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(Pajiba)   For a refreshing change, a mom posts a list of 10 things about which non-breeders need to ESS. TEE. EFF. YOO. (Update: Turns out the author is a dad)   (pajiba.com) divider line 421
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23572 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Apr 2013 at 9:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-09 11:29:52 AM
Part of me wonders if the Fark non-breeders are non-breeders by choice.....they seem extremely vitriolic, like a nerve has been struck.

Can you get a chick pregnant in your Mom's basement while playing WoW and making cheeto-fingers?
 
2013-04-09 11:34:42 AM
Everyone driving slower than you is an idiot and everyone driving faster is a maniac.
 
2013-04-09 11:42:54 AM

Head_Shot: Part of me wonders if the Fark non-breeders are non-breeders by choice.....they seem extremely vitriolic, like a nerve has been struck.

Can you get a chick pregnant in your Mom's basement while playing WoW and making cheeto-fingers?


It's not just fark.  My wife and I know a number of people who are very openly critical of everything kids related.  Hell, some of these people have kids themselves.

There are a number of possible reasons for this.  Ego is one.  I don't like the fact that, as it stands now, there is a generation of adults who were told that they were special in every way raising kids to have the "I got mine so fark you" attitude.  My parents were kind and loving, as were my wife's, but we were never told that we were special to everyone in the world.  Consequently, we tend to try and act like we belong to something resembling society, as opposed to self contained special anarchic person units.
 
2013-04-09 11:43:32 AM
As a childless-but-married-for-20+-years person, I read the entire article straining in vain to find a single point which applied to me.

I don't do the annoying Facebook thing... I don't do Facebook.
I put my vacation photos on a blog, and then I only post the best 1-2% (none are of the "I'm standing in front of something" variety either).
I am tolerant of a wide array of child behaviors, but there is a point at which kids are too disruptive, I don't care how goddam much you need a day out. Go to Sonic and eat in your car if the kid is going to scream non-stop, or make a mess in a spray radius of greater than their reach.
Friends who can't hang, don't. Fine. I'll see you at work, or at my birthday party or something. If lives don't work together, it's not as big a deal in today's hyper-connected world.

Parents made a choice. Even if the pregnancy was an accident, that you kept the kid was a choice. I was adopted by parents who wanted me badly and given up by parents who couldn't take care of me properly. Both sides made the right choice.

If your choice inconveniences others beyond reasonable tolerance levels (ask a stranger if you can't figure it out on your own) don't be surprised when someone offers you advice on how to minimize being an asshole. The manner of their expression is probably related to how big an asshole you are being.
 
2013-04-09 11:47:11 AM
Dear Mommies and Daddies,

No we actually don't need to cut you a break. In fact, I don't owe you a damned thing, I have my own problems to worry about. Grow up and handle your responsibilities.

Signed,

Everyone
 
2013-04-09 11:47:11 AM
Meh She has some valid points..especially about the resturant thing. I take my kid out so I dont have to cook and clean. Also if you choose to eat at a "Family"  dining establishment why are you judging parents who bring their families you non-breeding hipster douchnozzles.

Seems like the childless ones  are out in force in this thread, but it is FARK so you know you have to move out of your mom's basement to have kids
 
2013-04-09 11:49:18 AM

chewd: 10.  fark you... ever worked a 40+ hour shift?  Ever worked more than 360 days in a single year? I've done both... to cover up for busy parents who didnt have time to show up for their farking job.


You sound angry, like you missed a big sale on hairnets
 
2013-04-09 11:54:57 AM
I stopped reading after she started biatching about Facebook. If Facebook has that much influence on your life, then you need to forget about having a child. You need to seriously re-evaluate yourself and your priorities first.
 
2013-04-09 11:55:29 AM

taoistlumberjak: Head_Shot: Part of me wonders if the Fark non-breeders are non-breeders by choice.....they seem extremely vitriolic, like a nerve has been struck.

Can you get a chick pregnant in your Mom's basement while playing WoW and making cheeto-fingers?

It's not just fark.  My wife and I know a number of people who are very openly critical of everything kids related.  Hell, some of these people have kids themselves.

