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(BBC)   Original Doctor Who director says there's too much sexuality in the show. It's certainly not coming from the audience   (bbc.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Strange, physicians, Jenna-Louise Coleman, William Hartnell, Billie Piper, Doctor Who, Blue Peter  
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1598 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 08 Apr 2013 at 6:21 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-08 05:02:21 PM  
Actually, it kinda is coming from the audience. The Doctor is no longer driven by a story as much as focus group likes/wishes/dislikes.
 
2013-04-08 06:05:25 PM  

Bob_Laublaw: Actually, it kinda is coming from the audience. The Doctor is no longer driven by a story as much as focus group likes/wishes/dislikes.


I think its a more reflective of the predilections of Russel T. Davis and Stephan Moffat.

Any input from focus groups is just confirmation bias.

And really:  I could have taken it much better if the only companion who carried a torch for The Doctor was Rose, but
to have every single companion of the modern era be sexually attracted to him (not to mention the retconning of Sarah
Jane being in love with him) it indicative of severe psychological problems on the part of the driving forces behind the
show.
 
2013-04-08 06:14:07 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: I think its a more reflective of the predilections of Russel T. Davis and Stephan Moffat.

Any input from focus groups is just confirmation bias.


Good point.
 
2013-04-08 06:15:37 PM  
Enough with farking Doctor Who. Kee-riste.
 
2013-04-08 06:20:27 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: Bob_Laublaw: Actually, it kinda is coming from the audience. The Doctor is no longer driven by a story as much as focus group likes/wishes/dislikes.

I think its a more reflective of the predilections of Russel T. Davis and Stephan Moffat.

Any input from focus groups is just confirmation bias.

And really:  I could have taken it much better if the only companion who carried a torch for The Doctor was Rose, but
to have every single companion of the modern era be sexually attracted to him (not to mention the retconning of Sarah
Jane being in love with him) it indicative of severe psychological problems on the part of the driving forces behind the
show.




T. Baker and E. Slatten did have a sexual tension between them. Actually, Baker flirted heavily with all the gals, except the underaged ones. to the point of marrying a Romana.

Matt Smiths who hasn't been about snogging, except for River-whom he married.
 
2013-04-08 06:25:46 PM  
900+ year old guy chasing after barely-legal girls - what's weird about that?
 
2013-04-08 06:27:59 PM  
I would think half the fun of being a time and space traveling alien would be tapping all that naive young girl ass.
 
2013-04-08 06:29:06 PM  
Darth_Lukecash:
T. Baker and E. Slatten did have a sexual tension between them. Actually, Baker flirted heavily with all the gals, except the underaged ones. to the point of marrying a Romana.

I know that Tom Baker was a bit of a strange bird, but even when I re-watch the older shows I really don't see any
sexual tension except maybe a bit with Lalla Ward's Romana.  There is chemistry, yes, but I never picked it up as
anything more than a sort of big brother/fatherly vibe.

Matt Smiths who hasn't been about snogging, except for River-whom he married.

True enough; but having every single female companion (and Captain Jack) fall madly and obviously in love with
the Doctor has become trite, and is probably what Waris Hussein is reacting against.
 
2013-04-08 06:31:31 PM  
Yes, a show that has been running for half a century doesn't need new ideas...just keep recycling the same things over and over and over and over....

BTW, which episode of Moffat's "Sherlock" was nominated for a bunch of Emmys and was based on one of the best Sherlock Holmes' stories?  That's right- the episode with Sherlock's only "love interest", Irene Adler.  If done right, love add an element of unpredictability to a story.  Especially any story with a super-intelligent protagonist who always beats his enemies.  If done poorly, then we see a bunch of sappy crap.

/will reserve judgment on Clara until we know what's going on with her
//the singing in the last episode was annoying to me, but oh well- I liked the Doctor's speech
 
2013-04-08 06:32:25 PM  
DjangoStonereaver: I think its a more reflective of the predilections of Russel T. Davis and Stephan Moffat.

