miss diminutive: "An investigation into an earlier sexual assault was completed, and in consultation with the Crown, there was insufficient evidence to lay charges," MacRae said.

So there's apparently picture evidence of the crime being distributed by the offenders and the Crown doesn't have enough evidence to charge them?

Also, maybe I'm already out of touch with today's youth, but who bullies a girl who's been a victim of rape? Seriously? I know I did some pretty hurtful things in my biatchy teenage days, but something like this would have never crossed my mind. I honestly don't understand.

Anyway, my heart breaks for this girl.

Seriously, this.

It appears to be a lack of empathy and stigma on part of law enforcement.  But this shiat should not stand.

I wish a thousand butt-hole surfers to penetrate the rapists asses while covered in knives and arugula.

Pocket Ninja: What's going to be truly sick are the comments in this thread come morning.

FARK is not your personal erotica site.

FTA: "Rape culture"

Hoo boy there's a great trolling buzzword.

http://evebitfirst.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/a-man-is-a-rape-supporte r- if/

This sounds like a little from column A and a little from column B. I imagine she got a little wild. For Fark's sake; she's got tats at 17. Then there's this whole other situation. I could see where, if she was raped; she'd want to hurt herself, hince, the tattoos.

On the other hand; her parents could have found out that she participated in a sex act know as "the Ghostbusters" and she said rape so she wouldn't be grounded till judgement day.

/ I don't know which is right; and neither will anyone else, this side of the afterlife

// my sympathies to the family

It'd be a damn shame if the rapists, the asshole who took the pictures and the asshole(s) who thought it would be "funny" to post them online (assuming they're different people) were identified and outed by Anonymous.

Especially if that resulted in them receiving some nasty (but non-fatal) beatings.

Yep. Real shame, that.

farkingismybusiness: Pocket Ninja: What's going to be truly sick are the comments in this thread come morning.

FARK is not your personal erotica site.

Shut your whore mouth.

/fap fap fap fap fap

Lorelle: doglover: Teenage girls are the least compassionate creatures on the planet. Even honey badger steers clear. Teenage boys are right behind them. I think it's some kind of mixture of ignorance and hormones.

Some are. I was bullied a lot in junior high and high school, mostly by other girls. In jr. high it was female gang members, in h.s. it was stuck-up, biatchy female socs.

/eventually got revenge on the latter
//enjoyed it immensely

msupf: Popcorn Johnny: Sorry, you don't convict someone of rape based on the word of one person and a photo or two.

so, if presented with the picture of a girl obviously inebriated or impaired, possibly displaying pain, being sexually violated, and testimony from that girl that it was not consensual, you'd immediately call bullshiat on her?

Dumbass

WATCH THE PERSONAL ATTACKS / HATESPEECH THERES A NEWB MOD.

"prick" and "asshole" are ok though

iheartscotch: This sounds like a little from column A and a little from column B. I imagine she got a little wild. For Fark's sake; she's got tats at 17. Then there's this whole other situation. I could see where, if she was raped; she'd want to hurt herself, hince, the tattoos.

On the other hand; her parents could have found out that she participated in a sex act know as "the Ghostbusters" and she said rape so she wouldn't be grounded till judgement day.

/ I don't know which is right; and neither will anyone else, this side of the afterlife

// my sympathies to the family

After all, people making false accusations of rape are TOTALLY gonna kill themselves over it!

Bullshiat we don't know which is right. The girl made a poor choice to get drunk (particularly at that age). But that is irrelevant. The men who raped her are, 100%, at fault for raping her.

Alright, I'll be the first to ask:

Was it rape-rape?

/Hell, please

The best way to eliminate school shootings and decrease teen suicides is to make bullying a capital crime, preferably with public executions.

vernonFL: Was she "raped", or was it more like "raped" rape?

Just forget about the rape altogether. No one should be harassed so relentlessly by a bunch of ignorant sadists about anything. Nothing makes it ok.

Profoundly sick society we live in.

miss diminutive: BarkingUnicorn: WTF did LE do wrong? Do you seriously expect them to waterboard confessions out of four boys just because a girl accused them? WTF is wrong with you people?

I'd be happy with feather-tickle confessions.

/seriously, 2 minutes of tickling and I'd admit to being the unabomber

You've just made some police officer needing to close out cases a happy person.

"Miss Diminutive appears to have been the Zodiac killer, sir.  We have a confession."

LordJiro: iheartscotch: This sounds like a little from column A and a little from column B. I imagine she got a little wild. For Fark's sake; she's got tats at 17. Then there's this whole other situation. I could see where, if she was raped; she'd want to hurt herself, hince, the tattoos.

On the other hand; her parents could have found out that she participated in a sex act know as "the Ghostbusters" and she said rape so she wouldn't be grounded till judgement day.

/ I don't know which is right; and neither will anyone else, this side of the afterlife

// my sympathies to the family

After all, people making false accusations of rape are TOTALLY gonna kill themselves over it!

Bullshiat we don't know which is right. The girl made a poor choice to get drunk (particularly at that age). But that is irrelevant. The men who raped her are, 100%, at fault for raping her.

She killed herself because of the bullying. That isn't proof either way.

I'm not saying she made false allegations; I'm saying that there are legitimate alternative theories. Possibly compelling enough that the prosecutor felt that they couldn't get a conviction. Maybe they can't prove that the suspects were involved.

I agree, the persons responsible should face prison time. For the bullying and the child porn those are the charges that can be proved.

The prosecutor would have a tough time selling rape without a victim to testify. Maybe they can get one with the parent's testemony; but, that would probably count as hearsay.

It's beyond the time when vigilantism should make a appearance...maybe 4 corpses hanging from trees would make rapists and bullies have second thoughts

Pictures taken of the rape of an underage girl and redistributed by the accusers but the police found there was insufficient evidence to lay charges?

I suspect there's a lot to this story that's not being shared by the article, there.  My money is on "the pictures didn't actually depict the crime and the parent is just trying to mitigate their own guilt over not responding to bullying by making shiat up" at minimum.

J. Frank Parnell: Just forget about the rape altogether. No one should be harassed so relentlessly by a bunch of ignorant sadists about anything. Nothing makes it ok.

Profoundly sick society we live in.

I know in a lot of cases it is not possible to retaliate, but the way we've set up our "no bullying policies" very often leaves people defenseless -- they literally cannot fight back.

I got bullied a lot when I was young (I was ahead age-wise in class and always the smallest guy), at the beginning of the ole "Bullies are just insecure people, you just need to learn how to deal with them!" phase in the educational system.  Fortunately, I took my grandfather's advice and publicly beat the hell out of one of them before the "You get suspended from school for defending yourself" rules went into effect.  And surprise: no more bullying.  Wish I would have done it a few years earlier.

