Ah, but can subby learn from it is present? We need an "apostrophe lock" key on keyboards.

sammyk: cman: sammyk: I will never buy any device or software that REQUIRES an internet connection. Ever. The end.

What about a Roku?

Stop being obtuse. The Rokus' core functionality relies on a network connection. You are old enough to know the difference.

Well internally I'm sure MS considers the core functionality of the XBox720 its always on ability, so it can track everything you do, pop up ads in game, etc.  Not that they'll admit that.

/I'm sure in a generation or two the Kinect will be able to determine when you're debating what takeout to order with your friends and pop up ads for the local pizza place
//damnit now I want pizza for lunch

sammyk: I will never buy any device or software that REQUIRES an internet connection. Ever. The end.

Total fark is offline?

sammyk: cman: sammyk: I will never buy any device or software that REQUIRES an internet connection. Ever. The end.

What about a Roku?

Stop being obtuse. The Rokus' core functionality relies on a network connection. You are old enough to know the difference.

Isn't the Xbox's core functionality also network based? Namely, streaming annoying ads with the audio full blast when you accidentally highlight the tile.

pag1107: I'm glad I'm old, it's a good excuse to never buy a video game system again.

Come join me on my lawn.

cman: sammyk: I will never buy any device or software that REQUIRES an internet connection. Ever. The end.

What about a Roku?

I actually bought a Roku player and after plugging it in, discovered that I had to create a Roku account.  WTF.  Ok, so after creating the account, I discovered that if I wanted to play movie files, I would have to download the player from Roku.  WTF 2.  Ok, so downloaded the file and then tried to run the movies that I had.  Nope, not compatible.  OMGWTFBBQ.

/returned the POS
//still using my 5+ year old WDTV Live that will play almost every damn thing I throw at it.

Looks like a PS4 for me. Or is there a fatal flaw with that, too?

Meh, I got a Steam account last year and haven't bought an Xbox or PS3 title since. From my perspective consoles offer nothing that you can't get on PC (other than the odd exclusive), plus a PC is more versatile.

Loved my Xbox and PS, but their time has past.

Oddly enough, I don't think this is the next XBox's biggest problem. MS is putting more time and effort into turning their next console into a multimedia device than a gaming device. TV, movies, sports, mma, streaming... but of course access to all this will be subscription based. It's like they don't realize most TVs have these abilities for free... or that Sony tried this with the PS3 for free, which didn't work.
Can't wait for E3 so we get more concrete data from both MS and Sony, but shying away from gaming when you're trying to sell a gaming console couldn't be more counterproductive if they tried. I guess everyone else but them figured that out.

So console makers are finally admitting that PCs are the superior platform due to their modularity and common architectures and so are switching to essentially marketing a pared down PC with locked in hardware that is obsolete the moment it hits the shelves.  Fine with me, maybe then developers can start making games with proper interfaces again instead of shiattasticly retrofitted console ports.

I really hate the way so many game companies have decided that everybody always wants to play games with everybody else.

Other people are mostly assholes. That's part of the reason I like video games, to get away from the other people for awhile. No, I don't want to trade resources with your city. No, I don't want to compare e-peens on the achievement board. No, I don't care what other people are playing or doing or watching.... I just want to farking play a video game without having to worry about whether or not Microsoft was able to keep the datacenter running today or Comcast was able to keep my connection up.

Stop trying to force me to be social just so you have an excuse for your DRM and marketing schemes, assholes.

WhippingBoy: Looks like a PS4 for me. Or is there a fatal flaw with that, too?

Didn't someone leak PS4 was going towards always online requirement? I may be mistaken, but I thought a month back or so some article got green lit.

The "always on" argument is a good one, this one....not so much.   Prior to the PS2 no consoles were backward compatible without an extra piece of hardware that acted as an emulator AND was designed to fit the cartidges.

Even the Xbox360 had this issue, not every game was ported over from the Xbox to the 360, only the top titles.  There is even a handy list:http://support.xbox.com/en-US/games/play-original-games">http:// support.xbox.com/en-US/games/play-original-games   If it's not there it won't play.

So saying "IF they create an emulator" as if it's something that MS wouldn't/hasn't done is just stupid grasping for issues.

Again the "always on" issue, if true for the non-subscription based system is a deal breaker.

WhippingBoy: Looks like a PS4 for me. Or is there a fatal flaw with that, too?

No backwards compatibility?  I still have my 60 gb fatty (with the mem card slots) and to be honest, playing ps2 games on that is SHIAT!  The graphics suck so bad that I can't believe I used to think that they were the bomb.

My current xbox is always online, but I too, will simply not purchase any next-gen console if it is a requirement to always be online.