It's because of Davis that I have a new rule that show writers should follow: if you write slash about two characters, you're not allowed to have anything to do with any episodes where both characters appear. Especially if they're meant to be enemies.

And really:  I could have taken it much better if the only companion who carried a torch for The Doctor was Rose, but
to have every single companion of the modern era be sexually attracted to him (not to mention the retconning of Sarah
Jane being in love with him) it indicative of severe psychological problems on the part of the driving forces behind the
show.


I never really got the impression that Donna was into The Doctor - or if she was, she certainly wasn't into him the degree Rose was. And don't get me started on River Song...
 
2013-04-08 06:34:06 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: Darth_Lukecash:
T. Baker and E. Slatten did have a sexual tension between them. Actually, Baker flirted heavily with all the gals, except the underaged ones. to the point of marrying a Romana.

I know that Tom Baker was a bit of a strange bird, but even when I re-watch the older shows I really don't see any
sexual tension except maybe a bit with Lalla Ward's Romana.  There is chemistry, yes, but I never picked it up as
anything more than a sort of big brother/fatherly vibe.

Matt Smiths who hasn't been about snogging, except for River-whom he married.

True enough; but having every single female companion (and Captain Jack) fall madly and obviously in love with
the Doctor has become trite, and is probably what Waris Hussein is reacting against.


This. I only recently started watching on Netflix, so I'm WAY behind (in S4 now), but it's already bugging me. I liked the Doctor/Rose thing (although the Doctor created by Donna staying behind with Rose thing was... a little weird), but Martha drove me NUTS. She was all over his junk from day one and I just found it really hard to believe. I was really glad Donna was more chill about the whole thing and I was hoping that, in the future, things are more companion-y and less romance-y, otherwise it'll get really old.

/Am excited to see more of River, though, for sure
//Slashies for being way behind but catching up quickly!
 
2013-04-08 06:36:49 PM  
We don't all live in the '60s.  Bring on more sex.  More sex!
 
2013-04-08 06:41:56 PM  
Believable sexuality shouldn't be a problem.  Unbelievable sexuality really is a problem, at least from the audience perspective.  I never felt there was any genuine tension between 10/Martha or 11/River.  That whole marriage thing was completely laughable.  You're actors so...act or something, I don't know.
 
2013-04-08 06:43:44 PM  

gadian: Believable sexuality shouldn't be a problem.  Unbelievable sexuality really is a problem, at least from the audience perspective.  I never felt there was any genuine tension between 10/Martha or 11/River.  That whole marriage thing was completely laughable.  You're actors so...act or something, I don't know.


I always got the impression that the marriage between River and The Doctor only existed in her head. Or maybe I just wish it was like that, since it would be more in character for her...
 
2013-04-08 06:47:40 PM  
NTTIATWWT, but there sure are a lot of gay supporting characters in NuWho. Is this a legacy of RTD or simply typical of modern English television?
 
2013-04-08 06:48:39 PM  

Shedim: gadian:

I always got the impression that the marriage between River and The Doctor only existed in her head. Or maybe I just wish it was like that, since it would be more in character for her...


That would work.  I've just always gotten the impression that 11 is pretty much asexual.  He just doesn't seem like he could be "in" to anyone.
 
2013-04-08 06:50:44 PM  
Waris Hussein

He sounds Muslim.


Satan's Chocolate Starfish: We don't all live in the '60s.  Bring on more sex.  More sex!


Indeed. Especially if it means more of this in tight outfits.

i50.tinypic.com
 
2013-04-08 07:00:49 PM  

Tax Boy: NTTIATWWT, but there sure are a lot of gay supporting characters in NuWho. Is this a legacy of RTD or simply typical of modern English television?


I suspect RTD had quiet a bit to do with it. Mind you, if he was the one responsible for the first real pansexual on TV (Captain Jack) then I'll give him points for it. Still doesn't counteract all the Doctor/Master homoerotic text he had to pack in.

gadian: That would work.  I've just always gotten the impression that 11 is pretty much asexual.  He just doesn't seem like he could be "in" to anyone.


