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(RedState)   MSNBC host films a commercial saying that children don't belong to their parents or their families, but to their communities at large. This is an outrage, apparently   (redstate.com) divider line 59
    More: Interesting, MSNBC, Melissa Harris-Perry, state ownership, soylent greens, families  
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2898 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Apr 2013 at 6:52 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-04-08 07:20:40 PM  
5 votes:
I am so tired of the right making false dichotomy arguments.

If you think the world only has two options of extremes, you are an idiot.
2013-04-08 06:02:00 PM  
5 votes:
Isn't the whole small town thing where everyone knows your parents and keeps you in line a major component of what the bootstrappy types think merica should return to?
2013-04-08 06:54:30 PM  
4 votes:
Jesus Christ, I just lost about 10 IQ points reading this thread.
2013-04-08 02:37:37 PM  
4 votes:
Why is it that always when some one sees something that says government isn't the be all end all they go crazy? My son was MY RESPONSIBILITY, I do not want someone who was indoctrinated by the state ie teachers telling me how to raise my children. So you take the most brain dead path, what about child abuse?  Child abuse is already illegal and is punishable by up to life in jail. My son is well adjusted and smart has a well paying job and independent. He only spent the last two years of high school in public abuse buildings. The public schools do not teach ANYTHING!!! They teach "feel good". When over 50% of inner city school kids cannot read at a 2nd grade level when they graduate high school you people want more of public education? I had my son doing algebra when he was in the 3rd grade. Take responsibility and work hard to raise you child to be ready to face the world. Leave the government out of the picture, just because someone works for the government does NOT make them an angel or smart, just someone who failed at all else. My parents who were both teachers used to say "Those who can do, those who can't teach". And yes I truly loved my parents and miss them every day.
2013-04-08 02:11:11 PM  
4 votes:
So Redstate, since children apparently 'belong' to only their parents, if said parents choose to abuse, neglect, or starve their children it's all good, right?
2013-04-09 12:41:45 AM  
2 votes:

EvilRacistNaziFascist: nocturnal001: The reality is that private enterprise never developed the interstate system, didn't develop a railroad system without serious government help, didn't develop the internet etc. etc.

I've already established that I'm a conservative rather than a libertarian, but I'd just like you ask you a question: where do you think the all- benevolent State got the money from to pay for all these wonderful innovations? It is, regrettably, capitalist free enterprise that generates the wealth, that in turn creates the tax-base, that in turn makes government spending (whether well-directed or not) possible to begin with. And here's another question: what great enterprises has the government given us recently? And if there are fewer great enterprises in the US -- such as dams and power plants and space programmes, etc. -- than there have been in the past, why do you think that might be?

And that doesn't even touch on the insane levels of transaction costs that would be imposed upon every single transaction in society without government intervention. Sure the free market will make sure ultimately that Soda Brand X doesn't contain poison, but glazing over the few people killed for the market to learn that,

In reality, a vanishingly small number of people have ever died from drinking poison soda. But over the past one hundred years alone something like 125 million people have been directly murdered by their governments. This is why the idea of regarding governments as inherently benevolent entities whose only mission is to save us from ourselves is dangerously naive. Again, I am not a libertarian and I am not opposed to the reasonable regulation of foodstuffs -- but if you think the free market is anywhere near as great a danger to your health as uncontrolled levels of government, you are completely ignorant of history.

I'm sadly old-fashioned, so I tend to look at these issues from a moral perspective. I assume that individual human beings are naturally fallible and co ...


I'm saddened that you are so pants shiatingly frightened of collective action in society.  Yes, government and government like entities have been responsible for the vast majority of large scale repression and organized murder.  But you will also find that those that did operated with a complete lack of transparency.  We are fortunate to not live under such conditions.  That being said, without an organized society we'd still be a marginal species on the African savanna.  Without those structures, rules, and enforcement, we'd still be Thog and Ogg, hoping to live long enough to reproduce.  100s of millions wouldn't have been killed, billions would never have lived.

And the free market does darn little to stem poisoning.  You are only thinking of a near instant toxin.  Try looking at what "free enterprise" did to NJ until the clean water act and the creation of the superfund cleanups.  The Passaic river burned regularly.  Fish kills washed up regularly.  To the point it wasn't even news.  And the problems continue today - it's damn expensive to dredge the Hudson river waterways because down in the sediment on the bottom of the river is layer upon layer of heavy metals - somewhat safe now because they are covered by more recent sediment - but disturbed you get another fish kill.  And all those heavy metals went into the food chain - sometimes directly into the local residents.  How about all the asbestosis sufferers from John's Manville and Co.?  Half of Manville NJ suffered from it.  Where does the free market help them?  The free market would have said "tough shiat, die".  And kept right on killing.  Same with lead.  Same with nearly any toxic, useful substance.

