miss diminutive: kimwim: It's 8.55pm in Seoul, Worst Korea, nothing's happened yet.

How are their reserves of Vespene Gas?

Plentiful. But they don't have enough....Psi

/sunglasses

Khellendros: nekom: make me some tea:
It's best that we do nothing unless there's a direct threat to SK or any US assets. Japan can hold its own. If they launch another test missile into the ocean, so be it. We need to just hold the line and nothing more. I'm pretty sure that's all that will happen, though. This is a huge bluff; they want concessions, but they've painted themselves into a corner, so f*ck them.

I would argue that there already exists a direct threat to worst Korea and Japan. Not to the USA just yet, but certainly to the south. I would shoot down any missile they launched, no matter the circumstances. I may be in the minority opinion, but we have a tyrannical dictatorship with nuclear weapons. This isn't good. This isn't good at all. How long will we continue to allow this to exist? It's only going to get worse if he starts developing more nukes and the means to deliver them. No, in my mind, this HAS to stop, and now is the time.

You seem to be under the impression that he wants war.  It's clear from his actions he doesn't.  From every appearance and analysis, it's all a show to keep control of a failing regime.  This isn't a religiously driven fanatic bent on global Armageddon with some insane sense of "right".  It's a small man trying to keep control of a situation he's lost.  It would be a mistake for us to evaluate this decision from our recent perspective of religiously driven terrorism.

In fact, this is a very conventional problem that the world has prepared for and can deal with fairly easily.  This is a governmental, conventional war threat.  This is the USSR on a very small scale, without the power to back it up.  We'd like it to diffuse quietly, and we have a good shot at it.  But even if it goes ugly, it'll be over in hours, and with a minimal loss of friendly forces.  But the chances of it coming to that are pretty remote.  The primary issue at hand is how to guide this country to not be led by assholes once this situation resolves itself.  That's t ...

I just have to wonder, since Un has gotten the Nork populace so riled up now, what's the exit strategy on this? That pent-up energy will have to be channeled somehow.

Sensual Tyrannosaurus: Infernalist: Sensual Tyrannosaurus: Infernalist: Sensual Tyrannosaurus: Jake Havechek: Unless directly provoked of course, then it's glass parking lot time.

Yeah, Japan will be psyched about massive amounts of radioactive fallout being carried by the wind to their country.

With our arsenal, I doubt the US would need to use nuclear weapons to scour most of North Korea. Conventional should do fine.

A nuclear response to a nuclear attack is a political necessity.

I don't know about that. I don't think China will much appreciate us dropping nukes in their backyard, and we don't want to create tensions with them. If we can crush a militaristic nation like NK in front of the world without using nuclear weapons, it would create hesitation for any other would-be nuclear powers.

The political party that allowed Americans die, or our allies to die to a nuclear attack without a nuclear response would lose power for a generation or more.

Do not underestimate the American need for overwhelmingly destructive revenge.

Hey I'm as bloodthirsty as any other American, but as a world power we have to be more responsible than the NKs of the world. They did it so we can too is not good enough, and if you can accomplish your goals without resorting to nukes, so much the better.

It's a nice sentiment, but it's politically impossible for us to shrug off a nuke attack.

The attacking nation would have to suffer an equally punishing nuclear strike.

Global politics and national politics would require it.

The Chi-coms will defend the Korean peninsula. And thanks to America's adoption of pre-emptive war, all-out war, and shock-and-awe war, we are in deep doo-doo.

make me some tea: I just have to wonder, since Un has gotten the Nork populace so riled up now, what's the exit strategy on this? That pent-up energy will have to be channeled somehow.

NK hunger games?

TheShavingofOccam123: The Chi-coms will defend the Korean peninsula. And thanks to America's adoption of pre-emptive war, all-out war, and shock-and-awe war, we are in deep doo-doo.

They'd defend NK from Western occupation. That's about it.

They got, like, what, a half hour left to Tuesday?

Are we at war yet?

miss diminutive: make me some tea: I just have to wonder, since Un has gotten the Nork populace so riled up now, what's the exit strategy on this? That pent-up energy will have to be channeled somehow.

NK hunger games?

So....tuesday.

TheShavingofOccam123: The Chi-coms will defend the Korean peninsula. And thanks to America's adoption of pre-emptive war, all-out war, and shock-and-awe war, we are in deep doo-doo.

Don't forget that they voted IN FAVOR of the latest sanctions. They didn't even abstain, they voted for them.

nekom: TheShavingofOccam123: The Chi-coms will defend the Korean peninsula. And thanks to America's adoption of pre-emptive war, all-out war, and shock-and-awe war, we are in deep doo-doo.

Don't forget that they voted IN FAVOR of the latest sanctions. They didn't even abstain, they voted for them.

