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(Yahoo)   U.S. Employers have more job openings than at any other time in nearly five years, they are in no hurry to fill them. We're living in a fear-based environment right now, thanks Obama   (finance.yahoo.com) divider line 293
    More: Sad, United States, job opening, staffing firm, environmentalisms, Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago  
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3167 clicks; posted to Business » on 10 Apr 2013 at 4:11 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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MFK
2013-04-10 10:21:34 AM
teeny:
Best bedtime story evar. It makes me smile to think of my former douchebag employer weathering that shiatstorm.

CSB: Mine couldn't weather it. During the recession, I was made to eat such an enormous pile of shiat. I was managing a department of four people that was responsible for bringing in as much revenue as the national and retail sales teams combined. Since my department wasn't flashy or sexy, we were at the bottom of corporate's radar so when layoffs came in '09, my dept got hit especially hard since one person represented a quarter of the team. Well, we lost 2 and I had to pick up the slack for 2 missing members. Then one more got laid off in the next round and then it was me and one sales rep responsible for pulling in as much revenue as two dozen people from other departments. When that person got fed up with it and quit, the bosses pulled me aside and said "We're not hiring a replacement. We've decided that you are going to do all the work yourself and no, we're not adjusting your revenue goals to reflect the loss of four other people. We're going to require that you do your job, their jobs and do it for $20,000 less than when you started. And if you don't like it, there's the door."

Of course i looked for other work but in 2010, there were so many unemployed people that employers were having a field day - requiring senior level experience but offering entry level wages which were still worse than what i was making with the pay cut. So for three years I ate that shiat sandwich every day, the stress landed me in the hospital twice - once with shingles which cost me the use of my eye permanantly. Finally, when things started to pick up, I asked for a raise. Not a lot, just to bring myself back to what I was making in 2008 considering i was doing the work of 5 people and actually pulling it off. Their response was this: "we hired this girl. She's agreed to work for $25K/yr (the amount of raise I asked for), she's not going to work for you, she's going to... fill in for you if you need a day off or want to take a vacation so if you could just teach her everything you know, that'd be great".

Obviously, I was being asked to train my replacement. So I started looking for work more aggressively while taking my time teaching this girl how to replace me. So I found a new job for slightly less money, but soooo much better for me and decided to use some of my "use it or lose it" vacation time and fark off for a week or so before giving my notice. So i go in on a monday to do one more round of production and give my notice at the end of the day to discover that the girl I had spent three months passing all of my 10 years of institutional knowledge to had just quit that friday since the workload was stupid crazy.

With a huge smile on my face, I go into the VP's office to give my 2 weeks' notice and they begged me to stay on a few more months to train another person. I gave them 2 weeks. They hired someone with zero sales experience 3 days before I left and I just kind of showed her where stuff was and said that she'd have to figure it out since I didn't really care.

With my departure, the company realized that they had lost every person with any institutional knowledge on how to run that department and incoming revenues plummeted. By being stingy on $20K they had essentially taken a million dollars in annual revenues that I was bringing in by myself and flushed it down the toilet.

Three months later, The Boston Phoenix went out of business for good.
 
2013-04-10 10:30:47 AM

EngineerAU: I for one look forward to hearing about these guys only being able to find work as managers of the grounds crew at a low end public golf course.


This is already happening.
My old bossy boss, from whose glorious reign at a national publican I departed, has since been sent packing back across the Ohio River into a menial downmarket role after having been "laid off" as a managing editor. She's a copy editor now in podunk, NTTAWWT.

As Sun Tzu wrote: Wait long enough beside the river and you'll see the corpse of your enemy float past.
 
2013-04-10 10:33:48 AM
I swear, it's like you farksters live in a cartoon or something.

"Evil rich...(slurp)...gimme jerb...(herp)...I'll kill you and take your stuff...please hire me...(derp)"

Want to understand what's going on? Go out and start a small business. Small business owners are hurting bad and dont know what the future will bring. Meanwhile the applicants either suck, or have a sucky attitude.
 
2013-04-10 10:39:55 AM

MFK: Three months later, The Boston Phoenix went out of business for good.


That whole story is so horrible, I feel for you man and hope some day there is payback for those bastards.
 
2013-04-10 10:45:45 AM

Lawyers With Nukes: I swear, it's like you farksters live in a cartoon or something.

"Evil rich...(slurp)...gimme jerb...(herp)...I'll kill you and take your stuff...please hire me...(derp)"

Want to understand what's going on? Go out and start a small business. Small business owners are hurting bad and dont know what the future will bring. Meanwhile the applicants either suck, or have a sucky attitude.


Pretend small business owner detected.
 
2013-04-10 10:46:37 AM

Lawyers With Nukes: I swear, it's like you farksters live in a cartoon or something.

"Evil rich...(slurp)...gimme jerb...(herp)...I'll kill you and take your stuff...please hire me...(derp)"

Want to understand what's going on? Go out and start a small business. Small business owners are hurting bad and dont know what the future will bring. Meanwhile the applicants either suck, or have a sucky attitude.


Well, Gee...It's too bad that small business' target demographic for sales is both, broke and overworked.
No money and no time.

/So..vote republican?
 
