If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Chosun (Korea))   North Korea has notified nations that it plans to launch a missile over Japan on Wednesday. Japan has notified North Korea that if it does it's about to have a really bad rest of the week   (english.chosun.com) divider line 535
    More: Scary, North Koreans, Japan, missiles  
•       •       •

33537 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Apr 2013 at 2:55 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



535 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-04-09 10:20:03 PM  

Baby_Hole: "You know damn well what I'm saying!"


Is that a real movie?
I'd totally watch that!
 
2013-04-09 10:22:58 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Baby_Hole: "You know damn well what I'm saying!"

Is that a real movie?
I'd totally watch that!


History of the World Part I. Fake trailers, kinda like in the Grindhouse movies.
 
2013-04-09 10:27:58 PM  
Just Another OC Homeless Guy: ...Correct me if I'm mistaken but I don't think we can reliably shoot down artillery shells which is the main danger for Seoul. The rockets, which we can sometimes shoot down, are for more distant targets while Seoul is "nicely" within artillery range.

Much of that artillery is from the 40s and 50s. Ditto the shells, with some from the 60s. Chances of duds and breech fires will be high. Hell, some of the ammo may be so unstable it will detonate when being handled.  Finally, if the artillery starts up there will be a constant steady attrition of them from our side. All that being said, I am sure that there would be much destruction in Seoul.


So we have drones orbiting overhead.  Artillery officer Major Lee pulls the cord.  Shell goes boom.  Cannon goes boom and crews gets dead when the air-to-ground missile zeroes in on the cannon boom.
 
2013-04-09 10:28:25 PM  
Sheesh. This has happened before. This always happens. NK shoots one of its longer-range missiles out over the Pacific. It passes over Japan WAY too high for Patriot batteries to screw with it (that's a short-range, terminal-phase defensive weapon). American Aegis destroyers have the capability to take a shot at it with SM-3 missiles, but they hold off because it a) blows up during the boost phase or b) is headed harmlessly toward open ocean. Kim Jong Un drops the mike and is flabbergasted when this doesn't lead anyone to suggest decreasing UN sanctions against him.

North Korea has a very few, mostly unsuccessful long-range missiles. The one they claim could hit California is a projected supposed improvement to their best one, and doesn't exist yet. They don't have a nuke that they can put ON a missile, just low-powered test explosives that are far too large and cumbersome.

Tomorrow will pass, and nothing of significance will have happened.
 
2013-04-09 10:31:24 PM  
 
2013-04-09 10:31:35 PM  

perigee: pedobearapproved: Obama scraps Bush-era missile defense for new plan

missmeyet.jpg

You mean this one?
[www.q-bo.com image 414x269]

Yeah - If he were in office, he'd already be wearing a flight suit, with a banner saying "Mission Accomplished."

We need a keen tactical mind like that one...


At least President Bush was in a foreign place when that occurred, Obama was at HIS OWN HOME!

i.telegraph.co.uk
 
2013-04-09 10:34:18 PM  

Silverstaff: Evil High Priest: Related question: Why do we assume that all of their hardware is 30-40 years old? Why wouldn't they have been buying relatively new goodies from China for the last few decades?

1. Well, we have these things called satellites.  They fly really high and take really good pictures.  We also have these things called radars, which let us know what's in the air up there.  When we've got no indications that they have any new modern weapons, it's pretty strong indication they don't have a lot of combat-ready advanced weapons systems.

2. China has been fed up with Best Korea's bullshiat for some time, and even if the PRC was feeling like selling them up-to-date weapons, Best Korea hasn't even had the money to buy food and fuel from anybody in almost 20 years, much less high-end weapons systems.

3. If the DPRK had advanced weapons, now would be the time to show them off, to let the world know they are a mighty threat and that they are serious.  It would let Kim Jong Donut show off to his people and show the might of Juche.  We fly B-2's and F-22's by there to show off what we can do.  What does NK do?  They show lots of soldiers marching in tight formation and Lil' Kim being lead around by Generals in big funny hats.


1. Yes, I have heard about such contraptions. I can only assume that they are capable of detecting artillery components inside train cars, yes? Do we have such good surveillance of the dmz that they could not install new goodies un-noticed? I suppose.

2. I thought weapons were just about the only thing they do spend money on. That, and Hennessy.

3. Okey doke, Pard.
 
2013-04-09 10:35:12 PM  

Radioactive Ass: Uchiha_Cycliste: Radioactive Ass: Uchiha_Cycliste: My only thought about this scenario is that it could be pulled off with a little submarine.

No. 6k (or more if they leave from the west coast of Best Korea) miles across the open ocean where the navy has SONAR arrays that cover pretty much every square mile means that they would be heard snorkeling long before they got here and either be sunk or turned back home after being forced to surface. The trip one way would also be more than 50 days in duration using their boats and those boats probably can't carry enough food and water to last that long. The Gulf of Mexico is not the Pacific.

