in the USA. Nothing came in from China. We didn't know the Chinese manufacturers would basically dump in anything laying around as cost cutting fillers and then lie about it.

You didn't know the Americans did, either.  Formula is "fine" and certainly won't kill the kid; it's food.  But if the kid grows up healthy -- and mind you, plenty of kids did -- that's more credit to evolution than anything in the formula.  I'm sure mothers in the past tried to feed their kids in other ways if they couldn't make milk, so there was some pressure there for infants to adapt.  I don't know if infants are specifically tolerant or intolerant of foods other than milk, but the same organs humans use to digest solid foods are there from the start, so it's mostly just a nutritional balance issue.

The main scandal with formula is that it was a thoroughly corrupt and compromised clusterfark from the start.  The stuff may have been benign, but physicians abandoned all reason and sold an entire generation on what was a very expensive and inferior alternative to, well, free baby food.  Furthermore, while you're OK if you buy decent stuff and check the ingredients, some formulas are basically white Pepsi with some vitamins added.  That shiat's addictive enough that it can cause the baby to refuse breast milk if supplemented, and the formula companies had no incentive to discourage that.  These companies really didn't have the kid's best interest in mind.  So some of this is probably out of spite -- people feel the formula makers can't be trusted.  Well, they shouldn't ever be, but the real solution that isn't some single-minded abandonment of formula -- as others have stated, some mothers can't make enough milk or any milk at all -- but simple vigilance.  I'm not defending the "Breastapo" per se, but as a result there's immense market pressure on formula manufacturers to match the quality of breast milk as closely as possibl ...


You know, it makes me wonder why wet-nurses haven't come back in style yet amongst the Yuppie types or buying frozen breast milk from friends.

Hmmmmmm.

/Off to start a business
 
2013-04-11 12:12:11 PM

Bathia_Mapes: I was already crying my eyes out that I couldn't breastfeed & those harpies from the LLL made me feel as though I were the worst mother in the world.


:( I'll punch them in the throat for you....
 
2013-04-11 12:14:47 PM

orbister: It beats me why anyone who could breast feed would chose formula. Breast is free and there's no faffing about with sterilisation, carrying stuff around, getting supplies and so on. That said, there are lots of perfectly good reasons for not being able to breast feed, and in those cases you're hardly going to let the kid starve to death.


Because maybe some people who can breastfeed just plain don't want to.  It literally has zero effect on you either way.
 
2013-04-11 12:14:48 PM

sxacho: bdub77: I would just beat those La Leche League Milk Mafia types to death with my formula bottle.

Those biatches are evil.


The Lactation Mafia?  Yup.  For some reason no one has pointed out to them that it probably isn't the best idea to lay guilt trips on new mothers when their hormones are all over the place.  I wonder how much of their propaganda added some some new mom's post-partum depression?

Sure breast milk is great and free.  If you have trouble breastfeeding, pumping may work.  If not, formula was invented for that very reason.

/LLL motto must be: "I had a kid, therefore I am an expert on all child rearing!"
//Sis-in-law works as an ER pediatrician and pretty much ignores the myth of nipple confusion - if the kid is hungry, they figure it out really quick.
 
2013-04-11 12:16:47 PM
I've never encountered so many people coming up being all self-righteous about something. It doesn't matter where my wife is in public, someone has to come up and make sure she's breastfeeding. So far the best initial phrase we can come up with is she's "medically incapable of breastfeeding". Even then most scoff at such a statement, remain all opinionated, talk down, accuse her of giving up, and some even claim that it's possible for the milk to come back after months of it being dried up. Then my wife has to explain she had the worse case of gallstones and pancreatitus one can get, spent two weeks in the hospital, explain the excruciating pain that the strongest medicine was only able to curb the edge, and how her body stopped producing milk due to the stress after a valiant effort. Some of these tools finally get a clue and turn all sympathetic. Others must inquire further and verify she's did everything she could because BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, stuff we already know from the breastfeeding classes before the birth. Some of these biatches haven't even had kids and others don't understand completely the level of pain even after she tells them it was worse than childbirth.

A simple minding our own business out in public is interrupted into the Spanish Inquisition. My wife is getting to the point where she may start snapping at people that start this BS or in the least telling them it's none of their business. The kid is perfectly healthy on formula and weighs appropriately for her height according to the pediatrician. The doc is also impressed with how fast she is developing and I attribute that to our better parenting over the IBTC's derps or hellions.

Keep your self-righteous opinions to yourself. This is the South where everyone talks behind everyone else's backs and would never say such things directly; why don't we continue this tradition as it's less stressful for us. If that doesn't work for you, don't be offended when you're told to STFU. Perhaps we just need to start with "I'm sorry, but we're tired of the constant Spanish Inquisition on whether the little one is breastfed. We know breast milk is better than formula. It's none of your business so please leave us alone".
 
2013-04-11 12:17:23 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Those are the same types of people who honestly believe that there are two different growth charts for babies depending on whether or not they are breastfed, and that doctors honestly want to hide the breastfed chart from mothers.


There are two different growth charts for babies, depending on whether or not they are breastfed. Breastfed babies don't gain as quickly as first, but catch up pretty quickly. When you have a kid in the UK, the NHS gives you a folder of record sheets and charts, including a weight chart. A few years ago they changed to the breast-fed chart as standard, because they thought too many mothers were giving up as a result of thinking that things were going wrong because their babies looked underweight on the chart.

I've just looked at the kid's, which was pre change, and he does indeed dip well down the percentiles for a few weeks before head up again.
 
2013-04-11 12:17:27 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: I'd just like to take this moment to give a special "fark you" to the old crone who came up to me while I was with my daughter in a café and hissed, "I hope that's breast milk in that bottle."


The proper retort is, "I hope that's organic sand in your vagina."
 
2013-04-11 12:17:32 PM

CapeFearCadaver: Bathia_Mapes: I was already crying my eyes out that I couldn't breastfeed & those harpies from the LLL made me feel as though I were the worst mother in the world.

:( I'll punch them in the throat for you....


And I will hold them while CapeFearCadaver throat punches them.

LLL never even called me back.  At the time I was pissed.  Now I am glad.
 
2013-04-11 12:19:21 PM

mesmer242: Rev.K: Altair: Could someone explain this nonsense to a 30 yr old stoner with no kids?  Please don't make me Google breast feeding news.

There are people who advocate breastfeeding at any cost, despite the numerous problems that can occur with breastfeeding like not producing enough milk to feed your baby, problems with latching, etc.

Add to that the stress and sleep deprivation of a newborn and bottle feeding is simply what some parents have to do to get by.

The "Breastapo" as it were, looks down on and vilifies these people as bad parents or lazy or both.

/2 kids

For what it's worth, I saw two different lactation consultants after my first was born and neither was anti-formula in my situation (I was eventually able to breastfeed anyway but formula was needed in the interim). It's not usually the experts who are the breastapo - it's ignorant people with no sense of compassion for others.

What was the article talking about with the whole shortage thing? Is this something that's going to start happening in the US?


Kiddo #3 just turned 7 weeks old.  She has had way more breastmilk than the first two.  For whatever reason, my wife just didn't produce enough with kid #1.  Looking back, she should have visited the breast feeding clinic (there is actually a breast feeding clinic at our local hospital) more often.  It has done wonders for baby #3.  However, with #1, our pediatrician finally told us that we needed to supplement with formula.  His biggest problem was that he never ate enough to stimulate more production.  Even when he was on formula, it seemed like he was never able to eat more than 2 ounces at a time (and he was and is a big kid for his age).  Eventually, he was on all formula until he started on solids.  He is a great kid that is well adjusted for the most part and is very healthy.  It would have been nicer for him to breastfeed more just because of the cost and the other benefits, but it didn't happen.

#2 wasn't as bad, but my wife still had problems.  At some point when you have a screaming baby, a crying wife, and a 2 year old sleeping another room that is going to be up at the crack of dawn, you have to choose sanity.     Sometimes, formula is that sanity.  Even if it is one bottle a day.

Like I said, #3 has been much better with breast feeding.  The only problem is that some days, she is attached to my wife every couple of hours.  I do give her a bottle a couple of times a week before bed, but it doesn't happen all that often.  I will say on a positive note that we bought a case of liquid formula from Sam's Club when she was a couple of weeks old and we haven't used it all yet.

All that said, the lactation nurse at the clinic has never made my wife feel bad for supplementing.  In fact, she has said several times that "you gotta do what you gotta do".  It is the activist types from La Leche League that make you feel bad about formula.  By all means, if you can breast feed, please do it.  If it affects your family life and your wife is going insane from cluster feeding or whatever, just supplement from time to time.
 
2013-04-11 12:19:47 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Because maybe some people who can breastfeed just plain don't want to.


Indeed, and while I'm not convinced about "zero effects" (that's a testable claim) it doesn't seem to make any long term health difference. Having seen the bother that bottle feeders have to go to, I'm surprised that anyone would do it unnecessarily, but that's their choice and not my business.
 
2013-04-11 12:20:37 PM

doubled99: After the birth,

YOU HAD ONE JOB


And yet it's none of your business HOW she chooses to get it done.
 
