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(Some Guy)   The truths about school shootings that Huffington Post doesn't want you to read   (peterbrownhoffmeister.wordpress.com) divider line 182
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17162 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Apr 2013 at 11:13 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-10 12:23:25 AM  
Your blug sucks.
 
2013-04-10 12:24:01 AM  
Your blog sucks too.
 
2013-04-10 12:25:56 AM  

SilentStrider: Your blug sucks.

 
2013-04-10 12:35:16 AM  
Your blig sacks.
 
2013-04-10 12:46:46 AM  
Your blag secks.
 
2013-04-10 12:49:27 AM  
Your suck blogs.
 
2013-04-10 12:49:55 AM  
Your sog blucks.
 
2013-04-10 12:50:42 AM  
Your flag sicks.
 
2013-04-10 12:52:53 AM  
Bolus suck orgy
 
2013-04-10 12:54:06 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Bolus suck orgy


What! No voting?
 
2013-04-10 01:00:23 AM  
Didn't read the whole thing, but from the comments above I  guess he blames video games.
 
2013-04-10 01:07:12 AM  
It's kind of a "well duh."

FPS games are probably not the best thing for kids with emotional problems.  It's not a cause, but a likely a symptom.

It's simple...as parents, you just limit the time your kid has on the computer.  The problem really is that too many parents let the computer babysit their teens when they really are feeling the most lost and awkward.
 
2013-04-10 01:15:51 AM  
You suck bugs.
 
2013-04-10 01:18:41 AM  

slayer199: It's kind of a "well duh."

FPS games are probably not the best thing for kids with emotional problems.  It's not a cause, but a likely a symptom.


Yup. Multitudes of teenagers play violent video games. If they caused violence, wouldn't we see a lot more school shootings than we do? But I'm not sure it's necessarily a symptom. Or, rather, the propensity to play those sorts of games could be a symptom of any number of psychiatric issues. Heck, they can even be helpful for some people.

My brother, in his mid-twenties now, has been playing FPS games since Duke Nukem 3D. He had a long bout with chronic pain as a teen, and video games both helped him to escape thinking about health issues,  and to take out some of his frustrations on pixel enemies. He is one of the least violent people I know.

The writer here does touch on the simulation aspect of first person shooters. They're practice, of sorts, which certain individuals probably shouldn't have. That much makes sense. Other than that, no new insights, really.
 
2013-04-10 01:29:32 AM  
Perhaps the article was not published because, rather than explore the issues that caused you to be a potential shooter or the people and events which helped you become a better person, you leapt straight into the "whahhh video games, young people today with the zippity zappity. Go ride bikes..."
Way too many of your own unsubstantiated hypothesises and not enough delving into your own experiences (you know, the things that you could have a unique voice on). There are enough people who blame video games, or the indoors but there are also people who will tell you that being able to take out their frustrations on a first person shooter helped them. There are not many people who can tell you how they went from having a shotgun in their lunchbox to being a teacher.
 
2013-04-10 01:42:42 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Didn't read the whole thing, but from the comments above I  guess he blames video games.


Exactly that. His momma told him that video games are teh evil so he never played and that's why he didn't go postal at school.


 

ADHD Librarian: Perhaps the article was not published because, rather than explore the issues that caused you to be a potential shooter or the people and events which helped you become a better person, you leapt straight into the "whahhh video games, young people today with the zippity zappity. Go ride bikes..."having a shotgun in their lunchbox to being a teacher.

"

That seems to be more eloquent then I could have been.
 
2013-04-10 04:27:52 AM  
your blog sucks and your argument is shallow and pedantic. and unsupported.
 
2013-04-10 04:29:22 AM  
Also, once you let them know you were a psycho, Huff Po wanted nothing to do with you, you weren't banned because of your video game theory.
 
2013-04-10 04:43:16 AM  
I love my gun nut friends. I have a couple guns, and like guns, and hunt and target shoot and all that, but I don't call myself a gun nut. I don't want to F*CK my weapon. I RESPECT my weapon, as I do ALL weapons.

So, when I continue to hear stupid Fox News sh*t regarding guns, and when I see things that imply KINDERGARTEN CHILDREN SHOULD BE EQUIPPED WITH GUNS, I want to, you know, go on a shooting spree.
 
2013-04-10 05:16:25 AM  

puffy999: I love my gun nut friends. I have a couple guns, and like guns, and hunt and target shoot and all that, but I don't call myself a gun nut. I don't want to F*CK my weapon. I RESPECT my weapon, as I do ALL weapons.

So, when I continue to hear stupid Fox News sh*t regarding guns, and when I see things that imply KINDERGARTEN CHILDREN SHOULD BE EQUIPPED WITH GUNS, I want to, you know, go on a shooting spree.


Small round of applause.
 
2013-04-10 07:31:17 AM  

ADHD Librarian: Small round of applause.


Listen, I demand a HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINE of applause You know, for my rights.
 
2013-04-10 07:37:23 AM  
I blame Judas Priest.
 
2013-04-10 08:02:09 AM  

what_now: I blame Judas Priest.


Whoa, nice.


+1 Internet's for you
 
2013-04-10 08:03:12 AM  
And you sux blogs.
 
2013-04-10 08:13:00 AM  

.Blog bleg Blix


mojoimage.com
Free Image Hosting
 
2013-04-10 08:46:13 AM  

what_now: I blame Judas Priest.


Now there's one the world hasn't seen in a while.

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
Doesn't this make you want to shoot people?
 
2013-04-10 10:37:53 AM  
Jeebus.  I own guns, I believe in gun rights, I hunt ... and I think this guy is an asshole.  FFS.
 
2013-04-10 10:39:54 AM  
I hate it when my barely coherent maniacal rants maniacal aren't picked up by publishers.


I'm looking at you editors of TheNew York Times. "For the Love of Sock" was my got damned magnum opus!
 
2013-04-10 10:51:07 AM  

brap: I hate it when my barely coherent maniacal rants maniacal aren't picked up by publishers.

I'm looking at you editors of TheNew York Times. "For the Love of Sock" was my got damned magnum opus!


Maybe I'm a snob, but whenever I see a "(Some Guy)" source on a link with a headline about "...the TRUTH..." or some such I'm immediately inclined to not contribute to their pageviews.  Thank you, Brap and all others that have made that decision seem like a very good one here.
 
2013-04-10 11:15:52 AM  
"played a lot of FPS"

*close window*

Dumbass.

/yeah, look at all these engineers and designers now that Mincecraft is popular
//Look at how I'm a stunt biker now thanks to Excite Bike
 
2013-04-10 11:16:52 AM  
Conservative doesn't understand anecdotal evidence.
 
2013-04-10 11:19:30 AM  
I'm shocked! If there's one authoritative source I always go to on school shootings, it's the Huffington Post.  It has now been supplanted by peterbrownhoffmeister.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-10 11:20:49 AM  
Has anyone by chance mentioned that his blog sucks?

/probably why he got fired
 
2013-04-10 11:22:01 AM  

Philbb: BarkingUnicorn: Didn't read the whole thing, but from the comments above I  guess he blames video games.

Exactly that. His momma told him that video games are teh evil so he never played and that's why he didn't go postal at school.


 ADHD Librarian: Perhaps the article was not published because, rather than explore the issues that caused you to be a potential shooter or the people and events which helped you become a better person, you leapt straight into the "whahhh video games, young people today with the zippity zappity. Go ride bikes..."having a shotgun in their lunchbox to being a teacher."

That seems to be more eloquent then I could have been.


Maybe the secret isn't video games or access to framing hammers. The secret is making connections with people. Adults in children's lives should try to make meaningful positive connections to young people
 
2013-04-10 11:22:34 AM  
Peter Brown wrote to say
You can't play shooters today.
 
2013-04-10 11:22:34 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Didn't read the whole thing, but from the comments above I  guess he blames video games.


Pretty much. He had teen angst issues. But since he did not play video games, and did not kill anyone, then obviously video games are what causes kids to go on shooting sprees.

Sounds legit to me.
 
2013-04-10 11:24:27 AM  

what_now: I blame Judas Priest.


I blame them...for making the best metal album ever made EVER: PAINKILLER! (new window)
 
2013-04-10 11:24:46 AM  
Thine web-log exhibits the characteristics of a vacuum.
 
2013-04-10 11:25:36 AM  
Wow ... it wasn't printed because it draws intensely stupid conclusions.

The author is comparing someone who didn't do a school shooting, himself, to people who did. It is apples to oranges. So any similarities or differences are irrelevant.

There are probably millions of kids over the years who went through exactly what he did without hurting anyone, just like his case, but also did play video games. He does not even consider them.

The fact that the majority of school shooters played video games directly correlates to the fact that the vast majority of school age kids play video games.
 
2013-04-10 11:26:03 AM  
He admits he has made bad decisions all his life, but he is better now and he is telling us the only reason he didn't go on a killing spree is because he didn't play video games.

Well I'm convinced.
 
2013-04-10 11:26:18 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: BarkingUnicorn: Didn't read the whole thing, but from the comments above I  guess he blames video games.

Pretty much. He had teen angst issues. But since he did not play video games, and did not kill anyone, then obviously video games are what causes kids to go on shooting sprees.

Sounds legit to me.


And then HufPo stopped publishing his pieces, and now it's a conspiracy.
 
2013-04-10 11:26:34 AM  
I didn't play video games as a child and I turned out fine.  Of course they weren't invented at that point.
 
