Nidiot: I'd like to know what some people would regard as sufficient evidence before you'd accept a girl's claim of being raped?

In general there is not going to be a room full of witnesses, video recordings or the like. It mostly only ever comes down to her word vs his. Judging by some of the responses here, her word carries less value than that of the alleged rapist/s.

Lady Justice is most often depicted with a set of scales typically suspended from her right hand, upon which she measures the strengths of a case's support and opposition. She is also often seen carrying a double-edged sword in her left hand, symbolizing the power of Reason and Justice, which may be wielded either for or against any party.

It's an imperfect system, for sure. But it beats every alternative I can think of, short of unfalsifiable mind-reading.

100 Watt Walrus: Look, there's a lot of this going on in this thread. You have no clue what the police did or did not do. It's possible they dropped the ball. It's also possible that there wasn't enough evidence to arrest anyone.

The pictures should be evidence enough because: She's underage, and drunk. Two different ways she can't legally consent. Plus, distributing the photos is also a crime.

Well, shiat. There are no words.

/stop this effing planet, I want to get off

MooseUpNorth: Nidiot: It mostly only ever comes down to her word vs his.

I accuse you of raping a goat. How much evidence should I have to present before someone takes my word over yours over your alleged guilt?

Pictures would be good evidence.

Lsherm: [img42.imageshack.us image 620x348]

Still can't look at that picture without tearing up.

Is that her??

Is her name Rita or Reytayah?

BarkingUnicorn: 
So it's no different from U. S. incapacitated-consent jurisprudence.

Possibly not? I don't have much knowledge of the US legal system. I was just quoting some stuff from a Canadian site talking about it.

/Aussie

BarkingUnicorn: Abacus9: 100 Watt Walrus: Look, there's a lot of this going on in this thread. You have no clue what the police did or did not do. It's possible they dropped the ball. It's also possible that there wasn't enough evidence to arrest anyone.

The pictures should be evidence enough because: She's underage, and drunk. Two different ways she can't legally consent. Plus, distributing the photos is also a crime.

Great.  Crimes were committed.

By whom?  Whoever she says?  That's not how it works.

Is that what I said? No. And perhaps you missed the part in bold. Are you saying that the police don't have the authority to check their cell phones for these pictures, or they don't have the ability to find out which device the pictures originate from?

Rehtaeh?

She never stood a chance.

This kind of thing definitely happened in the late 90s when I was this age. I knew a girl who had gotten drunk and taken advantage of while another guy put it on VHS. The girl's brother and a friend went and kicked some ass, took the tape and destroyed it. Nothing was reported, to save the girl from shame. No one went to jail. No one besides her family found out until later. By senior year the girl was sharing the story with her friends. Point of the story is that if we all had Facebook back then, what happened to her would have been shared immediately, before she could recover emotionally. So I don't think this generation of kids is raping or taking advantage more frequently, they're just getting found out faster. If anything, the light shining on the situation may discourage future perps. In the meantime the glare of the social media light makes a small fraction of the girls kill themselves. If the girl in my story had killed herself, no one at school would have known why.

NicoFinn: Lsherm: [img42.imageshack.us image 620x348]

Still can't look at that picture without tearing up.

Is that her??


If I recall correctly, that was a different girl from last year. Don't know if she was raped, but she was bullied pretty mercilessly. She wrote different messages on signs and put them on her Facebook or whatever. She was literally begging for help. She also hanged herself.

Jim_Callahan: Pictures taken of the rape of an underage girl and redistributed by the accusers but the police found there was insufficient evidence to lay charges?

I suspect there's a lot to this story that's not being shared by the article, there.  My money is on "the pictures didn't actually depict the crime and the parent is just trying to mitigate their own guilt over not responding to bullying by making shiat up" at minimum.

Apparently the photo shows one of the boys having sex with her while she was vomiting. The police said they could not proceed with charges on child porn because the boys could have denied knowing she was 15. I did not know knowledge as to age was relevant.