2013-04-11 12:21:10 PM

MyKingdomForYourHorse: I almost throat punched the woman who came up when our son was born and threw down the guilt gauntlet to my wife for using formula.

Yes lady, my wife takes medication for her mental health and without that medication she might pose a danger to herself and others but because proven science on formula must be bunk she should threaten the health of herself and baby just to give my son breast milk.

Douche


I don't know what science you're thinking of, the consensus seems to be that under ideal circumstances formula is not as good, but good enough. However under non-ideal circumstances it can be quite fatal. Nestle got in quite a bit of trouble due to infant deaths in the third world. Turns out if you make formula with tainted water it kills kids, a problem breast milk doesn't have. Also there have been nonzero deaths associated with formula that contained harmful bacteria that was introduced during manufacture. It is still the mother's choice, but don't try to say there are no problems with formula.  Not attacking you, it sucks that your wife was unable to breastfeed.
 
2013-04-11 12:21:46 PM

orbister: shortymac: I have a question as a non-parent, is there a way for Dad to pick up the baby and attach baby to boob while Mom naps/half-sleeps?

My hubby and joke about it because he's a light sleeper and I'm not. When we have kids we plan to keep the crib right next to us so we don't have to get out of bed at night.

At night I invariably did the nappy changes, then plugged the kid into the mothership to refuel. Well, didn't exactly plug him in - I put him in the right position and she did the final adjustments. She barely had to wake up, though and they would both fall asleep during the feed.

Of course your kid or your partner's geometry may be different.


I figured as much, I wonder why more people don't do that.
 
2013-04-11 12:21:50 PM

orbister: The My Little Pony Killer: Those are the same types of people who honestly believe that there are two different growth charts for babies depending on whether or not they are breastfed, and that doctors honestly want to hide the breastfed chart from mothers.

There are two different growth charts for babies, depending on whether or not they are breastfed. Breastfed babies don't gain as quickly as first, but catch up pretty quickly. When you have a kid in the UK, the NHS gives you a folder of record sheets and charts, including a weight chart. A few years ago they changed to the breast-fed chart as standard, because they thought too many mothers were giving up as a result of thinking that things were going wrong because their babies looked underweight on the chart.

I've just looked at the kid's, which was pre change, and he does indeed dip well down the percentiles for a few weeks before head up again.


Okay, but doctors actually withholding this second chart from new mothers?  Seriously?  THAT'S the part that makes me think my cousin's head isn't quite screwed on correctly.
 
2013-04-11 12:23:50 PM

Jormungandr: MyKingdomForYourHorse: I almost throat punched the woman who came up when our son was born and threw down the guilt gauntlet to my wife for using formula.

Yes lady, my wife takes medication for her mental health and without that medication she might pose a danger to herself and others but because proven science on formula must be bunk she should threaten the health of herself and baby just to give my son breast milk.

Douche

I don't know what science you're thinking of, the consensus seems to be that under ideal circumstances formula is not as good, but good enough. However under non-ideal circumstances it can be quite fatal. Nestle got in quite a bit of trouble due to infant deaths in the third world. Turns out if you make formula with tainted water it kills kids, a problem breast milk doesn't have. Also there have been nonzero deaths associated with formula that contained harmful bacteria that was introduced during manufacture. It is still the mother's choice, but don't try to say there are no problems with formula.  Not attacking you, it sucks that your wife was unable to breastfeed.


And just the same (as well as what MKFYH was trying to say) breastfeeding is not 100% without risk.  

Why does it then become anybody's business whether a woman chooses one risk over another?
 
2013-04-11 12:25:55 PM

Soymilk: ...The important thing is to feed the babies, not for mommy to feel superior.


This.

ladyhawk: ...Baby feeding is not a battleground; what matters is that the baby gets fed. Breast feeding bullies need to STFU.

And this.

doubled99: After the birth,

YOU HAD ONE JOB



Thanks for the needed laugh!

PirateFuzzball:  ...Perhaps we just need to start with "I'm sorry, but we're tired of the constant Spanish Inquisition on whether the little one is breastfed. We know breast milk is better than formula. It's none of your business so please leave us alone".

You absolutely do.
 
2013-04-11 12:26:59 PM
After the birth,

YOU HAD ONE JOB

And yet it's none of your business HOW she chooses to get it done.


Yeah, like we never express our opinions on other people's parenting here. uh-huh.
 
2013-04-11 12:30:00 PM
We have 15 month-old twins, and by some miracle my wife breastfed for 11 months.  From day one we had to supplement because producing for two ain't easy, and led to a couple bouts of mastitis and several issues with clogged ducts (hooray for soy lecithin).  But the worst were the blisters - watching one of the babies burp up blood because the blister popped while she was nursing was one of the most horrifying things I've ever witnessed.
 
2013-04-11 12:30:46 PM

doubled99: After the birth,

YOU HAD ONE JOB


And that one job is to feed the baby.
 
2013-04-11 12:30:50 PM
 
2013-04-11 12:31:55 PM

CapeFearCadaver: Bathia_Mapes: I was already crying my eyes out that I couldn't breastfeed & those harpies from the LLL made me feel as though I were the worst mother in the world.

:( I'll punch them in the throat for you....


Thank you. This happened many years ago (my son is 32), but what they did to me, and likely many other new mothers who were unable to breastfeed for whatever reason, still makes me angry.
 
2013-04-11 12:32:04 PM

what_now: When I was in a Wal Mart in Central Florida (let that sink in for a while) a woman with three filthy children started talking to me. My friend, who was one of those "Awww...babies" types, asked how old the littlest one was. Answer. 8 months. I asked what was in the bottle. Answer: root beer.

So you know. Worse thinks that formula


Yep. All my babies ever got in their bottle was undiluted Sun Rype Apple Juice. Good 'ol juice. Nothing wrong with giving that to your kids!
 
2013-04-11 12:36:09 PM
Soymilk

After the birth,

YOU HAD ONE JOB


And that one job is to feed the baby.


That's the joke.

Figures with your handle
 
2013-04-11 12:40:06 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Jormungandr: MyKingdomForYourHorse: I almost throat punched the woman who came up when our son was born and threw down the guilt gauntlet to my wife for using formula.

Yes lady, my wife takes medication for her mental health and without that medication she might pose a danger to herself and others but because proven science on formula must be bunk she should threaten the health of herself and baby just to give my son breast milk.

Douche

I don't know what science you're thinking of, the consensus seems to be that under ideal circumstances formula is not as good, but good enough. However under non-ideal circumstances it can be quite fatal. Nestle got in quite a bit of trouble due to infant deaths in the third world. Turns out if you make formula with tainted water it kills kids, a problem breast milk doesn't have. Also there have been nonzero deaths associated with formula that contained harmful bacteria that was introduced during manufacture. It is still the mother's choice, but don't try to say there are no problems with formula.  Not attacking you, it sucks that your wife was unable to breastfeed.

And just the same (as well as what MKFYH was trying to say) breastfeeding is not 100% without risk.  

Why does it then become anybody's business whether a woman chooses one risk over another?


There isn't just the risks involved. Breastmilk does contain antibodies that help babies keep healthy. Risks involved with breastfeeding are usually external to the milk itself, ie the drugs that pass into it. Where as it is completely possible for the formula to be badly formulated enough to cause brain damage. I don't personally care what a woman chooses, as they say Breast is Best, but not everyone has that option.  The part I took umbrage with was the "proven science" bit.
 
2013-04-11 12:42:03 PM

shortymac: I figured as much, I wonder why more people don't do that.


I took my wife a while to work out how to breastfeed lying down. I don't think that was simply inexperience; I think it had to do with the size of the kid and the strength in his neck. Once that was going well, though - at about 3 months, I think - it made night times much, much easier for her.

Why don't more people do it? Well, it depended on me not minding doing all night-time nappies, and us both being OK with co-sleeping, because if you have to return the kid to a cradle afterwards you may as well sit up and feed it quickly.
 
2013-04-11 12:42:52 PM
swfan:
My wife had no desire what-so-ever to breastfeed our daughter, so we opted for formula.  Guess what? She's turned out great (so far, but we're not to the teen years yet...that I'll blame entirely on formula when the time comes). She's ridiculously tall, smart as a whip and a kind, gentle soul.  But thanks to the giant douchebags both in real life and on the internet who militantly insist on breast feeding for all, my wife had to struggle with a couple of months of guilt over the whole thing (on top of mildpostpartum depression).  So thanks for that, breast feeding busybodies!  This isdefinitely one area where there needs to be a lot more STFU and mind your own business.

Because the plural of anecdote is data. Here's an actual datum. A company called Syntex made a formula called "Neo-Mull-Soy" that was deficient in chloride, they ended up settling with two families for 27 million due to the brain damage their kids suffered. They left the chloride out to save money. I am glad your daughter turned out great, but that is despite formula, not because of. My daughter is the same way and she was breast fed. Perhaps when she hits teenage years we can both lament, obviously the problem was that we fed them as kids... :)
 
2013-04-11 12:43:43 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Okay, but doctors actually withholding this second chart from new mothers?


Never heard of that. Over here it's midwives and then health visitors (district nurses) who do these things, and they never tried to hide the differences from us. As I recall, they'd ask you the kid was being fed before bringing out the right chart to check when they visited.
 