2013-04-10 11:27:10 AM  
Time to stop playing Sim City.  Its evil.
 
2013-04-10 11:27:36 AM  

ADHD Librarian: Perhaps the article was not published because, rather than explore the issues that caused you to be a potential shooter or the people and events which helped you become a better person, you leapt straight into the "whahhh video games, young people today with the zippity zappity. Go ride bikes..."
Way too many of your own unsubstantiated hypothesises and not enough delving into your own experiences (you know, the things that you could have a unique voice on). There are enough people who blame video games, or the indoors but there are also people who will tell you that being able to take out their frustrations on a first person shooter helped them. There are not many people who can tell you how they went from having a shotgun in their lunchbox to being a teacher.


Well, the argument that video games cause school shootings is probably more substantiated than the scary black long guns cause school shootings hypothesis.  I think every mass shooter going back to Columbine has been documented as an FPS player.  That's a greater correlation than the one between black long gun ownership and mass shootings.
 
2013-04-10 11:28:21 AM  

Inquisitive Inquisitor: And then HufPo stopped publishing his pieces, and now it's a conspiracy.


I'm sure our damning comments won't reinforce that fantasy at all, either.  Tee hee!
 
2013-04-10 11:29:19 AM  
If mass shootings actually had anything to do with videos games, why don't we see stories of how the shooter was seen 'teabagging' the bodies of the people he just killed?
 
2013-04-10 11:29:57 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Didn't read the whole thing, but from the comments above I  guess he blames video games.


C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!
 
2013-04-10 11:30:10 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Didn't read the whole thing, but from the comments above I  guess he blames video games.


Video games are fine for well formed, already cognizant minds.

Video Games are hellish tools of  programming in the presence of an unformed, unstable, value-less minds. As in children and young teens in households without strong parental guidance and firm directions in ethics, morals and possibly (gasp) religious instruction.

Or, didn't you read enough history re: Mao's reeducation of all China's children? And how that turned out. Something like 20 million dead at the hands of  properly indoctrinated minds.
 
2013-04-10 11:31:16 AM  
So when did "my barely coherent ramblings" become "truths"?
 
2013-04-10 11:32:39 AM  
So, somebody didn't think your piece was written very well, and it's a farking conspiracy?


Get over yourself, Peter Brown Egomeister.

And your twee, irritating little books.
 
2013-04-10 11:32:45 AM  
Millions of people play FPSs for millions of hours. It takes a special kind of farked in the head to think that what's good for Locusts is good for your classmates.
 
2013-04-10 11:34:14 AM  

spottymax: Peter Brown wrote to say
You can't play shooters today.


Doesn't matter much to me
As long as she's dead...

//Sorry, the cadence fit.
 
2013-04-10 11:34:16 AM  
tl;dr: "I'm terrified of ugly nerds who play video games"

The fact of the matter is that "Vidjagames Make You Crazy" is confirmation bias.  EVERYONE these days plays videogames of one kind or another.  Well, maybe not that old guy who killed a bus driver and kidnapped a kid, or some of the other old guys who have gone postal recently, but they don't count because they don't reinforce assumptions.

Hell, I even watched one of those Sunday-morning political shows about a month ago, and every single expert and demagogue (outside of the PTC guy) agreed that, at worst, violent media only seems to affect people who already have disturbed, violent impulses.  The PTC guy, on the other hand, gave the same boilerplate they've been using for ages (including 1990's videogame titles).
 
2013-04-10 11:35:44 AM  
Puffhost blows.
 
2013-04-10 11:36:20 AM  
tl;dr
I wanted to kill all the jocks when I was in school but I didn't have video games to train me ergo video games cause shootings.
 
2013-04-10 11:37:34 AM  

Mr. Eugenides: ADHD Librarian: Perhaps the article was not published because, rather than explore the issues that caused you to be a potential shooter or the people and events which helped you become a better person, you leapt straight into the "whahhh video games, young people today with the zippity zappity. Go ride bikes..."
Way too many of your own unsubstantiated hypothesises and not enough delving into your own experiences (you know, the things that you could have a unique voice on). There are enough people who blame video games, or the indoors but there are also people who will tell you that being able to take out their frustrations on a first person shooter helped them. There are not many people who can tell you how they went from having a shotgun in their lunchbox to being a teacher.

Well, the argument that video games cause school shootings is probably more substantiated than the scary black long guns cause school shootings hypothesis.  I think every mass shooter going back to Columbine has been documented as an FPS player.  That's a greater correlation than the one between black long gun ownership and mass shootings.


Or as the author, he could have delved into the fact that none of these kids, NONE, had a support network in their own house. NAH. It was the video games.
 
2013-04-10 11:38:17 AM  
This is outrageous! Not the fact that this piece was not published on HuffPo but an idiot like this was on their blogroll.
 
2013-04-10 11:39:27 AM  

Mara See Mara Do: Millions of people play FPSs for millions of hours. It takes a special kind of farked in the head to think that what's good for Locusts is good for your classmates.


GoW? Wanna play?

/but yeah, millions of shooter games, many of which are played in countries with better gun respect/laws than the states
//I love my guns, swords and other weapons, but I play video games partly for the community and the game's story and action
 
2013-04-10 11:39:33 AM  
I'd want to vett this guy's story before publishing it.  My guess is the HuffPost didn't want another made up story on their site and didn't feel like going through the effort.

He's not really saying a whole lot that's new in his blog, just that outdoors is better than indoors, and that some parents suck.  The problem is that sucky parents won't take his or anyone's advice.
 
2013-04-10 11:40:23 AM  

sure haven't: "played a lot of FPS"

*close window*

Dumbass.

/yeah, look at all these engineers and designers now that Mincecraft is popular
//Look at how I'm a stunt biker now thanks to Excite Bike



I played Asteroids a lot when I was young, and I grew up to be a triangle.
 
2013-04-10 11:40:48 AM  
While I can agree that getting teens involved in a variety of activities is probably a good thing, I don't subscribe to the idea that nature is some great mysterious anti-violence force. Taking kids hiking or canoeing or climbing can, in addition to other (yes, even non-outdoors) activities, help make kids/teens into well rounded individuals, and that sounds great, but why ban video games specifically from the list of activities? I wonder if this guy would support teaching kids/teens how to hunt. It's definitely an outdoor activity, but it uses guns and that could be practice for a killing spree. What about fishing? The next Pinhead could be practicing his torture methods for a killing spree. Imagine the carnage a 16 year old equipped with a tackle box could wreak on an elementary school! So much for the awesome healing powers of nature.
 
2013-04-10 11:41:28 AM  

slayer199: It's kind of a "well duh."

FPS games are probably not the best thing for kids with emotional problems.  It's not a cause, but a likely a symptom.

It's simple...as parents, you just limit the time your kid has on the computer.  The problem really is that too many parents let the computer babysit their teens when they really are feeling the most lost and awkward.


Agreed.  He's got cause and effect backwards.
 
2013-04-10 11:42:22 AM  
Ok first off we can kind of see the problem. He had major anger issues, yet obviously no adult was close enough in his life to help him. If he had, then he probably wouldn't have carried the guns in the first place. To me the "Video games are evil" thing is like being raised in a racist home. You hear that stuff so much it starts to stick in your mind.

The reason the kids are violent is the fact that there is less parental involvement. TV, video games and computers are babysitters and parent have more time to themselves. If video games were the problem the killings would be a lot more frequent due to the high percentage of kids playing games. But it is still low and random.

Kids need adults to say "no" or get them help when it is needed. Frequent talks with the kid or therapy in some cases would do wonders. Also limitations on usage helps. Sit with the kid (especially younger ones) and discuss what is going on in the game. Turn it into a talk on why actions were taken. Be involved.

This guy basically says "I was crazy but never hurt anyone because I didn't play video games. They are the devil. These kids played video games and killed people. They were just like me only they played video games. Video games must be the problem."

No wonder HP didn't publish it. The guy comes off as a nut job who blames games for everything. It is not video games. There were lots of killings before video games. Many were even worse than the ones now.
 
2013-04-10 11:42:44 AM  
I thought it was rock and roll that drove kids to do this.
 
2013-04-10 11:43:07 AM  
Here's a fascinating reality. Kids like video games. Most kids play video games. You could probably find the same level of correlation between say, school shooters and liking pizza, ice cream, and summer vacation. Lets take a look at Grimm's Fairytales and then compare that to the slop we're tossing on children's television now.

Also, after reading the article and the "writer's" comments about not being on the blogreel anymore, well... to quote Dr. Sheldon Cooper:

I have a theory based on an observation.
 
2013-04-10 11:43:37 AM  
white text on black...closes window

yer blergh sercks
 
2013-04-10 11:44:38 AM  

Biff_Steel: I thought it was rock and roll that drove kids to do this.


Jazz music and the marijuana.
 
2013-04-10 11:44:44 AM  
I played Star Fox on Supernintendo and now I battle giant waffle irons in space.
 
2013-04-10 11:46:04 AM  
-I played counter strike pretty much all day every day from the minute it was released, up until I graduated high school.
-I love, and am well versed in the usage of, firearms. I've owned several since my dad bought me my first .22 when I was 13.
-I had difficulty fitting in and making friends in high school(my family put me in a high school full of farm kids, I hate farms, farming, and people who don't shut up about their prize winning cattle or whatever. It's dull as hell to me)
-I never paid much attention in school
-I was flagged by the school counselor as "high risk" when it came to potentially violent tendencies

Despite all of this, I never got into a fight during high school, never resolved any problem with violent tendencies  and when the school counselors would constantly ask me what I thought about Columbine my response was always "why bother killing a ton of others if you're just going to kill yourself? I'm not suicidal or feeling like violence is ever the answer. But if I reached a point where suicide became a viable option, just kill yourself and get it over with. Why needlessly involve others and hurt entire families with no reason?"

