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(Daily Mail)   Jobless mother-of-ten needs more help from the NHS to have another baby because her benefits are too low   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 54
    More: Asinine, NHS, Iona Heaton, child welfare  
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11948 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Apr 2013 at 9:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-04-10 09:34:16 PM
5 votes:
Miss Heaton's eldest three - Sean, 25, Jade, 18, herself a new mother, and Shannon, 17, who is pregnant - are from a previous relationship.

The apple did not fall from the tree
2013-04-10 08:05:40 PM
5 votes:
Now those are some farking leaches on society.  Laws of England are lacking some farking common sense.  You want to live on the dole, then you should be forced to stop at maybe three kids, maximum.  Benefits do not go up at all after that third spawning.

Every time people complain about the lazy poor in America and socialism, they need to read about shiat like this.  They are given a home and living money just for being citizens-for life!

...and they still biatch about it.
2013-04-10 09:29:07 PM
4 votes:
Daily Mail - I'd take this with a pinch of salt.
2013-04-10 10:45:14 PM
3 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties: Now those are some farking leaches on society.  Laws of England are lacking some farking common sense.  You want to live on the dole, then you should be forced to stop at maybe three kids, maximum.  Benefits do not go up at all after that third spawning.

Every time people complain about the lazy poor in America and socialism, they need to read about shiat like this.  They are given a home and living money just for being citizens-for life!

...and they still biatch about it.


Not sure what you're complaining about.  Democrats here in America have created pretty much the same thing.  It's their wet dream.  And it's what non-Dems are fighting to prevent.
2013-04-10 09:50:28 PM
3 votes:

Bhruic: AdolfOliverPanties: You want to live on the dole, then you should be forced to stop at maybe three kids, maximum.  Benefits do not go up at all after that third spawning.

Honest question - how do they stop it?  Force abortions on women who get pregnant after 3 kids?  Just stop giving them money, so that the kids end up suffering?  There's no good answer to the problem that doesn't end up hurting the children more than the parents.  And the kids are innocent.


Cut off benefits if she has more children, and if she keeps doing it, take them all away, because she is clearly not capable of being a responsible parent.

/zero sympathy for people who won't even try to live within their means
2013-04-10 09:44:28 PM
3 votes:
You know, I am all for a hand up and a hand out, and don't see the benefit in punishing children for the poor choices of their egg/sperm donors. But at some point, enough is enough. Women like this need mandatory Norplant or a complete cutoff of benefits. If she loves being pregnant so much, she could make a tidy living as a surrogate, no?
2013-04-10 09:33:55 PM
3 votes:

GleeUnit: Honest question:  If you can't afford a house in England, the gov't just... Buys you a house?  Really?  What are the limitations on this?


Pretty sure she doesn't own it.  Also this is the daily fail.

What she NEEDS is psych treatment for being addicted to pregnancy.
2013-04-10 09:33:37 PM
3 votes:
England much like many European nations is generous with incentives to mothers because their birthrate is so low. This is better than importing immigrants that will live off the dole anyways but not assimilate into society as easily.
2013-04-10 08:12:28 PM
3 votes:
Honest question:  If you can't afford a house in England, the gov't just... Buys you a house?  Really?  What are the limitations on this?
2013-04-10 11:17:06 PM
2 votes:

StoPPeRmobile: MichiganFTL: GoldSpider: Marine1: They get a better one than produce stocker at a Walmart in northeastern Missouri.

Ask any of the college graduates working multiple minimum-wage jobs just to pay off their predatory school loans.

The banks have already robbed them of their financial freedom.  I don't see how robbing them of their reproductive rights is going to help.

Two things come to mind:

Anthropology major? To teach? The cycle continues.

Underwater basket weaving?

Is there a statistic which shows the top 5 degrees with the highest unemployment and/or lowest wages? I'll try to duck the English and sociology majors coming out in defense.

