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(RedState)   MSNBC host films a commercial saying that children don't belong to their parents or their families, but to their communities at large. This is an outrage, apparently   (redstate.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, MSNBC, Melissa Harris-Perry, state ownership, soylent greens, families  
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2906 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Apr 2013 at 6:52 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-09 07:20:11 AM  

heavymetal: The irony is that if you replace the word "community" with "church" the same people betting outraged would be "chest thumping" each other over the idea.  When in reality the "community" is sort of an inclusive extension of all the churches in the neighborhood as well as people who do not attend church.  It helps bring people of different faiths and backgrounds together for a common cause to make where they live a better place.


Of course, the idea of "community" and everyone belonging to said community isn't a radical new idea.


Jim_Callahan: I would suspect that most people would at least hope that their kids might grow up to be better than them, though, so learning from people other than the parents is sort of necessary.


Of course. Not to mention the socialization that takes place... Having said that, I have no problem with home schooling as long as the student is being graded and evaluated on the same criteria kids in public/private schools are graded and evaluated on.

Personally, when I think back to certain teachers I had as a kid and young adult, there really is no way I could have gotten that kind of well-rounded education just from my mom, as intelligent and rational as she was.

What I find comical is the outrage over the idea that belonging to a community is some kind of radical left wing "statism".
 
2013-04-09 07:23:41 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Alphakronik: BarkingUnicorn: Alphakronik: Yep, conservatives put this outrage over the airwaves on the same day that Rep. Mike Reynolds said that it is not the place of the government to give children an education (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/08/mike-reynolds-education_n_3 03 8157.html?utm_hp_ref=politics).

Which leaves me with the question:  Why do conservatives hate children so much?:

He was talking about college and adults.  He supports K-12 public education.  He objects to being told "it's government's job/responsibility" to pay for college.  It may behoove government to help people go to college, but it is not government's obligation to do so.

My kid brought home a bulletin from one of his elementary school teachers that read, "Students are expected to bring in extra supplies for those who do not have enough."  I wrote back to her, "Try standing on the corner flying a sign that reads, 'Citizens are expected to give me a dollar' and let me know how you do."  We dumped our extra supplies in the donation box at the store, as we did the years before.


Aww, now ya got me feeling bad.  Granted, I feel bad for your child having to be raised by assholes, but still, its upsetting.

Yeah, I felt bad about leaving him with an asshole teacher, too, but what could I do?


Send your kid to a private school?
 
2013-04-09 07:34:50 AM  

Alphakronik: BarkingUnicorn: Alphakronik: BarkingUnicorn: Alphakronik: Yep, conservatives put this outrage over the airwaves on the same day that Rep. Mike Reynolds said that it is not the place of the government to give children an education (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/08/mike-reynolds-education_n_3 03 8157.html?utm_hp_ref=politics).

Which leaves me with the question:  Why do conservatives hate children so much?:

He was talking about college and adults.  He supports K-12 public education.  He objects to being told "it's government's job/responsibility" to pay for college.  It may behoove government to help people go to college, but it is not government's obligation to do so.

My kid brought home a bulletin from one of his elementary school teachers that read, "Students are expected to bring in extra supplies for those who do not have enough."  I wrote back to her, "Try standing on the corner flying a sign that reads, 'Citizens are expected to give me a dollar' and let me know how you do."  We dumped our extra supplies in the donation box at the store, as we did the years before.


Aww, now ya got me feeling bad.  Granted, I feel bad for your child having to be raised by assholes, but still, its upsetting.

Yeah, I felt bad about leaving him with an asshole teacher, too, but what could I do?

Send your kid to a private school?


And have him miss out on all the diversity goodness?  The school was very proud to tell us parents that 27 different languages were spoken among the students.  Flags from every country represented were in the lobby; it was like the farking UN plaza!  "Celebrate Diversity!" was the theme for Parents Night.

So I wore this t-shirt:

www.wvwnews.net
 
2013-04-09 07:42:41 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Alphakronik: BarkingUnicorn: Alphakronik: BarkingUnicorn: Alphakronik: Yep, conservatives put this outrage over the airwaves on the same day that Rep. Mike Reynolds said that it is not the place of the government to give children an education (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/08/mike-reynolds-education_n_3 03 8157.html?utm_hp_ref=politics).