Same here. I think that's part of the reason why Tennant was my least favourite - the "alien" was getting shoved out of the way for "humanising" him. Smith is getting more "alien" back, which I like. Sure, the Doctor can flirt but he's completely asexual and he's never meant to "follow through."

/and now I'm imaging Jim Parsons as the 12th Doctor
//it'll never happen but it's amusing nonetheless
 
2013-04-08 07:01:59 PM  

Shedim: /and now I'm imagining Jim Parsons as the 12th Doctor


Note to self: proofread before posting next time.
 
2013-04-08 07:07:59 PM  

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Enough with farking Doctor Who. Kee-riste.


thaaaaaaaaaank you.

This really came out of left field. I remember my grandfather watching the original version and all the sudden last year, it's apparently a thing again.

yea yea, "stop liking what i don't like"
 
2013-04-08 07:08:48 PM  
It's not Fark, it's Doctor Who dot com!
 
2013-04-08 07:09:28 PM  
Sex is part of the human experience, so if you're going to have an even slightly believable story, there's going to be sex involved.
 
2013-04-08 07:15:58 PM  

fusillade762: Satan's Chocolate Starfish: We don't all live in the '60s.  Bring on more sex.  More sex!

Indeed. Especially if it means more of this in tight outfits.

[i50.tinypic.com image 547x820]


Never mind that, where can I get that watch?
 
2013-04-08 07:20:26 PM  

Tax Boy: NTTIATWWT, but there sure are a lot of gay supporting characters in NuWho. Is this a legacy of RTD or simply typical of modern English television?


Like who? Captain Jack is the only one I can think of. And I wouldn't even describe him as "gay" as much as "omnisexual".
 
2013-04-08 07:24:59 PM  

fusillade762: Tax Boy: NTTIATWWT, but there sure are a lot of gay supporting characters in NuWho. Is this a legacy of RTD or simply typical of modern English television?

Like who? Captain Jack is the only one I can think of. And I wouldn't even describe him as "gay" as much as "omnisexual".


Lizard girl.  But really there's not that many.  There seems to a lot of gay one-offs though.
 
2013-04-08 07:30:49 PM  

Shazam999: fusillade762: Tax Boy: NTTIATWWT, but there sure are a lot of gay supporting characters in NuWho. Is this a legacy of RTD or simply typical of modern English television?

Like who? Captain Jack is the only one I can think of. And I wouldn't even describe him as "gay" as much as "omnisexual".

Lizard girl.  But really there's not that many.  There seems to a lot of gay one-offs though.


The most absurd, to me at least, were the gay engineers that no one really cared to know their sexuality in any form, but here they are.  Nice to meet you! We're the gay engineers! Oh...good for you?    Your proclivities don't even really matter to the story, I don't caaaare.
 
2013-04-08 07:38:10 PM  

gadian: Shazam999: fusillade762: Tax Boy: NTTIATWWT, but there sure are a lot of gay supporting characters in NuWho. Is this a legacy of RTD or simply typical of modern English television?

Like who? Captain Jack is the only one I can think of. And I wouldn't even describe him as "gay" as much as "omnisexual".

Lizard girl.  But really there's not that many.  There seems to a lot of gay one-offs though.

The most absurd, to me at least, were the gay engineers that no one really cared to know their sexuality in any form, but here they are.  Nice to meet you! We're the gay engineers! Oh...good for you?    Your proclivities don't even really matter to the story, I don't caaaare.


That FBI agent too. Delaware Florida, or whatever his name was.
 
2013-04-08 07:38:36 PM  
Rule #1 of time travel is.
Well, have a baseline to return to.
But rule #2 is don't fark the locals.
 
2013-04-08 07:41:51 PM  

Tax Boy: gadian: Shazam999: fusillade762: Tax Boy: NTTIATWWT, but there sure are a lot of gay supporting characters in NuWho. Is this a legacy of RTD or simply typical of modern English television?

