whistleridge: Why We Will Not Go To War With North Korea:

1. A tank gets 0.6 miles per gallon
2. North Korea produces 0.0 billion barrels of oil per day
3. China exports  8,432 bbl/day to North Korea
4. Seoul alone has a population of 10,000,000+ people
5. North Korea has approximately 5,000 tanks, more than half of which are absurdly outdated
6. Even without South Korean resistance, they would need all of those tanks AND about 1,000,000 supporting men, trucks, etc to take and hold Seoul
7. Which they would need lots and lots and LOTS of fuel for
8. Which they won't get without Chinese support

Also: 

1. North Korean nuclear weapons are smaller than the Hiroshima bomb
2. North Korea's sole nuclear plant only puts out enough material to make about one bomb per year
3. Their missiles can only just barely reach the US, if at all
4. North Korea has only conducted 7 missile tests, 2 of which were long range and one of which failed

To sum up: they probably can't shoot us at all. Even if everything goes perfectly and won't shoot it down and the missile lands on target AND the bomb goes off...it will probably be less than 1/2 the yield of the Hiroshima bomb. For which we would immediately turn their whole country into a self-illuminating glass parking lot. Or invade, burn their palace down around their ears, and hang every man we found. Either way, it would be the total destruction of both their regime and their state, in return for...not all that much. 

A more scary scenario involves a launch at Seoul or Tokyo, but even that would get instant condemnation and destruction. Hell...China would HELP us dismantle them at that point.

The only scenario where this possibly leads to war in one in which they somehow get Chinese backing, then use those nukes to blast a couple of big-ass holes through the DMZ and roll south with everything they have. They would do a LOT of damage. Seoul would be wrecked, central South Korea would be a mess, and it would take some pretty sharp action to stop th ...

Whatever's going on in NK, it's managed to put China on the same side as Japan.

No matter what else goes down, 'that' deserves to be noticed and remarked upon.

Why We Will Not Go To War With North Korea:

1. A tank gets 0.6 miles per gallon
2. North Korea produces 0.0 billion barrels of oil per day
3. China exports  8,432 bbl/day to North Korea
4. Seoul alone has a population of 10,000,000+ people
5. North Korea has approximately 5,000 tanks, more than half of which are absurdly outdated
6. Even without South Korean resistance, they would need all of those tanks AND about 1,000,000 supporting men, trucks, etc to take and hold Seoul
7. Which they would need lots and lots and LOTS of fuel for
8. Which they won't get without Chinese support

Also: 

1. North Korean nuclear weapons are smaller than the Hiroshima bomb
2. North Korea's sole nuclear plant only puts out enough material to make about one bomb per year
3. Their missiles can only just barely reach the US, if at all
4. North Korea has only conducted 7 missile tests, 2 of which were long range and one of which failed

To sum up: they probably can't shoot us at all. Even if everything goes perfectly and won't shoot it down and the missile lands on target AND the bomb goes off...it will probably be less than 1/2 the yield of the Hiroshima bomb. For which we would immediately turn their whole country into a self-illuminating glass parking lot. Or invade, burn their palace down around their ears, and hang every man we found. Either way, it would be the total destruction of both their regime and their state, in return for...not all that much. 

A more scary scenario involves a launch at Seoul or Tokyo, but even that would get instant condemnation and destruction. Hell...China would HELP us dismantle them at that point.

The only scenario where this possibly leads to war in one in which they somehow get Chinese backing, then use those nukes to blast a couple of big-ass holes through the DMZ and roll south with everything they have. They would do a LOT of damage. Seoul would be wrecked, central South Korea would be a mess, and it would take some pretty sharp action to stop them. But it would happen. It would be the Korean War all over again, with the same result: unless China or Russia intervenes on behalf of North Korea, they cease to exist. 

North Korea is all kinds of crazy, but suicidal they aren't. Even if they actually believe their own propaganda vis-a-vis the US, they're quite realistic when it comes to China. They know they have an icicle's chance in Hell of taking them, and they have even less chance than that of surviving very long without their backing.

In summary: short of suicide, there will be no war, at least not started by North Korea. This current brinksmanship is happening for internal political reasons in North Korea, and will blow over eventually.

I am more and more convinced that North Korea is really hoping for war, so that they can get rebuilt by the West. It takes them out of the Chinese pocket, it keeps the Russians out of their hair, and afterwards, Little Kim can be one of the cool kids at the UN table. At least one of the ones who got out of the dictator for life game, and retires someplace warm, with a lot of security paid for on someone else's dime...

ThatGuyGreg: whistleridge: 3. Their missiles can only just barely reach the US, if at all

Everybody posts that map, with no legend as to what the dark red vs. the light red means.

Fine.

Here:



And here:



And here:



The point is: Vancouver, Seattle, San Francisco, and LA are all in the 'maybe...if everything goes right' range. 

Also, Alaska and Hawaii are very much part of the US.
 
