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(The New York Times)   50 former Nazi prison guards may be tried for war crimes. This is not a repeat of 1946   (nytimes.com) divider line 151
    More: Interesting, Auschwitz, Nazis, loves, Simon Wiesenthal Center, occupied Poland, death camps, John Demjanjuk, Holocaust  
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5570 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Apr 2013 at 7:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-10 09:33:35 PM
We should kill anybody with German blood to make sure we get them all. Until we get the execution apparatus constructed they can wear a distinctive mark (as if their blond hair wouldn't tell the story of their evil background).
 
2013-04-11 01:42:08 AM
I just don't know. These guys are some of the most despicable people from the 20th century. But were are about 70+ years after those events. Bringing them to justice might, at this point, help some people achieve closure of some sort. But realistically, these former guards are at least 86 years old, assuming that they were 16 when they were at these camps. Most are probably in their 90s at this point. They do not deserve to live even one more day.

But I wonder if it would be better to take these close to death people away from the people that have come to know them and care about them all these years later. If were dealing with this 20 or even 10 years ago I would probably see this differently and acknowledge benefit of bringing them to trail. But now? Why not let those that willing confess to their inhumanity to man be convicted and allowed to die at home. I know that they just don't deserve it, but do we really need to do anything other than convict them and make them accept responsibility for their earlier actions?

As I said, I'm just not sure. My family is not Jewish. My family (my grandfathers' era) fought for the allies.
 
2013-04-11 06:55:33 AM

Philbb: Bringing them to justice might, at this point,


What justice? Justice is many years beyond the realm of possible here. It's waaaaaay too late. This is just anal vengeance, which is a good band name.
 
2013-04-11 07:14:58 AM
Efraim Zuroff, the chief Nazi hunter for the Simon Wiesenthal Center, welcomed the new push to bring Holocaust perpetrators to justice before they die

Well if that job title doesn't get you laid, nothing will.
 
2013-04-11 07:28:23 AM
It's been 70 damn years, some people need to learn how to let shiat go.
 
2013-04-11 07:51:23 AM

ZAZ: We should kill anybody with German blood to make sure we get them all. Until we get the execution apparatus constructed they can wear a distinctive mark (as if their blond hair wouldn't tell the story of their evil background).


Oh shut the fark up. That's not what's being said here, and you damn well know it. There's a difference between a twenty one year old german, and a surviving guard who took an active part in the atrocities.

We went after the leadership in Nazi Germany because it was impossible to go after everyone who perpetrated the acts at the time. Even if you want to argue that it was 70+ years ago, there is no statute of limitations on murder.

But please, tell us more about how the Germans are poor and persecuted people, oh internet white knight.
 
2013-04-11 07:51:38 AM

ZAZ: they can wear a distinctive mark


Agrees

www.halapic.com
 
2013-04-11 07:52:59 AM
Mr. Demjanjuk was found guilty even though he was not directly linked to any specific crime. Instead the court, in Munich, ruled that his work as a guard at the camp automatically made him an accessory to any murders carried out there. It convicted him of being an accessory to the murder of all 28,060 people who died at the camp during his tenure as a guard there.

Riiiiight. Really scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
 
2013-04-11 07:53:55 AM
I wonder if it will take 70 years to bring Bush and Cheney to justice for their war crimes...

/popcorn
 
2013-04-11 07:54:20 AM
Damn, way to hold a grudge. I wasn't there so I don't know but weren't these basically kids who were drafted and just stood as guards? What are they on trial for, not going AWOL or not starting a revolt against their superiors? I dunno, it just looks like Germany trying to assuage their guilt. Get over it.
 
2013-04-11 07:54:46 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Riiiiight. Really scraping the bottom of the barrel here.


Of course he wasn't responsible. He was just following orders, like a good Nazi.
 
2013-04-11 07:56:56 AM
You know who else was a Nazi and never got brought to justice?

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-04-11 07:57:07 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Mr. Demjanjuk was found guilty even though he was not directly linked to any specific crime. Instead the court, in Munich, ruled that his work as a guard at the camp automatically made him an accessory to any murders carried out there. It convicted him of being an accessory to the murder of all 28,060 people who died at the camp during his tenure as a guard there.

Riiiiight. Really scraping the bottom of the barrel here.


I feel like a ghoul for asking but what was his defense layer's name?
 
2013-04-11 07:57:56 AM
There's that many of them still ALIVE??
Never mind the executions for war crimes, they're farking OLD.
 
2013-04-11 07:58:20 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Mr. Demjanjuk was found guilty even though he was not directly linked to any specific crime. Instead the court, in Munich, ruled that his work as a guard at the camp automatically made him an accessory to any murders carried out there. It convicted him of being an accessory to the murder of all 28,060 people who died at the camp during his tenure as a guard there.