2013-04-11 12:43:50 PM

PirateFuzzball: Perhaps we just need to start with "I'm sorry, but we're tired of the constant Spanish Inquisition on whether the little one is breastfed. We know breast milk is better than formula. It's none of your business so please leave us alone".


When I went out with my wife after the second one was born and something like this would come up we'd settled on the quiet stare (since "STFU and get out of here!" is problematic once you have a kid).  We just stopped talking to each other and just stare at the person with a vaguely annoyed look, saying nothing and not answering any questions.  Just treat them like you saw a strange bug or something.  They'll scurry off soon enough.

Parenting advice about our oldest (3 year old boy) now gets met with "We've been looking for a babysitter for Friday night, obviously you're very knowledgeable, do you have a card or something?"  I swear you can almost see the cartoon dust cloud as they turn tail and run.  He's not a bad kid, but he's three, high energy, and a boy so he can be a bit hard to deal with at times.
 
2013-04-11 12:43:58 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: Also a WTF to the lactation consultant who told me off for supplementing with formula, saying very snottily, "You do realize that will make her sleep more, don't you?"


For our first child, my wife saw several consultants.  Our son wouldn't latch and when he did, he couldn't seem to get anything.  The consultant tells her to try to pump and after several attempts (over a couple of days) I couldn't take watching her writhe in pain while only producing a few drops.  We thanked the consultant for her time and told her we decided on formula.


For our second child, we knew that there was no chance of breast feeding.  As soon as the epidural wore off, I told everyone in the room to GTFO and I surprised my wife by pulling a bottle of champagne out of my overnight bag.  My wife (who dabbles in photography ) took the coolest picture of our champagne flutes being "clinked" together directly over our daughter who was lying on the bed and had just grabbed on to a finger of the hand holding the glass.


My wife was very calm about not being able to breast feed.  Problem is that it meant I no longer had a designated driver and my wife was VERY quick to remind me of every time she drove my inebriated ass home.  She also would point out that I am now HER taxi service.


That sucked.
 
2013-04-11 12:45:33 PM

Cortez the Killer: A guy I worked with was in the grocery line buying formula for his young-un. The lady behind him started going on about how breast milk is soooo much better for the baby. He turned around an looked her in the eye and said "My wife just died...thanks."

He said the color ran out of her face after that remark.

/No woman actually died in this story


Your friend is a genius.  I LOL'd...out loud.
 
2013-04-11 12:50:02 PM

meat0918: My wife has done that before, because one of these mothers told her she was a bad mother for allowing our kid to wean himself at 7 or so months. Allowing is not what happened. And we worried about it. We went with it though, and he's a great, precocious little kid.


Hey now, one kid weaned himself at just over a year, and the other we weaned at 18 months, thankyouverymuch.  The other moms tried to make me feel guilty for not nursing until they were 2, and I promptly told them to go shove it where the Pampers is.  When your kid can walk up to you and ask for the left boobie, it's time to stop.  It's okay, Little Snowflake will be just fine.

We started introducing solid food to both our kids at 4 months, which might be what you're thinking about, because they showed all the developmental signs of readiness for it and my boobs couldn't keep up with their voracious appetites.  Boy did the Momstapo get their panties all in a twist about that!
 
2013-04-11 12:57:14 PM
TL;NEB

(Too Long; Not Enough Boobies)
 
2013-04-11 12:58:20 PM
 
2013-04-11 01:00:06 PM

Aarontology: Because breast feeding laws are totally the same as the secret police who helped round up and exterminate six million Jews.


puh-lease...

/I hope you're trolling
//and there are no "laws"
///couldn't stop at two
 
2013-04-11 01:00:45 PM
Our little guy was solely breastfed for the first three months, and it was exhausting for my wife. He had such a voracious appetite that he was pretty much on her boobs 24/7. We started supplementing at 3 months, and by 6 months he was totally on formula. Basic foods started coming at 4 months. By 1 year he was off the bottle.

I know she felt guilty about not meeting his needs - I just had to remind her that he's just a huge eater. Nobody could have kept up.

/He's been in the 95th percentile for weight since about 1 month old.
 
2013-04-11 01:03:57 PM

CapeFearCadaver: Bathia_Mapes: I was already crying my eyes out that I couldn't breastfeed & those harpies from the LLL made me feel as though I were the worst mother in the world.

:( I'll punch them in the throat for you....


I'll hold their arms while you do.
 
2013-04-11 01:04:32 PM
With Kid #1, wife tried to breastfeed.  We knew that breastmilk is better, and no reason to spend money.

However my wife didn't make much milk and the kid was an extremely slow eater (hours),  not helping production.  We went to formula and didnt look back.  Kid #2, wife didnt bother to try breastfeeding and we went right to formula.  I didn't even bother to warm it up, I could of made it with cold tap water and the kid ate it.

On retrospect, we didn't bother to ask any consultant.  Just did it.  Kids turned out fine (9 and 6 now).

At no point did any busybody bother us.
 
2013-04-11 01:07:01 PM

HortusMatris: Boy did the Momstapo get their panties all in a twist about that!


Mothers in groups have a terrible tendency to behave the the nastiest, biatchiest teenagers you ever met. Possibly because the sort of mothers who join groups were the nasty, biatchy teenagers. If you're feeling strong, have a look at the "Am I Being Unreasonable" forum at www.mumsnet.com.

The easiest thing to do is just to ignore them. There are plenty of nice, sensible, entertaining parents around; the loonies are loud, but a minority.
 
2013-04-11 01:07:17 PM
farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2013-04-11 01:08:31 PM

Jormungandr: swfan:
My wife had no desire what-so-ever to breastfeed our daughter, so we opted for formula.  Guess what? She's turned out great (so far, but we're not to the teen years yet...that I'll blame entirely on formula when the time comes). She's ridiculously tall, smart as a whip and a kind, gentle soul.  But thanks to the giant douchebags both in real life and on the internet who militantly insist on breast feeding for all, my wife had to struggle with a couple of months of guilt over the whole thing (on top of mildpostpartum depression).  So thanks for that, breast feeding busybodies!  This isdefinitely one area where there needs to be a lot more STFU and mind your own business.

Because the plural of anecdote is data. Here's an actual datum. A company called Syntex made a formula called "Neo-Mull-Soy" that was deficient in chloride, they ended up settling with two families for 27 million due to the brain damage their kids suffered. They left the chloride out to save money. I am glad your daughter turned out great, but that is despite formula, not because of. My daughter is the same way and she was breast fed. Perhaps when she hits teenage years we can both lament, obviously the problem was that we fed them as kids... :)


You might want to trot out a data point more recent than 1979 if you're going to preach the dangers of formula if you have one.  Just saying, 2 cases 36 years ago, while individual tragedies, aren't a compelling argument for for the systemic dangers of feeding formula.  If that's the best you've got I'd bet more newborns have been killed in car accidents on the way home from the hospital in the last 36 years than were harmed by formula.

Feel free to continue feeling all virtuous and self righteous though...
 
2013-04-11 01:12:28 PM
Id like to add my opinion to the crowd in agreement.

I think breast feeding is IMPORTANT
but its none of your god damned business to decide this for someone else.

Pro-Choice

Anti-lazy biatches who do it to protect their nipple shape, but how dare someone impose that on someone else. I would never. STFU already.

Also a big fark you to people who stop people from breast feeding in public
 
2013-04-11 01:12:32 PM
I was so sick as a newborn, I threw up every time my mom breastfed me. So she'd feed me again, hoping I'd keep some nutrition in. Eventually she couldn't anymore and I was losing weight so I was on formula from week 5 maybe. I grew taller than most in my classes and I was reading by age four, so it didn't kill me or even harm me.

I'm pregnant with my first, and of course if I CAN breastfeed then I will, but I just won't know until she gets here. If for some reason breastfeeding doesn't work out, formula it is, and I won't feel guilty about taking care of my kid the way I was cared for. If anyone tries to give me crap about it, I'll dispatch Mr. Kiwi to give them an earful and a stern look. No one messes with a protective, muscled, 6'3 Italian guy.
 
2013-04-11 01:13:38 PM

HortusMatris: meat0918: My wife has done that before, because one of these mothers told her she was a bad mother for allowing our kid to wean himself at 7 or so months. Allowing is not what happened. And we worried about it. We went with it though, and he's a great, precocious little kid.

Hey now, one kid weaned himself at just over a year, and the other we weaned at 18 months, thankyouverymuch.  The other moms tried to make me feel guilty for not nursing until they were 2, and I promptly told them to go shove it where the Pampers is.  When your kid can walk up to you and ask for the left boobie, it's time to stop.  It's okay, Little Snowflake will be just fine.

We started introducing solid food to both our kids at 4 months, which might be what you're thinking about, because they showed all the developmental signs of readiness for it and my boobs couldn't keep up with their voracious appetites.  Boy did the Momstapo get their panties all in a twist about that!


My bad.  That's exactly what it was.

You still told her to fark off though which was awesome.
 
2013-04-11 01:16:20 PM

meat0918: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Breastapo?

"Show zem ve have vays of making zem talk." "Heil Titler!"