2013-04-10 10:55:56 AM
Or you could get your Class A license and become a truck driver!
That way, you could never be home while living in a truck and driving/working 10 hours a day (the federal limit, which everyone drives/works up to), and get two days off every two weeks.
You'll earn $40K per year, which is about $26,800 netted after taxes.
Driving 70 hours per week, times 52 weeks, equals 3,640 hours working, divided into $40K, is about $11 bucks per hour.
To enjoy that princely renumeration, you'll need a perfect driving record and be able to pass drug and alcohol screening tests at any moment. You'll need to comply with DOT regulations continuously in the event of random inspections. You, as the driver, take responsibility for the condition of your truck, which you won't own, being a newbie. You'll eat out of a cooler if you're lucky and gain ten pounds per year eating road food. And your daily working conditions will involved driving in all traffic and road conditions, day and night, in all weather, everywhere. You'll be expected to remain accident free while maneuvering long trailers everywhere.

And you know what?
Your federal government will consider your job "Unskilled."
And all for eleven bucks per hour, not including benefits, if any, and before expenses that arise from living out on the road, with the plus of being away from your family constantly.
Trucks. Everything you buy arrives on trucks. Everything.

Nice economy you've got here, Americans.
 
2013-04-10 10:58:40 AM

Wooly Bully: MFK: Three months later, The Boston Phoenix went out of business for good.

That whole story is so horrible, I feel for you man and hope some day there is payback for those bastards.


Well. The newspaper biz is rapidly going the way of the buggy whip makers.
Even zombies know that.
In 2004 I walked away from a fairly secure gig. I just couldn't handle the amorality of the whole thing and the a-hole I would have had to become to fit in there.
 
2013-04-10 11:00:18 AM

Lawyers With Nukes: I swear, it's like you farksters live in a cartoon or something.

"Evil rich...(slurp)...gimme jerb...(herp)...I'll kill you and take your stuff...please hire me...(derp)"

Want to understand what's going on? Go out and start a small business. Small business owners are hurting bad and dont know what the future will bring. Meanwhile the applicants either suck, or have a sucky attitude.


With an attitude like that, it sounds like you're selling the wrong product in the wrong market.
Small business, indeed.
 
MFK
2013-04-10 11:04:22 AM

X-boxershorts: Lawyers With Nukes: I swear, it's like you farksters live in a cartoon or something.

"Evil rich...(slurp)...gimme jerb...(herp)...I'll kill you and take your stuff...please hire me...(derp)"

Want to understand what's going on? Go out and start a small business. Small business owners are hurting bad and dont know what the future will bring. Meanwhile the applicants either suck, or have a sucky attitude.

Well, Gee...It's too bad that small business' target demographic for sales is both, broke and overworked.
No money and no time.

/So..vote republican?


You know what small business needs to thrive? Customers.
Not tax breaks, not fewer regulations, but customers.

Unfortunately, nobody is getting paid enough to support a small business economy and the lack of taxes and regulations are making it easy for companies like big boxes to eat everyone's lunch, but even those guys are hurting because people are using the brick and mortar stores as "showrooms" and then they turn around and buy the same products from Amazon.com for $5 less because they don't have the overhead so they can undercut.

We've convinced ourselves that if a company grows so massive that they control everything it's because they are "successful" and not at all because they have bought politicians to rig the game for them. 100 years ago, we all knew monopolies were bad and took steps to prevent that sort of game rigging. 100 years later, we are showing that we have learned exactly nothing.
 
2013-04-10 11:06:19 AM

MFK: You know what small business needs to thrive? Customers.
Not tax breaks, not fewer regulations, but customers.


Ding ding ding. Aggregate demand has fallen off a cliff because the consumer class has no money to spend. The middle class is not overtaxed, they are underpaid.
 
2013-04-10 11:16:02 AM

maddogdelta: Clearly, there aren't enough tech workers in America.

There are job openings, there's high unemployment, but we need more h1b visas ?????


THIS!
 
2013-04-10 11:16:39 AM

MFK: X-boxershorts: Lawyers With Nukes: I swear, it's like you farksters live in a cartoon or something.

"Evil rich...(slurp)...gimme jerb...(herp)...I'll kill you and take your stuff...please hire me...(derp)"

Want to understand what's going on? Go out and start a small business. Small business owners are hurting bad and dont know what the future will bring. Meanwhile the applicants either suck, or have a sucky attitude.

Well, Gee...It's too bad that small business' target demographic for sales is both, broke and overworked.
No money and no time.

/So..vote republican?

You know what small business needs to thrive? Customers.
Not tax breaks, not fewer regulations, but customers.

Unfortunately, nobody is getting paid enough to support a small business economy and the lack of taxes and regulations are making it easy for companies like big boxes to eat everyone's lunch, but even those guys are hurting because people are using the brick and mortar stores as "showrooms" and then they turn around and buy the same products from Amazon.com for $5 less because they don't have the overhead so they can undercut.

We've convinced ourselves that if a company grows so massive that they control everything it's because they are "successful" and not at all because they have bought politicians to rig the game for them. 100 years ago, we all knew monopolies were bad and took steps to prevent that sort of game rigging. 100 years later, we are showing that we have learned exactly nothing.


How exactly did Amazon com "rig" the game 15 years ago when some U-W PERL programmers sat down and wrote a shopping cart engine from scratch?

I'm not saying Amazon isn't actively in the "bribe local governments" game now, particularly where their picking and shipping orgs are concerned.

But the original business was 100% start up with not all that much venture capital either.

