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(The New York Times)   Hey students, now teachers know when you're done reading your E-books, or if you've read them at all. Think of it as Big Brother but in a good way, it's for your own good   (nytimes.com) divider line 52
    More: Interesting, school of business, Stony Brook University, McGraw-Hill  
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3309 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Apr 2013 at 9:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-09 09:43:51 AM
I can't remember the last time a story like this started with "We're doing this with evil intentions."
 
2013-04-09 09:44:13 AM
And?
 
2013-04-09 09:48:36 AM

Raharu: And?


Nice troll. I'll bet you'll get a few hits.
 
2013-04-09 09:48:40 AM
Next thing you know, they're going to be monitoring exams to make sure that no one cheats! What's this world coming to???

Where am I, Russia???
 
2013-04-09 09:48:51 AM
it's for your own good

Isn't it always?
 
2013-04-09 09:50:03 AM

Raharu: And?


It's not like teachers haven't always asked questions about readings that were designed to expose students who hadn't read.  This will change nothing.  Students will still read as little as possible to get by, and the clever students will be able to BS their way through class like we all did, and the teachers' pets will still read every word just like always, and the slackers will STILL not care if they get bad grades.

Literally nothing about school will change because of this.
 
2013-04-09 09:51:00 AM
"It's Big Brother, sort of, but with a good intent," said Tracy Hurley, the dean of the school of business.

Sounds like the same thing I hear when I work at a big business that can afford to be Big Brother. I make sure not to have a real name Facebook (cept for one as a decoy, got to fill it up a bit though) because of "good intentioned Big Brother".
 
2013-04-09 09:51:11 AM
I'm pretty sure most teachers can tell which students read the book anyways.
 
2013-04-09 09:52:30 AM
Adrian Guardia, a Texas A&M instructor in management, took notice the other day of a student who was apparently doing well. His quiz grades were solid, and so was what CourseSmart calls his "engagement index." But Mr. Guardia also saw something else: that the student had opened his textbook only once.

So he's either cheating, or the textbook is worthless. I'm guessing the textbook is worthless.

"It was one of those aha moments," said Mr. Guardia... I knew I had to reach out to him to discuss his studying habits."

Why? If he's doing well in the class, obviously his studying habits are working for him. How about reaching out to the students that are having real problems.
 
2013-04-09 09:53:34 AM
At the university level, who gives a damn who's reading the text?  They are paying to be there and they are grown adults. I would think they could figure out how best to study by themselves.  Now high school or elementary school I would understand.
 
2013-04-09 09:53:40 AM
What if I already read it and don't care to read it again?
 
2013-04-09 09:54:37 AM

WhippingBoy: Next thing you know, they're going to be monitoring exams to make sure that no one cheats! What's this world coming to???

Where am I, Russia???


Book reads YOU.

bransontraveloffice.com
 
2013-04-09 09:55:20 AM
Bah. I always read every reading assignment I was supposed to so all these other kids should too. It's about time they're held accountable. Although, I will say I don't get the headline. What's the connection between this story and reality TV?
 
2013-04-09 09:55:46 AM
Somebody should parent these kids, you know the meatbots that made them won't do it.
 
2013-04-09 09:57:19 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Adrian Guardia, a Texas A&M instructor in management, took notice the other day of a student who was apparently doing well. His quiz grades were solid, and so was what CourseSmart calls his "engagement index." But Mr. Guardia also saw something else: that the student had opened his textbook only once.

So he's either cheating, or the textbook is worthless. I'm guessing the textbook is worthless.

"It was one of those aha moments," said Mr. Guardia... I knew I had to reach out to him to discuss his studying habits."

Why? If he's doing well in the class, obviously his studying habits are working for him. How about reaching out to the students that are having real problems.


No kidding.  I never opened my Physics textbook in college.  It was still wrapped in plastic at the end of the semester and I did well.  The lectures were excellent and the tests were designed to determine whether you understood the concepts that were being presented, not whether you had memorized the textbook.
 
2013-04-09 09:57:44 AM

ScouserDuck: Bah. I always read every reading assignment I was supposed to so all these other kids should too. It's about time they're held accountable. Although, I will say I don't get the headline. What's the connection between this story and reality TV?


Please be trolling.  Please.
 
2013-04-09 09:58:44 AM
I see a market for apps to counter these Orwellian strategies. Just fire up the app that flips through The Odyssey at 2 ppm. Wanna (not) read faster? Set it to 3 ppm.

"A million dollars Jerry! A million dollars!"
 
2013-04-09 09:59:04 AM
"Maybe the course is too easy and I need to challenge them a bit more," Mr. Guardia said. "Or maybe the textbooks are not as good as I thought."

UTFA.

/Last sentence of the article?  Damn, talk about "burying the lead!"
 
2013-04-09 10:00:07 AM
Heh.  I just had a Snow Crash flashback to whatshername's mom working for the government and tailoring her reading fingerprint to conform with standard reading patterns.
 
2013-04-09 10:02:11 AM
This isn't new.