On the plus side, most of the bullies actually grew up, and it's not so surprising when you talk to them as adults and learn that they almost all had horribly awful parents.

BarkingUnicorn: Almost Everybody Poops: miss diminutive: "An investigation into an earlier sexual assault was completed, and in consultation with the Crown, there was insufficient evidence to lay charges," MacRae said.

So there's apparently picture evidence of the crime being distributed by the offenders and the Crown doesn't have enough evidence to charge them?

Also, maybe I'm already out of touch with today's youth, but who bullies a girl who's been a victim of rape? Seriously? I know I did some pretty hurtful things in my biatchy teenage days, but something like this would have never crossed my mind. I honestly don't understand.

Anyway, my heart breaks for this girl.

Seriously, this.

It appears to be a lack of empathy and stigma on part of law enforcement.  But this shiat should not stand.

I wish a thousand butt-hole surfers to penetrate the rapists asses while covered in knives and arugula.

WTF did LE do wrong?  Do you seriously expect them to waterboard confessions out of four boys just because a girl accused them?  WTF is wrong with you people?

I'm assuming (hoping) they're all drunk.

Jim_Callahan: Pictures taken of the rape of an underage girl and redistributed by the accusers but the police found there was insufficient evidence to lay charges?

I suspect there's a lot to this story that's not being shared by the article, there.  My money is on "the pictures didn't actually depict the crime and the parent is just trying to mitigate their own guilt over not responding to bullying by making shiat up" at minimum.

Depends where you live.  My gut is that you are probably correct, but there are places where depending on the people involved, the girl (specifically on rape) is going to get stonewalled and encourage to "re-remember" what happened.

But, yes, as it stands, the story does sound rather odd.

okay... 17 year old with tats...  what's up with that?

BarkingUnicorn: Fallout Boy: Alright, I'll be the first to ask:

Was it rape-rape?

/Hell, please

It was rape-rape-rape-rape if all four boys did it.  And we know they did, for certain, because every rape victim and everyone who's ever known a rape victim tells us so.

Rapists are scum.  Rape vigilantes are animals.

What if a boy took turn twice?

These are the thoughts that keep me up at night. And out of normal society.

iheartscotch: LordJiro: iheartscotch: 

I'm not saying she made false allegations; I'm saying that there are legitimate alternative theories. Possibly compelling enough that the prosecutor felt that they couldn't get a conviction. Maybe they can't prove that the suspects were involved.


That's an easy one -- it's very hard to deal with suicide cases in court, because there are almost always comorbidity with other things that can be drummed up as a defense.  A history of depression or any depression or anxiety medication can be used to show instability that "decreases the likelihood" that a particular event was the direct cause of the suicide (even if the comorbid systems were caused by the direct event!).

Got to go through this with a family member who got hurt in an industrial accident.  It wasn't that anyone actually disagreed that his being, for all intents and purposes, essentially ruined for life was due to the accident, but because he had taken anti-depressants before, there was a "pre-existing condition" which diminished the responsibility of the business for the consequences of the accident.

BarkingUnicorn: Almost Everybody Poops: miss diminutive: "An investigation into an earlier sexual assault was completed, and in consultation with the Crown, there was insufficient evidence to lay charges," MacRae said.

So there's apparently picture evidence of the crime being distributed by the offenders and the Crown doesn't have enough evidence to charge them?

Also, maybe I'm already out of touch with today's youth, but who bullies a girl who's been a victim of rape? Seriously? I know I did some pretty hurtful things in my biatchy teenage days, but something like this would have never crossed my mind. I honestly don't understand.

Anyway, my heart breaks for this girl.

Seriously, this.

It appears to be a lack of empathy and stigma on part of law enforcement.  But this shiat should not stand.

I wish a thousand butt-hole surfers to penetrate the rapists asses while covered in knives and arugula.

WTF did LE do wrong?  Do you seriously expect them to waterboard confessions out of four boys just because a girl accused them?  WTF is wrong with you people?

I would assume the PHOTOS THEY TOOK WHILE RAPING HER would be enough evidence, but that's just me.

Almost Everybody Poops: BarkingUnicorn: Almost Everybody Poops: miss diminutive: "An investigation into an earlier sexual assault was completed, and in consultation with the Crown, there was insufficient evidence to lay charges," MacRae said.

So there's apparently picture evidence of the crime being distributed by the offenders and the Crown doesn't have enough evidence to charge them?

Also, maybe I'm already out of touch with today's youth, but who bullies a girl who's been a victim of rape? Seriously? I know I did some pretty hurtful things in my biatchy teenage days, but something like this would have never crossed my mind. I honestly don't understand.

Anyway, my heart breaks for this girl.

Seriously, this.

It appears to be a lack of empathy and stigma on part of law enforcement.  But this shiat should not stand.

I wish a thousand butt-hole surfers to penetrate the rapists asses while covered in knives and arugula.

WTF did LE do wrong?  Do you seriously expect them to waterboard confessions out of four boys just because a girl accused them?  WTF is wrong with you people?

I would assume the PHOTOS THEY TOOK WHILE RAPING HER would be enough evidence, but that's just me.

Have you seen the photos?

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Almost Everybody Poops: BarkingUnicorn: Almost Everybody Poops: miss diminutive: "An investigation into an earlier sexual assault was completed, and in consultation with the Crown, there was insufficient evidence to lay charges," MacRae said.

So there's apparently picture evidence of the crime being distributed by the offenders and the Crown doesn't have enough evidence to charge them?

Also, maybe I'm already out of touch with today's youth, but who bullies a girl who's been a victim of rape? Seriously? I know I did some pretty hurtful things in my biatchy teenage days, but something like this would have never crossed my mind. I honestly don't understand.

Anyway, my heart breaks for this girl.

Seriously, this.

It appears to be a lack of empathy and stigma on part of law enforcement.  But this shiat should not stand.

I wish a thousand butt-hole surfers to penetrate the rapists asses while covered in knives and arugula.

WTF did LE do wrong?  Do you seriously expect them to waterboard confessions out of four boys just because a girl accused them?  WTF is wrong with you people?

I would assume the PHOTOS THEY TOOK WHILE RAPING HER would be enough evidence, but that's just me.

Have you seen the photos?

Of course not, I'm going on what TFA said: "One of those boys took a photo of her being raped and decided it would be fun to distribute the photo to everyone in Rehtaeh's school and community where it quickly went viral".

FitzShivering: iheartscotch: LordJiro: iheartscotch: 

I'm not saying she made false allegations; I'm saying that there are legitimate alternative theories. Possibly compelling enough that the prosecutor felt that they couldn't get a conviction. Maybe they can't prove that the suspects were involved.


