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(CBS New York)   Wife goes over a cliff, falling 120 feet in 2.74 seconds. If she landed 52 feet from the base of the cliff, did she stumble or was she pushed by her husband, who was philandering at a rate of 20 affairs per marriage?   (newyork.cbslocal.com) divider line 88
    More: Interesting, CBS, New Jersey, Englewood Cliffs  
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8471 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Apr 2013 at 4:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-10 05:47:44 PM

BarkingUnicorn: FTFA:
Kellinger and two other people coming to Stephen Scharf's defense said if Jody Ann had been pushed from the rocks, she would have landed closer to the base of the cliff. Instead, her body was found 52 feet out.
"If I push somebody, they're only going to go a few feet per second," Kellinger said.

I think he's got it backwards.  Push somebody and she'll gain horizontal velocity.  She'll land further out, not closer.


Nah, I think they are comparing to her taking a running start and jumping.  Pushing means her horizontal velocity would be lower.
 
2013-04-10 05:50:22 PM
And another thing! WTF kind of physicist is this?

Kellinger and two other people coming to Stephen Scharf's defense said if Jody Ann had been pushed from the rocks, she would have landed closer to the base of the cliff. Instead, her body was found 52 feet out.
"If I push somebody, they're only going to go a few feet per second," Kellinger said.
But Kellinger said Jody Ann was moving a lot faster, which he claimed pointed either to a suicide or confirmed Stephen Scharf's version of what happened.


How the hell would her body accelerate differently based on whether she tripped or was pushed? That makes no sense.

And if he means the lateral velocity - just how farking fast does he expect she'd be going if she tripped? Does he think she tripped at a run or something - because that isn't the guy's story. I don't see how being shoved when you're at the edge of a cliff would be all that radically much different of a lateral speed then stepping back into air of your own volition.
 
2013-04-10 05:54:24 PM
Yes
 
2013-04-10 06:07:32 PM

R.A.Danny: Lady Indica: He told multiple stories as to what had happened, and changing one's story that dramatically tends to indicate to investigators and a jury that they're a liar. Add in the circumstantial evidence (numerous affairs, troubled marriage, fact that they were discussing said troubled marriage when she died) plus physical evidence and there was enough for a murder conviction.

So seemingly he got himself more than anything else. Amazing how shutting the hell up is the best course of action 99.99% of the time.


Yup. Innocent or guilty your best bet is always to STFU and get a lawyer. The ONLY exception I'd ever make to this is if someone's life were in immediate danger, I would want to aid in any way I could and (because I would be innocent, duh) if there were personal consequences I'd deal with them later. Otherwise, fark off, I want a lawyer.
 
2013-04-10 06:10:04 PM
I'm your husband
I'm your man
I'm the cheater with a plan
Let's go talk
Let's go riff
Hang out here on this cliff

I'm your pusher.
I'm your pusher.

/tryin' to get over....
 
2013-04-10 06:12:27 PM

hdhale: Mongo No.5: a two handed push especially with a few steps into it, could accelerate a smaller person to 15mph no problem.

You are standing near a cliff.  Human instinct puts you a bit on guard.  Getting involved in an argument with your cheating spouse, even more so.  If someone is resisting, you don't simply shove them out that far.  Now if she was looking out over the cliff and he ran up and caught her by surprise?  Now we're into the plausible realm.


Another scenario. He's male, bigger and stronger, especially in upper body strength. They're arguing, fighting. She tries to leave. He grabs her and tries to get her to continue. They struggle, they're both angry and upset. He swings her around by the arm...and throws her off the cliff in the struggle.

Many ways it might have happened, only one way it actually did...and the one person who could give us the best idea has lied repeatedly about it.
 
2013-04-10 06:24:39 PM
Subby fails at physics. 120 feet in 2.74 seconds? Dude there are only 2 significant figures in 120.

/pedantic?
 
2013-04-10 06:30:20 PM

rwfan: Subby fails at physics. 120 feet in 2.74 seconds? Dude there are only 2 significant figures in 120.

/pedantic?


nice.  I've always argued that if you rounded to get to the 0, then you should be able to treat it like 3.  Significant digit rules are stupid.
 
2013-04-10 06:32:38 PM
pushed, fell. or jumped.
/beyond a shadow of a doubt
 
2013-04-10 06:39:08 PM

vudukungfu: pushed, fell. or jumped.
/beyond a shadow of a doubt


Or maybe Glenn Beck raped and murdered her, I'm just asking questions here.
 
