bikerbob59: This is Texas. Isn't everyone armed?

I'm not.

Publikwerks:
Lets add a third category there:

Rifles:                       323
Edged weapons:      1,694
Handguns                        7,398

So, you must obviously not have any issue with a handgun ban then?

The point is that since December the huge push has been assault rifles, those big scary rifles that are infrequently used to do horrible things, even though millions of them are owned by millions of citizens across the nation.  The push should be to keep violent and mentally unstable people from committing violent acts against one or many innocent individuals.  The problem is that is a really really damned hard job, and people are generally lazy and want to do as little work as possible - so banning shiat is the easy but ineffective answer.

mbillips: Mikey1969: mbillips: Weird, nobody was killed? I thought it was just as easy to go on a murderous rampage with a knife or baseball bat as with a semi-automatic .223 rifle.

More killed by knives than all rifles, smei-auto, "assault", etc. Included...

Rifles: 323
Edged weapons: 1,694

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in- th e-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

But hey, believe what you want, I guess. You've obviously been on 'selective filter' mode, anyway.

Shifting the goal posts. It's not a matter of what weapons are used in the most crimes. It's a matter of what weapons are used in the crimes that people lose their shiat over, which are mass shootings by loonies. And rifles are really a lot more useful for that, especially rifles that you can shoot really quickly.

Personally, I'm against assault weapons bans, because there's no way to really effectively ban them, just window-dressing laws about how new guns can be manufactured and sold. Without total confiscation, there are plenty of high-capacity mags and semi-auto rifles to shoot them in, and there's no way we're ever going to get to confiscation in this country.

You don't have to be in favor of assault weapons bans, though, to be annoyed by the blatant lying by their defenders. Face it, idiots want .223 ARs so that they can pretend to be ready for guerilla warfare, and their proliferation makes the lone nut gunman that seems increasingly prevalent a bit more dangerous. There are much better guns for hunting and target shooting. Admit that it's a toy that you don't want taken away because you like your toy, and quit claiming there's any compelling reason for people to own semi-auto versions of military rifles, chambered in a varmint cartridge.

1. Depends on the type of target shooting.

2. I use my AR-15 to hunt varmints. Are you suggesting that a semi-auto rifle chambered in a varmint cartridge is unsuitable for use against varmints?

3. Many people enjoy the fact that the AR-15 and AR-10 platforms can be made to shoot a variety of cartridges that are excellent for target and hunting purposes, and use them for such.  Just because it was originally a military design, does that mean it cannot be adapted for and accepted for civilian use?

mbillips: Bravo Two: Publikwerks: Mikey1969: mbillips: Weird, nobody was killed? I thought it was just as easy to go on a murderous rampage with a knife or baseball bat as with a semi-automatic .223 rifle.

More killed by knives than all rifles, smei-auto, "assault", etc. Included...

Rifles: 323
Edged weapons: 1,694

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in- th e-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

But hey, believe what you want, I guess. You've obviously been on 'selective filter' mode, anyway.

Lets add a third category there:

Rifles:                       323
Edged weapons:      1,694
Handguns                        7,398

So, you must obviously not have any issue with a handgun ban then?

Now subtract roughly 60% of that number which are suicides...

No, those are homicide numbers. About 15,000 people commit suicide each year with guns.

Which points out that there are 15,000 people a year who need mental healthcare...

mbillips: You don't have to be in favor of assault weapons bans, though, to be annoyed by the blatant lying by their defenders. Face it, idiots want .223 ARs so that they can pretend to be ready for guerilla warfare, and their proliferation makes the lone nut gunman that seems increasingly prevalent a bit more dangerous. There are much better guns for hunting and target shooting. Admit that it's a toy that you don't want taken away because you like your toy, and quit claiming there's any compelling reason for people to own semi-auto versions of military rifles, chambered in a varmint cartridge.

