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(Huffington Post)   North Carolina: "We must lift the ban on religion in public places" Constituent: "So then would you support Islamic prayers being said before meetings?". Legislator: "Of course not, that would be terrorism"   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 494
    More: Asinine, Muslim prayers, Michele Presnell, North Carolina, Islamic, News & Observer, Carl Paladino, Congressional Progressive Caucus, establishment of religion  
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15046 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Apr 2013 at 6:13 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-11 08:53:42 AM  

TheGregiss: which is essentially a religious gathering


No. That is not a religious gathering.
 
2013-04-11 08:53:50 AM  

revrendjim: Here are your choices:

1. None of the religions in public spaces.

2. All of the religions in public spaces.


cache.ohinternet.com
 
2013-04-11 08:54:21 AM  

Biological Ali: Crewmannumber6: Egoy3k: Crewmannumber6: Mrfusticle: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 500x598]

So you're not counting Marx, Mao, Lenin and Stalin as athiest extremists?

They were extremists and some of them may have been Atheist (Marx was definitely not an Atheist) but they were not Atheist extremists. Their actions were not a result of extreme in atheism (which is  not really a thing anyway the same as a number more zero than zero isn't a thing) and their goals were not to spread atheism.

I'm not being a troll here, just ignorant. I thought one of the goals of communism was to create a society with out God. If I'm wrong please enlighten me.

Some communist regimes have tried to promote atheism, but the things they did to promote atheism have nothing to do with the atrocities that they're known for today.


Karl Marx was a Christian, and Marxism is largely derived from Christian values.
 
2013-04-11 08:54:40 AM  

spongeboob: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: spongeboob: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Since we don't want to pray to terror gods, could an atheist lead a group chant thanking the building inspector for providing a well functioning place of meeting?

I guess in order to allow that, atheist would have to admit that atheism is a religion.  I don't think any atheist will admit that.

Atheism is a belief system, not a religion.

When presented with a binary option (Is there at least one higher power that can be considered god-like?), the atheists look at existing observations and believe that there is no further explanation. Theists look at the same observations and believe that a higher authority is responsible for the complexity of life. Both are equally supported by philosophy. Atheists simply believe that the null hypothesis (ie no evidence suggesting a god has interacted with creation) is the standard. It's not a religion.

There. Now that's settled. We can stay on the topic of making fun of North Carolina.

The argument that I think Republicans would use
It is Freedom of Religion not Freedom of  a belief system, so if you want to be treated like a religion you need to be  willing to admit that atheism is a religion.


/shouldn't it be Best Carolina


You can't really be this stupid... Can you?
 
2013-04-11 08:54:46 AM  

Silverstaff: Why the hell is it that when I call atheists on their derp, on their acting like they are religious while doing all the things that religions do, I get called a troll?


Better, but still too long. Try to cut down on the "Why are you calling me a troll?" indignation act - that's unbecoming, even by troll standards.
 
2013-04-11 08:54:52 AM  

Crewmannumber6: Mrfusticle: I get that it's a pain for you not to label your "enemy" as a positive movement but the prefix "A" means a lack of something not an actual thing.

So much for an intelligent exchange between adults. I tried anyway


Difficult to have an adult exchange when the premise is so dumb
 
2013-04-11 08:55:55 AM  

TheGregiss: vudukungfu: Religion is like guns and penises.
It's OK to have one.
It's OK to be proud of it.
Don't whip it out and wave it around at a polling place, a legislature, a school, a bank, the mall, etc. etc.

Fark atheists™ take note as this applies to you.


Because we're out condescendingly trying to convert people? That's a laugh.
 
2013-04-11 08:56:06 AM  

mactheknife: So if you're asking yourself "Why should I care?  I don't live in North Carolina," keep in mind that until a very short time ago, this was seen as a solid blue state when it came to state government and elections.  The issues at stake here are all too real, and the time for action - action restoring a practical, pragmatic, forward thinking, common sense approach to government - has come.  It's time for common sense to trump nonsense.


Louisiana, for much of its history, was also somewhat blue. Hell, we created a nearly full-on socialist (Long) who had a real shot at national office before being killed. As recently as hurricane Katrina we had a Dem governor (that storm and her reaction cost her her job, which she deserved to lose, but still).

