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(Some Guy)   The truths about school shootings that Huffington Post doesn't want you to read   (peterbrownhoffmeister.wordpress.com) divider line 182
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17160 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Apr 2013 at 11:13 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-10 03:49:30 PM  
The irony of his blog is that he proves that violent video games have no bearing on school shooter/violent tendencies.  He had no access to violent video games and still had violent school shooter tendencies.  Ergo, violent video games are to blame?

Also, there were plenty of school "shootings" before video games existed.  For instance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_school_massacre
Where, in germany, they do everything ubermacht and use flamethrowers, lances, and maces in their school "shootings".
 
2013-04-10 03:56:28 PM  
Confirmation bias is confirmed.
 
2013-04-10 04:06:29 PM  

megarian: Franko: What the name of the video game that Hitler used to play?

Meincraft.


Lol.  Need a new keyboard.

If you'd spelled it Meinkraft, I'd have to bill you for a monitor too.
 
2013-04-10 04:08:28 PM  
I thought it was a good read until I got to the "violent video games" part.  How quickly an opinion can change.
 
2013-04-10 04:23:12 PM  

DSummZZZ: Franko: What the name of the video game that Hitler used to play?

Axis and Allies?


Secret weapons of the Luftwaffe? That would explain the fixation on exotic stuff he figured would win the war.
 
2013-04-10 04:27:03 PM  
It's not that the Huffington Post doesn't want people to read it, they just don't want people to associate that drivel with their website. That read less like a treatise on the roots of school violence and more like a rambling manifesto. So I can understand HuffPo not only rejecting it, but wanting to cut all ties with this guy from that point forward.
 
2013-04-10 04:42:05 PM  

ferretman: First: That blog sucks
Second: The Video Game Industry has a rating system:
[psychobuttons.com image 449x285]
Third: Dumb-ass parents ignore the rating systems then blame 'video games' when their crotch-fruit do something wrong.

/It's the parents failure.


There is a kid from Newtown who got on the news a while back. He was setting up a group where the kids would turn in their violent video games, pledge not to play them etc. He went on and on about CoD and a few others. His mom was soo proud, he kept going on about how he didn't feel it was right and KIDS shouldn't have these games etc.

I was like hmmmm. What are the chances that the games he is talking about are all rated M. And sure enough all of them were. These kids shouldn't even be playing these games
 
2013-04-10 05:04:11 PM  
This guy is on to something. Citing violent videogames as a persistent symptom is far more reasonable than citing pistol clip sizes. Yet law will be implemented only on the latter.
 
2013-04-10 05:04:28 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: ADHD Librarian: Perhaps the article was not published because, rather than explore the issues that caused you to be a potential shooter or the people and events which helped you become a better person, you leapt straight into the "whahhh video games, young people today with the zippity zappity. Go ride bikes..."
Way too many of your own unsubstantiated hypothesises and not enough delving into your own experiences (you know, the things that you could have a unique voice on). There are enough people who blame video games, or the indoors but there are also people who will tell you that being able to take out their frustrations on a first person shooter helped them. There are not many people who can tell you how they went from having a shotgun in their lunchbox to being a teacher.

Well, the argument that video games cause school shootings is probably more substantiated than the scary black long guns cause school shootings hypothesis.  I think every mass shooter going back to Columbine has been documented as an FPS player.  That's a greater correlation than the one between black long gun ownership and mass shootings.


your opinion is bad and you should feel bad
 
2013-04-10 05:41:00 PM  

rotarymike: Perhaps the key interaction between mass shooters and video games is more inline with the training aspect mentioned.

So no, playing FPS and other violent games doesn't 'make' anyone a mass shooter.

BUT. I never hear of IDPA competitors being mass shooters, or combat vets. Usually combat vets that snap take themselves out or their spouse... when they have the *actual* training to commit mass murder effectively, efficiently.

So where does a young loner practice tactical shooting, shooting from cover, shooting at crowds in more than a 'pray and spray' manner, rapid mag changes, and get desensitized to the blood and gore of actual shooting?


Nowhere. "Violent video games" like Call of Duty prepare you for combat to the same extent that Operation prepares you for open heart surgery, or at least that's been my experience.

Admittedly, my experience is incomplete. While I have played violent video games, been in combat, and played Operation, I have never performed open heart surgery. If there are any surgeons here who feel that playing Operation gives someone an idea of how to do their job with any degree of effectiveness, feel free to correct me.
 
2013-04-10 05:45:21 PM  

soporific: That read less like a treatise on the roots of school violence and more like a rambling manifesto.


Which makes it fit right in with everything else they publish.