They beat Best Buy, Wal-Mart and everyone else to the punch with regard to online sales, it even took them 5 or 6 years to show a profit, but once they worked out the bugs in their original shipping/fulfillment model look out, the worlds greatest catalog company.

Now you get to hate them. But for 10 yrs at least, they were every bit just a clever company solving problems and being rewarded for it.
 
2013-04-10 11:18:06 AM
Fear based economy? Oh, subby means employers are afraid to to hire because it might cut into they extra money they save by having 1 person do the work of 3.
 
2013-04-10 11:18:34 AM

Lando Lincoln: jaylectricity: If we're spending so much on our military, why do we have to pay our debts?

We don't. It's mostly a courtesy.


That and we don't want an economic catastrophe that would make the great depression feel like a hiccup.
 
2013-04-10 11:19:51 AM

FuturePastNow: I wonder how many jobs are unfilled because the terms offered are downright insulting.


Exactly this.

Really, an entry level position that requires several years experience?
When did a PC technician requires PC programming? (SQL, C#, etc.???)

Seems that they want a Jack of ALL Trades and master of ALL at the same time?
And what is the deal with all this certification BS.  Certs are the biggest scams ever conceived.
 
2013-04-10 11:22:51 AM

MFK: X-boxershorts: Lawyers With Nukes: I swear, it's like you farksters live in a cartoon or something.

"Evil rich...(slurp)...gimme jerb...(herp)...I'll kill you and take your stuff...please hire me...(derp)"

Want to understand what's going on? Go out and start a small business. Small business owners are hurting bad and dont know what the future will bring. Meanwhile the applicants either suck, or have a sucky attitude.

Well, Gee...It's too bad that small business' target demographic for sales is both, broke and overworked.
No money and no time.

/So..vote republican?

You know what small business needs to thrive? Customers.
Not tax breaks, not fewer regulations, but customers.

Unfortunately, nobody is getting paid enough to support a small business economy and the lack of taxes and regulations are making it easy for companies like big boxes to eat everyone's lunch, but even those guys are hurting because people are using the brick and mortar stores as "showrooms" and then they turn around and buy the same products from Amazon.com for $5 less because they don't have the overhead so they can undercut.

We've convinced ourselves that if a company grows so massive that they control everything it's because they are "successful" and not at all because they have bought politicians to rig the game for them. 100 years ago, we all knew monopolies were bad and took steps to prevent that sort of game rigging. 100 years later, we are showing that we have learned exactly nothing.


This is what fark liberals actually believe.

"Lack of taxes".
 
2013-04-10 11:29:29 AM

X-boxershorts: Dog Welder: o5iiawah: Can you explain how a tax cut - which involves money never entering the treasury in the first place is responsible for debt (which involves money leaving the treasury)?

Seriously?

If you are spending too much money and your income is cut, your debt goes up.  It's basic math.

Or, in the case of the past decade, we slashed our country's income to some of the lowest levels (percentage-wise) in decades, and then fought two wars and introduced a massive piece of legislation (Medicare D) on the country's credit card without bothering to raise taxes back up to pay for those things.

Clearly it's all 0blahma's fault.

I know, it's weird. Almost like they're pathologically prohibited from acknowledging that the previous administration turned the economy into a steaming pile of dogshiat, and then proceeded to scream and stamp their feet at any attempt by the current administration to clean up that mess....


What attempts to clean up the mess? Has Obama suggested doing away with Medicare part D? Has he rescinded the bush tax cuts or did he make almost 90% of them permanent? Did he start a new entitlement with ACA instead of dealing with the problems we had with existing entitlements?

I'll agree 100% that Bush was a horribly irresponsible president. But to suggest that Obama is "trying to clean up the mess" is astonishingly comical. He's lucky that he has such a horrible predecessor to compare himself to.
 
MFK
2013-04-10 11:30:14 AM

Generation_D: MFK: X-boxershorts: Lawyers With Nukes: I swear, it's like you farksters live in a cartoon or something.

"Evil rich...(slurp)...gimme jerb...(herp)...I'll kill you and take your stuff...please hire me...(derp)"

Want to understand what's going on? Go out and start a small business. Small business owners are hurting bad and dont know what the future will bring. Meanwhile the applicants either suck, or have a sucky attitude.

Well, Gee...It's too bad that small business' target demographic for sales is both, broke and overworked.
No money and no time.

/So..vote republican?

You know what small business needs to thrive? Customers.
Not tax breaks, not fewer regulations, but customers.

Unfortunately, nobody is getting paid enough to support a small business economy and the lack of taxes and regulations are making it easy for companies like big boxes to eat everyone's lunch, but even those guys are hurting because people are using the brick and mortar stores as "showrooms" and then they turn around and buy the same products from Amazon.com for $5 less because they don't have the overhead so they can undercut.

We've convinced ourselves that if a company grows so massive that they control everything it's because they are "successful" and not at all because they have bought politicians to rig the game for them. 100 years ago, we all knew monopolies were bad and took steps to prevent that sort of game rigging. 100 years later, we are showing that we have learned exactly nothing.

How exactly did Amazon com "rig" the game 15 years ago when some U-W PERL programmers sat down and wrote a shopping cart engine from scratch?

I'm not saying Amazon isn't actively in the "bribe local governments" game now, particularly where their picking and shipping orgs are concerned.

But the original business was 100% start up with not all that much venture capital either.