Back in Huey Long's day, the rubes voted for the candidate that was more likely to achieve in their interests. Now they do the opposite, propping up whatever candidate hates homos and wants a regressive state tax policy. The Fox/Limbaugh bombardment has succeeded in securing rednecks who will ignore actual policy in favor of emotional rhetoric.

New Orleans will always be blue, and not just because we have a large black population. Even the white people trend Dem. But the state as a whole is now very red for all the wrong reasons. It's not rich people voting out of rational self-interest. It's rubes voting for who has the catchiest rhetorical talking points, masking the actual numbers and policies, and then wondering why their candidate shuts down hospitals and cuts education, or nearly raising the sales tax (regressive) in order to eliminate state income taxes under the guise of being "revenue neutral." It's like standing in line to vote for being farked in the ass, and smiling about it.

I'm not saying that voting Republican = stupid. I'm just saying that so many people are doing it for all the wrong reasons. As you said, it's time for common sense to trump nonsense. Supporting someone because he or she wants an official state religion under the guise of "religious freedom" is but one of these follies.
 
2013-04-11 08:56:11 AM  

Silverstaff: neongoats: Uncle Tractor: abb3w: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Atheism is a belief system, not a religion.

Then you start adding in ceremonies and rites, like unbaptism: Bill Maher performing an unbaptism


You understand that Bill Maher is a comedian right? and sometimes does things for their comedic value.

Then you start having church services and congregations of an Atheist Church: Sunday Assembly

WTF is that?

Then you start writing books about how you're the only correct belief system and that everyone else is deluded and mentally ill and are mentally inferior to your belief system: The God Delusion

Not to mention the writings of many philosophers, scientists, anthropologists and folks like Thomas Jefferson. Yes, yes, of course, philosophy and science are actually just religions.

They even have had organized militant members, devoted to extermination of the worshipers of other beliefs: League of Militant Atheists

That was an arm of the Soviet State, just another way to enforce Soviet ideology. It ceased to exist in 1947. Bit of a stretch, don't you think?

They have even adopted symbols to define their belief system:
[www.religioustolerance.org image 102x87][www.religioustolerance.org image 91x90][tuftsfreethought.org image 114x99][ecx.images-amazon.com image 98x98]


Businesses and software products have logos, too. Ergo, they are, of course, religions.

Sorry, Atheists, collectively, have derped out and created a full-bore religious belief system around denying religion, complete with congregations and worship services, dogmatic texts, symbols and rites/rituals.

By the criteria you've given virtually every collective human endeavor is a religion. Sports, Politics, Science, Business: all are religions.

Good Jorb!
 
2013-04-11 08:57:11 AM  

Silverstaff: Why the hell is it that when I call atheists on their derp, on their acting like they are religious while doing all the things that religions do, I get called a troll?


Maybe because I've yet to see an atheist tell me that my gay buddies aren't allowed to get so much as a second-class civil union OR tell me that I can't go to Walmart and buy a hammer after getting out of church on Sunday because it's not 1:30 in the afternoon yet.

Even the most militant atheists I've ever seen are only calling on the government to live up to it's own promise of not establishing a state religion.
 
2013-04-11 08:57:13 AM  
I see the old "Atheism is a Religion" canard has been wheeled out in this thread.

I don't get why I should have to believe in Thor, Zeus, or this "Yahweh" character like you religious assholes.

I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, either. I don't believe that there are fairies living at the bottom of my garden. I don't believe in Harry Potter. But for some reason I'm supposed to accept creationism being taught in schools?

Fark that.
 
2013-04-11 08:57:18 AM  

spongeboob: kronicfeld: spongeboob: I guess in order to allow that, atheist would have to admit that atheism is a religion. I don't think any atheist will admit that.

Is that like "admitting" that rain falls up?

perhaps I should have said in order to be treated the same as a religion atheist would need to claim that atheism is/is like a religion.


Okay, you really are. Never mind. You're excused.
 
2013-04-11 08:57:35 AM  

Crewmannumber6: Egoy3k: Crewmannumber6: Mrfusticle: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 500x598]

So you're not counting Marx, Mao, Lenin and Stalin as athiest extremists?

