If we have a war, I expect every conservative I know to get their asses down to the recruiting office immediately.

nekom: make me some tea:
It's best that we do nothing unless there's a direct threat to SK or any US assets. Japan can hold its own. If they launch another test missile into the ocean, so be it. We need to just hold the line and nothing more. I'm pretty sure that's all that will happen, though. This is a huge bluff; they want concessions, but they've painted themselves into a corner, so f*ck them.

I would argue that there already exists a direct threat to worst Korea and Japan. Not to the USA just yet, but certainly to the south. I would shoot down any missile they launched, no matter the circumstances. I may be in the minority opinion, but we have a tyrannical dictatorship with nuclear weapons. This isn't good. This isn't good at all. How long will we continue to allow this to exist? It's only going to get worse if he starts developing more nukes and the means to deliver them. No, in my mind, this HAS to stop, and now is the time.

You seem to be under the impression that he wants war.  It's clear from his actions he doesn't.  From every appearance and analysis, it's all a show to keep control of a failing regime.  This isn't a religiously driven fanatic bent on global Armageddon with some insane sense of "right".  It's a small man trying to keep control of a situation he's lost.  It would be a mistake for us to evaluate this decision from our recent perspective of religiously driven terrorism.

In fact, this is a very conventional problem that the world has prepared for and can deal with fairly easily.  This is a governmental, conventional war threat.  This is the USSR on a very small scale, without the power to back it up.  We'd like it to diffuse quietly, and we have a good shot at it.  But even if it goes ugly, it'll be over in hours, and with a minimal loss of friendly forces.  But the chances of it coming to that are pretty remote.  The primary issue at hand is how to guide this country to not be led by assholes once this situation resolves itself.  That's the real challenge.  The current regime is unimportant.

somedude210: Weaver95: If we have a war, I expect every conservative I know to get their asses down to the recruiting office immediately.

HA

and for those wondering why April 10th is so gosh-darned important in all this, today is the day NK was warning as the date they couldn't guarantee the safety of foreign nationals in their country. They're planning something for today, just a matter of whether it's bluster, failure or war.

They're going to test-fire a new missile, from the looks of it. Hopefully someone shoots the f*cking thing down, for the lulz.

Raharu: Hmmmm, it's been a while since we've had a war where we are clearly the good guys.

This would not be a war, per se'. It would be a unified beatdown on three front (China, US, and South Korea), with SK taking some heavy damage in the north of the country before Best Korea is literally pummeled into tiny pieces. If Best Korea were to actually use a nuclear device, there wouldn't be enough left of their country to bother rebuilding, just left China and South Korea share the space for the world's largest manufacturing park.

make me some tea:
It's best that we do nothing unless there's a direct threat to SK or any US assets. Japan can hold its own. If they launch another test missile into the ocean, so be it. We need to just hold the line and nothing more. I'm pretty sure that's all that will happen, though. This is a huge bluff; they want concessions, but they've painted themselves into a corner, so f*ck them.

I would argue that there already exists a direct threat to worst Korea and Japan. Not to the USA just yet, but certainly to the south. I would shoot down any missile they launched, no matter the circumstances. I may be in the minority opinion, but we have a tyrannical dictatorship with nuclear weapons. This isn't good. This isn't good at all. How long will we continue to allow this to exist? It's only going to get worse if he starts developing more nukes and the means to deliver them. No, in my mind, this HAS to stop, and now is the time.

somedude210:
not if we're negotiating with them through China to get them to stop. It's when they launch that we know the talks have broken down. THEN we go to war

Get them to stop what? Their nuclear program? Even if they were willing to do that, they aren't going to stop oppressing their people. They aren't going to stop their constant warmongering, even if it is all talk for domestic consumption. They've sank ships. They have committed acts of war. What's going to change, barring any internal revolution, without collapsing the regime? Also, I don't like his stupid face!

somedude210: nekom: If I were POTUS, I would have given SERIOUS thought to taking it out on the ground as soon as they began fueling. No missile for you, fatty ding dongs, NOT YOURS.

