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(Deadspin)   What it's like to be LeBron: "OK, I'm on the break, jumped a little early but that's all right, I'll just pass to...Mike Miller? Screw that, I'll just do this myself"   (deadspin.com) divider line 59
    More: Cool, LeBron James  
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2245 clicks; posted to Sports » on 10 Apr 2013 at 11:31 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-10 10:45:06 AM  
He's smooth... like silk; like a glass of milk.  He's smooth... how ya doin'?
 
2013-04-10 11:12:02 AM  
No reason to hate on Miller. Ellis played the break well, and cut off the pass.
 
2013-04-10 11:39:19 AM  
That was not a shot attempt, how is that not a travel?
 
2013-04-10 11:40:12 AM  

babysealclubber: That was not a shot attempt, how is that not a travel?


1. It's the NBA.
2. It's Lebron.
 
2013-04-10 11:42:58 AM  

EyeballKid: babysealclubber: That was not a shot attempt, how is that not a travel?

1. It's the NBA.
2. It's Lebron.


I'm being completely serious. Can anyone explain? If they want to call the pass off the backboard a shot, then it's not traveling. But if they're not, it has to be a pass, and you can't be the first person to touch the ball after you attempt a pass.
 
2013-04-10 11:48:58 AM  

babysealclubber: EyeballKid: babysealclubber: That was not a shot attempt, how is that not a travel?

1. It's the NBA.
2. It's Lebron.

I'm being completely serious. Can anyone explain? If they want to call the pass off the backboard a shot, then it's not traveling. But if they're not, it has to be a pass, and you can't be the first person to touch the ball after you attempt a pass.


As far as I know it is a travel. But the NBA stopped calling traveling in the 80s.
 
2013-04-10 11:51:26 AM  

babysealclubber: EyeballKid: babysealclubber: That was not a shot attempt, how is that not a travel?

1. It's the NBA.
2. It's Lebron.

I'm being completely serious. Can anyone explain? If they want to call the pass off the backboard a shot, then it's not traveling. But if they're not, it has to be a pass, and you can't be the first person to touch the ball after you attempt a pass.


It was made legal a few years ago as long as it hit the backboard or rim or other player
 
2013-04-10 11:53:34 AM  

MugzyBrown: babysealclubber: EyeballKid: babysealclubber: That was not a shot attempt, how is that not a travel?

1. It's the NBA.
2. It's Lebron.

I'm being completely serious. Can anyone explain? If they want to call the pass off the backboard a shot, then it's not traveling. But if they're not, it has to be a pass, and you can't be the first person to touch the ball after you attempt a pass.

It was made legal a few years ago as long as it hit the backboard or rim or other player


Seriously? Wow. I guess you can't let pesky things like rules get in the way of good entertainment.
 
2013-04-10 11:58:59 AM  

babysealclubber: Seriously? Wow. I guess you can't let pesky things like rules get in the way of good entertainment.


It's been legal forever, and it's part of keeping the rules consistent. Basically, possession is determined by what the ball last touched - as long as the ball touches another person, the court, the basketball, the rim, ANYTHING within the legal playing area, then the number of steps you can take gets reset. Normally, the ball hits the court (also known as a dribble). Often, it hits the rim (offensive rebound). Why shouldn't it be legal off the backboard?
 
2013-04-10 12:03:56 PM  
And scoring-wise, it's basically considered a dribble off the backboard.

/I suppose you could make the argument that it should be considered a double-dribble since he used both hands in the air before tossing it off the backboard
//I'd also point out that rules are often changed in sports in order to make the games more interesting, so your condescension "pesky rules" is ridiculous
 
2013-04-10 12:05:29 PM  
Definition of Field Goal Attempt: "A field goal attempt is a player's attempt to shoot the ball into his basket for a field goal..." NBA Rules

Explanation of Traveling: "A player who attempts a field goal may not be the first to touch the ball if it fails to touch the backboard, basket ring or another player." More NBA Rules

LeBron did not attempt to shoot the ball into the basket. He tried to bounce the ball off the backboard back to himself. This means it was not a Field Goal Attempt. Traveling.
 