They were extremists and some of them may have been Atheist (Marx was definitely not an Atheist) but they were not Atheist extremists. Their actions were not a result of extreme in atheism (which is  not really a thing anyway the same as a number more zero than zero isn't a thing) and their goals were not to spread atheism.

I'm not being a troll here, just ignorant. I thought one of the goals of communism was to create a society with out God. If I'm wrong please enlighten me.


Bear with me I'm going from  memory and some more intelligent farker might need to correct me.There is a a line in Marx's writing that is commonly quoted as, "Religion is the opiate of the masses" It's been continually quoted out of context and misunderstood since the book was written. What Marx was trying to say was that religion makes people who have shiatty lives feel better about their life. The goal of the perfect sate (communism in his opinion) should be to remove the NEED for religion. In other words people should be so happy and content that they don't need religion to make them feel better. The problem is communism sucks and people were miserable.  In order to have political power (and thus any real prospects for employment) you needed to be a party member in good standing. Going to church was a sign of malcontent and pretty much a death sentence for your life as a party member.

Some states went even further in attempts to prove their systems validity and outlawed religion. For some reason communism has a real inferiority complex and needs to show the world how perfect their 'radiant future' is. So basically instead of actually fixing their problems they just outlawed people from acting as if there were problems.
 
2013-04-11 08:58:28 AM  

Silverstaff: Why the hell is it that when I call atheists on their derp, on their acting like they are religious while doing all the things that religions do, I get called a troll?


A lot of people here are sticklers for technical rectitude (the best kind of rectitude).
May I suggest you adopt the terms "ideology" and "ideologue" - that way, no one can deflect your point with what is basically a semantic argument (an old and tiresome one, too, I might add).
 
2013-04-11 09:00:53 AM  

Silverstaff: If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's a duck.


If it looks like the sun rises in the east, travels across the sky, and sets in the west, then the earth must circle the sun.

Congratulations! You've managed to reach a middle ages level of enlightenment!

/Wake us up when you discover electricity.
//Hint: it's the magic juice that makes your computer run
 
2013-04-11 09:00:53 AM  

cfletch13: Angry Buddha: berylman: She's still not as vile as representative Virginia Foxx.

Oh come on! That's a porn star, not an elected official.

I'm loling because a girl I went to high school with does porn under the stage name Chloe Foxxx.

Yes, you can find her videos on Redtube.


Does GIS.

Ugh.
 
2013-04-11 09:01:15 AM  

jso2897: May I suggest you adopt the terms "ideology" and "ideologue" - that way, no one can deflect your point with what is basically a semantic argument (an old and tiresome one, too, I might add).


Yes,  avoid a semantic ploy by adopting a slightly different word to get the same exact argument across, while also shielding yourself from criticism on a technicality of wording.  That will  avoid a semantic argument.
 
2013-04-11 09:02:21 AM  
Pray in silence, God will hear you. He doesn't give a crap, but he will hear you. Repeat 10 times and then kill yourself.
 
2013-04-11 09:03:13 AM  
Did I step into a timewarp? "Atheism is a religion" on Fark in 2013? The fark?
 
2013-04-11 09:03:48 AM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: jso2897: May I suggest you adopt the terms "ideology" and "ideologue" - that way, no one can deflect your point with what is basically a semantic argument (an old and tiresome one, too, I might add).

Yes,  avoid a semantic ploy by adopting a slightly different word to get the same exact argument across, while also shielding yourself from criticism on a technicality of wording.  That will  avoid a semantic argument.


You know what I mean.
 
2013-04-11 09:05:08 AM  
I'm all for spaces in pub licre lig ion.
 
2013-04-11 09:05:20 AM  

CPennypacker: Did I step into a timewarp? "Atheism is a religion" on Fark in 2013? The fark?


LeTrole has recruited a follower evidently.
 
2013-04-11 09:05:21 AM  

Trapper439: I see the old "Atheism is a Religion" canard has been wheeled out in this thread.

I don't get why I should have to believe in Thor, Zeus, or this "Yahweh" character like you religious assholes.