F*ck. That. Sh*t.

Concerning the article, who cares about backwards compatibility (backcom? backpat?).
Seriously, the intent is to move forward. People will already, I'm guessing, have xboxes. If you want to play a 360 game, play it on the 360. Did NES games run in the Super NES? This will not even be a factor in my decision.

So far the PS4 has underwhelmed me so much I forget it exists. I hope the 720 gives an actual reason to upgrade.
And next-gen had better have 60fps as a standard. If not, they're sitting still, not evolving. 60fps is the next step in both games and film.

PsyLord: cman: sammyk: I will never buy any device or software that REQUIRES an internet connection. Ever. The end.

What about a Roku?

I actually bought a Roku player and after plugging it in, discovered that I had to create a Roku account.  WTF.  Ok, so after creating the account, I discovered that if I wanted to play movie files, I would have to download the player from Roku.  WTF 2.  Ok, so downloaded the file and then tried to run the movies that I had.  Nope, not compatible.  OMGWTFBBQ.

/returned the POS
//still using my 5+ year old WDTV Live that will play almost every damn thing I throw at it.

Wow really? Mine was nearly plug and play. I use PLEX app/channel to stream my movies through the Roku from my PC and media server. Easy-peasy and it plays nearly every codec and file format out there.

If it means no more shiatty butchered to shiat PC ports I don't care how many console lovers it pisses off.

Not touching the next Xbox with a  foot pole.

PsyLord: WhippingBoy: Looks like a PS4 for me. Or is there a fatal flaw with that, too?

No backwards compatibility?  I still have my 60 gb fatty (with the mem card slots) and to be honest, playing ps2 games on that is SHIAT!  The graphics suck so bad that I can't believe I used to think that they were the bomb.

That sucks, but it's not a show-stopper, as I'll still be able to play games on my PS3.

Is coding on a non-x86 platform really where the money and time is lost during game production?

Really?

DoBeDoBeDo: Prior to the PS2 no consoles were backward compatible without an extra piece of hardware that acted as an emulator AND was designed to fit the cartidges.

ORLY?

Sandusky Knows Best: WhippingBoy: Looks like a PS4 for me. Or is there a fatal flaw with that, too?

Didn't someone leak PS4 was going towards always online requirement? I may be mistaken, but I thought a month back or so some article got green lit.

-Likely on-line only (even Steam gives the option to play off line)
-No backwards compatibility (inevitable at some point)
-Rumor that the discs will have a limited number of installs making resale of games impossible.
-Price will likely be high
-Sony's history of DRM even with hardware

DoBeDoBeDo: Even the Xbox360 had this issue, not every game was ported over from the Xbox to the 360, only the top titles.

Interestingly enough, the New Xbox would, technically, actually be easy to run original Xbox games on. They'd just have to downclock the CPU and GPU by about 75% to match the 700MHz Celery chip in the original, and add in the appropriate BIOS translation layer...

The_EliteOne: PsyLord: cman: sammyk: I will never buy any device or software that REQUIRES an internet connection. Ever. The end.

What about a Roku?

I actually bought a Roku player and after plugging it in, discovered that I had to create a Roku account.  WTF.  Ok, so after creating the account, I discovered that if I wanted to play movie files, I would have to download the player from Roku.  WTF 2.  Ok, so downloaded the file and then tried to run the movies that I had.  Nope, not compatible.  OMGWTFBBQ.

/returned the POS
//still using my 5+ year old WDTV Live that will play almost every damn thing I throw at it.

Wow really? Mine was nearly plug and play. I use PLEX app/channel to stream my movies through the Roku from my PC and media server. Easy-peasy and it plays nearly every codec and file format out there.

I was trying to play files from a USB drive directly plugged into the Roku player.  Sure, I can stream the media to the Roku, but what's the point?  I could do that with the PS3.  I just wanted a stand alone player that doesn't need a PC/server up and running.

Tyrosine: Sandusky Knows Best: WhippingBoy: Looks like a PS4 for me. Or is there a fatal flaw with that, too?

Didn't someone leak PS4 was going towards always online requirement? I may be mistaken, but I thought a month back or so some article got green lit.

-Likely on-line only (even Steam gives the option to play off line)
-No backwards compatibility (inevitable at some point)
-Rumor that the discs will have a limited number of installs making resale of games impossible.
-Price will likely be high
-Sony's history of DRM even with hardware


Sounds like the link I thought. So... what exactly are the options then if both major consoles go this route? Steam Box? Build a new PC? I've always been partial to XBOX and would not buy if forced to have an internet connection (even though mine is always connected anyways). I'm not extremely concerned about backwards compatibility (it would be nice, but not high on my list). However, I am a big used games buyer. I rarely feel the need to buy right at the release date, so this would leave me extremely butthurt if I couldn't pick up a good title for $20.