There are a number of possible reasons for this.  Ego is one.  I don't like the fact that, as it stands now, there is a generation of adults who were told that they were special in every way raising kids to have the "I got mine so fark you" attitude.  My parents were kind and loving, as were my wife's, but we were never told that we were special to everyone in the world.  Consequently, we tend to try and act like we belong to something resembling society, as opposed to self contained special anarchic person units.


Agreed. Fortunately for me (and the kids) my wife makes me be more social then I would normally be.
 
2013-04-09 11:55:46 AM
I just started and then stopped reading a pointless tome by a delusional woman. Any point she may have had was lost in bitterness and defensiveness, which suggest that she knows in her heart that the childless people have valid points.
 
2013-04-09 11:57:58 AM

EbolaNYC: Dear Mommies and Daddies,

No we actually don't need to cut you a break. In fact, I don't owe you a damned thing, I have my own problems to worry about. Grow up and handle your responsibilities.

Signed,

Everyone


That should help They don't owe you anything either.  No quarter asked, none given.
 
2013-04-09 11:59:03 AM

blindio: That should help(.) They don't owe you anything either.  No quarter asked, none given.


I missed a period in a parenting thread.  I find that amusing.
 
2013-04-09 11:59:32 AM

Head_Shot: taoistlumberjak: Head_Shot: Part of me wonders if the Fark non-breeders are non-breeders by choice.....they seem extremely vitriolic, like a nerve has been struck.

Can you get a chick pregnant in your Mom's basement while playing WoW and making cheeto-fingers?

It's not just fark.  My wife and I know a number of people who are very openly critical of everything kids related.  Hell, some of these people have kids themselves.

There are a number of possible reasons for this.  Ego is one.  I don't like the fact that, as it stands now, there is a generation of adults who were told that they were special in every way raising kids to have the "I got mine so fark you" attitude.  My parents were kind and loving, as were my wife's, but we were never told that we were special to everyone in the world.  Consequently, we tend to try and act like we belong to something resembling society, as opposed to self contained special anarchic person units.

Agreed. Fortunately for me (and the kids) my wife makes me be more social then I would normally be.


I know how you feel.  My wife and I can be the same way.  We like hanging out with people who tend to be decent human beings, kids or no kids.  It's the ones who can't act like grown-ass people that we get really anti-social around.

If liking to be around decent people only makes one anti-social, then I'm proudly anti-social.
 
2013-04-09 11:59:33 AM

onzmadi: Meh She has some valid points..especially about the resturant thing. I take my kid out so I dont have to cook and clean. Also if you choose to eat at a "Family"  dining establishment why are you judging parents who bring their families you non-breeding hipster douchnozzles.

Seems like the childless ones  are out in force in this thread, but it is FARK so you know you have to move out of your mom's basement to have kids


Nah it's not one of those threads.  The conversation actually started out pretty measured - the father's points make him out to be an obviously lousy parent, who spends 40 hours a week watching television as his job.  At the same time, the anti-breeder set is pretty obnoxious.

Kids *do* have a place in society, and parents *do* have the responsibility to either raise them correctly *before* inflicting them upon society.  And no, being a parent does not make you special, or above the judgment of the childless.
 
2013-04-09 12:01:34 PM

Lexx: onzmadi: Meh She has some valid points..especially about the resturant thing. I take my kid out so I dont have to cook and clean. Also if you choose to eat at a "Family"  dining establishment why are you judging parents who bring their families you non-breeding hipster douchnozzles.

Seems like the childless ones  are out in force in this thread, but it is FARK so you know you have to move out of your mom's basement to have kids

Nah it's not one of those threads.  The conversation actually started out pretty measured - the father's points make him out to be an obviously lousy parent, who spends 40 hours a week watching television as his job.  At the same time, the anti-breeder set is pretty obnoxious.

Kids *do* have a place in society, and parents *do* have the responsibility to either raise them correctly *before* inflicting them upon society***.  And no, being a parent does not make you special, or above the judgment of the childless.


***or, if they can't raise them to behave, parents have the duty to not bring them out in public.
 
2013-04-09 12:03:05 PM

MycroftHolmes: No, she is saying that if the kid acts shy, and the parent says he is just shy, don't lecture the parent on how to raise a kid who isn't shy.


That's not what the author said at all.  The author's message was "If my kid is awkward around you and I say it's because he's shy, it's actually because you're ugly".