Reality was, I may have been a loaner but I was also one of the least violent kids in class. Even though I had easy access to high powered weapons, lots of experience "training" on a violent tactical shooter, and a high level of social awkwardness.

By the authors rationale, I have just proven without a shadow of a doubt how violent video games DO NOT cause school shootings.

good day sir.
 
2013-04-10 11:48:57 AM  
White text on a black background. No farking wonder HuffPo didn't print it. Holy hell. That is an abomination to my eyes.
 
2013-04-10 11:49:05 AM  
No, honey.  You were probably absolutely gun-obsessed as a kid because you felt powerless in school for whatever various social and learning reasons.  Carrying around a gun probably made you feel like you had power, because in your head you could go, "You're making me feel like shiat, but I could end your life right now.  I could.  But I'm not.  You have no idea who has the power here right now.  I do."  And that made you feel better.

Video games wouldn't have changed that.  Actually, some video games might have helped you, by giving you a feeling of control, or being able to play the hero.  There's more to video games than just FPSes, and not all FPSes are created equal, anyway.

You also probably became a high school teacher for the power thing.  You're in there, in control of the classroom like you never could have been as a kid.  And that's just sad for so many reasons.
 
2013-04-10 11:49:48 AM  
Got to where it mentioned 'but I didn't play video games' and closed the window.


They didn't print it because it was stupid.
 
2013-04-10 11:50:18 AM  

Canton: If they caused violence, wouldn't we see a lot more school shootings than we do?


I think you meant to ask, "wouldn't we have a lot more shootings than we would otherwise?"  The question is whether we have more shootings than we would have if troubled loner kids didn't play shoot-em-up games.

On this matter, I am not certain.  It always seemed obvious to me that cartoon and video game violence was fictional, and I had no mental difficulty separating it from real life.  On the other hand, we're talking about messed up kids, who may have violent impulses and who may view games as something very different, like practice.

/Plus, I played games like Mr. Do and Exidy's Venture
//Maybe I'd have violent tendencies if someone handed me a massively pixelated bow
 
2013-04-10 11:51:38 AM  
Enjoyed the read at first,

Uh huh
Uh huh,
wow, what a little shiat you were, a framing hammer?
U huh,
U huh,
Uh........

OH FFS!!! VIDEO GAMES?!?!??
 
2013-04-10 11:58:45 AM  
fark you subby, for giving that dumbass so many hits on his blog.
 
2013-04-10 11:58:53 AM  
For the attention span-impaired: water seeks its own level.

That is, kids (especially teenagers) with unhealthy fantasies will find material to validate them, be they video games, porn, whatever. I personally believe that the way to counter that is to find ways to engage them in ways that develop a sense of empathy and community, and ultimately, self-confidence. These are the things the author lacked as a teen... with cringe-worthy results.

There is something to be said for outdoor activities but they aren't a be-all end-all. Not all kids will respond to that kind of thing - some may find them frustrating or boring. There should be other options,  such as volunteer work and public arts just to name a couple.
 
2013-04-10 11:59:47 AM  
"I've never played video games and I didn't shoot up my school.  Therefore I have the expertise and authority to conclude that video games are the reason for school shootings."
 
2013-04-10 12:01:10 PM  

jayphat: Mr. Eugenides: ADHD Librarian: Perhaps the article was not published because, rather than explore the issues that caused you to be a potential shooter or the people and events which helped you become a better person, you leapt straight into the "whahhh video games, young people today with the zippity zappity. Go ride bikes..."
Way too many of your own unsubstantiated hypothesises and not enough delving into your own experiences (you know, the things that you could have a unique voice on). There are enough people who blame video games, or the indoors but there are also people who will tell you that being able to take out their frustrations on a first person shooter helped them. There are not many people who can tell you how they went from having a shotgun in their lunchbox to being a teacher.

Well, the argument that video games cause school shootings is probably more substantiated than the scary black long guns cause school shootings hypothesis.  I think every mass shooter going back to Columbine has been documented as an FPS player.  That's a greater correlation than the one between black long gun ownership and mass shootings.

Or as the author, he could have delved into the fact that none of these kids, NONE, had a support network in their own house. NAH. It was the video games.


I think his argument was more along the line of "absent violent video games socially maladjusted loners are less likely to engage in a mass killing."

If you look at 4 factors: socially maladjusted male loner, lack of adult support, engaging in mock violence with guns, access to guns you see that all of them seem to be there for most mass shooters.  There are probably more factors to consider, but I suspect that if you were to see all of those factors in an 18 year old male you only need a triggering incident for a mass shooting.

No single factor makes a mass shooter, that doesn't mean that FPS games are not a factor.
 
2013-04-10 12:04:05 PM  
wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com

Correlation =/= Causation

/Also white text on a dark background?  OW, MY EYEBALLS!
 
2013-04-10 12:07:56 PM  

Xcott: Canton: If they caused violence, wouldn't we see a lot more school shootings than we do?

I think you meant to ask, "wouldn't we have a lot more shootings than we would otherwise?"  The question is whether we have more shootings than we would have if troubled loner kids didn't play shoot-em-up games.

On this matter, I am not certain.  It always seemed obvious to me that cartoon and video game violence was fictional, and I had no mental difficulty separating it from real life.  On the other hand, we're talking about messed up kids, who may have violent impulses and who may view games as something very different, like practice.

/Plus, I played games like Mr. Do and Exidy's Venture
//Maybe I'd have violent tendencies if someone handed me a massively pixelated bow


Yeah, that's more or less what I meant. (What I get for posting late...)

Video game violence is obviously fictional to most people. On the other hand, games get more and more realistic as technology improves, and some individuals have trouble discerning fact from fiction. Which could include certain messed up kids. Such certain messed up kids need adult intervention, not across-the-board video game bans for all. Which... has been covered in earlier posts here.

/I really miss playing Diablo.
//Killing demons and zombies with magic and enchanted axes is fun.
///Not remotely violent.
 
2013-04-10 12:10:38 PM  
Let me get this straight.
Thousands and thousands of people play violent video games and every mass shooter in the last 20 years also played violent video games.
But that correlation should have zero impact on any government action or laws regarding violent video games.
Millions and millions of people own guns and every mass shooter, by definition, has used a gun to kill people.
But that correlation means the government MUST ban all scary looking weapons and severely restrict a citizen's ability to purchase or own a firearm.

Got it.
 
2013-04-10 12:10:54 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Didn't read the whole thing, but from the comments above I  guess he blames video games.


He does.  It's a pretty standard "blame video games," maybe a teeny bit above average because he's specifically not advocating banning video games altogether.  But it's not especially compelling or well-written and there's no need to posit a conspiracy for why it wasn't published.

Also, subby is either a troll or woefully unaware of what the word "truth" means.  Either way his headline was bad and he should feel bad.
 
2013-04-10 12:10:57 PM  
That they've been set up by the NRA as a means to bump gun sales every quarter or so?  Yeah, we already know about that.
 
2013-04-10 12:11:08 PM  

SilentStrider: Your blug sucks.


Do you have a gub?
 
2013-04-10 12:11:43 PM  
"I was a psycho who got expelled from school for carrying a loaded, stolen handgun into class. Then I didn't learn my lesson and would carry around loaded sawed off shotguns. I got in lots of fights but never murdered anyone. My mom raised me to believe video games are evil, and so I do believe it, because that makes a lot of sense. Some people who did terrible things also played video games. I didn't ever murder anyone, only thought about it constantly and also thought about killing myself, so clearly video games cause murders."

I can't imagine why HuffPo wouldn't want this psychopath on their staff.
 
2013-04-10 12:13:09 PM  
Maybe HuffPo didn't post your op-ed because you're a farking moran? Just a thought.
 
2013-04-10 12:22:26 PM  
I agree with him at the end that outdoors activity is healthier than video games.  However, society is starting to shift and look at outdoorsy people as "weird"

When I tell people I fly fish, they think I'm weird because they don't understand it.  When I tell people I hunt, they think I'm a blood thirsty maniac.  When I tell people I shoot sporting clays, trap and skeet they assume I'm a gun nut who will probably shoot up a school.  I'm not a crazy hillbilly, I am an engineer and rational intelligent person that makes close to a six figure salary.   It's easier just not to tell people about these hobbies because they don't seem to be socially acceptable anymore.  I can't see how we are going to convince kids to take this path.  Video games in excess may not be the healthiest hobby but it's acceptable.
 
2013-04-10 12:28:46 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Didn't read the whole thing, but from the comments above I  guess he blames video games.


Yep.  Article was pretty good until he dove off the deep end.  And the sad part is he already indicated the factors that "Changed" his life.  Then some how because he didnt play video games and the other kids did play video games that video games MUST be the root cause.  HS school teacher, he has to be something like art or some other non-thinking subject.
 
2013-04-10 12:30:07 PM  
Truth: School shootings are caused by windmills and gay marriage.
 
2013-04-10 12:31:46 PM  
Easy to see why Huffington Post didn't print this. Correlation is not causation no matter what your personal experience is.

That doesn't explain why they were dicks about telling him why they wouldn't publish it, but I suspect there is more than he shared to his asking about it that got him canned.
 