2013-04-10 12:06:59 PM  

IAmRight: And scoring-wise, it's basically considered a dribble off the backboard.


I'd score it as a missed shot (he basically "bricked" it), and an offensive rebound.  Either way, definitely not a travel.  A genius play, actually.
 
2013-04-10 12:08:52 PM  

babysealclubber: EyeballKid: babysealclubber: That was not a shot attempt, how is that not a travel?

1. It's the NBA.
2. It's Lebron.

I'm being completely serious. Can anyone explain? If they want to call the pass off the backboard a shot, then it's not traveling. But if they're not, it has to be a pass, and you can't be the first person to touch the ball after you attempt a pass.


It wasn't a pass, it was a dribble off the backboard.
 
2013-04-10 12:09:33 PM  

IAmRight: babysealclubber: Seriously? Wow. I guess you can't let pesky things like rules get in the way of good entertainment.

It's been legal forever, and it's part of keeping the rules consistent. Basically, possession is determined by what the ball last touched - as long as the ball touches another person, the court, the basketball, the rim, ANYTHING within the legal playing area, then the number of steps you can take gets reset. Normally, the ball hits the court (also known as a dribble). Often, it hits the rim (offensive rebound). Why shouldn't it be legal off the backboard?


Because it's a pass to yourself. When Kobe did it in 2004, Stu Jackson said it should have been a travel, because you can't pass to yourself. It's possible they've changed the rule since then, though.

IAmRight: And scoring-wise, it's basically considered a dribble off the backboard.


How can he dribble off of the backboard after he picks up his dribble and takes his steps? Wouldn't that be a double dribble?

IAmRight: condescension "pesky rules" is ridiculous


No, not really. To me, not being able to pass to yourself is a fundamental rule to the game.
 
2013-04-10 12:09:57 PM  

paswa17: LeBron did not attempt to shoot the ball into the basket.


Can't really prove that. Lord knows there are enough "shots" after fouls are called that are rewarded, with no real effort to actually make the shot.

"Huh, oh yeah, I was totally planning on shooting a 30-footer from my waist five seconds into the shot clock! That's in no way an attempt to get three foul shots instead of just getting to take the ball from out-of-bounds!"
 
2013-04-10 12:10:24 PM  

Alphakronik: babysealclubber: EyeballKid: babysealclubber: That was not a shot attempt, how is that not a travel?

1. It's the NBA.
2. It's Lebron.

I'm being completely serious. Can anyone explain? If they want to call the pass off the backboard a shot, then it's not traveling. But if they're not, it has to be a pass, and you can't be the first person to touch the ball after you attempt a pass.

It wasn't a pass, it was a dribble off the backboard.


After he picked up his dribble and took his steps? Double dribble then.
 
2013-04-10 12:10:45 PM  

babysealclubber: MugzyBrown: babysealclubber: EyeballKid: babysealclubber: That was not a shot attempt, how is that not a travel?

1. It's the NBA.
2. It's Lebron.

I'm being completely serious. Can anyone explain? If they want to call the pass off the backboard a shot, then it's not traveling. But if they're not, it has to be a pass, and you can't be the first person to touch the ball after you attempt a pass.

It was made legal a few years ago as long as it hit the backboard or rim or other player

Seriously? Wow. I guess you can't let pesky things like rules get in the way of good entertainment.


You thought that the NBA was something other than an entertainment company?

Oh, honey....
 
2013-04-10 12:12:16 PM  

babysealclubber: Because it's a pass to yourself. When Kobe did it in 2004, Stu Jackson said it should have been a travel, because you can't pass to yourself. It's possible they've changed the rule since then, though.


And yet it wasn't one, was it? Nor was it illegal when Tracy McGrady did it in the All-Star Game (though he caught it in mid-air and dunked it, so I don't think there would have ever been an argument against that one.

babysealclubber: No, not really. To me, not being able to pass to yourself is a fundamental rule to the game.