That's an easy one -- it's very hard to deal with suicide cases in court, because there are almost always comorbidity with other things that can be drummed up as a defense.  A history of depression or any depression or anxiety medication can be used to show instability that "decreases the likelihood" that a particular event was the direct cause of the suicide (even if the comorbid systems were caused by the direct event!).

Got to go through this with a family member who got hurt in an industrial accident.  It wasn't that anyone actually disagreed that his being, for all intents and purposes, essentially ruined for life was due to the accident, but because he had taken anti-depressants before, there was a "pre-existing condition" which diminished the responsibility of the business for the consequences of the accident.

Indeed.

If she was bi-polar, for example, or had a mental issue; the suspects could argue that any act(s) was/were consensual in nature and she flipped out after her parents found out, and she can't deny that because, she's dead.

Forget the rape, get 'em on the bullying and the porn charges. Those won't have any mitigating factors; and one of them might flip on the others and testify about the rape(s).

/ thems the breaks when you have a functioning legal system; you can't just hang people

wildcardjack: okay... 17 year old with tats...  what's up with that?

PTSD is a helluva thing.

BarkingUnicorn: Almost Everybody Poops: BarkingUnicorn: Almost Everybody Poops: miss diminutive: "An investigation into an earlier sexual assault was completed, and in consultation with the Crown, there was insufficient evidence to lay charges," MacRae said.

So there's apparently picture evidence of the crime being distributed by the offenders and the Crown doesn't have enough evidence to charge them?

Also, maybe I'm already out of touch with today's youth, but who bullies a girl who's been a victim of rape? Seriously? I know I did some pretty hurtful things in my biatchy teenage days, but something like this would have never crossed my mind. I honestly don't understand.

Anyway, my heart breaks for this girl.

Seriously, this.

It appears to be a lack of empathy and stigma on part of law enforcement.  But this shiat should not stand.

I wish a thousand butt-hole surfers to penetrate the rapists asses while covered in knives and arugula.

WTF did LE do wrong?  Do you seriously expect them to waterboard confessions out of four boys just because a girl accused them?  WTF is wrong with you people?

I would assume the PHOTOS THEY TOOK WHILE RAPING HER would be enough evidence, but that's just me.

Well, apparently something was insufficient about those photos (another article says one was circulated, showing her "having sex with one of the boys").  Boy unidentifiable in pic.  Nobody would talk.  So we're back to waterboarding, right?

So because the boy was unidentifiable she wasn't raped?

BarkingUnicorn: FitzShivering: Jim_Callahan: Pictures taken of the rape of an underage girl and redistributed by the accusers but the police found there was insufficient evidence to lay charges?

I suspect there's a lot to this story that's not being shared by the article, there.  My money is on "the pictures didn't actually depict the crime and the parent is just trying to mitigate their own guilt over not responding to bullying by making shiat up" at minimum.

Depends where you live.  My gut is that you are probably correct, but there are places where depending on the people involved, the girl (specifically on rape) is going to get stonewalled and encourage to "re-remember" what happened.

But, yes, as it stands, the story does sound rather odd.

The pic that made the rounds was described in another article as one that "depicted the girl having sex with one of the boys."

IDK Canada's statutory rape or child porn laws.  In the U. S., that would be enough for both.  Seems the cops could have found out who was farking her and who took the pic.  Yet prosecutors decided not to pursue charges long before the girl killed herself.

You're probably right.  I haven't seen the pic (nor do I want to), so don't know what it actually contained and what they should have decided.  I imagine most of us are probably on the same page that if it showed something certain, the police should have done something, and if it didn't, then it is just a shiatty situation all around.

BarkingUnicorn: Almost Everybody Poops: BarkingUnicorn: Almost Everybody Poops: miss diminutive: "An investigation into an earlier sexual assault was completed, and in consultation with the Crown, there was insufficient evidence to lay charges," MacRae said.

So there's apparently picture evidence of the crime being distributed by the offenders and the Crown doesn't have enough evidence to charge them?

Also, maybe I'm already out of touch with today's youth, but who bullies a girl who's been a victim of rape? Seriously? I know I did some pretty hurtful things in my biatchy teenage days, but something like this would have never crossed my mind. I honestly don't understand.

Anyway, my heart breaks for this girl.

Seriously, this.

It appears to be a lack of empathy and stigma on part of law enforcement.  But this shiat should not stand.

I wish a thousand butt-hole surfers to penetrate the rapists asses while covered in knives and arugula.

WTF did LE do wrong?  Do you seriously expect them to waterboard confessions out of four boys just because a girl accused them?  WTF is wrong with you people?

I would assume the PHOTOS THEY TOOK WHILE RAPING HER would be enough evidence, but that's just me.

Well, apparently something was insufficient about those photos (another article says one was circulated, showing her "having sex with one of the boys").  Boy unidentifiable in pic.  Nobody would talk.  So we're back to waterboarding, right?

Also, do you have the article you referenced?  I couldn't find it in TFA.  Seriously interested.

It's especially awful when one so young commits suicide. To deal with a temporary problem with a permanent solution. Of course, the fog of depression doesn't give that kind of clarity. The signs can also be hard to distinguish from normal adolescent mood swings and teens can be secretive about what they get up to.  I just hate seeing lives cut short like this. It happens far too much.

iheartscotch: FitzShivering: iheartscotch: LordJiro: iheartscotch: 

If she was bi-polar, for example, or had a mental issue; the suspects could argue that any act(s) was/were consensual in nature and she flipped out after her parents found out, and she can't deny that because, she's dead.

Hell, I had my depression used against me before when reporting something (serious police misconduct locally).  Fortunately, it seems most people are increasingly becoming aware that a majority of people in America are on or have taken depression or anxiety medication at some point in their lives, and if you try to throw that baby out with the bathwater, it's unlikely anyone can ever attest to anything.

I have no idea what they would have done if I were bipolar -- probably accused me of being a witch and trying to see if I floated.

FitzShivering: BarkingUnicorn: FitzShivering: Jim_Callahan: Pictures taken of the rape of an underage girl and redistributed by the accusers but the police found there was insufficient evidence to lay charges?

I suspect there's a lot to this story that's not being shared by the article, there.  My money is on "the pictures didn't actually depict the crime and the parent is just trying to mitigate their own guilt over not responding to bullying by making shiat up" at minimum.

Depends where you live.  My gut is that you are probably correct, but there are places where depending on the people involved, the girl (specifically on rape) is going to get stonewalled and encourage to "re-remember" what happened.

But, yes, as it stands, the story does sound rather odd.

The pic that made the rounds was described in another article as one that "depicted the girl having sex with one of the boys."

IDK Canada's statutory rape or child porn laws.  In the U. S., that would be enough for both.  Seems the cops could have found out who was farking her and who took the pic.  Yet prosecutors decided not to pursue charges long before the girl killed herself.