Please identify rifle models chambered in .223 Remington better suited for hunting and target shooting than the AR platform. Please explain why, if I wish to "pretend to be ready for guerrilla warfare", that I have modified my AR rifle to fire .22LR caliber ammunition and explain why I own no .223 Remington caliber ammunition.

MassAsster: Honestly - it's just proof that banning crap doesn't work

Because this wacko couldn't , or didn't get a hold of a gun, he found another weapon to use..  Crazy is crazy, doesn't matter what you ban or restrict, how about fixing the god damn crazy...

Not sure if stupid or retarded...

Bravo Two: WTF Indeed: It's a good thing gun control advocates have been pushing a massive mental health overhaul instead of banning weapons rarely used in gun crimes.

I know!

We're waiting for that massive mental health overhaul plan. Lay it on us whenever you think we're ready for it. Be sure to explain where the funding comes from as well, can't wait to hear your response on that.

lostcat: Yes, a knife of some kind.

Until someone pulls an NYPD and shoots 9 people in the crowd while missing the guy with the knife.

All you need is Christ, son, didn't you hear Fox News? ACTIVATE BOOTS OF THE GOSPEL!!!

Barracuda: Publikwerks:
Lets add a third category there:

Rifles:                       323
Edged weapons:      1,694
Handguns                        7,398

So, you must obviously not have any issue with a handgun ban then?

The point is that since December the huge push has been assault rifles, those big scary rifles that are infrequently used to do horrible things, even though millions of them are owned by millions of citizens across the nation.  The push should be to keep violent and mentally unstable people from committing violent acts against one or many innocent individuals.  The problem is that is a really really damned hard job, and people are generally lazy and want to do as little work as possible - so banning shiat is the easy but ineffective answer.

So then why do you not do a valid comparison?

What's the ratio of rifle deaths to handgun deaths relative to the ratio of rifles (or assault rifles) to handguns?

Because the facts aren't nearly as intentionally misleading. (not a question)

Publikwerks: Listen, you can try and make this out to be an Obama joke, or try and make out knives to be more dangerous than a gun somehow, but the fact of the matter is that this is what Sandy Hook would  have been like had we had no second amendment and all firearms were banned or highly regulated.

Kepp making your jokes. Obviously, it's not too high a price.

And you're clearly living in a magical, fantasy world where savagery meets sorcery, but we'll just keep making fun of both sides in this without your permission, mister.

mbillips: Registration doesn't violate the 2nd Amendment, either. Registration is actually pretty sensible, because it allows cops to trace guns used in crimes. Unobtrusive, too; all they'd have to do is not throw away the background check info. The only argument against it is herpaderp paranoia about the gun grabbers coming for your guns if they know where they are. Personally, I'd kind of like to see the cops take guns away from lunatics, convicted felons and domestic batterers. Probably save a fair number of lives.

Concerns that registration will lead to confiscation would be paranoia, had registration not previously and demonstrably led to firearm confiscation.

lostcat: justtray: MassAsster: Honestly - it's just proof that banning crap doesn't work

Because this wacko couldn't , or didn't get a hold of a gun, he found another weapon to use..  Crazy is crazy, doesn't matter what you ban or restrict, how about fixing the god damn crazy...

Not sure if stupid or retarded...

Bravo Two: WTF Indeed: It's a good thing gun control advocates have been pushing a massive mental health overhaul instead of banning weapons rarely used in gun crimes.

I know!

We're waiting for that massive mental health overhaul plan. Lay it on us whenever you think we're ready for it. Be sure to explain where the funding comes from as well, can't wait to hear your response on that.

Come on...The Replublican-controlled congress is clearly motivated to increase funding for programs that would aid those with mental health issues. Haven't they made that clear by all of their historic votes?

I just love how exactly 0 of the people who make the better mental health argument have proposed even a single mental health solution. Biggest deflection ever.

Hey guys whats going on in this thread?