I would feel safer if we hadn't spent 8 years in the first decade of this century, proclaiming to the world we will prevent super-powers rising, announcing that we believe in pre-emptive war and invading Iraq.

Anyone who needs a reason for first-strike or escalation has plenty of excuses thanks to our recent record. And when it comes to Asians "saving face",  a rational inspection of the odds against them is of little value.

/we use drones, they sell used panties in vending machines. we both have our quirks

/Do we have several million drones available for use over North Korea? This is important.

mbillips: nekom: TheShavingofOccam123: The Chi-coms will defend the Korean peninsula. And thanks to America's adoption of pre-emptive war, all-out war, and shock-and-awe war, we are in deep doo-doo.

Don't forget that they voted IN FAVOR of the latest sanctions. They didn't even abstain, they voted for them.

And George Bush isn't president any more. The current administration is pretty much the opposite of being down with preemptive war.

And, to add to all of that, when was the last time you saw Japan and China aligned on anything military related?

Weaver95: If we have a war, I expect every conservative I know to get their asses down to the recruiting office immediately.

With a hippie under each arm.

rickythepenguin: Kim Jon Un:
I'm a dictata, but y'all knew that
Da Big Boss Un, yeah I hadda do dat
I keep Kim Jong Il's polaroid hanging out my backside
But only on the North side, yeah that's the NKOR side
Ain't no other way to play the nuclear aggression game the way I play
I bomb so much you thought I was DJ Nagasaki ("two!" - "one!" - "yep, three!")
Kay to the I to the M to the Jung to the You Enn Gee
If you step to me, you gots to pay the fee
Cause the people aint' free in my DMZ
Obama don't be frontin', unless you wanna be in deep kimchi
Or maybe send your girl, her name Hill-a-ree, at ease, please.
I can't fake it, just break it, and when I get gone
See I specialize in making all the countres go DEFCON
So bring your friends, all of y'all come inside
We got a world premiere right here, now get live!
So don't change the dizzle, turn it up a little
I got a DMZ full of fine dime missles
The Scud, the Rodong, and the Musadan
I know you got carriers but I gots me the bomb

President Obama
Yo King Jon Un, this is your boy Barack
Bout' ta piss me off, son, now get offa my block
I drive my own cars, int he White House I floss
I got my nubian J-Bidez, muthafarka we the Boss!
Big Barry O, yeah I'm game as hell
On the TV screen and in the magazines, I'ma  rain down hell
If you play me close, you're on a red beam
Oh you got a nuke so you wanna pop back?
US Navy Seventh Fleet, now nubian, stop that!
Cement shoes, now you got 'em on the move
I'll send SEAL Team Six, biatch, they gonna double tap ya smoove
Your family can't find you, and now they miss you
Must I remind you I'm only here to twist you?
Pistol whip you, dip you then flip you
Then dance to this motherfarking music we Stars and Stripes to
Subscribe Kim Jong Un, come and get yo issue
Kimmie come close, let me see show you how I get loose!

Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
I got the finger on the football and I'm pouring Dom Perignon
And I gots the best weaps cuz I gotcha on lockdown PEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ...

This is why you are greened as a favorite of mine.

elchupacabra: mbillips:

That might make sense, if North Korea were a threat to anyone. They want nukes for the same reason Pakistan got nukes. They want to be invasion-proof. They've saw what happens to a numerically superior force using 1970s Soviet technology against a modern army like South Korea's, in '91 and 2003. They get munched. North Korea's military is a joke, and they're perfectly aware of it.

Problem with countries like Pakistan and NK being "invasion-proof" is that they're not exactly going to just wave their nukes as a permanent "defensive" setup.  They're going to think they can get away with more of the things that make others want to invade them in the first place.  That makes them eventually more of a threat, not less, barring some other counterbalance -- like Indian nukes.  Are we cool with more nuclear proliferation in the Far East -- with the added MAD risk that entails -- just so we can claim we avoided a potentially messy war here?  Not to mention the added risk of weapons theft or highjacking.

The real problem with North Korea--if you buy into globalization trumping nationalistic application of "Monroe Doctrine"-type hegemony--is North Korea really isn't tied into the global economy. They have little global economic interests which they would risk if they used nuclear weapons. As long as the leadership feels it's safe (see Saddam and the Baathists) then they'll pretty much do anything they convince themselves is in their interest.

If the leadership stood to lose serious economic power which resulted in a populace in revolt, they would have a serious deterrent against their using nuclear weapons. They don't have serious global economic power and they don't have a populace willing or capable to revolt.

They're crazy and they have nukes. Let the people who made them crazy and gave them nukes, deal with it.

/as people have pointed out Communist China has apparently decided to help deal with their creation. Let's wait and see.

elchupacabra: you're gonna see Japan, SK, and a few other countries start debating the need.

Oh please.