I listened to Rehtaeh's mother yesterday speak about what has happened. It made me cry. I don't cry.

Why does the drunk means you can't give consent only apply to women?

We're the guys also drunk? If they were wouldn't that mean thy also couldn't give consent?

Almost Everybody Poops: BarkingUnicorn: Almost Everybody Poops: BarkingUnicorn: Almost Everybody Poops: miss diminutive: "An investigation into an earlier sexual assault was completed, and in consultation with the Crown, there was insufficient evidence to lay charges," MacRae said.

So there's apparently picture evidence of the crime being distributed by the offenders and the Crown doesn't have enough evidence to charge them?

Also, maybe I'm already out of touch with today's youth, but who bullies a girl who's been a victim of rape? Seriously? I know I did some pretty hurtful things in my biatchy teenage days, but something like this would have never crossed my mind. I honestly don't understand.

Anyway, my heart breaks for this girl.

Seriously, this.

It appears to be a lack of empathy and stigma on part of law enforcement.  But this shiat should not stand.

I wish a thousand butt-hole surfers to penetrate the rapists asses while covered in knives and arugula.

WTF did LE do wrong?  Do you seriously expect them to waterboard confessions out of four boys just because a girl accused them?  WTF is wrong with you people?

I would assume the PHOTOS THEY TOOK WHILE RAPING HER would be enough evidence, but that's just me.

Well, apparently something was insufficient about those photos (another article says one was circulated, showing her "having sex with one of the boys").  Boy unidentifiable in pic.  Nobody would talk.  So we're back to waterboarding, right?

So because the boy was unidentifiable she wasn't raped?

The boy was identified. According to Rehtaeh's mother he was looking at the camera giving a thumbs up in the photo I referenced above. The police also know who owned the phone that took the picture.

BarkingUnicorn: Warlordtrooper: Why does the drunk means you can't give consent only apply to women?

We're the guys also drunk? If they were wouldn't that mean thy also couldn't give consent?

Not to being penetrated.  Rape laws (a subset of "sexual assault" laws) involve penetration of the sexual, oral, or "elimination" orifices, "however slight."

Also, "drunk" is insufficient; you must be so drunk that an ordinary (including "sober") observer would reasonably conclude that you are incapable of making rational decisions.

Ah ok. So basically pissed drunk.

Its sad that the rapists aren't being charged but it's better then convicting somebody without a level of evidence that is beyond reasonable doubt

I have no idea what happened and of course it's a horrible story.  HOWEVER, I have yet to meet a 17 year old (did she have them at 15) with so many tattoos that was all sweet and innocent.  Regret can be a hard pill for a kid to swallow and I'm guessing parents who let their kid run around with all that ink (fake or not) were probably not clued into how she was feeling until too late.

If there was not sufficient evidence to prosecute rape how about prosecuting the people who were sending this trash around the net? Surely there are some laws that were broken?

Lsherm: [img42.imageshack.us image 620x348]

Still can't look at that picture without tearing up.

Neither can I, it appears.

Jesus Christ, we really have failed this generation of kids. Not sure what specific thing came unglued. Perhaps it's a laundry list of things.

Horribly sad.

A lot of people here seem to be wondering how there was 'insufficient evidence...'

I can answer that question pretty easily, actually.

Let's assume for a second that there was a rape- it did happen, no consent.
That's easy enough- not just underage, but drunk... the entirety of the western world has laws preventing someone from being held to a contract signed while visibly intoxicated or under duress precisely because they're incapable of consenting... I see that as precedent for the same limitations on consent here.
If I sign a contract drunk, I can later get out of the contract by saying I didn't understand what was going on. If the photos (and any personal account or witness statement) confirm she was as far gone as I'd suspect here... even if she gave something that got taken as consent... she has a legal right to retract that consent once sober, in theory. [Word of warning to guys here- if she's buzzed, you're probably ok... wasted... even a yes is shaky, so just... don't.]

