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(Boston Herald)   Smug Massachusetts laughs as backwards Mississippi town sues the gubmnt to take away horrifying wind turbines that are destroying their health. Wait, got those two states switched around; sorry   (bostonherald.com) divider line 91
    More: Dumbass, Mississippi, Massachusetts, wind direction, town clerks, Falmouth, American Wind Energy Association, two-thirds majority, silent majority  
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5809 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Apr 2013 at 11:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-10 12:36:55 PM
"Cool said he doesn't think there's science to substantiate negative effects from turbines."

The science would be checking air pressures in the wake of the turbines and sound tests from all directions. Use the science to generate a report to substantiate negative effects from turbines. Viola!
 
2013-04-10 12:38:57 PM
At the heart of this is Cape Wind who has consistently farked things up mercilessly.

Mass Maratime loves their turbines; provides most of their energy and it did a ton to promote windpower on the water.

Cape Wind basically came out and said that they wanted to put them right out in the water on Nantucket Sound (you know, the South-facing beaches where tourists go) and despite subsidizing the construction could never come up with a number for how much the residents would save on electricity.

There are wind farms around Wachusett that do great....

Cape Wind would do alot better if they didn't try and put them in the middle of one of the biggest tourism attractions for the area (in a lagging economy no less) and perhaps tell the residents that they would get something out of it other than the joy of knowing their tax dollars went to Cape Wind.
 
2013-04-10 12:39:16 PM

xria: MrSteve007: The thing is that the indoor air pressure already fluctuates greatly, even without wind turbines, in windy areas. Check out the water level in the toilet bowl in your house during the next wind storm. It'll move up and down almost constantly - that's from your house pressurizing and depressurizing. If people were that sensitive to minute air pressure changes from turbines, then those same people should blackout from the much larger & constant air pressure changes when a wind storm buffets their house./am actually qualified to talk about this aspect of air pressure & buildings//American air barrier association qualified testing specialist

Yeah, changes like that wouldn't make sense having an influence. The only thing I could see would be the regularity - something like how some people get headaches from 50 or 60 Hz monitors, or a similar resonance type effect. It seems far more likely it is psychological though.



The downwind thing would make the turbines louder, maybe the hate is building in their bodies until they want to drill holes in people's heads to let the demons out?
 
2013-04-10 12:41:53 PM
Hopefully some benevolent energy provider will be able to step in and fill the gap left in the wake of these death machines. Only then can the healing begin.
 
2013-04-10 12:43:11 PM

MrSteve007: The thing is that the indoor air pressure already fluctuates greatly, even without wind turbines, in windy areas. Check out the water level in the toilet bowl in your house during the next wind storm. It'll move up and down almost constantly - that's from your house pressurizing and depressurizing. If people were that sensitive to minute air pressure changes from turbines, then those same people should blackout from the much larger & constant air pressure changes when a wind storm buffets their house.


Obviously, then, these people need a new toilet and then their problems will end. Now they just have to be convinced of that.
 
2013-04-10 12:43:48 PM

BunkoSquad: It's interesting that you link to a Herald story, when the Herald is the worst paper in town (except the Metro, but I consider that more like "Highlights for Children" for grownups on the T than a real paper).


The Metro is at least free.
 
2013-04-10 12:49:35 PM

enry: BunkoSquad: It's interesting that you link to a Herald story, when the Herald is the worst paper in town (except the Metro, but I consider that more like "Highlights for Children" for grownups on the T than a real paper).

The Metro is at least free.


It has to be.  You think you want the Mongoloids that read it taking off their socks and shoes to try and count out the change for it at the newsstand?
 
2013-04-10 12:55:56 PM
Wind power is truly history's greatest monster
 
2013-04-10 01:01:44 PM
Maybe the wind illness people can take Essence of Wind in a 1 part per 5 trillion dilution of water to cure their headaches?

/fake medicine can cure fake diseases
 
2013-04-10 01:02:36 PM

asmodeus224: Maybe the wind illness people can take Essence of Wind in a 1 part per 5 trillion dilution of water to cure their headaches?

/fake medicine can cure fake diseases


Also, I am going to sell this...$50 per bottle!

/email me
 
2013-04-10 01:10:40 PM

Kibbler: Wind power is truly history's greatest monster


You joke with that, but seriously, as Skarekrough said upthread, ever since the first hints of the original plan to crud up Nantucket Sound with turbines (which was a spectacularly bad idea) wind power has been disparaged to Cape residents as the tool of Satan himself. There was so much bad juju created by the anti-Nantucket WP campaign that it's not wonder residents are having a hard time accepting it in any form. It was an ugly fight.
 