Like who? Captain Jack is the only one I can think of. And I wouldn't even describe him as "gay" as much as "omnisexual".

Lizard girl.  But really there's not that many.  There seems to a lot of gay one-offs though.

The most absurd, to me at least, were the gay engineers that no one really cared to know their sexuality in any form, but here they are.  Nice to meet you! We're the gay engineers! Oh...good for you?    Your proclivities don't even really matter to the story, I don't caaaare.

That FBI agent too. Delaware Florida, or whatever his name was.


Got to hand it to the internet: someone has taken the time to catalog ALL the LGBT characters and references from Doctor Who. From ALL the Doctors.

The Evolving Guide to Lesbian/Gay/Bisexual Moments in Doctor Who

Apparently this isn't a new thing.
 
2013-04-08 07:47:19 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: And really:  I could have taken it much better if the only companion who carried a torch for The Doctor was Rose, butto have every single companion of the modern era be sexually attracted to him (not to mention the retconning of SarahJane being in love with him) it indicative of severe psychological problems on the part of the driving forces behind theshow.


Is it though? I'm not a woman, but if I were and a reasonably good looking and affable humanoid alien took me away in his space/time ship to explore things I'd barely conceived of, I'd proooobably fall in love with him too. Hell, I'm not sure I wouldn't even if I was a guy.
 
2013-04-08 08:02:53 PM  
Darth_Lukecash:

Matt Smiths who hasn't been about snogging, except for River-whom he married.

Actually, Matt Smith's Doctor has snogged every single companion that's not a one-off. Granted, he didn't actually want to snog Pond, she went after him, and when he kissed Rory it was a totally non-sexual kiss because he was happy about something Rory did, but yeah, Smith's Doctor has done a lot of snogging.
 
2013-04-08 08:07:23 PM  

Wyalt Derp: 900+ year old guy chasing after barely-legal girls - what's weird about that?


but enough about Jimmy Savile. Oh, you said legal.
 
2013-04-08 08:17:25 PM  

Shedim: gadian: Believable sexuality shouldn't be a problem.  Unbelievable sexuality really is a problem, at least from the audience perspective.  I never felt there was any genuine tension between 10/Martha or 11/River.  That whole marriage thing was completely laughable.  You're actors so...act or something, I don't know.

I always got the impression that the marriage between River and The Doctor only existed in her head. Or maybe I just wish it was like that, since it would be more in character for her...


It's in her head. I know I've trotted this out before....but in "The Wedding of River Song", Amy and River are talking about how Amy kills Madame Kovarian, and River reassures her she's not a bad person because it happened in an aborted timeline that never existed. But....that's the same timeline in which her "wedding" happened. She clearly believes the wedding to be real, even though it was just the Doctor manipulating her into touching him so the universe would "start" again.

River pisses me off. Does it show?
 
2013-04-08 09:06:34 PM  
Sexuality creeping into Doctor Who?  Run by the guy who also wrote this:
i214.photobucket.com

/I can't believe it!
 
2013-04-08 09:09:46 PM  

fusillade762: Apparently this isn't a new thing.


The Doctor is an outsider so it shouldn't be a surprise that gays associate with the show.  The guy who was the last show runner before the reboot was gayer than christmas at bloomingdales and was accused of hitting on every young intern in the place.

/I had a huge crush on Adric
 
2013-04-08 09:24:01 PM  

bborchar: Yes, a show that has been running for half a century doesn't need new ideas...just keep recycling the same things over and over and over and over....

BTW, which episode of Moffat's "Sherlock" was nominated for a bunch of Emmys and was based on one of the best Sherlock Holmes' stories?  That's right- the episode with Sherlock's only "love interest", Irene Adler.  If done right, love add an element of unpredictability to a story.  Especially any story with a super-intelligent protagonist who always beats his enemies.  If done poorly, then we see a bunch of sappy crap.

/will reserve judgment on Clara until we know what's going on with her
//the singing in the last episode was annoying to me, but oh well- I liked the Doctor's speech


Oh that's weird.  I liked the singing and hated the speech.   It reminded me too much of the doctor stuck in the cube episode.
It did feel like The Doctor Horror Picture Show.
 