You live in a state of ignorance about how things work.  Left to their own devices humans will maim and kill their fellow man for purely short term gain.  Only collectively, in a transparent manner, with continual engagement, yelling and screaming at each other in a messy, socially connected system do we have any hope of ending that.

That means government, and lots of it.  Instead of being frightened of it - get involved.  Do you know your local government officials on sight?   Have you ever written your legislative representatives at the state, local or federal level?  Are you on all their mailing lists?  Do you write to the various government agencies when they have open public comments on things they do?  Do you actively support a political party? With more than just a check?  Do you support other groups in public advocacy?

I think you will answer no to most of these.  You sound like you want the government to be some perpetual motion machine - no friction and no inputs.  Sorry, it doesn't work that way.  As with most things in life, you get out what you put in.
2013-04-08 10:35:50 PM  
2 votes:

Philbb: I find the conservative backlash a bit odd since it seems that conservatives are the ones that talk most often about the old days when people knew each other and you couldn't get away with anything in front of any neighborhood parent because they talked with your parents.


I'm not certain what your concern is here; conservatives appreciate the coherence of organic communities, but are suspicious of the claimed prerogatives of the State -- and the State is not a community. Traditional conservatives, as opposed to the mercenary right-liberals who increasingly claim the label of "conservative" today, believe that the ideal society would be bound together by ties of culture, values, and (as much as possible) kinship through shared descent. Since Western societies have become increasingly balkanized and atomized, many now look to government to provide us with things we either provided to ourselves in the past or were helped with by our neighbours, which is unequivocally a bad thing because the government is not made up of our neighbours or by people like us (unless you happen to live in Georgetown); the government does not love us or even have a fond regard for people like us, but patronizes us as ruling elites have perennially done to their subjects throughout the ages. As a result, its aid comes with far too many unwanted strings attached (and is very often unsustainable economically in the long term in any case).

I have no problem with the idea of my neighbours in a small and tight-knit community watching out for my children -- although naturally that would not mean that the neighbours had the same kind of claim upon or relationship with my children as I do; it doesn't "take a village to raise a child" so much as it takes parents to do so, with extended family and the wider community at large helping when necessary. I would however have a serious problem with a stranger from the State, who is by no means guaranteed to have anyone's best interests at heart, claiming an equal right to my children because of whatever misguided ideology they happen to be guided by. Bear in mind that there is ample historical precedent of tyrannical societies interfering with parental rights over their children in order to secure the obedience and indoctrination of those children for the service of Church or State -- though this fact may be surprising to those who have themselves been conditioned via public education to believe that governments are inherently benevolent and can be trusted to look after us and solve all of our problems.
2013-04-08 09:23:17 PM  
2 votes:

indylaw: Children aren't property. However, as a general rule, it's the prerogative of parents themselves and not the nosy biatch down the street to raise children.


yes, but that nosy biatch down the road has some stake in your child's ability to become a productive member of society.
(your neighbors more than their neighbors -- but everyone gains a little)
2013-04-08 08:37:43 PM  
2 votes:
I don't know how anyone sane can stay politically involved in the USA. The political landscape is just a tardstorm.
2013-04-08 07:04:41 PM  
2 votes:

Lando Lincoln: Type_Hard: Didn't this same reaction happen after Hillary published "It Takes a Village"?

Yeah, pretty much. Most homeschoolers / religious nutjobs are horrified at the thought of someone teaching their kids something that they don't approve of.


Social conservatism is the fear that someone, somewhere, is teaching your children to be smarter than you.
2013-04-08 06:59:13 PM  
2 votes:

gilgigamesh: Jesus Christ, I just lost about 10 IQ points reading this thread.


I think putting "MSNBC" in the headline is like ringing the troll dinner bell.
2013-04-08 06:09:41 PM  
2 votes:

maxalt: words



Dude, you really need to be more subtle if you're gonna make a run at this trolling business.
2013-04-08 05:46:10 PM  
2 votes:
Raising kids through a communal system is arguably a conservative idea. The only problem is that conservatives have so internalized the idea that self-interest is in everyone's interest that they forgot that kids actually can't raise themselves. Now we actually do need the government to provide some basic level of services.

Or maybe they think it's good that kids are being educated on Baltimore street corners instead of in school.
2013-04-08 03:49:30 PM  
2 votes:

Diogenes: Republicans and/or conservatives were people who supported communalism for much of our history.  It's amazing how reviled the very idea has become.  It was during Reagan's days that they started to demonize it at every level.