2013-04-10 01:17:29 PM

whidbey: HURRR subby's trying to make it sound like people who support wind energy are all NIMBY dipshiats. HURR WHERE'S MY CHEAP GAS? LIBS!!


you poor oppressed little thing
 
2013-04-10 01:24:17 PM
It's amazing the number of people willing for their town to spend the extra $14 million (loss of $26million over time) to remove the essentially free source of energy they're getting.   If they had some scientific evidence to backup why they're not feeling well, they might have a case (and even a solution!) but it seems just whiny people and the placebo effect.

Oh and the term for residents of Massachusetts is a "Bay Stater"
 
2013-04-10 01:36:47 PM
The way I see it is that there was no threat to the New England coast until they put up those stupid windmills and changed the wind patterns (a theory just as plausible as climate change, Don't you think?). Did any of these awesome scientists bother to examine what thousands of windmills all over the world do to existing wind patterns? I didn't think so. This is the argument I have personally used against my "global warming" friends. Instead of helping fight global warming they made it worse than if they just left it alone. They really don't know what to say. I am a little surprised that I have not heard anyone else make this argument but feel free to use it if need be. I am not a scientist but this seems to make sense. - A Freeper

// Hat tip to "Tales from the Derp Side"
 
2013-04-10 01:45:21 PM

netcentric: [imageshack.us image 731x718]

Just turn off the windmills....?

(But I guess the town still has to make payments on them ?   If it costs 14 mill to take 2 down, they are pretty pricey)


/dunno

14 million? I can do it for 5 million for each windmill, just don't ask questions.
/do I get to sell the scrap metal
 
2013-04-10 01:52:38 PM

Billy Bathsalt: A coal plant on the same site should take care of all their health concerns.


But... CLEAN COAL!
 
2013-04-10 02:07:20 PM

whidbey: HURRR subby's trying to make it sound like people who support wind energy are all NIMBY dipshiats. HURR WHERE'S MY CHEAP GAS? LIBS!!


Isolated incident! Overzealous staffer!

These people live in a blue state, so all blue state residents are like this. If this happened in a red state, you know you would agree with me.
 
2013-04-10 02:19:04 PM
In this thread, Massholes get smug and defensive about being called smug and defensive.
 
2013-04-10 02:25:18 PM
Is it Falmouth?

Yep, it's Falmouth
 
2013-04-10 02:27:48 PM

omgbears: Now I want to go into business selling magic rocks that absorb the radiation from wind turbines and prevent this sickness...

//Also Wonkblog covered this a while ago...  http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/10/23/are-wind-t u rbines-making-people-sick-or-is-it-all-just-psychological/


From the comments... more nutter theories:

It sounds like Simon Chapman just MIGHT need to talk to an industrial engineer first. As I hold two graduate degrees in Industrial Engineering and Biomechanical Engineering, maybe you'd like to understand what they are NOT looking at that would instantly validate that windmills ARE causing health-related issues. The science is called 'ERGONOMICS', and not only follows form, fit and function of human biomechanics to tools and day-to-day instruments, but also has a lot to do with related workplace injuries, such as carpal-tunnel syndrome and cold-injuries. In the specific case of WINDMILLS, the biomechanical injury occurring is known as 'repetitive stress compounded by vibration injury', in effect, 'jackhammer syndrome'. The same injury that causes chronic nerve damage to those who use vibrational equipment in their day-to-day lives, such as jackhammer operators, are occurring to residents who live close to the wind turbines, due to an effect inherent in the turbine heads known as 'stutter' or 'magnetic lockup' that happens when the armature magnetic pole coincides with the stator magnetic pole during rotation. At 60-hertz, this head is 'fluttering' or 'stator-locking' 60-times a second. To a human, you can't hear them, but your body can sense them, and can be damaged by it, just as if you were holding onto it. It is vibration damage to the human body, and is a real physiological event. So much for safe 'wind power', and is why so many communities are now trying to get them removed from their towns.
 