Not in terms of economic production they don't. Yeah, hitting the Alaskan oil fields or ports would put quite a dent in our oil for awhile, but it only kill a few thousand to tens of thousands, and wouldn't really do much besides that. Ditto for hitting Pearl Harbor. 

If you want to risk having your country wiped out, you want to guarandamntee you can take out a major population center like LA or Chicago, not piddle around with a secondary target. That's the whole point of MAD. They don't have it.

Although frankly, if they REALLY want to hurt the US...aim at Silicon Valley. You take out Apple, Google, Yahoo, Cisco, Oracle, and all the other brains living and working there, and you've set us back 25 - 30 years. That actually scares me more than them hitting LA.

OK, hands up who got this picture in their minds when they first heard that the Japanese were deploying a missile
defense system?

ThatGuyGreg: PreMortem: Should shoot it down as soon as it's over the Sea of Japan. Considering they've publicly stated that their intention is to nuke the US.

I imagine the US'll shoot down anything as soon as it clears NK airspace.

Sadly, that's harder to do than you might think. Just like they're lying through their teeth about shooting the US, we're lying through our teeth about our ability to shoot everything down.

Ground-based interceptors (GBI) have about a 50% success rate in tests, and that's under conditions where we know when the shot is coming, where it's being aimed, how fast it will be going, and what the profile of the target it. Expect that rate to drop by at least 50% in real-world conditions. We cheat, and say we'll fire 4 or 5 for a cumulative kill rate of 97%, but that's a projection - it's never been tested.

Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) has a 100% test rate to date, but it's more limited in range and speed.

So...IF we can get THAAD-equipped ships in place, and IF they get proper intelligence of a coming test shot, and IF they can fire in the 1 - 2 minute window needed to successfully intercept, then yes...we can probably shoot their missile down. If THAAD doesn't come into play, we've got a greatly diminished chance of shooting it down.

Don't get me wrong: it's a hell of a lot more than we had in the Cold War, and a hell of a lot better than the 'nothing' everyone else has, but it's still far from a sure thing.

Should shoot it down as soon as it's over the Sea of Japan. Considering they've publicly stated that their intention is to nuke the US.

Can't imagine why Japan would be all flinchy about possible nuke tests.



Oh, yeah.

PreMortem: Should shoot it down as soon as it's over the Sea of Japan. Considering they've publicly stated that their intention is to nuke the US.

I imagine the US'll shoot down anything as soon as it clears NK airspace.

AdolfOliverPanties: They have shiat for natural resources.

Really?

neongoats: stonicus: Kim is like someone who plays the single player version of an FPS on easy level, then thinks he is going to dominate in actual on-line multiplayer situations.

You mean RTS.. I mean, they are Korean after all.

EatHam: AdolfOliverPanties: They have shiat for natural resources.

Really?

To be fair, those RREs are way way way out of reach right now.  NK mines only operate at about 30% capacity out of safety concerns.  They're obscenely outdated and in need of serious repair.  To get at those RREs in any real capacity would take a massive overhaul of existing infrastructure and modernization of their mining equipment.

A serious serious investment that would only pay off in a decade or so, if that.

GAT_00: Walker: Japan ain't gonna do sh*t. North Korea has launched missiles over them before and they didn't do sh*t.

Has Japan ever claimed they would shoot down a test missile before?

Just read that.  Also, caught this tidbit that's going to drive NK nuts...

He said Okinawa was "the place that is most effective in responding to emergencies ... so we should deploy the unit in Okinawa on a permanent basis".

Permanent basis for a few Patriot missile launchers.  That's basically the Japanese saying "No more missile flyovers of Japan for you."

hubiestubert: I am more and more convinced that North Korea is really hoping for war, so that they can get rebuilt by the West. It takes them out of the Chinese pocket, it keeps the Russians out of their hair, and afterwards, Little Kim can be one of the cool kids at the UN table. At least one of the ones who got out of the dictator for life game, and retires someplace warm, with a lot of security paid for on someone else's dime...

I don't believe that Kim would make it through such an affair with both his head and his freedom intact.  The world hasn't been kind to disposed dictators of late.

Walker: Japan ain't gonna do sh*t. North Korea has launched missiles over them before and they didn't do sh*t.

Has Japan ever claimed they would shoot down a test missile before?

hubiestubert: I am more and more convinced that North Korea is really hoping for war, so that they can get rebuilt by the West. It takes them out of the Chinese pocket, it keeps the Russians out of their hair, and afterwards, Little Kim can be one of the cool kids at the UN table. At least one of the ones who got out of the dictator for life game, and retires someplace warm, with a lot of security paid for on someone else's dime...

Unlikely to happen.  More likely is a Chinese annexation of NK.  And they'll only do that if absolutely necessary.

hubiestubert: I am more and more convinced that North Korea is really hoping for war, so that they can get rebuilt by the West. It takes them out of the Chinese pocket, it keeps the Russians out of their hair, and afterwards, Little Kim can be one of the cool kids at the UN table. At least one of the ones who got out of the dictator for life game, and retires someplace warm, with a lot of security paid for on someone else's dime...