And Democrats were the ones who defended slavery

People change. Idea's change. The political world we live in is much different than those days.
2013-04-08 03:07:22 PM  
2 votes:

Dinki: So Redstate, since children apparently 'belong' to only their parents, if said parents Community chooses to abuse, neglect, or starve their children instill a proper respect for themselves and others in society, it's all good, right?

/it takes a village
2013-04-08 02:53:13 PM  
2 votes:
So a commentator says something along the lines that raising children is a civic responsibility.

To republican ears, that means, "ZOMG, OBAMA SAYS THE GOVERNMENT IS COMING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR KIDS!!"

Call me crazy, but I am detecting a pattern here.
2013-04-08 02:19:46 PM  
2 votes:
The people of perpetual shock and horror.
2013-04-08 02:19:30 PM  
2 votes:
The community has no role or responsibility for children.

Unless libs want to teach them science, right RedState?
2013-04-09 08:58:39 AM  
1 votes:

Heraclitus: Corporations are people too my friends.

Once they make sure you and your wife are working 4 jobs AND trying to homeschool your kids, they want an opportunity to prove they can raise your kids for you. At a profit!

/ Just before they prove you're an unfit parent when you get sent to debtors prison for getting behind on your 2 Million dollar hospital bills...

// Wanna buy my kid for a kidney?

/// YAY "Free" Market Capitalism!


Lately they seem to be actually above people. Doesn't make any sense that a corporation has rights like freedom of speech, yet if a corporation does something criminaly negligent, management/owners are protected unless they did something wrong themselves.

My favorite example is when BofA was forclosing on people that never even had a mortgage with them.  One lady had her locks changed, and her stuff thrown out onto the street by BofA agents.

Were I to break into somebody's home and throw their stuff on the street I would be arrested for B&E and wouldn't be able to say "whoops, lol, I thought she owed me mortgage payments".  I totaly get why people involved in a corporation are protected by that status, but you can't have your cake and eat it to.  How can you have the rights of a person but not the legal responsibilities?
2013-04-09 08:28:22 AM  
1 votes:

nocturnal001: EvilRacistNaziFascist: I Like Bread: The free market will sort it out. When word gets around that those parents starve their children, no one will want to buy children from them.

Look: someone else who can't tell the difference between libertarianism and anarchy... I haven't read the whole thread, has anybody said the "LOL GO TO SOMALIA" thing yet? That one's a classic (and easily the modern equivalent of "if you don't like it here, go to Russia").

Those arguments may not be compelling, but neither are the ones we receive from the libertarians.  What strikes me is that this philosophy is all about what ifs, never about "this actually happened".

The reality is that private enterprise never developed the interstate system, didn't develop a railroad system without serious government help, didn't develop the internet etc. etc.

And that doesn't even touch on the insane levels of transaction costs that would be imposed upon every single transaction in society without government intervention. Sure the free market will make sure ultimately that Soda Brand X doesn't contain poison, but glazing over the few people killed for the market to learn that, do you guys really think anyone would try new products in that enviornment? Every single thing we did would be a long and drawn out process to mitigate the risk that government regulation mitigates for us.

No doubt government is in fact a non-producing drain on human enterprise, but in what it takes it absolutely can faciliate far greater growth as risks are reduced.  Yeah, I could take 29 different private highways to get around the US, but just dealing with the billing systems for 29 companies would cost me a fortune if I owned a trucking company.


Well the other problem of such unfettered free markets is that the competition left to itself is corrupt and always finds ways to end real competition - for example with the early railways and industry you see small successful companies growing (which is good), but then they get big enough so they can dominate the market (often at both ends, consumers and their workers) and end competition. Equally the competition is rarely "fair" - there is the example of the early unregulated phone companies in London, which meant lots of companies setting up redundant wires on rooftops that already had wiring from other companies - and of course if the competitors wires accidentally got broken when fitting a new line for your company, well all the better.

The market also rewards lying to your customers - well established in the food industry, from the old history of hand shaping raspberry "pips" from bits of wood and adding sawdust and alum to bread, and adding lead citrate (poisonous of course) to watered down milk to make it look creamy again, right up to the modern day of breeding smaller fruits and vegetables where they are sold "per unit", injecting water into chicken breasts to bulk up the weight, or inserting extra "connective tissue" into meat products until it is just under the government limits of what is acceptable, which shows that nothing has changed on the business side of things, just government slowly erodes away the most egregious forms of swindling that companies have been caught doing over time. The free market is always flexible enough to find new ways to sidestep existing legislation and cheat the customer out of more profits, but it takes a while for the industry to adapt and things improve for a while at least, and each cheat is on average less problematic than past ones.
2013-04-09 05:53:35 AM  
1 votes:
This sounds perfectly reasonable to those who reject the idea of personal responsibility and embrace the theory that there is no right or wrong.
2013-04-09 02:35:28 AM  
1 votes:
Its truel   The state owns your ass.  Even Elvis got drafted.