I hadn't considered the sonar. Sonar aside, if they modified their sub to be all battery except for the living space for 2 goons;  turn 90% of the space into big batteries and O2 tanks and hope they don't have to snorkel before the bay, is it still impossible?  I honestly don't know. IIRC Blind man's bluff said something like the subs can stay submerged for weeks or even months if necessary, right?

Batteries are farking heavy. I mean really farking heavy. You can't simply add enough to make that much of a difference. Maybe... and I do mean maybe, you could double the batteries if you stripped out enough weight. and go 100 miles before snorkeling instead of 50 miles.

As far as staying submerged, if you read that book then you read in one of the first chapters where a US diesel boat was forced to surface by a Soviet ship in the western Pacific. That incident was one of the reasons why the USN went all nuclear submarines. Those (nuclear) boats can and do stay down for months at a time and can make their own O2 (at a tremendous cost in electricity, which they have an abundance of).


I didn't know weight mattered that much when submerged, I figured that it wouldn't affect buoyancy and that once they got it moving it would only take so much energy to keep it going.   if weight does matter a lot then my idea is right out the window.  I was thinking that with a skeleton crew and lots of batteries they might be able to avoid snorkeling by virtue of having enough power and using up very little O2, but I'll happily default to your opinion on this.
BMB was a great book. My father used to work for a defense company and can't tell me anything about the work, but one day he handed me that book and dogeared one of the pages, telling me that it's an interesting book and that "one of the pages had been dog-eared *wink*" Very cool.
 
2013-04-09 10:36:24 PM  

Radioactive Ass: Uchiha_Cycliste: Baby_Hole: "You know damn well what I'm saying!"

Is that a real movie?
I'd totally watch that!

History of the World Part I. Fake trailers, kinda like in the Grindhouse movies.


thanks.
I have been meaning to watch it for ages. Initially I was gonna rent it from BB, but waited until I could find part two. ... sigh. By the time I figured out that only part 1 existed my local BB was gone.
 
2013-04-09 10:36:48 PM  

dabbletech: [www.forte.jor.br image 543x471]

Is it really possible to excise California and leave the rest?

/go for it


I'm finding it funny that such a phallic object could be called "no dong 2"
 
2013-04-09 10:40:24 PM  

pedobearapproved: Obama scraps Bush-era missile defense for new plan

missmeyet.jpg


Read your own link, genius. Obama's plan puts theater-level missile defense in place SOONER than Bush's plan to put missiles in Eastern Europe, and since it's largely ship-based, it can move to where the threat is. Like, I dunno, the Sea of Japan?
 
2013-04-09 10:41:46 PM  

texdent: Also shot down over the Sea of Japan
[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 255x192]


Too soon.

/well played
 
2013-04-09 10:42:33 PM  
OK, here's my read on the dealio:

Un is a reformer. The regime's usual pattern of oscillation between hand-extending and "bellicose rhetoric" is now occurring for somewhat unusual reasons: the "powers behind the throne" within the DPRK are trying to make Un as unpopular a figure internationally as his father was, and thereby set the tone of the relationship between North Korea and the world, assuring the regime's survival (so their reasoning goes). Un himself is a more-or-less reluctant figurehead, although he dare not let on to that.

I actually wish that Un could build a strong and independent power base of his own, so that he could purge the regime of disloyal factions trying to play him and his people as pawns in their own power games. He actually has the best interests of his people in mind, but right now he's more of a necessary evil for the real powers that be in North Korea than he is their leader. If he fails to do this, and fails to gain the trust of those disloyal, self-interested factions, he may well end up dead (blamed, of course, on Western assassins or some such).
 
2013-04-09 10:45:57 PM  
ABC news is reporting the NK missile is fueled and ready for raunch, and will be fired into the Pacific.

/lil Kim is a pussy
 
2013-04-09 10:48:06 PM  
Yes it's true. This man has No Dong.
 
2013-04-09 10:57:34 PM  
i1341.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-09 11:00:28 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: I didn't know weight mattered that much when submerged, I figured that it wouldn't affect buoyancy and that once they got it moving it would only take so much energy to keep it going. if weight does matter a lot then my idea is right out the window. I was thinking that with a skeleton crew and lots of batteries they might be able to avoid snorkeling by virtue of having enough power and using up very little O2, but I'll happily default to your opinion on this.
BMB was a great book. My father used to work for a defense company and can't tell me anything about the work, but one day he handed me that book and dogeared one of the pages, telling me that it's an interesting book and that "one of the pages had been dog-eared *wink*" Very cool.


Weight is all that matters when submerged, and i say that as someone who was qualified (provisionally) as a Chief of the Watch (the guy whose job it was to pump water around and out amongst other things). And not just weight but properly balanced weight. Down to a few hundred pounds when you are dead in the water and hovering. Speed is what makes that easier to control, faster means that you can use the hull as a plane and not have to worry so much about it. But you still want to be on top of it just in case something bad happens.