To me, any basketball played without a bottom to the peach basket is bullsh*t. Climbing the ladder to get the ball back is a fundamental part of the game.
 
2013-04-10 12:12:33 PM  

Alphakronik: babysealclubber: MugzyBrown: babysealclubber: EyeballKid: babysealclubber: That was not a shot attempt, how is that not a travel?

1. It's the NBA.
2. It's Lebron.

I'm being completely serious. Can anyone explain? If they want to call the pass off the backboard a shot, then it's not traveling. But if they're not, it has to be a pass, and you can't be the first person to touch the ball after you attempt a pass.

It was made legal a few years ago as long as it hit the backboard or rim or other player

Seriously? Wow. I guess you can't let pesky things like rules get in the way of good entertainment.

You thought that the NBA was something other than an entertainment company?

Oh, honey....


I know it is. I just don't have to like it.
 
2013-04-10 12:16:04 PM  

IAmRight: And yet it wasn't one, was it? Nor was it illegal when Tracy McGrady did it in the All-Star Game (though he caught it in mid-air and dunked it, so I don't think there would have ever been an argument against that one.


Which part of me saying Stu Jackson said it should have been called a travel did you not read? And McGrady doing it in the All-Star game doesn't matter. It's the All-Star Game, it's an exhibition, of course certain rules will be suspended in order for entertainment.


IAmRight: To me, any basketball played without a bottom to the peach basket is bullsh*t. Climbing the ladder to get the ball back is a fundamental part of the game.


Yet that's not even in the original rules, much less ever being a written rule. You're just being ridiculous.
 
2013-04-10 12:16:44 PM  

paswa17: Definition of Field Goal Attempt: "A field goal attempt is a player's attempt to shoot the ball into his basket for a field goal..." NBA Rules

Explanation of Traveling: "A player who attempts a field goal may not be the first to touch the ball if it fails to touch the backboard, basket ring or another player." More NBA Rules

LeBron did not attempt to shoot the ball into the basket. He tried to bounce the ball off the backboard back to himself. This means it was not a Field Goal Attempt. Traveling.


He never simultaneously touched the ground and the ball after he threw it at the backboard.  Not travelling.
 
2013-04-10 12:18:46 PM  
 
2013-04-10 12:19:44 PM  

paswa17: I rescind my argument.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/26902/legalized-passing-t o- yourself


Thank you. That's all I wanted. None of my searches were finding anything like that.
 
2013-04-10 12:20:58 PM  

paswa17: I rescind my argument.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/26902/legalized-passing-t o- yourself


I wonder when the rule change occurred. Apparently sometime between 2001 and 2011, and if Mark Cuban is to be believed, after 2004.
 
2013-04-10 12:22:23 PM  
Surely this thing has never happened before, and it's limited to the NBA!

Link 1 Link 2

Do you need me to provide more?

/if you never watch the sport, please don't come in and talk about how everyone's breaking the rules
 
2013-04-10 12:24:35 PM  
I stand by the position that it should be travelling.

Question: Can you run with the ball, without dribbling, so long as you hold the ball against a defender or touch a defender with it before every third step?
 
2013-04-10 12:28:27 PM  

IAmRight: /if you never watch the sport, please don't come in and talk about how everyone's breaking the rules


I didn't say anyone was breaking the rules. I asked how it wasn't a travel. I didn't come in saying, "LEBRON WOULD GET AWAY WITH THAT!!! CRAB DRIBBLE LOLZ GUISE AMIRITE?" Perhaps you take a break from being a condescending twat and actually read my questions. Because I'm pretty sure that when someone said 1.Lebron 2.NBA I said I was being serious and wanted to know.
 
2013-04-10 12:28:59 PM  
Dunk was weak sauce. LeBroni has had 1,000 better dunks with his eyes closed.
 
2013-04-10 12:29:47 PM  

paswa17: I stand by the position that it should be travelling.