/jawohl, mein boobenführer

Apologies in advance, but I'm stealing "Heil Titler" for the next breastfeeding story I stumble across.


Hey, I'm just amazed nobody else got there first. It seemed so obvious.
 
2013-04-11 01:21:07 PM
My hope is that when I have Little Impatiens, I will breastfeed. My mom was 50-50. I was BF'ed until 9 months, even though she went back to work at 6 weeks while my brother was exclusively formula after my mom left the hospital AMA. My brother stayed, as he was still in need of care, but my mom's sister passed away unexpectedly the day after Lil Bro was born and my grandparents were out of town. Someone needed to take care of business and in my mom's family, its my mom that jumpstarts the "getting shiat done" for the family. The stress of the untimely passing of her sister, according to the doctor, caused her to lose her supply. I'm hoping, since she was successful under ideal circumstances, I will be too.

I have narcolepsy though, so I'm not sure how likely it will be for me to stay off medication and maintain a round-the-clock feeding schedule. I am currently off meds right now because I get enough sleep at night and can take a nap in the afternoon if necessary. I think its better for my hypothetical children to not be passengers in sleepy momma's car, so if formula becomes a necessity because the buggers can't let me sleep, I'll go on meds again and drive safely.

I hope my "fark you very much" vibe will serve me well in pregnancy and post partum. I am thoroughly unapproachable in the best of situations, so hopefully that will serve to keep the commentators at bay. I will need it, my own mother in law, a medical professional, is anti-breast feeding (calls it gross) and she plays the "I told you so" game when my sister in law (married to my husband's brother) had to stop BFing because of issues with the kids. Really, its for my MIL's own health that she'd keep her mouth shut about it, because if she opened it, she'd be closing it with fewer teeth.
 
2013-04-11 01:21:15 PM

ladyhawk: Could've written TFA myself.  My twins came 5 weeks early.  The hospital had NO breast pumps and it took 4 days for the hospital lactation consultant to even get to see me.  Still had problems when I got home and the lactation consultant who came berated me for using a burp rag.  Even the last consultant (who was wonderful) couldn't help...


What is supposedly wrong with using a burp rag?
 
2013-04-11 01:26:58 PM

kiwimoogle84: she


Yay! You found out it's a girl... SQUEE!
 
2013-04-11 01:27:37 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: My hope is that when I have Little Impatiens, I will breastfeed. My mom was 50-50. I was BF'ed until 9 months, even though she went back to work at 6 weeks while my brother was exclusively formula after my mom left the hospital AMA. My brother stayed, as he was still in need of care, but my mom's sister passed away unexpectedly the day after Lil Bro was born and my grandparents were out of town. Someone needed to take care of business and in my mom's family, its my mom that jumpstarts the "getting shiat done" for the family. The stress of the untimely passing of her sister, according to the doctor, caused her to lose her supply. I'm hoping, since she was successful under ideal circumstances, I will be too.

I have narcolepsy though, so I'm not sure how likely it will be for me to stay off medication and maintain a round-the-clock feeding schedule. I am currently off meds right now because I get enough sleep at night and can take a nap in the afternoon if necessary. I think its better for my hypothetical children to not be passengers in sleepy momma's car, so if formula becomes a necessity because the buggers can't let me sleep, I'll go on meds again and drive safely.

I hope my "fark you very much" vibe will serve me well in pregnancy and post partum. I am thoroughly unapproachable in the best of situations, so hopefully that will serve to keep the commentators at bay. I will need it, my own mother in law, a medical professional, is anti-breast feeding (calls it gross) and she plays the "I told you so" game when my sister in law (married to my husband's brother) had to stop BFing because of issues with the kids. Really, its for my MIL's own health that she'd keep her mouth shut about it, because if she opened it, she'd be closing it with fewer teeth.


I just keep coming across you with stories about your MIL. It's kind of amusing. Sorry to hear about your narcolepsy, that can be a really severe problem. But should you get to mini-impatients, I'm sure you'll be fine. You've got fire in ya. I certainly wouldn't mess with you regarding how you raise/feed your kid.

Though why would I? Some people need to just get hit with a LART and go rethink their lives. If you want to raise your kids vegan with no vaccines in a tree, that's fine for you. Go enjoy your tree. But don't tell me I'm wrong.
 
2013-04-11 01:27:38 PM

Cortez the Killer: A guy I worked was in the grocery line buying formula for his young-un. The lady behind him started going on about how breast milk is soooo much better for the baby. He turned around an looked her in the eye and said "My wife just died...thanks."

He said the color ran out of her face after that remark.

/No woman actually died in this story


That's one of the best things I've heard of. Thank you for sharing that.
 
2013-04-11 01:28:36 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I have narcolepsy though, so I'm not sure how likely it will be for me to stay off medication and maintain a round-the-clock feeding schedule.


If it helps, you don't need to have a schedule. Feeding on demand works fine, having been developed some millions years before clocks. Of course it may be a problem if the kid demands when you're out of it.

In general, I reckon there's practically nothing which can be done with reasonable intelligence and generally benevolent intentions that will cause a kid harm. They were designed to be brought up in the backs of caves by monkeys, for goodness' sake, and though the attrition rate was high then, we have vaccination, antibiotics (for the moment) and sanitation systems to deal with 99% of the problems.

It'll be fine.
 
2013-04-11 01:30:59 PM

PastaFazoole: ladyhawk: Could've written TFA myself.  My twins came 5 weeks early.  The hospital had NO breast pumps and it took 4 days for the hospital lactation consultant to even get to see me.  Still had problems when I got home and the lactation consultant who came berated me for using a burp rag.  Even the last consultant (who was wonderful) couldn't help...

What is supposedly wrong with using a burp rag?


More importantly, did you gag her with the rag? I would have. I think the answer to these and many other problems is harsh words and swift reactions. I think its become acceptable to send a pregnant or postpartum woman into a crying jag because hormones, so maybe, just maybe, we need to be more firm and less weepy with our reactions. If they think its OK to dissolve a pregnant woman into teary guilt, maybe they need to be gagged with burp rags.
 
2013-04-11 01:34:09 PM

CapeFearCadaver: kiwimoogle84: she

Yay! You found out it's a girl... SQUEE!


Yup, got a name picked out and everything. Granted, my Mario themed nursery will be getting some princess peach and pink yoshi's added to it, but it still works I think.

Oh and regarding the "my wife just died" story, that's hilarious. I think if it obv wasn't true I'd have a hard time keeping a straight face watching their reaction, but still. Bravo. That'll teach her to shut her mouth.

CSS- I was actually told the other day that I shouldn't have my baby shower too far in advance from my due date, in case she dies after the shower in utero, so it's "not embarrassing" and "gifts don't go to waste." I was absolutely appalled. This was a family friend I was inviting to said shower. I screamed how effing dare you right in her ear and hung up on her. Worst thing I ever heard in my life.

/endrant
 
2013-04-11 01:36:56 PM
Berating people for not breastfeeding is the same as berating people for being overweight.

Its none of your goddamn farking business. You don't know what they have to deal with, so STFU.

Also, if you don't support public breastfeeding, you don't support breastfeeding. Period.  Advocating breastfeeding and then turning around and treating women like they are disgusting for daring to do it openly is hypocritical. Its one of the reasons women don't breastfeed, they are ashamed and afraid to do it in public.
 
2013-04-11 01:37:45 PM

MeanJean: Berating people for not breastfeeding is the same as berating people for being overweight.


Fatties are legitimate targets.
 
2013-04-11 01:40:46 PM

orbister: MeanJean: Berating people for not breastfeeding is the same as berating people for being overweight.

Fatties are legitimate targets.


really really big legitimate targets
 
2013-04-11 01:41:23 PM

orbister: MeanJean: Berating people for not breastfeeding is the same as berating people for being overweight.

Fatties are legitimate targets.


Plus, they're easier to hit!
 
2013-04-11 01:42:54 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: PastaFazoole: ladyhawk: Could've written TFA myself.  My twins came 5 weeks early.  The hospital had NO breast pumps and it took 4 days for the hospital lactation consultant to even get to see me.  Still had problems when I got home and the lactation consultant who came berated me for using a burp rag.  Even the last consultant (who was wonderful) couldn't help...

What is supposedly wrong with using a burp rag?

More importantly, did you gag her with the rag? I would have. I think the answer to these and many other problems is harsh words and swift reactions. I think its become acceptable to send a pregnant or postpartum woman into a crying jag because hormones, so maybe, just maybe, we need to be more firm and less weepy with our reactions. If they think its OK to dissolve a pregnant woman into teary guilt, maybe they need to be gagged with burp rags.


Her reasoning was "spit up from breast-fed babies doesn't stain so you don't need to worry".

Seriously.  Because it's really such a Zen Mom moment when your kid goes all Linda Blair on you.

She was a dick. Me From Today wants to go back in time and punch her in the junk.  Alas, Me From Then's brain, following a year of fertility treatments, a difficult twin pregnancy, pre-eclampsia, a c-section and sleep deprivation, was not quite functioning on all thrusters and pretty much all I could do was sob uncontrollably.  My husband and I were pretty much deer in the headlights at this point - we were not prepared for twin newborns at all.