Submarines are unlike surface ships in that in a surface ship they start off with a rough plan when designing them. There is a lot of reserve buoyancy to play with as they go along and that means a lot of room to shift things around to balance them out. A submarine has to pretty much be completely designed and the weight distribution calculations made before a single hull section is formed. Lead ballasting can help to fine tune it (for example a regular 688 had about 100 tons of lead ballast in the front which is one of the reasons why the 688i could add vertical launch tubes later on and even then when on the surface they (the original 688's) have a noticeable upward pitch angle. That ate up almost all of the reserve buoyancy for that class which is one of the reasons why they had to build the Seawolf and Virgina classes).

That's why simply(?) adding batteries is a difficult task. Their extra weight not only needs to be compensated for but you also have to distribute that weight evenly before you add just one cell.

Fun story time. There is a ritual that new Diving Officers will face soon after they get qualified and stand the watch called a "Trim Party". A dozen or so guys (call it 160 lbs each) will tote a few TDU weights (about 12 lbs each) from the front to the back (and then back to the front) of the boat and get the Diving officer to order water being moved around. This messes with his head as he tries to figure out what is going on. The polite thing to do is after a few trips have the trim party walk through the control room at the end so he's in on it. The not so polite thing (for the less favored Diving Officers) to do is to simply disperse and leave him wondering what the hell just happened.
 
2013-04-09 11:03:25 PM  

Parallax: whistleridge: Killer Cars: whistleridge: Farking filter. I meant the Boobies that I made.

Okay, now I'm very intrigued.

In other news, even some original spellings of the words that rhyme with 'wurst host' get filtered :p

I'm sorry, I just had to check out your profile, figuring you'd have only been a member for a few months; a year tops.  <b>YOU'VE BEEN HERE NINE YEARS</b>, and it took you this long to find the shplurst shplost filter?!  That's... that's just... outstanding!

/sigh, I remember my first blurbst blosht.


You're both n0085
 
2013-04-09 11:03:27 PM  

mrexcess: OK, here's my read on the dealio:

Un is a reformer. The regime's usual pattern of oscillation between hand-extending and "bellicose rhetoric" is now occurring for somewhat unusual reasons: the "powers behind the throne" within the DPRK are trying to make Un as unpopular a figure internationally as his father was, and thereby set the tone of the relationship between North Korea and the world, assuring the regime's survival (so their reasoning goes). Un himself is a more-or-less reluctant figurehead, although he dare not let on to that.

I actually wish that Un could build a strong and independent power base of his own, so that he could purge the regime of disloyal factions trying to play him and his people as pawns in their own power games. He actually has the best interests of his people in mind, but right now he's more of a necessary evil for the real powers that be in North Korea than he is their leader. If he fails to do this, and fails to gain the trust of those disloyal, self-interested factions, he may well end up dead (blamed, of course, on Western assassins or some such).


He's a spoiled, fat 30-year-old legacy, son of a legacy. Chances of him doing anything right are not high.
 
2013-04-09 11:07:42 PM  

mbillips: He's a spoiled, fat 30-year-old legacy, son of a legacy. Chances of him doing anything right are not high.


He's the Dorfman of international politics.

www.gjsentinel.com

Someone oughta PS that hat onto Lil' Kim.
 
2013-04-09 11:13:34 PM  
And it looks like we have lift off.
 
2013-04-09 11:20:47 PM  
mbillips
He's a spoiled, fat 30-year-old legacy, son of a legacy. Chances of him doing anything right are not high.

Eh. To be honest I have a lot of sympathy for the dude. If there is one national leader who I would absolutely not want to change places with, its him. You see spoiled, I see relatively powerless young man growing up in the worst sort of gilded cage and now beset by the sort of dangerous and unrestrained palace intrigue that would give nightmares to a Medici.
 
2013-04-09 11:24:11 PM  
The funny part about The Kentucky Fried Movie is that there's a whole vignette about another reclusive despot, the much feared
DR KLAHN
my personal hero...
 
2013-04-09 11:28:55 PM  

mrexcess: Eh. To be honest I have a lot of sympathy for the dude.


Yeah... No. He didn't have to take those reigns of power. He could have walked into the nearest US embassy in Bern or wherever he was and quietly asked for asylum. He didn't. He's power addled and seems to think that he can get away with a lot of crap that he can't.

I may be wrong on some of that but he did have the chance to chuck it all and get out of the family business but he didn't take it. He chose power and (relative) riches over safety and not ruling one of the most despotic nations on earth. He made his own bed and now he lies in it.
 
2013-04-09 11:31:59 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: My only thought about this scenario is that it could be pulled off with a little submarine.


I hafta say it again? THIS KIND OF ATTACK IS ALMOST FUTILE.

Go here: http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html. Type in an address ("San Francisco, CA" or "Seoul" or Los Angeles") and a yield in kilotons ("7" = North Korea's latest test yield) and center the map as close as possible to the shore. Put it right up against ATT Park, even.

A few city blocks get vaporized. Many hundreds of thousands of windows shatter. And that's about it.