Seriously.  Read it again.  There was even a "Try looking at your face in a mirror and it'll be obvious why my kid's afraid of you" statement.
 
2013-04-09 12:05:26 PM
The article makes some good general points, but then the author goes full retard...
 
2013-04-09 12:06:39 PM

Lexx: Kids *do* have a place in society, and parents *do* have the responsibility to either raise them correctly *before* inflicting them upon society.


Raise the kids before "inflicting" them upon society?  Sheesh, do you always go around broadcasting your childhood issues?

/kidding
 
2013-04-09 12:09:00 PM

blindio: EbolaNYC: Dear Mommies and Daddies,

No we actually don't need to cut you a break. In fact, I don't owe you a damned thing, I have my own problems to worry about. Grow up and handle your responsibilities.

Signed,

Everyone

That should help They don't owe you anything either.  No quarter asked, none given.


Yeah, no shiat Sherlock. That's the point.
 
2013-04-09 12:10:00 PM
It's funny how some people assume that not having kids is the result of the fact that someone couldn't get knocked up.

I'm pretty sure I've put more thought and care into ensuring I won't have kids than most people do into having them. All anyone wants, regardless if you have a kid or not, is for people to act responsible for their choices.
 
2013-04-09 12:10:59 PM

cgraves67: As a parent, I agree that there are a lot of bad parents in the world, but a lot of the ones people complain about, do the things they do because it is what works. You can go into parenting with a basic plan on how to handle feeding, clothing, and disciplining a child, but raising a child is similar to combat in the sense that, once engaged, all planning goes out the window. You simply have to do what works, even if the people around are annoyed or disapprove.



No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy.

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder
 
2013-04-09 12:11:31 PM
9.What Really Annoys Me Is When Parents Yell at their Kids But Never Get Out of Their Chair and Deal with the Kid - Well, how are we supposed to "deal with it"? We yelled at the kid, didn't we?

What the fark am I supposed to do?  I already yelled at my goddamn kid, didn't I?  And he still didn't stop misbehaving.  Yelling at him is my entire arsenal of discipline techniques!  You don't actually expect me to do more, do you?  Fark that!

And then in the next sentence, the author goes on to start ranting about liberals being to blame for his/her kid's inability to be disciplined.  Awesome stuff.  Really enhances the credibility of the entire article.
 
2013-04-09 12:13:01 PM

Yugoboy: As a childless-but-married-for-20+-years person, I read the entire article straining in vain to find a single point which applied to me.

I don't do the annoying Facebook thing... I don't do Facebook.
...

If your choice inconveniences others beyond reasonable tolerance levels (ask a stranger if you can't figure it out on your own) don't be surprised when someone offers you advice on how to minimize being an asshole. The manner of their expression is probably related to how big an asshole you are being.

FTFA:
"How would you feel, you childless heathens, if we were to label all the non-breeders the same? Let's find out."

Gee Yugoboy, why do you think you couldn't find a single point that applied to you? I don't want you to strain too hard, as your sage offering of advice makes pretty clear the thesis of the article is well beyond your comprehension  even though it was explicitly stated at the start.
 
2013-04-09 12:13:40 PM
TFA: If we say that our child is "shy," when our child is being quiet or ignoring you, we're just trying to be nice. In reality, it's because you are a scary looking person who children immediately distrust and we don't want to hurt your feelings by telling you that.

Don't lie to me, biatch!
 
2013-04-09 12:15:40 PM

blindio: That should help They don't owe you anything either.

 No quarter asked, none given.

No quarter?

So, can non-parents get back the extra taxes they paid (taxes which go toward schools & children's programs) that they were unable to deduct for no reason other than the fact that they didn't have children?
 
2013-04-09 12:20:13 PM

onzmadi: Meh She has some valid points..especially about the resturant thing. I take my kid out so I dont have to cook and clean. Also if you choose to eat at a "Family"  dining establishment why are you judging parents who bring their families you non-breeding hipster douchnozzles.

Seems like the childless ones  are out in force in this thread, but it is FARK so you know you have to move out of your mom's basement to have kids


I like how you and the author are both acting like we are talking about "family restaurants" when you know damn well that we aren't. There was a farking baby at the midnight showing of The Dark Knight Rises during the Aurora shooting. Do you think those people would have any issues with dragging their baby along to a 5-star restaurant?