2013-04-10 12:33:28 PM  
No , YOU are the one who sucks BLOGS!!!!
 
2013-04-10 12:34:58 PM  
Seems to me that the nerdy boys who are ostracized by the jocks and cool kids are bonding over the multiplayer online shooter games. That's a community, is what that is, and the antithesis of the stereotypical "loner." These people get to know each other, sometimes in real life as the article's example of the boys at school, and sometimes it's remote since the players may live hundreds of miles apart. But just the same it is relationships. Hmm. Seems more complex than Blogster suggests.

Did the Huff rebuff him because he didn't press the Gun Control agenda?
 
2013-04-10 12:38:45 PM  

zepher: Let me get this straight.
Thousands and thousands of people play violent video games and every mass shooter in the last 20 years also played violent video games.
But that correlation should have zero impact on any government action or laws regarding violent video games.
Millions and millions of people own guns and every mass shooter, by definition, has used a gun to kill people.
But that correlation means the government MUST ban all scary looking weapons and severely restrict a citizen's ability to purchase or own a firearm.

Got it.


Who exactly are you claiming said both of these things?  Please be specific.
 
2013-04-10 12:44:17 PM  
I have dyslexia, so all these school shooting make me want to play video games.

\how long before a game company comes out with a "School Shooter" FPS?
\\prolly already been done
 
2013-04-10 12:44:26 PM  

zepher: Let me get this straight.
Thousands and thousands of people play violent video games and every mass shooter in the last 20 years also played violent video games.
But that correlation should have zero impact on any government action or laws regarding violent video games.
Millions and millions of people own guns and every mass shooter, by definition, has used a gun to kill people.
But that correlation means the government MUST ban all scary looking weapons and severely restrict a citizen's ability to purchase or own a firearm.

Got it.


They can't take a DVD of Call of Duty and mow down 20 of their classmates.

I realize where you're coming from, but one item is an actual weapon designed to kill lots of people at once, and one is not.
 
2013-04-10 12:52:46 PM  
i280.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-10 12:56:37 PM  
Your blog is bilge water
 
2013-04-10 01:00:38 PM  
He insinuates that Video Games are training for violence... sorry, but in real life, you don't go from standing to top speed on your first step, and real life doesn't have a heads-up reticle and a radar to tell you were all the "bad" people are... Nor does real life stick you in a meat grinder tunnel and throw 10,000 bad guys with poor aim at the end of said tunnel...

Real life has innocent high schoolers who panic and flee at the first sign of a gun, and when you are on said rampage, they are screaming in terror and crying, calling for their moms and dads and praying to whatever god they believe in to save them... Real life is seeing moms cradle the bodies of their children, and realizing that the future of that child was ripped away in an instant. It takes a special kind of sociopath to not be affected by that... not even soldiers can shrug that sh-t off... video games aren't like real life because real life is truly horrific...

So STFU about video games, they are pure fantasy, no matter how "realistic" the combat is, it isn't close to real life...
 
2013-04-10 01:01:06 PM  
Perhaps the key interaction between mass shooters and video games is more inline with the training aspect mentioned.

So no, playing FPS and other violent games doesn't 'make' anyone a mass shooter.

BUT. I never hear of IDPA competitors being mass shooters, or combat vets. Usually combat vets that snap take themselves out or their spouse... when they have the *actual* training to commit mass murder effectively, efficiently.

So where does a young loner practice tactical shooting, shooting from cover, shooting at crowds in more than a 'pray and spray' manner, rapid mag changes, and get desensitized to the blood and gore of actual shooting?
 
2013-04-10 01:03:02 PM  
By all accounts there should be a lobby against MLP video games, too. No?

/bronies for obama '12
 
2013-04-10 01:10:10 PM  

FloydA: Biff_Steel: I thought it was rock and roll that drove kids to do this.

Jazz music and the marijuana.


My war-hero-grandfather freaked out when he heard I was learning jazz in music class. "That'll lead to no good" he told my father, who as a flower wearing 60's teenager, just laughed at.
 
2013-04-10 01:15:36 PM  

uttertosh: FloydA: Biff_Steel: I thought it was rock and roll that drove kids to do this.

Jazz music and the marijuana.

My war-hero-grandfather freaked out when he heard I was learning jazz in music class. "That'll lead to no good" he told my father, who as a flower wearing 60's teenager, just laughed at.



Did you end up consorting with Negroes?  The jazz music will make you do that, you know.
 
2013-04-10 01:17:11 PM  
Maybe Huff Po got rid of him because he is a gun stealing psychopath.

Or is he so mentally unstable that he doesn't realize he is exactly the type of person who should spend the rest of their lives in a padded cell?

He claims he is all better now... no mention of that being certified by a mental health professional. Anyone with kids at that school should probably pull them ASAP before he "snaps" and kills all of them with another stolen gun.
 
2013-04-10 01:20:41 PM  

chandler_vt: This is outrageous! Not the fact that this piece was not published on HuffPo but an idiot like this was on their blogroll.


Let me utterly blow your mind. 99% of "journalists" in the leftist, mainstream media are EXACTLY like this guy.

Who do you think got English degrees in college? The weird pothead/goth kid everyone picked on for reciting poetry in school.
 
2013-04-10 01:21:03 PM  

miscreant: zepher: Let me get this straight.
Thousands and thousands of people play violent video games and every mass shooter in the last 20 years also played violent video games.
But that correlation should have zero impact on any government action or laws regarding violent video games.
Millions and millions of people own guns and every mass shooter, by definition, has used a gun to kill people.
But that correlation means the government MUST ban all scary looking weapons and severely restrict a citizen's ability to purchase or own a firearm.

Got it.

They can't take a DVD of Call of Duty and mow down 20 of their classmates.

I realize where you're coming from, but one item is an actual weapon designed to kill lots of people at once, and one is not.


While a COD DVD is not itself a weapon is it not more dangerous since it can be argued that it is training generations of kids and young adults to kill?
At that point it wouldn't matter if someone went on a rampage and killed people with a gun, knife, bomb or even a car.
 
2013-04-10 01:21:07 PM  
!skcus golb ruoY

Too much "white-type-on-black-background."
 
2013-04-10 01:22:39 PM  

geek_mars: While I can agree that getting teens involved in a variety of activities is probably a good thing, I don't subscribe to the idea that nature is some great mysterious anti-violence force. Taking kids hiking or canoeing or climbing can, in addition to other (yes, even non-outdoors) activities, help make kids/teens into well rounded individuals, and that sounds great, but why ban video games specifically from the list of activities? I wonder if this guy would support teaching kids/teens how to hunt. It's definitely an outdoor activity, but it uses guns and that could be practice for a killing spree. What about fishing? The next Pinhead could be practicing his torture methods for a killing spree. Imagine the carnage a 16 year old equipped with a tackle box could wreak on an elementary school! So much for the awesome healing powers of nature.


Or this angle:

The primary marker for a serial killer is the kid who plays outside all day catching and killing small animals.

Keep your kids inside on video games or they'll become serial killers!
 
2013-04-10 01:25:34 PM  
First: That blog sucks
Second: The Video Game Industry has a rating system:
psychobuttons.com
Third: Dumb-ass parents ignore the rating systems then blame 'video games' when their crotch-fruit do something wrong.

/It's the parents failure.
 
2013-04-10 01:29:05 PM  

Rattrap007: No wonder HP didn't publish it. The guy comes off as a nut job who blames games for everything. It is not video games. There were lots of killings before video games. Many were even worse than the ones now.


Not to mention, most of the links between shooters and video games are complete lies. Every news channel reported on how the Columbine kids played violent video games and most of the population still believes it today. In reality those kids picked on people who played video games. They weren't outcasts, they were the school bullies.

Add in the fact that every single legitimate study on the subject says that video games are a healthy outlet for negative feelings and are responsible for the drop in crime in recent years and you have a better view of the real picture.


What we have is a culture heading leftwing where parents were having drugged up sex as teenagers and as a result are unable to handle parenting their kids.
 
2013-04-10 01:29:19 PM  
There are two factors in play here. First off, video games are not training for anything. My friend can shred through "Through the Fire and Flames" in Guitar Hero on the hardest setting but I doubt he could play Yankee Doodle on a real guitar if his life depended on it. Likewise, just because someone is good at Call of Duty, doesn't mean any of that would translate into real world skill. If anything, trying to behave in a real gunfight the way you play a FPS will get you even more killed. In real life you can't shake off 3 bullet wounds by holding still for 10 seconds.


Secondly, there is the issue of kids being desensitized to violence by media. This is a legitimate concern, but the kicker is that it only affects NORMAL KIDS. Normal kids might get a warped view of the world from media, but it's never going to push them into committing violence.
 
2013-04-10 01:30:15 PM  

FloydA: uttertosh: FloydA: Biff_Steel: I thought it was rock and roll that drove kids to do this.

Jazz music and the marijuana.

My war-hero-grandfather freaked out when he heard I was learning jazz in music class. "That'll lead to no good" he told my father, who as a flower wearing 60's teenager, just laughed at.


Did you end up consorting with Negroes?  The jazz music will make you do that, you know.


My thoughts exactly when I read that comment. That, and by extension The Negro would introduce the lad to reefer, and its associated madness.
 