Not a bad result for the little prick, if it works out exactly as he hopes.  It won't though.  Being rebuilt by the west is one thing, but that country is a barren wasteland, and not because of the Kim Jong family.  They can't grow anything.  They can't produce anything but weapons.  Sadly, they are very good at that.  We can't go in and rebuild and turn them into a thriving economy based on agriculture or business.  They have shiat for natural resources.

StopLurkListen: Uchiha_Cycliste: My only thought about this scenario is that it could be pulled off with a little submarine.

I hafta say it again? THIS KIND OF ATTACK IS ALMOST FUTILE.

Go here: http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html. Type in an address ("San Francisco, CA" or "Seoul" or Los Angeles") and a yield in kilotons ("7" = North Korea's latest test yield) and center the map as close as possible to the shore. Put it right up against ATT Park, even.

A few city blocks get vaporized. Many hundreds of thousands of windows shatter. And that's about it.

Try Tokyo - even more futile. A big bang, but a very big metropolis remains untouched. And now there are several hundred million very, very, very angry people with more firepower than God (at least as far as you're concerned, if you're Kim Jong Un)

What I was considering was not the immediate damage from the blast but the long term consequences from the fallout and irradiated water. That big boom would throw many tons of instantly radioactive water into the air and all over the cities. It would screw things up pretty badly as we learned at Bikini Atol

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: scubamage: I can't help but wonder if this is a feint to try and restructure their country by providing a media-friendly "blaze of glory" moment. Their officials know that with their current economy and standard of living, they aren't going to go anywhere but more downhill. Their isolationism has strangled them. Un is smart enough to know that he can't win and that their current system of government is unsustainable, but can't speak out because of the old guard in the military and older party members. So, he is driving their country into a battle they can't possibly win so their country is forcefully rebuilt and their people can thrive - the ones that live through it anyway.

Or, they have a dagger hidden at our back somewhere and we haven't figured out where. Those are the two scenarios I can think of.

Cyber attack and a high altitude EMP nuke? Maybe a couple of hundred English-speaking business-suited armed commandos landing in Seattle and disbursing throughout the country via bus and rail?


The whole thing is ludicrous, but this is the part that really has me rolling.

It's fairly easy for SK to pick up infiltrators and spies, due to how badly out of date they're dressed and how they gawk and stare at the most mundane of things.  Like a grocery store.

So, the concept of English speaking NKorean commandos sneaking into America is enough to have me giggling like I'm high.

foo monkey: A bomb smaller than Little Boy would still decimate a city, moran.

Uh, you shouldn't be too sure of that. A bomb like little boy would not do too much damage to a city with modern construction involving concrete and steel. One of the main reasons it did SO MUCH damage when dropped on Nagasaki was that the city was literally made of wood and rice paper.

There's a reason no one uses single, big bombs anymore. MIRVs and multiple weapons with overlapping detonation patterns to create consecutive overpressure waves and firestorms are where it's at now.

Tomorrow Japan will activate:

and shoot down the missile.

Oldiron_79: IF best Korea makes us nuke them I hope we use Manned Strategic Bombers rather than ICBMs or SLCMs just so the CHICOMs or Rooskies dont have thier early warning systems go full retard and think we are launching at them.

There hasn't been any real chance that the US would use nuclear weapons for anything other than retaliation against a nuclear attack from the Soviet Union since at least the late 1960's. And Obama is probably the most anti-nuclear President that we've ever had. More importantly it's VERY unlikely that this will become a shooting war, even if N. Korea launches a missile over Japan(unlikely) the Japanese will shoot it down and the world will continue very much the same as it did yesterday.

Infernalist: whistleridge: Why We Will Not Go To War With North Korea:

[SNIP Interesting stuff]

Whatever's going on in NK, it's managed to put China on the same side as Japan.
No matter what else goes down, 'that' deserves to be noticed and remarked upon.

Well, Saddam Hussein managed to unite the USSR and the USA (though, to be fair, this was post-Soviet Russia).

But, yeah:  when you put it that way, the uniting of two age-old mortal enemies is a mark of how crazy dangerous
Lil' Kim has managed to become.

Oldiron_79: IF best Korea makes us nuke them I hope we use Manned Strategic Bombers rather than ICBMs or SLCMs just so the CHICOMs or Rooskies dont have thier early warning systems go full retard and think we are launching at them.

In the highly unlikely event of things going that far, you can be pretty sure that the other ICBM capable countries would get a heads up prior to launch.

akula: Not sure I want to see those.

Farking filter. I meant the Boobies that I made. 

You're more optimistic than I am that there won't be war. I tend to think it's unlikely, but when you get stuff all primed up and the Norks are just wild and nutty, and well, shiat can happen from something like a missile test when you've been promising to nuke everybody within reach.

