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(Huffington Post)   North Carolina: "We must lift the ban on religion in public places" Constituent: "So then would you support Islamic prayers being said before meetings?". Legislator: "Of course not, that would be terrorism"   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 153
    More: Asinine, Muslim prayers, Michele Presnell, North Carolina, Islamic, News & Observer, Carl Paladino, Congressional Progressive Caucus, establishment of religion  
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15037 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Apr 2013 at 6:13 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2013-04-10 08:21:56 PM  
12 votes:
FTA: "The North Carolina measure responds to the ACLU suit by declaring that each state is "sovereign" and no federal court can prevent a state from "from making laws respecting an establishment of religion." "

Ummmm, isn't accepting the US Constitution a condition of becoming one of the United States?
2013-04-10 09:06:41 PM  
9 votes:
Here are your choices:

1. None of the religions in public spaces.

2. All of the religions in public spaces.
2013-04-11 07:50:02 AM  
8 votes:

cman: AdolfOliverPanties: [i.huffpost.com image 570x238]

And yet she is still somehow uglier on the inside.

/They may be gnarled and yellowed, but she has a full compliment of teeth, unlike most of her constituency.

She looks English

iats not just the teeth that gave her away. It is her facial features


Can I just threadshiat for a second

I am SO bored of the "English have bad teeth" stereotype .. at leat we farking have teeth and not a row of brilliantine gravestones that look completely farking creepy.

You Yanks are so obsessed with manufactured beauty.. Hair, tits, teeth everything that can be man made are the bits you look at.. for god's sake we wouldn't even have plastic surgery if it wasn't for your insane idea that nature can be improved upon.. that a wrinkle is an abomination .. your porn sucks because of all this which is obviously a shame.

And don't get me started on the "English are emotionally underdeveloped like farking Hugh Grant!" .. Coming from a Country that pumps out films with people being shot in the face but woooahh nelly! if someone gets their tits out.

In conclusion.. You all spend stupid money making your teeth look like that AND THEN THINK IT'S NORMAL... Jesus, I bet it's the same logic that makes everyone put jackets on their dogs these days!
2013-04-11 06:47:28 AM  
8 votes:
One of my fondest dreams is to learn to say the Lord's Prayer in the original Aramaic, or even just Hebrew - you know, just like Jesus would do.

And then go to a local school board meeting, ask if I can say a prayer before we start, and see how long it takes before I have to switch to english to yell "DON'T TASE ME BRO!"
2013-04-11 02:25:41 AM  
8 votes:
The fact that this woman is an elected official and has any sort of power or influence at all is incredibly disturbing.
2013-04-10 09:10:34 PM  
8 votes:
Just today I was thinking

If you told the average American that a political candidate's religion was
A middle Eastern religion that believe that all people were evil and that they long. for the day that their deity destroyed the world and the people in it except for their fellow believers, that young children who died would spend eternity being tortured unless they had undergone a magical ritual.

Would the average American vote for that candidate?
2013-04-10 07:52:00 PM  
8 votes:
I couldn't even make it past this farking picture without laughing.

i.huffpost.com

"No, I do not condone terrorism," Presnell responded, according to the report. "We just need to start taking a stand on our religious freedom or it will be whisked away from us."

The only "religious freedom" you want is the freedom to get rid of every other religion except yours, you coont.
2013-04-10 07:45:31 PM  
8 votes:
How the f*ck are these people not bagging sh*t at a CVS cash register?
2013-04-11 07:59:56 AM  
6 votes:
Religion is like guns and penises.
It's OK to have one.
It's OK to be proud of it.
Don't whip it out and wave it around at a polling place, a legislature, a school, a bank, the mall, etc. etc.
2013-04-11 06:42:59 AM  
6 votes:
GOPmerica: Where "Freedom of Religion" really only means "freedom to be fundamentalist and jesusy" along with "Freedom for jesusy people to persecute non jesusy people"

Sorry assholes, your stone aged semitic sky worship can die in a farking fire.
2013-04-10 08:22:03 PM  
6 votes:

scottydoesntknow: The only "religious freedom" you want is the freedom to get rid of every other religion except yours, you coont.


Well said. Sad that she doesn't even see the irony in saying we need to protect religious freedom in the same breath she is condemning a religion.  How is it that our Founding Fathers were so on-the-ball about this stuff but we've regressed into stupid Christian bullshiat?
2013-04-10 08:27:21 PM  
5 votes:
Well, she's right. Muslim prayers have no business being part of official government functions.

Nor do any other religion's prayers.
2013-04-10 07:52:23 PM  
5 votes:

Nadie_AZ: If the Republican Party hopes to reach out to minority groups, it must clearly and forcefully repudiate such bigoted comments by its representatives," the group's National Legislative Director Corey Saylor said in a statement.

I'm just not seeing this happen.


It won't, mainly because bigotry is one of the GOP's core values.
2013-04-11 09:58:18 AM  
4 votes:
A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, world views, and customs. Since atheists aren't organized and merely share one common lack of belief, I don't see how they qualify, even if you consider that some of them write books or make jokes that others read or laugh at. You may disagree with the way atheists express their opinions but that does not mean you can invent new definitions for existing words to classify them with.
2013-04-11 08:19:48 AM  
4 votes:

Silverstaff: They have even adopted symbols to define their belief system:


The Darwin fish was created during the height of the 'teach the controversy' nonsense as a way to show support for science education. It has nothing to do with Atheism. If you think that evolution is an atheist idea then you are dead wrong. It's a scientific fact*.

*Please please please don't be one of those 'It's only a theory' mouth breathers.
2013-04-11 07:20:46 AM  
4 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: Outreach!


That's the hilarious part for me... These farking ass-backwards morons in the GOP just can't help themselves.

"Why won't you terrorist-loving, lazy, shiftless, criminals, who want nothing but handouts and drugs vote for Republicans?"

"...And what's up with these wetbacks? Why won't they support us? Just because we want to deport you en masse and shoot you doesn't mean you can't vote for us!"

"Don't even get me started on the queers wanting 'special ' rights... Those deviants should be flocking to the GOP."


The GOP doesn't get it, and they never will.
2013-04-11 07:19:44 AM  
4 votes:

lewismarktwo: Sure in theory 'Atheism' is the mere lack of belief, but in practice you get a lot of intolerant assholes forcing their views (which can never be proven, making them a species of belief) on others.


Is this an education system thing, where you think schools teaching science is "atheists forcing their views on others", but teaching jesusy creationism is "freedom".
2013-04-11 06:55:29 AM  
4 votes:

abb3w: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Atheism is a belief system, not a religion.

More pedantically, a class of belief systems, including Randite Capitalism and Marxist Communism... neither of which is the Techno-Scientific Progressive Secular Humanist et cetera cluster that's currently prevalent in the West.


You're both wrong. Atheism is the absence of faith in gods. It's not a faith system or a philosophy or ideology or anything else.
2013-04-10 08:31:54 PM  
4 votes:

spongeboob: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Since we don't want to pray to terror gods, could an atheist lead a group chant thanking the building inspector for providing a well functioning place of meeting?

I guess in order to allow that, atheist would have to admit that atheism is a religion.  I don't think any atheist will admit that.


Atheism is a belief system, not a religion.

When presented with a binary option (Is there at least one higher power that can be considered god-like?), the atheists look at existing observations and believe that there is no further explanation. Theists look at the same observations and believe that a higher authority is responsible for the complexity of life. Both are equally supported by philosophy. Atheists simply believe that the null hypothesis (ie no evidence suggesting a god has interacted with creation) is the standard. It's not a religion.

There. Now that's settled. We can stay on the topic of making fun of North Carolina.
2013-04-10 07:59:38 PM  
4 votes:
i.huffpost.com

And yet she is still somehow uglier on the inside.

/They may be gnarled and yellowed, but she has a full compliment of teeth, unlike most of her constituency.
2013-04-10 07:56:36 PM  
4 votes:
On the plus side I would love to see the battle between different sects of Christianity to be the official state religion.
2013-04-11 11:57:31 AM  
3 votes:

Silverstaff: When I say "Atheist" I'm meaning the people who go out and try to actively convince people there is no such thing as God and that they are bad people for believing this.


We all understand that you are intentionally misusing the word "Atheist". We just want to know why.
2013-04-11 11:43:11 AM  
3 votes:
Since this conversation has gone a askew, I would like to remind everyone that an elected official wants to bar a specific religion's prayer in the name of religious freedom.

You couldn't make this shat up.
2013-04-11 08:57:35 AM  
3 votes:

Crewmannumber6: Egoy3k: Crewmannumber6: Mrfusticle: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 500x598]

So you're not counting Marx, Mao, Lenin and Stalin as athiest extremists?

They were extremists and some of them may have been Atheist (Marx was definitely not an Atheist) but they were not Atheist extremists. Their actions were not a result of extreme in atheism (which is  not really a thing anyway the same as a number more zero than zero isn't a thing) and their goals were not to spread atheism.

I'm not being a troll here, just ignorant. I thought one of the goals of communism was to create a society with out God. If I'm wrong please enlighten me.


Bear with me I'm going from  memory and some more intelligent farker might need to correct me.There is a a line in Marx's writing that is commonly quoted as, "Religion is the opiate of the masses" It's been continually quoted out of context and misunderstood since the book was written. What Marx was trying to say was that religion makes people who have shiatty lives feel better about their life. The goal of the perfect sate (communism in his opinion) should be to remove the NEED for religion. In other words people should be so happy and content that they don't need religion to make them feel better. The problem is communism sucks and people were miserable.  In order to have political power (and thus any real prospects for employment) you needed to be a party member in good standing. Going to church was a sign of malcontent and pretty much a death sentence for your life as a party member.

Some states went even further in attempts to prove their systems validity and outlawed religion. For some reason communism has a real inferiority complex and needs to show the world how perfect their 'radiant future' is. So basically instead of actually fixing their problems they just outlawed people from acting as if there were problems.
2013-04-11 08:26:26 AM  
3 votes:

dickfreckle: Uncle Tractor: abb3w: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Atheism is a belief system, not a religion.

More pedantically, a class of belief systems, including Randite Capitalism and Marxist Communism... neither of which is the Techno-Scientific Progressive Secular Humanist et cetera cluster that's currently prevalent in the West.

You're both wrong. Atheism is the absence of faith in gods. It's not a faith system or a philosophy or ideology or anything else.

Some Farker once said that atheism is a religion in the same way that NOT collecting stamps is a hobby.


I completely agree that there are a good number of people - I'm willing to bet the overwhelming majority are teenagers in the midst of their "you can't tell me what to do" phase, because I certainly went through it - that are the r/atheism type that think it's all about telling someone off on their Facebook page because they posted something with the word "blessed".  Or waiting for the moment when they sneeze, someone says "bless you", and they use that as their casus belli to go on an anti-religious rant.

I get severely annoyed by those people.  But those people aren't the ones that are trying to pass laws that make people's lives worse off.

I'm a realist.  My mother was an ordained minister, Disciples of Christ.  Perhaps it's because they weren't fire-eating Baptists or guilt-laden Catholics that I've never really had a problem with the existence of Christians.  They're always going to be there, and there's always a chance someone might want to say Grace before dinner.  I just quietly sit there and let them have their moment, while I make sure the proper amount of butter is on my hushpuppy.  I just want to make sure they aren't doing anything that infringes upon my rights or those of everyone else - like not being able to buy beer before noon on Sunday, or making sure responsible sex education is taught in our school system, or repealing a bullshiat amendment to the state constitution prohibiting certain people from getting married.