2013-04-08 09:29:02 PM  

Tax Boy: gadian: Shazam999: fusillade762: Tax Boy: NTTIATWWT, but there sure are a lot of gay supporting characters in NuWho. Is this a legacy of RTD or simply typical of modern English television?

Like who? Captain Jack is the only one I can think of. And I wouldn't even describe him as "gay" as much as "omnisexual".

Lizard girl.  But really there's not that many.  There seems to a lot of gay one-offs though.

The most absurd, to me at least, were the gay engineers that no one really cared to know their sexuality in any form, but here they are.  Nice to meet you! We're the gay engineers! Oh...good for you?    Your proclivities don't even really matter to the story, I don't caaaare.

That FBI agent too. Delaware Florida, or whatever his name was.


And the 2 old married ladies stuck in the car driving in circles for years trying to get into New New New York.
 
2013-04-08 09:37:12 PM  

gingerjet: fusillade762: Apparently this isn't a new thing.

The Doctor is an outsider so it shouldn't be a surprise that gays associate with the show.  The guy who was the last show runner before the reboot was gayer than christmas at bloomingdales and was accused of hitting on every young intern in the place.

/I had a huge crush on Adric


And, on Torchwood, the only reason that Ianto didn't get killed off in the episode with his Cyberwoman girlfriend as originally intended was because RTD thought that Gareth David Lloyd was hot. It was also originally supposed to be Ianto, not Owen, who got turned into a zombie, but again, RTD had a thing for Gareth David Lloyd and kept him around for the better part of the next season.

Of course, on the flip side, half of the key plot points on Queer as Folk seemed to revolve around Vince's Doctor Who obsession, so it's not like RTD can't be accused of cross-pollinating his various TV shows in general.
 
2013-04-08 09:58:19 PM  

gadian: I would think half the fun of being a time and space traveling alien would be tapping all that naive young girl ass.


Face it. Even the Doctor knows you can't out-giggity James T. Kirk.
 
2013-04-08 10:20:05 PM  

bborchar: Yes, a show that has been running for half a century doesn't need new ideas...just keep recycling the same things over and over and over and over....

BTW, which episode of Moffat's "Sherlock" was nominated for a bunch of Emmys and was based on one of the best Sherlock Holmes' stories?  That's right- the episode with Sherlock's only "love interest", Irene Adler.  If done right, love add an element of unpredictability to a story.  Especially any story with a super-intelligent protagonist who always beats his enemies.  If done poorly, then we see a bunch of sappy crap.

/will reserve judgment on Clara until we know what's going on with her
//the singing in the last episode was annoying to me, but oh well- I liked the Doctor's speech



That story is awesome for precisely the reasons the Sherlock episode featuring Irene Adler is not.
To think a story written in Victorian England remains more progressive than Moffat's "imaginative", "fresh" take on a female character.

//Slightly off topic. But. Yeah.
 
2013-04-08 10:20:43 PM  
I think everyone is missing a big point here comparing the reboot 2000 series to the Original Doctor Who.

The Original Doctor Who was a CHILDREN'S shows in England. (or a geek show...whatever). Rather a bit of 'scary monster' of the week show. But in 4 episode format to 'tune in next week'.
When it hit the USA with PBS those shows were knitted into 2 hour blocks. And in the 70's 80's stoners and USA geeks loved the british humor and crappy effects.

The reboot 2000 is Doctor Who 'all grown up'...it's not shown as a kids show, or in a timeslot for children.
 
2013-04-08 10:23:29 PM  

TV's Vinnie: gadian: I would think half the fun of being a time and space traveling alien would be tapping all that naive young girl ass.

Face it. Even the Doctor knows you can't out-giggity James T. Kirk.


The Doctor has been out-giggitying Kirk before, during, and after he was born (but not necessarily in that order).
 