NK has a long and glorious history of talking big and playing small. They haven't fought a meaningful action since the 1950s. Their equipment is outdated. They're on the edge of a famine, they have untested leadership, and they have to know our military is both veteran and technologically superior. They're like a kid who talks about how he will CUT YOU, but won't do more than chest bump unless he knows his big brother will have his back.

NK has less ability to harm the US directly than Luxembourg current possesses. But they do have the ability to bloody SK's nose (or really piss off the Japanese). Hopefully they'll decide they've rattled their sabers enough, but one of these days they actually WILL cross the line and start something. That or implode. I'd give even money odds between those two potential scenarios playing out.

My bet is on implosion. NK is like the monkey with its hand in the cookie jar for China: they would love to replace them with a more viable ally, but can't without force, which NK has enough nukes to deter. But of course, when they DO implode, those nukes may well come into play anyway. 

And so we're stuck with a pariah state, biding our time and hoping an opportunity eventually comes up that allows us to lower the pressure without anything stupid happening...

whistleridge: akula: whistleridge: Not in terms of economic production they don't. Yeah, hitting the Alaskan oil fields or ports would put quite a dent in our oil for awhile, but it only kill a few thousand to tens of thousands, and wouldn't really do much besides that. Ditto for hitting Pearl Harbor. 

If you want to risk having your country wiped out, you want to guarandamntee you can take out a major population center like LA or Chicago, not piddle around with a secondary target. That's the whole point of MAD. They don't have it.

Although frankly, if they REALLY want to hurt the US...aim at Silicon Valley. You take out Apple, Google, Yahoo, Cisco, Oracle, and all the other brains living and working there, and you've set us back 25 - 30 years. That actually scares me more than them hitting LA.

You're assuming they can actually tip that super long range three stage TD2 missile with a functional nuclear weapon. And that everything works.

I doubt the missile actually has that range, could hit anything accurately (even within a CEP of a few miles) at that range), would actually work as expected, and I REALLY doubt they have a nuclear weapon they can put on the top of the thing. It's one thing to build an atomic bomb. It's another to get the packaging down to a size where it fits on a rocket and is actually deliverable by ICBM.

The only evidence I've seen or heard of (not that I've seen a ton) that they actually have such a warhead is NK's own hyperbolic statements. At this point I'd trust a used car dealer to give me a reliable vehicle at a great price more than I would Kim Jong Un to accurately portray the current state of their forces.

How I can tell you didn't read the whole thread :p 

See my Boobies.

Not sure I want to see those.

You're more optimistic than I am that there won't be war. I tend to think it's unlikely, but when you get stuff all primed up and the Norks are just wild and nutty, and well, shiat can happen from something like a missile test when you've been promising to nuke everybody within reach.

NK has less ability to harm the US directly than Luxembourg current possesses. But they do have the ability to bloody SK's nose (or really piss off the Japanese). Hopefully they'll decide they've rattled their sabers enough, but one of these days they actually WILL cross the line and start something. That or implode. I'd give even money odds between those two potential scenarios playing out.

Given that they have actively THREATENED nuclear war, Japan has absolutely every right to shoot down any missile coming from there.  I rather doubt Japan would do anything else, but they certainly have made it clear that they absolutely do intend to do so.  Patriot missile batteries deployed in Tokyo.  They have to protect their own population, any nation would do the same.

ThatGuyGreg: whistleridge: 3. Their missiles can only just barely reach the US, if at all

Everybody posts that map, with no legend as to what the dark red vs. the light red means. Also, Alaska and Hawaii are very much part of the US.

Considering the level of tech involved in what they laughably call a 'delivery system', they'd be lucky if it didn't accidentally end up landing in China.

GleeUnit: hubiestubert: I am more and more convinced that North Korea is really hoping for war, so that they can get rebuilt by the West. It takes them out of the Chinese pocket, it keeps the Russians out of their hair, and afterwards, Little Kim can be one of the cool kids at the UN table. At least one of the ones who got out of the dictator for life game, and retires someplace warm, with a lot of security paid for on someone else's dime...

I don't believe that Kim would make it through such an affair with both his head and his freedom intact.  The world hasn't been kind to disposed dictators of late.

Deposed, even.

I plan on moving to Hawaii in a few years.  I personally give my blessing to wipe NK off the map if it's continued existence would screw up my new home.

I North Korea tries shiat. It'll be like WW2 all over again, because a lot of Chosun people will get killed.

StopLurkListen: Uchiha_Cycliste: StopLurkListen: Fair enough, but you only need a "dirty bomb" to do that. And you still have the problem of overwhelming retaliation.

I guess then if you wanted to use the nuke's power too you would want to be under the bay bridge or over in West Oakland where all the shipping goes on. IIRC it's a huge commercial port, right? then you get the irradiated water and destroy commercial shipping, more bang for your buck

Blowing up a bridge would do what for North Korea? Other than causing a transportation headache for commuters it's not a very effective thing to attack. And a port is probably a good place to attack, from our point of view - lots and lots of empty space. They're really just supersized parking lots. I'm trying to get the point across that those North Korean warheads are really low yield. They're weaker than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs. You're not going to level a city with them.