I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, either. I don't believe that there are fairies living at the bottom of my garden. I don't believe in Harry Potter. But for some reason I'm supposed to accept creationism being taught in schools?

Fark that.


Well, to be fair, it's entirely possible to teach atheistic Intelligent Design: "Yes kids, our eyeballs were to complex to have evolved. So we want to tell you about how an ancient spacefaring race came along and genetically manipulated early life forms to have eyeballs. And then came back a billion years later and gave us speech!"
 
2013-04-11 09:05:56 AM  

UNC_Samurai: I completely agree that there are a good number of people - I'm willing to bet the overwhelming majority are teenagers in the midst of their "you can't tell me what to do" phase, because I certainly went through it - that are the r/atheism type that think it's all about telling someone off on their Facebook page because they posted something with the word "blessed".  Or waiting for the moment when they sneeze, someone says "bless you", and they use that as their casus belli to go on an anti-religious rant.

I get severely annoyed by those people.  But those people aren't the ones that are trying to pass laws that make people's lives worse off.


Christ, we all hate the assholes you describe. They don't do non-believers like myself any favors, and the fervor with which they operate is why some people confuse atheism as a religion itself.

The whole "atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby" thing is exactly what it sounds like. I don't believe, but I also don't give a damn what you do until you're an elected official who has the power to force your belief on me - in the process gleefully pissing on the Constitution you claim to love so much.

If these idgets keep it up, I'm just gonna start real-life trolling and chanting Muslim prayers at every government event I can gain access to Fire with fire, so to speak.

/needs to memorize some mooslin prayers, because WTF do I know
 
2013-04-11 09:07:08 AM  

Silverstaff: Sorry, Atheists, collectively, have derped out and created a full-bore religious belief system around denying religion, complete with congregations and worship services, dogmatic texts, symbols and rites/rituals.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's a duck. You've got symbols, texts defining your beliefs, places where you congregate to share your beliefs, groups of people of like belief who gather together out of this belief, rites and rituals performed by these people in these places, and symbols to define and publicly proclaim your beliefs with, and have even had violent militants.

If it sounds like a religion, talks like a religion, and acts like a religion, it's a religion.

Sorry, the evidence is clear that atheism is a religion


Congratz ... this is some fine concentrated stupidity you have here.

To be clear, "atheists" did not do any of the above. We are not a group and we do not act as a group.

Some atheists have done some of the things you mention. But suggesting that these are common to all atheists is like insisting that all christians are abortion doctor murderers. Since some christians have brutally murdered abortion doctors in cold blood that must mean all christians are vicious murderers, right? That is your logic, correct??

If this is not the case then please stop posting this stupidity.
 
2013-04-11 09:10:32 AM  

Crewmannumber6: Egoy3k: Crewmannumber6: Mrfusticle: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 500x598]

So you're not counting Marx, Mao, Lenin and Stalin as athiest extremists?

They were extremists and some of them may have been Atheist (Marx was definitely not an Atheist) but they were not Atheist extremists. Their actions were not a result of extreme in atheism (which is  not really a thing anyway the same as a number more zero than zero isn't a thing) and their goals were not to spread atheism.

I'm not being a troll here, just ignorant. I thought one of the goals of communism was to create a society with out God. If I'm wrong please enlighten me.


The goal was for the state to replace God. The opposition to the Abrahamic religions was because they were seen as competitive ideas.

But some people have this idea of some Dawkins-esque character persecuting the religious.
 
2013-04-11 09:11:18 AM  

Misch: catmandu: FTA: "The North Carolina measure responds to the ACLU suit by declaring that each state is "sovereign" and no federal court can prevent a state from "from making laws respecting an establishment of religion." "

Ummmm, isn't accepting the US Constitution a condition of becoming one of the United States?

It's the latest tack a number of states are trying to push, that the amendments of the Constitution don't apply to the states themselves.


Except for the Second Amendment.
 
2013-04-11 09:13:48 AM  

Gig103: scottydoesntknow: The only "religious freedom" you want is the freedom to get rid of every other religion except yours, you coont.

Well said. Sad that she doesn't even see the irony in saying we need to protect religious freedom in the same breath she is condemning a religion.  How is it that our Founding Fathers were so on-the-ball about this stuff but we've regressed into stupid Christian bullshiat?