2013-04-10 06:42:55 PM

BarkingUnicorn: FTFA:
Kellinger and two other people coming to Stephen Scharf's defense said if Jody Ann had been pushed from the rocks, she would have landed closer to the base of the cliff. Instead, her body was found 52 feet out.
"If I push somebody, they're only going to go a few feet per second," Kellinger said.

I think he's got it backwards.  Push somebody and she'll gain horizontal velocity.  She'll land further out, not closer.


I think his argument is that she staggered, under her own power, back over the edge.  You know how if you trip over something you can stagger forward(or backward) really fast?

Whereas if you're standing still and someone gives you a push, you'll only lose balance and maybe take one step back, and her case over the edge.

His story doesn't account for what might happen if she at the edge looking forward, and he runs up behind her and shoves her hard and unexpectedly.   I bet in that scenario she'd go farthest forward.
 
2013-04-10 07:00:08 PM

Birnone: I think his argument is that she staggered, under her own power, back over the edge.  You know how if you trip over something you can stagger forward(or backward) really fast?

Whereas if you're standing still and someone gives you a push, you'll only lose balance and maybe take one step back, and her case over the edge.

His story doesn't account for what might happen if she at the edge looking forward, and he runs up behind her and shoves her hard and unexpectedly.   I bet in that scenario she'd go farthest forward.


When you push somebody, they dont actually get much backward momentum.  Its more of a "tipping over" effect.  Seems more likely she was moving at speed... such as if she lost her shiat and leaped off. (ever had a crazy girlfriend threaten suicide over a breakup?)

However.... the guys story is all over the place, so meh.  Who knows.
 
2013-04-10 07:04:46 PM

Glancing Blow: There's only one way to know for sure:
[mestechko.info image 552x491]


7.asset.soup.io

Better.

Also, if your spouse is cheating on you and you are preparing to divorce the correct answer to "hey honey, let's go mountain climbing" is "no".

Learn from this guy's mistake...

3.bp.blogspot.com

And from the woman in TFA as well.

/Just leave!
 
2013-04-10 07:06:15 PM
Thinking about this, I realized that I've really forgotten my kinematics.

Say she weighed 60kg (132 lbs), and moved a horizontal distance of 15.8m (52 feet), over 2.74 seconds (derived from the vertical distance fallen s=vt + 1/2at2 [where initial vertical velocity is 0]).

Average horizontal velocity is 5.77 m/sec (s=vt; 15.8m = v*2.74sec; v = 5.77m/sec, or 13mph, as stated above)

However, if we assume she was at zero horizontal velocity by the time she hit the ground (to get the minimum force needed to reach 52 feet), this complicates things, since she's decelerating due to air resistance. This would also mean initial velocity was higher, since 5.77 m/sec is the average.

Now, here's where I'm running into problems. Can we determine initial horizontal velocity, given final velocity of zero, distance and time? If we use s=1/2at2 to find the deceleration of the wife:

15.8m = 1/2 * a * 2.74sec2
a = 4.21m/sec2 (actually, -4.21m/sec2 since it's deceleration)

velocityfinal = velocityinitial + acceleration * time

0 = vi+ -4.21m/sec2 * 2.74 sec
vi = 11.54 m/sec (25.8 mph)

Once we have initial velocity (if my math was right), we can get KE and momentum. But how do we get the force needed for the push? F=ma -- we have m (60kg), but how do you get acceleration? Can you just use initial velocity?

Any physicists out there who know the answer and can show the work?
 
2013-04-10 07:11:44 PM
What about bumping into irregularities of the cliff, on the way down?  Can any of you smarties determine if the right series of bounces could propel her body horizontally enough for 52 feet?  I'm guessing it's not possible, but seemed worthwhile to ask (inasmuch as any of this is worthwhile, anyhow).
 
2013-04-10 07:16:28 PM
I'm no scientician, but I did see this particular episode of Cold Case Files and this guy is farking guilty six days a week and twice on Sunday.
 
2013-04-10 07:20:01 PM

Bill_Wick's_Friend: I'm your husband
I'm your man
I'm the cheater with a plan
Let's go talk
Let's go riff
Hang out here on this cliff

I'm your pusher.
I'm your pusher.