They beat Best Buy, Wal-Mart and everyone else to the punch with regard to online sales, it even took them 5 or 6 years ...


15 years ago it was Walmart and Best Buy who were rigging the game in their favor. Pushing out local businesses with artificially low prices and then demanding that their vendors give up their profit margins in order to sell to the markets. Amazon would be kind of a comeuppance to them if they weren't showing themselves to be even worse for retail businesses.

Do you think it's ok that one company can control such a large percentage of market share simply because they don't have the overheard of a brick and mortar location? That they've earned it and therefore are entitled to anything they can get?
 
2013-04-10 11:33:19 AM

Tomahawk513: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Tomahawk513: FC Exile: U.S. employers have more job openings than at any other time in nearly five years. That's in part because they seem in no hurry to fill them.

Isn't "not being in a hurry to fill them"  just another way of saying they're not hiring.

It means they want the perfect candidate.

It means they don't want to pay what the job is worth.

Also very true.  No, I will not fix your computers for $11 / hour.


OMG!
Sounds like a job offer that I received from some NJ company a few months ago.
/caller sounded like he was not from the US
//never replied to the email that was sent --- after looking at the wage
///slashies come in threes
 
2013-04-10 11:33:43 AM
I call it BS. I think employers are not hiring because either
A. They are in a position of greed and they are hoarding the cash and making the workers do two or three peoples jobs worth for one persons pay
(or bringing in the outsourcing) or
B. They are barely holding their business afloat, perhaps needing to hire 2 or 3 people they just can't afford to pay for.

It doesn't take a whole lot of thought to know which businesses are A or B.
 
2013-04-10 11:43:24 AM

hardinparamedic: o5iiawah: Obama's policies are almost identical to FDR.  To suggest he's a conservative means you should probably ask for your money back from whatever institution provided you with an education.

[i.imgur.com image 400x400]
How, in the name of Cthulu, are Obama's policies similar in ANY way, shape, or form to FDR's New Deal?

Please explain this one to me. Because of Obama tried to do what FDR tried to do before World War II, he would have been thrown out onto the white house lawn with torches and pitchforks.


Obama is even MORE liberal. FDR never hung out with Bill Ayers.

QED
 
2013-04-10 11:52:03 AM

Red Shirt Blues: I'm a cpa and have a lot of small business clients. It's weird out there. Everyone is walking on egg shells. Te number one question is something along the lines, "What do you think is going to happen?" People seem to be holding on to any cash they have. Anecdotal but I've seen a bit of a down turn on the whole from 2011.


A lot of people are convinced that the economy is going to collapse, and soon. I'm one of them, but not on the "soon" part so much.

We have a completely dysfunctional government thanks to the GOP that has failed to address any of the real problems posed by 2008: no significant new regulation, no attempt to counter "too big to fail," etc. What they have done is manufacture new potential economic crises by playing chicken with the full faith and credit of the United States. And they created an astroturf terrorist organization designed to scare lawmakers, especially Republicans, into never dealing with any of these problems- and replace them with an even stupider model of congressman if they try.

Frankly I'd be farking terrified if I weren't so busy trying to ensure my parents don't lose their house.
 
2013-04-10 11:59:41 AM

Lawyers With Nukes: I swear, it's like you farksters live in a cartoon or something.

"Evil rich...(slurp)...gimme jerb...(herp)...I'll kill you and take your stuff...please hire me...(derp)"

Want to understand what's going on? Go out and start a small business. Small business owners are hurting bad and dont know what the future will bring. Meanwhile the applicants either suck, or have a sucky attitude.


And the imaginary small business owners I mentioned earlier have arrived.
 
2013-04-10 12:17:32 PM

o5iiawah: NewportBarGuy: and we've never incurred as much debt as with tax CUT policies

Can you explain how a tax cut - which involves money never entering the treasury in the first place is responsible for debt (which involves money leaving the treasury)?

jso2897: I agree - Obama is way too conservative. This country needs a real progressive, like FDR

Obama's policies are almost identical to FDR.  To suggest he's a conservative means you should probably ask for your money back from whatever institution provided you with an education.


Well, you're a dumb old poopy-head, too.
 
2013-04-10 12:18:14 PM

FuturePastNow: I wonder how many jobs are unfilled because the terms offered are downright insulting.


Ive been offered a few jobs and the last time I made that kind of money I was in high school. $8.30 an hour to run a S&R department. Jeezus even my company isnt that cheap.
 
2013-04-10 12:23:15 PM

MFK: Generation_D: MFK: X-boxershorts: Lawyers With Nukes: I swear, it's like you farksters live in a cartoon or something.

"Evil rich...(slurp)...gimme jerb...(herp)...I'll kill you and take your stuff...please hire me...(derp)"

Want to understand what's going on? Go out and start a small business. Small business owners are hurting bad and dont know what the future will bring. Meanwhile the applicants either suck, or have a sucky attitude.

Well, Gee...It's too bad that small business' target demographic for sales is both, broke and overworked.
No money and no time.

/So..vote republican?

You know what small business needs to thrive? Customers.
Not tax breaks, not fewer regulations, but customers.

Unfortunately, nobody is getting paid enough to support a small business economy and the lack of taxes and regulations are making it easy for companies like big boxes to eat everyone's lunch, but even those guys are hurting because people are using the brick and mortar stores as "showrooms" and then they turn around and buy the same products from Amazon.com for $5 less because they don't have the overhead so they can undercut.