You're probably right.  I haven't seen the pic (nor do I want to), so don't know what it actually contained and what they should have decided.  I imagine most of us are probably on the same page that if it showed something certain, the police should have done something, and if it didn't, then it is just a shiatty situation all around.

I think what's more disturbing is how the community treated her.  From what it sounds like the only consolation she had was from her family, and she was shunned pretty much everywhere else. I'm sure she had a few friends, but it seems apparent there was a culture of shame around her that she was subjected to constantly.

FitzShivering: iheartscotch: FitzShivering: iheartscotch: LordJiro: iheartscotch: 

If she was bi-polar, for example, or had a mental issue; the suspects could argue that any act(s) was/were consensual in nature and she flipped out after her parents found out, and she can't deny that because, she's dead.

Hell, I had my depression used against me before when reporting something (serious police misconduct locally).  Fortunately, it seems most people are increasingly becoming aware that a majority of people in America are on or have taken depression or anxiety medication at some point in their lives, and if you try to throw that baby out with the bathwater, it's unlikely anyone can ever attest to anything.

I have no idea what they would have done if I were bipolar -- probably accused me of being a witch and trying to see if I floated.

I dated someone in college who had bipolar disorder. Boy was that a roller coaster, I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

/well, maybe a few people.....

thisispete: It's especially awful when one so young commits suicide. To deal with a temporary problem with a permanent solution. Of course, the fog of depression doesn't give that kind of clarity. The signs can also be hard to distinguish from normal adolescent mood swings and teens can be secretive about what they get up to.  I just hate seeing lives cut short like this. It happens far too much.

100% agreement.  The awful part about depression is that suicide really does seem the most logical (or passionately correct, depending) action, and there isn't much anyone is going to say to sway that without professional help and/or therapy.

I really wish it were less stigmatized (I know it's way better from where it used to be, to be fair) for people to get help.   I went through a really rough period in my life that was really needless, that if I just hadn't been raised to think seeing a therapist was akin to murdering babies for fun, I probably would have gotten better incredibly quickly, versus it being a multi-year slog.

There can be many reasons the original rape case wasn't prosecuted.  Lack of evidence, conflicting stories, any number of reasons that the prosecutor decided that there wasn't enough to get a conviction.  Add to it these were minors involved and any punishment even if there was a conviction would have been muted.  As far as child pornography charges for the pictures, we don't know what the pictures depicted.   Her passed out with clothes, or with her private parts covered may not qualify as child pornography under the statute. Remember this is Canadian law and it operates under its own rules and interpretations that may or may not conform to your understanding of the law in your jurisdiction. Sexual assault type cases are very difficult even assuming you have physical evidence which we don't know was present in this case.  It is very difficult and unfair to nit pick at the decisions police and prosecutors made when we don't have all the evidence and investigation materials available.

Now what happened after the case didn't proceed just shows the cruelty and lack of social standards in society.  Thats not to say it directly led to her suicide as a unprosecuted sexual assault could have severely damaged her psyche as much as the bullying.  Add to it we don't know the parental relationships or any other support from friends and family and there could be numerous reasons she decided to end her life. Ultimately, nothing can be done to bring her back and it is difficult to say this outcome wouldn't have happened if one or two circumstances were different.  Suicides can and do happen for reason that only the person who commits knows.  Certainly her troubled life made it easier to choose this outcome and it is always sad to see it happen.

Lorelle: Popcorn Johnny: Sorry, you don't convict someone of rape based on the word of one person and a photo or two.

When you're so drunk that you're throwing up, it's clear that you are NOT in any condition to give consent to having sex, or to make any rational decision, for that matter.

While I don't condone taking advantage of someone that is wasted the booze thing doesn't hold much ground alone.

Drive a car? It's your fault. Get in an altercation? It's your fault, etc etc. Pretty much every scenario will end up with it being your fault because being inebriated doesn't give you immunity from your actions (except for "had sex"). Possibly rape, possibly a little too friendly with other party goers. She stayed silent until she was outed to her classmates as a slut, it's easy to toss around the rape word at that point as a last ditch effort to save face.

Barfmaker: Holy shiat...that's outrageously sad.

And yeah, here we are where Anonymous is now our real-life Batman equivalent.

That's the way I see it, too. Without knowing the facts, it seems there's a lot to be said by defenders of the law and defenders of victims. And in ways, they're both right. To come down too heavily on the side of the law in every case like this can, I think, perpetuate the idea that it was just a bunch of stupid boys being boys. To come down too heavily on the side of the victim can also lead to disregard for the law in pursuing what is "right".

I haven't been following this story, but it doesn't seem like there's really enough information given in the two articles I've read for me to come down on one side or the other. I'm glad it's not my call.

FitzShivering: I know in a lot of cases it is not possible to retaliate, but the way we've set up our "no bullying policies" very often leaves people defenseless -- they literally cannot fight back.

There are other ways to get individual bullies to leave you alone. And violence is not really an option for girls. For guys it's probably the most direct route, though.

But when groups get going it's a whole other dynamic. Social stigma, slander, and all that. Everyone feeding on the suffering they're causing someone. I really do think it's something learned from growing up in our current society. Adults are maybe just more subtle or discrete about it.

Almost Everybody Poops: FitzShivering: iheartscotch: FitzShivering: iheartscotch: LordJiro: iheartscotch: 

If she was bi-polar, for example, or had a mental issue; the suspects could argue that any act(s) was/were consensual in nature and she flipped out after her parents found out, and she can't deny that because, she's dead.

Hell, I had my depression used against me before when reporting something (serious police misconduct locally).  Fortunately, it seems most people are increasingly becoming aware that a majority of people in America are on or have taken depression or anxiety medication at some point in their lives, and if you try to throw that baby out with the bathwater, it's unlikely anyone can ever attest to anything.

I have no idea what they would have done if I were bipolar -- probably accused me of being a witch and trying to see if I floated.

I dated someone in college who had bipolar disorder. Boy was that a roller coaster, I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

/well, maybe a few people.....

As did I.  I always knew from my bipolar parent about mood swings, but I had no understanding of extreme bipolar disorder.  When your SO becomes convinced she has magical powers and can fly out of your window and a few days later is so depressed she physically won't leave her bed, it's a completely different level of problems.

/happy CSB, though -- she has herself under control now and is a pretty top notch professor nowadays, which is damned cool

puffy999: Half of the American population has committed a rape, per the modern definition.



/and an asshole

God damn it.

BarkingUnicorn: Almost Everybody Poops: BarkingUnicorn: Almost Everybody Poops: BarkingUnicorn: Almost Everybody Poops: miss diminutive: "An investigation into an earlier sexual assault was completed, and in consultation with the Crown, there was insufficient evidence to lay charges," MacRae said.

So there's apparently picture evidence of the crime being distributed by the offenders and the Crown doesn't have enough evidence to charge them?