That would start a war and NK could play the victim to it. They're unstable as it is, no need to give them reason to take a knife to their wife (SK)

You don't think declaring your intent to use nuclear weapons and then fueling a rocket that ostensibly may be capable of delivering them is grounds for an attack? We went into Iraq because our POTUS at the time "Didn't like his stupid face" or whatever. If a war with the Norks is truly inevitable, why prolong it any longer? Do we really want to stand by and watch another 60 years of a regime that would be absolutely comical if not for the tremendous human suffering?

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's a good thing I'm not the POTUS.

make me some tea:
They're going to test-fire a new missile, from the looks of it. Hopefully someone shoots the f*cking thing down, for the lulz.

Japan has said in no uncertain terms that they WILL. The U.S. doesn't seem to have said anything more than "We're pretty sure we can."

Given that they have indicated that they intend to use nuclear weapons (even though I don't believe that they even can), any missile launch should be viewed as hostile, and I say any nation has the right to destroy it. If I were POTUS, I would have given SERIOUS thought to taking it out on the ground as soon as they began fueling. No missile for you, fatty ding dongs, NOT YOURS.

MmmmBacon: Raharu: Hmmmm, it's been a while since we've had a war where we are clearly the good guys.

This would not be a war, per se'. It would be a unified beatdown on three front (China, US, and South Korea), with SK taking some heavy damage in the north of the country before Best Korea is literally pummeled into tiny pieces. If Best Korea were to actually use a nuclear device, there wouldn't be enough left of their country to bother rebuilding, just left China and South Korea share the space for the world's largest manufacturing park.

basically, International Suicide by Cop

kimwim: I think Best Korea would only be targeting US embassies, wouldn't they? I'm not so certain South Korea will be taking much heat.

Not a chance. If they're going out, they're gonna take as many Worst Koreans they can before they get their ass handed to them

mbillips: nekom: TheShavingofOccam123: The Chi-coms will defend the Korean peninsula. And thanks to America's adoption of pre-emptive war, all-out war, and shock-and-awe war, we are in deep doo-doo.

Don't forget that they voted IN FAVOR of the latest sanctions. They didn't even abstain, they voted for them.

And George Bush isn't president any more. The current administration is pretty much the opposite of being down with preemptive war.

And, to add to all of that, when was the last time you saw Japan and China aligned on anything military related?

Khellendros: nekom: make me some tea:
It's best that we do nothing unless there's a direct threat to SK or any US assets. Japan can hold its own. If they launch another test missile into the ocean, so be it. We need to just hold the line and nothing more. I'm pretty sure that's all that will happen, though. This is a huge bluff; they want concessions, but they've painted themselves into a corner, so f*ck them.

I would argue that there already exists a direct threat to worst Korea and Japan. Not to the USA just yet, but certainly to the south. I would shoot down any missile they launched, no matter the circumstances. I may be in the minority opinion, but we have a tyrannical dictatorship with nuclear weapons. This isn't good. This isn't good at all. How long will we continue to allow this to exist? It's only going to get worse if he starts developing more nukes and the means to deliver them. No, in my mind, this HAS to stop, and now is the time.

You seem to be under the impression that he wants war.  It's clear from his actions he doesn't.  From every appearance and analysis, it's all a show to keep control of a failing regime.  This isn't a religiously driven fanatic bent on global Armageddon with some insane sense of "right".  It's a small man trying to keep control of a situation he's lost.  It would be a mistake for us to evaluate this decision from our recent perspective of religiously driven terrorism.