/tryin' to get over....


I appreciate the effort that you put into that comment.
+1 good sir.

/loves me some Mayfield
 
2013-04-10 07:21:52 PM

TreeHugger: What about bumping into irregularities of the cliff, on the way down?  Can any of you smarties determine if the right series of bounces could propel her body horizontally enough for 52 feet?  I'm guessing it's not possible, but seemed worthwhile to ask (inasmuch as any of this is worthwhile, anyhow).


That could do it but would be very easy to check by looking at the site. (Don't stand too close to the edge).
 
2013-04-10 07:22:55 PM

Joelogon: Thinking about this, I realized that I've really forgotten my kinematics.

Say she weighed 60kg (132 lbs), and moved a horizontal distance of 15.8m (52 feet), over 2.74 seconds (derived from the vertical distance fallen s=vt + 1/2at2 [where initial vertical velocity is 0]).

Average horizontal velocity is 5.77 m/sec (s=vt; 15.8m = v*2.74sec; v = 5.77m/sec, or 13mph, as stated above)

However, if we assume she was at zero horizontal velocity by the time she hit the ground (to get the minimum force needed to reach 52 feet), this complicates things, since she's decelerating due to air resistance. This would also mean initial velocity was higher, since 5.77 m/sec is the average.

Now, here's where I'm running into problems. Can we determine initial horizontal velocity, given final velocity of zero, distance and time? If we use s=1/2at2 to find the deceleration of the wife:

15.8m = 1/2 * a * 2.74sec2
a = 4.21m/sec2 (actually, -4.21m/sec2 since it's deceleration)

velocityfinal = velocityinitial + acceleration * time

0 = vi+ -4.21m/sec2 * 2.74 sec
vi = 11.54 m/sec (25.8 mph)

Once we have initial velocity (if my math was right), we can get KE and momentum. But how do we get the force needed for the push? F=ma -- we have m (60kg), but how do you get acceleration? Can you just use initial velocity?

Any physicists out there who know the answer and can show the work?


In high school physics, I always started with energy.  KE = force of push = m*a*d, where d is the distance she moved during the push (IE: I can give you a long, slow steady push, or a short, fast push and you'll be at the same velocity either way).
 
2013-04-10 07:40:42 PM
Made me think of this:

Now, when you're going down a mountain road at 150 miles
an hour you gotta be very careful, especially if you're playin'
a guitar. Especially if that guitar is an acoustic guitar.
Because if it's an acoustic guitar, the wind pressure is greater
on the box side than on the neck side, because there's
more guitar on the box side. I wasn't payin' attention ...

Luckily I didn't go into the mountain -- I went over the cliff.
I was goin' 150 miles an hour sideways and 500 feet down
at the same time.
 
2013-04-10 07:51:23 PM

madgonad: The fastest person on earth, Usain Bolt, can only go 23mph.


27.8 (http://speedendurance.com/2012/08/04/usain-bolt-mph-top-speed/ )

23 mph is his average over the entire race, not his peak speed.
 
2013-04-10 07:53:39 PM

mongbiohazard: How the hell would her body accelerate differently based on whether she tripped or was pushed? That makes no sense.

And if he means the lateral velocity - just how farking fast does he expect she'd be going if she tripped? Does he think she tripped at a run or something - because that isn't the guy's story. I don't see how being shoved when you're at the edge of a cliff would be all that radically much different of a lateral speed then stepping back into air of your own volition.


Lateral velocity isn't being accelerated. People who land a long horizontal distance from a fall are typically suicides or the extremely drunk. They took a running leap.
 
2013-04-10 08:06:17 PM
You don't bury the survivors.
 
2013-04-10 08:31:08 PM

Lady Indica: hdhale: Mongo No.5: a two handed push especially with a few steps into it, could accelerate a smaller person to 15mph no problem.

You are standing near a cliff.  Human instinct puts you a bit on guard.  Getting involved in an argument with your cheating spouse, even more so.  If someone is resisting, you don't simply shove them out that far.  Now if she was looking out over the cliff and he ran up and caught her by surprise?  Now we're into the plausible realm.

Another scenario. He's male, bigger and stronger, especially in upper body strength. They're arguing, fighting. She tries to leave. He grabs her and tries to get her to continue. They struggle, they're both angry and upset. He swings her around by the arm...and throws her off the cliff in the struggle.