Also, maybe I'm already out of touch with today's youth, but who bullies a girl who's been a victim of rape? Seriously? I know I did some pretty hurtful things in my biatchy teenage days, but something like this would have never crossed my mind. I honestly don't understand.

Anyway, my heart breaks for this girl.

Seriously, this.

It appears to be a lack of empathy and stigma on part of law enforcement.  But this shiat should not stand.

I wish a thousand butt-hole surfers to penetrate the rapists asses while covered in knives and arugula.

WTF did LE do wrong?  Do you seriously expect them to waterboard confessions out of four boys just because a girl accused them?  WTF is wrong with you people?

I would assume the PHOTOS THEY TOOK WHILE RAPING HER would be enough evidence, but that's just me.

Well, apparently something was insufficient about those photos (another article says one was circulated, showing her "having sex with one of the boys").  Boy unidentifiable in pic.  Nobody would talk.  So we're back to waterboarding, right?

So because the boy was unidentifiable she wasn't raped?

I have no idea if she was raped and neither do you.  IDK Canadian law.  I assume the RCMP and prosecutors do.  I don't see any reason to suspect they ignored Canadian law or failed to do their jobs.  So ask again, WTF did LE do wrong?

I can't say what they did wrong, and yes it possible it was consensual sex that was distributed which is why she felt ashamed.

I guess my real outrage is that a girl took her own life because she was harassed constantly.  Regardless of whether or not she was raped, there does seem to be some double-standard that when girls have sex they're "sluts" and when guys have sex their "players".  It's a social stigma that still exists, and it leads to these kind of results, which are tragic.

Again, my initial reaction against LE was obviously emotional, I just don't understand how this crap can still happen.

J. Frank Parnell: FitzShivering: I know in a lot of cases it is not possible to retaliate, but the way we've set up our "no bullying policies" very often leaves people defenseless -- they literally cannot fight back.

There are other ways to get individual bullies to leave you alone. And violence is not really an option for girls. For guys it's probably the most direct route, though.

But when groups get going it's a whole other dynamic. Social stigma, slander, and all that. Everyone feeding on the suffering they're causing someone. I really do think it's something learned from growing up in our current society. Adults are maybe just more subtle or discrete about it.

I don't disagree with you at all.  I feel especially awful for females suffering it.  They're also still most likely to get accused of making it all up.

FitzShivering: iheartscotch: FitzShivering: iheartscotch: LordJiro: iheartscotch: 

If she was bi-polar, for example, or had a mental issue; the suspects could argue that any act(s) was/were consensual in nature and she flipped out after her parents found out, and she can't deny that because, she's dead.

Hell, I had my depression used against me before when reporting something (serious police misconduct locally).  Fortunately, it seems most people are increasingly becoming aware that a majority of people in America are on or have taken depression or anxiety medication at some point in their lives, and if you try to throw that baby out with the bathwater, it's unlikely anyone can ever attest to anything.

I have no idea what they would have done if I were bipolar -- probably accused me of being a witch and trying to see if I floated.

Do you, by chance, weigh the same as a duck?

I agree; increasingly, it seems everybody but me is on drugs. I feel that is unfair.

Maybe this will change the way things are done in the legal system. And maybe I'll get hit by a train on a tuesday, the 29th of February; while unicycling on top of a pogo stick in a rainstorm.

FitzShivering: Almost Everybody Poops: FitzShivering: iheartscotch: FitzShivering: iheartscotch: LordJiro: iheartscotch: 

If she was bi-polar, for example, or had a mental issue; the suspects could argue that any act(s) was/were consensual in nature and she flipped out after her parents found out, and she can't deny that because, she's dead.

Hell, I had my depression used against me before when reporting something (serious police misconduct locally).  Fortunately, it seems most people are increasingly becoming aware that a majority of people in America are on or have taken depression or anxiety medication at some point in their lives, and if you try to throw that baby out with the bathwater, it's unlikely anyone can ever attest to anything.

I have no idea what they would have done if I were bipolar -- probably accused me of being a witch and trying to see if I floated.

I dated someone in college who had bipolar disorder. Boy was that a roller coaster, I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

/well, maybe a few people.....

As did I.  I always knew from my bipolar parent about mood swings, but I had no understanding of extreme bipolar disorder.  When your SO becomes convinced she has magical powers and can fly out of your window and a few days later is so depressed she physically won't leave her bed, it's a completely different level of problems.

/happy CSB, though -- she has herself under control now and is a pretty top notch professor nowadays, which is damned cool

Good to hear she came out okay.  Not sure when you dated her but for me it was in highschool/college.  I can actually remember similar instances about the "magical powers" stuff, just completely off the wall nonsense that you kinda had to roll with at the time.

/kinda found it sexy at the time.
//now, i be a bit smarter...

Almost Everybody Poops: BarkingUnicorn: Almost Everybody Poops: BarkingUnicorn: Almost Everybody Poops: BarkingUnicorn: Almost Everybody Poops: miss diminutive: "An investigation into an earlier sexual assault was completed, and in consultation with the Crown, there was insufficient evidence to lay charges," MacRae said.

So there's apparently picture evidence of the crime being distributed by the offenders and the Crown doesn't have enough evidence to charge them?

Also, maybe I'm already out of touch with today's youth, but who bullies a girl who's been a victim of rape? Seriously? I know I did some pretty hurtful things in my biatchy teenage days, but something like this would have never crossed my mind. I honestly don't understand.

Anyway, my heart breaks for this girl.

Seriously, this.

It appears to be a lack of empathy and stigma on part of law enforcement.  But this shiat should not stand.

I wish a thousand butt-hole surfers to penetrate the rapists asses while covered in knives and arugula.

WTF did LE do wrong?  Do you seriously expect them to waterboard confessions out of four boys just because a girl accused them?  WTF is wrong with you people?

I would assume the PHOTOS THEY TOOK WHILE RAPING HER would be enough evidence, but that's just me.

Well, apparently something was insufficient about those photos (another article says one was circulated, showing her "having sex with one of the boys").  Boy unidentifiable in pic.  Nobody would talk.  So we're back to waterboarding, right?

So because the boy was unidentifiable she wasn't raped?

I have no idea if she was raped and neither do you.  IDK Canadian law.  I assume the RCMP and prosecutors do.  I don't see any reason to suspect they ignored Canadian law or failed to do their jobs.  So ask again, WTF did LE do wrong?

I can't say what they did wrong, and yes it possible it was consensual sex that was distributed which is why she felt ashamed.

I guess my real outrage is that a girl took her own life because she was harassed ...

To be fair, and specifically not about this exact case because I don't know enough about it to say anything and highly doubt it is applicable here, but if one has consensual sex, takes photos and then tries to ruin other peoples' lives over it, I think a certain amount of harassment is likely justified, at least insofar as we tolerate harassment of those who are guilty of crimes.  You can't just have a one-way protection (anyone can accuse and do what they wish with no consequence).  A certain amount of societal shaming is expected any time someone does something "wrong."