The cool thing is, 5.5 years later - after a lot of effort - we're all okay.  My kids are awesome and healthy and, aside from the normal kid stuff (e.g. kid trying to feed Elmer's glue to puppy, etc), we love being parents.
 
2013-04-11 01:44:30 PM

kiwimoogle84: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: My hope is that when I have Little Impatiens, I will breastfeed. My mom was 50-50. I was BF'ed until 9 months, even though she went back to work at 6 weeks while my brother was exclusively formula after my mom left the hospital AMA. My brother stayed, as he was still in need of care, but my mom's sister passed away unexpectedly the day after Lil Bro was born and my grandparents were out of town. Someone needed to take care of business and in my mom's family, its my mom that jumpstarts the "getting shiat done" for the family. The stress of the untimely passing of her sister, according to the doctor, caused her to lose her supply. I'm hoping, since she was successful under ideal circumstances, I will be too.

I have narcolepsy though, so I'm not sure how likely it will be for me to stay off medication and maintain a round-the-clock feeding schedule. I am currently off meds right now because I get enough sleep at night and can take a nap in the afternoon if necessary. I think its better for my hypothetical children to not be passengers in sleepy momma's car, so if formula becomes a necessity because the buggers can't let me sleep, I'll go on meds again and drive safely.

I hope my "fark you very much" vibe will serve me well in pregnancy and post partum. I am thoroughly unapproachable in the best of situations, so hopefully that will serve to keep the commentators at bay. I will need it, my own mother in law, a medical professional, is anti-breast feeding (calls it gross) and she plays the "I told you so" game when my sister in law (married to my husband's brother) had to stop BFing because of issues with the kids. Really, its for my MIL's own health that she'd keep her mouth shut about it, because if she opened it, she'd be closing it with fewer teeth.

I just keep coming across you with stories about your MIL. It's kind of amusing. Sorry to hear about your narcolepsy, that can be a really severe problem. But should you get to mini-impatients ...


Thanks!

My MIL is hilarious at a distance. I've dealt with her for 10 years, so its not like she's some new force in my life. My husband pretty much agrees that she's not in her right mind most of the time. Things like being entitled to feed my nephews whatever she wants are real sticking point for him because he is very nutrition conscious and does not believe that a 9 month old needs to eat all the whipped cream off the top of a Starbucks drink (yeah, that happened, with my nephew...)

I've been good so far with the narcolepsy, I think more exercise has alleviated the insomnia, which means I sleep better at night and need less day sleep. I've needed maybe 3 after work naps in the last 3 months that I've been off the meds. The doctor and I agreed to go off meds right now because when I am pregnant and breast feeding the meds are not OK for use. Its been better than I thought.

I have a very good friend who is like the tinder to my fire. She has successfully overcome a severe eating disorder, earned a PhD and is raising two of the best little girls. She does what works for her and doesn't do what doesn't work for her. She doesn't take flak from her parents or her friends and I am glad she's a person I can trust to tell me if I'm being railroaded. My MIL is a conductor of the my way is the only way railroad, so I just need to stay out of her way and realize she's looking out for herself, to always be right, rather than what's best for those she claims to love.
 
2013-04-11 01:44:32 PM

HortusMatris: orbister: MeanJean: Berating people for not breastfeeding is the same as berating people for being overweight.

Fatties are legitimate targets.

Plus, they're easier to hit!


But harder to kill.
 
2013-04-11 01:44:55 PM

orbister: MeanJean: Berating people for not breastfeeding is the same as berating people for being overweight.

Fatties are legitimate ample targets.

 
2013-04-11 01:47:45 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: CapeFearCadaver: Bathia_Mapes: I was already crying my eyes out that I couldn't breastfeed & those harpies from the LLL made me feel as though I were the worst mother in the world.

:( I'll punch them in the throat for you....

I'll hold their arms while you do.


:-)
 
2013-04-11 01:48:31 PM

Altair: Could someone explain this nonsense to a 30 yr old stoner with no kids?  Please don't make me Google breast feeding news.


There's a 'healthy' breast feeding push going on.  There's lots of benefits(statistically) for the child if the mother can breast feed, lots of research, and there's quite a bit of backlash against the formula makers, who pulled something of a cigarette campaign, going so far as to convince poor African mothers that they NEED to breast feed.  Another tactic is to *give* these poor mothers the formula for the first month(and they're food insecure enough that saying no to free food just isn't done) - just long enough to ensure that they've stopped lactating, so now their baby NEEDS the expensive formula

Then there's China and Melamine.  It affected millions of babies in china, as milk deliberately contaminated with Melamine to falsely boost protein indicators was used to make formula.  China, in regards to formula, is in much the same boat as Africa and the US in the midst of the industrial revolution - women needing to work uncompromising work shifts are unavailable to breast feed*, thus need to switch to formula.  But they're also generally wealthy enough to be able to afford it, and right now due to Melamine, which sickened hundreds of thousands of infants, there's a general distrust of Chinese brands, thus the shipping worldwide bit...  Of course, China has more mothers that almost any random company, so yes, they can swamp dealers in other countries.

BTW, I was not only a formula baby, I was a prescription formula one due to an allergy from my own mother's breast milk.  Oops.  I fully recognize that there are SOME mothers that need to use formula because breast feeding is either contra-indicated(lack of expression, contamination due to necessary medication, etc...) and can't afford the outrageous prices of a wet nurse, bottled human milk, or as in my case, milk itself is contraindicated.

*In the USA you're much more likely today to get time to breast feed, or have your kid with you, then in the '90s, for example.
 
2013-04-11 01:49:04 PM

HortusMatris: [farm9.staticflickr.com image 374x500]


That is the best photo ever taken.
 
2013-04-11 01:49:53 PM
Orbister

Fatties are legitimate targets.

Why? Why is it okay to berate overweight people but not non-breastfeeding mothers?
 
2013-04-11 01:53:14 PM

kiwimoogle84: CapeFearCadaver: kiwimoogle84: she

CSS- I was actually told the other day that I shouldn't have my baby shower too far in advance from my due date, in case she dies after the shower in utero, so it's "not embarrassing" and "gifts don't go to waste." I was absolutely appalled. This was a family friend I was inviting to said shower. I screamed how effing dare you right in her ear and hung up on her. Worst thing I ever heard in my life.

/endrant


Oh, dude. That's not a family friend, that's a family frenemy. I'm glad you used your pregnancy hormones for their intended purpose.

/also knocked up
//so glad I don't have to suffer through a baby shower this time around
 
2013-04-11 01:53:40 PM

ladyhawk: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: PastaFazoole: ladyhawk: Could've written TFA myself.  My twins came 5 weeks early.  The hospital had NO breast pumps and it took 4 days for the hospital lactation consultant to even get to see me.  Still had problems when I got home and the lactation consultant who came berated me for using a burp rag.  Even the last consultant (who was wonderful) couldn't help...

What is supposedly wrong with using a burp rag?

More importantly, did you gag her with the rag? I would have. I think the answer to these and many other problems is harsh words and swift reactions. I think its become acceptable to send a pregnant or postpartum woman into a crying jag because hormones, so maybe, just maybe, we need to be more firm and less weepy with our reactions. If they think its OK to dissolve a pregnant woman into teary guilt, maybe they need to be gagged with burp rags.

Her reasoning was "spit up from breast-fed babies doesn't stain so you don't need to worry".

Seriously.  Because it's really such a Zen Mom moment when your kid goes all Linda Blair on you.

She was a dick. Me From Today wants to go back in time and punch her in the junk.  Alas, Me From Then's brain, following a year of fertility treatments, a difficult twin pregnancy, pre-eclampsia, a c-section and sleep deprivation, was not quite functioning on all thrusters and pretty much all I could do was sob uncontrollably.  My husband and I were pretty much deer in the headlights at this point - we were not prepared for twin newborns at all.

The cool thing is, 5.5 years later - after a lot of effort - we're all okay.  My kids are awesome and healthy and, aside from the normal kid stuff (e.g. kid trying to feed Elmer's glue to puppy, etc), we love being parents.


That's funny, because my friend who has never even bought formula (she's not bragging, she was lamenting that this might be problematic during her move from SoCal to PNW) also has stained baby clothes and the little one just started solids when they moved to the PNW. Maybe it doesn't stain as bad or it isn't permanent, but who the fark wants baby puke on them PERIOD, let along discerning between the different forms?

I hate that that cow made you cry. I think this is why doulas of the angry and burly variety should be employed... they can throat punch for you when you're not feisty enough to do it yourself! I'm glad you got through and that the family is thriving!
 
2013-04-11 01:58:18 PM

Cybernetic: what_now: When I was in a Wal Mart in Central Florida (let that sink in for a while) a woman with three filthy children started talking to me. My friend, who was one of those "Awww...babies" types, asked how old the littlest one was. Answer. 8 months. I asked what was in the bottle. Answer: root beer.

So you know. Worse thinks that formula

Just out of curiosity, do you remember where the Walmart was?

/Central Floridian.


Ocala.
 