Riiiiight. Really scraping the bottom of the barrel here.


Hey, there "aint no business like Shoah business".....a shakedown for more cash is probably also in order.
 
2013-04-11 08:00:29 AM
Hmm the story doesn't load and Fark will not even let me make smart/funny comments!?

What's up with that?
 
2013-04-11 08:01:39 AM
Well at least the story loaded now :p
 
2013-04-11 08:01:55 AM

hardinparamedic: HotWingConspiracy: Riiiiight. Really scraping the bottom of the barrel here.

Of course he wasn't responsible. He was just following orders, like a good Nazi.


Well yes, it seems the court openly stated he wasn't responsible. He was there though, so putting on a show trial to convict a nearly dead man was necessary I guess.
 
2013-04-11 08:02:51 AM
I'm not exactly sure what a conscripted 18 year old, who had been led to believe what they were doing was perfectly morally sound, were supposed to do, given that going AWOL would mean execution.
 
2013-04-11 08:04:00 AM

Free Radical: I wonder if it will take 70 years to bring Bush and Cheney to justice for their war crimes...

/popcorn


Nah they will be post humus. Too much vested interests and this be the information age, so not quite so easy to hide who was working where and mindlessly following what orders.
 
2013-04-11 08:04:58 AM
Perhaps one day, someone will hold the Israelis to account for their treatment of the Palestinians.
 
2013-04-11 08:05:11 AM

Bungles: I'm not exactly sure what a conscripted 18 year old, who had been led to believe what they were doing was perfectly morally sound, were supposed to do, given that going AWOL would mean execution.


The trick was to take a handful of the farkers with you (speaking commanding officers, not the civilians.)
 
2013-04-11 08:06:33 AM
Crimes of this magnitude should be pursued to the ends of the earth.  The fact that tptb are using this for their own nefarious purposes is just the way they roll.  Jerusalem is to be the new world capital.
 
2013-04-11 08:07:01 AM
Time to let shiat go. At this point there needs to be an end to the suffering that was WWII. Unless we find the likes Hitler, Goering, or Goebbels waiting to reemerge from their slumber in carbonite there should be a stop to this, because at this point the people left are those that were least responsible for the horrors of WWII.
 
2013-04-11 08:08:06 AM

hardinparamedic: There's a difference between a twenty one year old german, and a surviving guard who took an active part in the atrocities.


I think the problem is that a lot of these people were in occupied countries and had little choice in their job.

If they were "actively" abusing peopel yeah go after them.  If they just worked as a guard, I am not sure it is worth going after them.  Was every german guard who worked at these camps punished?  I thought we only went after their leaders, which makes me wonder why we woudl go after Polish guards.
 
2013-04-11 08:08:41 AM
"I mean, if I had my way... you'd wear that goddamn uniform for the rest of your pecker-suckin' life..."
 
2013-04-11 08:09:00 AM

Mugato: Damn, way to hold a grudge. I wasn't there so I don't know but weren't these basically kids who were drafted and just stood as guards? What are they on trial for, not going AWOL or not starting a revolt against their superiors? I dunno, it just looks like Germany trying to assuage their guilt. Get over it.


This.
 
2013-04-11 08:09:47 AM
Going after 90 year old men on their deathbed that  were teenage low-ranking soliders at the time probably won't be extremely helpful.  Can we consider eventually forgiving in some cases?

How about starting by asking for honestly documented details like the path taken in Rwanda.

/Yes, this will not be enough for some.
 
2013-04-11 08:11:48 AM
Aren't they all dead by now? There must be a better way to spend this time and money than prosecuting dead people.
 
2013-04-11 08:13:16 AM

PsiChi: Crimes of this magnitude should be pursued to the ends of the earth.  The fact that tptb are using this for their own nefarious purposes is just the way they roll.  Jerusalem is to be the new world capital.


Before it gets nuke in order to herald in the new age.
 
2013-04-11 08:13:31 AM
Ahhhh gotta love the "well it happened a long time ago and they're old so we should just let it go" excuses.
 
2013-04-11 08:14:12 AM
What part of "Never Again" are folks not understanding?  I don't care if you were the latrine orderly, you were there and you are forever tainted.
 
2013-04-11 08:14:52 AM

miss diminutive: Well if that job title doesn't get you laid, nothing will.


I'm putting that on a business card now
 
2013-04-11 08:17:23 AM
the discussion then turns into a question over whether it's morally acceptable to try people who have to be carried in on stretchers into a courtroom

I'm OK with not carrying them. You can just kick them until they get up and walk.

At this rate, Bush will stand trial in oh, about 2069.
 
2013-04-11 08:18:16 AM
Some people just love to feel rightous.