Yeah, I kind of do too. Even though I see the problem of differentiating between an actual shot attempt and a purposeful pass.
 
2013-04-10 12:32:09 PM  

IAmRight: Surely this thing has never happened before, and it's limited to the NBA!

Link 1 Link 2

Do you need me to provide more?

/if you never watch the sport, please don't come in and talk about how everyone's breaking the rules


Yeah, I'm such a dumbass for not watching a Maryland Eastern Shore vs. Hampton game.
 
2013-04-10 12:35:13 PM  

babysealclubber: I didn't say anyone was breaking the rules. I asked how it wasn't a travel.


This has been covered in dozens of threads about dunks that are passes to oneself off the backboard. It's happened several times this year alone.

babysealclubber: Yeah, I'm such a dumbass for not watching a Maryland Eastern Shore vs. Hampton game.


The point is that you can google off the backboard dunk and you will find hundreds of videos, from HS to small-school ball to DI ball to the NBA where people have done this within the last couple of months.

paswa17: Question: Can you run with the ball, without dribbling, so long as you hold the ball against a defender or touch a defender with it before every third step?


No, because you still have your hands on it (and therefore possession). You could do it by throwing the ball off a defender every couple of steps, but you're going to get the ball taken away from you, so no one's going to do that.
 
2013-04-10 12:41:46 PM  

IAmRight: This has been covered in dozens of threads about dunks that are passes to oneself off the backboard. It's happened several times this year alone.


Oh really? I missed a Fark thread? The horror. It's a good thing I didn't take a break from Fark for a greater part of the last 6 months.

IAmRight: The point is that you can google off the backboard dunk and you will find hundreds of videos, from HS to small-school ball to DI ball to the NBA where people have done this within the last couple of months.


Which does not answer the question about how it's not a travel. I can watch videos of Greg Paulus flopping all day, that doesn't make it legal. They added in the rule to the NBA rule book in the past decade, which explains why it's not a travel. They specifically added that a player couldn't catch his own pass unless it hit the backboard, rim, or another player. All I have ever known is that the backboard/rim clause applied to actual shot attempts. That''s all I wanted.
 
2013-04-10 12:53:39 PM  

babysealclubber: They added in the rule to the NBA rule book in the past decade, which explains why it's not a travel. They specifically added that a player couldn't catch his own pass unless it hit the backboard, rim, or another player.


Congrats on coming into a basketball thread, complaining that a call should have been made even though the rule you're claiming is being broken hasn't been a rule for several years, then implying it's ridiculous that your beloved rule that is so important to you (with this game that you love so much that you didn't know about the fact that it's been legal for years) has been changed "for good entertainment."

/and that's the way the rule should always have been anyway - it's stupid to have rules that you can pass to yourself off of some objects and not others.
//and all players should be eligible receivers in the NFL, FWIW
 
2013-04-10 12:55:30 PM  
So, people think you can travel in mid-air? Cool beans.

If he landed with possession of the ball, it would be a travel. He didn't do that, though.
 
2013-04-10 12:56:01 PM  

babysealclubber: IAmRight: To me, any basketball played without a bottom to the peach basket is bullsh*t. Climbing the ladder to get the ball back is a fundamental part of the game.

Yet that's not even in the original rules, much less ever being a written rule. You're just being ridiculous.



The fact that you Americans don't get to see this Heritage Moment on a regular basis is just a shame

/"But I need these baskets back..!"
 
2013-04-10 01:06:42 PM  

IAmRight: Congrats on coming into a basketball thread, complaining that a call should have been made


Except that's not what I did. I asked someone to explain how that's not a travel. Like I said before, I didn't come in here guns a blazin' yelling that LeBron gets away with whatever he wants. Here are my two questions since reading the thread is apparently below you:

babysealclubber: That was not a shot attempt, how is that not a travel?


babysealclubber: I'm being completely serious. Can anyone explain? If they want to call the pass off the backboard a shot, then it's not traveling. But if they're not, it has to be a pass, and you can't be the first person to touch the ball after you attempt a pass.