This is why:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening. And many would argue that we are currently experiencing the third great awakening. Certainly enough derp going around to support it.
 
2013-04-11 09:14:03 AM  

jso2897: You know what I mean.


Yes.  I do.
 
2013-04-11 09:15:07 AM  

Egoy3k: Bear with me I'm going from memory and some more intelligent farker might need to correct me.There is a a line in Marx's writing that is commonly quoted as, "Religion is the opiate of the masses" It's been continually quoted out of context and misunderstood since the book was written. What Marx was trying to say was that religion makes people who have shiatty lives feel better about their life.


Just in case you missed it.
 
2013-04-11 09:15:56 AM  

UNC_Samurai: ph0rk: jso2897: I didn't think so - I was just checking. See, the problem with this lady isn't what she believes - it's that she wants the state to affirmatively certify her personal beliefs as officially correct

Also a belief - she doesn't just believe in God, Jesus, and the other stuff, but rather that it is her responsibility to encrust that in the local government.

If no one has mentioned it before, the whole kerfluffle started over Christian prayer before Rowan county government meetings, which lead to an ACLU lawsuit. The bill is more of an end run around the lawsuit than attempt to set a state religion for NC. (Not that some wouldn't like a state religion).

Their problem in the General Assembly is, we realized something when Speaker Tillis kept having to say, "Sorry, that bill is dead, it won't be even going to a committee," to these whackjob bills the rural mouth-breathers keep filing.  We know full well that the state's Republican Leadership is capable of recognizing several members of their party have gone off the deep end, but they're not doing a damn thing to stop it at the source.  They're letting these bills see enough daylight that it's making our state a laughingstock.  So just think when you hear them go into damage control mode, they're worse than the chumps from Rowan County because they recognize the stupidity but are either too lazy to completely quash it or they only care when it's bad PR specifically for them.


Tillis is probably afraid that if he stomps on the rural redneck Republican politicians too hard, he might find himself out of a job as Speaker. Plus there are some of their ideas he supports; calling for background checks on all people getting government assistance, requiring all students to learn how to write cursive, and taking power away from the cities in NC, for example.
 
2013-04-11 09:16:14 AM  
Damn.. This thread went to a place that doesn't exist real quick
 
2013-04-11 09:16:22 AM  

oeneus: Gig103: scottydoesntknow: The only "religious freedom" you want is the freedom to get rid of every other religion except yours, you coont.

Well said. Sad that she doesn't even see the irony in saying we need to protect religious freedom in the same breath she is condemning a religion.  How is it that our Founding Fathers were so on-the-ball about this stuff but we've regressed into stupid Christian bullshiat?

This is why:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening. And many would argue that we are currently experiencing the third great awakening. Certainly enough derp going around to support it.


The argument is that we're experiencing the Fourth Great Awakening.  The Third took place in the late 19th century.  That was also the one that really cranked the temperance movement to 11, so you're morally allowed to condemn those people.
 
2013-04-11 09:18:38 AM  

Crewmannumber6: Mrfusticle: I get that it's a pain for you not to label your "enemy" as a positive movement but the prefix "A" means a lack of something not an actual thing.

So much for an intelligent exchange between adults. I tried anyway


No you didn't. You tried to force people to concede to your talking points and are crying now when they refused.

The political leaders you mentioned were trying to eliminate competing power bases. Their actions cannot have been motivated by atheism. Atheism has no leaders, no dogma, no books/writings/verbal teachings. There is absolutely nothing in atheism that can be used to motivate any action.
 
2013-04-11 09:21:11 AM  
Silverstaff:
They have even adopted symbols to define their belief system:
[www.religioustolerance.org image 102x87][www.religioustolerance.org image 91x90][tuftsfreethought.org image 114x99][ecx.images-amazon.com image 98x98]


I kind of like the Darwin one, it's funny with the little legs.
 
2013-04-11 09:21:45 AM  
This is what "christian" conservative fascists actually believe.
 