Seems like the childed ones are out in force in this thread and are ignorant as hell.
 
2013-04-09 12:21:23 PM
Uh, just to say, this article was written as a quasi-response to this piece: here.  All of the bullet points in the FA are answers that supposedly came from real childless people.  The author wasn't making them up out of thin air.
 
2013-04-09 12:21:52 PM
I've got a kid and I'll tell you that I'm a pretty shiatty parent.  My kid loves me, but I'm sure I suck bar the occasional home run.  I hate both sanctimonious parents and sanctimonious non parents equally, with probably more hate for the parents.  WHY?  Because anyone who is sanctimonious should be punched in the face. My kid has autism and thinks your kid isn't as interesting as the toy he's found.  Yeah it's weird, but fark you if you take it personally, he's got autism.  Try getting your kid to engage him in a game of tag and he'll chase you to the end of the earth.  And don't look at him like a retard, he reads books without pictures and he just turned four.  He's plenty smart, just a weird ass.

And yeah, I called my kid weird.  He's also occasionally obnoxious and bossy, fibs, and doesn't know when to use the inside voice.  He's also fun, funny, and full of ideas.  He's just four so there is a limit to his capabilities, but there are upsides to the dickishnes.

And single people or people without kids, you made your choice.  I don't care about your choice, please at least don't care about mine.  My kid will cry.  I DON'T FARKING LIKE IT EITHER.  You think I LIKE that shiat?  No, but I'm an adult and I understand that these things happen.

So from this parent, there is plenty of hate to go around and it all has to do with being sanctimonious dickheads - Period.
 
2013-04-09 12:22:40 PM

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: Should we take away something? Because she's three, does she really have anything of value?

To her, yes.  This use to work fantastic on my daughter at that age.

<Kid situation>
Me:  You better stop what you're doing or I'm going to put one of your toys in time out.
Kid:  What are you gonna take?
Me:  What do you think I'm gonna take?
Kid: (GASP)  Not my Shamu!?!
Me:  Oh, you bet it's your Shamu.
</Kid situation>


www.hellonearth.com
 
2013-04-09 12:23:42 PM

THX 1138: So, can non-parents get back the extra taxes they paid (taxes which go toward schools & children's programs) that they were unable to deduct for no reason other than the fact that they didn't have children?


Just as soon as they give back all the taxes their parents didn't have to pay plus interest. I'll just assume they didn't sponge up 12 years of free education too, because then complaining about paying for it now would just be Republican-scale hypocrisy. (And if you went to school in the 80's, well just try a quick Net Present Value calculation on how much you have to pay back considering historic discount rates.)

Economically, tax breaks are given to the child and paid back tenfold over that child's lifetime. And you, as entitled a snowflake as you are, still owe so pay the fark up. (If you're an immigrant, it's the fee you pay to come here.)
 
2013-04-09 12:24:33 PM
Seems to me that this has taught me that everyone, breeder or non-breeder, sign up to social networks and go to social places and are then very angered when they encounter other human beings.

If you add someone on Facebook, did you not expect them to post pictures of their kids/food/vacation/etc?

If you go to a restaurant, did you not expect other people to actually be there, living their lives?


Seems like everyone wants to be in public, but not actually encounter any people.
 
2013-04-09 12:26:36 PM

THX 1138: blindio: That should help They don't owe you anything either.  No quarter asked, none given.

No quarter?

So, can non-parents get back the extra taxes they paid (taxes which go toward schools & children's programs) that they were unable to deduct for no reason other than the fact that they didn't have children?


Having been a child yourself once, you'll understand that you benefited from a similar program(s) that you personally did not have to pay for, are you suggesting you would be better off if a majority of the next generation is uneducated because you didn't want to pay for education?  The fact that you fail to see the benefit of the cost of such programs does not exempt you from it.
 
2013-04-09 12:28:17 PM

Surpheon: THX 1138: So, can non-parents get back the extra taxes they paid (taxes which go toward schools & children's programs) that they were unable to deduct for no reason other than the fact that they didn't have children?

Just as soon as they give back all the taxes their parents didn't have to pay plus interest. I'll just assume they didn't sponge up 12 years of free education too, because then complaining about paying for it now would just be Republican-scale hypocrisy. (And if you went to school in the 80's, well just try a quick Net Present Value calculation on how much you have to pay back considering historic discount rates.)