The people who look at the "I'm an atheist" attention whores and think they need to take the time to biatch about them before doing something about the actual Dominionists trying to ruin our nice things?  I think that falls into the "I'm glad you've found a way to feel superior to both" category.  And bless their hearts.
2013-04-11 08:14:58 AM  
3 votes:

Silverstaff: If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's a duck. You've got symbols, texts defining your beliefs, places where you congregate to share your beliefs, groups of people of like belief who gather together out of this belief, rites and rituals performed by these people in these places, and symbols to define and publicly proclaim your beliefs with, and have even had violent militants.


I don't engage in any of this and I'm an atheist.

Sorry, the evidence is clear that atheism is a religion

Evidence like a comedian performing an "unbaptism".
2013-04-11 07:58:32 AM  
3 votes:

spyderqueen: I always liked that, for the majority of Japan, their relationship to religion is basically "eh, it's where ritual comes from" and they do the Shinto rituals for birth (and luck) and the Christian ones for marriage and the Buddhist ones for death, but never really think of it past "that thing you do for X event"


Eh. Most westerners who self identify as religious are only in it for the ritual as well, hell I'd go so far as to say most priests, deacons, ministers etc are in it for the ritual rather than a actual belief in a personal god. The thing is they like and even feel that they need the ritual in their life and in order to get it they need to keep up the pretense that they believe in magic.
2013-04-11 07:49:30 AM  
3 votes:

spyderqueen: mamoru: lucksi: Is there any country where I can get some freedom FROM religion?

I've lived in and visited a few countries around the world, and so far I have to say that, as an atheist, Japan has been the most comfortable for my lack of belief. This is having lived in the US (various places all over the east coast), Japan, Morocco, and now Thailand, as well as visiting England, France, Spain, Malaysia, and Indonesia. The only country I've lived in where anyone has made an issue of my lack of belief, trying to "save" me or damning me to hell, was the USA. Even in Morocco, a Muslim country, no one really cared that I was an atheist. I had several conversations that went something like this:

Moroccan: "Can I ask, are you a Christian?"
Me: "Nope. I'm not religious."
Moroccan: "Ever thought about converting to Islam?"
Me: "Nope."
Moroccan: "Do you believe in God?"
Me: "Nope. Sorry." (expecting that it might bother that person)
Moroccan: "Ah, no problem. So... hungry?"
Me: "Sure. I could use something to eat."
Moroccan: "Me, too. Let's go get some food."

But I digress.

There may be places better than Japan for an atheist to live, but if you like Japanese food, modern conveniences, great public transport, Japanese women, etc. or are interested in Japanese culture, then I highly recommend it. ;)


I always liked that, for the majority of Japan, their relationship to religion is basically "eh, it's where ritual comes from" and they do the Shinto rituals for birth (and luck) and the Christian ones for marriage and the Buddhist ones for death, but never really think of it past "that thing you do for X event"


A lot of this comes from American post-war efforts to demilitarize Shinto, which had been heavily appropriated for politico-military use.  Take a look at the 1945 'Directive for the Disestablishment of State Shinto"; it was the roadmap for removing religion as an instrument of nationalism in Japan.
2013-04-11 07:48:16 AM  
3 votes:

TheGregiss: The only thing more annoying than an evangelical christian is an evangelical atheist.

Stop trying to shove your beliefs onto other people.


And the only thing more annoying than either of them are people who mistake "you can't systematically use government to force your religion on people" as "atheists forcing their beliefs on poor innocent jesusy folks"

Congrats.
2013-04-11 01:45:50 AM  
3 votes:
I especially like the part where, in a very few sentences she says "We just need to start taking a stand on our religious freedom or it will be whisked away from us." seconds after she said that allowing Muslim prayer is supporting terrorism. Have legislators always been this ignorant, or is it just because of the Internet that we hear about it?
2013-04-11 12:22:01 AM  
3 votes:

spongeboob: On the plus side I would love to see the battle between different sects of Christianity to be the official state religion.

i.imgur.com
Roman Catholics strangling and roasting Dutch Mennonites in 1554.


i.imgur.com

French Protestants liberating the entrails of Catholics in 1607.


Yeah....we've seen that movie before and *Spoiler Alert*: It doesn't end well.
2013-04-10 08:44:19 PM  
3 votes:

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Atheism is a belief system, not a religion.


More pedantically, a class of belief systems, including Randite Capitalism and Marxist Communism... neither of which is the Techno-Scientific Progressive Secular Humanist et cetera cluster that's currently prevalent in the West.
2013-04-10 08:40:06 PM  
3 votes:

spongeboob: I guess in order to allow that, atheist would have to admit that atheism is a religion. I don't think any atheist will admit that.


Is that like "admitting" that rain falls up?
2013-04-10 07:53:10 PM  
3 votes:

NewportBarGuy: How the f*ck are these people not bagging sh*t at a CVS cash register?


CVS  has standards.
2013-04-11 12:07:47 PM  
2 votes:

Silverstaff: All I've been saying this whole thread is that Atheism is a religion, because it has adopted the trappings of it.  From trying to evangelize others to your beliefs about God while holding that they are inherently wrong for believing what the do, to using symbols to sum up your beliefs, to having books that belief, to holding public meetings about that belief, to holding ceremonies and rites related to that belief.  That isn't just not believing in God, that's a whole lifestyle and belief system advocating that not only is there not a God, that nobody should believe in Him and that must be spread.


So you would consider that Apple Inc is a religion then?

-trying to evangelize other? check
-believing that others are inherently wrong? check
-using symbols to sum up beliefs? check
-public meetings? check
-ceremonies and rites, like the annual line-up outside the Apple store? check

As an added bonus - Apple also passes around the collection plate and has a central god-like leader.
2013-04-11 11:57:44 AM  
2 votes:

impaler: Since this conversation has gone a askew, I would like to remind everyone that an elected official wants to bar a specific religion's prayer in the name of religious freedom.

You couldn't make this shat up.


The funny part is that she honestly, truly, does not comprehend the innate hypocrisy of her statements, because, after all, only her religion is the One True Religion. She is what you get when you have mindless belief without critical thinking.

And she's an elected official. A majority of folks in her constituency said, "yes, that's what we need - a conservative Christian moron!"
2013-04-11 10:52:06 AM  
2 votes:

Joe Blowme: Langdon_777: She (and this thread) probably need to watch this:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/sci-tech/cern-physicist-tom-whynti e- explains-the-universe-for-beginners/story-fn5fsgyc-1226618422049

So where did all that energy come from? Was it always there? Did zeus put it there? Who put zeus there?
Im going with Thor having a temper tantrum


We don't know. More importantly, it is unlikely that we will ever have any way of knowing. That doesn't mean we need to invent a deity to create it.

And as an atheist, don't have any problem with theists who say "God created the energy". Fine. I can't disprove that. I don't choose to believe it, but if someone wants to it's no biggie.

The problem is when they go on to describe a bunch of other things that God does that are provably false, and then try to dictate how I should live my life on the basis of their belief system.
2013-04-11 10:28:29 AM  
2 votes:

Silverstaff: Karac: Silverstaff: Why the hell is it that when I call atheists on their derp, on their acting like they are religious while doing all the things that religions do, I get called a troll?

Maybe because I've yet to see an atheist tell me that my gay buddies aren't allowed to get so much as a second-class civil union OR tell me that I can't go to Walmart and buy a hammer after getting out of church on Sunday because it's not 1:30 in the afternoon yet.

Even the most militant atheists I've ever seen are only calling on the government to live up to it's own promise of not establishing a state religion.

What about atheists who say everyone who disagrees with them is deluded and mentally ill?  That's Dawkins big act, to mock theistic belief systems and say that everybody who believes otherwise is deluded.  I've encountered a lot of atheists on the web who say that belief in God should be considered a mental illness and they hope one day to have a cure for it, to make people stop believing in God and become an Atheist.  That's every bit as evangelizing as those annoying Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, or the Southern Baptists who scream that you're going to hell.

What about atheists who filed lawsuits against the Federal Government because astronauts were so moved by the sight of the Earth from space that they spontaneously said a prayer out loud, and wanted Astronauts from being banned from prayer during spaceflight?  Madeline Murray O'Hare did that one back in the Apollo era.

As for militant atheists, if you'll check that link I posted, back in the 1920's through 1940's there was indeed a "League of Militant Atheists" who went around demolishing churches, imprisoning clergy, and working towards an avowed goal of the eradication of all religion.  Yes, they were an arm of the government of the Soviet Union, but that doesn't mean they were not atheists who were militant to the desire to crush theism and oppress people because they believed differently.


Most of that sounds like backlash for centuries of Christians trying to shove their beliefs and way of life down everyone else's throats.

As far as religious folks possibly being mentally ill goes, there's a strange phenomenon that happens when some religious people start talking about God; they get this strange look in their eyes, and their voice gets slow and steady, either like A) they've been brainwashed and are spouting out a pre-recorded message, B) they're trying to hypnotize you, or C) possibly both. This is probably part of the reason some atheists think religious people are crazy. (to be fair, it's probably an adrenal reaction that comes from talking about something that's exciting and important, but that usually makes people talk quickly, not slow and steady...)

Not to mention the sever cognitive dissonance necessary to decry one religion as terrorism and that it shouldn't be allowed, then in the next sentence saying we need to "protect our religious freedoms". Which is what this whole thread is about. It's hard to play the "atheists are bad and think we're all crazy" card when the topic of discussion is about a christian who thinks the first amendment doesn't apply to her and her state, then turns around and absolutely proves why the "no establishment" clause is necessary, and is none the wiser.
2013-04-11 10:25:26 AM  
2 votes:

Silverstaff: Just like somebody who has never been exposed to religion in their life is not an atheist, they just lack any kind of belief system.


That is an accurate description of an atheist.
2013-04-11 09:53:23 AM  
2 votes:

Silverstaff: Nice strawman you're trying to build of what I said.

I listed symbols as the last thing on a long list of things that atheists have been doing that have taken atheism from simply not believing in God to a complete belief system/religion.


Pointing out the flaws in your argument isn't a strawman.  Basically you've used a few individual anecdotes (like a comedian performing an unbaptism) and defined a non-belief as a religion.  I'm sorry but you look silly.   Also writing a book offering a logical criticism against religion doesn't make it a "dogmatic religious text".  Just like writing a book skeptical of Bigfoot doesn't make it a religion of anti-Bigfoot.
2013-04-11 09:25:21 AM  
2 votes:

oeneus: This is why: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening. And many would argue that we are currently experiencing the third great awakening. Certainly enough derp going around to support it.


Except church attendance is way down compared to previous generations/eras. It more about the fact that the religious are becoming less powerful, and so the derp is getting turned up to 11. The social conservatives have lost pretty much every cultural battle for the last 50 to 100 years. Starting with women's suffrage, then civil rights, the sexual liberation of the 60s/70s, and now acceptance of homosexuals. And they've driven more and more people away, so what you have left is a core of fundamentalists.
2013-04-11 08:30:38 AM  
2 votes:

ph0rk: jso2897: ph0rk: Silverstaff: Sorry, the evidence is clear that atheism is a religion

It appears more likely that the belief that atheism is a religion is itself a religion.

