Illiterate headline is illiterate.

Esc7: Yes this is indeed an ideological battle for the soul of the party.

*rolls eyes*

BSBSVR

fta It would be the first increase in the cigarette tax since 2008 and the first hike in the gas tax since 1991.

I'm outraged?

I am waiting with baited breath for the inevitable collapse of the Demcratic Party this will cause.

They're going up on T fare again aren't they? FARKING ASSHOLES!

impaler: I think subby was just being snarky concerned

cman: When you pull out the Maine card saying "Hey at least our gas taxes are still lower than them", you have already lost your argument

Even if the argument is that the gas tax hike (the first since 1991) isn't destructive or unprecedented?

FarkedOver: They're going up on T fare again aren't they? FARKING ASSHOLES!

They absolutely need to. The T is running massive deficits.
Ridership continued to increase even after the recent bump in prices.
Clearly it is still underpriced.

Cubicle Jockey: FarkedOver: They're going up on T fare again aren't they? FARKING ASSHOLES!

They absolutely need to. The T is running massive deficits.
Ridership continued to increase even after the recent bump in prices.
Clearly it is still underpriced.

ARE YOU FARKING KIDDING!? I pay $228 a month now for T fare..... I have to pay to go make someone else rich off my labor? The T should be farking free.

FarkedOver: Cubicle Jockey: FarkedOver: They're going up on T fare again aren't they? FARKING ASSHOLES!

They absolutely need to. The T is running massive deficits.
Ridership continued to increase even after the recent bump in prices.
Clearly it is still underpriced.

ARE YOU FARKING KIDDING!? I pay $228 a month now for T fare..... I have to pay to go make someone else rich off my labor? The T should be farking free.

Economic super genius.

Cubicle Jockey: They absolutely need to. The T is running massive deficits.
Ridership continued to increase even after the recent bump in prices.
Clearly it is still underpriced.

Now THAT'S what I call sarcasm!

FarkedOver: Cubicle Jockey: FarkedOver: They're going up on T fare again aren't they? FARKING ASSHOLES!

They absolutely need to. The T is running massive deficits.
Ridership continued to increase even after the recent bump in prices.
Clearly it is still underpriced.

ARE YOU FARKING KIDDING!? I pay $228 a month now for T fare..... I have to pay to go make someone else rich off my labor? The T should be farking free.

Whatever you make should be free too! I shouldn't have to pay to make you rich off my labor!

jigger: Economic super genius.

Would it be that bad for business?  More people able to come in town and spend their money.  Workers having more money to spend whilst in town.

FarkedOver: Cubicle Jockey: FarkedOver: They're going up on T fare again aren't they? FARKING ASSHOLES!

They absolutely need to. The T is running massive deficits.
Ridership continued to increase even after the recent bump in prices.
Clearly it is still underpriced.

ARE YOU FARKING KIDDING!? I pay $228 a month now for T fare..... I have to pay to go make someone else rich off my labor? The T should be farking free.

Aren't monthly passes like $70?  They were when I left (August 2012).  Compared to the $800/month I spend between car payment, insurance, and gas, that's a nice $700/month profit.

/Of course, car insurance is $250/month because 20 year old males crash their cars.

cman: When you pull out the Maine card saying "Hey at least our gas taxes are still lower than them", you have already lost your argument

I don't know. "We suck less" fits well on a bumper sticker.

FarkedOver: jigger: Economic super genius.

Would it be that bad for business?  More people able to come in town and spend their money.  Workers having more money to spend whilst in town.

Who makes up the foregone revenue to the MBTA?

Well, those of us down here on the South Coast sure would like to have a rail connection to Boston so we can biatch about fare increases, too...

The state already spent a ton of money improving tracks and putting in space for commuter stations in both Fall River and New Bedford, so why not just finish the freakin' job, get the trains running, give us an efficient, cheap way to get to Boston? Lots of folks down here will be jumping to get jobs up in Boston (we have one of the highest unemployment rates in the State here in Fall River). Hell, 24 is jammed most days with folks going up to work in Boston. Why not clear up some of that traffic and pollution?

Out here in WMass, we don't have the T or the Big Dig, but we get to pay for it.  Fark Deval, fark Boston politics.