BubbleMarket adjustment. The pain you are experiencing is the value of your education lowering.


I was one of the people who got their masters and took a crappy job during it bc I couldn't find crap with my degree. 80k later I do have a good job, but honestly that's only because of the experience I had at the crappy job giving me my foot in the door. I don't use anything I learned on a daily basis from my education, but I sure pay my monthly bills because they say I am edumacated now.  When are we going to give up this 'everyone must go to college' thing and realize some people are not cut out for it and it will be worse for them. Lets promote vocational schools and apprenticeships to learn trades again.
2013-04-10 11:14:42 PM
2 votes:

Bhruic: AdolfOliverPanties: You want to live on the dole, then you should be forced to stop at maybe three kids, maximum.  Benefits do not go up at all after that third spawning.

Honest question - how do they stop it?  Force abortions on women who get pregnant after 3 kids?  Just stop giving them money, so that the kids end up suffering?  There's no good answer to the problem that doesn't end up hurting the children more than the parents.  And the kids are innocent.


Or take away their kids and put them in orphanages? I was just having this discussion with my sister today. Either you give the parents money and food so the kids don't starve, or you put them in foster care/orphanages which also costs money and then the kids and parents are miserable.

That said, I'm all for forced tubal ligation after the second kid you can't pay for. I mean seriously, how many kids does anyone need?
2013-04-10 10:27:59 PM
2 votes:

Marine1: Where do we get these people?


From voting Republican.
2013-04-10 10:25:33 PM
2 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties: Now those are some farking leaches on society.  Laws of England are lacking some farking common sense.  You want to live on the dole, then you should be forced to stop at maybe three kids, maximum.  Benefits do not go up at all after that third spawning.

Every time people complain about the lazy poor in America and socialism, they need to read about shiat like this.  They are given a home and living money just for being citizens-for life!

...and they still biatch about it.


I have a friend who more or less did the following:

* Drops out of college- a fairly decent liberal arts school - her sophomore year
* Dates a guy for six months
* Marries him
* Buys house with him
* Gains 50 lbs.
* Finds out guy is an abusive scumbag who doesn't like work
* Gets upside down in the house
* Gets job at Wal-Mart. Her wage is somewhere beneath $10/hr.
* Can't find husband to divorce him... he runs off to Indiana
* Gets roommate who eats her food and borrows money without paying it back.
* Finds another guy while still technically married
* Decides to stop birth control
* Gets pregnant.

I talk to her recently; she says getting $10,000 hypothetical dollars would be nice. When I told her she'd need more than that to pay for the kid's health care when it's born, she said "Medicaid is free".

Where do we get these people?
2013-04-10 10:00:02 PM
2 votes:

swingerofbirches: Why would a woman who was going to be scorned by the public go to the Daily Mail and say, "Please write about me leeching off the government."


Maybe her time spent reading Fark have convinced her that the public would be sympathetic to her plight.
2013-04-10 09:56:34 PM
2 votes:

The Snow Dog: So a dude can have sex with a retarded woman and NOT have it be rape? Gross. How is this not illegal?


a friend of mine was an orderly as a hospital where one patient was a woman who has fairly profound brain damage from a traffic accident. her psycho husband was discovered to be having sex with her when he visited, leaving the mess for the nurses to clean up. they reported him, not sure whether he was ever charged.
2013-04-10 09:48:49 PM
2 votes:
in case anyone has ever noticed : Daily Mail seems to have to run a story almost every day about those dirty dirty welfare cheats ruining Britain. bonus points if they can make it about those dirty horrible immigrants ruining also ruining Britain. if they can make it about immigrant gypsies cheating welfare the editors at Daily Mail basically go catatonic from joy. read an article the other day : someone went around surveying people on benefits in England & most of them were convinced everyone else on benefits were cheating to get it, unlike them.

always wonder how much they pay people to publically announce in their paper that they are scamming the system. is it true? or do they just find the most mentally deficient because any good cheat is going to keep their damned mouth shut?
2013-04-10 09:47:14 PM
2 votes:
Hyphen nazi says, 'no.'
xcv
2013-04-10 09:45:51 PM
2 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties: Now those are some farking leaches on society.  Laws of England are lacking some farking common sense.  You want to live on the dole, then you should be forced to stop at maybe three kids, maximum.  Benefits do not go up at all after that third spawning.