WhippingBoy: PsyLord: WhippingBoy: Looks like a PS4 for me. Or is there a fatal flaw with that, too?

No backwards compatibility?  I still have my 60 gb fatty (with the mem card slots) and to be honest, playing ps2 games on that is SHIAT!  The graphics suck so bad that I can't believe I used to think that they were the bomb.

That sucks, but it's not a show-stopper, as I'll still be able to play games on my PS3.

Backwards compatibility for PS4 might be a good thing though since I don't think there is that much of a graphics gap between the current gen and the next gen (unlike what was seen between PS2 and PS3 graphics).  At least that's my impression from some of the developers interviews that I have read.

/could be totally wrong

Lack of backwards capability doesn't surprise me, and frankly neither does the always online portion. Mind you, we're still just dealing with rumors here.

I keep seeing a very loud yet small minority bellowing about how they will boycott the 720, never ever buy another one, etc etc. Honestly, your complaints aren't going to be cared for or even heard.

What percentage of Xbox users simply just line up to purchase the next Halo for the sole purpose of playing online versus those who will never ever go online? Overwhelming, I'm sure.

You're a minority. A minority in a group of people who typically can't actually maintain the self control required to upkeep a boycott.

You'll either get over it or don't. If you don't, odds are you eventually will anyways.

Actually, a tricked out gaming PC seems like it'll be the better choice. Unless Sony/Microsoft can offer something truly remarkable, they can go fark themselves. A "console exclusive" version of Medal of Duty just won't cut it.

DoBeDoBeDo: The "always on" argument is a good one, this one....not so much.   Prior to the PS2 no consoles were backward compatible without an extra piece of hardware that acted as an emulator AND was designed to fit the cartidges.

Prior to the PS2 the console market was also sort of a jumbled mess.  And yes, the different cartridge form factors made it that much more difficult.  Switching to a disk media has made that issue trivial.  It would be more difficult to find a blu-ray player that doesn't also read DVDs and CDs that just buying one that does.

After Sony introduced the backward compatibility concept in what today would be an almost unfathomable gesture of goodwill towards their customers, people decided they liked it and wanted to have it included on future models.  Then Sony and Microsoft saw the Nintendo model of repackaging and reselling old titles instead of offering compatibility, and decided that they wanted a piece of that action.  It's just another example of the video game industry viewing their customers as nothing more than income streams, and of video gamers proving time and time again that that is all they really are.

Sandusky Knows Best: Didn't someone leak PS4 was going towards always online requirement? I may be mistaken, but I thought a month back or so some article got green lit.

"PS4 games will be playable without an Internet connection."

Lack of backwards capability doesn't surprise me, and frankly neither does the always online portion. Mind you, we're still just dealing with rumors here.

I keep seeing a very loud yet small minority bellowing about how they will boycott the 720, never ever buy another one, etc etc. Honestly, your complaints aren't going to be cared for or even heard.

What percentage of Xbox users simply just line up to purchase the next Halo for the sole purpose of playing online versus those who will never ever go online? Overwhelming, I'm sure.

You're a minority. A minority in a group of people who typically can't actually maintain the self control required to upkeep a boycott.

You'll either get over it or don't. If you don't, odds are you eventually will anyways


I don't disagree with too much in your post. However, they won't receive my money. Which is fine, there are other systems available or PC to go to. And they have other customers to take my place. I wouldn't even say I would buy another XBOX product. Let's say they completely screw up this version (in my eyes). If the 1080 or whatever the follow up console would be is good, I would buy that one. I'm just not willing to buy something that doesn't have the features I want. So I'm not really sure how that's a bad thing like your connotations are implying.

Need a Dispenser Here: What percentage of Xbox users simply just line up to purchase the next Halo for the sole purpose of playing online versus those who will never ever go online? Overwhelming, I'm sure.

Although I DO enjoy the Halo universe for its story I love me some shooting online and have bought every limited/legendary edition version on launch day.  And right now I'm playing BlackOps II without having ever played the single player.

That being said if I am FORCED to be online to play I'll stick with my 360 until another system catches my eye.  I like having the option of playing a single player game those times where the cable goes out and I've gotten halfway through AC3 doing just that.

Also my view of online DRM is that they are treating me as a criminial who would pirate every game in existence if given the chance and they HAVE to remove that chance.    fark that noise.

theurge14: Is coding on a non-x86 platform really where the money and time is lost during game production?

Really?