2013-04-10 02:29:43 PM

forever_blowing_bubbles: The way I see it is that there was no threat to the New England coast until they put up those stupid windmills and changed the wind patterns (a theory just as plausible as climate change, Don't you think?). Did any of these awesome scientists bother to examine what thousands of windmills all over the world do to existing wind patterns? I didn't think so. This is the argument I have personally used against my "global warming" friends. Instead of helping fight global warming they made it worse than if they just left it alone. They really don't know what to say. I am a little surprised that I have not heard anyone else make this argument but feel free to use it if need be. I am not a scientist but this seems to make sense. - A Freeper

// Hat tip to "Tales from the Derp Side"


I'm not entirely sure if you're serious. But I'll entertain the thought:

First off, the atmosphere is huge, both in terms of volume, energy and (in human scale) height. Putting up thousands of 75-100 meters tall turbines does almost nothing to an atmosphere that is about 100 km in height and spans the entire surface of the planet.

Second, in terms of 'reducing wind' you have to recognize that wind isn't the action, it's the reaction. It's the area of high pressure atmosphere trying to equalize an area of low pressure (caused largely from the heating of the planet's surface by the sun and rising air). No matter what you put in the way, say even an obstacle thousands of feet high and the size of most countries, like the Himalayan Mountains, the atmosphere will attempt to equalize the pressure imbalance by going around and over the obstacle. That's a lot of words to say this: the wind will blow, regardless of what we put in the way. Turbines largely work with the wind than divert it.

Third, in terms of overall wind patterns, we've massively altered natural surface wind patterns by deforesting much of the planet. Before the past few centuries, much of the East Coast and Europe was completely blanketed by dense forest. When it comes to surface wind speeds, there isn't much more efficient at slowing down surface currents than forests. Do you consider the wind patterns of current deforested state "natural" or should they be similar to what we experienced 300 years ago? Not that anyone is looking for this sort of density (or that it would even be feasible) but if we were to place every acre with a turbine, we would likely bring surface wind currents closer to their pre-deforestation state.

I'm sure there's plenty of other points to be made against your hypothesis, but it does make for an interesting argument.
 
2013-04-10 02:38:21 PM

MrSteve007: forever_blowing_bubbles: The way I see it is that there was no threat to the New England coast until they put up those stupid windmills and changed the wind patterns (a theory just as plausible as climate change, Don't you think?). Did any of these awesome scientists bother to examine what thousands of windmills all over the world do to existing wind patterns? I didn't think so. This is the argument I have personally used against my "global warming" friends. Instead of helping fight global warming they made it worse than if they just left it alone. They really don't know what to say. I am a little surprised that I have not heard anyone else make this argument but feel free to use it if need be. I am not a scientist but this seems to make sense. - A Freeper

// Hat tip to "Tales from the Derp Side"

I'm not entirely sure if you're serious. But I'll entertain the thought:

First off, the atmosphere is huge, both in terms of volume, energy and (in human scale) height. Putting up thousands of 75-100 meters tall turbines does almost nothing to an atmosphere that is about 100 km in height and spans the entire surface of the planet.

Second, in terms of 'reducing wind' you have to recognize that wind isn't the action, it's the reaction. It's the area of high pressure atmosphere trying to equalize an area of low pressure (caused largely from the heating of the planet's surface by the sun and rising air). No matter what you put in the way, say even an obstacle thousands of feet high and the size of most countries, like the Himalayan Mountains, the atmosphere will attempt to equalize the pressure imbalance by going around and over the obstacle. That's a lot of words to say this: the wind will blow, regardless of what we put in the way. Turbines largely work with the wind than divert it.

Third, in terms of overall wind patterns, we've massively altered natural surface wind patterns by deforesting much of the planet. Before the past few centuries, much of the East Coast and Eu ...


Poe's Law ... This was a post over on Free Republic that made me LOL. I found it on a former\current Farker's blog called "Tales from the Derp Side".  I ridiculed it mercilessly but hats off to you for taking the high road :-)
 
xcv
2013-04-10 02:38:31 PM
After extensive internet research I've diagnosed my family as being afflicted with Chronic Lyme Disease, Multiple Chemical Sensitivity Syndrome, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Morgellons, gluten allergies and vaccination-linked-autism, these wind turbines could be the death of us.
 
2013-04-10 02:39:07 PM

xcv: After extensive internet research I've diagnosed my family as being afflicted with Chronic Lyme Disease, Multiple Chemical Sensitivity Syndrome, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Morgellons, gluten allergies and vaccination-linked-autism, these wind turbines could be the death of us.


The Aristocrats!
 
2013-04-10 04:08:26 PM
MrSteve007:

the atmosphere is huge
 
2013-04-10 04:15:50 PM

incawarrior: It's amazing the number of people willing for their town to spend the extra $14 million (loss of $26million over time) to remove the essentially free source of energy they're getting.   If they had some scientific evidence to backup why they're not feeling well, they might have a case (and even a solution!) but it seems just whiny people and the placebo effect.