2wheeltuesday.com
2013-04-09 12:07:33 AM  
1 votes:

FlippityFlap: The amount of comments I can't see almost makes me want to turn off the filters....

/Almost.


This thread brought all the Usual Suspects to the yard. And a couple of headscratching new ones.
2013-04-08 11:47:44 PM  
1 votes:

nocturnal001: The reality is that private enterprise never developed the interstate system, didn't develop a railroad system without serious government help, didn't develop the internet etc. etc.


I've already established that I'm a conservative rather than a libertarian, but I'd just like you ask you a question: where do you think the all- benevolent State got the money from to pay for all these wonderful innovations? It is, regrettably, capitalist free enterprise that generates the wealth, that in turn creates the tax-base, that in turn makes government spending (whether well-directed or not) possible to begin with. And here's another question: what great enterprises has the government given us recently? And if there are fewer great enterprises in the US -- such as dams and power plants and space programmes, etc. -- than there have been in the past, why do you think that might be?

And that doesn't even touch on the insane levels of transaction costs that would be imposed upon every single transaction in society without government intervention. Sure the free market will make sure ultimately that Soda Brand X doesn't contain poison, but glazing over the few people killed for the market to learn that,

In reality, a vanishingly small number of people have ever died from drinking poison soda. But over the past one hundred years alone something like 125 million people have been directly murdered by their governments. This is why the idea of regarding governments as inherently benevolent entities whose only mission is to save us from ourselves is dangerously naive. Again, I am not a libertarian and I am not opposed to the reasonable regulation of foodstuffs -- but if you think the free market is anywhere near as great a danger to your health as uncontrolled levels of government, you are completely ignorant of history.

I'm sadly old-fashioned, so I tend to look at these issues from a moral perspective. I assume that individual human beings are naturally fallible and corruptible, and that when they join together to form associations and institutions the fallibility and corruptibility are correspondingly magnified. This is why (although no Utopia is ever possible) a decentralized society is ultimately preferable, because the amount of human evil and its potential for ill- effects are minimized at a local level. The reason why the free market, even with its flaws, is preferable to big government is because each merchant in a free market is a finite entity. You drink X soda, it tastes like sh*t, you don't buy it again; you switch to Y soda, which is better. (Or stick to drinking water, which is best of all!) But the government, with its monopoly of force, is theoretically infinite in its reach. It can offer a product -- no matter how shoddy -- and forbid anyone else from offering the same kind of product; it can even compel you to consume its product (e.g. as in those countries where public education is mandatory and private education and/or homeschooling are forbidden). The government is always the greatest potential abuser because of its authority to discipline and punish. And why, if we are willing to always assume the worst of a private company who cannot compel us to do anything, should we be so willing to always assume the best of a government which can compel us to do everything?
2013-04-08 10:16:55 PM  
1 votes:

maxalt: Work and you will, one day, if you work HARD, be one of the people how makes too much money


This is why everyone who toils behind the counter of a fast food restaurant is a millionaire.
2013-04-08 10:08:09 PM  
1 votes:

maxalt: James!: maxalt: Try passing a 9th grade passing test to graduate

I'm sure your son had a tip-top education.

Yes my son is now a private contractor making a lot more than you do I suspect. Why do you worry about what some one else makes? I guy long ago taught me " I don't care if the other guy makes more money than I do, I just want to make more money than I do". Work and you will, one day, if you work HARD, be one of the people how makes too much money. I have a life long friend who started in the music business in the late 1960's. He was starving, he would come and eat at my house, sleep in the basement, I would make his car payment, but he kept on and on struggling in the music business. Now he manages BIG time bands, , he worked his whole life hard to be where he is, he probably makes more in a year than you will make in your life time. Should all his work in freezing clubs in Michigan, days without food, sleeping in his car in the winter in Michigan, belong to someone else? He didn't earn that? Your jealously is just sickening, go out and try, if you fail try again. Keep trying until you are successful. Then tell me you owe you success to someone else, or government


i.imgur.com
2013-04-08 09:46:52 PM  
1 votes:

TsukasaK: Secondly, RP's only Republican in that that's his registered party.. his views are more libertarian than anything


No, his views are pretty fascist, but only on a state level.
2013-04-08 09:43:18 PM  
1 votes:

wndertwin: maxalt:  Try passing a 9th grade passing test to graduate to high school from the 1880's. The tests are available on the internet. Then rate youself as to education.

maxalt: Except those of us who are successful don't to troll, we say what we know to be true.