I think most male children grew up with similar pressures.  Angry, frustrated, never quite fitting in and fascinated by male oriented pursuits like war.
Many kids in my generation and later also grew up playing video games, just like children prior to us grew up hitting each other with wooden swords.  Despite all this laughable "training" we still had the ability to differentiate right from wrong and fantasy from reality.
The biggest change is that now we've come to treat any unwanted behavior in the mentally ill with dangerous cocktails of drugs, at least for when we bother to treat them at all.    We've done bad by members of our own society. Which leaves the blame on us, our leadership,big pharma, etc...  But no one wants to hear that.

This leaves us with a case of us trying to explain away our monsters using whichever thing we hate most as the central theme.
If you don't like guns, its the guns fault.  If you don't like game or movies, its the entertainment industries fault.  If you don't like liberals or conservatives, you invent the logic that explains why they are to blame.

Huffpo has a theme it wants to run and wont publish theories that don't jive with theirs, but I don't see them as doing anything more than the rest of society has been guilty of.   Our forefathers great nation is crumbling around us and we're busy trying to blame it on someone else.
 
2013-04-10 06:03:48 PM  
Is it so hard to write a freaking sentence in English?

That opening sentence was the closing of that browser window.
 
2013-04-10 06:15:31 PM  
Although I won't disagree with the idea that FPS play could become symptomatic to a school shooter, the author of the article is dead wrong on one of his major assumptions.  He says that the school shooters, like himself, had difficulty making friends.  At Columbine at least, Harris and Klebold had little trouble making friends and were more the bullies than the bullied.  The issue isn't that shooters have difficulty making friends, the issue is that most of them have no interest in friendship, or in other people in general.  Most are pathologically psychopathic, not depressed.
 
2013-04-10 06:24:29 PM  

megarian: Franko: What the name of the video game that Hitler used to play?

Meincraft.


Puns have probably killed more people than video games ever will. Case in point: This one just about choked me to death on a mouthful of Coke Zero.
 
2013-04-10 06:48:14 PM  

Mara See Mara Do: Millions of people play FPSs for millions of hours. It takes a special kind of farked in the head to think that what's good for Locusts is good for your classmates.


I'm pretty sure it just takes anger, helplessness, and access to a weapon. Wanna know what else correlates nearly 100% to school shooting? Being bullied, being shat on every day. 14 years after Columbine, bullying is still business as usual, even by teachers under the guise of zero tolerance, and all the lip service in the world hasn't enacted meaningful change.

Plus there are those occasional true psychotics that need meds more than anything, but mental heath stigmas are as strong as ever and budgets have been slashed everywhere.
 
2013-04-10 07:01:17 PM  

slayer199: It's kind of a "well duh."

FPS games are probably not the best thing for kids with emotional problems.  It's not a cause, but a likely a symptom.

It's simple...as parents, you just limit the time your kid has on the computer.  The problem really is that too many parents let the computer babysit their teens when they really are feeling the most lost and awkward.


he lost me at the video games thing, i was a bullied loner with few friends too and played just about every violent video game around at the time (97ish) and never once hurt anyone tho i did get into plenty of trouble with administrators over stupid crap mainly out of anger that they never did a damn thing about the bullies desipte that being right around the start of the big zero tolerance for bulling in that district
 
2013-04-10 07:02:26 PM  
I thought it was a decent article.
 
2013-04-10 08:01:02 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: Well, the argument that video games cause school shootings is probably more substantiated than the scary black long guns cause school shootings hypothesis.  I think every mass shooter going back to Columbine has been documented as an FPS player.  That's a greater correlation than the one between black long gun ownership and mass shootings.


What are you 12? 'scary long black guns' way to rebut the argument no one is making there big guy.
The clue though, to your false equivalency is that someone who only plays video games but has no access to guns cannot become a school shooter, while someone who owns guns but has no access to video games...
Sure, the guns don't 'cause' people to become shooters. Plenty of people (myself included) used guns while in our teens, but felt no need to bring them to school. But surely (no matter how deep up your own gun-loving arse your head is) you can see that guns play a much more pivotal role in gun deaths than any other object you might imagine could be blamed?
 
2013-04-10 08:56:11 PM  
Sigh.

I have played video games since I was a child, around the time home video games were invented. As I grew into teendom, I played lots of violent video games. By my 20s, I had one of every video game console ever released in North America. I collected them. I played a lot of them. Doom was supposed to warp me permanently, according to some people, and yet I played a LOT of Doom. And Doom II. And Wolfenstein 3D. And Syndicate. And Night Trap. And HUNDREDS of other violent games.

As a kid, I had toy guns. Pop guns. Cap guns. Rubber pellet guns. Squirt guns. Laser Tag guns. I had an arsenal of toy guns, and my friends would come over to play Cowboys & Indians, Cops & Robbers, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, and other gun-based shoot-each-other-in-my-huge-yard games. I was essentially an only child, my older sibling being out of the house before I was through middle school.