I don't know what "irradiated water" means. Water doesn't become radioactive, the ash is. Water blocks radiation. If there's radioactive ash in the water, it will eventually sink and the radiation would be shielded by the water.

If your aim is to scatter radioactive materials, using a nuke kinda works against you. The superheated column of air lifts most of the ash up into the stratosphere. Unless you ("you" meaning Kim Jong Un) just want to raise the global background radiation... then why not set off bombs in Yongbyon anyway? No delivery plot needed.

I don't know what they get out of it
they said they want to nuke major cities, I'm trying to hepl them figure out how to actually get it done.  Also, I thought one of the unexpected effects from Operation Crossroads was that all the water that fell down after the blasts was radioactive as all hell. Covered the ships they had placed for the tests.

Radioactive Ass: Uchiha_Cycliste: So, So. SF? I'm in redwood.

DC near Seaton. I'm totally "Safe" if someone nukes The City waterfront what with SBM in the way and how the winds blow. I'm totally farked if the San Andreas does another 1906 though. I;m something like a mile or so away from that much more likely scenario (Mussel Rock epicenter).

I've heard tell that Crystal Springs is entirely thanks to the San Andreas. that it sits on the fault and that there is a big indention there because of the fault line. I'm only a few miles from it myself. But thankfully I rent. my plan is to buy a place in the city after the big one hits and everything built after the 1906 is destroyed.

Unrelated. The Agnews developmental center has a spot with a bunch of information about the "The GreatAsylum for theInsane" that used to be there, on one of the plaques it talks about the 1905 earthquake, "which resulted in the deaths of 97 patients and  stuff" lulz

Walker: Japan ain't gonna do sh*t. North Korea has launched missiles over them before and they didn't do sh*t.

New government, new possibilities

Radioactive Ass: Uchiha_Cycliste: I didn't know weight mattered that much when submerged, I figured that it wouldn't affect buoyancy and that once they got it moving it would only take so much energy to keep it going. if weight does matter a lot then my idea is right out the window. I was thinking that with a skeleton crew and lots of batteries they might be able to avoid snorkeling by virtue of having enough power and using up very little O2, but I'll happily default to your opinion on this.
BMB was a great book. My father used to work for a defense company and can't tell me anything about the work, but one day he handed me that book and dogeared one of the pages, telling me that it's an interesting book and that "one of the pages had been dog-eared *wink*" Very cool.

Weight is all that matters when submerged, and i say that as someone who was qualified (provisionally) as a Chief of the Watch (the guy whose job it was to pump water around and out amongst other things). And not just weight but properly balanced weight. Down to a few hundred pounds when you are dead in the water and hovering. Speed is what makes that easier to control, faster means that you can use the hull as a plane and not have to worry so much about it. But you still want to be on top of it just in case something bad happens.

Submarines are unlike surface ships in that in a surface ship they start off with a rough plan when designing them. There is a lot of reserve buoyancy to play with as they go along and that means a lot of room to shift things around to balance them out. A submarine has to pretty much be completely designed and the weight distribution calculations made before a single hull section is formed. Lead ballasting can help to fine tune it (for example a regular 688 had about 100 tons of lead ballast in the front which is one of the reasons why the 688i could add vertical launch tubes later on and even then when on the surface they (the original 688's) have a noticeable upward pitch angle. That ate ...

Heh,,,
Also, thanks for the crash course in Subs. I just learned a lot that was no where mentioned in BMB. And, obviously, you just poked a bunch of holes in my already sinking vessel of an idea.

\Hooray for mixed metaphors!

Silverstaff: Evil High Priest: Related question: Why do we assume that all of their hardware is 30-40 years old? Why wouldn't they have been buying relatively new goodies from China for the last few decades?

1. Well, we have these things called satellites.  They fly really high and take really good pictures.  We also have these things called radars, which let us know what's in the air up there.  When we've got no indications that they have any new modern weapons, it's pretty strong indication they don't have a lot of combat-ready advanced weapons systems.

2. China has been fed up with Best Korea's bullshiat for some time, and even if the PRC was feeling like selling them up-to-date weapons, Best Korea hasn't even had the money to buy food and fuel from anybody in almost 20 years, much less high-end weapons systems.

3. If the DPRK had advanced weapons, now would be the time to show them off, to let the world know they are a mighty threat and that they are serious.  It would let Kim Jong Donut show off to his people and show the might of Juche.  We fly B-2's and F-22's by there to show off what we can do.  What does NK do?  They show lots of soldiers marching in tight formation and Lil' Kim being lead around by Generals in big funny hats.

Heh, every time I see Juche I think of shin angyo onshi. Good read (read it Sunday)

Radioactive Ass: Infernalist: To say nothing of the fact that NK only has diesel subs.