If your school uses Blackboard or Desire2Learn as a learning management system, your instructor can see how often you log in, how much time you spend looking at the material they have posted for you to read., whether you are participating in the integrated forums and how often you are replying to others in the class, etc...
 
2013-04-09 10:02:19 AM
Used to work at nuclear fuel processing facility and their were safety texts people had to read annually.

People would just click "read" without reading it so they put a timer on it that would give them a nasty message if they clicked read in under 5 minutes.

So people would go grab coffee and chat whilst they waited for timer to hit 5 minutes.

People will always try to cheat the system.

Kids will play video games and occasionally click next page.
 
2013-04-09 10:02:27 AM
It sounds like the textbook industry trying to jump on and play down a metric that could show that that textbooks don't mean a damn and that their prices cannot possibly be justified.  FYI  If you have a good instructor, you will never need a textbook.  Also, if you have a sh*tty instructor, that book isn't going to help you unless you mentally cut that useless meat sack of a professor loose and learn on your own.
 
2013-04-09 10:04:40 AM
Yep, they do this at Syracuse now with Blackboard, as I found out this semester when the prof said she noticed 90% of the class hadn't done the assigned readings. Now this is in a 300 level course at a pretty good university, so I think it's a bit of a reality check for professors about the way professors expect their students to study (Little bits at a time as assigned before coming to class), and how they actually do study (Cramming in a panic before finals week).
 
2013-04-09 10:04:54 AM
Well, teacher, it's like this. I gots the hard copy version of dat book "English Studies for American Students". It's da same book dat my fodder had when he was attending the school here. So I was readin' dat book and studyin' de grammars like yews told me to. I was jus' using dat book with da pages. Not the book with the lectricity.
 
2013-04-09 10:07:51 AM
The vast majority of classes in undergrad often seem to be:

1.  You can skip class and read the textbook, and pass easily.
2.  You can go to class, listen to the prof rehash the textbook, and pass easily.

This is always true if the prof is the author of the textbook, since at that point the textbook is just the prof's lecture notes in prose form.

Every so often you run into a prof who actually is engaged enough with this lesson plans that they use the textbook/readings to lay foundation and then build on it in class in ways not covered in the text.  Every prof will tell you they do this, but only a few truly do.
 
2013-04-09 10:10:12 AM
They can't tell if students read. They can only tell if the student had the appropriate files open for specified periods of time. Of course I didn't read the article, so maybe they are using eye movement imaging or cortical electrodes.
 
2013-04-09 10:12:05 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Adrian Guardia, a Texas A&M instructor in management, took notice the other day of a student who was apparently doing well. His quiz grades were solid, and so was what CourseSmart calls his "engagement index." But Mr. Guardia also saw something else: that the student had opened his textbook only once.

So he's either cheating, or the textbook is worthless. I'm guessing the textbook is worthless.

"It was one of those aha moments," said Mr. Guardia... I knew I had to reach out to him to discuss his studying habits."

Why? If he's doing well in the class, obviously his studying habits are working for him.


Or the person has excellent (short term) memorisation skills. I know I got through school that way. It did bite me in the ass (not too hard because nothing really changed, just started to write summaries which I then ignored) during university courses because I never learned to study or develop study habits.

How about reaching out to the students that are having real problems.

Having a 10 minute discussion at the end of the day with someone who is already doing reasonably well but could do better isn't really all that detrimental to the people who are already struggling.
 
2013-04-09 10:14:33 AM
This time we really are thinking of the children
 
2013-04-09 10:15:01 AM

HMS_Blinkin: Raharu: And?

It's not like teachers haven't always asked questions about readings that were designed to expose students who hadn't read.  This will change nothing.  Students will still read as little as possible to get by, and the clever students will be able to BS their way through class like we all did,


My book report on "Silas Marner" set the BS standard so high that I have sympathy for the kids today who try and measure up to it. I'm a bit surprised that I've yet to receive a Pulitzer, it takes considerable skill to write a report on a book one hasn't even opened. I rocked the Casbah, and my dad was glowing when I brought home that report card with a "C" in literature.
 
2013-04-09 10:15:36 AM

haws83: At the university level, who gives a damn who's reading the text?  They are paying to be there and they are grown adults. I would think they could figure out how best to study by themselves.  Now high school or elementary school I would understand.


Got to agree. There are courses you live and die on the book, but there are courses where the book is a waste of space and ink.

It never really changes. I've books even now in residency that I'm wearing out- the Mont Reid Surgical Handbook is a lifesaver- but there are more than a few that I never open unless I need that one bit of information they have.
 
2013-04-09 10:21:49 AM
But is it for The Greater Good?
 
2013-04-09 10:22:48 AM
If you can't teach them to think, you can at least make sure they're obedient little cogs.
 
2013-04-09 10:24:16 AM
Once you actually reach higher-education, you're on your own.  Your teachers shouldn't have to babysit you into reading all the material intently, highlighting the passages that are important, etc.  You're an adult now, and if you choose to be lazy and fail, that's your prerogative.