In fact, this is a very conventional problem that the world has prepared for and can deal with fairly easily.  This is a governmental, conventional war threat.  This is the USSR on a very small scale, without the power to back it up.  We'd like it to diffuse quietly, and we have a good shot at it.  But even if it goes ugly, it'll be over in hours, and with a minimal loss of friendly forces.  But the chances of it coming to that are pretty remote.  The primary issue at hand is how to guide this country to not be led by assholes once this situation resolves itself.  That's t ...

I just have to wonder, since Un has gotten the Nork populace so riled up now, what's the exit strategy on this? That pent-up energy will have to be channeled somehow.

Sensual Tyrannosaurus: Infernalist: Sensual Tyrannosaurus: Jake Havechek: Unless directly provoked of course, then it's glass parking lot time.

Yeah, Japan will be psyched about massive amounts of radioactive fallout being carried by the wind to their country.

With our arsenal, I doubt the US would need to use nuclear weapons to scour most of North Korea. Conventional should do fine.

A nuclear response to a nuclear attack is a political necessity.

I don't know about that. I don't think China will much appreciate us dropping nukes in their backyard, and we don't want to create tensions with them. If we can crush a militaristic nation like NK in front of the world without using nuclear weapons, it would create hesitation for any other would-be nuclear powers.

The political party that allowed Americans die, or our allies to die to a nuclear attack without a nuclear response would lose power for a generation or more.

Do not underestimate the American need for overwhelmingly destructive revenge.

We'll blow up the ocean!

namegoeshere: make me some tea: I disagree, containment is the best policy. The emperor has no clothes.

Unless directly provoked of course, then it's glass  dirt parking lot time.

FTFY.

Yes I know it was hyperbole. I'm saying, we have no need to get all nukey here, when a sling shot and some big rocks will do. (reverse hyperbole? Is that a thing?)

If they attack with a nuke, NK will cease to exist as a nation.

If they don't, then they're gonna skate.

make me some tea:
I disagree, containment is the best policy. The emperor has no clothes.

Unless directly provoked of course, then it's glass parking lot time.

Well, then we disagree. I also don't think it will ever be "glass parking lot" time, I get that that was just some hyperbole but I don't want to destroy the entire country no matter what happens. Just destroy any missiles or nuclear plants. If they attack, well then that's that. But I don't think they would. If they were REALLY crazy enough to think they'd win a war, they would have started one by now. We have the capacity to destroy his nuclear program with precision strikes, and I say it's high time we did just that. Only that. Sorry tubby, you can't have a nuclear bomb. Not yours.

somedude210: supposedly, the aunt (not the uncle) is really the power behind the throne. I'm curious how that works

Oooohhh, that's interesting.  Wasn't aware of this.  Wonder if she is trying to steal the throne from her nephew for her own children.  Wait, does she have children?  I know so little about the Norks.

somedude210: dittybopper: OK, I'm just putting this out there:  I predict that the DPRK is either going to cancel their missile test, or go through with it.

What happens if you're wrong?

I know a certain cat that would be very, very nervous.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: make me some tea: They're going to test-fire a new missile, from the looks of it. Hopefully someone shoots the f*cking thing down, for the lulz.

The more it looks like a domestic power struggle, the more I think that they'll fire the missile, the US will do nothing, Best Korea will declare "victory against the imperialist aggressors" and stand down.  Un wins a massive popularity surge at home sealing his legitimacy as leader and everyone in BK goes back to scratching at the dirt.

It's best that we do nothing unless there's a direct threat to SK or any US assets. Japan can hold its own. If they launch another test missile into the ocean, so be it. We need to just hold the line and nothing more. I'm pretty sure that's all that will happen, though. This is a huge bluff; they want concessions, but they've painted themselves into a corner, so f*ck them.

make me some tea: They're going to test-fire a new missile, from the looks of it. Hopefully someone shoots the f*cking thing down, for the lulz.