Try Tokyo - even more futile. A big bang, but a very big metropolis remains untouched. And now there are several hundred million very, very, very angry people with more firepower than God (at least as far as you're concerned, if you're Kim Jong Un)
 
2013-04-09 11:35:41 PM  

Radioactive Ass: Uchiha_Cycliste: I didn't know weight mattered that much when submerged, I figured that it wouldn't affect buoyancy and that once they got it moving it would only take so much energy to keep it going. if weight does matter a lot then my idea is right out the window. I was thinking that with a skeleton crew and lots of batteries they might be able to avoid snorkeling by virtue of having enough power and using up very little O2, but I'll happily default to your opinion on this.
BMB was a great book. My father used to work for a defense company and can't tell me anything about the work, but one day he handed me that book and dogeared one of the pages, telling me that it's an interesting book and that "one of the pages had been dog-eared *wink*" Very cool.

Weight is all that matters when submerged, and i say that as someone who was qualified (provisionally) as a Chief of the Watch (the guy whose job it was to pump water around and out amongst other things). And not just weight but properly balanced weight. Down to a few hundred pounds when you are dead in the water and hovering. Speed is what makes that easier to control, faster means that you can use the hull as a plane and not have to worry so much about it. But you still want to be on top of it just in case something bad happens.

Submarines are unlike surface ships in that in a surface ship they start off with a rough plan when designing them. There is a lot of reserve buoyancy to play with as they go along and that means a lot of room to shift things around to balance them out. A submarine has to pretty much be completely designed and the weight distribution calculations made before a single hull section is formed. Lead ballasting can help to fine tune it (for example a regular 688 had about 100 tons of lead ballast in the front which is one of the reasons why the 688i could add vertical launch tubes later on and even then when on the surface they (the original 688's) have a noticeable upward pitch angle. That ate ...


Heh,,,
Also, thanks for the crash course in Subs. I just learned a lot that was no where mentioned in BMB. And, obviously, you just poked a bunch of holes in my already sinking vessel of an idea.

\Hooray for mixed metaphors!
 
2013-04-09 11:37:44 PM  

StopLurkListen: Uchiha_Cycliste: My only thought about this scenario is that it could be pulled off with a little submarine.

I hafta say it again? THIS KIND OF ATTACK IS ALMOST FUTILE.

Go here: http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html. Type in an address ("San Francisco, CA" or "Seoul" or Los Angeles") and a yield in kilotons ("7" = North Korea's latest test yield) and center the map as close as possible to the shore. Put it right up against ATT Park, even.

A few city blocks get vaporized. Many hundreds of thousands of windows shatter. And that's about it.

Try Tokyo - even more futile. A big bang, but a very big metropolis remains untouched. And now there are several hundred million very, very, very angry people with more firepower than God (at least as far as you're concerned, if you're Kim Jong Un)


What I was considering was not the immediate damage from the blast but the long term consequences from the fallout and irradiated water. That big boom would throw many tons of instantly radioactive water into the air and all over the cities. It would screw things up pretty badly as we learned at Bikini Atol
 
2013-04-09 11:43:04 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: StopLurkListen: Uchiha_Cycliste: My only thought about this scenario is that it could be pulled off with a little submarine.

I hafta say it again? THIS KIND OF ATTACK IS ALMOST FUTILE.

Go here: http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html. Type in an address ("San Francisco, CA" or "Seoul" or Los Angeles") and a yield in kilotons ("7" = North Korea's latest test yield) and center the map as close as possible to the shore. Put it right up against ATT Park, even.

A few city blocks get vaporized. Many hundreds of thousands of windows shatter. And that's about it.

Try Tokyo - even more futile. A big bang, but a very big metropolis remains untouched. And now there are several hundred million very, very, very angry people with more firepower than God (at least as far as you're concerned, if you're Kim Jong Un)

What I was considering was not the immediate damage from the blast but the long term consequences from the fallout and irradiated water. That big boom would throw many tons of instantly radioactive water into the air and all over the cities. It would screw things up pretty badly as we learned at Bikini Atol


Fair enough, but you only need a "dirty bomb" to do that. And you still have the problem of overwhelming retaliation.
 
2013-04-09 11:43:41 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Also, thanks for the crash course in Subs. I just learned a lot that was no where mentioned in BMB. And, obviously, you just poked a bunch of holes in my already sinking vessel of an idea.


NP. There is a lot of information on this kind of stuff out there if you're willing to look. If you want some of the more technical details then go read US Submarines through 1945 and US Submarines after 1945  (google Books links). They cover the issues quite well although the Google Books versions leave out some pages of course.
 
2013-04-09 11:46:43 PM  

Infernalist: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: scubamage: I can't help but wonder if this is a feint to try and restructure their country by providing a media-friendly "blaze of glory" moment. Their officials know that with their current economy and standard of living, they aren't going to go anywhere but more downhill. Their isolationism has strangled them. Un is smart enough to know that he can't win and that their current system of government is unsustainable, but can't speak out because of the old guard in the military and older party members. So, he is driving their country into a battle they can't possibly win so their country is forcefully rebuilt and their people can thrive - the ones that live through it anyway.

Or, they have a dagger hidden at our back somewhere and we haven't figured out where. Those are the two scenarios I can think of.