Bontesla: I'm rooting for the Anonymous.

Yeah, because if anyone stands for restrictions on internet freedom, it's that bunch of losers

Almost Everybody Poops:
Good to hear she came out okay.  Not sure when you dated her but for me it was in highschool/college.  I can actually remember similar instances about the "magical powers" stuff, just completely off the wall nonsense that you kinda had to roll with at the time.

/kinda found it sexy at the time.
//now, i be a bit smarter...

College, and I thought it was sexy, too -- granted, she was incredibly damned hot, and given I'm incredibly damned not, part of the reason we were together was likely the dynamic we had.

But, I learned that the 'ole maxims of:

"Don't stick your dick in crazy."
"You can't save everyone."

Exist because they contain a whole, whole lot of wisdom.

Damned adults and their knowing things I should have listened to in my early twenties.

As I learned while learning about the Amanda Todd case, the real cause of these types of suicides is slut-shaming. What kind of sick society calls a rape victim a slut? One which still views sex as something only bad girls enjoy.
Interesting article on it here: http://fakepretty.com/2012/10/on-the-posthumous-slut-shaming-of-amand a -todd/

MBK: That's what rape culture is about, when you blame the victim for being a victim instead of blaming the violators of raping.

F*ck you.

In view of the content of the first of those sentences, how appropriate do you think it was to use a metaphor of sexual assault in the second. That, friend, is your rape culture, right there.

slayer199: Nice job investigating RCMP.  They had photographic evidence...but somehow the RCMP couldn't prosecute these farks.

I have not seen the photograph and I do not wish to see the photograph, but is it not possible that a photograph might show an offence without clearly identifying the offender? Furthermore, a photograph might show that a particular act took place, but not whether it was consensual, leaving the case as one person's word against another. In most rape trials, I gather, it's consent that's at issue, not the act itself.

namatad: Can we STOP CALLING IT ALLEGED?
It was not an alleged rape. it was a RAPE.
She reported that she was raped to the police.
Period.

The people who raped her would best be called unconvicted rapists.
By calling it alleged, we continue to blame the victim apply the legal standards which have defined civilisation for centuries.

It's unfortunate, but even in rape we can't allow the word of one person to circumvent due process. Calling people "unconvicted rapists" solely on another person's word is a very, very slippery slope.

There isn't a hint of victim blaming to this.

Having worked amongst rape / DV victims and their prosecutors, I can say that in the US, prosecutors hate rape or DV cases.  Hate them.  They'll do everything they can to find an excuse to not bring the trial to court.  Most I've spoken to won't even risk going to court unless they are absolutely sure of a conviction, which in the case of a rape or domestic violence is practically never guaranteed.  Society tells women to report rapes to anyone who will listen but the court system says (and rightly so if conviction numbers are an indication) "Yeah, despite all of this really incriminating evidence and your obvious distress, there probably isn't enough to sway a jury".  Because a few people on that jury, doesn't matter the gender or proclivities of the jurists, are thinking "what did that person do to get themselves raped?".  Prosecutors are judged by convictions, after all.

As bad as it is for women, it's worse for men.

Maybe Canadian lawyers and judges and juries are just as sucky as their American counterparts.

Gyrfalcon: If you're underage, you cannot consent. If you're underage, you cannot consent. Oh, and if you're underage, you cannot consent. But in case there was any question, there are other laws that say if you're underage, you cannot consent.

Does that apply to underage boys as well?

namatad: Can we STOP CALLING IT ALLEGED?
It was not an alleged rape. it was a RAPE.
She reported that she was raped to the police.
Period.

The people who raped her would best be called unconvicted rapists.
By calling it alleged, we continue to blame the victim.

The reason they call it alleged is because the scum was never convicted. They weren't even tried. It's messed up, but "alleged" is always used by media so they can't get sued.

SpikeStrip: [thisthreadi *punches self*

Why do you keep punching yourself?

Lsherm: A photo is an instant in time, so even if it showed her having sex with someone, it's possible there wasn't any way to deduce consent or not from it. Since it sounds like the attackers were also underage, that further complicates matters.

She was drunk, and there are pictures of her throwing up, so she couldn't consent. Plus she was underage, so she couldn't consent. Plus the attackers took and distributed pictures, both of which are illegal. The police really messed this one up, either through stupidity or lack of sympathy.

doglover: My theory is this girl had a history of mental issues, was thus tolerated not welcomed, got assaulted while drunk because nobody cared(2 photos of drunk not assault), and was shamed into leaving, mental issues lead to suicide in new town.

Did you just post that getting assaulted while drunk is not getting assaulted? The fact that she was drunk automatically makes it assault.

This is supported by totally healthy people don't usually an hero even when traumatized, friends don't let rapists keep teeth, and even Canadian cops are good enough to arrest you with photos of rape in your phone. All anecdotal, but that's been my experience in life this far.

The bolded part isn't necessarily true. Ever heard of rape culture?

You are Borg: I just got home from work and on my drive home I listened to an interview with the mother about everything that happened from day one. I can't even begin to imagine how she feels, or how her daughter felt. Ugh, breaks my heart, especially hearing that only a few of her friends supported her, the rest of them jumped on the slut train.

That was an unfortunate way to phrase that.

ZoSo_the_Crowe: FTA: "Rape culture"

Hoo boy there's a great trolling buzzword.

Go be stupid somewhere else.

BarkingUnicorn: WTF did LE do wrong? Do you seriously expect them to waterboard confessions out of four boys just because a girl accused them?

No, but they could have investigated. The attackers are guilty of at least three different crimes here, and the police did nothing.

Popcorn Johnny: Sorry, you don't convict someone of rape based on the word of one person and a photo or two.

Please tell me you're not a lawyer....

BarkingUnicorn: Lady Indica: How droll, all the guys I have labeled as rape defenders are here on this thread, and I can see they're defending as others quote 'em.

Glad I tagged 'em correctly.

There's a difference  between defending rape and defending due process of law.

Due process? I thought that we had to act on emotions. If one life could be spared by passing ludicrously ineffective laws; we should pass those laws.

/ I agree; we say suspect or the accused until they are proved to be guilty, then we can stick a fork in 'em all we want

orbister: namatad: Can we STOP CALLING IT ALLEGED?
It was not an alleged rape. it was a RAPE.
She reported that she was raped to the police.
Period.

The people who raped her would best be called unconvicted rapists.
By calling it alleged, we continue to blame the victim apply the legal standards which have defined civilisation for centuries.

It's unfortunate, but even in rape we can't allow the word of one person to circumvent due process. Calling people "unconvicted rapists" solely on another person's word is a very, very slippery slope.