Do you meanthis purported  9th grade test from 1895 that was debunked as fake?

Keep telling us what you know is true....


I can tell you this I had to pass an exit exam to get out of High School  in 1968. It included math, science, biology, history, English and if you could not read at a college level, you would get a diploma that reflected that you were not up to the standards of achievement needed for college. Harsh maybe but that  non college diploma was a one way ticket to Vietnam, so believe me kids worked for that sheep skin, and no I did not think Vietnam was right. Any way I tire of this, most young people are socialists, that is until the time comes when it starts to cost them money, then capitalism here I come.
2013-04-08 09:38:55 PM  
1 votes:

maxalt: Cheesus: maxalt: Why is it that always when some one sees something that says government isn't the be all end all they go crazy? My son was MY RESPONSIBILITY, I do not want someone who was indoctrinated by the state ie teachers telling me how to raise my children. So you take the most brain dead path, what about child abuse?  Child abuse is already illegal and is punishable by up to life in jail. My son is well adjusted and smart has a well paying job and independent. He only spent the last two years of high school in public abuse buildings. The public schools do not teach ANYTHING!!! They teach "feel good". When over 50% of inner city school kids cannot read at a 2nd grade level when they graduate high school you people want more of public education? I had my son doing algebra when he was in the 3rd grade. Take responsibility and work hard to raise you child to be ready to face the world. Leave the government out of the picture, just because someone works for the government does NOT make them an angel or smart, just someone who failed at all else. My parents who were both teachers used to say "Those who can do, those who can't teach". And yes I truly loved my parents and miss them every day.

I'm confused.  Your parents were teachers, indicating they were "indoctrinated by the state," and they were people that "couldn't."

Do you possibly think that inner city school kids have such a rough time because their parents don't give a damn?  Teachers can only do so much.  It's up to the kid to apply themselves and actually learn what they've been taught, and it's up to parents to push them along in the right direction.  Public school has its faults to be sure, but I learned quite a bit.  Math and computing interested me, so I pushed myself in those courses.  English never interested me, but I make do.  I am spell well and grammar good.

Yea they were socialists, they often said "By each according to his needs to each according to his deeds". That was a common refrain amo ...


WTF am I reading?
2013-04-08 09:13:33 PM  
1 votes:

Almost Everybody Poops: However, they did teach us to be tolerant of others views, so that's what they might be afraid of.


Indeed. That entire concept is anathema to conservatives.


And before some threadshiatter makes a smartass comment, tolerance does not extend to intolerance. I reserve the right to hate haters.
2013-04-08 09:13:24 PM  
1 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: And here we have what Fark Mods would consider a perfect thread; shiat on beyond belief by troll accounts.


This was never a good thread. The topic was incredibly stupid.

We might as well have just posted pictures of ponies, it's just as productive.
2013-04-08 09:11:23 PM  
1 votes:
And here we have what Fark Mods would consider a perfect thread; shiat on beyond belief by troll accounts.
2013-04-08 09:04:38 PM  
1 votes:

Cletus C.: Her message implies communities as a whole have not stepped up to support education for children who are not their own. Not true. Communities pass levies and bonds of all sorts. If it were only the parents voting yes on these measures none would pass.


I don't think her argument is that the community has done nothing to support children, I'm pretty sure it's that the community hasn't done enough. I know it's a lot to ask, but if you could just read the first line quoted in the article you'll see it contains the phrase "as much ... as we should".

And it's hard to argue that she's wrong, at least in certain contexts. How often do parents work to provide educational opportunities for children they didn't spawn? How often do non-parents work to provide educational opportunities for anyone at all? Have we designed the school day around the demands of effective education, or around the convenience of workday childcare? Etc., etc., etc.

Or in more general terms, what are we doing to end the 1500+ deaths every year attributed to mistreatment of children by their caretakers? Our society makes children -- particularly children below school age -- the almost exclusive responsibility of 1 or 2 adults, which is a terrible thing to do to both our children and their caretakers. We should work to ensure that every child gets a fair shake at life, regardless of their lineage, and that caretakers are supported in role of raising the next generation. That cannot happen so long as children are considered an extension of their parents, rather than people in and of their own right.
2013-04-08 08:13:53 PM  
1 votes:

glassa: Anyone saying something like that is NOT a mother...PERIOD!


So the fact that she has a daughter means...what, exactly?
2013-04-08 08:13:47 PM  
1 votes:
fark you, i dont want any part of your shiatty children.
2013-04-08 08:13:05 PM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: Mrtraveler01: tenpoundsofcheese: Mrtraveler01: tenpoundsofcheese: The obvious problem is that since the government wants to take your guns as well as your kids they have NOT specified how they will make sure that the kids are not going to be playing with the guns.