A Romeo (which they do have several of) is capable of making the trip (10k mile range IIRC) however they are some noisy farks when snorkeling (and we already know what to listen for, they are very old) which is why I said what I said. Their other boats aren't designed for blue water that I'm aware of and the Pacific is our playground. Nothing with a motor gets past the international dateline heading west that we don't at least take some small notice of outside of perhaps some of the newest Russian (nuclear) boats that are intentionally playing quiet (apparently they finally figured out how to make them quieter right as the Cold War ended).

Diesel electrics are great for coastal brown waters because they can take advantage of the inherently bad SONAR conditions found there but once they hit the open ocean they are our biatches should we decide to make them so.

And none of this takes into consideration the sheer impossibility of NK shipping their only deterrent out of country on a suicide mission.

Creating fissionable material takes a 'long' time if you're NK, and they just tested a nuke not too many months ago.  Odds are, they don't even have a device capable at this time.

Radioactive Ass: Uchiha_Cycliste: My only thought about this scenario is that it could be pulled off with a little submarine.

No. 6k (or more if they leave from the west coast of Best Korea) miles across the open ocean where the navy has SONAR arrays that cover pretty much every square mile means that they would be heard snorkeling long before they got here and either be sunk or turned back home after being forced to surface. The trip one way would also be more than 50 days in duration using their boats and those boats probably can't carry enough food and water to last that long. The Gulf of Mexico is not the Pacific.

I hadn't considered the sonar. Sonar aside, if they modified their sub to be all battery except for the living space for 2 goons;  turn 90% of the space into big batteries and O2 tanks and hope they don't have to snorkel before the bay, is it still impossible?  I honestly don't know. IIRC Blind man's bluff said something like the subs can stay submerged for weeks or even months if necessary, right?

Evil High Priest: Uchiha_Cycliste: My only thought about this scenario is that it could be pulled off with a little submarine.

And then what? Then, we oblueterate them. How does that pencil out for their side?

That's clear in this scenario. I was just trying to expose  a route I hadn't seen mentioned yet. Though apparently, for the reasons mentioned up thread a little, it's not feasible either.

Psylence: hardinparamedic: Psylence: Having watched both series (fine, all 6) I can say that Robotech IS better. Whoever stitched those 3 together for America did a fantastic job. (Carl Macek?)
Macross 2 sucked.

You're the worst monster ever for saying that. Worse than Hitler. Robotech is a disgusting abomination that should have suffered a late term, partial birth abortion.

Macross 2 isn't even considered canon by either Robotech or Macross.

The Macross Saga is where it's at: Macross, Macross:DYRL, Macross 2012, Macross Plus, Macross 7, Macross Frontier.

Yeah, there were some video games that filled in the time gap, Like M3, but generally better than anything Golden Harmony could have ever put out.

/plus, those bastards killed Battletech.

Don't get me started on Battletech or you'll have to hear about how I decap'd a mech with a Savannah Master.

And yeah, the loss of those classic chassis was awful :(


Macross DYRL tells robotech to suck it.

and dont get me started on robotech: the movie, that was a piece of shiat and an insult to megazone 23

Killer Cars: Any possible outcome should be considered on the table, even a Jim Jones-esque "welp, I've managed to kill a congressman, we're farked now. Here kids, drink this".


What else did you think tomorrow was gonna be?  Krazy Koolaid for Kim's Korean Komrades!

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: is that they indirectly introduced me to the funky stylings of Jimmy 'Bo' Horne.

see, the situation isn't all bad

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: AdolfOliverPanties: I plan on moving to Hawaii in a few years.  I personally give my blessing to wipe NK off the map if it's continued existence would screw up my new home.

I'm constantly amazed at the sociopathic self-centeredness of Fark's lefties. So you would trade the lives of 20+ million people for a nice pad in Hawaii?


AdolfOliverPanties: hubiestubert: I am more and more convinced that North Korea is really hoping for war, so that they can get rebuilt by the West. It takes them out of the Chinese pocket, it keeps the Russians out of their hair, and afterwards, Little Kim can be one of the cool kids at the UN table. At least one of the ones who got out of the dictator for life game, and retires someplace warm, with a lot of security paid for on someone else's dime...

Not a bad result for the little prick, if it works out exactly as he hopes.  It won't though.  Being rebuilt by the west is one thing, but that country is a barren wasteland, and not because of the Kim Jong family.  They can't grow anything.  They can't produce anything but weapons.  Sadly, they are very good at that.  We can't go in and rebuild and turn them into a thriving economy based on agriculture or business.  They have shiat for natural resources.


Idiot answering an idiot.

I'm also constantly amazed at the profound ignorance of Fark's lefties.

God help the world if you morons ever run things.

I'm constantly amazed at people who are hard right being so quick to attack statements that are obviously parody, satire and hyperbole. Oh wait, no I'm not. There's three types of hard right people on FARK. Idiots, trolls, and idiots who are trolls.

Infernalist: Whatever's going on in NK, it's managed to put China on the same side as Japan.

Its not whats happening in NK, its whats happening in $China$.