2013-04-10 01:32:12 PM  

ByOwlLight: No, honey.  You were probably absolutely gun-obsessed as a kid because you felt powerless in school for whatever various social and learning reasons.  Carrying around a gun probably made you feel like you had power, because in your head you could go, "You're making me feel like shiat, but I could end your life right now.  I could.  But I'm not.  You have no idea who has the power here right now.  I do."  And that made you feel better.

Video games wouldn't have changed that.  Actually, some video games might have helped you, by giving you a feeling of control, or being able to play the hero.  There's more to video games than just FPSes, and not all FPSes are created equal, anyway.

You also probably became a high school teacher for the power thing.  You're in there, in control of the classroom like you never could have been as a kid.  And that's just sad for so many reasons.


Pretty good post. He is probably more of a danger to that class than any student is, shooters included.
 
2013-04-10 01:33:34 PM  
Hodor blog hodors.
 
2013-04-10 01:34:19 PM  

ferretman: crotch-fruit


I hate this term.  Fruit are delicious and that makes me a pedophile.
 
2013-04-10 01:36:38 PM  

FloydA: uttertosh: FloydA: Biff_Steel: I thought it was rock and roll that drove kids to do this.

Jazz music and the marijuana.

My war-hero-grandfather freaked out when he heard I was learning jazz in music class. "That'll lead to no good" he told my father, who as a flower wearing 60's teenager, just laughed at.


Did you end up consorting with Negroes?  The jazz music will make you do that, you know.


I have peoples of all races and religions in my extended family. And I grow, so, Obviously jazz was to blame....
 
2013-04-10 01:41:05 PM  

AngryJailhouseFistfark: FloydA: uttertosh: FloydA: Biff_Steel: I thought it was rock and roll that drove kids to do this.

Jazz music and the marijuana.

My war-hero-grandfather freaked out when he heard I was learning jazz in music class. "That'll lead to no good" he told my father, who as a flower wearing 60's teenager, just laughed at.


Did you end up consorting with Negroes?  The jazz music will make you do that, you know.

My thoughts exactly when I read that comment. That, and by extension The Negro would introduce the lad to reefer, and its associated madness.


And ya can't furget 'dem injuns either!
So Sayeth The Flock!
i3.ytimg.com
 
2013-04-10 01:41:21 PM  
How does this crap get on fark?

Why does fark get shiattier and shiattier everyday?
 
2013-04-10 01:43:44 PM  
Is there a "Gamers Anonymous?" Holy sh*t some of y'all need to attend if there is.

NERDS!.jpg
 
2013-04-10 01:46:50 PM  
Anyone mention blog suckage yet?
 
2013-04-10 01:47:59 PM  

zepher: Let me get this straight.
Thousands and thousands of people play violent video games and every mass shooter in the last 20 years also played violent video games.
But that correlation should have zero impact on any government action or laws regarding violent video games.
Millions and millions of people own guns and every mass shooter, by definition, has used a gun to kill people.
But that correlation means the government MUST ban all scary looking weapons and severely restrict a citizen's ability to purchase or own a firearm.

Got it.


I had you flagged as smart, but I'm not sure if I'm following where you're going here.

1.) The number of video game players is not thousands, it is multi-millions.
2.) Many (roughly half+) of the "recent" "mass shooters" have not played video games.
2a.) You may be confused about that because the media usually lies and says they did, then years later retracts it when no one is paying attention anymore. (see: columbine)
3.) Whether it would "help" or not, there is no legal standing in a free country to restrict or ban video games of any type.
4.) "Mass shooters" are rarely gun owners. Most guns used in violent crimes are stolen from legal gun owners because the shooter could not legally acquire one.
5.) Based on the Constitution and Supreme Court, regulation of firearms is a states rights issue.
 
2013-04-10 01:48:27 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: !skcus golb ruoY

Too much "white-type-on-black-background."


I'm now blind.
 
2013-04-10 01:48:34 PM  
The huffpo wouldn't run his advertisement for his program?  Weird I tells ya!
 
2013-04-10 01:49:32 PM  

justtray: "I was a psycho who got expelled from school for carrying a loaded, stolen handgun into class. Then I didn't learn my lesson and would carry around loaded sawed off shotguns. I got in lots of fights but never murdered anyone. My mom raised me to believe video games are evil, and so I do believe it, because that makes a lot of sense. Some people who did terrible things also played video games. I didn't ever murder anyone, only thought about it constantly and also thought about killing myself, so clearly video games cause murders."

I can't imagine why HuffPo wouldn't want this psychopath on their staff.


This bears repeating.
 
2013-04-10 01:50:27 PM  

forever_blowing_bubbles: Maybe HuffPo didn't post your op-ed because you're a farking moran? Just a thought.


Keep in mind that this was the mind writing leftist, pro-Obama articles on Huff Po for some length of time prior to that.
 
2013-04-10 01:51:20 PM  
Plenty of kids play violent video games and don't shoot people.

The one constant that has been deliberately swept under the rug is all these shooters were taking psychotropic medication that causes suicidal / homicidal thoughts.  It's not limited to school shootings...

http://www.ssristories.com/index.php?sort=drug&p=
 
2013-04-10 01:54:14 PM  

wambu: Easy to see why Huffington Post didn't print this. Correlation is not causation no matter what your personal experience is.

That doesn't explain why they were dicks about telling him why they wouldn't publish it, but I suspect there is more than he shared to his asking about it that got him canned.


They probably were worried if they told him he was crazy that he'd come shoot up their office.
 
2013-04-10 01:57:20 PM  

CeroX: He insinuates that Video Games are training for violence... sorry, but in real life, you don't go from standing to top speed on your first step, and real life doesn't have a heads-up reticle and a radar to tell you were all the "bad" people are... Nor does real life stick you in a meat grinder tunnel and throw 10,000 bad guys with poor aim at the end of said tunnel...

Real life has innocent high schoolers who panic and flee at the first sign of a gun, and when you are on said rampage, they are screaming in terror and crying, calling for their moms and dads and praying to whatever god they believe in to save them... Real life is seeing moms cradle the bodies of their children, and realizing that the future of that child was ripped away in an instant. It takes a special kind of sociopath to not be affected by that... not even soldiers can shrug that sh-t off... video games aren't like real life because real life is truly horrific...

So STFU about video games, they are pure fantasy, no matter how "realistic" the combat is, it isn't close to real life...


Very good point. I've seen stuff about how someone should make a movie or game or two where it is realistic just to shut people like the author here up.

When people get shot they don't just fall over and die. They bleed out, sometimes for hours, while screaming and crying and trying to claw their way to safety. Stuff like that.
 
2013-04-10 02:06:02 PM  

Bullseyed: 4.) "Mass shooters" are rarely gun owners. Most guns used in violent crimes are stolen from legal gun owners because the shooter could not legally acquire one.


You've got two separate issues here, and this point is the critical failure in all the firearms regulations debate. Most of the guns in the "Mass Shootings" were legally owned by the shooter or a member of the shooter's immediate family. In contrast, the guns used in most of your "crime" shootings, that is, armed robbery, gang-warfare, that kind of thing, those tend to be obtained illegally . They're stolen or bought through straw-purchases.

The "crazy" shootings and the "crime" shootings are two entirely different things requiring different solutions. Sure, both are illegal and both stem from some degree of insanity, whether it's psychosis or some degree of anti-social personality disorder, but you are being overly simplistic if you include Columbine, Newtown, & Aurora with your gang-related shootings, the back-alley stick-up, the murder of the Texas District Attorney and his wife, and the Arizona Sheriff's Deputy shootings.
 
2013-04-10 02:09:02 PM  

Bullseyed: wambu: Easy to see why Huffington Post didn't print this. Correlation is not causation no matter what your personal experience is.

That doesn't explain why they were dicks about telling him why they wouldn't publish it, but I suspect there is more than he shared to his asking about it that got him canned.

They probably were worried if they told him he was crazy that he'd come shoot up their office.


He makes me think of this guy.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-10 02:14:40 PM  

slayer199: It's kind of a "well duh."

FPS games are probably not the best thing for kids with emotional problems.  It's not a cause, but a likely a symptom.

It's simple...as parents, you just limit the time your kid has on the computer.  The problem really is that too many parents let the computer babysit their teens when they really are feeling the most lost and awkward.


Another, in my opinion (and personal experience) better, option: Actually talk to and monitor your kids, biatches!  I was a loner, a "failed joiner" too, asshole.  Guess what?  I also played violent games.  I didn't have CoD, but I had DooM, but only when at my dad's (which, as time went on, became a less and less desireable place to be for reasons that do not relate to this thread, but involve words rhyming with "hog pit").  My mom, while she let me play SOME violent games, (hell, for my birthday she bought me a Dreamcast, and on a subsequent one bought me Skies of Arcadia, a game she had reservations about; I had to prove to her beforehand that (a) it wasn't as bad as she thought [which was difficult in the late 90s internet], and (b) I was mature enough to handle the violence and themes within it.  [Same with Power Stone and its sequel, but they were easier].  At the time, I was surprised she did get me Skies because, while I still had and played the demo I got from a ODCM subscription, she still voiced her objections to it.)  monitored what games I played, and outright forbid games like GTA.  When she did forbid games, she also explicitly explained why she forbid them.  It was not "because I said so"; it was "this game has you stealing cars, shooting people, breaking the law, and killing cops."  Her objection to DooM was "it has demons and gore, and you're too young/immature to handle that right now" (NOTE:  She was not, nor is not, religious.  She felt that I would have nightmares).  As I got older and more mature, the "forbidden" list shrunk.  While she limited my time, it was more because I had schoolwork to do, rather than some "go outside and play" bullshiat.
 