We've convinced ourselves that if a company grows so massive that they control everything it's because they are "successful" and not at all because they have bought politicians to rig the game for them. 100 years ago, we all knew monopolies were bad and took steps to prevent that sort of game rigging. 100 years later, we are showing that we have learned exactly nothing.

How exactly did Amazon com "rig" the game 15 years ago when some U-W PERL programmers sat down and wrote a shopping cart engine from scratch?

I'm not saying Amazon isn't actively in the "bribe local governments" game now, particularly where their picking and shipping orgs are concerned.

But the original business was 100% start up with not all that much venture capital either.

They beat Best Buy, Wal-Mart and everyone else to the punch with regard to online sales, it even took them 5 or 6 years ...

15 years ago it was Walmart and Best Buy who were rigging the game in their favor. Pushing out local businesses with artificially low prices and then demanding that their vendors give up their profit margins in order to sell to the markets. Amazon would be kind of a comeuppance to them if they weren't showing themselves to be even worse for retail businesses.

Do you think it's ok that one company can control such a large percentage of market share simply because they don't have the overheard of a brick and mortar location? That they've earned it and therefore are entitled to anything they can get?


Of course. If they couldn't sell for less than competitors, they wouldn't command so much of the market. And if they are causing lower prices for customers, why is it a problem?

Market concentration only becomes a problem when a seller has monopolistic ability to raise prices indiscriminately because there isn't any competition to undercut.
 
MFK
2013-04-10 12:28:55 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Of course. If they couldn't sell for less than competitors, they wouldn't command so much of the market. And if they are causing lower prices for customers, why is it a problem?

Market concentration only becomes a problem when a seller has monopolistic ability to raise prices indiscriminately because there isn't any competition to undercut.


What if a company lowers its prices artificially to put its competition out of business? Walmart for example, caused a lot of record stores to go out of business because they would use CDs as loss leaders, selling them for $9 when other merchants were selling for $12.

They were able to absorb those "losses" by paying lower wages and paying their vendors less. How is any of this good for anybody besides Walmart?
 
2013-04-10 12:33:50 PM

MFK: You know what small business needs to thrive? Customers.
Not tax breaks, not fewer regulations, but customers.

Unfortunately, nobody is getting paid enough to support a small business economy and the lack of taxes and regulations are making it easy for companies like big boxes to eat everyone's lunch, but even those guys are hurting because people are using the brick and mortar stores as "showrooms" and then they turn around and buy the same products from Amazon.com for $5 less because they don't have the overhead so they can undercut.


This. This right here.

I also have a small business. I'm in my third year of selling dolls at conventions and online, and it's been ... educational to watch the buying trends shift. In 2011, on a Friday-Sunday con, Friday was the second-biggest sales day (first is always Saturday, the one-day pass market is largest then) because people would love a doll and buy it without thinking, and Sunday was really slow because people had impulse-bought all weekend and now were broke. By the end of 2012's season (our con season is roughly Feb-Aug) Friday and Sunday had effectively traded places; everyone on Friday was saying "OMG cute! But today's my looking day, I have to see everything once first", and then on Sunday, people were legit returning to the table and buying stuff, in droves compared to what we expected. People who wanted two dolls were literally flipping coins to decide because they only had enough for one. One person we saw at Otakon told us that she saw us two months earlier at AnimeNEXT, couldn't afford one then, but had set aside a little money every paycheck and now had enough to buy from us - and she did so. We had even raised our prices in the interim and she didn't blink.

tl;dr I'm selling a good product at a good price to the right market, but the market has no money in their hands to give me. I can't make them have money.

We notice other trends too, not just in how people buy from us. People who take cosplay almost professionally seriously - you know the ones, full armor and contact lenses and elaborate props, the ones who go for the whole weekend so they can show off multiple outfits - started showing up at our table wearing Saturday-only badges. More and more people are checking into the hotels carrying flats of bottled water and ramen noodles (as opposed to buying con food). Friday is a slow day until about 7pm, because no one can afford to take that day off work anymore.

Give the customers money and the problem ... well I'm not gonna say the economy will fix itself. But it'll sure as crap right a lot of wrongs.

/shameless plug ahead
//buy my stuff guys! link in profile
///ok i'm done
/slashies are still free, right?
 
2013-04-10 12:50:46 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Of course. If they couldn't sell for less than competitors, they wouldn't command so much of the market. And if they are causing lower prices for customers, why is it a problem?

Market concentration only becomes a problem when a seller has monopolistic ability to raise prices indiscriminately because there isn't any competition to undercut.


Well, it's not a problem unless you give it more than superficial thought.

The problem in this race to the bottom in terms of price means that the quality of the product suffers, as do people whose jobs depend on producing and selling the product.  And that's not to mention the end consumer, who has paid for a product that won't last and will ultimately end up paying more for multiple instances of a shiatty product than had they been able to purchase a quality product at a somewhat higher price.  Unfortunately, the market for that higher-priced, better quality item is gone since people can't afford to pay that higher price, what with their manufacturing or retail job outsourced or negated resulting in limited purchasing power.

So, yes, there are problems with allowing businesses using undercutting tactics to dominate the marketplace.
 
2013-04-10 01:10:36 PM

NewportBarGuy: BunkyBrewman: Spend on credit seems to have worked as well, hasn't it?