For larger publishers the cost would be in porting the title.  The parity between platforms for the next Xbox, PS4, etc are designed to make it easier for publishers to port titles.

It's pretty clear where all this is going with "always online" games and game systems. Next it will be movies and music. Your ipad or iphone will have to authenticate the movie or song every time you play it. Your blu-ray player will get in on the act too. It will require an internet connection in order to play movies. Because they don't want to sell you a movie or a song or a game. They want to sell you a license to play the movie or song or game.

Sandusky Knows Best: Tyrosine: Sandusky Knows Best: WhippingBoy: Looks like a PS4 for me. Or is there a fatal flaw with that, too?

Didn't someone leak PS4 was going towards always online requirement? I may be mistaken, but I thought a month back or so some article got green lit.

-Likely on-line only (even Steam gives the option to play off line)
-No backwards compatibility (inevitable at some point)
-Rumor that the discs will have a limited number of installs making resale of games impossible.
-Price will likely be high
-Sony's history of DRM even with hardware


Sounds like the link I thought. So... what exactly are the options then if both major consoles go this route? Steam Box? Build a new PC? I've always been partial to XBOX and would not buy if forced to have an internet connection (even though mine is always connected anyways). I'm not extremely concerned about backwards compatibility (it would be nice, but not high on my list). However, I am a big used games buyer. I rarely feel the need to buy right at the release date, so this would leave me extremely butthurt if I couldn't pick up a good title for $20.

I went PC. I get stuff on sale at Steam for the same price as I would pay for a used game and Steam allows you to play off-line. I can always upgrade my PC piece by piece to keep it up to date and I'm not supporting three different formats anymore, which in the end saves money. My current PC cost ~$800 and works fine for games (I'm playing the new Bioshock with no problems), and it still does all the traditional PC stuff like internet, word processing, etc. Kinect also works for PC, so you're not missing out on that either. Like I said above, other than exclusive titles there's nothing a console can do that a PC can't and PC's are more versatile.

DoBeDoBeDo: The "always on" argument is a good one...

No, it is a terrible argument.

The people who laud always online don't realize that we do not have the infrastructure in place to support such a scheme. Some parts of the US still have issue getting a broadband connection. Unless Google continues to expand their Fiber busiess beyond KC and Austin and make the rest of the tele/cable companies piss themselves, it's still going to be garbage.

Furthermore, not everyone is in position to have their console in an always online state. For example, one of the biggest buyers for the XBox brand was college-aged people. Try getting a console onto most campus' networks.

Even then, forcing an online-only experience to a game that has no multiplayer billing makes no sense, other than the fact that it is acting as a hamfisted form of DRM. Ask how well that is working for Ubisoft and EA? It's not like the new SimCity didn't have blowup after blowup for weeks post-launch, right?

Get that crap out of here.

TheBlackrose: DoBeDoBeDo: The "always on" argument is a good one...

No, it is a terrible argument.

The people who laud always online don't realize that we do not have the infrastructure in place to support such a scheme. Some parts of the US still have issue getting a broadband connection. Unless Google continues to expand their Fiber busiess beyond KC and Austin and make the rest of the tele/cable companies piss themselves, it's still going to be garbage.

Furthermore, not everyone is in position to have their console in an always online state. For example, one of the biggest buyers for the XBox brand was college-aged people. Try getting a console onto most campus' networks.

Even then, forcing an online-only experience to a game that has no multiplayer billing makes no sense, other than the fact that it is acting as a hamfisted form of DRM. Ask how well that is working for Ubisoft and EA? It's not like the new SimCity didn't have blowup after blowup for weeks post-launch, right?

Get that crap out of here.

Plus the cost of exceeding your bandwidth cap. If the purpose is just for DRM it won't suck up a lot, but you just know that the suits in the marketing department will eventually decide to do crap like stream banner ads during cut scenes, run adds during the game (and give you the option of paying a additional fee to play add free), etc. that will suck up bandwidth.

styckx: If it means no more shiatty butchered to shiat PC ports I don't care how many console lovers it pisses off.

No - you'll still get that.  Just because they don't have to cross-compile the code doesn't mean that developers will suddenly start spending time and money putting keyboard controls in place of controller inputs in their games.  Or any other PC-specific constructs for that matter.  As long as they sell more console games than PC games they will continue to develop for the consoles first and port to PCs second.

Lots of people are discounting "not backwards compatible" as an issue (mainly because so many past consoles did the same) - but this is not the past.  The Xbox has a much larger install base now, and users have a much larger array of existing games. Which means a much larger number of users who don't want two consoles, they want to replace their existing console with a new one.  Seems like that means many more unhappy customers than in the past.