Why even argue the point? I'm content to allow others to tell themselves whatever story regarding my faith or lack thereof that gives them comfort. It doesn't actually change anything, you know.

On Fark? Because Fark. In Real Life(tm), "atheism is a religion" is only a poorly digested talking point, and if you press them on it most folks will give it up.


I'm not required to correct every foolish thing some fool believs, especially when it's not germain to the point under discussion. I don't want the leader of , say, my city council to start every session by proclaiming that there is no god, and that religion is bunk - nor do I want him leading it off with a prayer to some god or other - and that's the issue raised by TFA.
2013-04-11 08:26:28 AM  
2 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: jso2897: HotWingConspiracy: Silverstaff: If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's a duck. You've got symbols, texts defining your beliefs, places where you congregate to share your beliefs, groups of people of like belief who gather together out of this belief, rites and rituals performed by these people in these places, and symbols to define and publicly proclaim your beliefs with, and have even had violent militants.

I don't engage in any of this and I'm an atheist.

Sorry, the evidence is clear that atheism is a religion

Evidence like a comedian performing an "unbaptism".

Well, suppose it is. Are you asking that public officials should get up before a public assembly and affirmatively state that there is no god? Is anybody asking for that?

I'm not asking anyone for anything.


I didn't think so - I was just checking. See, the problem with this lady isn't what she believes - it's that she wants the state to affirmatively certify her personal beliefs as officially correct.
2013-04-11 08:05:12 AM  
2 votes:

Langdon_777: Joce678: What do we expect from a government who recently adopted "In God we trust" as a motto?

Is anybody under any illusion about which deity they were thinking of when they adopted that?

Lucifer?


If you put "God" on a currency, surely it is natural to assume the God referred to is Mammon?
2013-04-11 07:54:19 AM  
2 votes:
http://igg.me/at/webackmac38/x/2513157

The above link takes you to an Indiegogo fundraiser for my anticipated 2014 campaign seeking election to North Carolina's House of Representatives.  In 2010 the GOP gained a majority in both houses of our state legislature, just in time to gerrymander legislative districts and solidify their position.  Now, as you can see, they're striving to make their ideology our law.

Wherever your views on the political system may lie, I hope you'll agree that no law should be based on someone else's morals.  The type of overreach taking place here undermines faith in our system... and if it can happen here today, it can happen anywhere tomorrow.  So if you're asking yourself "Why should I care?  I don't live in North Carolina," keep in mind that until a very short time ago, this was seen as a solid blue state when it came to state government and elections.  The issues at stake here are all too real, and the time for action - action restoring a practical, pragmatic, forward thinking, common sense approach to government - has come.  It's time for common sense to trump nonsense.

The odds are against me.  My opposition has a huge money advantage, and Republicans outspent Democrats by a 2-to-1+ margin statewide last year.  So anything you could do to help financially would be appreciated.  A contribution would give our effort a tremendous boost, raising the initial funds we'll need to launch a competitive, informative campaign.
2013-04-11 07:50:53 AM  
2 votes:

lewismarktwo: jso2897: neongoats: lewismarktwo: Sure in theory 'Atheism' is the mere lack of belief, but in practice you get a lot of intolerant assholes forcing their views (which can never be proven, making them a species of belief) on others.

Is this an education system thing, where you think schools teaching science is "atheists forcing their views on others", but teaching jesusy creationism is "freedom".

No. He just wants to cry about people he secretly suspects are smarter than he is.

Smart atheists know when someone is baiting them, but I forgive you, just like Jesus Christ will forgive your sins if you accept him into your heart.


Well, I'm no master baiter, that's for sure. But the last I heard from Jesus, he told his followers to go practice their religion in private - so I have to assume that anyone who publicly trumpets that they are a "Christian" isn't a very good one.
By the way - your remarks indicate that you think I am an "atheist" (whatever that means) - is there some reason you think that? Or is it just an assumption you make abouit anyone who is amused by the spectacle of so-called "Christians" waving their alleged faith around in public like some flasher waving his dick?
2013-04-11 07:47:44 AM  
2 votes:

TheGregiss: The only thing more annoying than an evangelical christian is an evangelical atheist.

Stop trying to shove your beliefs onto other people.


I'm trying to parse this in a way that makes sense, and not finding a way.
2013-04-11 07:40:50 AM  
2 votes:

Alphax: And you claim this, why?


Because of the roving gangs of atheists who bust into churches during services, tear the mike out of the pastor's hands and launch into a Henry Rollins-esque diatribe until everyone in the building stops believing in Jesus. They're all over the place, these atheists, forcing other people to listen to them.
2013-04-11 07:30:29 AM  
2 votes:

Joce678: What do we expect from a government who recently adopted "In God we trust" as a motto?

Is anybody under any illusion about which deity they were thinking of when they adopted that?


I'm trying to think of a religion that embodies the disparate concepts of "detached from humanity", "armchair warrior", "greed", "hate", "hypocrite", "ignorant", and "convinced of their own infallibility", but amazingly, the Christians created for themselves something unique and special in human history.

Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul put together might equate to U.S. fundamentalists. We just need Cyric to slay jesus and take over his portfolio.
2013-04-11 07:12:17 AM  
2 votes:

neongoats: GOPmerica: Where "Freedom of Religion" really only means "freedom to be fundamentalist and jesusy" along with "Freedom for jesusy people to persecute non jesusy people"


And, of course, by "jesusy" they really mean "bearing absolutely no resemblance to Jesus Christ or anything he ever stood for; in fact, almost completely the exact opposite!"...

/If only more so-called Christians actually followed the teachings of Jesus, we'd all be a whole lot better off...
2013-04-11 07:07:02 AM  
2 votes:

Uncle Tractor: abb3w: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Atheism is a belief system, not a religion.

More pedantically, a class of belief systems, including Randite Capitalism and Marxist Communism... neither of which is the Techno-Scientific Progressive Secular Humanist et cetera cluster that's currently prevalent in the West.

You're both wrong. Atheism is the absence of faith in gods. It's not a faith system or a philosophy or ideology or anything else.


This cannot be repeated enough. Lack of belief in god(s) isn't a religion. Thats just the HURP!! strawman assholes use to try to justify their obeisance to stone age superstition.

Take the bone out of your noses, you primitive, savage farks.
2013-04-11 06:43:26 AM  
2 votes:
Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."

See that line, fellow Christians? The United States is not God's Kingdom on Earth. We can't run it like it is because we will invariably screw it up.

Just stop trying to legislate people into conversion, it has the opposite effect.
2013-04-11 06:42:34 AM  
2 votes:
TFA
The North Carolina measure responds to the ACLU suit by declaring that each state is "sovereign" and no federal court can prevent a state from "from making laws respecting an establishment of religion." Though Warren, one of the bill's authors, told HuffPost Live that the measure was not seeking to create a state religion, the drafted legislation would clearly allow for such an action.

upload.wikimedia.org
Disagrees
2013-04-11 02:30:20 AM  
2 votes:

This About That: Have legislators always been this ignorant, or is it just because of the Internet that we hear about it?


I think people have always had the potential to be this ignorant, but the internet (and cable news networks) make it sooo easy. Used to be if you wanted to keep up with current events, you couldn't help but be exposed to outside views and different ideas and the like. Nowadays all this gal has to do is turn on Fox News, bring up FreeRepublic, and relax in her nice closed loop of derp. Because who likes to hear evidence that their existing ideas might be wrong?

/Perhaps a mod could baleet my html fail?
2013-04-11 02:19:09 AM  
2 votes:
It's not just her rock-stupid ignorance of the Constitution and the concept of Freedom of Religion.
It's not just her cognitive dissonance that, properly harvested, could lower electricity prices to one cent per kilowatt decade.
It's that she apparently looked at a photo of Calista Gingrich and thought "Style Icon to Emulate" instead of "AIIEEEE! IT HUNGERS FOR SOULS"
2013-04-11 12:02:36 AM  
2 votes:
This is a state that used to allow a12 year old  girl to get  married iffn she was pregnant.
Really.
2013-04-10 09:36:31 PM  
2 votes:

spongeboob: Just today I was thinking

If you told the average American that a political candidate's religion was
A middle Eastern religion that believe that all people were evil and that they long. for the day that their deity destroyed the world and the people in it except for their fellow believers, that young children who died would spend eternity being tortured unless they had undergone a magical ritual.

Would the average American vote for that candidate?


And it is based on a group requiring male members to lop off part of their .. well... member.
2013-04-10 08:34:46 PM  
2 votes:

spongeboob: I don't think any atheist will admit that.


A real head scratcher, that.
2013-04-10 08:14:28 PM  
2 votes:
Screw you, subby. If you're going to outright lie about what someone says, at least make it f...


Holy shiat.

Sorry, subby.
2013-04-10 08:02:46 PM  
2 votes:

b0rscht: scottydoesntknow: I couldn't even make it past this farking picture without laughing.

[i.huffpost.com image 570x238]

DAMMIT beat me by less than a minute.

I said out loud "What the fark is that?" when I saw that picture. For realz.


I like your caption though, works perfectly. She's like one of those women you see in horror movies where from far away she looks like a sweet lady, but the closer you get the more hellish she looks. Until a demon erupts from her mouth and eats your face.
2013-04-10 07:57:01 PM  
2 votes:
Another uneducated bigoted politician?

Color me shocked
2013-04-12 12:43:56 AM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: No, I'm going by the definition in the Comparative Theology textbook I used in college.  Theology is a bit of a hobby of mine.

Religion is something that:
1. Describes the relationship between mankind and the sacred and divine.
2. Expresses that description through social interaction, practices, symbols, and other intellectual and cultural forms.
3. Provides a path of personal improvement or transformation.

Note that this does NOT include Apple as a religion, or a sports team as a religion, or the other strawmen thrown out in this thread, because none of them meet the first part of that description, since none discuss the relationship of humanity to the divine.  Atheists do discuss that relationship though, they deny it exists by denying the existence of the sacred and divine.


Could you define "sacred" and "divine" for us?

I think your confusion comes because the words "sacred" and "divine" mean something different to atheists than they do to theists. To a theist, "sacred" means something that has special meaning to God, and "divine" means something part of or connected to God.

To an atheist, "sacred" means something that has special meaning to a religious person because of their religion, and "divine" means something a religious person thinks comes from God.

So, despite using the same words, we are not actually talking about the same things. Therefore, the first part of your definition does not apply.

What superhuman being(s) do atheists worship anyway?
2013-04-11 10:45:03 PM  
1 votes:
i14.photobucket.com
2013-04-11 10:28:39 PM  
1 votes:

spongeboob: On the plus side I would love to see the battle between different sects of Christianity to be the official state religion.


If you really want to see heads asplode, make the official Christian religion Catholicism...
2013-04-11 07:56:30 PM  
1 votes:
Actually, I'm liking the path Silverstaff is mapping out...