Which leaves me with the question:  Why do conservatives hate children so much?:

He was talking about college and adults.  He supports K-12 public education.  He objects to being told "it's government's job/responsibility" to pay for college.  It may behoove government to help people go to college, but it is not government's obligation to do so.

My kid brought home a bulletin from one of his elementary school teachers that read, "Students are expected to bring in extra supplies for those who do not have enough."  I wrote back to her, "Try standing on the corner flying a sign that reads, 'Citizens are expected to give me a dollar' and let me know how you do."  We dumped our extra supplies in the donation box at the store, as we did the years before.


Aww, now ya got me feeling bad.  Granted, I feel bad for your child having to be raised by assholes, but still, its upsetting.

Yeah, I felt bad about leaving him with an asshole teacher, too, but what could I do?

Send your kid to a private school?

And have him miss out on all the diversity goodness?  The school was very proud to tell us parents that 27 different languages were spoken among the students.  Flags from every country represented were in the lobby; it was like the farking UN plaza!  "Celebrate Diversity!" was the theme for Parents Night.

So I wore this t-shirt:

[www.wvwnews.net image 295x221]


Did you wear a trucker hat with a silhouette of a woman with big breasts on it too?

Basically you're too broke for private school, but get kicks shiatting on people that have even less. Archie Bunker was just a character, bro.
 
2013-04-09 07:45:49 AM  
Awesome thread everyone.  After analyzing all the posts through my magical analyzing fark app It has concluded that everyone has the same political philosophy but with completely different words.

Also, the fark app thread is very upset with the trolling in this thread and it appears that the future trolls of fark need to take some lessons by older more experienced trolls
 
2013-04-09 07:52:42 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Basically you're too broke for private school, but get kicks shiatting on people that have even less. Archie Bunker was just a character, bro.


So you're the guy in the grey Buick and sunglasses who's been following me all my life?  YOU BASTARD!
 
2013-04-09 07:53:34 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: HotWingConspiracy: Basically you're too broke for private school, but get kicks shiatting on people that have even less. Archie Bunker was just a character, bro.

So you're the guy in the grey Buick and sunglasses who's been following me all my life?  YOU BASTARD!


I'm George Jefferson.
 
2013-04-09 07:56:01 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: BarkingUnicorn: HotWingConspiracy: Basically you're too broke for private school, but get kicks shiatting on people that have even less. Archie Bunker was just a character, bro.

So you're the guy in the grey Buick and sunglasses who's been following me all my life?  YOU BASTARD!

I'm George Jefferson.


Bullshiat.  George drove a Mercedes.
 
2013-04-09 08:07:19 AM  
400+ comment in the PROMO! What will it look like when the show actually airs?
 
2013-04-09 08:09:22 AM  

SBWorks: 400+ comment in the PROMO! What will it look like when the show actually airs?


Fark's going to blow a server just as we get warmed up, as usual.
 
2013-04-09 08:16:25 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Sounds a little too familiar.
 
2013-04-09 08:23:40 AM  
EvilRacistNaziFascist:


The dissident voices on the right must not have nearly the same amount of power then.When I listen to right wing radio, or TV I almost always hear the same talking points.Left wing programs are usually a mess of conflicting items, except when it comes to the big things like gay marriage.

Obama isn't being heralded as a paragon of liberalism?! He is treated by mainstream American left- liberals as somebody who is practically beyond criticism. Again, I know that there are those who attack him from the left, but I don't think they're typical.



The hope was that Obama would be a transformational figure, and his rhetoric at least was a 180 from GW.As he moved through is term we have seen that either he is modified his positions due to practical reasons (i.e. we are bombing folks with drones for a reason), or showing his more centrist nature.The actual left in the US knows the score, at best they can put somebody like Obama out there and he will still make right wing heads spin.Were they to put up a real liberal for office the world would end.Democratic primaries are not nearly as far from the democratic base as the republican primaries are from their base.


nocturnal001: The reality is that private enterprise never developed the interstate system, didn't develop a railroad system without serious government help, didn't develop the internet etc. etc.

I've already established that I'm a conservative rather than a libertarian, but I'd just like you ask you a question: where do you think the all- benevolent State got the money from to pay for all these wonderful innovations? It is, regrettably, capitalist free enterprise that generates the wealth, that in turn creates the tax-base, that in turn makes government spending (whether well-directed or not) possible to begin with. And here's another question: what great enterprises has the government given us recently? And if there are fewer great enterprises in the US -- such as dams and power plants and space programmes, etc. -- than there have been in the past, why do you think that might be?