Then comes the argument that society is punishing the additional children for being born poor....

A better way would be rewarding welfare recipients for not having additional children. The parents might not be that intelligent but they'll respond favorably to financial incentives. I recall reading that Singapore provides higher quality subsidized housing to families on public assistance that stop at 2 kids.

But a similar policy in America would lead to Republicans outrage about the government encouraging abortions.
2013-04-10 09:26:58 PM
2 votes:
1.bp.blogspot.com
just keep laying them eggs...
2013-04-10 09:26:45 PM
2 votes:
Zombie Margaret Thatcher, England needs you now!
2013-04-11 08:32:15 AM
1 votes:

The Snow Dog: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 550x317]


That movie is a Goddamn documentry. It's really sad, but very true.
2013-04-11 06:26:49 AM
1 votes:
Not to repeat the obvious, but the Mail has a remarkable lack of credibility.

Having said that, a few more points:

1. Whilst there are a few families like this in the UK, they are the outliers. This has come up for a lot of analysis recently, with government benefit cuts under the microscope - the number of families with > nine children, on benefits, is at most in double figures. In a population of over 60 million, this is  not very many.

2. Whilst I'm not a big fan of "Have more kids! More benefit!", there are both social and economic factors that make the current situation the least-worst alternative. Firstly, the amount of money gained from each additional child is...small. Personally I don't see how it's worth it. Secondly, as already noted above, the idea of removing benefits from people after their <x> child has a disproportionate impact on those children. Thirdly, for those advocating removing the children from the equation, it's more expensive to take them into care and maintain them that way than it would be to pay the extra benefit,  andis more disruptive to the children.

3. People in council houses rent them from the council. They don't just get 'given a house'. They do, in some way, have to pay for it. Amusingly, they will often do so through 'housing benefit', also provided by the government under certain criteria, but it's not just "Poor=Free house, waargh!" That said, people below the povery line do need somewhere to live. Or they live on the street. And start rioting. The social safety net is there both to sustain the population and keep them under control.

4. The benefits system in the UK is not, by any means, immoderately generous, when compared to other parts of Europe. Compared to the US, of course, it's practically Shangri-La, but i do hope that model is not one we would aspire to. Leaving aside the edge cases, this is a system designed to help people get back on their feet after unexpected unemployment (not exactly an unlikely occurence these days) or to help supplement a family income to make it livable and keep families out of poverty (which, overall, is good for  everyone).

5. Some of the things provided as benefits in the UK are probably covered under different names by other countries - for example, 'Child tax credit', given on birth of a child, is a 'benefit' and I can't believe there isn't a US equivalent.

6. There are some things that the US audience does not class as 'benefits' which seem outrageously beneficient to those of us elsewhere - the mortgage interest tax deduction, for example, is one every householder in the UK would give their right arm to receive. Whilst discursing on the horrors of 'welfarism', keep in mind that in many cases it's all labeling.
2013-04-11 05:22:04 AM
1 votes:
I can't get over how successfully the daily fail trolls Fark. It's a racist, bigoted rag of a publication, and still they get greenlit here every day.
2013-04-11 02:54:06 AM
1 votes:
Two children max for each woman/couple and then forced sterilization. Want more? Adopt. All countries need to make this a law.