Cyber attack and a high altitude EMP nuke? Maybe a couple of hundred English-speaking business-suited armed commandos landing in Seattle and disbursing throughout the country via bus and rail?


The whole thing is ludicrous, but this is the part that really has me rolling.

It's fairly easy for SK to pick up infiltrators and spies, due to how badly out of date they're dressed and how they gawk and stare at the most mundane of things.  Like a grocery store.

So, the concept of English speaking NKorean commandos sneaking into America is enough to have me giggling like I'm high.


HA! You won't be laughing when the entire country is under marital law due to 300 NK snipers taking out random people and the police can't catch them 'cause none of the cars and computers are working.

Hey, it's a better plot than the 2nd Red Dawn!
 
2013-04-09 11:50:00 PM  
Radioactive Ass
Yeah... No. He didn't have to take those reigns of power. He could have walked into the nearest US embassy in Bern or wherever he was and quietly asked for asylum. He didn't. He's power addled and seems to think that he can get away with a lot of crap that he can't.

Really? The only explanation you can think of for why he didn't defect and run away to for the non-guaranteed chance of a life of ignominy in the States is because he's "power addled"? Come on. Put yourself in his shoes. If he didn't take the job, who was going to? What would that have meant for his countrymen? Bear in mind that not everyone has the individualistic, "fark all y'all I got mine" mindset of your typical American that might make such an option more appealing... even if in his heart of hearts he views his father as something of the monster that we do, the family name and legacy would not be such an easy thing to surrender. And bear in mind that he's lived his entire life under the dominating thumb of his fathers' regime, and probably had/has a different conception of its reach and power than we do.

I may be wrong on some of that but he did have the chance to chuck it all and get out of the family business but he didn't take it. He chose power and (relative) riches over safety and not ruling one of the most despotic nations on earth. He made his own bed and now he lies in it.

I think you're wrong. To the extent that he has any choice in matters at all, which is far less than I think we in the West tend to perceive it to be, he's been doing what he perceives as best for his people, his family name, and the safety of himself and his own wife and offspring. I hope, sooner rather than later, he gets a handle on how his figurehead status comes with some actual political power, so he can harness that power to purge the self-interested and manipulative warmongers who are trying to steer him towards their designs and instead finally set a rational course towards some actual prosperity for himself and his people.
 
2013-04-09 11:51:40 PM  

UnspokenVoice: JustGetItRight: UnspokenVoice: Correct me if I'm mistaken but I don't think we can reliably shoot down artillery shells which is the main danger for Seoul. The rockets, which we can sometimes shoot down, are for more distant targets while Seoul is "nicely" within artillery range

Actually, we can reliably shoot down artillery shells - just not on the scale needed to defend an entire city.

Centurion C-RAM

Oh, and the 'their artillery would level Seoul' rumor's been debunked repeatedly in every NK thread over the last few years.  Most of their tubes don't have the range to hit anything other than the suburbs and those that do won't fire nearly enough rounds to do massive damage before being destroyed by US/RoK air strikes.

Interesting and thanks. There was a dude on CNN earlier today who postulated that Seoul was destined to take a significant amount of damage (I think that's verbatim) if they launched their artillery. As he was an "expert" in the field I'll defer to him instead of it being "debunked in a Fark thread" however. No offense intended or anything and he may well be mistaken but he's the "expert."

(I treat science the same way, deferring to the quantum physicists instead of the guys in the Geek tab as being the more credible source.) There's every chance that they're wrong, I accept that, but I've heard enough of them repeat the same general thing so I'll go with them.

Sadly that leaves me with this:

Yeah, it seems we can shoot some down but not enough to make much of a difference and they're still screwed. I don't think anyone believes that they can turn Seoul into a "sea of fire" but they're still pretty well screwed with (again, going from memory) the 170mm artillery. While it's certainly not leveling the city (which wasn't something I was worried about) it is still potentially a lot of damage and death. IIRC the 170mm was capable of ~45 miles which means people are potentially dead and property damaged. I don't think anyone credible believed NK's ...


Feel free to go with them, but remember CNN's paying him to say something dramatic sounding.

Seoul proper sits out of range of pretty much everything but that 170mm gun - and even then it is a stretch.  They're certainly capable of hitting the city with rockets but witht the case of both guns and rockets there are several things to consider.

First is logistics.  The idea that Seoul could be hammered is based on the premise that these weapons are delivering sustained fire at or near their maximum capability.  First, that isn't going to happen because they can't maintain the ammuntion supply and the weapons or people will break down.

Second is survivability.  The more they fire, the more they expose their location.    Between air strikes and counterbattery fire, they'll die in a fast and furious fashion.

Third is actual destructive potential versus target size.  Seoul's something like 250 square miles and those shells aren't going to destroy much more than a single family dwelling with one hit.

No matter what some talking head says on CNN, they simply cannot do it with conventional weapons.  Here's someone that lays it out pretty well:  http://blog.keia.org/2013/02/north-koreas-conventional-weapons-threat /
 
2013-04-09 11:52:07 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Madbassist1: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: AdolfOliverPanties: I plan on moving to Hawaii in a few years.  I personally give my blessing to wipe NK off the map if it's continued existence would screw up my new home.