Unless of course the government really doesn't care if they do...probably because they are buying up all the ammo.

This post lacks effort.

Yes, what you posted did lack effort.  How self-aware you are.  Next time it is easier if you just don't post if you already understand that you post lacks effort.

You call that an insult?

No not at all.
I am just pointing out that I agree with you.
You said  "This post lacks effort".
I agree that you the post you created lacked effort.

Why would you view that as an insult?


These posts are pretty weak.

I'm with the other guys, the posts today are weak sauce.
2013-04-08 08:07:13 PM  
1 votes:

glassa: Lawyers With Nukes: So kiddo, you think you own that business you started, that little lemonade stand on the corner?

Scratch that...you think you own that body you occupy right now? Oh really?

Sure, you made it from scratch, but someone else had to help you out to get it started.
And who grew the food you ate all your life? Who regulated the food producers, to ensure it was safe and nutritious?
Who built and regulated the roads, so that food could get to market, and land on your dinner table?
And who took care of that body you when it got sick? Who regulated the healthcare industry, and subsidized student loans so that doctors could get trained?
Who defended your body from physical harm, when imaginary brown people, pissed-off by years of US foreign policy, came to blow it up?
And so on, and so on, and so on.

Just so you know the score, you own nothing, not even yourself. "We" own everything.

AND WE OWN YOUR ASS.

Yep, that sounds about right for liberals.


What the hell is with the Derp Squadron lately?  We expect lame, but this is an insult to lame.  If you guys aren't feeling up to it, maybe you should take a break and recharge those batteries.
2013-04-08 08:05:45 PM  
1 votes:

Mrtraveler01: tenpoundsofcheese: Mrtraveler01: tenpoundsofcheese: The obvious problem is that since the government wants to take your guns as well as your kids they have NOT specified how they will make sure that the kids are not going to be playing with the guns.

Unless of course the government really doesn't care if they do...probably because they are buying up all the ammo.

This post lacks effort.

Yes, what you posted did lack effort.  How self-aware you are.  Next time it is easier if you just don't post if you already understand that you post lacks effort.

You call that an insult?


I'm not sure if he's overworked or drinking more, or both, but I'm genuinely starting to worry about him.
2013-04-08 08:03:09 PM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: Mrtraveler01: tenpoundsofcheese: The obvious problem is that since the government wants to take your guns as well as your kids they have NOT specified how they will make sure that the kids are not going to be playing with the guns.

Unless of course the government really doesn't care if they do...probably because they are buying up all the ammo.

This post lacks effort.

Yes, what you posted did lack effort.  How self-aware you are.  Next time it is easier if you just don't post if you already understand that you post lacks effort.


You call that an insult?
2013-04-08 07:49:15 PM  
1 votes:

maxalt: Why is it that always when some one sees something that says government isn't the be all end all they go crazy? My son was MY RESPONSIBILITY, I do not want someone who was indoctrinated by the state ie teachers telling me how to raise my children. So you take the most brain dead path, what about child abuse?  Child abuse is already illegal and is punishable by up to life in jail. My son is well adjusted and smart has a well paying job and independent. He only spent the last two years of high school in public abuse buildings. The public schools do not teach ANYTHING!!! They teach "feel good". When over 50% of inner city school kids cannot read at a 2nd grade level when they graduate high school you people want more of public education? I had my son doing algebra when he was in the 3rd grade. Take responsibility and work hard to raise you child to be ready to face the world. Leave the government out of the picture, just because someone works for the government does NOT make them an angel or smart, just someone who failed at all else. My parents who were both teachers used to say "Those who can do, those who can't teach". And yes I truly loved my parents and miss them every day.


^^^AMEN!
2013-04-08 07:42:17 PM  
1 votes:

indylaw: Children aren't property. However, as a general rule, it's the prerogative of parents themselves and not the nosy biatch down the street to raise children.


No one is suggesting otherwise.

MHP was making an obvious reference to the idea that a solid public education system is essential to a functioning progressive modern society.

For some reason, this fairly innocuous idea causes epic frothing from our friends on the right.
2013-04-08 07:08:30 PM  
1 votes:
See, if you think it's bad reading it on the blog here, you should try listening to him do it on the radio show.  Which he was just doing about 10-20 minutes ago (just got home) on my ride home.

Plays clip of her making a generic feel-good statement about how communities need to care more about each other kids.  Which makes sense, based on sociology and criminology, because the kids your neighbors raise become the adults your kids will have to deal with.  So you're helping your kids by making sure that everyone around you is getting the best education and that your neighbor has someone who'll stop his kid from getting into trouble and such.