Please enlighten us... WHAT exactly worked before?

Hey, asshole, rewording it doesn't make it sink in? I said "Tax and spend worked... cutting taxes AND spending did not work."

Hooked on phonics obviously didn't work for you.


Hooked on Phonics... Now there's a reference I never expected to hear again.
 
2013-04-10 01:17:55 PM

The Bananadragon: We notice other trends too, not just in how people buy from us. People who take cosplay almost professionally seriously - you know the ones, full armor and contact lenses and elaborate props, the ones who go for the whole weekend so they can show off multiple outfits - started showing up at our table wearing Saturday-only badges. More and more people are checking into the hotels carrying flats of bottled water and ramen noodles (as opposed to buying con food). Friday is a slow day until about 7pm, because no one can afford to take that day off work anymore.

Give the customers money and the problem ... well I'm not gonna say the economy will fix itself. But it'll sure as crap right a lot of wrongs.


Thank you for this. I've been thinking this is what's been happening for a long time (I'm generally a one-day pass person and I... just don't go now), but I haven't seen a good confirmation of my suspicions.

I also agree. There IS money in the US economy (I really liked this video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM). But maybe JUST MAYBE if we shifted it just a LITTLE down to the rest of Americans, we'd see a real positive response. Money moving around again. But I forget; that's socialist, right? :P
 
2013-04-10 01:59:53 PM

groppet: FuturePastNow: I wonder how many jobs are unfilled because the terms offered are downright insulting.

Ive been offered a few jobs and the last time I made that kind of money I was in high school. $8.30 an hour to run a S&R department. Jeezus even my company isnt that cheap.


There was a good article on job growth in TX from when Perry was eh front-runner and the majority were min wage or piece-wage jobs while at the same time TX lead the US in employed people with no benefits.
 
2013-04-10 02:13:30 PM
I've been pounding the bricks and getting lots of phone screens on jobs that have been open for months. They seem to look for any excuse to balk at hiring. All of those postings are still open, too. It's a shame because the people I've met on rare in-person interviews are overwhelmed and exhausted.

It sucks, but I may have to drop my price to get them past that hurdle. Then, while ensconced, I am going to keep looking to find a spot where I can normalize my salary again.

BTW - the only reason I have to work at all is for medical insurance. If we had Canada style health care, I'd sell my house, move to an old house with a porch in a semi-rural spot and volunteer read Dr. Seuss to the local kids at the library.
 
2013-04-10 02:22:11 PM

Aidan: The Bananadragon: We notice other trends too, not just in how people buy from us. People who take cosplay almost professionally seriously - you know the ones, full armor and contact lenses and elaborate props, the ones who go for the whole weekend so they can show off multiple outfits - started showing up at our table wearing Saturday-only badges. More and more people are checking into the hotels carrying flats of bottled water and ramen noodles (as opposed to buying con food). Friday is a slow day until about 7pm, because no one can afford to take that day off work anymore.

Give the customers money and the problem ... well I'm not gonna say the economy will fix itself. But it'll sure as crap right a lot of wrongs.

Thank you for this. I've been thinking this is what's been happening for a long time (I'm generally a one-day pass person and I... just don't go now), but I haven't seen a good confirmation of my suspicions.

I also agree. There IS money in the US economy (I really liked this video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM). But maybe JUST MAYBE if we shifted it just a LITTLE down to the rest of Americans, we'd see a real positive response. Money moving around again. But I forget; that's socialist, right? :P


For starters, if they raised the capital gains taxes to closer to that of income, it would help out.  Right now companies are making loads of money simply by shifting paper around Wall St. and getting taxed at a far lower rate than if they'd made that money by making and selling things.  If you only shift money around Wall St., you don't need to pay for manufacturing or employees or other overhead.  There's no incentive to make things.  If the poor and the middle class have no money, they can't buy things, which drops the demand for things that the rich companies aren't making, so the economy stagnates and all the money stays at the top.

Put money in the hands of the poor and middle class, and they will spend it on things, which will increase demand, which will increase employment, and the money will still float to the top.
 
2013-04-10 02:33:29 PM

NewportBarGuy: I hear tell that they also abscond with live lobsters on the first of the month with their food stamps. ...



Speaking of which, there's a state legislator here in Wisconsin who wants to prohibit people receiving food assistance from spending any of it on "expensive steaks".
 
2013-04-10 02:42:06 PM
The absolute inability of the Repubtards to recognize that they only control the House and do not control the Senate or the Presidency (the other 2 things you need in order to pass a law) is what's causing this problem.  They are not willing to comprimise on anything even though they are the MINORITY PARTY and as a result the nation's regulatory, fiscal, economic and tax policies are in a complete quagmire. The "uncertainty" of businesses is 100% the fault of a minority party that doesn't want to have to compromise with the majority.
 
2013-04-10 02:54:19 PM

EngineerAU: I for one look forward to hearing about these guys only being able to find work as managers of the grounds crew at a low end public golf course.


No farking way.  My dad does that.  He's got what is functionally a Masters in Chemistry and Biology (as they apply to grass.  He might not be able to tell you what octonitratehexaflourane* is, but he can tell you what it does and why you apply it in April and not September).  The lower they go, the more shiat they pile on.

Now the high-end ones, where they make $100K a year, wear a suit that never gets dirty, and kiss the rich member's asses, while leaving all the functional "running the course" to their assistant (Note: the good ones don't do that, the bad ones do, and the lucky ones have competent assistants), they could do that.