Oh and the term for residents of Massachusetts is a "Bay Stater" Masshole


FTFY
 
2013-04-10 04:29:51 PM

netcentric: Canton:
"..../No, I have no idea how you'd set up an experiment like this.
//Ideally, people wouldn't know whether or not there were turbines."

I know how to test wind buffet-ing....

Put blind folded people in the back of a Steel Blue 2002 Jeep Liberty.
Drive at 55 mph
Crack the rear windows about 3"
Measure the amount of time it takes for them to puke....or to start asking to put the dam windows back up


/I don't care anything about wind power
//no need to debate that part
///that Jeep thing drives me nuts


My wife's Compass does the same damn thing.
 
2013-04-10 04:39:39 PM

WrongTrousers: That's not what the article says, but then subby already knew that.

 
2013-04-10 04:57:56 PM

netcentric: [imageshack.us image 731x718]

Just turn off the windmills....?

(But I guess the town still has to make payments on them ?   If it costs 14 mill to take 2 down, they are pretty pricey)


/dunno


Those are some mighty dirty windmills ya got there, Lou.
 
2013-04-10 06:31:28 PM

thorthor: Falmouth resident Mark Cool, who lives near the turbine site, said persistent headaches started as soon as it began running. He described some so penetrating he felt he needed "to drill a hole in my head to get some sort of relief."

DO IT! DO IT!



I believe I've seen this movie before, I think it was called pi, the greek letter not the word
 
2013-04-10 07:01:41 PM

meat0918: Someone here on Fark noticed that there is a cure for turbine sickness.

Money.

Seems the owners of the land the turbines are on don't get sick.


This, none of the farmers out here that actually own and live on the land that have well over 800 wind turbines on it have ever complained to us about this. In fact, they really like them because they give all the cows and sheep shade in the summer(gets to be triple digits every day for about 4 months straight...).

/I climb several 280ft tall wind turbines a day
//still don't have this "disease"
 
2013-04-10 07:28:51 PM
Noisy, polluting turbine powered aeroplanes flying overhead and turbine enhanced trucks barreling along the highways are still O K ?
 
2013-04-10 08:07:24 PM
Worst headline/link in the history of Fark.

World-class fail
 
2013-04-11 02:54:15 AM

Kibbler: Wind power is truly history's greatest monster


It's not viable you know.

*tries really hard to keep a straight face*
*harder*

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA
 
2013-04-11 08:39:06 AM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Canton: Billy Bathsalt: A coal plant on the same site should take care of all their health concerns.

For sure. Everybody knows they're clean and quiet and smell of rosewater and daisies!

For extra health points, we should start fracking right under their water table. Ignore the earthquakes. We've been having them around Dallas for centuries. Really. They're totally natural.


Ironically, North Falmouth already HAS water table contamination.

Not from fracking, but from decades of dumping at Otis (variously an airfield, Nat. Guard base, etc, etc)
 
2013-04-11 08:41:13 AM

Snarfangel: Jackson Herring: Really though on a tab famous for it's awful headlines, congrats submitter on coming up with a particularly shiatty one

That's just what I would expect a Massachusinian Massachusite Massachusetter guy from Massachusetts to say.


Bay Stater, or Masshole, work just fine :)
 
2013-04-11 08:46:00 AM

incawarrior: It's amazing the number of people willing for their town to spend the extra $14 million (loss of $26million over time) to remove the essentially free source of energy they're getting.   If they had some scientific evidence to backup why they're not feeling well, they might have a case (and even a solution!) but it seems just whiny people and the placebo effect.


I'm pro-wind, but there IS merit to at least some of these complaints.  In Falmouth, it ain't the turbines, it's vortex-effect from blades too big for the site, causing a couple of houses to beat like drums.  I'd be pissed if it was my house too.  What makes everyone doubters is, you can't feel the effect standing NEXT to the house, because you don't have 200 square feet of surface area.  (insert fat joke here)

The town will probably end up buying at least a couple of properties from the owners; it'll be cheaper than dismantling the windmills.
 
2013-04-11 08:47:07 AM

Skarekrough: enry: BunkoSquad: It's interesting that you link to a Herald story, when the Herald is the worst paper in town (except the Metro, but I consider that more like "Highlights for Children" for grownups on the T than a real paper).

The Metro is at least free.