2013-04-11 01:58:55 PM
The douchey assholes among us commonly offer unsolicited criticism a/o advice to others, and women in particular take malicious pleasure in making other women feel like shiat.

ricromero.jpg
 
2013-04-11 01:59:19 PM

mesmer242: kiwimoogle84: CapeFearCadaver: kiwimoogle84: she

CSS- I was actually told the other day that I shouldn't have my baby shower too far in advance from my due date, in case she dies after the shower in utero, so it's "not embarrassing" and "gifts don't go to waste." I was absolutely appalled. This was a family friend I was inviting to said shower. I screamed how effing dare you right in her ear and hung up on her. Worst thing I ever heard in my life.

/endrant

Oh, dude. That's not a family friend, that's a family frenemy. I'm glad you used your pregnancy hormones for their intended purpose.

/also knocked up
//so glad I don't have to suffer through a baby shower this time around


Another MIL story: my BIL and his wife were living on the opposite coast when the first nephew was conceived/born. They got married because of babby, so they did it on the quick, so MIL hosted a reception in the PNW for them. SIL was not even 20 weeks along yet (she might have still been in her first trimester!) and MIL decided she must host a baby shower too, since none of the local family would be on the opposite coast for the baby shower/birth of the baby. She actually told her new DIL, a pregnant woman she'd spent less than a week with the year prior to the shotgun wedding, that MIL could hold the baby gifts for a while, in case, you know, the pregnancy didn't go to term.

Then, at the baby shower, FIL called the expecting mom fat. This happened AFTER he asked one of his nieces at Christmas (the first one after she went to college) if it was a Freshman 15 or was it more like 20? Tact. Its sooooo 20 years ago!
 
2013-04-11 02:03:57 PM

orbister: It beats me why anyone who could breast feed would chose formula. Breast is free and there's no faffing about with sterilisation, carrying stuff around, getting supplies and so on. That said, there are lots of perfectly good reasons for not being able to breast feed, and in those cases you're hardly going to let the kid starve to death.


I know our case is not the norm but our daughter was 2 months early at 3lbs 6ozs so mom's milk hadn't come in yet and never did come in.
We had to rely on a special formula that was very expensive and was not easily found in stores.
But all these years late our daughter is healthy, active and very bright.

/preeclampsia sucks
 
2013-04-11 02:05:13 PM

mesmer242: kiwimoogle84: CapeFearCadaver: kiwimoogle84: she

CSS- I was actually told the other day that I shouldn't have my baby shower too far in advance from my due date, in case she dies after the shower in utero, so it's "not embarrassing" and "gifts don't go to waste." I was absolutely appalled. This was a family friend I was inviting to said shower. I screamed how effing dare you right in her ear and hung up on her. Worst thing I ever heard in my life.

/endrant

Oh, dude. That's not a family friend, that's a family frenemy. I'm glad you used your pregnancy hormones for their intended purpose.

/also knocked up
//so glad I don't have to suffer through a baby shower this time around


I'm having two- a fun party with my sacrilegious friends, and a separate monotonous one for the Mormon relatives and stuffy adults. First kid though, so I'm not going to turn down showers and gifts. Congrats to you too!

This lady is so never coming into my presence ever again if I can help it. She's the kind of woman who would walk up to you and say something like "I see you have horrible acne, I can suggest products to help." You just DON'T SAY CRAP LIKE THAT. Something in her brain is broken.

And yeah, I kind of see her screwed up logic since she had a stillborn once, but I seriously wish I had the presence of mind to say "well then don't send your kid to school with a lunch tomorrow, because he could be run over by a bus and you don't want that lunch going to waste!"

/why do people suck
 
2013-04-11 02:14:34 PM

kiwimoogle84:

And yeah, I kind of see her screwed up logic since she had a stillborn once,


how embarrassing

/had to
//sad sh*t
 
2013-04-11 02:15:40 PM

kiwimoogle84: And yeah, I kind of see her screwed up logic since she had a stillborn once, but I seriously wish I had the presence of mind to say "well then don't send your kid to school with a lunch tomorrow, because he could be run over by a bus and you don't want that lunch going to waste!"

/why do people suck


If I'd thought of a comeback that sharp, I'd have called back.
 
2013-04-11 02:21:01 PM

ampoliros: When the wife had the boy, she tried and tried to breastfeed, she put that boy on her 24/7 it seemed like. When she wasn't feeding, she was trying to pump. In the end, she just couldn't make any real volume and he wasn't interested (even the "breastapo" couldn't make it work). Less than 1 month in we went from supplementing with formula to straight up formula.

The boy is now 10+ months old, healthier than any kid ever, active as hell, 90% on all the charts, sleeps through the night, plays gently with the cats, is eating big boy food by himself, and is totally happy all the time.

Whatever benefits breastfeeding has over formula are nothing compared to what even slightly more involved parenting can bring to the table.


Holy cow, we are living parallel lives.  Ditto to everything you said down to current baby age, stats, behavior and time on the boob.  Due to breast cancer, only one of my boobs is still functional and it couldn't keep up with the munchkin's monster appetite so I threw in the boob at 5 weeks and went full formula.  After seeing how much he thrived on the artificial stuff I quickly got over any guilt I had.  He is completely healthy, happy and hitting every developmental milestone on time or early.
 
2013-04-11 02:22:13 PM

busy chillin': kiwimoogle84:

And yeah, I kind of see her screwed up logic since she had a stillborn once,

how embarrassing

/had to
//sad sh*t


People who have had stillborn babies can recover their faculties. The wife of my childhood friend is exceedingly graceful and kind after having lost their baby. People seemed incapable of not saying the most heinous things to her though. Like when she started packing up the nursery, "wer'e having a girl too, so we can take some of the nursery stuff off your hands!" Thankfully, the man she married is as sharp as a tack and handled some of the stupidity while his wife got help with her grief. I think it was therapeutic for him to tell people to fark off.
 
2013-04-11 02:31:08 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: kiwimoogle84: And yeah, I kind of see her screwed up logic since she had a stillborn once, but I seriously wish I had the presence of mind to say "well then don't send your kid to school with a lunch tomorrow, because he could be run over by a bus and you don't want that lunch going to waste!"

/why do people suck

If I'd thought of a comeback that sharp, I'd have called back.


I didn't think of it until later, sadly.

And my god. LARTs. All of them. Right to the cranium.

*for those unaware, a LART is a loser attitude readjustment tool.

/2x4
 
2013-04-11 02:41:23 PM
Then I got smart. I bought a super hop-bombed IPA, poured myself a glass, and waited. Sure enough, the kid swiped my glass and took himself a huge drink. I was able to grab the glass before he dropped it, and the look of betrayal on his face was priceless. It broke him of that behavior, immediately.
You know, you took a big risk. By age 8, the poor kid could be living in Portland, growing a full beard, driving a VW Golf, playing fretless in a garage band, dating some chick who doesn't shave her legs, and working as a php programmer at some startup. Is that what you want for your son?
 
2013-04-11 02:45:42 PM

shortymac: You know, it makes me wonder why wet-nurses haven't come back in style yet amongst the Yuppie types or buying frozen breast milk from friends.


Buying frozen breastmilk is actually a thing.  I seem to remember it being like $200/pint though.  Mostly because the types to buy that stuff are also the types to demand an organic diet from the seller.
 
2013-04-11 02:48:22 PM

kiwimoogle84: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: kiwimoogle84: And yeah, I kind of see her screwed up logic since she had a stillborn once, but I seriously wish I had the presence of mind to say "well then don't send your kid to school with a lunch tomorrow, because he could be run over by a bus and you don't want that lunch going to waste!"

/why do people suck

If I'd thought of a comeback that sharp, I'd have called back.

I didn't think of it until later, sadly.

And my god. LARTs. All of them. Right to the cranium.

*for those unaware, a LART is a loser attitude readjustment tool.

/2x4


Days, weeks, months later? I'd still call back. "Listen, I was thinking about the thing you said about my baby shower and I think maybe you should not pack your son's lunch tomorrow, you never know what could happen on his way to school, before he trades that lunch for candy and chips. It might be completely wasted!"
 
2013-04-11 02:53:20 PM

MeanJean: Why? Why is it okay to berate overweight people but not non-breastfeeding mothers?


Because fat people are disgusting, obviously. Don't believe me? Try a GIS on "fat person" and then a GIS on "non-breastfeeding mother"
 
2013-04-11 02:55:31 PM
For those of you who are like me and will soon be a first time parent, and you plan on breastfeeding, many insurance companies will actually offer a good breast pump for free/cheap.   We're getting a $300 Medela for free.  Thanks Obamacare!
 
2013-04-11 03:34:08 PM
I breastfed both of my children (in public, oh nos!). One for 13 months, the other for 8 months then I switched to formula for 4 months. No one ever gave my crap. I never gave anyone else crap. I dont care. No one else should care.
 
2013-04-11 03:49:29 PM
I'm guessing the Central Florida Walmart in question is either Palm Bay or Titusville.

My April Fools baby decided to come 3 weeks early. She had a great latch, but not a strong enough suck. She was borderline jaundiced and had started to lose too much weight in her first 3 days of life, so the doc said supplement or she's probably going back to the hospital for a few days. Supplement we did and she got better. She was a half and half baby for 3 months, and then 75% formula for 2 more, until my supply became completely dead. I never really got in a good supply and completely lost it when I returned to work (and as a waitress there's really not much time to pump). She is now a little over year and completely healthy and hitting all her milestones. She's had one bad cold and one little case of sniffles and that's it (knock on wood).