2013-04-08 10:36:30 PM  

DrSkeet: That story is awesome for precisely the reasons the Sherlock episode featuring Irene Adler is not.
To think a story written in Victorian England remains more progressive than Moffat's "imaginative", "fresh" take on a female character.

//Slightly off topic. But. Yeah.


Gah! That grated the hell out of me too.  So not only does Moffat Sherlock beat Adler (something that Doyle's Sherlock didn't do), but he had to save her life and ultimately be responsible for her escape.  Way to show some love for the ladies, Moffat.
 
2013-04-08 10:58:04 PM  
The early doctors were a lot more sinister.

Didn't the first one essentially kidnap the girl?
 
2013-04-08 11:11:30 PM  
Agree with most of the above... Martha Jones was a good character ruined by an utterly forced romantic subplot. She had the brains to be a fine platonic companion... and it made no sense after Rose.

gadian: Believable sexuality shouldn't be a problem.  Unbelievable sexuality really is a problem, at least from the audience perspective.  I never felt there was any genuine tension between 10/Martha or 11/River.  That whole marriage thing was completely laughable.  You're actors so...act or something, I don't know.


I wonder if the age difference between Matt Smith and Alex Kingston contributes to a lack of chemistry.

/the "final check" before he saw River did make me chuckle
 
2013-04-08 11:35:35 PM  
A man shows up in your life during a cataclysmic event.
He is mysterious, kind, unspeakably brilliant, witty, handsome and apparently unattached.
He saves your life and possibly those of others you care about.
He offers to take you with him to anywhere in space and time in a traveling mansion.
His life is one of danger and excitement but he never abandons you and risks his life repeatedly to keep you safe.

I can't fathom why someone WOULDN'T be attracted to him.

The question isn't "Why is there so much romance now?" but "Why hasn't it always been there?"
 
2013-04-08 11:42:03 PM  
Barbara was hot in season 1.
 
2013-04-09 12:18:38 AM  

gingerjet: Sexuality creeping into Doctor Who?  Run by the guy who also wrote this:
[i214.photobucket.com image 333x250]

/I can't believe it!


It's interesting that Mayor Carcetti/Littlefinger was in that show.....
 
2013-04-09 12:21:05 AM  

fusillade762: Tax Boy: gadian: Shazam999: fusillade762: Tax Boy: NTTIATWWT, but there sure are a lot of gay supporting characters in NuWho. Is this a legacy of RTD or simply typical of modern English television?

Like who? Captain Jack is the only one I can think of. And I wouldn't even describe him as "gay" as much as "omnisexual".

Lizard girl.  But really there's not that many.  There seems to a lot of gay one-offs though.

The most absurd, to me at least, were the gay engineers that no one really cared to know their sexuality in any form, but here they are.  Nice to meet you! We're the gay engineers! Oh...good for you?    Your proclivities don't even really matter to the story, I don't caaaare.

That FBI agent too. Delaware Florida, or whatever his name was.

Got to hand it to the internet: someone has taken the time to catalog ALL the LGBT characters and references from Doctor Who. From ALL the Doctors.

The Evolving Guide to Lesbian/Gay/Bisexual Moments in Doctor Who

Apparently this isn't a new thing.


Yeah that list is mostly tongue-in-cheek.  Or wherever else tongues can go.
 
2013-04-09 12:22:47 AM  

optikeye: I think everyone is missing a big point here comparing the reboot 2000 series to the Original Doctor Who.

The Original Doctor Who was a CHILDREN'S shows in England. (or a geek show...whatever). Rather a bit of 'scary monster' of the week show. But in 4 episode format to 'tune in next week'.
When it hit the USA with PBS those shows were knitted into 2 hour blocks. And in the 70's 80's stoners and USA geeks loved the british humor and crappy effects.

The reboot 2000 is Doctor Who 'all grown up'...it's not shown as a kids show, or in a timeslot for children.


The show is on BBC1 in the UK at 18:00 (6PM). That's still a reasonable time for children. And it's apparently quite popular with the youth in primary school upwards (age 5-11).
 
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