Seriously, with the overpopulation problem and the fact that very few kids die in infancy these days, there is absolutely no reason to have more than a couple kids. None.
2013-04-10 11:47:21 PM
1 votes:
If she is doing this purely for the money (and I don't mean the money on the talk show circuit) and the government doesn't want her having more kids (they decide they don't want the population increase that much!) they could have aligned policy in a way that would have benefited everyone.  You figure, hey, this lady can't support herself and she has 2 kids.  At the rate she is going she'll have 10+.  Why don't we offer to give her the amount of money we'd give someone with 3 kids if she'll agree to get her tubes tied?

She's happy, the kids have clothes and the government saves some money.

I actually saw a pretty good argument for government funding of fertility treatments.  (Slightly off topic, but related).  Since getting embryos implanted costs so much most would-be parents get a bunch all at once.  The result is octo-mom.  The intensive care for all those preemies costs way more than if you'd offered to fund the fertility treatments for a whole slew of hopeful parents.

In the U.S., the Pro-Lifers could cut the abortion rate dramatically if they would just give out free birth control and offer real sex ed in school.

We often cut off our nose to spite our face when it comes to population policy.
2013-04-10 11:35:38 PM
1 votes:
Nah.

College doesn't teach you not to be a breeder cow.  She wanted domestic bliss of being the fat wife of a dominant and patriarchal male.  The cues are all over your story.

Which brings us to the point, when you DO have someone who doesn't need a hand up, what DO you do?  And how DO you avoid farking over the ones who aren't wastes of flesh?

Also, how do you get auto-correct to stop penis jubilee building skateboard?
2013-04-10 11:14:08 PM
1 votes:

StoPPeRmobile: Market adjustment. The pain you are experiencing is the value of your education lowering.


Perhaps we should stop selling our youth the idea that they need a degree to succeed when "the market" shows us the exact opposite is true.
2013-04-10 11:02:36 PM
1 votes:

xcv: A better way would be rewarding welfare recipients for not having additional children.


This is really a great idea in theory. Give them education and child care services while they attend school AND use birth control.

But it makes too much sense, will never happen.

What need to happen is bring back the stigma that unwed mothers and their babby daddys are scum of the earth. I mean Jevus friggin condoms are so cheap there is no excuse for getting knocked up 3 times before the age of 18.
2013-04-10 10:56:49 PM
1 votes:

Marine1: They get a better one than produce stocker at a Walmart in northeastern Missouri.


Ask any of the college graduates working multiple minimum-wage jobs just to pay off their predatory school loans.

The banks have already robbed them of their financial freedom.  I don't see how robbing them of their reproductive rights is going to help.
2013-04-10 10:53:27 PM
1 votes:

GoldSpider: Marine1: She could have stayed on at the college, gotten a degree (she would have graduated last year, in theory), and found a job that pays more than slightly above minimum wage.

In theory, everyone who graduates college gets a great job.  In theory, wealth trickles down from the job creators.


They get a better one than produce stocker at a Walmart in northeastern Missouri. At the very least, she doesn't buy that house or marry the guy that's abusive, or get pregnant with a kid she can't hope to afford.
2013-04-10 10:51:42 PM
1 votes:

Trance354: Yeah, overheard here in the states while I was at work, "I need to have another baby, Momma. Jerome its gonna leave me unless my benefits will cover his drug habit." I shiat you not, the woman who said this had 3 rug rats running around the store, one on the teat, and a Bluetooth in her ear. It was all my coworker could do to keep from falling down laughing.


Hey now, Fark Democratic Brigade tells me that no one would ever do that. Even though my cousin did the same thing...

Seriously, I am a commie socialist pinko, but there needs to be a financial incentive with benefits to NOT have kids
2013-04-10 10:51:22 PM
1 votes:

Marine1: She could have stayed on at the college, gotten a degree (she would have graduated last year, in theory), and found a job that pays more than slightly above minimum wage.


In theory, everyone who graduates college gets a great job.  In theory, wealth trickles down from the job creators.
2013-04-10 10:39:16 PM
1 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties: Now those are some farking leaches on society.  Laws of England are lacking some farking common sense.  You want to live on the dole, then you should be forced to stop at maybe three kids, maximum.  Benefits do not go up at all after that third spawning.