2013-04-10 02:15:00 PM  

slayer199: It's kind of a "well duh."

FPS games are probably not the best thing for kids with emotional problems.  It's not a cause, but a likely a symptom.


That's the trouble right there.  Nobody in politics or grassroots activism knows how to distinguish those things.  They're pushing to ban the symptoms.
 
2013-04-10 02:15:28 PM  
all arguments about correlation =/= causation aside...

i'm surprised more people aren't concerned about a culture that views graphically realistic representations of killing other people as entertainment.
 
2013-04-10 02:16:46 PM  

friday13: slayer199: It's kind of a "well duh."

FPS games are probably not the best thing for kids with emotional problems.  It's not a cause, but a likely a symptom.

It's simple...as parents, you just limit the time your kid has on the computer.  The problem really is that too many parents let the computer babysit their teens when they really are feeling the most lost and awkward.

Another, in my opinion (and personal experience) better, option: Actually talk to and monitor your kids, biatches!  I was a loner, a "failed joiner" too, asshole.  Guess what?  I also played violent games.  I didn't have CoD, but I had DooM, but only when at my dad's (which, as time went on, became a less and less desireable place to be for reasons that do not relate to this thread, but involve words rhyming with "hog pit").  My mom, while she let me play SOME violent games, (hell, for my birthday she bought me a Dreamcast, and on a subsequent one bought me Skies of Arcadia, a game she had reservations about; I had to prove to her beforehand that (a) it wasn't as bad as she thought [which was difficult in the late 90s internet], and (b) I was mature enough to handle the violence and themes within it.  [Same with Power Stone and its sequel, but they were easier].  At the time, I was surprised she did get me Skies because, while I still had and played the demo I got from a ODCM subscription, she still voiced her objections to it.)  monitored what games I played, and outright forbid games like GTA.  When she did forbid games, she also explicitly explained why she forbid them.  It was not "because I said so"; it was "this game has you stealing cars, shooting people, breaking the law, and killing cops."  Her objection to DooM was "it has demons and gore, and you're too young/immature to handle that right now" (NOTE:  She was not, nor is not, religious.  She felt that I would have nightmares).  As I got older and more mature, the "forbidden" list shrunk.  While she limited my time, it was more because ...


I should also mention that she let me put DooM on our (at the time) shared computer when I was 14 or so, so as to give you a (rather inaccurate, but better than blind guessing) of the time scope involved.
 
2013-04-10 02:17:48 PM  
What the name of the video game that Hitler used to play?
 
2013-04-10 02:17:52 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: If you look at 4 factors: socially maladjusted male loner, lack of adult support, engaging in mock violence with guns, access to guns you see that all of them seem to be there for most mass shooters. There are probably more factors to consider, but I suspect that if you were to see all of those factors in an 18 year old male you only need a triggering incident for a mass shooting.


I'd say even those are nothing more than extremely broad indicators, not useful for any meaningful predictions. Even on the low side those factors describe thousands of people. Hell, they describe at least one person in every city and town, so how many does that make in the country? And yet you can count the number of mass shootings without running out of fingers and toes.
 
2013-04-10 02:20:14 PM  

Franko: What the name of the video game that Hitler used to play?


Meincraft.
 
2013-04-10 02:20:30 PM  

Franko: What the name of the video game that Hitler used to play?


Return to Castle Wolfenstein, but, oddly enough, not Castle Wolfenstein.
 
2013-04-10 02:22:43 PM  

Franko: What the name of the video game that Hitler used to play?


Rufen zur Pflicht: der Somme
 
2013-04-10 02:26:19 PM  
yawn..
 
2013-04-10 02:37:03 PM  

slayer199: It's kind of a "well duh."

FPS games are probably not the best thing for kids with emotional problems.  It's not a cause, but a likely a symptom.

It's simple...as parents, you just limit the time your kid has on the computer.  The problem really is that too many parents let the computer babysit their teens when they really are feeling the most lost and awkward.


THIS, thank you.

I've played as many hours of FPS games as anyone can claim to have done.  I was, 10 years ago, in the top 100 CS players world wide.

I HAVE NEVER SHOT A HUMAN BEING.  Despite having been "accidentally" shot by my step brother (he dropped the farking gun).  I have to admit I was tempted to shoot him.
That being said, I have never shot a living animal, human, or anything else that moves.  I have shot a few trees and killed at least a couple.  (for shame, I know)
I have access to a rather absurd number of fire arms.  To be conservative, hundreds of unique firearms are available to me, mainly through family members.  They have been since I was 6 years old.

Even when I was an unhappy teenager, I never seriously considered shooting anyone.

THIS IS A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE, it has nothing to do with guns, gun culture, video games, or any of that claptrap nonsense.
 
2013-04-10 02:42:42 PM  
Also, and just a quick one here....

Video games are singularly HORRIBLE at teaching people to handle real guns.  Seriously, really really bad.

Not only do the animations in the games rarely match the actual guns mechanics, but the switches and buttons and releases are not shown in games and if they are, invariably they are shown wrong.  Furthermore, you can't run and shoot a gun and hit anything.  No one can.  Maybe the best trained military folks, but no cop, no kid and no video gamer can.

One last thing... if you have never fired a real gun, or a real Full Auto gun, a video game is not going to help you at all.  Real guns are heavy, they are loud, and they are forceful.  Your mouse doesn't have force feedback like the grip of a real gun does.  ;)  I have seen professional shooters nearly wet themselves when handed a full auto AK, and 1 minute later hand it back and say things like "omg that was insane" "too much for me" "how are you supposed to control it?".  The real thing is REAL, and it's far more than you are going to expect from a game.
 
2013-04-10 02:47:23 PM  

Kahabut: Also, and just a quick one here....

Video games are singularly HORRIBLE at teaching people to handle real guns.  Seriously, really really bad.

Not only do the animations in the games rarely match the actual guns mechanics, but the switches and buttons and releases are not shown in games and if they are, invariably they are shown wrong.  Furthermore, you can't run and shoot a gun and hit anything.  No one can.  Maybe the best trained military folks, but no cop, no kid and no video gamer can.

One last thing... if you have never fired a real gun, or a real Full Auto gun, a video game is not going to help you at all.  Real guns are heavy, they are loud, and they are forceful.  Your mouse doesn't have force feedback like the grip of a real gun does.  ;)  I have seen professional shooters nearly wet themselves when handed a full auto AK, and 1 minute later hand it back and say things like "omg that was insane" "too much for me" "how are you supposed to control it?".  The real thing is REAL, and it's far more than you are going to expect from a game.


Also THIS.
 
2013-04-10 02:52:25 PM  
Of course. HuffPost didn't publish this crap because this guy's a public relations nightmare no matter what the response is. He's an idiot for not seeing this point himself. Oops, nope. Sorry. He may not be an idiot, but he definitely still has issues; he's mad enough that HP didn't post his blog that he ran it himself - he's still a failed joiner. He's just an example of someone who does NOT go to engineering or business school, but instead wants to be a writer. And there you go.
 
2013-04-10 03:00:59 PM  

ADHD Librarian: Perhaps the article was not published because, rather than explore the issues that caused you to be a potential shooter or the people and events which helped you become a better person, you leapt straight into the "whahhh video games, young people today with the zippity zappity. Go ride bikes..."
Way too many of your own unsubstantiated hypothesises and not enough delving into your own experiences (you know, the things that you could have a unique voice on). There are enough people who blame video games, or the indoors but there are also people who will tell you that being able to take out their frustrations on a first person shooter helped them. There are not many people who can tell you how they went from having a shotgun in their lunchbox to being a teacher.


And the blogger didn't know the difference between "who's" and "whose".
 
2013-04-10 03:01:57 PM  
Kids need to be taught that thoughts are not the same as actions, and that the transition to actions have consequences that are sometimes irreversible. The goal shouldn't be to stop the human mind from occasionally imagining terrible things. The goal should be to educate kids on how not to take it past the thought stage.

In my high school days I was sort of a failed joiner too. I wanted to be cool, but I just wasn't "cool." I had violent thoughts and access to guns.

I used to go to all ages punk rock shows with mosh pits that on the surface appear very violent. In fact there was usually at least a few injuries at every show. The lyrics were very suggestive like "can I go out and kill tonight?" "I hack the heads off little girls and hang them on my walls" "making the bombs".

Kids today would be expelled or possibly arrested for simply writing the lyrics we used to sing along with. The music did not make my friends and I do terrible things. It gave us a safe outlet to vent that teen angst. Playing violent video games is the same thing.
 
2013-04-10 03:13:26 PM  

what_now: I blame Judas Priest.


You've been playing the game backwards.
 
2013-04-10 03:16:02 PM  

Franko: What the name of the video game that Hitler used to play?


Axis and Allies?
 
2013-04-10 03:24:43 PM  

kerouac555: all arguments about correlation =/= causation aside...

i'm surprised more people aren't concerned about a culture that views graphically realistic representations of killing other people as entertainment.


As mentioned in the thread, there are no realistic or accurate representations of killing or death in mainstream video games, movies or tv.

That could be part of the problem. We have a stylized, fake view of violence, rather than a real one.
 