Right after the clip, within seconds, he's going on about how she "REALLY" means that she wants your kids to be federal government property.  He'd been selling it for about an hour as "MHP supports bringing back slavery" and such.  And now he was taking her rather bland statement and turning it into "DER DAMN GUBMINT GON TAKE YER KIDZ."  So glad I got home shortly after, or I might've gone into a coma from the pure rays of stupidity coming out of the radio.
2013-04-08 06:58:39 PM  
1 votes:

maxalt: Why is it that always when some one sees something that says government isn't the be all end all they go crazy? My son was MY RESPONSIBILITY, I do not want someone who was indoctrinated by the state ie teachers telling me how to raise my children. So you take the most brain dead path, what about child abuse?  Child abuse is already illegal and is punishable by up to life in jail. My son is well adjusted and smart has a well paying job and independent. He only spent the last two years of high school in public abuse buildings. The public schools do not teach ANYTHING!!! They teach "feel good". When over 50% of inner city school kids cannot read at a 2nd grade level when they graduate high school you people want more of public education? I had my son doing algebra when he was in the 3rd grade. Take responsibility and work hard to raise you child to be ready to face the world. Leave the government out of the picture, just because someone works for the government does NOT make them an angel or smart, just someone who failed at all else. My parents who were both teachers used to say "Those who can do, those who can't teach". And yes I truly loved my parents and miss them every day.


If it wasn't for liberal do-gooders, child abuse would not be illegal.
2013-04-08 06:31:54 PM  
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: Wow. Your favorites list looks a lot like my ignore list. Except for PN of course.


C'mon, Mike_LowELL is a wonderful troll.  He makes me laugh a lot, though he can be hit and miss at times.  He and PN are the only ones on there right now.  maxalt makes me laugh sometimes, too.  Especially when someone like tenpoundsofcheese jumps in and agrees because he thinks he finally found someone of like mind.  Brilliant.  I keep meaning to put alywa on there, but keep forgetting.
2013-04-08 06:14:56 PM  
1 votes:
Cool, so liberals are saying I should be able to spank little brats when their bleeding heart parents won't.
2013-04-08 06:10:40 PM  
1 votes:
The ingenious Pocket Ninja and my favorite troll Mike_LowELL are the only people I have favorited right now.  But keep it up, maxalt, and you can join the list.  I particularly like haw tenpoundsofcheese is taking your posts seriously.
2013-04-08 05:54:37 PM  
1 votes:

James!: maxalt: James!: maxalt: Try passing a 9th grade passing test to graduate

I'm sure your son had a tip-top education.

Yes my son is now a private contractor making a lot more than you do I suspect. Why do you worry about what some one else makes? I guy long ago taught me " I don't care if the other guy makes more money than I do, I just want to make more money than I do". Work and you will, one day, if you work HARD, be one of the people how makes too much money. I have a life long friend who started in the music business in the late 1960's. He was starving, he would come and eat at my house, sleep in the basement, I would make his car payment, but he kept on and on struggling in the music business. Now he manages BIG time bands, , he worked his whole life hard to be where he is, he probably makes more in a year than you will make in your life time. Should all his work in freezing clubs in Michigan, days without food, sleeping in his car in the winter in Michigan, belong to someone else? He didn't earn that? Your jealously is just sickening, go out and try, if you fail try again. Keep trying until you are successful. Then tell me you owe you success to someone else, or government

God bless your wife for overcoming the social stigma and having children with someone of your... capacity.


I guess you are just another uneducated libtard who would not know an insult if it devoured his posterior. Keep up the whining and some day you may make it into a low class job whining about how life has screwed you over. No one who is successful in this world waits for success, if you are successful, you go out and get it. I suppose you could be one of the chinless wonders who find their place in government warming a chair and complaining that you don't get enough vacation. Go on looking at the obstacles in life and you will never see the opportunities, I truly feel for you.
2013-04-08 05:42:35 PM  
1 votes:

maxalt: James!: maxalt: Try passing a 9th grade passing test to graduate

I'm sure your son had a tip-top education.

Yes my son is now a private contractor making a lot more than you do I suspect. Why do you worry about what some one else makes? I guy long ago taught me " I don't care if the other guy makes more money than I do, I just want to make more money than I do". Work and you will, one day, if you work HARD, be one of the people how makes too much money. I have a life long friend who started in the music business in the late 1960's. He was starving, he would come and eat at my house, sleep in the basement, I would make his car payment, but he kept on and on struggling in the music business. Now he manages BIG time bands, , he worked his whole life hard to be where he is, he probably makes more in a year than you will make in your life time. Should all his work in freezing clubs in Michigan, days without food, sleeping in his car in the winter in Michigan, belong to someone else? He didn't earn that? Your jealously is just sickening, go out and try, if you fail try again. Keep trying until you are successful. Then tell me you owe you success to someone else, or government


God bless your wife for overcoming the social stigma and having children with someone of your... capacity.
2013-04-08 05:34:37 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: Um, most analyses of early human communities say that children were raised exactly like this - by the community.  So conservatives are effectively getting mad at returning to historical methods of raising children.