The next time someone conflates athiesim with genocidal dictators, ask them about this:

i48.tinypic.com

It's almost like all atrocities *ARE* associated with religion after all.
2013-04-11 07:41:19 PM  
1 votes:
"I'm an Atheist because I believe God doesn't exist, not because I have a score to settle with him." - Adam Carolla
2013-04-11 06:06:44 PM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: (that Atheism as practiced in the modern day meets the definition of a religious belief system and practices)


By your intensely open and vague definition, just about any gathering of 3 people could be a religion.

Your kids softball team: meets all of your criteria.. RELIGION!
Stamp and coin collecting club: meets all of your criteria... RELIGION!
Tupperware party throwing old house biddy: meets all of your criteria... RELIGION!

Lacking a belief in something isn't a religion. No matter how many times you repeat yourself with big walls of texts, it doesn't make it so.

Your fervent, fiery eyed fundamentalism about how being atheist is a religion might be a religion though. I mean, you are believing false things intentionally. Passionately defending that belief, and insistent that you are being persecuted for your beliefs.
2013-04-11 05:33:28 PM  
1 votes:
img202.imageshack.us

Atheism is the antonym of religion.
2013-04-11 05:23:26 PM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: neongoats: Silverstaff: What about atheists who say everyone who disagrees with them is deluded and mentally ill?  That's Dawkins big act, to mock theistic belief systems and say that everybody who believes otherwise is deluded.

Hint: When anyone there you mentions starts putting forth legislation to ban your mammon worship, your points will be valid. Until then you are basically just saying "Hey, stop telling me I can't discriminate, that's discrimination!"

When did I say I worshiped mammon, or any specific deity?  I've said it before, go ahead, when have I ever claimed on Fark that I was a worshipper of the God of Abraham/Yahweh/Jehovah/Jesus/Allah ect?  I gave up organized, formal religion 16 years ago.

However, look on this very thread for plenty of examples of Atheist bigotry and hatred, and stereotyping.

Just because I have pointed out religious trappings in Atheism as currently practiced, noting that they rise to the definition of being a religion through their practices in how they've turned a simple denial of divinity into something more complicated, I've been:

1. Called a "primitive savage fark", by you.
2. Accused of worshipping mammon, by you.
3. Accused of blindly following Pat Robertson and other evangelists/fundamentalists, by Deathfrogg.
4. Accused of being a troll by many posters.

Just because I've made this argument, without me ever saying anything about being of any Abrahamic belief system.  That's all your own stereotyping and bigotry.  Try cleaning up your own behavior.  Not everybody who is fed up with self-righteous Atheists is a fundamentalist evangelical Christian, or of any mainstream religion.

If you keep insulting theists and other insults to religion, and stereotyping everyone of theistic belief as being Evangelical Christian Fundamentalists or "primitive savage farks" as you call it, you're going to be treated like you have an irrational hatred of theists.  Everything you've done in this thread has just backed up and supported my ...


Hint: all of your butthurt is irrelevant. I don't have to like you. I don't have to respect your religion, or lack of it. I don't give a shiat about you or your life.

What I do give a shiat about, is freedom. Freedom to think you are a dickhole, freedom to worship something, freedom to not worship something. You see, I'm not trying to legislate Christianity out of existence. I'm not trying to drive worshippers into the sea with fire and pitchforks.(amusing as that might be) And I'm not constantly trying to get hurpers to legislate my lack of religion into law.

Hint: if you want freedom for Jesus, you damn well better support freedom for Behelifet, freedom for Thor, freedom for Allah, and freedom for atheists to think all of the above are delusions. Anything less is unacceptable.

How can you even make your argument and not feel stupid.

Thread: hey bumpkins, stop trying to end run the Constitution and force Jesus as a state religion, k
you: but Atheists are mean to me, therefor it's cool
Thread: you can worship what you want, what you can't do is legislate it into law
you: but atheists are a religion, and they are MEAN so its ok to make jesusy stuff law
Thread: no, really, its not. Everyone should be free to worship as they wish, and not involve the government
you: but atheists are a religion and they keep saying mean things
Thread: but they aren't systematically stripping you of your civil rights, right?
you: doesn't matter, they were mean, therefor NC should make jesus compulsory
Thread: sorry, no
you: stop being mean
Thread: no
2013-04-11 04:49:20 PM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: What about atheists who say everyone who disagrees with them is deluded and mentally ill?  That's Dawkins big act, to mock theistic belief systems and say that everybody who believes otherwise is deluded.


Hint: When anyone there you mentions starts putting forth legislation to ban your mammon worship, your points will be valid. Until then you are basically just saying "Hey, stop telling me I can't discriminate, that's discrimination!"
2013-04-11 03:48:55 PM  
1 votes:

RobSeace: mrshowrules: I don't know or believe if a god exists or doesn't. I don't presume this to be necessarily knowable or unknowable. I don't map onto those quadrants.

I'm not sure how you can fail to map into one of those quadrants... You are obviously on the left agnostic axis... And, unless you actively believe in a god of some sort, I'd say you must also be on the top atheist axis, so you'd be an agnostic atheist as well... It doesn't really make any sense to say "Well I don't believe, but yet I don't not believe either!"... It's just a nonsense position... If you don't believe, you don't believe, simple as that... It's boolean...

I think you're confusing "does not believe any god exists" with an active belief in the non-existence of any gods, rather than merely the lack of active belief in the existence thereof... That would be more accurately stated as "believes no god exists"... Some atheists do indeed actively disbelieve, but that's not a requirement to be an atheist, merely the lack of theistic belief... Strengths of belief and lack thereof also vary among people... Some may very strongly believe no gods exist, while others weakly believe that, while others such as yourself don't really have an opinion at all...


I don't think belief is necessarily a "Boolean" value.   If you ask me if you are married, I will say that I don't know.  That question allows for a valid a neutral value.

Perhaps a Boolean value if you ask a more specific question.  Do you believe Jesus is God, who gave birth to himself and lives in the sky waiting for me in the afterlife, I would say no.  If you take a broadest possible concept of god(s).  It becomes difficult to pose the question and demand a straight yes or no answer.  In the broadest sense the question could be asked "Does life having meaning?"  The possibility of a higher meaning could in itself be interpreted as god.

At some point "I don't know" is more valid/honest than "yes" or "no".

Do you think there is any intelligent life on other planets?  "Yes", "No" or "I don't know" are all valid answers.

If you are more specific, I'm an atheist in all the religions i'm currently know about.  Otherwise, I'm a "I don't know" agnostic.   I plead ignorance but not because I lack courage.  I don't believe in an afterlife.
2013-04-11 03:24:29 PM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: When I say "Atheist" I'm meaning the people who go out and try to actively convince people there is no such thing as God and that they are bad people for believing this.


I see what you mean, of course. Strident, in-your-face people are just frigging annoying.

That said, atheists have put up a few billboards here and there. They have one radio show in Austin, TX. They occasionally get together in bars to talk about atheism. And there are a few prominent, outspoken atheists who go on talk shows and write books and give lectures. Nobody has to buy the books, listen to the shows, or sit next to them in the bars. Theists might have to see the billboards, but they can be comforted by the far greater prevalence of billboards about Jesus.

And most of the motivation for people to do those things -- write the books, give the lectures, and put up billboards -- is in response to the enormous amount of in-your-face religion out there. Door to door evangelists, billboards warning you about hell, TV channels full of preachers telling you what you must believe, and a legal system favoring religion over atheism in many subtle and not-so-subtle ways. At some point one feels compelled to stand up and say "hey, not everybody believes this, quit pretending it's universal truth".

 I used to not even care about this, but the steady stream of annoying people on the Internet telling me that I am mentally ill/immature/bad person for not being an Atheist has pretty steadily soured me on them.  Every time I see atheists adopting trappings of religion (church services, symbols) to describe their relationship with the divine (i.e. active disbelief).

Well, I don't really see "church" services of any kind associated with atheism, and as I mentioned before there are symbols and logos for everything out there from sports teams to software products to businesses. Branding just shows an attempt at organization. Just because atheists organize (which is rare) doesn't mean they are a religion, or even taking on the trappings of one.

It's like a guy I went to Basic Training with, who when it was Sunday morning and we all had the option of going to Church for 1 hour, he said his religion was Atheist so he demanded 1 hour to read his copy of The God Delusion.  We were all allowed one religious text, he kept Dawkins book in his wall locker under the "Religious Book" rule.  When we were allowed a moment of prayer before meals, he would recite the order of the planets or start to recite the periodic table when others were saying Christian prayers.  As the first person I had to deal with in my life, out there in the real word, who was openly atheist, he certainly made a point of replacing everything religious with an atheist equivalent.

Interesting. It seems like he could have been milking it for the benefits that accrue to the religious -- what would he be doing if he didn't get that hour? Peeling potatoes?

Silverstaff: Yes, I do what I do, out in the real world, because I want to help people.  I'm not out to convert anybody to any belief system, believe or don't believe, just follow Wheaton's Law and Don't Be a Dick about it.  A lot of Atheists are being dicks, and doing so in the exact same style as theistic fundamentalists.  That's what my problem really is with.


Cool. Let's agree that Don't Be a Dick is the important point. From there we can move on to Respect Other's Points of Views (Even While Politely Disagreeing with Them). I think we can all get along fine with that, and then hopefully you'll never have to use your gun.

I don't believe that theism is inherently destructive though. It certainly can be, part of why I no longer consider myself Christian came from what happened when I started asking too many theological questions at the Southern Baptist church I grew up at.  On the other hand, I've seen some wonderful things happen in the world because of faith-based communities and activity.

I used to believe that theism was inherently destructive. I don't any longer. I think part of that was residual reaction to being forced to attend church by my parents long after I had ceased to believe, combined with the hostility I got as a catholic kid at the Southern Baptist private school I attended for a few years.

At this point I have seen, like you, some really great things done by people of faith. I think in most cases they would do those things anyway, but their faith sustained them through trials and dark periods. I don't wish to take that away from anyone.

Theism is only destructive to those people when it leads them in unnatural directions -- self loathing as a sinner when actually you haven't done anything that harms anyone -- especially around issues of sexuality between consenting adults. Or when it leads people to ignore objective reality in favor of something they've been told is true.

Any belief system can be taken too far.  You don't want to be called a religion, okay, I can actually understand that, but a significant number of Atheists are going around acting like it is a religion while also denying that

Thanks. I totally understand what you are saying. I think the way I would express that is that some atheists are behaving the same way they condemn religious people for acting. We should all, as people, try to take the ethical high ground and respond as we wish to be treated, rather than responding in kind. i.e.:, work to create the environment we wish to live in.

Oh, and Zasteva, I missed your earlier post about the motivations and the apology for the snark relating to the middle ages.  I wanted to thank you for that.

No problem. Thanks for this polite and considered response!
2013-04-11 02:38:57 PM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: Don't want to be called a religion?  Stop acting like one.  Don't get in other peoples faces about it.  Don't publicly mock and insult them because they believe differently.


At least you admit this is what religious people do.
2013-04-11 02:33:03 PM  
1 votes:

ciberido: You're wrong. Agnosticism is the absence of faith in gods. Atheism is the certainty that gods do not exist. And, as I said earlier, it's a life stance, which does not make it a religion.