It has to be.  You think you want the Mongoloids that read it taking off their socks and shoes to try and count out the change for it at the newsstand?


I only pick it up for the Sudoku, I swear!
 
2013-04-11 08:52:51 AM

lousyskater: meat0918: Someone here on Fark noticed that there is a cure for turbine sickness.

Money.

Seems the owners of the land the turbines are on don't get sick.

This, none of the farmers out here that actually own and live on the land that have well over 800 wind turbines on it have ever complained to us about this. In fact, they really like them because they give all the cows and sheep shade in the summer(gets to be triple digits every day for about 4 months straight...).

/I climb several 280ft tall wind turbines a day
//still don't have this "disease"


Vortex effect from a improperly-sized blades is basically a torus, dependent on wind velocity and direction, so, climbing the rig, you won't notice it...you'll be inside the impact zone.  And, if your farmhouse is far enough away, you won't notice it either...you'll be outside the impacted area.

Driving or walking through the zone, you probably won't notice it either.
 
2013-04-12 08:09:10 AM

PunGent: incawarrior: It's amazing the number of people willing for their town to spend the extra $14 million (loss of $26million over time) to remove the essentially free source of energy they're getting.   If they had some scientific evidence to backup why they're not feeling well, they might have a case (and even a solution!) but it seems just whiny people and the placebo effect.

I'm pro-wind, but there IS merit to at least some of these complaints.  In Falmouth, it ain't the turbines, it's vortex-effect from blades too big for the site, causing a couple of houses to beat like drums.  I'd be pissed if it was my house too.  What makes everyone doubters is, you can't feel the effect standing NEXT to the house, because you don't have 200 square feet of surface area.  (insert fat joke here)

The town will probably end up buying at least a couple of properties from the owners; it'll be cheaper than dismantling the windmills.


As has been pointed out above, the change in pressure associated with these is small compared to the natural fluctuation created by wind buffeting a house.  Do you have any sort of scientific backup to your spurious claims?
 
2013-04-12 02:02:13 PM

SmellsLikePoo: PunGent: incawarrior: It's amazing the number of people willing for their town to spend the extra $14 million (loss of $26million over time) to remove the essentially free source of energy they're getting.   If they had some scientific evidence to backup why they're not feeling well, they might have a case (and even a solution!) but it seems just whiny people and the placebo effect.

I'm pro-wind, but there IS merit to at least some of these complaints.  In Falmouth, it ain't the turbines, it's vortex-effect from blades too big for the site, causing a couple of houses to beat like drums.  I'd be pissed if it was my house too.  What makes everyone doubters is, you can't feel the effect standing NEXT to the house, because you don't have 200 square feet of surface area.  (insert fat joke here)

The town will probably end up buying at least a couple of properties from the owners; it'll be cheaper than dismantling the windmills.

As has been pointed out above, the change in pressure associated with these is small compared to the natural fluctuation created by wind buffeting a house.  Do you have any sort of scientific backup to your spurious claims?


Scientific?

No.  And I'm sure SOME of the claims asserted ARE frivolous.

However, a trusted family friend (I grew up in Falmouth) living in one of the affected homes is good enough for me...he's ALSO pro-wind, he just doesn't want to live in a farking drum machine when the wind is blowing his direction.  He's not claiming any weird neurological effects, he just can't sleep in certain wind conditions.

I don't pretend to understand the physics...must be an unlucky resonance type thing.  Houses closer, and houses further away, are completely unaffected.

You can't tell me this has no effect at all under every weather condition:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw =1 360&bih=767&q=wind+turbine+vortice&oq=wind+turbine+vortice&gs_l=img.3. ..1412.6785.0.7176.24.13.2.9.10.0.112.1091.10j3.13.0...0.0...1ac.1.9.i mg.Sa9C0P7uy3Q#hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=wind+turbine+vortex&oq =wind+turbine+vortex&gs_l=img.3..0i24l2.18135.19077.0.19628.5.3.0.2.2. 0.68.192.3.3.0...0.0...1c.1.9.img.kSAh7bVwnGk&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv .45175338,d.dmQ&fp=28619a92dc012355&biw=1360&bih=767&imgrc=7DVSDTILVu_ b3M%3A%3BcyIyrWIg7sDMbM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fict-aeolus.eu%252Fimages% 252Fhorns_rev.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwattsupwiththat.com%252F2011%25 2F04%252F28%252Fthe-wind-turbine-albedo-effect%252F%3B700%3B525
 
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