Every time people complain about the lazy poor in America and socialism, they need to read about shiat like this.  They are given a home and living money just for being citizens-for life!

...and they still biatch about it.


this so much
2013-04-10 10:38:55 PM
1 votes:

GoldSpider: Marine1: I don't think she has political leanings that necessarily follow a defined party line.

Not her, necessarily, but enough people that they get elected and pass policies that force people into poverty.


She wasn't forced... the college was paid for, or at least, mostly paid for. She didn't like going. The debt from the house is at least what the student debt would have been, if not more. Forget the kid.
2013-04-10 10:38:34 PM
1 votes:

Kenny B: She giving the Duggars a run for their money?

[i306.photobucket.com image 500x332]


Hey!  What does the ANG have to do with this?

I have been in the ANG for 26 years.  The only time I've ever seen the Weeniemobile in person was on Highway 49, cutting through Georgetown CA, on a twisty highway sojourn in the middle of nowhere, while visiting my family near my hometown.  Out of the blue, on a lonesome highway, the Weeniemobile appeared.  I was duly impressed. So now you produce the Weeniemobile being introduced into an ANG cargo hold....

Some kind of weird karma.  But it does not lesson my distaste for serial benefit breeders.
2013-04-10 10:36:05 PM
1 votes:

StoPPeRmobile: What about all the workers that support the beauracracy? What about their children? No one ever speaks up for them.


They're doing their job.  By and large, the system is working as intended; occasional vindictive grandstanding politician or news rag notwithstanding.
2013-04-10 10:30:39 PM
1 votes:

GoldSpider: 'Welfare should not be an alternative to work yet clearly it is for Iona Heaton. The system should help someone find employment, not subsidise them to avoid it.'

Says someone who obviously hates the poor, and children, and feels that the government has the right to restrict a mother's reproductive rights.


So what's the plan for the perfect, compassionless society of prosperity gospel and righteously forcibly sterilizing the untermensch?

Supporting this leech is unsustainable and immoral, I agree.  But what solution do you offer that does NOT give us the slums and fascisms and cold systemic abuses we've seen before?  What answer is so simple that you see no complications?
2013-04-10 10:30:39 PM
1 votes:

Marine1: I don't think she has political leanings that necessarily follow a defined party line.


Not her, necessarily, but enough people that they get elected and pass policies that force people into poverty.
2013-04-10 10:18:28 PM
1 votes:
I have someone that moved back to Canada from the UK and was proud she earned the highest baby check she could get.  She has a free vehicle from her parents and lives in the most expensive part of town.  And she wants more kids in my dime.
2013-04-10 10:15:45 PM
1 votes:
Yeah, overheard here in the states while I was at work, "I need to have another baby, Momma. Jerome its gonna leave me unless my benefits will cover his drug habit." I shiat you not, the woman who said this had 3 rug rats running around the store, one on the teat, and a Bluetooth in her ear. It was all my coworker could do to keep from falling down laughing.
2013-04-10 10:09:40 PM
1 votes:

swingerofbirches: This article

tabloid assumes no critical thinking on the part of the reader.

You are talking about the Daily Fail, after all.
2013-04-10 10:07:39 PM
1 votes:
Sometimes.....sometimes forced sterilization sounds like a really good farking idea.
2013-04-10 10:04:21 PM
1 votes:

frozenhotchocolate: England much like many European nations is generous with incentives to mothers because their birthrate is so low. This is better than importing immigrants that will live off the dole anyways but not assimilate into society as easily.


Will any of them grow up to be hard-working taxpayers?
2013-04-10 10:03:25 PM
1 votes:

Bhruic: AdolfOliverPanties: You want to live on the dole, then you should be forced to stop at maybe three kids, maximum.  Benefits do not go up at all after that third spawning.