Not sure where you came up with that... Agnostic vs gnostic is an entirely separate issue from atheist vs. theist... The former is a question of knowledge/certainty, while the latter is an issue of belief... What you're describing as "atheism" is really "gnostic atheism"... Most of us are agnostic atheists...

i132.photobucket.com
2013-04-11 12:36:42 PM  
1 votes:

Hickory-smoked: That seems odd. Maybe it depends on where you are, but in my experience of the region, asking a guest in your home about religion or politics is only slightly less rude than shiatting in their handbag.


That's true in the US, where we are accustomed to living side-by-side with people who may have radically different views than we do.

But in many other countries, polite curiosity about a guest is a sign of respect. And in a country where most people never encounter someone from another religion, their curiosity is natural.

And, of course, there are always intellectuals in every place who are fascinated by ideas, and don't take things so personally, so they enjoy a good debate about something over a meal or a beer.

Never been to Morocco, but the Moroccan's I met in Spain seemed like pretty courteous people by nature.
2013-04-11 12:30:04 PM  
1 votes:

NewportBarGuy: How the f*ck are these people not bagging sh*t at a CVS cash register?


Because CVS requires a minimum level of intelligence.
kgf
2013-04-11 12:23:30 PM  
1 votes:
"We must lift the ban on MY religion in public places"

There, fixed that for her.
2013-04-11 12:19:08 PM  
1 votes:

This About That: I especially like the part where, in a very few sentences she says "We just need to start taking a stand on our religious freedom or it will be whisked away from us." seconds after she said that allowing Muslim prayer is supporting terrorism. Have legislators always been this ignorant, or is it just because of the Internet that we hear about it?



No, no, it makes perfect sense, so long as you understand that "freedom" is being used in that sentence to mean "the power to enforce our beliefs about religion on everybody else who lives here."
2013-04-11 12:15:12 PM  
1 votes:

UNC_Samurai: "Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."


Bear in mind that this was before modern anesthetics. Opium had a legitimate and necessary medical use.
2013-04-11 12:10:35 PM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: believe or don't believe, just follow Wheaton's Law and Don't Be a Dick about it.


If you are going to got through the trouble of creating an imaginary atheist who is acting like a dick you might want to imagine some behavior that actually makes him seem like dick. Your pretend atheist didn't do a damn thing wrong by pointing out the inherent hypocrisy of giving the religious special privileges. We don't give special privileges to people who hear voices or believe in aliens or any other beliefs without evidence unless they combine those beliefs with ritual that is equally nonsensical at which point they get put into a sphere of human behavior that we can't criticize. The world shouldn't work like that.
2013-04-11 11:31:16 AM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: All I've been saying this whole thread is that Atheism is a religion, because it has adopted the trappings of it.  From trying to evangelize others to your beliefs about God while holding that they are inherently wrong for believing what the do, to using symbols to sum up your beliefs, to having books that belief, to holding public meetings about that belief, to holding ceremonies and rites related to that belief.  That isn't just not believing in God, that's a whole lifestyle and belief system advocating that not only is there not a God, that nobody should believe in Him and that must be spread.


I and several others have attempted to explain why this is incorrect.

There is no "atheist lifestyle". There are no "ceremonies and rites" for atheism. Knowing that a particular definition of God that some theist holds is provably false is not the same as believing in a particular God.

Still don't get it? Explain to me how, under your definition of religion, are the GOP and Democratic Party not religions?
2013-04-11 10:57:57 AM  
1 votes:

ciberido: More specifically, atheism and religion are both life stances.


From your own link there can be 'life stances' based on atheism.

A lack of a belief is nothing more than that. Some people take it further ... the actions of these people do not change the base definition.
2013-04-11 10:29:52 AM  
1 votes:
scottydoesntknow:The only "religious freedom" you want is the freedom to get rid of every other religion except yours, you coont.

Bears repeating.jpg
2013-04-11 10:27:00 AM  
1 votes:

stonicus: Silverstaff: We have an Establishment Clause, Free Exercise and No Religious Test clauses in our Constitution for a reason, because our nation was founded by people who came here and wanted to worship as they chose without being told how to by others and our Founding Fathers were largely deists. The government should be completely silent on the issue of religion, neither endorsing any definition of God nor denying any specific definition.

Sadly, many interpret this to mean that you do in fact need to be worshipping something.


It could also be argued that a lot of people came to this country to escape the oppression of State Religions. Russians came to the United States by the tens of thousands in the 1870s and 1880s because the State religion was a primary instrument of the Czarists to maintain serfdom. Chinese came to the United States because the State religion was a primary instrument that maintained their Emperors rule.

On the flipside, the Puritans came to North America because they had been more or less thrown out of England for their constant subversion of parliamentary rule after their extremist Calvinism conflicted with the milder form of Christianity represented by the Anglican Church, who tolerated Catholicism to some degree, especially after the English Restoration in 1660.
2013-04-11 10:20:17 AM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: Why the  hell is it that when I call atheists on their derp, on their acting like they are religious while doing all the things that religions do, I get called a troll?


Okay. I'm going to take you seriously. I'll start by apologizing for my snarky "you've reached the middle ages" comment earlier.

I see from your profile that you describe yourself as a peace officer. I'm guessing that you have that job at least partly because you dislike criminal behavior and want help protect people from violence. I noticed you specifically mentioned that people sometimes call you a fascist  because of your job.

Atheists dislike theist behavior and want to protect people from the irrationality, harm and violence that often comes about from theist irrationality (this is not to say that atheists are always rational or non-violent).

When people tell us that we are just practicing our own religion, you are saying that we are theists. Since this is exactly the opposite of what we are, it's a little offensive to many of us. Just like many peace officers would be offended to be called fascists or violent criminals.

No, I'm not a troll.  Yes, that's what I believe.  Yes, there are atheists who aren't full-derp doing these things.  I find it amusing that I can say something, support it with evidence, and be called a troll because I disagree with the atheistic groupthink.

We understand it's what you believe. Most atheists prefer an evidence based approach to shaping our world-view, rather than a belief based one. The evidence for atheism as a religion that you've presented is flimsy and easily refuted (please see my earlier reply to your evidence).

I'd be happy to have a serious discussion with you about this and I promise to refrain from further snark.
2013-04-11 10:19:38 AM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: Just like somebody who has never been exposed to religion in their life is not an atheist, they just lack any kind of belief system.


This is incorrect. If they are "without god", as anyone who has never even heard of the concept would be, then they are atheist - this is the direct translation of the word.

You have been beaten 7 ways from Sunday on this issue and you still are sticking to your guns. That in itself is almost a religious belief. I say 'almost' because I would never actually arbitrarily call something a religion ... I am not an idiot.
2013-04-11 10:04:25 AM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: Deathfrogg: Except that Atheists recognized that Madeline Murray O'Hair was a nut decades ago. You folks still hang on every word uttered by people like Pat Robertson, Kent Hovind, Rick Warren and Ken Hamm.

Pat Robertson is a farking lunatic.  He opens his mouth, dumb comes out.

I'm not Christian.  Don't think that I am.  Go ahead, search my old posts, when have I EVER on Fark said I was a currently a Christian (I was until circa 1997, I might have mentioned that at one point).  Here's a hint, not everyone that disagrees with your opinion is a fundamentalist Christian.

I'd have to google to know who those other three are (I think that Warren guy is a megachurch pastor, or maybe that guy from Focus on the Family, but I'm not going to google it to emphasize that I honestly don't know).


I still don't know what opinion you're disagreeing with; the opinion that there is no god or the opinion that government should not endorse a religion. Because "atheism is not a religion" isn't opinion, it's fact. Even if a group of atheists get together and read chapters out of a Dawkins book out loud to each other that is not a religious gathering. If they started praying to Dawkins and expected him to actually use magic powers to hear and answer their prayers, then you might have a point.
2013-04-11 09:56:26 AM  
1 votes:

Karac: Silverstaff: What about atheists who say everyone who disagrees with them is deluded and mentally ill? That's Dawkins big act, to mock theistic belief systems and say that everybody who believes otherwise is deluded. I've encountered a lot of atheists on the web who say that belief in God should be considered a mental illness and they hope one day to have a cure for it, to make people stop believing in God and become an Atheist. That's every bit as evangelizing as those annoying Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, or the Southern Baptists who scream that you're going to hell.

I'll be worried about them when they get elected and try to pass a law based on that line of thinking.


That's what I think is so funny. All he's doing is proving people are dicks. Thanks for the update Rick. People of all bents are dicks, one group of the people actively seek political power and try to use that power to codify their religious beliefs into law and prevent the constitutionally protected rights of religions they don't like.

The other group is made up mostly of people who are meanie heads on the Internet. Silverstaff is bent out of shape about the latter, because he's got his priorities straight.
2013-04-11 09:53:55 AM  
1 votes:

Karac: Silverstaff: What about atheists who say everyone who disagrees with them is deluded and mentally ill? That's Dawkins big act, to mock theistic belief systems and say that everybody who believes otherwise is deluded. I've encountered a lot of atheists on the web who say that belief in God should be considered a mental illness and they hope one day to have a cure for it, to make people stop believing in God and become an Atheist. That's every bit as evangelizing as those annoying Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, or the Southern Baptists who scream that you're going to hell.

I'll be worried about them when they get elected and try to pass a law based on that line of thinking.


He doesn't want to talk about that. He likes the "atheism is a religion argument" - but when you concede his "point" and ask him about who is ACTUALLY trying to force their religion on the rest of us through government ................ crickets.
2013-04-11 09:47:46 AM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: Karac: Silverstaff: Why the hell is it that when I call atheists on their derp, on their acting like they are religious while doing all the things that religions do, I get called a troll?

Maybe because I've yet to see an atheist tell me that my gay buddies aren't allowed to get so much as a second-class civil union OR tell me that I can't go to Walmart and buy a hammer after getting out of church on Sunday because it's not 1:30 in the afternoon yet.

Even the most militant atheists I've ever seen are only calling on the government to live up to it's own promise of not establishing a state religion.

What about atheists who say everyone who disagrees with them is deluded and mentally ill?  That's Dawkins big act, to mock theistic belief systems and say that everybody who believes otherwise is deluded.  I've encountered a lot of atheists on the web who say that belief in God should be considered a mental illness and they hope one day to have a cure for it, to make people stop believing in God and become an Atheist.  That's every bit as evangelizing as those annoying Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, or the Southern Baptists who scream that you're going to hell.

What about atheists who filed lawsuits against the Federal Government because astronauts were so moved by the sight of the Earth from space that they spontaneously said a prayer out loud, and wanted Astronauts from being banned from prayer during spaceflight?  Madeline Murray O'Hare did that one back in the Apollo era.

As for militant atheists, if you'll check that link I posted, back in the 1920's through 1940's there was indeed a "League of Militant Atheists" who went around demolishing churches, imprisoning clergy, and working towards an avowed goal of the eradication of all religion.  Yes, they were an arm of the government of the Soviet Union, but that doesn't mean they were not atheists who were militant to the desire to crush theism and oppress people because they believed differently.


Except that Atheists recognized that Madeline Murray O'Hair was a nut decades ago. You folks still hang on every word uttered by people like Pat Robertson, Kent Hovind, Rick Warren and Ken Hamm.
2013-04-11 09:45:37 AM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: As for militant atheists, if you

blah, blah, blah, etc.