The actual issue is about whether to raise revenue on the backs of the poor or the rich.  I far prefer the governor's plan.

/Sales taxes are regressive as heck

WinoRhino: Cubicle Jockey: They absolutely need to. The T is running massive deficits.
Ridership continued to increase even after the recent bump in prices.
Clearly it is still underpriced.

Now THAT'S what I call sarcasm!


Not in the slightest. The MBTA is one of the best bargains in the country for the service provided

.meyerkev: ARE YOU FARKING KIDDING!? I pay $228 a month now for T fare..... I have to pay to go make someone else rich off my labor? The T should be farking free.

Aren't monthly passes like $70? They were when I left (August 2012). Compared to the $800/month I spend between car payment, insurance, and gas, that's a nice $700/month profit.

He's a zone 4 commuter rail passenger. The dark orange area below.

And compared to what he would be paying in gas and parking, he is indeed saving a huge amount.

http://boston.bestparking.com/

birdboy2000: The actual issue is about whether to raise revenue on the backs of the poor or the rich.  I far prefer the governor's plan.

/Sales taxes are regressive as heck

This.

I have a serious problem with the attitude of "we haven't raised that tax in five years, so it's long overdue."  Uh, no.  How about governments learn to live within our means?  If you only raise taxes every five years, eventually you tax people to death.

OgreMagi: I have a serious problem with the attitude of "we haven't raised that tax in five years, so it's long overdue."  Uh, no.  How about governments learn to live within our means?  If you only raise taxes every five years, eventually you tax people to death.

Well, there's a bunch of things happening.

1) Labor costs and materials are going up, making programs more expensive.
2) (And this is the big one) All those amazing pensions that got negotiated years ago now actually have to get paid, and there is no money to do so.
3) Once you create a government program, it is difficult at best to get rid of it.

So since the size of government is increasing, they need to increase taxes (or figure out how to deal with #2 and #3, which is unlikely to happen in a Democratic state).  And if they're going to increase taxes, it might as well be those taxes they haven't raised in a bit.

meyerkev: OgreMagi: I have a serious problem with the attitude of "we haven't raised that tax in five years, so it's long overdue."  Uh, no.  How about governments learn to live within our means?  If you only raise taxes every five years, eventually you tax people to death.

Well, there's a bunch of things happening.

1) Labor costs and materials are going up, making programs more expensive.
2) (And this is the big one) All those amazing pensions that got negotiated years ago now actually have to get paid, and there is no money to do so.
3) Once you create a government program, it is difficult at best to get rid of it.

So since the size of government is increasing, they need to increase taxes (or figure out how to deal with #2 and #3, which is unlikely to happen in a Democratic state).  And if they're going to increase taxes, it might as well be those taxes they haven't raised in a bit.

Which really points out the underlying problem.  Government growing like "the blob" until it consumes everything.  This is not a good thing.

OgreMagi: I have a serious problem with the attitude of "we haven't raised that tax in five years, so it's long overdue."  Uh, no.  How about governments learn to live within our means?  If you only raise taxes every five years, eventually you tax people to death.

Never heard of inflation, eh?

cameroncrazy1984: OgreMagi: I have a serious problem with the attitude of "we haven't raised that tax in five years, so it's long overdue."  Uh, no.  How about governments learn to live within our means?  If you only raise taxes every five years, eventually you tax people to death.

Never heard of inflation, eh?

Yes, and I see you don't know how it works.

OgreMagi: cameroncrazy1984: OgreMagi: I have a serious problem with the attitude of "we haven't raised that tax in five years, so it's long overdue."  Uh, no.  How about governments learn to live within our means?  If you only raise taxes every five years, eventually you tax people to death.

Never heard of inflation, eh?

Yes, and I see you don't know how it works.

This.  It's like me complaining that tipping has gone from 15% to 25-30% in my lifetime, and you saying that it has to do with the higher cost of the food.

/The only case where I'm willing to buy inflation is with gas taxes.  And that's less a function of price and more a function of higher MPG.
//In fact, since most taxes are progressive per dollar taxed, if anything inflation should make taxes go down.

Lord_Baull: I am waiting with baited breath

Eww.