Notice the lack of complaining about a broken rule.

I can say all of this again, but I can't understand it for you.
 
2013-04-10 01:08:15 PM  

Loomy: babysealclubber: IAmRight: To me, any basketball played without a bottom to the peach basket is bullsh*t. Climbing the ladder to get the ball back is a fundamental part of the game.

Yet that's not even in the original rules, much less ever being a written rule. You're just being ridiculous.


The fact that you Americans don't get to see this Heritage Moment on a regular basis is just a shame

/"But I need these baskets back..!"


That's awesome.
 
2013-04-10 01:09:17 PM  

IAmRight: No, because you still have your hands on it (and therefore possession). You could do it by throwing the ball off a defender every couple of steps, but you're going to get the ball taken away from you, so no one's going to do that.


The somewhat similar "Inbound off an inattentive defender's back, make open layup" trick is hilarious, though.
 
2013-04-10 01:54:01 PM  

babysealclubber: Which does not answer the question about how it's not a travel. I can watch videos of Greg Paulus flopping all day, that doesn't make it legal. They added in the rule to the NBA rule book in the past decade, which explains why it's not a travel. They specifically added that a player couldn't catch his own pass unless it hit the backboard, rim, or another player. All I have ever known is that the backboard/rim clause applied to actual shot attempts. That''s all I wanted.


Here's the thing, how can you tell the difference between a bad shot that misses the rim but hits the backboard and a pass off the backboard?
 
2013-04-10 01:55:22 PM  

Komplex: babysealclubber: Which does not answer the question about how it's not a travel. I can watch videos of Greg Paulus flopping all day, that doesn't make it legal. They added in the rule to the NBA rule book in the past decade, which explains why it's not a travel. They specifically added that a player couldn't catch his own pass unless it hit the backboard, rim, or another player. All I have ever known is that the backboard/rim clause applied to actual shot attempts. That''s all I wanted.

Here's the thing, how can you tell the difference between a bad shot that misses the rim but hits the backboard and a pass off the backboard?


In all honesty, you can't in some situations. And I've admitted as such:

babysealclubber: paswa17: I stand by the position that it should be travelling.

Yeah, I kind of do too. Even though I see the problem of differentiating between an actual shot attempt and a purposeful pass.

 
2013-04-10 02:20:34 PM  

babysealclubber: Except that's not what I did. I asked someone to explain how that's not a travel.


Semantically, you didn't. However, by writing multiple sentences and posts about how you think it should be a travel, it's pretty clear what you were doing.
 
2013-04-10 02:38:18 PM  

babysealclubber: MugzyBrown: babysealclubber: EyeballKid: babysealclubber: That was not a shot attempt, how is that not a travel?

1. It's the NBA.
2. It's Lebron.

I'm being completely serious. Can anyone explain? If they want to call the pass off the backboard a shot, then it's not traveling. But if they're not, it has to be a pass, and you can't be the first person to touch the ball after you attempt a pass.

It was made legal a few years ago as long as it hit the backboard or rim or other player

Seriously? Wow. I guess you can't let pesky things like rules get in the way of good entertainment.


Post-Jordan, the NBA take its lead from the WWE in regards to rule making. Pretty plays are more important than integrity of the game.
 
2013-04-10 02:44:29 PM  

LemSkroob: Post-Jordan, the NBA take its lead from the WWE in regards to rule making. Pretty plays are more important than integrity of the game.


Post-Jordan? Bryon Russell would like a word with you.
 
2013-04-10 02:55:18 PM  

Komplex: babysealclubber: Which does not answer the question about how it's not a travel. I can watch videos of Greg Paulus flopping all day, that doesn't make it legal. They added in the rule to the NBA rule book in the past decade, which explains why it's not a travel. They specifically added that a player couldn't catch his own pass unless it hit the backboard, rim, or another player. All I have ever known is that the backboard/rim clause applied to actual shot attempts. That''s all I wanted.