I'm constantly amazed at the sociopathic self-centeredness of Fark's lefties. So you would trade the lives of 20+ million people for a nice pad in Hawaii?


AdolfOliverPanties: hubiestubert: I am more and more convinced that North Korea is really hoping for war, so that they can get rebuilt by the West. It takes them out of the Chinese pocket, it keeps the Russians out of their hair, and afterwards, Little Kim can be one of the cool kids at the UN table. At least one of the ones who got out of the dictator for life game, and retires someplace warm, with a lot of security paid for on someone else's dime...

Not a bad result for the little prick, if it works out exactly as he hopes.  It won't though.  Being rebuilt by the west is one thing, but that country is a barren wasteland, and not because of the Kim Jong family.  They can't grow anything.  They can't produce anything but weapons.  Sadly, they are very good at that.  We can't go in and rebuild and turn them into a thriving economy based on agriculture or business.  They have shiat for natural resources.


Idiot answering an idiot.

I'm also constantly amazed at the profound ignorance of Fark's lefties.

God help the world if you morons ever run things.

I'm constantly amazed at people who are hard right being so quick to attack statements that are obviously parody, satire and hyperbole. Oh wait, no I'm not. There's three types of hard right people on FARK. Idiots, trolls, and idiots who are trolls.

Ummmm...... you haven't been paying attention. (Hint: I'm not a right winger.)

well, everyone here ....


(1) Sorry, I didn't realize you had taken a survey.

...thinks you are. So there's that.

(2) That actually says more about them (and their lack of ability for subtle thinking), than me.
 
2013-04-09 11:54:32 PM  

Radioactive Ass: Uchiha_Cycliste: Also, thanks for the crash course in Subs. I just learned a lot that was no where mentioned in BMB. And, obviously, you just poked a bunch of holes in my already sinking vessel of an idea.

NP. There is a lot of information on this kind of stuff out there if you're willing to look. If you want some of the more technical details then go read US Submarines through 1945 and US Submarines after 1945  (google Books links). They cover the issues quite well although the Google Books versions leave out some pages of course.


thanks for the links, I'll check em out when I have the time.
 
2013-04-09 11:56:14 PM  

StopLurkListen: Uchiha_Cycliste: StopLurkListen: Uchiha_Cycliste: My only thought about this scenario is that it could be pulled off with a little submarine.

I hafta say it again? THIS KIND OF ATTACK IS ALMOST FUTILE.

Go here: http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html. Type in an address ("San Francisco, CA" or "Seoul" or Los Angeles") and a yield in kilotons ("7" = North Korea's latest test yield) and center the map as close as possible to the shore. Put it right up against ATT Park, even.

A few city blocks get vaporized. Many hundreds of thousands of windows shatter. And that's about it.

Try Tokyo - even more futile. A big bang, but a very big metropolis remains untouched. And now there are several hundred million very, very, very angry people with more firepower than God (at least as far as you're concerned, if you're Kim Jong Un)

What I was considering was not the immediate damage from the blast but the long term consequences from the fallout and irradiated water. That big boom would throw many tons of instantly radioactive water into the air and all over the cities. It would screw things up pretty badly as we learned at Bikini Atol

Fair enough, but you only need a "dirty bomb" to do that. And you still have the problem of overwhelming retaliation.


I guess then if you wanted to use the nuke's power too you would want to be under the bay bridge or over in West Oakland where all the shipping goes on. IIRC it's a huge commercial port, right? then you get the irradiated water and destroy commercial shipping, more bang for your buck
 
2013-04-09 11:57:27 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Uchiha_Cycliste: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Madbassist1: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: AdolfOliverPanties: I plan on moving to Hawaii in a few years.  I personally give my blessing to wipe NK off the map if it's continued existence would screw up my new home.

I'm constantly amazed at the sociopathic self-centeredness of Fark's lefties. So you would trade the lives of 20+ million people for a nice pad in Hawaii?


AdolfOliverPanties: hubiestubert: I am more and more convinced that North Korea is really hoping for war, so that they can get rebuilt by the West. It takes them out of the Chinese pocket, it keeps the Russians out of their hair, and afterwards, Little Kim can be one of the cool kids at the UN table. At least one of the ones who got out of the dictator for life game, and retires someplace warm, with a lot of security paid for on someone else's dime...

Not a bad result for the little prick, if it works out exactly as he hopes.  It won't though.  Being rebuilt by the west is one thing, but that country is a barren wasteland, and not because of the Kim Jong family.  They can't grow anything.  They can't produce anything but weapons.  Sadly, they are very good at that.  We can't go in and rebuild and turn them into a thriving economy based on agriculture or business.  They have shiat for natural resources.


Idiot answering an idiot.

I'm also constantly amazed at the profound ignorance of Fark's lefties.

God help the world if you morons ever run things.

I'm constantly amazed at people who are hard right being so quick to attack statements that are obviously parody, satire and hyperbole. Oh wait, no I'm not. There's three types of hard right people on FARK. Idiots, trolls, and idiots who are trolls.