Yeah, yeah. We've heard it all. Now, a question: do you believe that if government remains silent on religion, it is endorsing atheism? Do you believe that government institutions should publicly conduct religious ceremonies? Because that is what is actually under discussion here.
I don't hear any "atheists" demanding an atheist invocations by government officials. Do you? Can you provide a citation of this?
The rest of this crap is an irrelevant red herring argument, designed to distract from the issue this woman's statements raise.
2013-04-11 09:44:20 AM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: What about atheists who say everyone who disagrees with them is deluded and mentally ill? That's Dawkins big act, to mock theistic belief systems and say that everybody who believes otherwise is deluded. I've encountered a lot of atheists on the web who say that belief in God should be considered a mental illness and they hope one day to have a cure for it, to make people stop believing in God and become an Atheist. That's every bit as evangelizing as those annoying Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, or the Southern Baptists who scream that you're going to hell.


Some people are jerks therefore it's a religion.  Your logic is inescapable.
2013-04-11 09:35:50 AM  
1 votes:

Biological Ali: TheGregiss: which is essentially a religious gathering.

Sure, much in the same way that my friend's weekly amateur soccer practice sessions are "essentially a religious gathering".


No, no, no. It's like when Chicken Little tells everyone the sky is falling so they all gather together and look up and see that the sky is indeed NOT falling. They are now a religious group that has faith that the sky is not falling.
2013-04-11 09:24:01 AM  
1 votes:

Farking Canuck: Silverstaff: Sorry, Atheists, collectively, have derped out and created a full-bore religious belief system around denying religion, complete with congregations and worship services, dogmatic texts, symbols and rites/rituals.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's a duck. You've got symbols, texts defining your beliefs, places where you congregate to share your beliefs, groups of people of like belief who gather together out of this belief, rites and rituals performed by these people in these places, and symbols to define and publicly proclaim your beliefs with, and have even had violent militants.

If it sounds like a religion, talks like a religion, and acts like a religion, it's a religion.

Sorry, the evidence is clear that atheism is a religion

Congratz ... this is some fine concentrated stupidity you have here.

To be clear, "atheists" did not do any of the above. We are not a group and we do not act as a group.

Some atheists have done some of the things you mention. But suggesting that these are common to all atheists is like insisting that all christians are abortion doctor murderers. Since some christians have brutally murdered abortion doctors in cold blood that must mean all christians are vicious murderers, right? That is your logic, correct??

If this is not the case then please stop posting this stupidity.


There is a practical agenda behind it - a dominionist agenda. The logic works like this:
Atheism is a religion.
Therefore, if the government remains silent on the subject of religion, it is actually endorsing a religion - atheism.
Thereby, we have established that the government MUST endorse some religion or other - so, which one?
Well, it's a democracy, so it should be the religion of the majority - Christianity.
Therefore, in order to abide by the First Amendment, the government must endorse Christianity.
It's airtight logic - study it out.
2013-04-11 09:21:45 AM  
1 votes:
This is what "christian" conservative fascists actually believe.
2013-04-11 09:07:08 AM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: Sorry, Atheists, collectively, have derped out and created a full-bore religious belief system around denying religion, complete with congregations and worship services, dogmatic texts, symbols and rites/rituals.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's a duck. You've got symbols, texts defining your beliefs, places where you congregate to share your beliefs, groups of people of like belief who gather together out of this belief, rites and rituals performed by these people in these places, and symbols to define and publicly proclaim your beliefs with, and have even had violent militants.

If it sounds like a religion, talks like a religion, and acts like a religion, it's a religion.

Sorry, the evidence is clear that atheism is a religion


Congratz ... this is some fine concentrated stupidity you have here.

To be clear, "atheists" did not do any of the above. We are not a group and we do not act as a group.

Some atheists have done some of the things you mention. But suggesting that these are common to all atheists is like insisting that all christians are abortion doctor murderers. Since some christians have brutally murdered abortion doctors in cold blood that must mean all christians are vicious murderers, right? That is your logic, correct??

If this is not the case then please stop posting this stupidity.
2013-04-11 09:05:56 AM  
1 votes:

UNC_Samurai: I completely agree that there are a good number of people - I'm willing to bet the overwhelming majority are teenagers in the midst of their "you can't tell me what to do" phase, because I certainly went through it - that are the r/atheism type that think it's all about telling someone off on their Facebook page because they posted something with the word "blessed".  Or waiting for the moment when they sneeze, someone says "bless you", and they use that as their casus belli to go on an anti-religious rant.

I get severely annoyed by those people.  But those people aren't the ones that are trying to pass laws that make people's lives worse off.


Christ, we all hate the assholes you describe. They don't do non-believers like myself any favors, and the fervor with which they operate is why some people confuse atheism as a religion itself.

The whole "atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby" thing is exactly what it sounds like. I don't believe, but I also don't give a damn what you do until you're an elected official who has the power to force your belief on me - in the process gleefully pissing on the Constitution you claim to love so much.

If these idgets keep it up, I'm just gonna start real-life trolling and chanting Muslim prayers at every government event I can gain access to Fire with fire, so to speak.

/needs to memorize some mooslin prayers, because WTF do I know
2013-04-11 09:05:21 AM  
1 votes:

Trapper439: I see the old "Atheism is a Religion" canard has been wheeled out in this thread.

I don't get why I should have to believe in Thor, Zeus, or this "Yahweh" character like you religious assholes.

I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, either. I don't believe that there are fairies living at the bottom of my garden. I don't believe in Harry Potter. But for some reason I'm supposed to accept creationism being taught in schools?

Fark that.


Well, to be fair, it's entirely possible to teach atheistic Intelligent Design: "Yes kids, our eyeballs were to complex to have evolved. So we want to tell you about how an ancient spacefaring race came along and genetically manipulated early life forms to have eyeballs. And then came back a billion years later and gave us speech!"
2013-04-11 09:00:53 AM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's a duck.


If it looks like the sun rises in the east, travels across the sky, and sets in the west, then the earth must circle the sun.

Congratulations! You've managed to reach a middle ages level of enlightenment!

/Wake us up when you discover electricity.
//Hint: it's the magic juice that makes your computer run
2013-04-11 08:58:28 AM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: Why the hell is it that when I call atheists on their derp, on their acting like they are religious while doing all the things that religions do, I get called a troll?


A lot of people here are sticklers for technical rectitude (the best kind of rectitude).
May I suggest you adopt the terms "ideology" and "ideologue" - that way, no one can deflect your point with what is basically a semantic argument (an old and tiresome one, too, I might add).
2013-04-11 08:57:11 AM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: Why the hell is it that when I call atheists on their derp, on their acting like they are religious while doing all the things that religions do, I get called a troll?


Maybe because I've yet to see an atheist tell me that my gay buddies aren't allowed to get so much as a second-class civil union OR tell me that I can't go to Walmart and buy a hammer after getting out of church on Sunday because it's not 1:30 in the afternoon yet.

Even the most militant atheists I've ever seen are only calling on the government to live up to it's own promise of not establishing a state religion.
2013-04-11 08:55:55 AM  
1 votes:

TheGregiss: vudukungfu: Religion is like guns and penises.
It's OK to have one.
It's OK to be proud of it.
Don't whip it out and wave it around at a polling place, a legislature, a school, a bank, the mall, etc. etc.

Fark atheists™ take note as this applies to you.


Because we're out condescendingly trying to convert people? That's a laugh.
2013-04-11 08:54:21 AM  
1 votes:

Biological Ali: Crewmannumber6: Egoy3k: Crewmannumber6: Mrfusticle: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 500x598]

So you're not counting Marx, Mao, Lenin and Stalin as athiest extremists?

They were extremists and some of them may have been Atheist (Marx was definitely not an Atheist) but they were not Atheist extremists. Their actions were not a result of extreme in atheism (which is  not really a thing anyway the same as a number more zero than zero isn't a thing) and their goals were not to spread atheism.

I'm not being a troll here, just ignorant. I thought one of the goals of communism was to create a society with out God. If I'm wrong please enlighten me.

Some communist regimes have tried to promote atheism, but the things they did to promote atheism have nothing to do with the atrocities that they're known for today.


Karl Marx was a Christian, and Marxism is largely derived from Christian values.
2013-04-11 08:53:50 AM  
1 votes:

revrendjim: Here are your choices:

1. None of the religions in public spaces.

2. All of the religions in public spaces.


cache.ohinternet.com
2013-04-11 08:52:15 AM  
1 votes:
Well, now I know what Alton Brown would look like in drag.
2013-04-11 08:47:39 AM  
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: Not at all, my point is just that on FARk its ok to say all rebublicans or all christains or all cops but when you point out true evil, all the but but but justification of said evil comes out and then its " only a small % of them are "radical"


No, that isn't true.  Republicans are true evil.
2013-04-11 08:47:30 AM  
1 votes:

Crewmannumber6: Mrfusticle: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 500x598]

So you're not counting Marx, Mao, Lenin and Stalin as athiest extremists?


Why should I?

Once again: Atheism means the absence of a belief in God it can be used to refer to Joseph Stalin and Larry Adler

You're thinking of anti-theism as evidenced by the anti-religious doctrines of the Soviet Union and Communist China

I get that it's a pain for you not to label your "enemy" as a positive movement but the prefix "A" means a lack of something not an actual thing.
2013-04-11 08:44:12 AM  
1 votes:

UNC_Samurai: Their problem in the General Assembly is, we realized something when Speaker Tillis kept having to say, "Sorry, that bill is dead, it won't be even going to a committee," to these whackjob bills the rural mouth-breathers keep filing.  We know full well that the state's Republican Leadership is capable of recognizing several members of their party have gone off the deep end, but they're not doing a damn thing to stop it at the source.  They're letting these bills see enough daylight that it's making our state a laughingstock.  So just think when you hear them go into damage control mode, they're worse than the chumps from Rowan County because they recognize the stupidity but are either too lazy to completely quash it or they only care when it's bad PR specifically for them.


I think the GOP is in a bind in states like this one, they are afraid to deal with the fundamentalist derp directly because of midterm election repercussions. I'm not sure I agree with their strategy, but then I would have divorced myself from the ultra-right wing a decade ago at the latest if I were the GOP leadership.
2013-04-11 08:41:07 AM  
1 votes:

ph0rk: jso2897: I didn't think so - I was just checking. See, the problem with this lady isn't what she believes - it's that she wants the state to affirmatively certify her personal beliefs as officially correct

Also a belief - she doesn't just believe in God, Jesus, and the other stuff, but rather that it is her responsibility to encrust that in the local government.

If no one has mentioned it before, the whole kerfluffle started over Christian prayer before Rowan county government meetings, which lead to an ACLU lawsuit. The bill is more of an end run around the lawsuit than attempt to set a state religion for NC. (Not that some wouldn't like a state religion).


Their problem in the General Assembly is, we realized something when Speaker Tillis kept having to say, "Sorry, that bill is dead, it won't be even going to a committee," to these whackjob bills the rural mouth-breathers keep filing.  We know full well that the state's Republican Leadership is capable of recognizing several members of their party have gone off the deep end, but they're not doing a damn thing to stop it at the source.  They're letting these bills see enough daylight that it's making our state a laughingstock.  So just think when you hear them go into damage control mode, they're worse than the chumps from Rowan County because they recognize the stupidity but are either too lazy to completely quash it or they only care when it's bad PR specifically for them.
2013-04-11 08:33:28 AM  
1 votes:
Another stupid Christian Republican. But I repeat myself.
2013-04-11 08:26:45 AM  
1 votes:

NewportBarGuy: How the f*ck are these people not bagging sh*t at a CVS cash register?