* Yes, I'm aware that that's not a real chemical.

/Also, you want to use shiatty Roundup.  The good Roundup kills the trees as well as the weeds.  There was a BIG stink about that.
 
2013-04-10 02:59:09 PM

MFK: Debeo Summa Credo: Of course. If they couldn't sell for less than competitors, they wouldn't command so much of the market. And if they are causing lower prices for customers, why is it a problem?

Market concentration only becomes a problem when a seller has monopolistic ability to raise prices indiscriminately because there isn't any competition to undercut.

What if a company lowers its prices artificially to put its competition out of business? Walmart for example, caused a lot of record stores to go out of business because they would use CDs as loss leaders, selling them for $9 when other merchants were selling for $12.

They were able to absorb those "losses" by paying lower wages and paying their vendors less. How is any of this good for anybody besides Walmart?


It's good for consumers who pay less for records.  Do you think consumers should have to pay more, just so vendors or employees get paid more?  Make sure you go to the high-priced gas station next time.  The oil companies need to get more money.

AdmirableSnackbar: Debeo Summa Credo: Of course. If they couldn't sell for less than competitors, they wouldn't command so much of the market. And if they are causing lower prices for customers, why is it a problem?

Market concentration only becomes a problem when a seller has monopolistic ability to raise prices indiscriminately because there isn't any competition to undercut.

Well, it's not a problem unless you give it more than superficial thought.

The problem in this race to the bottom in terms of price means that the quality of the product suffers, as do people whose jobs depend on producing and selling the product.  And that's not to mention the end consumer, who has paid for a product that won't last and will ultimately end up paying more for multiple instances of a shiatty product than had they been able to purchase a quality product at a somewhat higher price.  Unfortunately, the market for that higher-priced, better quality item is gone since people can't afford to pay that higher price, what with their manufacturing or retail job outsourced or negated resulting in limited purchasing power.

So, yes, there are problems with allowing businesses using undercutting tactics to dominate the marketplace.


If the product sucks, then the consumer will not buy the product and walmart will have to increase quality to the point where the product is saleable again.   Do you think wal-mart sold CDs or Cheerios or bottled water or diapers or gas are worse quality that you could buy at the full price local chain?

Please.  Walmart and other large brands have squeezed savings out of suppliers and workers and efficiencies of scale, and pass the savings on to consumers.  That's why consumers go there.  Because you get more value for the dollar than you did at local shops.  Maybe you miss local stores, or you lost a job there, but consumers are better off for the existence of discount chains.
 
2013-04-10 03:01:02 PM

cefm: The absolute inability of the Repubtards to recognize that they only control the House and do not control the Senate or the Presidency (the other 2 things you need in order to pass a law) is what's causing this problem.  They are not willing to comprimise on anything even though they are the MINORITY PARTY and as a result the nation's regulatory, fiscal, economic and tax policies are in a complete quagmire. The "uncertainty" of businesses is 100% the fault of a minority party that doesn't want to have to compromise with the majority.


So Dodd Frank and ACA are the GOPs fault now?
 
2013-04-10 03:05:56 PM

Dog Welder: If you only shift money around Wall St., you don't need to pay for manufacturing or employees or other overhead.


That's exactly right. Businesses are incentivized to not hire people, they're incentivized to move money around Wall Street. Give companies larger tax breaks for hiring and R&D, increase capital gains, and heavily tax offshoring jobs. Also, tax companies laying people off.
 
2013-04-10 03:24:45 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: cefm: The absolute inability of the Repubtards to recognize that they only control the House and do not control the Senate or the Presidency (the other 2 things you need in order to pass a law) is what's causing this problem.  They are not willing to comprimise on anything even though they are the MINORITY PARTY and as a result the nation's regulatory, fiscal, economic and tax policies are in a complete quagmire. The "uncertainty" of businesses is 100% the fault of a minority party that doesn't want to have to compromise with the majority.

So Dodd Frank and ACA are the GOPs fault now?


Dodd Frank didn't go nearly far enough.
 
2013-04-10 03:42:30 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: So Dodd Frank and ACA are the GOPs fault now?


They are the reason both bills are completely useless clusterfarks.
 
MFK
2013-04-10 03:44:08 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: MFK: Debeo Summa Credo: Of course. If they couldn't sell for less than competitors, they wouldn't command so much of the market. And if they are causing lower prices for customers, why is it a problem?

Market concentration only becomes a problem when a seller has monopolistic ability to raise prices indiscriminately because there isn't any competition to undercut.

What if a company lowers its prices artificially to put its competition out of business? Walmart for example, caused a lot of record stores to go out of business because they would use CDs as loss leaders, selling them for $9 when other merchants were selling for $12.

They were able to absorb those "losses" by paying lower wages and paying their vendors less. How is any of this good for anybody besides Walmart?

It's good for consumers who pay less for records.  Do you think consumers should have to pay more, just so vendors or employees get paid more?  Make sure you go to the high-priced gas station next time.  The oil companies need to get more money.


It's not good for the consumer because it is an artificially low and a predatory price point. Do you think Walmart continued to sell CDs for that price after its local competitors were no longer there? No way. All it did in the end was limit the amount of choices consumers had for CDs.
 