If the photo didn't include the boy's face, we very quickly have a problem.
She was drunk- she may not be able to identify the boys accurately (or accurately enough).
Even if the photo has identifying features (distinguishing birthmark or summat), they'd at least need a specific accusation against the correct individual to compel him to show it for comparison.
If it doesn't... well. We have a problem because we have a victim, but no way to identify the suspect beyond the hazy memories of a drunken, traumatic event.

As for the photo(s?)... they went viral- at a certain point, well before viral, it becomes impossible to trace them back to a source.
And bloody difficult to charge everyone who ever shared it with a count of child pornography, simply because there aren't enough handcuffs to go around.

Evidence may abound, but it's also all useless evidence unless a suspect comes forward and confesses, or someone close to the event is able to identify him/them.

Police have to let crimes they KNOW happened slide all the time because they are literally unable to pursue them... they lack a victim willing to prosecute, or legally usable evidence, or even a good suspect... or once in a while, they have all of the above, but lack the resources to do anything about it.

At least the boys involved came to the realization that what they did was wrong.

//sarcasm mode off

Obviously he was just trying to advance in the main storyline.



STAY CLASSY ADFLY.

gibbon1: NewportBarGuy: I hope the assholes die of ass cancer, slowly.

Passing pictures of her being raped around is a felony, her suicide should invoke the felony murder rule.

This.

She was underaged, how is that not child porn?

Photos with tongue ring, tattoos, bongs and booze = sweet innocent teenage girl
One photo no one has seen = horrible teenage boys who must be put down in the most horrible way
Strange days....

xanadian: All I know is...I am NOT looking forward to when my son becomes a hormone-riddled teenager. I can preach and teach good behavior so much, but the other party has to listen.  And this kid has a hard time listening.

sack of oranges... they'll listen and there won't be bruises... win-win

jxc: Photos with tongue ring, tattoos, bongs and booze = sweet innocent teenage girl
One photo no one has seen = horrible teenage boys who must be put down in the most horrible way
Strange days....

So a rape isn't actually a rape if the victim's appearance doesn't meet with your approval.

Gotcha.

I don't usually support Anonymous and their antics, but go get em guys.  This is sick.  Barring any kind of crazy info we don't have, the whole town should be ashamed of itself and mostly the rcmp.  Let's hope these goons learn their lesson in prison on how much fun it is to get raped.  Heck maybe we can call in a favor with the AB and get them to gang rape these lil fun boys and publish the pics.  Anyhoo, at the very least I hope her family can find peace someday as this is a tragedy that gets played out way too often.  If it was a teacher, farkers would be bro fisting.  Let's hope they think of this the next time one of those threads comes up.

My only CSB:  A friend in college decided to bed this disgusting douche that myself and her girlfriends warned her about.  She goes over there and they hook up one night and he videos the whole thing.  Shows it around to his friends and it gets back to us.  Myself and this douche actually came from the same hometown before college so I knew him and his ilk.  Dropped a dime to some friends that were still at home and when he went back for spring break they found him on a boardwalk one night.  He returned to college with a broken arm, nose, and two black eyes.  His arm had been broken over the rail of the boardwalk.  Another day we went and retrieved the tape and smashed it.  L as we'll call her, dropped out of college after another semester and just started working at home.  Probably waits at a Chili's or some such these days.  The douche-who knows.  Hopefully he didn't do anything like that again.

Lorelle: doglover: Teenage girls are the least compassionate creatures on the planet. Even honey badger steers clear. Teenage boys are right behind them. I think it's some kind of mixture of ignorance and hormones.

Some are. I was bullied a lot in junior high and high school, mostly by other girls. In jr. high it was female gang members, in h.s. it was stuck-up, biatchy female socs.

/eventually got revenge on the latter
//enjoyed it immensely


I remember that.  You got covered in pigs' blood or something at the prom, then everything started on fire and shiat.  Freaked me the hell out.