Right now, I teach composition for freshman international students at the U of Illinois, and if they don't do the assignments I give them, they get a 0.  Plain and simple.  When that happens for the first time in a semester, that student realizes I'm serious about their grades, and it usually shapes them up.
 
2013-04-09 10:25:10 AM

Dog Welder: But is it for The Greater Good?


The greater good.
 
2013-04-09 10:29:41 AM
FTFA"Maybe the course is too easy and I need to challenge them a bit more," Mr. Guardia said. "Or maybe the textbooks are not as good as I thought."

Yes.
 
2013-04-09 10:31:48 AM
"It's Big Brother, sort of, but with a good intent,"

The good intent being getting you accustomed to being monitored all the time and accepting it.

Your probably think those RFID cards they want teenagers to wear at school are for some other purpose as well.
 
2013-04-09 10:46:01 AM
Kinda like Blizzard knows when you are done reading through their EULA by click the scrollbar to the left until you get past all of the legaleze that I know no one reads?
 
2013-04-09 10:57:46 AM
So let me see if I understand this.

Students today are paying for textbooks.
They are probably being forced to pay a premium to buy them in ebook form.
And just to reward them for it, they get to voluntarily give their professors the right to monitor their reading activities.

And as a wonderful coup de grace, they probably can't even recoup ten bucks of their investment at the end of the term, because they have only bought a license to the book and not the book itself.  Then to make it worse, if they are part of the one percent who hold onto their books as reference manuals, then they will probably lose it later when they switch devices due to DRM.
 
2013-04-09 11:24:49 AM
page turning app in 3, 2,...
 
2013-04-09 11:30:07 AM

NorthernMT: So let me see if I understand this.

Students today are paying for textbooks.
They are probably being forced to pay a premium to buy them in ebook form.
And just to reward them for it, they get to voluntarily give their professors the right to monitor their reading activities.

And as a wonderful coup de grace, they probably can't even recoup ten bucks of their investment at the end of the term, because they have only bought a license to the book and not the book itself.  Then to make it worse, if they are part of the one percent who hold onto their books as reference manuals, then they will probably lose it later when they switch devices due to DRM.


Calibre. If I purchase a book, it gets a run through this program and stored in a folder on my computer.
 
2013-04-09 11:31:16 AM
I guess this episode of "South Park" is apropos to the thread re: NOT reading the EULA:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s15e01-humancentipad
 
2013-04-09 12:02:30 PM
About this: What could possibly go right?
 
2013-04-09 12:53:05 PM
This does not differentiate between the students who can skim the material and have it down and the students who can read it over and over and highlight the shiat out of it and still not get it.

What was wrong with comprehension questions?
 
2013-04-09 12:58:04 PM
I hate to say this, but I never read a single book assigned to me in my entire run of high school English class. Just followed the in class discussion on each chapter and bullshiatted my way through the exams. I also used to make up books for my book reports. It wasn't because I didn't read books recreationally, I loved sci-fi and fantasy. I just found it really thrilling to make up an author and a novel and get away with it. Usually our book reports came in threes so I'd write one book report on a book I'd actually read, and then I'd write two book reports on phony books by imaginary authors.

I don't think I'd be able to get away with that now a days with the internet. But as a small town boy if you had a good imagination you could get away with it no problem.
 
2013-04-09 01:13:49 PM
Reminds me of the Feds in "Snow Crash" where they set a time allotted to read a memo and gave you a performance review based on how long it took you to read the memo.

My mother is a teacher. If her workflow is any indication, then this has no practical applications. Teachers are too busy as it is without having to monitor WHEN students finish their books. And really, in the broad scheme of things, does it really matter as long as they get the work done?
 
2013-04-09 01:17:59 PM

HMS_Blinkin: Literally nothing about school will change because of this.


Except the kids will grow up thinking that having their every move tracked is normal.
 
2013-04-09 01:21:55 PM
Oh, and I'll just leave this here: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
 
2013-04-09 01:26:51 PM

ScouserDuck: Dog Welder: But is it for The Greater Good?

The greater good.


historc.files.wordpress.com

/Shut it!
 
2013-04-09 02:16:07 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Adrian Guardia, a Texas A&M instructor in management, took notice the other day of a student who was apparently doing well. His quiz grades were solid, and so was what CourseSmart calls his "engagement index." But Mr. Guardia also saw something else: that the student had opened his textbook only once.

So he's either cheating, or the textbook is worthless. I'm guessing the textbook is worthless.

"It was one of those aha moments," said Mr. Guardia... I knew I had to reach out to him to discuss his studying habits."

Why? If he's doing well in the class, obviously his studying habits are working for him. How about reaching out to the students that are having real problems.


I had plenty of classes in which I did well and never cracked the book. Chiefly general ed stuff inhabited by the 75% of students who were lamebrains and incapable of thinking logically or structuring a coherent sentence. A talking to about my study habits like he's proposing would have resulted in me writing a script that opened the book and paged thru it for hours on end until it looked like my every waking hour was spent reading it. Let's see what he'd make of that.
 
2013-04-09 05:22:25 PM
So now kids will have to click a link on another tab once in a while when they waste time on Facebook?
 
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