Eh, who knows what anyone is anymore.Our labels are all so mixed up as to be meaningless really, especially if you account for multiple axis political beliefs. There is a solid reason government hasn't given us anything bold lately, because our political environment does not allow it. Just look at the green energy loans.Most of those companies did pretty well, but it's a constant (and lame) joke on the right "lol another Solynydra". If we really wanted to prep ourselves for the next technology wave we would have done way more than offer a few loans. We created the atomic bomb for chump change compared to what we spent on Iraq (even accounting for inflation).Can we doubt that if we had spent 1 trillion dollars on making solar or other green energy a viable market we wouldn't have been able to?

In reality, a vanishingly small number of people have ever died from drinking poison soda. But over the past one hundred years alone something like 125 million people have been directly murdered by their governments. This is why the idea of regarding governments as inherently benevolent entities whose only mission is to save us from ourselves is dangerously naive. Again, I am not a libertarian and I am not opposed to the reasonable regulation of foodstuffs -- but if you think the free market is anywhere near as great a danger to your health as uncontrolled levels of government, you are completely ignorant of history.



Even in libertarian utopia a national government is needed for defense, I don't see how this changes the equation. Plus it's not like we can't pick and choose what parts of government we want.

I'm sadly old-fashioned, so I tend to look at these issues from a moral perspective. I assume that individual human beings are naturally fallible and corruptible, and that when they join together to form associations and institutions the fallibility and corruptibility are correspondingly magnified. This is why (although no Utopia is ever possible) a decentralized society is ultimately preferable, because the amount of human evil and its potential for ill- effects are minimized at a local level. The reason why the free market, even with its flaws, is preferable to big government is because each merchant in a free market is a finite entity. You drink X soda, it tastes like sh*t, you don't buy it again; you switch to Y soda, which is better. (Or stick to drinking water, which is best of all!) But the government, with its monopoly of force, is theoretically infinite in its reach. It can offer a product -- no matter how shoddy -- and forbid anyone else from offering the same kind of product; it can even compel you to consume its product (e.g. as in those countries where public education is mandatory and private education and/or homeschooling are forbidden). The government is always the greatest potential abuser because of its authority to discipline and punish. And why, if we are willing to always assume the worst of a private company who cannot compel us to do anything, should we be so willing to always assume the best of a government which can compel us to do everything?



There are glaring flaws in that model.It assumes that businesses are well intentioned, they are not always.We had a very similar situation here in the US back in the late 1800s and early 1900s where people sold all sorts of poisons to people under the guise of medicine.Even if the consumer figures this out, the damage is done, while those who were selling them have escaped with profits and are no longer accountable.The whole idea of the corporate veil would need to be destroyed, and all members of a business would have to be criminally accountable for any misstep. I'm a pragmatist above all, and I am positive that we receive (as a society) a positive ROI for these institutions that guarantee things like product safety.A true libertarian environment would be terribly inhospitable to business innovation, nobody would trust anybody and new products or businesses would nearly always fail.  People don't die from soda because you aren't allowed to add poison to soda, and anything you do add must be on the label.


The best way I have heard it described is why trust a corporation compared to your government? Your government is answerable to you on some level at least, while the corporation is only answerable to it's shareholders.Nothing is perfect, but 200+ years of steady economic growth suggests that our system works fairly well.
 
2013-04-09 08:28:22 AM  

nocturnal001: EvilRacistNaziFascist: I Like Bread: The free market will sort it out. When word gets around that those parents starve their children, no one will want to buy children from them.

Look: someone else who can't tell the difference between libertarianism and anarchy... I haven't read the whole thread, has anybody said the "LOL GO TO SOMALIA" thing yet? That one's a classic (and easily the modern equivalent of "if you don't like it here, go to Russia").

Those arguments may not be compelling, but neither are the ones we receive from the libertarians.  What strikes me is that this philosophy is all about what ifs, never about "this actually happened".

The reality is that private enterprise never developed the interstate system, didn't develop a railroad system without serious government help, didn't develop the internet etc. etc.