There isn't a hint of victim blaming to this.

Clearly calling people unconvicted anything doesn't make sense.  In that case, all people who report a rape would be "unconvicted false report filers."

FitzShivering: Almost Everybody Poops:
Good to hear she came out okay.  Not sure when you dated her but for me it was in highschool/college.  I can actually remember similar instances about the "magical powers" stuff, just completely off the wall nonsense that you kinda had to roll with at the time.

/kinda found it sexy at the time.
//now, i be a bit smarter...

College, and I thought it was sexy, too -- granted, she was incredibly damned hot, and given I'm incredibly damned not, part of the reason we were together was likely the dynamic we had.

But, I learned that the 'ole maxims of:

"Don't stick your dick in crazy."
"You can't save everyone."

Exist because they contain a whole, whole lot of wisdom.

Damned adults and their knowing things I should have listened to in my early twenties.

That pretty much sums up my relationships with her.  I thought I could fix her, and she cheated on me with a meth-addict (thus becoming one herself).  Fun times!

Almost Everybody Poops: FitzShivering: Almost Everybody Poops:
Good to hear she came out okay.  Not sure when you dated her but for me it was in highschool/college.  I can actually remember similar instances about the "magical powers" stuff, just completely off the wall nonsense that you kinda had to roll with at the time.

/kinda found it sexy at the time.
//now, i be a bit smarter...

College, and I thought it was sexy, too -- granted, she was incredibly damned hot, and given I'm incredibly damned not, part of the reason we were together was likely the dynamic we had.

But, I learned that the 'ole maxims of:

"Don't stick your dick in crazy."
"You can't save everyone."

Exist because they contain a whole, whole lot of wisdom.

Damned adults and their knowing things I should have listened to in my early twenties.

That pretty much sums up my relationships with her.  I thought I could fix her, and she cheated on me with a meth-addict (thus becoming one herself).  Fun times!

Um.  We may have been dating the same girl.  That or you are her and you are farking with me.  :P

Did I get in before someone claims that....

THE MEN

ARE

THE REAL

VICTIMS

HERE

...?

Abacus9: She was drunk, and there are pictures of her throwing up, so she couldn't consent. Plus she was underage, so she couldn't consent.

I wonder how easy it would be to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the drunkenness came before the sex?

You are Borg: I just got home from work and on my drive home I listened to an interview with the mother about everything that happened from day one.  I can't even begin to imagine how she feels, or how her daughter felt. Ugh, breaks my heart, especially hearing that only a few of her friends supported her, the rest of them jumped on the slut train.

And who would be in a better position to make the "slut" vs "non-slut" call? Her friends that actually knew her or a pitchfork wielding internet mob?

msupf: Popcorn Johnny: Sorry, you don't convict someone of rape based on the word of one person and a photo or two.

so, if presented with the picture of a girl obviously inebriated or impaired, possibly displaying pain, being sexually violated, and testimony from that girl that it was not consensual, you'd immediately call bullshiat on her?

Dumbass

Have you even SEEN college porn these days?  You just described most dorm room videos.

BarkingUnicorn: There's the "age of consent" thing to consider in this case.  Then there's the "Romeo & Juliet" thing to consider:  it's not statutory rape if it's "young love" and both parties ages are within some arbitrary number of years of each other.  Then there's Canadian law to consider, and I have no clue what it is.

Google suggests that the age of consent in Canada is 16, with an exemption for 14 and 15 year olds. So if she and the person with whom she had sex were both 15, age of consent would not appear to be an issue, though consent would.

However ... a young woman in great distress has killed herself. Whatever the law, whatever the actions, whoever the actors, that distress was real, and terribly, terribly sad.

Abacus9: No, but they could have investigated. The attackers are guilty of at least three different crimes here, and the police did nothing.

Look, there's a lot of this going on in this thread. You have no clue what the police did or did not do. It's possible they dropped the ball. It's also possible that there wasn't enough evidence to arrest anyone. Nobody here has seen the pictures. Nobody here has even seen a first-hand account of the events.

Given what little we do know, it seems extremely likely this girl was raped. We do know she was bullied afterwards. We know very little else.

But not one person in this thread knows how the cops handled the investigation, or how they reached their conclusions regarding arrest and prosecution. Anyone presuming they did something wrong, just because nobody with peripheral responsibility for this girl's death has been arrested, is spouting off purely from emotion.

As justified as those emotions may be, they are probably not a valid basis for prosecution under Canadian sexual crime laws.

The biggest problem here is the bullies, who made a bad situation worse on purpose and out of spite. If you need somewhere to direct your anger, try focusing on them.

Hanged.

Sweaty Dynamite: You are Borg: I just got home from work and on my drive home I listened to an interview with the mother about everything that happened from day one.  I can't even begin to imagine how she feels, or how her daughter felt. Ugh, breaks my heart, especially hearing that only a few of her friends supported her, the rest of them jumped on the slut train.

And who would be in a better position to make the "slut" vs "non-slut" call? Her friends that actually knew her or a pitchfork wielding internet mob?

At any rate Rehtaeh Parsons lived and died as a floozy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cmHETvyk6eA#

Who Needs Rape Culture?

I don't like the "too drunk to make a choice" line of prosicution. It sounds to much like the morning after "wtf did I do?" Fix ... if a rational choice can't be made while drunk could the defense use this as well? How about a drunken theft? Or can you make a legal descision if really really tired? No means no and yes means no if I change my mind later. That being said I feel for the young lady and our teenage years are a hell of a crucible and no one escapes unscathed.

NewportBarGuy: I hope the assholes die of ass cancer, slowly.

Passing pictures of her being raped around is a felony, her suicide should invoke the felony murder rule.

orbister: Abacus9: She was drunk, and there are pictures of her throwing up, so she couldn't consent. Plus she was underage, so she couldn't consent.

I wonder how easy it would be to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the drunkenness came before the sex?

Pretty easy these days, unless the pictures were taken with an old-fashioned Polaroid camera, which I doubt.

I'd like to know what some people would regard as sufficient evidence before you'd accept a girl's claim of being raped?

In general there is not going to be a room full of witnesses, video recordings or the like. It mostly only ever comes down to her word vs his. Judging by some of the responses here, her word carries less value than that of the alleged rapist/s.

cornfedokie: I don't like the "too drunk to make a choice" line of prosicution. It sounds to much like the morning after "wtf did I do?" Fix ... if a rational choice can't be made while drunk could the defense use this as well? How about a drunken theft?

A drunken theft is different because you may be drunk but it's during the commission of a crime, which there is no excuse for. In the case of rape, the victim isn't committing a crime.

My sympathies go out to her family.

doglover: You think bullying in a western school is bad, try the bullying you get when you have to spend all day every day in the same classroom with the same kids for three years.