The more it looks like a domestic power struggle, the more I think that they'll fire the missile, the US will do nothing, Best Korea will declare "victory against the imperialist aggressors" and stand down.  Un wins a massive popularity surge at home sealing his legitimacy as leader and everyone in BK goes back to scratching at the dirt.

nekom: Get them to stop what? Their nuclear program? Even if they were willing to do that, they aren't going to stop oppressing their people. They aren't going to stop their constant warmongering, even if it is all talk for domestic consumption. They've sank ships. They have committed acts of war. What's going to change, barring any internal revolution, without collapsing the regime? Also, I don't like his stupid face!

All legitimate points, but we're not the world's police. Oppression and suffering is happening in dozens of countries around the world. We can't overthrow all of them. It's when the leaders are so batshiat insane as to threaten "thermonuclear war" and may or may not have nukes on hand (for all we know, they could have gotten some ex-soviet missile tech/nuclear material) that we intervene. That's when proportional responses come in. They knock out a boat, we starve them to their knees. They build a missile capable of possibly hitting our country, we surround them with anti-missile missiles. They threaten to start "thermonuclear war" we get everyone around them, even their masters, to come in and tell them to STFU and GBTW. When they declare war and attack (instead of just saying they're at war) we roll through, level them to nothing and then nuke it from orbit, just to be sure.

THAT is the value of a proportional response

Anyone know what the Vegas odds are for this event?

nekom: If I were POTUS, I would have given SERIOUS thought to taking it out on the ground as soon as they began fueling. No missile for you, fatty ding dongs, NOT YOURS.

That would start a war and NK could play the victim to it. They're unstable as it is, no need to give them reason to take a knife to their wife (SK)

make me some tea: somedude210: Weaver95: If we have a war, I expect every conservative I know to get their asses down to the recruiting office immediately.

HA

and for those wondering why April 10th is so gosh-darned important in all this, today is the day NK was warning as the date they couldn't guarantee the safety of foreign nationals in their country. They're planning something for today, just a matter of whether it's bluster, failure or war.

They're going to test-fire a new missile, from the looks of it. Hopefully someone shoots the f*cking thing down, for the lulz.

I think it's a matter of whether they test fire it into the ocean or they test fire it and it gets "misdirected" to SK/Japan

...and then ends up hitting China

somedude210: kimwim: I think Best Korea would only be targeting US embassies, wouldn't they? I'm not so certain South Korea will be taking much heat.

Not a chance. If they're going out, they're gonna take as many Worst Koreans they can before they get their ass handed to them

This. While I think Best Korea is full of bluster, and their leaders aren't nearly as stupid and borderline psychopathic as they seem, if it does come to war, they will do their best to take the South with them. They will also do everything they can to strike a blow against the US, be it missile strikes on Guam, Japan, or perhaps eventually the US mainland itself.

But that would all be responded to by overwhelming force on multiple sides. China won't stand for it. The US won't stand for it. Obviously the South Koreans won't stand for it. And in the end, there would be nothing left of Best Korea in any practical sense, other than a lot of burning wreckage and millions of starving refugees.

Weaver95: If we have a war, I expect every conservative I know to get their asses down to the recruiting office immediately.

HA

and for those wondering why April 10th is so gosh-darned important in all this, today is the day NK was warning as the date they couldn't guarantee the safety of foreign nationals in their country. They're planning something for today, just a matter of whether it's bluster, failure or war.

MmmmBacon: This would not be a war, per se'. It would be a unified beatdown on three fronts (China, US, and South Korea), with SK taking some heavy damage in the north of the country before Best Korea is literally pummeled into tiny pieces. If Best Korea were to actually use a nuclear device, there wouldn't be enough left of their country to bother rebuilding, just let China and South Korea share the space for the world's largest manufacturing park.

FTFM

Bontesla: I think someone last night already made one of these threads because Nork is like 13 hours ahead of the Eastern-US time zone.

I'm not sure if it was redlit.

yes, that was me then. It's me this time too.

Forgive me, admins, if I think this is actually news.

/well, it is. Japan/US/SK are bracing themselves
//China probably is too