That is fine with me. I suppose you will be fine with us eliminating any programs that didn't exist at the time our parents were raising us as well, which is a shiatload of them.
 
2013-04-09 12:32:30 PM
Still a fairly recent parent myself. I don't begrudge people getting irritated when a child is acting out in public. I don't want to be around that anymore than they do (and nobody understands that better than my own children, for what it's worth).

But, I still find amazing is the sheer number of people that get *preemptively* annoyed, in a a very demonstrative manner, simply by the presence of a small child or some fleeting moment of (god forbid) childlike behavior (e.g., the plaintive, world-weary sigh when me and my daughter sit down next to you in a public place).

Still waiting for some poor sucker to overstep his bounds, and throw his little adult-tantrum in a way that my kid actually notices. Because, at that point, I'm pretty sure I'm going to lose my shiat...in a very demonstrative manner.
 
2013-04-09 12:32:54 PM

GORDON: PanicMan: I refuse to accept the term  "non-breeder" in any way, shape, or form.

Names are only funny when you can label the OTHER person with them.

FTA: " If you regularly post pictures or talk about your dogs, cats, or other pets on Facebook, just don't even. Really, do you have any idea how little we care about how adorable your puppy looks peeking out from under the blankets? But do we constantly give you sh*t about it, or talk smack about you behind your back? No. We "Like" your post like the good goddamn friends we are because if it makes you happy, it makes us happy, even if that worthless damn pet of yours will never be able to pay for your hospice care. "

Funny because it is true.



So the reason she's having kids is just to have someone to take care of her when she's old. At least I don't foist my responsibility of my well-being on others. Also, I have trained my pets to ensure they're quiet and don't get into everything, unlike the little shiats that she seems unable to control.
 
2013-04-09 12:33:45 PM

Girl Pants: Seems like everyone wants to be in public, but not actually encounter any people.


I don't think I can put it any better.
It's unfortunate, though, that public contains a number of people who should not be allowed out in public.
 
2013-04-09 12:38:12 PM

umad: That is fine with me. I suppose you will be fine with us eliminating any programs that didn't exist at the time our parents were raising us as well, which is a shiatload of them.


Go ahead and list 'em out. Try to grasp a bit of reality, or at least respect the big Newt-Clinton welfare ax that fell in the 90's - depending when you were raised, it is entirely likely there was MORE spending on children ('welfare queens' were rare but not extinct in the 70's 80's and early 90's).

Most of the budget growth has gone to defense spending, not child benefits.
 
2013-04-09 12:40:07 PM

Bumblefark: Still a fairly recent parent myself. I don't begrudge people getting irritated when a child is acting out in public. I don't want to be around that anymore than they do (and nobody understands that better than my own children, for what it's worth).

But, I still find amazing is the sheer number of people that get *preemptively* annoyed, in a a very demonstrative manner, simply by the presence of a small child or some fleeting moment of (god forbid) childlike behavior (e.g., the plaintive, world-weary sigh when me and my daughter sit down next to you in a public place).

Still waiting for some poor sucker to overstep his bounds, and throw his little adult-tantrum in a way that my kid actually notices. Because, at that point, I'm pretty sure I'm going to lose my shiat...in a very demonstrative manner.


You are looking for an excuse to lose your shiat on someone because your comfort in public is obviously more important than theirs, so they need to STFU and deal with it. Yet you wonder why people are "preemptively annoyed" with you?

Here is your typical parent everybody.
 
2013-04-09 12:42:17 PM

Mystery Vortex: So the reason she's having kids is just to have someone to take care of her when she's old.


I'm guessing you didn't do so well on the verbal SAT. She is clearly referring to her child primarily as a pet and secondarily stating a beneficial action it can do. Children as "luxury pets" is a pretty convincing argument actually, The Economist has made it pretty well if you want to google it up.
 
2013-04-09 12:45:10 PM

blindio: Having been a child yourself once, you'll understand that you benefited from a similar program(s) that you personally did not have to pay for, are you suggesting you would be better off if a majority of the next generation is uneducated because you didn't want to pay for education?  The fact that you fail to see the benefit of the cost of such programs does not exempt you from it.