Leave it to the left to want to return to the stone age.
And be proud of it.
2013-04-08 04:27:16 PM  
1 votes:

maxalt: Try passing a 9th grade passing test to graduate


I'm sure your son had a tip-top education.
2013-04-08 04:25:10 PM  
1 votes:

clancifer: maxalt: Why is it that always when some one sees something that says government isn't the be all end all they go crazy? My son was MY RESPONSIBILITY, I do not want someone who was indoctrinated by the state ie teachers telling me how to raise my children. So you take the most brain dead path, what about child abuse?  Child abuse is already illegal and is punishable by up to life in jail. My son is well adjusted and smart has a well paying job and independent. He only spent the last two years of high school in public abuse buildings. The public schools do not teach ANYTHING!!! They teach "feel good". When over 50% of inner city school kids cannot read at a 2nd grade level when they graduate high school you people want more of public education? I had my son doing algebra when he was in the 3rd grade. Take responsibility and work hard to raise you child to be ready to face the world. Leave the government out of the picture, just because someone works for the government does NOT make them an angel or smart, just someone who failed at all else. My parents who were both teachers used to say "Those who can do, those who can't teach". And yes I truly loved my parents and miss them every day.

2/10. Needs more creationism.


Don't care if you can't think for yourself, which government school did you attend? By heart felt beliefs are not of anyone's concern. Try passing a 9th grade passing test to graduate to high school from the 1880's. The tests are available on the internet. Then rate youself as to education.
2013-04-08 04:07:47 PM  
1 votes:

cman: Aarontology: Because the concepts of slavery and community spirit are totally morally analogous.

You dispute that people change?


Not at all.

I'm saying making the comparison of "community" to "slavery" is stupid and cheapens the horrors of slavery. Especially given that community isn't inherently evil like slavery.
2013-04-08 04:03:09 PM  
1 votes:

maxalt: Why is it that always when some one sees something that says government isn't the be all end all they go crazy? My son was MY RESPONSIBILITY, I do not want someone who was indoctrinated by the state ie teachers telling me how to raise my children. So you take the most brain dead path, what about child abuse?  Child abuse is already illegal and is punishable by up to life in jail. My son is well adjusted and smart has a well paying job and independent. He only spent the last two years of high school in public abuse buildings. The public schools do not teach ANYTHING!!! They teach "feel good". When over 50% of inner city school kids cannot read at a 2nd grade level when they graduate high school you people want more of public education? I had my son doing algebra when he was in the 3rd grade. Take responsibility and work hard to raise you child to be ready to face the world. Leave the government out of the picture, just because someone works for the government does NOT make them an angel or smart, just someone who failed at all else. My parents who were both teachers used to say "Those who can do, those who can't teach". And yes I truly loved my parents and miss them every day.


2/10. Needs more creationism.
2013-04-08 03:59:46 PM  
1 votes:

cman: Diogenes: Republicans and/or conservatives were people who supported communalism for much of our history.  It's amazing how reviled the very idea has become.  It was during Reagan's days that they started to demonize it at every level.

And Democrats were the ones who defended slavery

People change. Idea's change. The political world we live in is much different than those days.


While true, the two really aren't analogous.  Communalism and individualism historically haven't had party gravity like other political ideals/trends.

I've been reading alot in this area lately (god I need some new fiction!).  The first (finished) touches on this topic quite a bit.  The second (in progress) addresses it directly.

The Thirteen American Arguments
Our Divided Political Heart
2013-04-08 03:58:38 PM  
1 votes:
Because the concepts of slavery and community spirit are totally morally analogous.
2013-04-08 03:42:02 PM  
1 votes:
You are an unfit mother. Your children will be placed in the custody of Carl's Jr.
2013-04-08 03:36:14 PM  
1 votes:
Can I sue my community for child support?
2013-04-08 03:26:07 PM  
1 votes:
Republicans and/or conservatives were people who supported communalism for much of our history.  It's amazing how reviled the very idea has become.  It was during Reagan's days that they started to demonize it at every level.
2013-04-08 02:13:33 PM  
1 votes:
FTFA:
So kids belong to whole communities? Didn't we fight a war back in the 1800s to prove that people weren't owned by the state or anyone else, but were, in fact, people? Seriously?

So you think we fought a war to prove kids were the property of their parents? What?
 
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