I guess it's just too much effort to do something about gitmo, illegal renditions, warcrimes agains palestinians, the Iraq War II (specifically it's premise), lobbyism, twinkies going bust.

So yeah, lets stick it to the few remaining nazis, that have been too unimportant to persecute all these years.
 
2013-04-11 08:18:22 AM
pag1107
What part of "Never Again" are folks not understanding? I don't care if you were the latrine orderly, you were there and you are forever tainted.

Then isn't any German that didn't take up arms in against the brownshirts and hitler's party responsible for everyone of those deaths?

/That is the logic.
 
2013-04-11 08:18:32 AM
Mr. Zuroff of the Wiesenthal Center dismissed the idea of truth commissions. "It's good for countries where there's apartheid," Mr. Zuroff said. "Not where there's genocide."

Good call, looking forward to the truth commissions set up in Israel.
 
2013-04-11 08:19:16 AM
When will Obama be brought to justice for his crimes against the American people?
 
2013-04-11 08:20:10 AM

pag1107: What part of "Never Again" are folks not understanding?


How does that apply? You're worried that nearly dead men are going to go out Holocausting again?
 
2013-04-11 08:20:21 AM
if they want to bring Holocaust guards to trial for mass murder 70 years later can they also bring all the deniers like those behind  http://www.jewishterrorism.com/ to trial for mass stupidity now?
 
2013-04-11 08:21:04 AM
This is dumb. Really dumb. These guys all were obviously obscure enough for nobody to give a shiat about them until now.

It's been what, 70+ years? fark it. Who cares? Who woke up today and went, "Man, today is going to be ANOTHER shiatty day because I know for a fact that there's still a living conscripted Nazi out there." It's not even like they're trying to promote or sustain Nazism at all. They're pretty much dead already anyhow - why spend the resources to make a big deal and an "example" out of something nobody really gives a flying fark about anymore? Especially when the targets probably wouldn't even make it through the trial. Bonus points for the trial probably ending up more like a kangaroo court than an actual trial.
 
2013-04-11 08:21:41 AM
Convicting someone in their 80s for these crimes is not the same thing as convicting a much younger person for common street crime. It should be obvious that they are not being convicted on that basis. I think these convictions are solely meant to send a message to historians and future generations that the crimes they were involved in were so heinous that humanity will neither forgive nor forget, and will in fact pursue the wrongdoers to their deathbeds if necessary.
 
2013-04-11 08:23:00 AM
Then aren't the Jews that were forced to aid in the German war effort (in factories) also responsible by not refusing to work?

/They were just following orders.
 
2013-04-11 08:23:00 AM
What'll Israel do when it needs another PR boost and all the Nazis are dead by then?
 
2013-04-11 08:25:03 AM

TV's Vinnie: What'll Israel do when it needs another PR boost and all the Nazis are dead by then?


Sins of the Father.

Try their children.
 
2013-04-11 08:26:36 AM

vudukungfu: At this rate, Bush will stand trial in oh, about 2069.


Bush would face justice much sooner.  You're thinking every soldier under his command on trial in 2069, right down to the guy who cuts hair at Fort Blanda.
 
2013-04-11 08:28:28 AM

Bungles: TV's Vinnie: What'll Israel do when it needs another PR boost and all the Nazis are dead by then?

Sins of the Father.

Try their children.


+1

/Made me chuckle
 
2013-04-11 08:28:31 AM

doglover: HotWingConspiracy: Mr. Demjanjuk was found guilty even though he was not directly linked to any specific crime. Instead the court, in Munich, ruled that his work as a guard at the camp automatically made him an accessory to any murders carried out there. It convicted him of being an accessory to the murder of all 28,060 people who died at the camp during his tenure as a guard there.

Riiiiight. Really scraping the bottom of the barrel here.

I feel like a ghoul for asking but what was his defense layer's name?


There are a ton of scummy lawyers.  No question.  But everyone, EVERYONE, deserves a legal defense.  For all we know this guy was forced into the job and spent his time sweeping floors and sneaking food to the prisoners.  But he was convicted.

He's guilty; I hope they hang him.  But trial with a legal defense against accusations is a bed rock of civilization.  A right those poor victims were denied.  We don't honor them by doing the same to other people.
 
2013-04-11 08:28:51 AM

Rude Turnip: I think these convictions are solely meant to send a message to historians and future generations that the crimes they were involved in were so heinous that humanity will neither forgive nor forget, and will in fact pursue the wrongdoers to their deathbeds if necessary.


I think it's been sufficiently pounded into our heads that the Holocaust was a bad thing. I think we get it.
 
2013-04-11 08:29:29 AM
Well, we can't seem to bring any of societies current criminals to justice,

I suppose the next best thing is to spend our resources chasing down and destroying an enemy we already defeated 65 years ago
 
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