Make it five years, and you've described my elementary school experience.

right on fark mods...

another thread full of of misogynist hate you are either too lazy to deal with or too  stupid to understand.

rather than wade through more bullshiat to point out single instances, i'll let the brain trust that is the FARKMOD ELITE BACK PATTING CLUB MEMBERS .TM try and wade through...

good luck dumbasses.

Nidiot: I'd like to know what some people would regard as sufficient evidence before you'd accept a girl's claim of being raped?

Most of Fark's pro-rape contingent wouldn't accept it if the guy held a national press conference to announce that he can't get it up unless there's rape involved. They don't believe that there's even such a thing as rape (and are trolls - mostly the troll thing, really).

Nidiot: It mostly only ever comes down to her word vs his.

I accuse you of raping a goat. How much evidence should I have to present before someone takes my word over yours over your alleged guilt?

/  Innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.
//  As for how much evidence, beyond reasonable doubt is the standard.

Abacus9: cornfedokie: I don't like the "too drunk to make a choice" line of prosicution. It sounds to much like the morning after "wtf did I do?" Fix ... if a rational choice can't be made while drunk could the defense use this as well? How about a drunken theft?

A drunken theft is different because you may be drunk but it's during the commission of a crime, which there is no excuse for. In the case of rape, the victim isn't committing a crime.

Never once said the victim was committing a crime but my question is better put this way. If the prosicution can claim the lady was not able to make a rational choice. So despite her not saying no it was still rape. Could the defense use the accused's drunken state to claim they could not rationally take her state into account if she never made a detering statement?

doglover: Back in the day, the initial RCMP investigation would have been 4 homicides of teenage boys and no one would have seen anything.

You mean the same "day" in which a "good Christian" society regularly humiliated women for being raped?  Hell, those boys would've been even bigger heroes.

Nidiot: It mostly only ever comes down to her word vs his. Judging by some of the responses here, her word carries less value than that of the alleged rapist/s.

Why should it carry more? How do you decide in general whose word in a court of law is going to be worth more than someone else's?

It's a fundamental principle of Scots law that corroboration is needed, and cases of one person's word against another's can't proceed. Corroboration, by the way, can be forensic, photographs or other evidence; it doesn't have to be another witness.

As a father of two little girls, I can say without a doubt, that if this was my little girl, I would be in jail now. And all four of those boys would be maimed for life. Death would be too easy for these monsters.

What would be hard would be figuring out how to live without their cock and balls.

I'm not being an ITG here. If someone put my daughter through what these monsters did, then God help them, because they would not get any mercy from me.

Fluorescent Testicle: Most of Fark's pro-rape contingent

Please give me a few instances of anyone saying on Fark that they think rape is a good thing. "You're gonna get raped" fantasies over sexual violence in prison don't count.

cornfedokie: Abacus9: cornfedokie: I don't like the "too drunk to make a choice" line of prosicution. It sounds to much like the morning after "wtf did I do?" Fix ... if a rational choice can't be made while drunk could the defense use this as well? How about a drunken theft?

A drunken theft is different because you may be drunk but it's during the commission of a crime, which there is no excuse for. In the case of rape, the victim isn't committing a crime.

Never once said the victim was committing a crime but my question is better put this way. If the prosicution can claim the lady was not able to make a rational choice. So despite her not saying no it was still rape. Could the defense use the accused's drunken state to claim they could not rationally take her state into account if she never made a detering statement?

This would be fine if the default were yes.  But it's not.  The default is no, and she doesn't need to say it.  Hell, the victim would have a far better case to say that her "Yes" wouldn't count because she was drunk.

cornfedokie: Abacus9: cornfedokie: I don't like the "too drunk to make a choice" line of prosicution. It sounds to much like the morning after "wtf did I do?" Fix ... if a rational choice can't be made while drunk could the defense use this as well? How about a drunken theft?

A drunken theft is different because you may be drunk but it's during the commission of a crime, which there is no excuse for. In the case of rape, the victim isn't committing a crime.

Never once said the victim was committing a crime but my question is better put this way. If the prosicution can claim the lady was not able to make a rational choice. So despite her not saying no it was still rape. Could the defense use the accused's drunken state to claim they could not rationally take her state into account if she never made a detering statement?

If the other party is drunk then they can't consent. That said... Canada's laws don't look like they cover the 'intoxicated and can't consent' side of it.

Canada's Criminal Code has no specific "rape" provision. Instead, it defines assault and provides for a specific punishment for "sexual assault". In defining "assault", the Code includes physical contact and threats. The provision reads:

266(3) For the purposes of this section, no consent is obtained where the complainant submits or does not resist by reason of

(a) the application of force to the complainant or to a person other than the complainant;

(b) threats or fear of the application of force to the complainant or to a person other than the complainant;

(c) fraud; or

(d) the exercise of authority.

Consent gets even more complicated when alcohol and drugs are involved in that it becomes a question of whether the victim had the capacity to consent. Again, the court will look at the totality of the evidence and decide.

So it's possible the prosecutor went with the safe option and tried to not argue on the basis of her being intoxicated as a form of non-consent.

/Hope the people who did it die in a fire, however.

Nidiot: I'd like to know what some people would regard as sufficient evidence before you'd accept a girl's claim of being raped?

In general there is not going to be a room full of witnesses, video recordings or the like. It mostly only ever comes down to her word vs his. Judging by some of the responses here, her word carries less value than that of the alleged rapist/s.

Lady Justice is most often depicted with a set of scales typically suspended from her right hand, upon which she measures the strengths of a case's support and opposition. She is also often seen carrying a double-edged sword in her left hand, symbolizing the power of Reason and Justice, which may be wielded either for or against any party.

It's an imperfect system, for sure. But it beats every alternative I can think of, short of unfalsifiable mind-reading.

100 Watt Walrus: Look, there's a lot of this going on in this thread. You have no clue what the police did or did not do. It's possible they dropped the ball. It's also possible that there wasn't enough evidence to arrest anyone.

The pictures should be evidence enough because: She's underage, and drunk. Two different ways she can't legally consent. Plus, distributing the photos is also a crime.

Well, shiat. There are no words.

/stop this effing planet, I want to get off

MooseUpNorth: Nidiot: It mostly only ever comes down to her word vs his.

I accuse you of raping a goat. How much evidence should I have to present before someone takes my word over yours over your alleged guilt?

Pictures would be good evidence.

Lsherm: [img42.imageshack.us image 620x348]

Still can't look at that picture without tearing up.

Is that her??

Is her name Rita or Reytayah?

BarkingUnicorn: 
So it's no different from U. S. incapacitated-consent jurisprudence.

Possibly not? I don't have much knowledge of the US legal system. I was just quoting some stuff from a Canadian site talking about it.

/Aussie