They wouldn't qualify. Cashiering is a productive job that requires developing useful skills, thinking & problem solving, operating complex equipment, interpersonal interaction, and self discipline.

Politicians & bureaucrats aren't capable of those things; it's why they're politicians & bureaucrats.

See, one of our nation's greatest strengths is that we take the stupidest, most useless people around, and not only give them jobs, but also put them in charge.
2013-04-11 08:23:39 AM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: neongoats: Uncle Tractor: abb3w: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Atheism is a belief system, not a religion.

More pedantically, a class of belief systems, including Randite Capitalism and Marxist Communism... neither of which is the Techno-Scientific Progressive Secular Humanist et cetera cluster that's currently prevalent in the West.

You're both wrong. Atheism is the absence of faith in gods. It's not a faith system or a philosophy or ideology or anything else.

This cannot be repeated enough. Lack of belief in god(s) isn't a religion. Thats just the HURP!! strawman assholes use to try to justify their obeisance to stone age superstition.

Take the bone out of your noses, you primitive, savage farks.

Now the intolerant Atheist derp starts.

Okay, you know, I used to think that Atheists weren't religious, that they just didn't care about religion.

Then they start showing as much hatred and intolerance of others as many religions (like your "Take the bone out of your noses, you primitive, savage farks" bit.

Then you start adding in ceremonies and rites, like unbaptism: Bill Maher performing an unbaptism

Then you start having church services and congregations of an Atheist Church: Sunday Assembly

Then you start writing books about how you're the only correct belief system and that everyone else is deluded and mentally ill and are mentally inferior to your belief system: The God Delusion

They even have had organized militant members, devoted to extermination of the worshipers of other beliefs: League of Militant Atheists

They have even adopted symbols to define their belief system:
[www.religioustolerance.org image 102x87][www.religioustolerance.org image 91x90][tuftsfreethought.org image 114x99][ecx.images-amazon.com image 98x98]

Sorry, Atheists, collectively, have derped out and created a full-bore religious belief system around denying religion, complete with congregations and worship services, dogmatic texts, symbols and rites/rituals.

If it walks like a duck, qu ...


Welcome to America, where I don't have to like your stone age, ignorant, bone in your nose, primitive ass. I just have to let you be a stone aged, ignorant, bone in your nose, primitive ass. Which I'm fine with. The difference is that, unlike the jesusy folks, "fundamentalist atheists" aren't trying to suborn the constitution and institute a state religion.

Call me when your anti-christian christians stop trying to institute a christian tyranny.
2013-04-11 08:21:40 AM  
1 votes:

spyderqueen: I always liked that, for the majority of Japan, their relationship to religion is basically "eh, it's where ritual comes from" and they do the Shinto rituals for birth (and luck) and the Christian ones for marriage and the Buddhist ones for death, but never really think of it past "that thing you do for X event"


That is pretty much how it is for most people in the UK as far as I can tell - for a lot of people churches are places you do christenings, weddings and funerals in (if they aren't too expensive compared to doing them elsewhere), because it is tradition to do so. The actual breakdown is something like 30% of people are Christian (but most don't attend church regularly), 30% categorize themselves as Christian but also non-religious, and 30% claim no religion (the other ~10% is other religions like Muslims, Sikhs, and so on). Of the latter two groups, most would probably consider going to a church for one of the major Christian rituals as normal, in the same way that Christmas/Easter and so on are celebrated largely areligiously nowadays.
2013-04-11 08:20:59 AM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: Sorry, the evidence is clear that atheism is a religion


It appears more likely that the belief that atheism is a religion is itself a religion.
2013-04-11 08:19:27 AM  
1 votes:

Gig103: scottydoesntknow: The only "religious freedom" you want is the freedom to get rid of every other religion except yours, you coont.

Well said. Sad that she doesn't even see the irony in saying we need to protect religious freedom in the same breath she is condemning a religion.  How is it that our Founding Fathers were so on-the-ball about this stuff but we've regressed into stupid Christian bullshiat?


The short answer: Gerrymandering.

The longer answer: something about democracy, wolves, sheep, bread, and circuses.
2013-04-11 08:16:39 AM  
1 votes:

spongeboob: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Since we don't want to pray to terror gods, could an atheist lead a group chant thanking the building inspector for providing a well functioning place of meeting?

I guess in order to allow that, atheist would have to admit that atheism is a religion.  I don't think any atheist will admit that.


i.imgur.com
2013-04-11 08:16:12 AM  
1 votes:

Mrfusticle: Silverstaff: neongoats: Uncle Tractor: abb3w: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Atheism is a belief system, not a religion.

More pedantically, a class of belief systems, including Randite Capitalism and Marxist Communism... neither of which is the Techno-Scientific Progressive Secular Humanist et cetera cluster that's currently prevalent in the West.

You're both wrong. Atheism is the absence of faith in gods. It's not a faith system or a philosophy or ideology or anything else.

This cannot be repeated enough. Lack of belief in god(s) isn't a religion. Thats just the HURP!! strawman assholes use to try to justify their obeisance to stone age superstition.

Take the bone out of your noses, you primitive, savage farks.

Now the intolerant Atheist derp starts.

Okay, you know, I used to think that Atheists weren't religious, that they just didn't care about religion.


a·the·ismnoun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no GodI must have missed the definition where it says it's some sort of club


Being a former church goer I can safely say youre having a collective circle jerk about your beliefs.

which is essentially a religious gathering. Congrats guys, when do we pass the offering plate and have the potluck?
2013-04-11 08:15:52 AM  
1 votes:
A bit surprising that everyone seems to be swallowing the story as written.  Did no one else notice the general lack of quality / giant slant on the page's linked  articles?
2013-04-11 08:15:03 AM  
1 votes:

Silverstaff: Then you start writing books about how you're the only correct belief system and that everyone else is deluded and mentally ill and are mentally inferior to your belief system: The God Delusion


Either you haven't read the God Delusion or you didn't comprehend it.
2013-04-11 08:14:38 AM  
1 votes:

Uncle Tractor: abb3w: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Atheism is a belief system, not a religion.

More pedantically, a class of belief systems, including Randite Capitalism and Marxist Communism... neither of which is the Techno-Scientific Progressive Secular Humanist et cetera cluster that's currently prevalent in the West.

You're both wrong. Atheism is the absence of faith in gods. It's not a faith system or a philosophy or ideology or anything else.


Some Farker once said that atheism is a religion in the same way that NOT collecting stamps is a hobby.
2013-04-11 08:11:24 AM  
1 votes:
So few people understand what freedom of religion really means
2013-04-11 08:08:09 AM  
1 votes:

neongoats: Uncle Tractor: abb3w: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Atheism is a belief system, not a religion.

More pedantically, a class of belief systems, including Randite Capitalism and Marxist Communism... neither of which is the Techno-Scientific Progressive Secular Humanist et cetera cluster that's currently prevalent in the West.

You're both wrong. Atheism is the absence of faith in gods. It's not a faith system or a philosophy or ideology or anything else.

This cannot be repeated enough. Lack of belief in god(s) isn't a religion. Thats just the HURP!! strawman assholes use to try to justify their obeisance to stone age superstition.

Take the bone out of your noses, you primitive, savage farks.


Now the intolerant Atheist derp starts.

Okay, you know, I used to think that Atheists weren't religious, that they just didn't care about religion.

Then they start showing as much hatred and intolerance of others as many religions (like your "Take the bone out of your noses, you primitive, savage farks" bit.

Then you start adding in ceremonies and rites, like unbaptism: Bill Maher performing an unbaptism

Then you start having church services and congregations of an Atheist Church: Sunday Assembly

Then you start writing books about how you're the only correct belief system and that everyone else is deluded and mentally ill and are mentally inferior to your belief system: The God Delusion

They even have had organized militant members, devoted to extermination of the worshipers of other beliefs: League of Militant Atheists

They have even adopted symbols to define their belief system:
www.religioustolerance.orgwww.religioustolerance.orgtuftsfreethought.orgecx.images-amazon.com

Sorry, Atheists, collectively, have derped out and created a full-bore religious belief system around denying religion, complete with congregations and worship services, dogmatic texts, symbols and rites/rituals.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's a duck.  You've got symbols, texts defining your beliefs, places where you congregate to share your beliefs, groups of people of like belief who gather together out of this belief, rites and rituals performed by these people in these places, and symbols to define and publicly proclaim your beliefs with, and have even had violent militants.

If it sounds like a religion, talks like a religion, and acts like a religion, it's a religion.

Sorry, the evidence is clear that atheism is a religion
2013-04-11 08:07:29 AM  
1 votes:

vudukungfu: Religion is like guns and penises.
It's OK to have one.
It's OK to be proud of it.
Don't whip it out and wave it around at a polling place, a legislature, a school, a bank, the mall, etc. etc.


Fark atheists™ take note as this applies to you.
2013-04-11 08:04:59 AM  
1 votes:

lewismarktwo: jso2897: lewismarktwo: jso2897: neongoats: lewismarktwo: Sure in theory 'Atheism' is the mere lack of belief, but in practice you get a lot of intolerant assholes forcing their views (which can never be proven, making them a species of belief) on others.

Is this an education system thing, where you think schools teaching science is "atheists forcing their views on others", but teaching jesusy creationism is "freedom".

No. He just wants to cry about people he secretly suspects are smarter than he is.

Smart atheists know when someone is baiting them, but I forgive you, just like Jesus Christ will forgive your sins if you accept him into your heart.

Well, I'm no master baiter, that's for sure. But the last I heard from Jesus, he told his followers to go practice their religion in private - so I have to assume that anyone who publicly trumpets that they are a "Christian" isn't a very good one.
By the way - your remarks indicate that you think I am an "atheist" (whatever that means) - is there some reason you think that? Or is it just an assumption you make abouit anyone who is amused by the spectacle of so-called "Christians" waving their alleged faith around in public like some flasher waving his dick?

So you're not smarter than me?


I try to assume that everybody else is smarter than I am - it's safer that way. No one has ever screwed up by overestimating the intelligence of a potential competitor.
Anyway - does it really matter? All we are really talking about here is a silly woman who thinks it's acceptable to try to set up an official state religion - do you have a position on this, or did you simply come into the thread to inform the rest of us that we are great big poopy-heads? Frankly, I'm already well aware that I am a great big poopy-head, and don't care.
2013-04-11 08:01:18 AM  
1 votes:
I will once again point out that this is all smoke and mirrors - they're tossing some absolutely inane ideas out there so the two voting bills won't look bad.

One of the voting bills actually hits more than just dems hard, though - they want to make it so that if your college kid votes where his college is, you can't claim him as a dependant for tax purposes.

The other one is just the old voting ID one, which plenty of people have pointed out is a solution in search of a problem (voting occurring less often than people getting hit by lightning and all)
2013-04-11 07:54:29 AM  
1 votes:
Go through this thread.

Replace "atheist" with "christian" and "christian" with "muslim" and suddenly it looks like your local teaparty meeting.