Here's the thing, how can you tell the difference between a bad shot that misses the rim but hits the backboard and a pass off the backboard?


You have identified the reason for the additional rule being added.  It is impossible to tell in a consistent and objective way what the player's intent was (pass or shot) ESPECIALLY when the backboard is involved which is pretty darn close to the basket and is frequently used as part of a shot attempt.  So the rule addition takes doubt and judgment out of the equation.  Instead of being how it used to be "was that a shot? Geez I don't know, maybe? He's got a terrible mid-range jumper so maybe it was a shot that missed by 2 feet, and he wasn't looking around for a pass, but then he got it and then he shot it again God this game is hard to call?!??!?" they just decided that it wasn't a significant part of the game in any way except as a confusion, so they cleared it up.  Not traveling because it hit the backboard.  Done.
 
2013-04-10 02:56:06 PM  

LemSkroob: Post-Jordan, the NBA take its lead from the WWE in regards to rule making. Pretty plays are more important than integrity of the game.


LOL this is like saying that Lance Armstrong never doped, he just defeated a field of dopers. Yeah, poor ol' Mike, back when he was playing, nothing benefited him.
 
2013-04-10 02:59:42 PM  

cefm: He's got a terrible mid-range jumper so maybe it was a shot that missed by 2 feet, and he wasn't looking around for a pass, but then he got it and then he shot it again God this game is hard to call?!??!?" they just decided that it wasn't a significant part of the game in any way except as a confusion, so they cleared it up.  Not traveling because it hit the backboard.  Done.


Plus, again, it creates consistency. If the ball touches anything but you (without you controlling it) in a legal playing area, then you can regain control of it and re-establish possession.

It's kinda dumb to say "well, if it touches the rim," especially with some of those close-in shots that might or might not graze rim.

/anyone know if you can pass it and catch it on a bounce? I assume that's probably illegal, but the rules should be amended to make that legal, too
//not that there's any likelihood of someone trying it in a game
 
2013-04-10 03:44:20 PM  

babysealclubber: EyeballKid: babysealclubber: That was not a shot attempt, how is that not a travel?

1. It's the NBA.
2. It's Lebron.

I'm being completely serious. Can anyone explain? If they want to call the pass off the backboard a shot, then it's not traveling. But if they're not, it has to be a pass, and you can't be the first person to touch the ball after you attempt a pass.


you should check out this site.

http://forum.officiating.com/basketball/
 
2013-04-10 03:48:12 PM  

stir22: babysealclubber: EyeballKid: babysealclubber: That was not a shot attempt, how is that not a travel?

1. It's the NBA.
2. It's Lebron.

I'm being completely serious. Can anyone explain? If they want to call the pass off the backboard a shot, then it's not traveling. But if they're not, it has to be a pass, and you can't be the first person to touch the ball after you attempt a pass.

you should check out this site.

http://forum.officiating.com/basketball/


Sweet. Thanks man.
 
2013-04-10 03:50:43 PM  

IAmRight: babysealclubber: Except that's not what I did. I asked someone to explain how that's not a travel.

Semantically, you didn't. However, by writing multiple sentences and posts about how you think it should be a travel, it's pretty clear what you were doing.


It's almost as if I was looking for a clarification of a rule or something.

IAmRight: /anyone know if you can pass it and catch it on a bounce? I assume that's probably illegal, but the rules should be amended to make that legal, too


No, you can't. That's why my whole line of questioning began.
 
2013-04-10 04:09:12 PM  

babysealclubber: No, you can't. That's why my whole line of questioning began.


You know what? Fair enough. Went back and read it without reading into it (and ignoring the things others were adding) and I don't see the malicious intent. Sorry for putting that on you - but it happens a ton in NBA threads, where people come in whining about everything being a travel, so I'm a bit hypersensitive about it. It's one of the many common threadsh*ts people like to do.

/they really should change it so you can pass it to yourself off the ground
//again, it's not like anyone's going to do it (it will get stolen 90% of the time) - it would just provide complete consistency
 
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