However, I never once used a real gun. The closest I got was a BB gun. I never once thought about harming other people in some mass display of violence. I never once got in trouble for violent acts. I made it through school, some college, and a rough marriage without shooting, stabbing, or violently assaulting anyone. I did get in a couple fights in middle school and high school, but they were because I was attacked first and had to defend myself. I haven't been in physical altercation of any sort since I was a teenager.

I also listened to rock & roll music, despite the PMRC saying it would do terrible things to my brain, and if you ask my family or my fiancee, I'm probably one of the nicest, sweetest guys you'd ever meet (not timid or shy, and not afraid to speak my mind, but not a jerk by any means). I've been held up at gunpoint twice, and managed to talk my way through it without getting my face blasted off, because I'm a communicator and I'm an easy-going, talk-you-down kind of guy. I'm heavily Liberal in my ideals, but not without a few Conservative stances thanks to being raised by Conservative parents in a Conservative family. I live simply. I write, I create, and when necessary I do various day jobs to make ends meet (because royalties are smaller than you'd think). I'm a generally responsible, intelligent, decent human being.

I had a period of mental illness, too, due to some severe brain trauma suffered when a fatal disease lived up to its reputation and temporarily killed me. I won't go into details about all that, but to say that if I hadn't had some good friends, a mother who was very protective of me, and teachers who helped me reach my potential, I might have succumbed completely to my disorder and ended up a very different person (literally as well as figuratively). Instead, I beat it and became what a psychiatrist referred to as "the most sane person [he had] ever met."

So what I'm saying here is that  despite  the violent video games,  despite  the rock and roll music,  despite the lonely childhood,  despite  the toy guns of all shapes and sizes, despite  my love of comic books and horror movies,  despite  the trauma of temporarily dying, and  despite  the rather severe mental illness I temporarily suffered, I never killed, maimed, shot, stabbed, or physically hurt anyone since the last time a would-be bully attacked me in high school, and even then I didn't do severe harm to my attacker.

What I'm saying is that the claims that toy guns, video games, rock music, comic books, scary/violent movies, and being bullied are "what causes gun violence" are utter bullshiat. What causes gun violence is the following:

1. Mental illness being misdiagnosed, not diagnosed, and not treated properly by doctors, friends, and family.
2. Having weapons that can almost effortless kill a whole lot of people readily at hand.

I didn't kill people when I was sick because I didn't have the weapons to do it, and because I had good people around me who kept me focused and helped me to retain my empathy. The absence of EITHER of these things would have taken me down a different path. The absence of BOTH of these things might have made me a horrible historical footnote.

TL;DR Version:
The author of the article is being obtuse and ignorant, and Huffington Post was right to never print his dumb-as-rocks article. Also, on a personal level, it's a farking crime that a guy who writes petulant drivel like that gets paid to do it, and I'm still taking on day jobs to make ends meet.
 
2013-04-10 09:23:10 PM  
This just in: Stupid people think video games are real life.
 
2013-04-10 09:34:54 PM  
Sulky scrub goo.
 
2013-04-10 10:01:54 PM  
You know what else all those kids had in common?  They were able to easily get guns, but let's complain about the video games.

I don't hate guns, I just love video games.

Oh yeah, maybe the reason your mom told you the video games were evil is because she realized you were a violent kid with problems.
 
2013-04-10 10:14:40 PM  

Gyrfalcon: megarian: Franko: What the name of the video game that Hitler used to play?

Meincraft.

Puns have probably killed more people than video games ever will. Case in point: This one just about choked me to death on a mouthful of Coke Zero.


Someone slipped whiskey into my Coke Zero.

I win!?!
 
2013-04-10 10:25:24 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Didn't read the whole thing, but from the comments above I  guess he blames video games.


Exactly.

And he's full of shiat because I've played these types of games since the dawn of time, and I've never shot up a school.
 
2013-04-10 11:43:56 PM  
Yer blargghh sux like a 1000-solar-mass black hole with 14 quadrillion fired-up Hoover vacuum cleaners dropped into it.

WHY DID YOU STEAL THE GUN, WEAKSAUCE??
 
2013-04-11 12:11:55 AM  

RembrandtQEinstein: what_now: I blame Judas Priest.

I blame them...for making the best metal album ever made EVER: PAINKILLER! (new window)


You mean British Steel is the greatest metal album ever made.

\m/
 
2013-04-11 12:12:39 AM  
Just what the world needs, another frightened adult trying to solve a decades-old problem with a too-simple solution. Another person whose sense of compassion starts and stops with "well, if it were *me* ... *I* would never." Imagining yourself in someone else's situation for your own enjoyment, or to reinforce your self-image, isn't empathy - it's narcissism. You're not helping.