2013-04-10 03:36:06 PM  
Funny, since first person shooters starting becoming common, gun violence in America has gone down.  I imagine (as others have pointed out) that violent games don't make people violent, but violent people are attracted to violent video games (or people in general are attracted to violent video games, most likely)
 
2013-04-10 03:44:41 PM  

ferretman: First: That blog sucks
Second: The Video Game Industry has a rating system:
[psychobuttons.com image 449x285]
Third: Dumb-ass parents ignore the rating systems then blame 'video games' when their crotch-fruit do something wrong.

/It's the parents failure.


Are you seriously suggesting that parents take responsibility for the media content their children consume?!?!?!?!!? Yer crazy!
 
2013-04-10 03:49:30 PM  
The irony of his blog is that he proves that violent video games have no bearing on school shooter/violent tendencies.  He had no access to violent video games and still had violent school shooter tendencies.  Ergo, violent video games are to blame?

Also, there were plenty of school "shootings" before video games existed.  For instance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_school_massacre
Where, in germany, they do everything ubermacht and use flamethrowers, lances, and maces in their school "shootings".
 
2013-04-10 03:56:28 PM  
Confirmation bias is confirmed.
 
2013-04-10 04:06:29 PM  

megarian: Franko: What the name of the video game that Hitler used to play?

Meincraft.


Lol.  Need a new keyboard.

If you'd spelled it Meinkraft, I'd have to bill you for a monitor too.
 
2013-04-10 04:08:28 PM  
I thought it was a good read until I got to the "violent video games" part.  How quickly an opinion can change.
 
2013-04-10 04:23:12 PM  

DSummZZZ: Franko: What the name of the video game that Hitler used to play?

Axis and Allies?


Secret weapons of the Luftwaffe? That would explain the fixation on exotic stuff he figured would win the war.
 
2013-04-10 04:27:03 PM  
It's not that the Huffington Post doesn't want people to read it, they just don't want people to associate that drivel with their website. That read less like a treatise on the roots of school violence and more like a rambling manifesto. So I can understand HuffPo not only rejecting it, but wanting to cut all ties with this guy from that point forward.
 
2013-04-10 04:42:05 PM  

ferretman: First: That blog sucks
Second: The Video Game Industry has a rating system:
[psychobuttons.com image 449x285]
Third: Dumb-ass parents ignore the rating systems then blame 'video games' when their crotch-fruit do something wrong.

/It's the parents failure.


There is a kid from Newtown who got on the news a while back. He was setting up a group where the kids would turn in their violent video games, pledge not to play them etc. He went on and on about CoD and a few others. His mom was soo proud, he kept going on about how he didn't feel it was right and KIDS shouldn't have these games etc.

I was like hmmmm. What are the chances that the games he is talking about are all rated M. And sure enough all of them were. These kids shouldn't even be playing these games
 
2013-04-10 05:04:11 PM  
This guy is on to something. Citing violent videogames as a persistent symptom is far more reasonable than citing pistol clip sizes. Yet law will be implemented only on the latter.
 
2013-04-10 05:04:28 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: ADHD Librarian: Perhaps the article was not published because, rather than explore the issues that caused you to be a potential shooter or the people and events which helped you become a better person, you leapt straight into the "whahhh video games, young people today with the zippity zappity. Go ride bikes..."
Way too many of your own unsubstantiated hypothesises and not enough delving into your own experiences (you know, the things that you could have a unique voice on). There are enough people who blame video games, or the indoors but there are also people who will tell you that being able to take out their frustrations on a first person shooter helped them. There are not many people who can tell you how they went from having a shotgun in their lunchbox to being a teacher.

Well, the argument that video games cause school shootings is probably more substantiated than the scary black long guns cause school shootings hypothesis.  I think every mass shooter going back to Columbine has been documented as an FPS player.  That's a greater correlation than the one between black long gun ownership and mass shootings.


your opinion is bad and you should feel bad
 
2013-04-10 05:41:00 PM  

rotarymike: Perhaps the key interaction between mass shooters and video games is more inline with the training aspect mentioned.

So no, playing FPS and other violent games doesn't 'make' anyone a mass shooter.

BUT. I never hear of IDPA competitors being mass shooters, or combat vets. Usually combat vets that snap take themselves out or their spouse... when they have the *actual* training to commit mass murder effectively, efficiently.

So where does a young loner practice tactical shooting, shooting from cover, shooting at crowds in more than a 'pray and spray' manner, rapid mag changes, and get desensitized to the blood and gore of actual shooting?


Nowhere. "Violent video games" like Call of Duty prepare you for combat to the same extent that Operation prepares you for open heart surgery, or at least that's been my experience.

Admittedly, my experience is incomplete. While I have played violent video games, been in combat, and played Operation, I have never performed open heart surgery. If there are any surgeons here who feel that playing Operation gives someone an idea of how to do their job with any degree of effectiveness, feel free to correct me.
 
2013-04-10 05:45:21 PM  

soporific: That read less like a treatise on the roots of school violence and more like a rambling manifesto.


Which makes it fit right in with everything else they publish.

I think most male children grew up with similar pressures.  Angry, frustrated, never quite fitting in and fascinated by male oriented pursuits like war.
Many kids in my generation and later also grew up playing video games, just like children prior to us grew up hitting each other with wooden swords.  Despite all this laughable "training" we still had the ability to differentiate right from wrong and fantasy from reality.
The biggest change is that now we've come to treat any unwanted behavior in the mentally ill with dangerous cocktails of drugs, at least for when we bother to treat them at all.    We've done bad by members of our own society. Which leaves the blame on us, our leadership,big pharma, etc...  But no one wants to hear that.

This leaves us with a case of us trying to explain away our monsters using whichever thing we hate most as the central theme.
If you don't like guns, its the guns fault.  If you don't like game or movies, its the entertainment industries fault.  If you don't like liberals or conservatives, you invent the logic that explains why they are to blame.

Huffpo has a theme it wants to run and wont publish theories that don't jive with theirs, but I don't see them as doing anything more than the rest of society has been guilty of.   Our forefathers great nation is crumbling around us and we're busy trying to blame it on someone else.
 
2013-04-10 06:03:48 PM  
Is it so hard to write a freaking sentence in English?

That opening sentence was the closing of that browser window.
 
2013-04-10 06:15:31 PM  
Although I won't disagree with the idea that FPS play could become symptomatic to a school shooter, the author of the article is dead wrong on one of his major assumptions.  He says that the school shooters, like himself, had difficulty making friends.  At Columbine at least, Harris and Klebold had little trouble making friends and were more the bullies than the bullied.  The issue isn't that shooters have difficulty making friends, the issue is that most of them have no interest in friendship, or in other people in general.  Most are pathologically psychopathic, not depressed.
 
2013-04-10 06:24:29 PM  

megarian: Franko: What the name of the video game that Hitler used to play?

Meincraft.


Puns have probably killed more people than video games ever will. Case in point: This one just about choked me to death on a mouthful of Coke Zero.
 
2013-04-10 06:48:14 PM  

Mara See Mara Do: Millions of people play FPSs for millions of hours. It takes a special kind of farked in the head to think that what's good for Locusts is good for your classmates.


I'm pretty sure it just takes anger, helplessness, and access to a weapon. Wanna know what else correlates nearly 100% to school shooting? Being bullied, being shat on every day. 14 years after Columbine, bullying is still business as usual, even by teachers under the guise of zero tolerance, and all the lip service in the world hasn't enacted meaningful change.

Plus there are those occasional true psychotics that need meds more than anything, but mental heath stigmas are as strong as ever and budgets have been slashed everywhere.
 
2013-04-10 07:01:17 PM  

slayer199: It's kind of a "well duh."

FPS games are probably not the best thing for kids with emotional problems.  It's not a cause, but a likely a symptom.

It's simple...as parents, you just limit the time your kid has on the computer.  The problem really is that too many parents let the computer babysit their teens when they really are feeling the most lost and awkward.


he lost me at the video games thing, i was a bullied loner with few friends too and played just about every violent video game around at the time (97ish) and never once hurt anyone tho i did get into plenty of trouble with administrators over stupid crap mainly out of anger that they never did a damn thing about the bullies desipte that being right around the start of the big zero tolerance for bulling in that district
 
2013-04-10 07:02:26 PM  
I thought it was a decent article.
 
2013-04-10 08:01:02 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: Well, the argument that video games cause school shootings is probably more substantiated than the scary black long guns cause school shootings hypothesis.  I think every mass shooter going back to Columbine has been documented as an FPS player.  That's a greater correlation than the one between black long gun ownership and mass shootings.


What are you 12? 'scary long black guns' way to rebut the argument no one is making there big guy.
The clue though, to your false equivalency is that someone who only plays video games but has no access to guns cannot become a school shooter, while someone who owns guns but has no access to video games...
Sure, the guns don't 'cause' people to become shooters. Plenty of people (myself included) used guns while in our teens, but felt no need to bring them to school. But surely (no matter how deep up your own gun-loving arse your head is) you can see that guns play a much more pivotal role in gun deaths than any other object you might imagine could be blamed?
 
2013-04-10 08:56:11 PM  
Sigh.

I have played video games since I was a child, around the time home video games were invented. As I grew into teendom, I played lots of violent video games. By my 20s, I had one of every video game console ever released in North America. I collected them. I played a lot of them. Doom was supposed to warp me permanently, according to some people, and yet I played a LOT of Doom. And Doom II. And Wolfenstein 3D. And Syndicate. And Night Trap. And HUNDREDS of other violent games.