2013-04-11 09:24:01 AM  

Farking Canuck: Silverstaff: Sorry, Atheists, collectively, have derped out and created a full-bore religious belief system around denying religion, complete with congregations and worship services, dogmatic texts, symbols and rites/rituals.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's a duck. You've got symbols, texts defining your beliefs, places where you congregate to share your beliefs, groups of people of like belief who gather together out of this belief, rites and rituals performed by these people in these places, and symbols to define and publicly proclaim your beliefs with, and have even had violent militants.

If it sounds like a religion, talks like a religion, and acts like a religion, it's a religion.

Sorry, the evidence is clear that atheism is a religion

Congratz ... this is some fine concentrated stupidity you have here.

To be clear, "atheists" did not do any of the above. We are not a group and we do not act as a group.

Some atheists have done some of the things you mention. But suggesting that these are common to all atheists is like insisting that all christians are abortion doctor murderers. Since some christians have brutally murdered abortion doctors in cold blood that must mean all christians are vicious murderers, right? That is your logic, correct??

If this is not the case then please stop posting this stupidity.


There is a practical agenda behind it - a dominionist agenda. The logic works like this:
Atheism is a religion.
Therefore, if the government remains silent on the subject of religion, it is actually endorsing a religion - atheism.
Thereby, we have established that the government MUST endorse some religion or other - so, which one?
Well, it's a democracy, so it should be the religion of the majority - Christianity.
Therefore, in order to abide by the First Amendment, the government must endorse Christianity.
It's airtight logic - study it out.
 
2013-04-11 09:25:21 AM  

oeneus: This is why: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening. And many would argue that we are currently experiencing the third great awakening. Certainly enough derp going around to support it.


Except church attendance is way down compared to previous generations/eras. It more about the fact that the religious are becoming less powerful, and so the derp is getting turned up to 11. The social conservatives have lost pretty much every cultural battle for the last 50 to 100 years. Starting with women's suffrage, then civil rights, the sexual liberation of the 60s/70s, and now acceptance of homosexuals. And they've driven more and more people away, so what you have left is a core of fundamentalists.
 
2013-04-11 09:27:32 AM  

mamoru: lucksi: Is there any country where I can get some freedom FROM religion?

I've lived in and visited a few countries around the world, and so far I have to say that, as an atheist, Japan has been the most comfortable for my lack of belief. This is having lived in the US (various places all over the east coast), Japan, Morocco, and now Thailand, as well as visiting England, France, Spain, Malaysia, and Indonesia. The only country I've lived in where anyone has made an issue of my lack of belief, trying to "save" me or damning me to hell, was the USA. Even in Morocco, a Muslim country, no one really cared that I was an atheist. I had several conversations that went something like this:

Moroccan: "Can I ask, are you a Christian?"
Me: "Nope. I'm not religious."
Moroccan: "Ever thought about converting to Islam?"
Me: "Nope."
Moroccan: "Do you believe in God?"
Me: "Nope. Sorry." (expecting that it might bother that person)
Moroccan: "Ah, no problem. So... hungry?"
Me: "Sure. I could use something to eat."
Moroccan: "Me, too. Let's go get some food."

But I digress.

There may be places better than Japan for an atheist to live, but if you like Japanese food, modern conveniences, great public transport, Japanese women, etc. or are interested in Japanese culture, then I highly recommend it. ;)


It's your Moroccan friend's duty to ask.  I've had exactly the same conversation with a commuter train buddy who's Muslim.  I forget which surah mentions it.
 
2013-04-11 09:30:45 AM  

mamoru: lucksi: Is there any country where I can get some freedom FROM religion?

I've lived in and visited a few countries around the world, and so far I have to say that, as an atheist, Japan has been the most comfortable for my lack of belief. This is having lived in the US (various places all over the east coast), Japan, Morocco, and now Thailand, as well as visiting England, France, Spain, Malaysia, and Indonesia. The only country I've lived in where anyone has made an issue of my lack of belief, trying to "save" me or damning me to hell, was the USA. Even in Morocco, a Muslim country, no one really cared that I was an atheist. I had several conversations that went something like this:

Moroccan: "Can I ask, are you a Christian?"
Me: "Nope. I'm not religious."
Moroccan: "Ever thought about converting to Islam?"
Me: "Nope."
Moroccan: "Do you believe in God?"
Me: "Nope. Sorry." (expecting that it might bother that person)
Moroccan: "Ah, no problem. So... hungry?"
Me: "Sure. I could use something to eat."
Moroccan: "Me, too. Let's go get some food."