Honest question - how do they stop it?  Force abortions on women who get pregnant after 3 kids?  Just stop giving them money, so that the kids end up suffering?  There's no good answer to the problem that doesn't end up hurting the children more than the parents.  And the kids are innocent.


"Forced sterilization" is usually the first answer, followed by "cut off benefits" if told the first option is barbaric.

I find the question too morally difficult and usually punt with snark
2013-04-10 10:00:12 PM
1 votes:

Clock Spider Jerusalem: The Snow Dog: So a dude can have sex with a retarded woman and NOT have it be rape? Gross. How is this not illegal?

a friend of mine was an orderly as a hospital where one patient was a woman who has fairly profound brain damage from a traffic accident. her psycho husband was discovered to be having sex with her when he visited, leaving the mess for the nurses to clean up. they reported him, not sure whether he was ever charged.


Just: Wo-[hork]-w.
2013-04-10 09:57:23 PM
1 votes:
3.bp.blogspot.com
2013-04-10 09:51:32 PM
1 votes:
AdolfOliverPanties:
Every time people complain about the lazy poor in America and socialism, they need to read about shiat like this.  They are given a home and living money just for being citizens-for life!

...and they still biatch about it.


also the Daily Mail likes to make this kind of shiat up. Without having read the article I'd say there's a pretty good chance that the mother in question is a racial minority.
2013-04-10 09:50:37 PM
1 votes:
Every sperm is sacred?

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
2013-04-10 09:49:56 PM
1 votes:

Bhruic: AdolfOliverPanties: You want to live on the dole, then you should be forced to stop at maybe three kids, maximum.  Benefits do not go up at all after that third spawning.

Honest question - how do they stop it?  Force abortions on women who get pregnant after 3 kids?  Just stop giving them money, so that the kids end up suffering?  There's no good answer to the problem that doesn't end up hurting the children more than the parents.  And the kids are innocent.


Forced sterilization if you are on handouts for all three.

I'm all in favor of everyone deserving to have one child even in less than favorable financial circumstances. Heck, I'd like one myself before I run out of good eggs, but it costs a fortune for a fertility clinic here, and I'm not in a relationship, don't want to play "baby roulette" with random people.Not to mention I have to work.So I probably don't get to have one. So needless to say, stuff like this infuriates me. I definitely think some people should be sterilized particularly if they keep having kids others have to pay for.
2013-04-10 09:45:27 PM
1 votes:
The Daily Mail stoking outrage about welfare queens? Must be a day ending in "Y".

/dnrtfa
2013-04-10 09:44:16 PM
1 votes:
There was a family in our neighborhood that had twelve kids, a couple of which were close to me in age; the smell of urine never left their home. So, I hate kids. Well, just the little ones. Once they stop pissing all over themselves and become human I can tolerate them. If I must. . . .

/Git off my lawn (ya disgusting l'il barstids!).
2013-04-10 09:44:13 PM
1 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties: You want to live on the dole, then you should be forced to stop at maybe three kids, maximum.  Benefits do not go up at all after that third spawning.


Honest question - how do they stop it?  Force abortions on women who get pregnant after 3 kids?  Just stop giving them money, so that the kids end up suffering?  There's no good answer to the problem that doesn't end up hurting the children more than the parents.  And the kids are innocent.
2013-04-10 09:37:28 PM
1 votes:

frozenhotchocolate: England much like many European nations is generous with incentives to mothers because their birthrate is so low. This is better than importing immigrants that will live off the dole anyways but not assimilate into society as easily.


True, I mean at least she's white.

/surprise racism
2013-04-10 09:36:48 PM
1 votes:

orange storm: Miss Heaton's eldest three - Sean, 25, Jade, 18, herself a new mother, and Shannon, 17, who is pregnant - are from a previous relationship.

The apple did not fall from the tree


Sounds like dad likes them young and pregnant to me.
 
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