Many ways it might have happened, only one way it actually did...and the one person who could give us the best idea has lied repeatedly about it.


Ahh, your scenario. It seems highly likely. He didn't push her, but instead flung her around by the arm -- then she lost her footing, he just let her fly. He knows he's responsible for her death, but feels like he's telling the truth when he says he didn't "push" her, among other stories.
 
2013-04-10 08:42:05 PM
imgace.com
 
2013-04-10 08:42:57 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Joelogon: First, assume a spherical wife...

/stubmitter

Oh my God! That bowling ball, it's my wife!


No anchovies, please.
 
2013-04-10 08:43:27 PM

Mrs.Sharpier: Bill_Wick's_Friend: I'm your husband
I'm your man
I'm the cheater with a plan
Let's go talk
Let's go riff
Hang out here on this cliff

I'm your pusher.
I'm your pusher.

/tryin' to get over....

I appreciate the effort that you put into that comment.
+1 good sir.

/loves me some Mayfield


Interesting, I interpreted it as a riff on that Merredith Brooks song from the 90's "I'm a biatch"
In my head it works too.
Here's the chorus for reference:

I'm a biatch,I'm a lover,I'm a child,I'm a mother,I'm a sinner,I'm a saint,and I do not feel ashamed
 
2013-04-10 08:44:54 PM

This text is now purple: mongbiohazard: How the hell would her body accelerate differently based on whether she tripped or was pushed? That makes no sense.

And if he means the lateral velocity - just how farking fast does he expect she'd be going if she tripped? Does he think she tripped at a run or something - because that isn't the guy's story. I don't see how being shoved when you're at the edge of a cliff would be all that radically much different of a lateral speed then stepping back into air of your own volition.

Lateral velocity isn't being accelerated. People who land a long horizontal distance from a fall are typically suicides or the extremely drunk. They took a running leap.



That's what I was saying. The physicist doesn't seem to be making sense. Maybe he's the cousin of mistress #20...
 
2013-04-10 08:46:22 PM

you have pee hands: He's 62, I'd bet he couldn't hit 15 mph in a dead sprint and even if he did he'd probably go over too.


He's 62 NOW.  At the time of her murder, he was 41.  I ran my first marathon at age 45, so he definitely could be fit enough.
 
2013-04-10 09:09:06 PM
Ladies, this is what happens when there is no butt secks.
 
2013-04-10 09:33:00 PM

Joelogon: First, assume a spherical wife...

/stubmitter


31 years since my last HS physics class, I still snorted Pepsi out of my nose.
 
2013-04-10 09:43:56 PM
i.qkme.me
 
2013-04-10 09:47:22 PM
The only way we will know for sure whether or not this dude killed his wife is to allow him to return to the scene of the crime and demonstrate "that quick shuffle step," preferably in the exact same spot the victim was before her "accident."
 
2013-04-10 09:52:29 PM
images.sodahead.com
 
2013-04-10 10:06:53 PM

whither_apophis: 52' / 2.74 sec = 19'/second = 1140'/minute = 13 mph. Pushed or a got a running start.


My wife is tiny and I can't imagine being able to push her at 13 mph.
 
2013-04-10 11:39:49 PM

Loren: whither_apophis: 52' / 2.74 sec = 19'/second = 1140'/minute = 13 mph. Pushed or a got a running start.

My wife is tiny and I can't imagine being able to push her at 13 mph.


How old are you?  I'm guessing if you are Farking you still have time to start training.  The unimaginable is just a goal you haven't committed to yet.

www.seminarinsiders.com
 
2013-04-11 02:32:37 AM
I vote catapult.  Yep that's how he got her out that far.  No pushing involved.  Swinging.  And not the fun kind.
 
2013-04-11 03:36:42 AM

lennavan: BarkingUnicorn: FTFA:
Kellinger and two other people coming to Stephen Scharf's defense said if Jody Ann had been pushed from the rocks, she would have landed closer to the base of the cliff. Instead, her body was found 52 feet out.
"If I push somebody, they're only going to go a few feet per second," Kellinger said.

I think he's got it backwards.  Push somebody and she'll gain horizontal velocity.  She'll land further out, not closer.

Nah, I think they are comparing to her taking a running start and jumping.  Pushing means her horizontal velocity would be lower.


This.
 
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