But I digress.

There may be places better than Japan for an atheist to live, but if you like Japanese food, modern conveniences, great public transport, Japanese women, etc. or are interested in Japanese culture, then I highly recommend it. ;)


I highly recommend the Czech Republic. Lots of churches but most of them are used as concert venues now.
 
2013-04-11 09:33:46 AM  

oeneus: mamoru: lucksi: Is there any country where I can get some freedom FROM religion?

I've lived in and visited a few countries around the world, and so far I have to say that, as an atheist, Japan has been the most comfortable for my lack of belief. This is having lived in the US (various places all over the east coast), Japan, Morocco, and now Thailand, as well as visiting England, France, Spain, Malaysia, and Indonesia. The only country I've lived in where anyone has made an issue of my lack of belief, trying to "save" me or damning me to hell, was the USA. Even in Morocco, a Muslim country, no one really cared that I was an atheist. I had several conversations that went something like this:

Moroccan: "Can I ask, are you a Christian?"
Me: "Nope. I'm not religious."
Moroccan: "Ever thought about converting to Islam?"
Me: "Nope."
Moroccan: "Do you believe in God?"
Me: "Nope. Sorry." (expecting that it might bother that person)
Moroccan: "Ah, no problem. So... hungry?"
Me: "Sure. I could use something to eat."
Moroccan: "Me, too. Let's go get some food."

But I digress.

There may be places better than Japan for an atheist to live, but if you like Japanese food, modern conveniences, great public transport, Japanese women, etc. or are interested in Japanese culture, then I highly recommend it. ;)

I highly recommend the Czech Republic. Lots of churches but most of them are used as concert venues now.


Went to Prague in 88 and 89

Beautiful buildings
Beautiful beer
Beautiful women
Terrible food
 
2013-04-11 09:33:49 AM  

Crewmannumber6: Mrfusticle: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 500x598]

So you're not counting Marx, Mao, Lenin and Stalin as athiest extremists?


No, they were brutal dictators.

Silverstaff: They have even adopted symbols to define their belief system:


I know, having a car decal means you're part of a religion.  See.

oddculture.com
 
2013-04-11 09:34:14 AM  

UNC_Samurai: oeneus: Gig103: scottydoesntknow: The only "religious freedom" you want is the freedom to get rid of every other religion except yours, you coont.

Well said. Sad that she doesn't even see the irony in saying we need to protect religious freedom in the same breath she is condemning a religion.  How is it that our Founding Fathers were so on-the-ball about this stuff but we've regressed into stupid Christian bullshiat?

This is why:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening. And many would argue that we are currently experiencing the third great awakening. Certainly enough derp going around to support it.

The argument is that we're experiencing the Fourth Great Awakening.  The Third took place in the late 19th century.  That was also the one that really cranked the temperance movement to 11, so you're morally allowed to condemn those people.


I stand corrected. Damn my poor memory and the third great awakening people!
 
2013-04-11 09:35:50 AM  

Biological Ali: TheGregiss: which is essentially a religious gathering.

Sure, much in the same way that my friend's weekly amateur soccer practice sessions are "essentially a religious gathering".


No, no, no. It's like when Chicken Little tells everyone the sky is falling so they all gather together and look up and see that the sky is indeed NOT falling. They are now a religious group that has faith that the sky is not falling.
 
2013-04-11 09:36:31 AM  

Karac: Silverstaff: Why the hell is it that when I call atheists on their derp, on their acting like they are religious while doing all the things that religions do, I get called a troll?

Maybe because I've yet to see an atheist tell me that my gay buddies aren't allowed to get so much as a second-class civil union OR tell me that I can't go to Walmart and buy a hammer after getting out of church on Sunday because it's not 1:30 in the afternoon yet.

Even the most militant atheists I've ever seen are only calling on the government to live up to it's own promise of not establishing a state religion.