I neither said that anyone would be better off if the next generation is uneducated, nor did I ever say I was unwilling to pay.  I have no problem paying taxes which benefit children, even if others get to pay less simply because they have kids.  It's an investment that I absolutely benefited from and believe is worth continuing.

I was pointing out the inaccuracy of the "No quarter asked, none given" response I quoted.
 
2013-04-09 12:54:16 PM

Surpheon: umad: That is fine with me. I suppose you will be fine with us eliminating any programs that didn't exist at the time our parents were raising us as well, which is a shiatload of them.

Go ahead and list 'em out. Try to grasp a bit of reality, or at least respect the big Newt-Clinton welfare ax that fell in the 90's - depending when you were raised, it is entirely likely there was MORE spending on children ('welfare queens' were rare but not extinct in the 70's 80's and early 90's).


WIC started in 1972.
The Earned Income Tax Credit was enacted in 1975.
Per child tax credits have been raised from $400 in 1998 to $1000 today.

I could keep going, but you get the point. If you say I still owe for when I was a kid, then fine. But I should only have to pay for the services that were actually available when I was a kid. Here is where you disagree and say that the rest of us should have to pay for your decisions, because that is what parents actually want.
 
2013-04-09 01:00:02 PM

THX 1138: blindio: That should help They don't owe you anything either.  No quarter asked, none given.

No quarter?

So, can non-parents get back the extra taxes they paid (taxes which go toward schools & children's programs) that they were unable to deduct for no reason other than the fact that they didn't have children?


I'd be happy just to prevent parents from getting back MORE than they paid due to the "Earned Income" Child Tax Credit. What a friggin' joke. You do not want to know how many people get back hundreds of dollars more than they paid simply because they had unprotected sex.
 
2013-04-09 01:04:24 PM
Many years ago, when my two oldest kids were pretty darn young (roughly 8 and 3), we took them with us to a VERY fancy restaurant (the Peninsula Grill at the Planters Inn in Charleston, SC). There wasn't another child in the restaurant, and the stares from the other diners were palpable.

My kids sat quietly, behaved themselves, and ate their dinner. We got several compliments on how well-behaved our children were.

If you teach your kids how to behave, and then expect them to behave, they will (for the most part) behave. Not always--they are kids. But I believe that almost any kid can control himself long enough to eat dinner in a restaurant if he is taught to do so.
 
2013-04-09 01:04:59 PM
One through seven, nine and ten are meh. I'm indifferent to what any of you think about me or my kids when I'm in public. If the little ones get out of line, I'll take care of them. Likewise if you get out of line, I'll take care of you. Simple. I'm an equal opportuntity tantrum corrector.

As far as 8, well it's only creepy if you don't have kids. If I've learned anything, kids learn better when I walk the walk. My wife and I think that calling us Mommy and Daddy is a respect thing. Much like that if my children were to address you it would be Mr./Ms. Firstname. And she does have a point, I'm sure many of you are calling each other weird-ass pet names.
 
2013-04-09 01:08:48 PM

umad: Surpheon: umad: That is fine with me. I suppose you will be fine with us eliminating any programs that didn't exist at the time our parents were raising us as well, which is a shiatload of them.

Go ahead and list 'em out. Try to grasp a bit of reality, or at least respect the big Newt-Clinton welfare ax that fell in the 90's - depending when you were raised, it is entirely likely there was MORE spending on children ('welfare queens' were rare but not extinct in the 70's 80's and early 90's).

WIC started in 1972.
The Earned Income Tax Credit was enacted in 1975.
Per child tax credits have been raised from $400 in 1998 to $1000 today.

I could keep going, but you get the point. If you say I still owe for when I was a kid, then fine. But I should only have to pay for the services that were actually available when I was a kid. Here is where you disagree and say that the rest of us should have to pay for your decisions, because that is what parents actually want.


Actually, we more or less assume that the value to society of not devolving into an aging geriatric population with no one to provide basic goods and services overrides your personal life choices, and thus you derive value from having the children of others both provide a stable economic base for your own future as producers and consumers.  We furthermore have decided that there's a basic level of needs that everyone should have provided to them in order to derive that value and prevent excessive health care and legal costs to society as a whole.  You are encouraged to disagree, and vote however your conscious guides you.  The reason that these benefits are provided is because, by definition, that viewpoint is what society as a whole has decided through our representatives to provide them.  These benefits are available to you, whether you choose to procreate and take advantage of them or not, because we've decided there's a net profit to society in providing them.
 