2013-04-10 04:04:11 PM

MFK: Debeo Summa Credo: MFK: Debeo Summa Credo: Of course. If they couldn't sell for less than competitors, they wouldn't command so much of the market. And if they are causing lower prices for customers, why is it a problem?

Market concentration only becomes a problem when a seller has monopolistic ability to raise prices indiscriminately because there isn't any competition to undercut.

What if a company lowers its prices artificially to put its competition out of business? Walmart for example, caused a lot of record stores to go out of business because they would use CDs as loss leaders, selling them for $9 when other merchants were selling for $12.

They were able to absorb those "losses" by paying lower wages and paying their vendors less. How is any of this good for anybody besides Walmart?

It's good for consumers who pay less for records.  Do you think consumers should have to pay more, just so vendors or employees get paid more?  Make sure you go to the high-priced gas station next time.  The oil companies need to get more money.

It's not good for the consumer because it is an artificially low and a predatory price point. Do you think Walmart continued to sell CDs for that price after its local competitors were no longer there? No way. All it did in the end was limit the amount of choices consumers had for CDs.


It also made sure that other stores had to sell at lower prices, driving the quality of available goods down at every retailer.  DSC is ignoring the fact that in the long run the consumer pays more to repair and/or replace the cheap, poorly made product than if they could purchase the more expensive, higher quality product.  The vast majority of the market stupidly only cares about up-front costs and not long-term costs (and apparently DSC sides with the morons on that point).  So ultimately, as I said before, it's a race to the bottom - and I don't see how anyone could argue that that's a good thing.
 
2013-04-10 04:28:15 PM
EngineerAU:

"Productivity numbers are likely to take a nose dive and there will be nothing employers will be able to do to get it back since employees will be able to leave if the employer tries to whip them into higher productivity. It's not a situation where you want to be the employer trying to keep up with a competitor who is taking your market share and racing away."

You have just described why the Republican Party takes joy in weakening the economy! They want all the power and privilege to flow upwards away from the ordinary worker. Why else do you think that one of their prime missions is to try and destroy the union movement? In a poor economy, workers have little power due to the threat of being sacked for minor petty infringements hanging over their heads. If a strong economy gives workers the ability to shop around for better working conditions, the power of the corporate elites will diminish in spectacular fashion. Believe me, that is the last thing these greedy power-hungry bastards want!
 
2013-04-10 04:35:01 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Or you could get your Class A license and become a truck driver!
That way, you could never be home while living in a truck and driving/working 10 hours a day (the federal limit, which everyone drives/works up to), and get two days off every two weeks.
You'll earn $40K per year, which is about $26,800 netted after taxes.
Driving 70 hours per week, times 52 weeks, equals 3,640 hours working, divided into $40K, is about $11 bucks per hour.
To enjoy that princely renumeration, you'll need a perfect driving record and be able to pass drug and alcohol screening tests at any moment. You'll need to comply with DOT regulations continuously in the event of random inspections. You, as the driver, take responsibility for the condition of your truck, which you won't own, being a newbie. You'll eat out of a cooler if you're lucky and gain ten pounds per year eating road food. And your daily working conditions will involved driving in all traffic and road conditions, day and night, in all weather, everywhere. You'll be expected to remain accident free while maneuvering long trailers everywhere.

And you know what?
Your federal government will consider your job "Unskilled."
And all for eleven bucks per hour, not including benefits, if any, and before expenses that arise from living out on the road, with the plus of being away from your family constantly.
Trucks. Everything you buy arrives on trucks. Everything.

Nice economy you've got here, Americans.


Yeah, no.   90% of freight in this country is trains. Sure, they need a truck to get to market, but 90% is trains.
 
2013-04-10 04:39:59 PM

Mike_LowELL: Why would I hire more workers at a time when Taxbongo has already collected two of the relics and only needs the Ivory Jackal to achieve global domination?


At least a year ago, I asserted that you had no talent for troll work, and should give it up sooner rather than later.

However, this is quality work, performance trolling at its finest.  I was wrong, and I award you 10/10.
 
2013-04-10 04:51:23 PM

X-boxershorts: I know, it's weird. Almost like they're pathologically prohibited from acknowledging that the previous administration turned the economy into a steaming pile of dogshiat, and then proceeded to scream and stamp their feet at any attempt by the current administration to clean up that mess....


Stamp their feet?  What policy has Obama pushed, that republicans opposed, would save the economy?  show your work.
The only economic proposals I've seen are tax rates designed to make things more "Fair".  The tax rates dont create jobs, nor to they really impact the deficit.
Each of the president's bets on green energy has failed
 
2013-04-10 04:57:23 PM

AdmirableSnackbar: It also made sure that other stores had to sell at lower prices, driving the quality of available goods down at every retailer. DSC is ignoring the fact that in the long run the consumer pays more to repair and/or replace the cheap, poorly made product than if they could purchase the more expensive, higher quality product. The vast majority of the market stupidly only cares about up-front costs and not long-term costs (and apparently DSC sides with the morons on that point). So ultimately, as I said before, it's a race to the bottom - and I don't see how anyone could argue that that's a good thing.


WalMart also by its sheer size distorted the entire music industry.  I don't know if they still only sell radio edits or if iTunes has eaten into their market share but for a while they represented such a big chunk of all CD sales they could push studios around and have an affect on album content.

They can essentially behave in abusively monopolistic ways while selling products like CDs, paperbacks, and pickels.
 
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