SuperNinjaToad: When I read comments like these I can't help but be amaze but disturbed at the same time by the deep seated hatred of Asian people by the typical 'white' American.

Scuze me?  China is propping up BK, without them BK would implode.  Seems appropriate BK's missile test farks with a Chinese city.  No hatred involved, just delicious irony.

Psylence: Having watched both series (fine, all 6) I can say that Robotech IS better. Whoever stitched those 3 together for America did a fantastic job. (Carl Macek?)
Macross 2 sucked.

You're the worst monster ever for saying that. Worse than Hitler. Robotech is a disgusting abomination that should have suffered a late term, partial birth abortion.

Macross 2 isn't even considered canon by either Robotech or Macross.

The Macross Saga is where it's at: Macross, Macross:DYRL, Macross 2012, Macross Plus, Macross 7, Macross Frontier.

Yeah, there were some video games that filled in the time gap, Like M3, but generally better than anything Golden Harmony could have ever put out.

/plus, those bastards killed Battletech.

Parallax: whistleridge: Killer Cars: whistleridge: Farking filter. I meant the Boobies that I made.

Okay, now I'm very intrigued.

In other news, even some original spellings of the words that rhyme with 'wurst host' get filtered :p

I'm sorry, I just had to check out your profile, figuring you'd have only been a member for a few months; a year tops.  <b>YOU'VE BEEN HERE NINE YEARS</b>, and it took you this long to find the shplurst shplost filter?!  That's... that's just... outstanding!

/sigh, I remember my first blurbst blosht.

Oh, man, you have no idea. I knew about the 1st cereal maker filter in some ways, but I didn't realize that spelling it:

'a-a-a-a-a a-a-a-a' would trigger the filter or 'aaaaaaaaa'. Hence the unintentional hilarity.

Psylence: DjangoStonereaver: tinderfitles: DjangoStonereaver:

I was going to use a pic of a Gundam, but I was always more a Robotech MacrossRobotech  fan.

Fix'd

No it was right the first time.

I meant Robotech, not Macross.

I never watched the original Japanese, and I don't care if that makes me a heathen baka gaijun.

And yes, I know that the '3 seasons' in the US were 3 totally different shows in the original.  I don't really care.

/You sound... weeaboo-ey.....

Having watched both series (fine, all 6) I can say that Robotech IS better. Whoever stitched those 3 together for America did a fantastic job. (Carl Macek?)
Macross 2 sucked.

Full metal panic is bestest =3

But don't we have all that tech from Reagan's Star Wars programs to protect us from nuclear missiles?

Oh, wait, I forgot: that whole thing -- laser satellites, space weapons, the $8,000 toilet seat -- was faked to divert billions into illegal wars in Central America, the Middle East, and to help the CIA become drug dealers so crack could keep the black man down and the prisons full.

scubamage: rikkitikkitavi: fireclown: Also, if there are any Korean speakers out there, what does "dong" mean in Korean? Can we get word to the NK missile program that the US just can't take missiles named "somethingsomethingDONG" seriously?

Korean is actually called Hangungmal, and "Taepo Dong" is literally "watery place".  Dong is 'place' used commonly as we use -town on the end of place names.

Not to be confused with ddong, which means poop. Which Koreans love for some reason.
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375]

There are likely 14 coffee shops in that picture alone.

scubamage: rikkitikkitavi: fireclown: Also, if there are any Korean speakers out there, what does "dong" mean in Korean? Can we get word to the NK missile program that the US just can't take missiles named "somethingsomethingDONG" seriously?

Korean is actually called Hangungmal, and "Taepo Dong" is literally "watery place".  Dong is 'place' used commonly as we use -town on the end of place names.

Not to be confused with ddong, which means poop. Which Koreans love for some reason.
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375]

Have you ever 'tried' kimchi?

antron: [i46.tinypic.com image 597x402]

HAHA, I got that phrase stuck in the girlfriend's mind skiing last week.

I have never caught the alien in the background before.

tinderfitles: DjangoStonereaver:

I was going to use a pic of a Gundam, but I was always more a Robotech MacrossRobotech  fan.

Fix'd

No it was right the first time.

I meant Robotech, not Macross.

I never watched the original Japanese, and I don't care if that makes me a heathen baka gaijun.

And yes, I know that the '3 seasons' in the US were 3 totally different shows in the original.  I don't really care.

/You sound... weeaboo-ey.....

SuddenlySamhain: I think we should take that 'ray' we used to give Hugo cancer and use it on  that fatty piece of spunk 'ruling' N.Korea.What a fat,greezy turd he is.

Well, sad to say the timing is all wrong.  We just got it set up in earthquake mode and calibrated for Iran.  It's gonna take weeks to get that thing taken apart again and crated back up for shipping.