When I went to talk to my (wonderful) lactation consultant (provided through WIC), my daughter was 5 days old and we were dealing with all these problems, so I asked if there was an electric pump available. She called in her boss, who was sick with a cold and so stood outside the door shouting at me about how I shouldn't be giving her a bottle because she won't want to go back to the nipple and other Boob Nazi things. We had just gotten home from the hospital 2 days prior, we were first time parents doing what we thought was best for our kid's health, and here was this woman berating me. I promptly burst into tears when she left and the woman got reprimanded by HER boss. Still, it made me feel so guilty and it took a while to get over that guilt.

I'm glad she's eating big girl food and I don't get asked the breast feeding question anymore. I would answer honestly but with as much booby bodily function detail as possible, since, ya know, they asked. Little old ladies would squirm.
 
2013-04-11 03:52:16 PM

Firethorn: shortymac: You know, it makes me wonder why wet-nurses haven't come back in style yet amongst the Yuppie types or buying frozen breast milk from friends.

Buying frozen breastmilk is actually a thing.  I seem to remember it being like $200/pint though.  Mostly because the types to buy that stuff are also the types to demand an organic diet from the seller.


People will BUY this for 200/pint!!!!!!

Can someone start nursing even if they never had a kid????? A those prices I can pay off my student loans in a few months!

/Might pull a south park "Cherokee Hair Tampons" and get some mexicans
 
2013-04-11 04:05:34 PM

trackerbri: When I went out with my wife after the second one was born and something like this would come up we'd settled on the quiet stare (since "STFU and get out of here!" is problematic once you have a kid).  We just stopped talking to each other and just stare at the person with a vaguely annoyed look, saying nothing and not answering any questions.  Just treat them like you saw a strange bug or something.  They'll scurry off soon enough.

Parenting advice about our oldest (3 year old boy) now gets met with "We've been looking for a babysitter for Friday night, obviously you're very knowledgeable, do you have a card or something?"  I swear you can almost see the cartoon dust cloud as they turn tail and run.  He's not a bad kid, but he's three, high energy, and a boy so he can be a bit hard to deal with at times.


That's awesome on both counts. I wonder if they learn their lesson or not after that. The latter gives me a great idea when I encounter that.

The annoying thing is there're so many people that come up all cheery and complement on how cute and well behaved she is, then half of them start getting nosy. Really don't know which way it's going to go. Just pay the complement if you must and stick to your business. Then there are the weirdos...

CSB:
I was unfortunately not present for this, but I really wish I was there to witness this. My MIL had our kid out in public. Some lady came up all weepy saying how beautiful she was and if she could hold her. Thankfully my MIL has a good head on her shoulders (unlike my mother) and deflected the request while holding my daughter in a bit more protectively.

Honestly people. Don't touch my kid unless you get permission. I don't know what plague you're carrying around that she hasn't been vaccinated for and you obviously don't understand how lethal pertussis can be. I don't go up to you randomly to tickle one of your extremities, pinch your cheek, and/or try and pass a disease. Maybe I should make that into a shirt.
 
2013-04-11 04:07:30 PM
When I had both my podlings I tried to breastfeed.  Turns out I had a higher than expected rate of milkflow.  Nearly drowned the little buggers.  So I ended up pumping and bottle feeding the expressed milk to both of them.  I was the anti-christ to the boob police.  I got harassed constantly that I was doing it wrong and that because my kids weren't getting the milk straight from the tap that they'd somehow end up retarded with 4 arms and 2 heads.

And this is one of the reasons that I will never, ever have more kids.
 
2013-04-11 04:09:17 PM
I breastfed for just over 3 months, but then my daughter weaned herself because she just couldn't get enough food in her. We didn't know at the time she had cystic fibrosis (she wasn't diagnosed until she was nine years old), and she had a very difficult time breathing and sucking as her nose was completely plugged. It is much harder to get milk out of a nipple than it is to get out of a bottle, and a lot of the time she would get exhausted and fall asleep before she got enough food. She finally fussed so much that I tried supplementing with a bottle and she was able to get enough milk out of it fast enough so she got full before she fell asleep, sometime she didn't fall asleep at all because sucking from the bottle was so much easier for her.

I myself ended up being a bottle-baby because my mother couldn't make enough milk for me, and I ended up getting sick on the formulas at the time, became a "failure to thrive" baby, until I was switched to soy formula (which was unusual back then) because I had such bad lactose intolerance. Still do.\

Anyway, breast is best, but there are hundreds of reasons why people can't breastfeed and that decision should be left to the parents and their health providers. Sheesh, why is this even an issue?
 
2013-04-11 04:20:04 PM
I'd love to twat-slap the hatchet-faced crones who gave my wife hell when she was trying to breast feed. She just couldn't produce enough, so had to use formula, and the evil snippy twunts got all self-righteous and passive-aggressive around her.

I once silently wished that one lady's kid would die - it was that bad.
 
2013-04-11 04:20:18 PM

hockeychick: When I had both my podlings I tried to breastfeed.  Turns out I had a higher than expected rate of milkflow.  Nearly drowned the little buggers.  So I ended up pumping and bottle feeding the expressed milk to both of them.  I was the anti-christ to the boob police.  I got harassed constantly that I was doing it wrong and that because my kids weren't getting the milk straight from the tap that they'd somehow end up retarded with 4 arms and 2 heads.

And this is one of the reasons that I will never, ever have more kids.


Reminds me of my sister- and the joys I possibly have to look forward to. She had to pump for a minute before directly feeding her kids. I swear I tried not to laugh when she squirted one of them in the eye. I have so much to apologize to her for now that I'm due in a few months myself.
 
2013-04-11 04:27:13 PM
Wow I am shocked at all these stories about busybodies coming up to people and harassing them. I guess I was lucky.

When you're a parent, everything you do is wrong (in someone's opinion).

/ breastfeeding is great
// so is formula
/// did both
 
2013-04-11 04:32:07 PM
It's definitely a good idea to rag on other women about their life choices that have nothing to do with you.

And it's good practice for when you go home and rag on your husband and kids about every little thing.
 
2013-04-11 04:40:55 PM
No mention of Bloomberg yet?
 
2013-04-11 04:56:32 PM
Goodness, from this whole thread I'm beginning to think women can easily breastfeed their baby and do are now the evil biatches for making other moms angry. They probably should hide their narcissistic creepy habit and leave formula containers about to help cover it up. They just do it to act better than other women.

Lets not even get started on the ones whose breasts never got saggy afterwards or developed horrible deformed nipples (you know how breastfeeding usually makes them look like badgers chewed on them.)
 
2013-04-11 05:09:57 PM

FunkOut: Goodness, from this whole thread I'm beginning to think women can easily breastfeed their baby and do are now the evil biatches for making other moms angry. They probably should hide their narcissistic creepy habit and leave formula containers about to help cover it up. They just do it to act better than other women.

Lets not even get started on the ones whose breasts never got saggy afterwards or developed horrible deformed nipples (you know how breastfeeding usually makes them look like badgers chewed on them.)


Thank you for that visual of what I have to look forward to in a few months.
 
2013-04-11 05:13:25 PM
I don't understand why people feel the need to come up with some long, expository comeback for these assholes. Seems like a simple, "Mind your own farking business" will suffice.

That's really the only explanation they deserve. You're a grownup. You don't have to explain yourself to other grownups.
 
2013-04-11 05:19:59 PM
Orbister

Because fat people are disgusting, obviously. Don't believe me? Try a GIS on "fat person" and then a GIS on "non-breastfeeding mother"

A lot of non-breastfeeding mothers can't help not breastfeeding due to medical conditions. Some fat people (not all, but many) can't help being fat due to various conditions, like polycystic ovarian syndrome, thyroid disease, and so forth.

My point is, whether you personally find it disgusting or not is irrelevant. You shouldn't pick on someone for being fat because there might be a whole host of medical problems making them fat that you don't know about, and they might not be able to help it, just like some non-breastfeeding mothers may not be able to breastfeed. So who the fark are you to judge anyone?

To put it another way, mind your own farking business about other people's bodies.
 
2013-04-11 05:23:52 PM

kiwimoogle84: FunkOut: Goodness, from this whole thread I'm beginning to think women can easily breastfeed their baby and do are now the evil biatches for making other moms angry. They probably should hide their narcissistic creepy habit and leave formula containers about to help cover it up. They just do it to act better than other women.

Lets not even get started on the ones whose breasts never got saggy afterwards or developed horrible deformed nipples (you know how breastfeeding usually makes them look like badgers chewed on them.)

Thank you for that visual of what I have to look forward to in a few months.


I chortle in a quiet cube farm.

The problem is experts have deemed one way ideal and another adequate. Not everyone can do things the ideal way but its not like people can just change their reality. It shouldn't be so divisive. Women just don't seem predisposed to being kind and supportive to one another. Its competition. I don't look forward to that part of motherhood at all.
 
2013-04-11 05:57:05 PM

MeanJean: You shouldn't pick on someone for being fat because there might be a whole host of medical problems making them fat that you don't know about, and they might not be able to help it, just like some non-breastfeeding mothers may not be able to breastfeed. So who the fark are you to judge anyone?