What about atheists who say everyone who disagrees with them is deluded and mentally ill?  That's Dawkins big act, to mock theistic belief systems and say that everybody who believes otherwise is deluded.  I've encountered a lot of atheists on the web who say that belief in God should be considered a mental illness and they hope one day to have a cure for it, to make people stop believing in God and become an Atheist.  That's every bit as evangelizing as those annoying Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, or the Southern Baptists who scream that you're going to hell.

What about atheists who filed lawsuits against the Federal Government because astronauts were so moved by the sight of the Earth from space that they spontaneously said a prayer out loud, and wanted Astronauts from being banned from prayer during spaceflight?  Madeline Murray O'Hare did that one back in the Apollo era.

As for militant atheists, if you'll check that link I posted, back in the 1920's through 1940's there was indeed a "League of Militant Atheists" who went around demolishing churches, imprisoning clergy, and working towards an avowed goal of the eradication of all religion.  Yes, they were an arm of the government of the Soviet Union, but that doesn't mean they were not atheists who were militant to the desire to crush theism and oppress people because they believed differently.
 
2013-04-11 09:38:32 AM  

Zasteva: Silverstaff: If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's a duck.

If it looks like the sun rises in the east, travels across the sky, and sets in the west, then the earth must circle the sun.

Congratulations! You've managed to reach a middle ages level of enlightenment!

/Wake us up when you discover electricity.
//Hint: it's the magic juice that makes your computer run


So you are saying i should stop putting gerbil treats in my cd rom drive?
www.youthblog.org
 
2013-04-11 09:38:40 AM  

miscreant: oeneus: This is why: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening. And many would argue that we are currently experiencing the third great awakening. Certainly enough derp going around to support it.

Except church attendance is way down compared to previous generations/eras. It more about the fact that the religious are becoming less powerful, and so the derp is getting turned up to 11. The social conservatives have lost pretty much every cultural battle for the last 50 to 100 years. Starting with women's suffrage, then civil rights, the sexual liberation of the 60s/70s, and now acceptance of homosexuals. And they've driven more and more people away, so what you have left is a core of fundamentalists.


Agreed! But my post was trying to point out why we're so different from our founding fathers.

/Well, the first part of my post was about the change since the constitution was written. The second part was just inaccurate whaaaarble.
 
2013-04-11 09:39:07 AM  
If I started each day with a limited number of people I could tell to shutup and they magically would, I'd be out of magical shutup wishes just reading this thread and it's not even breakfast yet.
 
2013-04-11 09:44:20 AM  

Silverstaff: What about atheists who say everyone who disagrees with them is deluded and mentally ill? That's Dawkins big act, to mock theistic belief systems and say that everybody who believes otherwise is deluded. I've encountered a lot of atheists on the web who say that belief in God should be considered a mental illness and they hope one day to have a cure for it, to make people stop believing in God and become an Atheist. That's every bit as evangelizing as those annoying Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, or the Southern Baptists who scream that you're going to hell.


Some people are jerks therefore it's a religion.  Your logic is inescapable.
 
2013-04-11 09:45:00 AM  

Fart_Machine: Silverstaff: They have even adopted symbols to define their belief system:

I know, having a car decal means you're part of a religion. See.


Nice strawman you're trying to build of what I said.

I listed symbols as the last thing on a long list of things that atheists have been doing that have taken atheism from simply not believing in God to a complete belief system/religion.

An actual physical Church, complete with regular congregation.
A rite/ceremony of initiation.
Dogmatic texts.


Here's the funny thing, I'm not Christian, I haven't set foot in a Christian church (aside from attending a funeral and going to a wedding chapel) in 16 years.  I'm theistic but I'm not in-your-face about it (and don't really fit into any one religion in terms of my belief system), I am just tired of Atheists trying to say they aren't a religion while going around doing all the things that religious people do, but denying it.

Don't want to be called a religion?  Stop acting like one.  Don't get in other peoples faces about it.  Don't publicly mock and insult them because they believe differently.

Yeah, not every Atheist does that, but not every religious person is out to create a worldwide Caliphate or Dominionist Theocracy.  Not every religious person is out there shoving their beliefs in your face, just like not every atheist is.

However, if you're going to go around and talk about religion collectively, and complain about how they are bad people doing bad things, you better watch yourselves so you don't act the same way, just under the banner of a different belief system.
 
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