Sigh, a death ray technician's job is never done.

probesport: Uchiha_Cycliste: whistleridge: Uchiha_Cycliste: whistleridge: Uchiha_Cycliste: probesport: whistleridge: Although frankly, if they REALLY want to hurt the US...aim at Silicon Valley China. You take out Apple, Google, Yahoo, Cisco, Oracle, and all the other brains living and working there, and you've set us back 25 - 30 years. That actually scares me more than them hitting LA.

FTFY

what does this even mean?
 you think hitting fab and manufacturing will be a huge tech setback? that's retarded.

I'm talking about the actual people: the designers, the innovators, the minds that make up those companies that make up such a large chunk of our economy. In real world terms, no...those companies aren't a huge blow. But in terms of psychological and market impact...it would be devastating.

I totally understand what you mean, and I understand and agree wholly. I was asking what's his face why he thought changing SV to China is worse.

FYI I work at one of the companies you mentioned. and I also have a very good idea how the design -> test -> fab -> manf. -> product flow works. No part of his "fixing" made sense.

Apologies. I was very much in 'what about that doesn't make obvious sense' mode. :p

No problem.  I mean.... if for some reason they attacked China, they STILL don't hit fab (which is practically ALL done at TSMC) they only set back manf for like 6 months until they rebuild in a new place.  How on earth would NK bombing China set back Tech 20-30 years? It's a retarded thing to say.

Attacking Silicon valley wouldn't set the tech world back decades either there genius. It's not just lost to times. Hitting manufacturing and driving up prices on damn near every piece of electronics coming into the US while we are still not at the best economic times would be a bigger immediate blow.

Hurrr and/or durrr.

sigh. herp and derp indeed.

Dinobot: Japan will deploy Godzilla, Ultraman, Gamera and the Power Rangers if Best Korea follows thru with their threats.

Don't forget Sailor Moon, Sunfire, Big Hero 6, and a few others.

whistleridge

and that doesn't even touch upon the fact a friggin' Million people live in San Jose alone. Though... I can see the upside of Obliterating Stanfurd.

\GrrrrrrRAH!

whistleridge: Uchiha_Cycliste: whistleridge: Uchiha_Cycliste: probesport: whistleridge: Although frankly, if they REALLY want to hurt the US...aim at Silicon Valley China. You take out Apple, Google, Yahoo, Cisco, Oracle, and all the other brains living and working there, and you've set us back 25 - 30 years. That actually scares me more than them hitting LA.

FTFY

what does this even mean?
 you think hitting fab and manufacturing will be a huge tech setback? that's retarded.

I'm talking about the actual people: the designers, the innovators, the minds that make up those companies that make up such a large chunk of our economy. In real world terms, no...those companies aren't a huge blow. But in terms of psychological and market impact...it would be devastating.

I totally understand what you mean, and I understand and agree wholly. I was asking what's his face why he thought changing SV to China is worse.

FYI I work at one of the companies you mentioned. and I also have a very good idea how the design -> test -> fab -> manf. -> product flow works. No part of his "fixing" made sense.

Apologies. I was very much in 'what about that doesn't make obvious sense' mode. :p

No problem.  I mean.... if for some reason they attacked China, they STILL don't hit fab (which is practically ALL done at TSMC) they only set back manf for like 6 months until they rebuild in a new place.  How on earth would NK bombing China set back Tech 20-30 years? It's a retarded thing to say.

whistleridge: Uchiha_Cycliste: probesport: whistleridge: Although frankly, if they REALLY want to hurt the US...aim at Silicon Valley China. You take out Apple, Google, Yahoo, Cisco, Oracle, and all the other brains living and working there, and you've set us back 25 - 30 years. That actually scares me more than them hitting LA.

FTFY

what does this even mean?
 you think hitting fab and manufacturing will be a huge tech setback? that's retarded.

I'm talking about the actual people: the designers, the innovators, the minds that make up those companies that make up such a large chunk of our economy. In real world terms, no...those companies aren't a huge blow. But in terms of psychological and market impact...it would be devastating.

I totally understand what you mean, and I understand and agree wholly. I was asking what's his face why he thought changing SV to China is worse.

FYI I work at one of the companies you mentioned. and I also have a very good idea how the design -> test -> fab -> manf. -> product flow works. No part of his "fixing" made sense.

probesport: whistleridge: Although frankly, if they REALLY want to hurt the US...aim at Silicon Valley China. You take out Apple, Google, Yahoo, Cisco, Oracle, and all the other brains living and working there, and you've set us back 25 - 30 years. That actually scares me more than them hitting LA.

FTFY

what does this even mean?
 you think hitting fab and manufacturing will be a huge tech setback? that's retarded.

fireclown: Richard C Stanford: I think Putin would run shirtless, drunk, and screaming through Best Korea, punching everything in his way.

I would pay to see that movie.

He is the Chuck Norris of Russia.

kumanoki: "It's an entirely different type of dong altogether."

It's an entirely different type of dong.

In related news, the U.S. annonunces a rest of its missile intercept system on Wednesday

digistil: probesport: Well, it's currently Wednesday in NK.

Its 4:20 am in North Korea. Spark it up!