To put it another way, mind your own farking business about other people's bodies.


Could you move a little to one side? I'm trying to see the thread. Thanks.
 
2013-04-11 07:07:31 PM
Orbister

Why haven't I blocked you yet? Oh well. Problem remedied.
 
2013-04-11 07:11:52 PM

HortusMatris: [farm9.staticflickr.com image 374x500]


i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-04-11 07:43:34 PM
I breastfed both kids (now 19 and 17, respectively) but had to stop and supplement with formula on my first.  We had Rh incompatibility issues that surfaced at birth (I'm Rh+, he was Rh-) and the lactation consultant told me to stop BFing and just pump out the milk.

We're supposed to be a tolerant society; why can't we simply respect each other's choices (breast or bottle) and leave it at that?
 
2013-04-11 08:42:15 PM

Galileo's Daughter: We're supposed to be a tolerant society; why can't we simply respect each other's choices (breast or bottle) and leave it at that?


Because, sadly, we're not a tolerant society.
 
2013-04-11 08:43:03 PM

Burr: My wife was relieved that both kids could be breast fed.  They were for 6 months then it was on to the formula.  My son had two top and two bottom teeth by that time (and they were opposite of each other...ouch) and my daughter, being the curly redheaded child she is, was violent about feeding (punching, pinching, twisting, etc..), so it was extra incentive to cut them off.

We were done with formula for both after a year (moved onto whole milk in sippy cups).

Yeah, anybody who goes out of their way to force their views on you without getting the whole story are assholes. Some people can't produce milk, and they are usually depressed about it to begin with, without you coming along and acting all high and mighty and reminding them that they can't produce milk.

On the other hand, I did know a few parents who used formula because they were lazy.  In one case, its because she didn't want to "have disfigured nipples".

/she had more problems then that
//poor kid never had a chance


FTFY.

Unless you are my child, you don't get to demand an explanation for the choices I make for said child.

My children are grown but I shudder to think what kind of reception some nosy busybody would have received from my poor, sleep-deprived self by questioning why I bottle fed my kids.  What the fark is wrong with some of you people?  When did it become acceptable to question a mother's choices for her children?
 
2013-04-11 08:51:09 PM

shortymac: Can someone start nursing even if they never had a kid????? A those prices I can pay off my student loans in a few months!


I've heard it's possible, but can be difficult.  You'd have to put a breast pump on multiple times a day, probably for months, and hope that you get lucky with your genetic and physical conditions being such for easy lactation.

Now I'm reminded of the story about Judith Waterford, a wet nurse in the 1800's.  She was still producing milk on her 81st birthday, and during her prime produced 2 quarts a day.
 
2013-04-11 09:44:17 PM
I'm going to have to tell  my sister about "Breastapo" , she usually just calls them tit nazi's.  Funny thing is that she used to be really be into that whole crunchy mom thing, to the point of being a self righteous twat about it sometimes.  Her eldest was breastfed until almost 2 when she self-weened.  Kid number, totally planning on the same, but he was born with Classic Galactosemia.   This disorder means that my nephew cannot have anything galactose, including breast milk.  It's amazing how having a rare disorder in your child will let a mother see who are really her friends.  Overnight she became a pariah even though everyone understood she couldn't breastfed him.  It's just that nobody though she should be out in public, especially with them and bottling feeding "because it will confuse people".  Mom's that had children who were friends with her daughter didn't want them playing together either for the same reason, because it would set a bad example for their young daughters.  Worst one was the leader of her mother's group who though that "sometimes nature needs to take its course with these thing", IE breastfed him and if he becomes mentally disabled or dies, so be it.  Luckily she made new friends that were not judgement helicopter mom and took the stick out of her ass.  Kid number 3 was breastfed, but my sister now takes motherhood as a "judge not lest you be judged" viewpoint.

/still would gladly except my old annoying sister back if it mean my nephew didn't have his disorder
//it farken sucks.
 
2013-04-11 10:41:44 PM

what_now: Cybernetic: what_now: When I was in a Wal Mart in Central Florida (let that sink in for a while) a woman with three filthy children started talking to me. My friend, who was one of those "Awww...babies" types, asked how old the littlest one was. Answer. 8 months. I asked what was in the bottle. Answer: root beer.

So you know. Worse thinks that formula

Just out of curiosity, do you remember where the Walmart was?

/Central Floridian.

Ocala.


You went to Ocala on purpose? Were you buying a horse? It's the only thing I can think of to do in Ocala.
 
2013-04-12 01:27:27 AM

TeaEarlGreyHot: Then I got smart. I bought a super hop-bombed IPA, poured myself a glass, and waited. Sure enough, the kid swiped my glass and took himself a huge drink. I was able to grab the glass before he dropped it, and the look of betrayal on his face was priceless. It broke him of that behavior, immediately.
You know, you took a big risk. By age 8, the poor kid could be living in Portland, growing a full beard, driving a VW Golf, playing fretless in a garage band, dating some chick who doesn't shave her legs, and working as a php programmer at some startup. Is that what you want for your son?


So what's wrong with that? his son's wife will most definitely breastfeed.

/PDX native
 
2013-04-12 03:14:04 AM

octopied: not choosing formula, she's breastfeeding but using formula for the couple night feeds so her husband can do them because small babies eat all the time.

I don't know where this huge brigade of net nannies or whatever she's finding is coming from


She's not making this up or being a drama queen.  Those La Leche dirtbags harassed my sister daily in hospital, to the point of tears.  They made her feel like a bad mother because breast feeding was extremely difficult for her.  Then you cop it repeatedly from the Plunket nurses.  So now a lot of mothers are lying to the very people who are supposed to help them maintain the health of their babies, because they don't want another lecture about something they already know and have made a choice about.

It's gotten so ridiculous there was a lovely anti-smoking ad here in NZ featuring a rugby player feeding his baby.  This was a good message because it was about smoking being bad for your kids, showing a famous, very masculine, non-white father looking after his baby.  Awesome.

Until a kerfuffle was made about how it was wrong to show him bottle-feeding because it sets a bad example for Maori, who have low compliance with breast feeding.  Just.  Gah!  As if lack of breastfeeding was the biggest problem in the communities they were trying to reach with that message.
 
2013-04-12 08:31:44 AM

MeanJean: Why haven't I blocked you yet?


I used a couple of mirrors to see round you. Gravitational lensing was an issue, but I fixed that in software,
 
2013-04-12 08:36:15 AM

Galileo's Daughter: We're supposed to be a tolerant society; why can't we simply respect each other's choices (breast or bottle) and leave it at that?


Because there are too many other emotions involved. Bringing up a kid is a mind blowing responsibility for which most of us are aware that e have no training whatsoever. There is therefore a natural tendency to get defensive about one's own decisions and hostile towards other people's different decisions.

There is also the sexual aspect. While the general tenor of this thread has been "Meh. Do what you want and what works." just see what happens when a breastfeeding in public thread comes up. Instantly hordes of farkers, almost all male, start whining about it along the lines of "I like boobies. Boobies exist for my sexual gratification. I don't want to see boobies used in any other way."
 
2013-04-12 08:38:12 AM

SarcasticFark: When did it become acceptable to question a mother's choices for her children?


When we started to think that children had a right not to be abused. Of course a choice of bottle feeding isn't by any stretch of the imagination abuse, but some choices made by parents are quite rightly open to question.
 
2013-04-12 10:04:07 AM
Orbister

Why haven't I blocked you yet? Oh well. Problem remedied.



pussy
 
2013-04-12 12:30:17 PM

Well I use Mac/Linux...: When it's 3am, and he's finished everything you just pumped yet he's still hungry, what else are you supposed to do besides get him some formula?


Cheeseburger!
 
2013-04-12 04:10:49 PM
Orbister

Because fat people are disgusting, obviously. Don't believe me? Try a GIS on "fat person" and then a GIS on "non-breastfeeding mother"

A lot of non-breastfeeding mothers can't help not breastfeeding due to medical conditions. Some fat people (not all, but many) can't help being fat due to various conditions, like polycystic ovarian syndrome, thyroid disease, and so forth.

My point is, whether you personally find it disgusting or not is irrelevant. You shouldn't pick on someone for being fat because there might be a whole host of medical problems making them fat that you don't know about, and they might not be able to help it, just like some non-breastfeeding mothers may not be able to breastfeed. So who the fark are you to judge anyone?

To put it another way, mind your own farking business about other people's bodies.



He didn't tell anyone what to do. He just gave his opinion in a comment thread. Why don't you just mind YOUR own business and let him say what he wants?
 
2013-04-12 08:06:53 PM
DoubleD99

He didn't tell anyone what to do. He just gave his opinion in a comment thread. Why don't you just mind YOUR own business and let him say what he wants?

I stated that criticizing someone for not breastfeeding is the same as criticizing being overweight, and that people should mind their business on both counts. Orbister apparently took issue with this premise as he considers fat people to be disgusting. I was telling him that he shouldn't criticize people for being overweight.

But apparently telling people not to unfairly criticize people means that I myself am criticizing people and that therefore you have to intervene and criticize me and OH SHI-

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