Marine1: FWIW, the article has a picture of someone being carted out of a helicopter. That usually doesn't happen unless it's bad and they need to get someone in surgery right farking now.

In all seriousness, this isn't true. You'd be surprised how abused and misused helicopter EMS is on a daily basis.

phenn: mbillips: About 15,000 people commit suicide each year with guns.

Citation needed.

The statistic is roughly accurate.

Obviously, banning rifles that feature handgrips, collapsing stocks and threaded barrels will substantially reduce that number.

Alphakronik: So apparently the perp used a box-cutter?  What kind of men do they have down in Texas that they can't take down a crazy person with a box-cutter?

I suppose the same type that let a bunch of men with box cutters hijack a plane and fly it into a building.

Mikey1969: Publikwerks: Mikey1969: mbillips: Weird, nobody was killed? I thought it was just as easy to go on a murderous rampage with a knife or baseball bat as with a semi-automatic .223 rifle.

More killed by knives than all rifles, smei-auto, "assault", etc. Included...

Rifles: 323
Edged weapons: 1,694

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in- th e-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

But hey, believe what you want, I guess. You've obviously been on 'selective filter' mode, anyway.

Lets add a third category there:

Rifles:                       323
Edged weapons:      1,694
Handguns                        7,398

So, you must obviously not have any issue with a handgun ban then?

Handguns haven't been the focus of the derp-fest. Just "assault rifles", over and over and over and over. It's actually a great way to tell that the people fueling the fire don't give two shiats about learning the facts, which is the point that I am trying to make, and what annoys most people on the pro-gun side here.

As someone on the pro-gun side, I get your point, and I think all of us agree with you to some extent. WE know that "ASsault Rifles" aren't, and haven't been, the problem.  We even know that *handguns* aren't really the problem.

The PROBLEM is that there are lots of people out there that fall into one of these categories:

- Mentally ill and in need of therapy/hospitalization
- Suffering from extreme poverty or a substance addiction and turning to a force multiplier in order to try and get money quickly
- Participants in another criminal enterprise, such as drugs, attempting to protect their enterprise
- Individuals living in areas with little community infrastructure and few Positive role models, allowing the development of "Social organizations" that center around criminal activities, and behave in violent ways (Gangs).
- Individuals who do not have the tools to deal with abuse, anger, etc.

Unfortunately, we have yet to develop a means of combating poverty, social decline, mental health issues, personal development issues that doesn't in some way involve large amounts of time, energy, and capital to address, and very little remaining drive to support private entities that once worked in these areas to drive improvement, combined with generations of people that only care as long as it's favorable to do so, or only as long as it's in the collective consciousness of the community. Once it falls from the lime light, no one continues to pay attention to the problem.

We as a society have, unfortunately, grown short-sighted and reactionist, leading to the continued failure of social programs and other measures intended to rebuild and shore up our nation's foundations.

To whit, compared to the "new deal", the stimulus was a joke and did nothing to put resources into long-term improvement projects of infrastructure, which both creates jobs and improves the resources available that people rely on.

We've passed a "health care overhaul" which did little to address a lot of the burgeoning issues of the health care industry and almost nothing to address less obvious points like mental health, and leave us in a position where we aren't really much better off than we were, except on paper.

Continued attempts to pass weapons bans and gun control measures that will not affect crime rates or actual incidents of death in this country.

Also as much as I'm all for the free, individual American spirit, as many have come to know I cherish very deeply, I'm more a believer now in the social contract to the point that I think that in some ways, the government should act as a tool of the people to take a little from everyone to see to it that the root causes of violence, disease, famine, and other basic ills of society are addressed.

Likewise, I'm inclined to believe that private industry should operate in such a manner as to balance their responsibility to shareholders and their responsibility to the communities they operate in.

stonicus: Not a doctor?  Shut up about your broken leg!

POSSIBLE broken leg. You cannot say that, because you are NOT a doctor, Sir. You are not qualified to say what that bone sticking out actually is.