Ummmm...... you haven't been paying attention. (Hint: I'm not a right winger.)

well, everyone here ....

(1) Sorry, I didn't realize you had taken a survey.

...thinks you are. So there's that.

(2) That actually says more about them (and their lack of abil ...


You might say you aren't right wing, but you definitely fall under the old saying, "if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck..."
 
2013-04-09 11:58:35 PM  

mrexcess: Really? The only explanation you can think of for why he didn't defect and run away to for the non-guaranteed chance of a life of ignominy in the States is because he's "power addled"? Come on. Put yourself in his shoes. If he didn't take the job, who was going to? What would that have meant for his countrymen? Bear in mind that not everyone has the individualistic, "fark all y'all I got mine" mindset of your typical American that might make such an option more appealing... even if in his heart of hearts he views his father as something of the monster that we do, the family name and legacy would not be such an easy thing to surrender. And bear in mind that he's lived his entire life under the dominating thumb of his fathers' regime, and probably had/has a different conception of its reach and power than we do.


He wasn't under the thumb of his countries regime when he was being taught in Switzerland. He had to have seen what he was facing and he chose to ignore it over not having that power. I will concede that he might have taken it out of a sense of misguided loyalty but that's it.

I think you're wrong. To the extent that he has any choice in matters at all, which is far less than I think we in the West tend to perceive it to be, he's been doing what he perceives as best for his people, his family name, and the safety of himself and his own wife and offspring. I hope, sooner rather than later, he gets a handle on how his figurehead status comes with some actual political power, so he can harness that power to purge the self-interested and manipulative warmongers who are trying to steer him towards their designs and instead finally set a rational course towards some actual prosperity for himself and his people.

He did have a choice. You may be correct that he is trying to do some Machiavellian maneuvering to get his country into a better place but he's screwing it up royally right now in my opinion.
 
2013-04-10 12:03:59 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: I guess then if you wanted to use the nuke's power too you would want to be under the bay bridge or over in West Oakland where all the shipping goes on. IIRC it's a huge commercial port, right? then you get the irradiated water and destroy commercial shipping, more bang for your buck


This. Well the port facilities anyway. But as I said, it's pretty much in the impossible scenario range.

/note that I live just ~3 miles south of San Francisco.
 
2013-04-10 12:06:23 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: thanks for the links, I'll check em out when I have the time.


There's some fairly dry stuff in there to slog through but it's where I usually point people to when they start to ask details.
 
2013-04-10 12:07:54 AM  

Radioactive Ass: Uchiha_Cycliste: I guess then if you wanted to use the nuke's power too you would want to be under the bay bridge or over in West Oakland where all the shipping goes on. IIRC it's a huge commercial port, right? then you get the irradiated water and destroy commercial shipping, more bang for your buck

This. Well the port facilities anyway. But as I said, it's pretty much in the impossible scenario range.

/note that I live just ~3 miles south of San Francisco.


So, So. SF? I'm in redwood.
good god! riding home sucked yesterday. Conveniently enough my avg power and average cadence were the same in both directions (201 watts and 92 rpm, respectively) but to work my avg. speed was 20.1 and home it was 16. It SUCKED.. or more accurately, it Blew =3

\45mi round trip.
 
2013-04-10 12:09:56 AM  

Radioactive Ass: Uchiha_Cycliste: thanks for the links, I'll check em out when I have the time.

There's some fairly dry stuff in there to slog through but it's where I usually point people to when they start to ask details.


I know I also read a book a while ago about The Sub sinking that encouraged Swede Mosman to use the diving bell for the first time. I want to say the sub was the Scorpion, but my memory is really hazy on a lot of the details. =( With that pitifully small level of detail, can you tell me the book I read?
 
2013-04-10 12:13:33 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: So, So. SF? I'm in redwood.


DC near Seaton. I'm totally "Safe" if someone nukes The City waterfront what with SBM in the way and how the winds blow. I'm totally farked if the San Andreas does another 1906 though. I;m something like a mile or so away from that much more likely scenario (Mussel Rock epicenter).
 
2013-04-10 12:20:13 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Radioactive Ass: Uchiha_Cycliste: thanks for the links, I'll check em out when I have the time.

There's some fairly dry stuff in there to slog through but it's where I usually point people to when they start to ask details.

I know I also read a book a while ago about The Sub sinking that encouraged Swede Mosman to use the diving bell for the first time. I want to say the sub was the Scorpion, but my memory is really hazy on a lot of the details. =( With that pitifully small level of detail, can you tell me the book I read?


Sorry, no. The Scorpion was well after (by decades even) the diving bell was first used in regards to submarine search or rescue. I think that it was the Squalus when it was first used in that regard. If you live in RWC there used to be one sitting on the side of the road as you approached the Century Movie Complex west of 280. They got rid of it in the mid-90's though. Sold for scrap I do believe.
 
2013-04-10 12:22:51 AM  

Radioactive Ass: Uchiha_Cycliste: Radioactive Ass: Uchiha_Cycliste: thanks for the links, I'll check em out when I have the time.