2013-04-09 01:20:44 PM

Mr Guy: Actually, we more or less assume that the value to society of not devolving into an aging geriatric population with no one to provide basic goods and services overrides your personal life choices, and thus you derive value from having the children of others both provide a stable economic base for your own future as producers and consumers.  We furthermore have decided that there's a basic level of needs that everyone should have provided to them in order to derive that value and prevent excessive health care and legal costs to society as a whole.  You are encouraged to disagree, and vote however your conscious guides you.  The reason that these benefits are provided is because, by definition, that viewpoint is what society as a whole has decided through our representatives to provide them.  These benefits are available to you, whether you choose to procreate and take advantage of them or not, because we've decided there's a net profit to society in providing them.


Now you're just moving the goalposts. You are pretty much telling me that I am not allowed to have any problems with our current government because "society" made it the way it is, and thus it is the way it should be. The original argument was that we are paying for the services that we benefitted from as children.

"Society" apparently didn't think it was necessary for so many government programs when I was a kid, so why are they necessary now?
 
2013-04-09 01:21:17 PM
8.I Don't Like When Spouses Start to Call Each Other "Mommy" and "Daddy." That's Just Creepy.

If I may expand on a tangent of this one...

One thing that drives me up the wall (especially looking at it from a linguistics-based language acquisition perspective) is when parents refer to themselves in the third person when speaking to their kids.  When "Mommy" herself says something like:  "Mommy is very tired today because Mommy had to spend her entire day cleaning up after you."

Just call yourself "I" and "me".  Take ownership of your statements rather than attributing them to a third-party representation of yourself.  Referring to yourself in the third person is completely inconsistent with the manner in which anyone else will speak to your children.  Call the  otherparent "Mommy" or "Daddy", fine, as that's the name by which the child knows that person.  But to refer to yourself as "Mommy" or "she" goes contrary to all other language observations the child is making, and serves no purpose other than to dismiss the child's considerable mental capabilities for the sake of the parent's desire to feel that they're being cute.

/rant off
 
2013-04-09 01:29:42 PM
ITT: parents being defensive about being unfairly criticized then saying things like;

"You will die alone."
and
"People without kids are fat losers who play WOW in their mother's basement."

I sure hope your spouses are better role models for your children.
 
2013-04-09 01:30:56 PM
Friendly's restaurant is a great place to eat if you like listening to screaming babies and toddlers.
 
2013-04-09 01:31:15 PM

umad: Surpheon: umad: That is fine with me. I suppose you will be fine with us eliminating any programs that didn't exist at the time our parents were raising us as well, which is a shiatload of them.

Go ahead and list 'em out. Try to grasp a bit of reality, or at least respect the big Newt-Clinton welfare ax that fell in the 90's - depending when you were raised, it is entirely likely there was MORE spending on children ('welfare queens' were rare but not extinct in the 70's 80's and early 90's).

WIC started in 1972.
The Earned Income Tax Credit was enacted in 1975.
Per child tax credits have been raised from $400 in 1998 to $1000 today.

I could keep going, but you get the point. If you say I still owe for when I was a kid, then fine. But I should only have to pay for the services that were actually available when I was a kid. Here is where you disagree and say that the rest of us should have to pay for your decisions, because that is what parents actually want.


If the point is that you just cherry pick your side of the argument, sure I get it. But as a child of the 60's, you Know Everything, right? Out of curiosity, how much more does WIC cost versus what preceded  which was state-provide medical care for malnutrition that included, literally, prescriptions for food? Oh, and what is the budget for Aid to Families with Dependent Children that existed when you were a child? Oh yeah, that program was eliminate entirely. And what was the payroll tax in the 60's when you were growing up?

BTW, if you were out of school by 1972 then you owe a shiatLOAD of money to payback your $120k of free schooling considering the interest accrued in the 70's. Not your fault, but the fact your bill (what society paid to give you schooling and social services) was racked up on a credit card with a 10% interest rate while those who were kids in the 80's only had a 5% interest rate makes a huge difference.
 
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