B b but muh dont like christians and tryin' to feel edgy!
Congrats turd nuggets youve joined the very same club of the people you profess to hate.
2013-04-11 07:50:44 AM  
1 votes:

neongoats: TheGregiss: The only thing more annoying than an evangelical christian is an evangelical atheist.

Stop trying to shove your beliefs onto other people.

And the only thing more annoying than either of them are people who mistake "you can't systematically use government to force your religion on people" as "atheists forcing their beliefs on poor innocent jesusy folks"

Congrats.


I will not rest until every year families gather to spend December 25th together at Osama's Homobortion Pot-n-Commie Jizzporium.
2013-04-11 07:42:58 AM  
1 votes:

mamoru: lucksi: Is there any country where I can get some freedom FROM religion?

I've lived in and visited a few countries around the world, and so far I have to say that, as an atheist, Japan has been the most comfortable for my lack of belief. This is having lived in the US (various places all over the east coast), Japan, Morocco, and now Thailand, as well as visiting England, France, Spain, Malaysia, and Indonesia. The only country I've lived in where anyone has made an issue of my lack of belief, trying to "save" me or damning me to hell, was the USA. Even in Morocco, a Muslim country, no one really cared that I was an atheist. I had several conversations that went something like this:

Moroccan: "Can I ask, are you a Christian?"
Me: "Nope. I'm not religious."
Moroccan: "Ever thought about converting to Islam?"
Me: "Nope."
Moroccan: "Do you believe in God?"
Me: "Nope. Sorry." (expecting that it might bother that person)
Moroccan: "Ah, no problem. So... hungry?"
Me: "Sure. I could use something to eat."
Moroccan: "Me, too. Let's go get some food."

But I digress.

There may be places better than Japan for an atheist to live, but if you like Japanese food, modern conveniences, great public transport, Japanese women, etc. or are interested in Japanese culture, then I highly recommend it. ;)



I always liked that, for the majority of Japan, their relationship to religion is basically "eh, it's where ritual comes from" and they do the Shinto rituals for birth (and luck) and the Christian ones for marriage and the Buddhist ones for death, but never really think of it past "that thing you do for X event"
2013-04-11 07:38:21 AM  
1 votes:
Welp, at least he's not a hypocrite.
2013-04-11 07:13:02 AM  
1 votes:
these gems should be put on large well made plaques bolted to the building where the idiot works. protected from the weather and well lit at night. when buildings across America start to sag from the weight of the plaques featuring our fearless leaders stupidity people will catch on that we have to make major changes to the system that allows the mentally deficient to hold public offices.

neongoats: Uncle Tractor: abb3w: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Atheism is a belief system, not a religion.

More pedantically, a class of belief systems, including Randite Capitalism and Marxist Communism... neither of which is the Techno-Scientific Progressive Secular Humanist et cetera cluster that's currently prevalent in the West.

You're both wrong. Atheism is the absence of faith in gods. It's not a faith system or a philosophy or ideology or anything else.

This cannot be repeated enough. Lack of belief in god(s) isn't a religion. Thats just the HURP!! strawman assholes use to try to justify their obeisance to stone age superstition.

Take the bone out of your noses, you primitive, savage farks.


I'll pray for you.
2013-04-11 07:12:34 AM  
1 votes:

neongoats: Uncle Tractor: abb3w: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Atheism is a belief system, not a religion.

More pedantically, a class of belief systems, including Randite Capitalism and Marxist Communism... neither of which is the Techno-Scientific Progressive Secular Humanist et cetera cluster that's currently prevalent in the West.

You're both wrong. Atheism is the absence of faith in gods. It's not a faith system or a philosophy or ideology or anything else.

This cannot be repeated enough. Lack of belief in god(s) isn't a religion. Thats just the HURP!! strawman assholes use to try to justify their obeisance to stone age superstition.

Take the bone out of your noses, you primitive, savage farks.


Sure in theory 'Atheism' is the mere lack of belief, but in practice you get a lot of intolerant assholes forcing their views (which can never be proven, making them a species of belief) on others.
2013-04-11 07:12:21 AM  
1 votes:

lucksi: Is there any country where I can get some freedom FROM religion?


I've lived in and visited a few countries around the world, and so far I have to say that, as an atheist, Japan has been the most comfortable for my lack of belief. This is having lived in the US (various places all over the east coast), Japan, Morocco, and now Thailand, as well as visiting England, France, Spain, Malaysia, and Indonesia. The only country I've lived in where anyone has made an issue of my lack of belief, trying to "save" me or damning me to hell, was the USA. Even in Morocco, a Muslim country, no one really cared that I was an atheist. I had several conversations that went something like this:

Moroccan: "Can I ask, are you a Christian?"
Me: "Nope. I'm not religious."
Moroccan: "Ever thought about converting to Islam?"
Me: "Nope."
Moroccan: "Do you believe in God?"
Me: "Nope. Sorry." (expecting that it might bother that person)
Moroccan: "Ah, no problem. So... hungry?"
Me: "Sure. I could use something to eat."
Moroccan: "Me, too. Let's go get some food."

But I digress.

There may be places better than Japan for an atheist to live, but if you like Japanese food, modern conveniences, great public transport, Japanese women, etc. or are interested in Japanese culture, then I highly recommend it. ;)
2013-04-11 07:11:55 AM  
1 votes:

natas6.0: yes yes yes, I understand all the impotent rage against the mean old religious people who like to pray before a meeting.
yes they're ignorant
yes they say stupid crap
but I really dislike that we have to accomodate  all the things
if you don't like something, you have the freedom to walk the fark out
THAT seems more like the america I used to like


We don't have to accommodate all the things. Were not supposed to accommodate ANY of them. It's not impotent rage, it's the constitution.
2013-04-11 07:10:04 AM  
1 votes:
Again, the ignorance and hypocrisy is astounding...

Between this, Rand Paul's condescending speech at Howard, and that yahoo in Kansas using "n*gger-rigging" at a meeting, the GOP sure is making good on its rhetoric to be more inclusive of minorities, eh?
2013-04-11 07:02:21 AM  
1 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties: [i.huffpost.com image 570x238]

And yet she is still somehow uglier on the inside.

/They may be gnarled and yellowed, but she has a full compliment of teeth, unlike most of her constituency.


I'm just not sure they're HER teeth.

/paging Mr. Dollarhyde
2013-04-11 06:53:08 AM  
1 votes:

Karac: One of my fondest dreams is to learn to say the Lord's Prayer in the original Aramaic, or even just Hebrew - you know, just like Jesus would do.

And then go to a local school board meeting, ask if I can say a prayer before we start, and see how long it takes before I have to switch to english to yell "DON'T TASE ME BRO!"


OMG....that is simply an awesome idea!
2013-04-11 06:31:48 AM  
1 votes:
yes yes yes, I understand all the impotent rage against the mean old religious people who like to pray before a meeting.
yes they're ignorant
yes they say stupid crap
but I really dislike that we have to accomodate  all the things
if you don't like something, you have the freedom to walk the fark out
THAT seems more like the america I used to like
2013-04-11 06:30:19 AM  
1 votes:
NC is now literally half Yankee yuppie scum transplants who go there to get away from things like having to pay workers a decent wage.
2013-04-11 06:20:17 AM  
1 votes:

miss diminutive: The fact that this woman is an elected official and has any sort of power or influence at all is incredibly disturbing.


You've obviously never visited the South.
2013-04-11 04:44:56 AM  
1 votes:
The bill, which was drafted by state Reps. Carl Ford (R-China Grove)

The people of the town are strange
And they're proud of where they came.
2013-04-11 12:20:19 AM  
1 votes:
Not gonna lie. I've sat here for 10 minutes trying to think up something amusing to say. It's been a long day and I'm tired. So this is just a bookmark.
2013-04-11 12:07:10 AM  
1 votes:

propasaurus: I've heard it argued (seriously) that Islam is not covered under the First Amendment religious protections because it is not a religion. It is a militaristic cult.


And of course the very same argument was used against Catholicism and Mormonism in the 19th and 20th centuries. Various anti-Jewish and even anti-Yoga/Hindu versions of this exist as well in American discourse, believe it or not. Of course Protestantism is somehow neither "militaristic" nor a "cult" under these "definitions." Fancy that.
2013-04-10 11:47:18 PM  
1 votes:
www.tdpri.com

"We got BOTH kinds of religion here: Baptists AND Methodists!"

2013-04-10 10:58:17 PM  
1 votes:
lh5.googleusercontent.com
lh3.googleusercontent.com
lh6.googleusercontent.com
In fairness, we might want to teach a bit more than just Christianity. We all aren't Christians out here. And as a Buddhist, I don't want my faith emblazoned on pubic walls, but then again, my daughter isn't Christian, and I don't exactly want her being exposed to ONLY Christian ideas and ideals...
2013-04-10 10:13:11 PM  
1 votes:
Thank God for Patriots like her, defending our Freedom of  Religion Christianity.
2013-04-10 09:11:28 PM  
1 votes:

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Since we don't want to pray to terror gods, could an atheist lead a group chant thanking the building inspector for providing a well functioning place of meeting?


At least there's tangible evidence of that.
2013-04-10 09:01:48 PM  
1 votes:

NewportBarGuy: How the f*ck are these people not bagging sh*t at a CVS cash register?


Because the people who bag sh*t at a CVS are the ones voting them into office.
2013-04-10 08:47:51 PM  
1 votes:

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: spongeboob: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Since we don't want to pray to terror gods, could an atheist lead a group chant thanking the building inspector for providing a well functioning place of meeting?

I guess in order to allow that, atheist would have to admit that atheism is a religion.  I don't think any atheist will admit that.

Atheism is a belief system, not a religion.

When presented with a binary option (Is there at least one higher power that can be considered god-like?), the atheists look at existing observations and believe that there is no further explanation. Theists look at the same observations and believe that a higher authority is responsible for the complexity of life. Both are equally supported by philosophy. Atheists simply believe that the null hypothesis (ie no evidence suggesting a god has interacted with creation) is the standard. It's not a religion.

There. Now that's settled. We can stay on the topic of making fun of North Carolina.


The argument that I think Republicans would use
It is Freedom of Religion not Freedom of  a belief system, so if you want to be treated like a religion you need to be  willing to admit that atheism is a religion.


/shouldn't it be Best Carolina
2013-04-10 08:19:40 PM  
1 votes:
Since we don't want to pray to terror gods, could an atheist lead a group chant thanking the building inspector for providing a well functioning place of meeting?
2013-04-10 08:08:55 PM  
1 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties: [i.huffpost.com image 570x238]

And yet she is still somehow uglier on the inside.

/They may be gnarled and yellowed, but she has a full compliment of teeth, unlike most of her constituency.


She looks English

iats not just the teeth that gave her away. It is her facial features
2013-04-10 07:58:14 PM  
1 votes:
Please use the Obvious tag on articles where the GOP is befuddled by logical consistency. TY and have a nice penis.
2013-04-10 07:50:47 PM  
1 votes:

NewportBarGuy: How the f*ck are these people not bagging sh*t at a CVS cash register?


I bet she is adequately representing her ass-backwards redneck constituents. She'll probably win her next election in a land slide.
2013-04-10 07:44:35 PM  
1 votes:
Of course.
 
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