As a kid, I had toy guns. Pop guns. Cap guns. Rubber pellet guns. Squirt guns. Laser Tag guns. I had an arsenal of toy guns, and my friends would come over to play Cowboys & Indians, Cops & Robbers, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, and other gun-based shoot-each-other-in-my-huge-yard games. I was essentially an only child, my older sibling being out of the house before I was through middle school.

However, I never once used a real gun. The closest I got was a BB gun. I never once thought about harming other people in some mass display of violence. I never once got in trouble for violent acts. I made it through school, some college, and a rough marriage without shooting, stabbing, or violently assaulting anyone. I did get in a couple fights in middle school and high school, but they were because I was attacked first and had to defend myself. I haven't been in physical altercation of any sort since I was a teenager.

I also listened to rock & roll music, despite the PMRC saying it would do terrible things to my brain, and if you ask my family or my fiancee, I'm probably one of the nicest, sweetest guys you'd ever meet (not timid or shy, and not afraid to speak my mind, but not a jerk by any means). I've been held up at gunpoint twice, and managed to talk my way through it without getting my face blasted off, because I'm a communicator and I'm an easy-going, talk-you-down kind of guy. I'm heavily Liberal in my ideals, but not without a few Conservative stances thanks to being raised by Conservative parents in a Conservative family. I live simply. I write, I create, and when necessary I do various day jobs to make ends meet (because royalties are smaller than you'd think). I'm a generally responsible, intelligent, decent human being.

I had a period of mental illness, too, due to some severe brain trauma suffered when a fatal disease lived up to its reputation and temporarily killed me. I won't go into details about all that, but to say that if I hadn't had some good friends, a mother who was very protective of me, and teachers who helped me reach my potential, I might have succumbed completely to my disorder and ended up a very different person (literally as well as figuratively). Instead, I beat it and became what a psychiatrist referred to as "the most sane person [he had] ever met."

So what I'm saying here is that  despite  the violent video games,  despite  the rock and roll music,  despite the lonely childhood,  despite  the toy guns of all shapes and sizes, despite  my love of comic books and horror movies,  despite  the trauma of temporarily dying, and  despite  the rather severe mental illness I temporarily suffered, I never killed, maimed, shot, stabbed, or physically hurt anyone since the last time a would-be bully attacked me in high school, and even then I didn't do severe harm to my attacker.

What I'm saying is that the claims that toy guns, video games, rock music, comic books, scary/violent movies, and being bullied are "what causes gun violence" are utter bullshiat. What causes gun violence is the following:

1. Mental illness being misdiagnosed, not diagnosed, and not treated properly by doctors, friends, and family.
2. Having weapons that can almost effortless kill a whole lot of people readily at hand.

I didn't kill people when I was sick because I didn't have the weapons to do it, and because I had good people around me who kept me focused and helped me to retain my empathy. The absence of EITHER of these things would have taken me down a different path. The absence of BOTH of these things might have made me a horrible historical footnote.

TL;DR Version:
The author of the article is being obtuse and ignorant, and Huffington Post was right to never print his dumb-as-rocks article. Also, on a personal level, it's a farking crime that a guy who writes petulant drivel like that gets paid to do it, and I'm still taking on day jobs to make ends meet.
 
2013-04-10 09:23:10 PM  
This just in: Stupid people think video games are real life.
 
2013-04-10 09:34:54 PM  
Sulky scrub goo.
 
2013-04-10 10:01:54 PM  
You know what else all those kids had in common?  They were able to easily get guns, but let's complain about the video games.

I don't hate guns, I just love video games.

Oh yeah, maybe the reason your mom told you the video games were evil is because she realized you were a violent kid with problems.
 
2013-04-10 10:14:40 PM  

Gyrfalcon: megarian: Franko: What the name of the video game that Hitler used to play?

Meincraft.

Puns have probably killed more people than video games ever will. Case in point: This one just about choked me to death on a mouthful of Coke Zero.


Someone slipped whiskey into my Coke Zero.

I win!?!
 
2013-04-10 10:25:24 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Didn't read the whole thing, but from the comments above I  guess he blames video games.


Exactly.

And he's full of shiat because I've played these types of games since the dawn of time, and I've never shot up a school.
 
2013-04-10 11:43:56 PM  
Yer blargghh sux like a 1000-solar-mass black hole with 14 quadrillion fired-up Hoover vacuum cleaners dropped into it.

WHY DID YOU STEAL THE GUN, WEAKSAUCE??
 
2013-04-11 12:11:55 AM  

RembrandtQEinstein: what_now: I blame Judas Priest.

I blame them...for making the best metal album ever made EVER: PAINKILLER! (new window)


You mean British Steel is the greatest metal album ever made.

\m/
 
2013-04-11 12:12:39 AM  
Just what the world needs, another frightened adult trying to solve a decades-old problem with a too-simple solution. Another person whose sense of compassion starts and stops with "well, if it were *me* ... *I* would never." Imagining yourself in someone else's situation for your own enjoyment, or to reinforce your self-image, isn't empathy - it's narcissism. You're not helping.

"But I am saying that it is very dangerous to allow troubled, angry, teenage boys access to killing practice, even if that access is only virtual killing practice."

As a former troubled youth, believe me when I say: spending hours playing combat simulators didn't ever make me feel like killing real people was going to solve my problems. (Seriously, have you played a shooter? You don't kill one guy and win, you kill and kill and kill for dozens, maybe hundreds of hours, and typically the fastest way you see a "game over" screen is when you die.) Having parents who kept me locked me out of the house in snowstorms was a much greater incentive to commit acts of indiscriminate violence than having a floppy disk ready to install a BFG-9000 on any computer I could find.

Aslo: as someone who's fired several different types of firearms in supervised target-shooting situations, I would like to point out that there's essentially nothing in the typical first- or third-person shooter that prepares you for the weight of a real gun, the slipperiness of a loose round, the noise of a discharge, or the force of recoil. That can only come from spending a significant amount of time firing guns.
But by all means, keep them off the video games. I'm sure that without HD graphics they can't use their *imagination* to practice killing.

"Have you ever heard of a school shooter who's hobbies are kayaking, rock climbing, and fly-fishing?"

No, because those things require a parent to invest a deceptively large amount of money, and a large amount of time. I've never heard of a school shooter whose parents were involved in their day-to-day life. Treating the kids like they're violent sociopaths in training isn't likely to get a kid to open up to their parents ... but good luck trying to drag a kid out to half-drown in a whitewater when he'd hoped to spend the weekend playing the midnight launch of a co-op shooter with his only friend.


Christ, what an asshole.
 
2013-04-11 01:20:23 AM  

goodole312: he lost me at the video games thing, i was a bullied loner with few friends too and played just about every violent video game around at the time (97ish) and never once hurt anyone tho i did get into plenty of trouble with administrators over stupid crap mainly out of anger that they never did a damn thing about the bullies desipte that being right around the start of the big zero tolerance for bulling in that district


The video game angle is overplayed...but for some people, video games, music, whatever entertainment they choose may be a negative external influence....especially if the parents are disinterested.
 
2013-04-11 09:38:07 AM  
It's not the video games, it's not a troubled home life, it's not a personality/social disorder. It's all of those things combined with the psychoactive "meds" school shooters have been taking for most of their lives to treat their depression, anxiety, and ADHD. Sometimes the meds help, and sometimes they send someone spinning off their axis into the abyss.
 
2013-04-11 11:20:06 AM  

Bullseyed: zepher


I was trying to, very poorly it seems, point out the absurdity in the gun-grabber's argument that because a tiny percentage of people use guns to commit mas shootings we must therefore ban all guns and especially the scary looking ones.
 
2013-04-11 02:24:11 PM  

ADHD Librarian: Mr. Eugenides: Well, the argument that video games cause school shootings is probably more substantiated than the scary black long guns cause school shootings hypothesis.  I think every mass shooter going back to Columbine has been documented as an FPS player.  That's a greater correlation than the one between black long gun ownership and mass shootings.

What are you 12? 'scary long black guns' way to rebut the argument no one is making there big guy.
The clue though, to your false equivalency is that someone who only plays video games but has no access to guns cannot become a school shooter, while someone who owns guns but has no access to video games...
Sure, the guns don't 'cause' people to become shooters. Plenty of people (myself included) used guns while in our teens, but felt no need to bring them to school. But surely (no matter how deep up your own gun-loving arse your head is) you can see that guns play a much more pivotal role in gun deaths than any other object you might imagine could be blamed?


Are you actually under the impression that you've accomplished anything when you post something like that?  Other than perhaps demonstrating that you have some anger issues that is.
 
2013-04-11 09:45:21 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: ADHD Librarian: Mr. Eugenides: Well, the argument that video games cause school shootings is probably more substantiated than the scary black long guns cause school shootings hypothesis.  I think every mass shooter going back to Columbine has been documented as an FPS player.  That's a greater correlation than the one between black long gun ownership and mass shootings.

What are you 12? 'scary long black guns' way to rebut the argument no one is making there big guy.
The clue though, to your false equivalency is that someone who only plays video games but has no access to guns cannot become a school shooter, while someone who owns guns but has no access to video games...
Sure, the guns don't 'cause' people to become shooters. Plenty of people (myself included) used guns while in our teens, but felt no need to bring them to school. But surely (no matter how deep up your own gun-loving arse your head is) you can see that guns play a much more pivotal role in gun deaths than any other object you might imagine could be blamed?

Are you actually under the impression that you've accomplished anything when you post something like that?  Other than perhaps demonstrating that you have some anger issues that is.


Posting on FARK is supposed to accomplish something?
The more you know...
 
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