"But I am saying that it is very dangerous to allow troubled, angry, teenage boys access to killing practice, even if that access is only virtual killing practice."

As a former troubled youth, believe me when I say: spending hours playing combat simulators didn't ever make me feel like killing real people was going to solve my problems. (Seriously, have you played a shooter? You don't kill one guy and win, you kill and kill and kill for dozens, maybe hundreds of hours, and typically the fastest way you see a "game over" screen is when you die.) Having parents who kept me locked me out of the house in snowstorms was a much greater incentive to commit acts of indiscriminate violence than having a floppy disk ready to install a BFG-9000 on any computer I could find.

Aslo: as someone who's fired several different types of firearms in supervised target-shooting situations, I would like to point out that there's essentially nothing in the typical first- or third-person shooter that prepares you for the weight of a real gun, the slipperiness of a loose round, the noise of a discharge, or the force of recoil. That can only come from spending a significant amount of time firing guns.
But by all means, keep them off the video games. I'm sure that without HD graphics they can't use their *imagination* to practice killing.

"Have you ever heard of a school shooter who's hobbies are kayaking, rock climbing, and fly-fishing?"

No, because those things require a parent to invest a deceptively large amount of money, and a large amount of time. I've never heard of a school shooter whose parents were involved in their day-to-day life. Treating the kids like they're violent sociopaths in training isn't likely to get a kid to open up to their parents ... but good luck trying to drag a kid out to half-drown in a whitewater when he'd hoped to spend the weekend playing the midnight launch of a co-op shooter with his only friend.


Christ, what an asshole.
 
2013-04-11 01:20:23 AM  

goodole312: he lost me at the video games thing, i was a bullied loner with few friends too and played just about every violent video game around at the time (97ish) and never once hurt anyone tho i did get into plenty of trouble with administrators over stupid crap mainly out of anger that they never did a damn thing about the bullies desipte that being right around the start of the big zero tolerance for bulling in that district


The video game angle is overplayed...but for some people, video games, music, whatever entertainment they choose may be a negative external influence....especially if the parents are disinterested.
 
2013-04-11 09:38:07 AM  
It's not the video games, it's not a troubled home life, it's not a personality/social disorder. It's all of those things combined with the psychoactive "meds" school shooters have been taking for most of their lives to treat their depression, anxiety, and ADHD. Sometimes the meds help, and sometimes they send someone spinning off their axis into the abyss.
 
2013-04-11 11:20:06 AM  

Bullseyed: zepher


I was trying to, very poorly it seems, point out the absurdity in the gun-grabber's argument that because a tiny percentage of people use guns to commit mas shootings we must therefore ban all guns and especially the scary looking ones.
 
2013-04-11 02:24:11 PM  

ADHD Librarian: Mr. Eugenides: Well, the argument that video games cause school shootings is probably more substantiated than the scary black long guns cause school shootings hypothesis.  I think every mass shooter going back to Columbine has been documented as an FPS player.  That's a greater correlation than the one between black long gun ownership and mass shootings.

What are you 12? 'scary long black guns' way to rebut the argument no one is making there big guy.
The clue though, to your false equivalency is that someone who only plays video games but has no access to guns cannot become a school shooter, while someone who owns guns but has no access to video games...
Sure, the guns don't 'cause' people to become shooters. Plenty of people (myself included) used guns while in our teens, but felt no need to bring them to school. But surely (no matter how deep up your own gun-loving arse your head is) you can see that guns play a much more pivotal role in gun deaths than any other object you might imagine could be blamed?


Are you actually under the impression that you've accomplished anything when you post something like that?  Other than perhaps demonstrating that you have some anger issues that is.
 
2013-04-11 09:45:21 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: ADHD Librarian: Mr. Eugenides: Well, the argument that video games cause school shootings is probably more substantiated than the scary black long guns cause school shootings hypothesis.  I think every mass shooter going back to Columbine has been documented as an FPS player.  That's a greater correlation than the one between black long gun ownership and mass shootings.

What are you 12? 'scary long black guns' way to rebut the argument no one is making there big guy.
The clue though, to your false equivalency is that someone who only plays video games but has no access to guns cannot become a school shooter, while someone who owns guns but has no access to video games...
Sure, the guns don't 'cause' people to become shooters. Plenty of people (myself included) used guns while in our teens, but felt no need to bring them to school. But surely (no matter how deep up your own gun-loving arse your head is) you can see that guns play a much more pivotal role in gun deaths than any other object you might imagine could be blamed?

Are you actually under the impression that you've accomplished anything when you post something like that?  Other than perhaps demonstrating that you have some anger issues that is.


Posting on FARK is supposed to accomplish something?
The more you know...
 
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