There's some fairly dry stuff in there to slog through but it's where I usually point people to when they start to ask details.

I know I also read a book a while ago about The Sub sinking that encouraged Swede Mosman to use the diving bell for the first time. I want to say the sub was the Scorpion, but my memory is really hazy on a lot of the details. =( With that pitifully small level of detail, can you tell me the book I read?

Sorry, no. The Scorpion was well after (by decades even) the diving bell was first used in regards to submarine search or rescue. I think that it was the Squalus when it was first used in that regard. If you live in RWC there used to be one sitting on the side of the road as you approached the Century Movie Complex west of 280. They got rid of it in the mid-90's though. Sold for scrap I do believe.


Must have been the Squalus then. ...quick google search.
Yup! the terrible hours. thanks!
 
2013-04-10 12:25:19 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: StopLurkListen: Fair enough, but you only need a "dirty bomb" to do that. And you still have the problem of overwhelming retaliation.

I guess then if you wanted to use the nuke's power too you would want to be under the bay bridge or over in West Oakland where all the shipping goes on. IIRC it's a huge commercial port, right? then you get the irradiated water and destroy commercial shipping, more bang for your buck


Blowing up a bridge would do what for North Korea? Other than causing a transportation headache for commuters it's not a very effective thing to attack. And a port is probably a good place to attack, from our point of view - lots and lots of empty space. They're really just supersized parking lots. I'm trying to get the point across that those North Korean warheads are really low yield. They're weaker than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs. You're not going to level a city with them.

I don't know what "irradiated water" means. Water doesn't become radioactive, the ash is. Water blocks radiation. If there's radioactive ash in the water, it will eventually sink and the radiation would be shielded by the water.

If your aim is to scatter radioactive materials, using a nuke kinda works against you. The superheated column of air lifts most of the ash up into the stratosphere. Unless you ("you" meaning Kim Jong Un) just want to raise the global background radiation... then why not set off bombs in Yongbyon anyway? No delivery plot needed.
 
2013-04-10 12:26:20 AM  

Walker: Japan ain't gonna do sh*t. North Korea has launched missiles over them before and they didn't do sh*t.


New government, new possibilities
 
2013-04-10 12:26:45 AM  
Has anyone mentioned that the "article" makes no mention of any response from Japan, and that as such the headline is false and misleading?
 
2013-04-10 12:27:59 AM  

Radioactive Ass: Uchiha_Cycliste: So, So. SF? I'm in redwood.

DC near Seaton. I'm totally "Safe" if someone nukes The City waterfront what with SBM in the way and how the winds blow. I'm totally farked if the San Andreas does another 1906 though. I;m something like a mile or so away from that much more likely scenario (Mussel Rock epicenter).


I've heard tell that Crystal Springs is entirely thanks to the San Andreas. that it sits on the fault and that there is a big indention there because of the fault line. I'm only a few miles from it myself. But thankfully I rent. my plan is to buy a place in the city after the big one hits and everything built after the 1906 is destroyed.

Unrelated. The Agnews developmental center has a spot with a bunch of information about the "The GreatAsylum for theInsane" that used to be there, on one of the plaques it talks about the 1905 earthquake, "which resulted in the deaths of 97 patients and  stuff" lulz
 
2013-04-10 12:32:44 AM  

reubendaley: Has anyone mentioned that the "article" makes no mention of any response from Japan, and that as such the headline is false and misleading?


I felt that was a given.
 
2013-04-10 12:37:03 AM  

StopLurkListen: Uchiha_Cycliste: StopLurkListen: Fair enough, but you only need a "dirty bomb" to do that. And you still have the problem of overwhelming retaliation.

I guess then if you wanted to use the nuke's power too you would want to be under the bay bridge or over in West Oakland where all the shipping goes on. IIRC it's a huge commercial port, right? then you get the irradiated water and destroy commercial shipping, more bang for your buck

Blowing up a bridge would do what for North Korea? Other than causing a transportation headache for commuters it's not a very effective thing to attack. And a port is probably a good place to attack, from our point of view - lots and lots of empty space. They're really just supersized parking lots. I'm trying to get the point across that those North Korean warheads are really low yield. They're weaker than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs. You're not going to level a city with them.

I don't know what "irradiated water" means. Water doesn't become radioactive, the ash is. Water blocks radiation. If there's radioactive ash in the water, it will eventually sink and the radiation would be shielded by the water.

If your aim is to scatter radioactive materials, using a nuke kinda works against you. The superheated column of air lifts most of the ash up into the stratosphere. Unless you ("you" meaning Kim Jong Un) just want to raise the global background radiation... then why not set off bombs in Yongbyon anyway? No delivery plot needed.


I don't know what they get out of it
they said they want to nuke major cities, I'm trying to hepl them figure out how to actually get it done.  Also, I thought one of the unexpected effects from Operation Crossroads was that all the water that fell down after the blasts was radioactive as all hell. Covered the ships they had placed for the tests.
 
Displayed 50 of 535 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report