And that doesn't even touch on the insane levels of transaction costs that would be imposed upon every single transaction in society without government intervention. Sure the free market will make sure ultimately that Soda Brand X doesn't contain poison, but glazing over the few people killed for the market to learn that, do you guys really think anyone would try new products in that enviornment? Every single thing we did would be a long and drawn out process to mitigate the risk that government regulation mitigates for us.

No doubt government is in fact a non-producing drain on human enterprise, but in what it takes it absolutely can faciliate far greater growth as risks are reduced.  Yeah, I could take 29 different private highways to get around the US, but just dealing with the billing systems for 29 companies would cost me a fortune if I owned a trucking company.


Well the other problem of such unfettered free markets is that the competition left to itself is corrupt and always finds ways to end real competition - for example with the early railways and industry you see small successful companies growing (which is good), but then they get big enough so they can dominate the market (often at both ends, consumers and their workers) and end competition. Equally the competition is rarely "fair" - there is the example of the early unregulated phone companies in London, which meant lots of companies setting up redundant wires on rooftops that already had wiring from other companies - and of course if the competitors wires accidentally got broken when fitting a new line for your company, well all the better.

The market also rewards lying to your customers - well established in the food industry, from the old history of hand shaping raspberry "pips" from bits of wood and adding sawdust and alum to bread, and adding lead citrate (poisonous of course) to watered down milk to make it look creamy again, right up to the modern day of breeding smaller fruits and vegetables where they are sold "per unit", injecting water into chicken breasts to bulk up the weight, or inserting extra "connective tissue" into meat products until it is just under the government limits of what is acceptable, which shows that nothing has changed on the business side of things, just government slowly erodes away the most egregious forms of swindling that companies have been caught doing over time. The free market is always flexible enough to find new ways to sidestep existing legislation and cheat the customer out of more profits, but it takes a while for the industry to adapt and things improve for a while at least, and each cheat is on average less problematic than past ones.
 
2013-04-09 08:41:35 AM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: [upload.wikimedia.org image 200x300]

Sounds a little too familiar.


Never read the book, eh?
 
2013-04-09 08:46:42 AM  
Corporations are people too my friends.

Once they make sure you and your wife are working 4 jobs AND trying to homeschool your kids, they want an opportunity to prove they can raise your kids for you. At a profit!

/ Just before they prove you're an unfit parent when you get sent to debtors prison for getting behind on your 2 Million dollar hospital bills...

// Wanna buy my kid for a kidney?

/// YAY "Free" Market Capitalism!
 
2013-04-09 08:55:31 AM  
If your children are your property, then keep your property off my lawn.
 
2013-04-09 08:58:39 AM  

Heraclitus: Corporations are people too my friends.

Once they make sure you and your wife are working 4 jobs AND trying to homeschool your kids, they want an opportunity to prove they can raise your kids for you. At a profit!

/ Just before they prove you're an unfit parent when you get sent to debtors prison for getting behind on your 2 Million dollar hospital bills...

// Wanna buy my kid for a kidney?

/// YAY "Free" Market Capitalism!


Lately they seem to be actually above people. Doesn't make any sense that a corporation has rights like freedom of speech, yet if a corporation does something criminaly negligent, management/owners are protected unless they did something wrong themselves.

My favorite example is when BofA was forclosing on people that never even had a mortgage with them.  One lady had her locks changed, and her stuff thrown out onto the street by BofA agents.

Were I to break into somebody's home and throw their stuff on the street I would be arrested for B&E and wouldn't be able to say "whoops, lol, I thought she owed me mortgage payments".  I totaly get why people involved in a corporation are protected by that status, but you can't have your cake and eat it to.  How can you have the rights of a person but not the legal responsibilities?
 
2013-04-09 09:02:46 AM  

DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: If your children are your property, then keep your property off my lawn.


Personally, I find a buffer zone around the property of ten-minute itch, poison ivy, and pricker bushes works great as a deterrent for wayward youth... They usually only try to cut through once.
 
2013-04-09 09:12:27 AM  

GAT_00: Um, most analyses of early human communities say that children were raised exactly like this - by the community.  So conservatives are effectively getting mad at returning to historical methods of raising children.




U get dumber by the day
 
2013-04-09 09:29:32 AM  

Dinki: So Redstate, since children apparently 'belong' to only their parents, if said parents choose to abuse, neglect, or starve their children it's all good, right?




What if the the community decides to do the same? Might as well kill the kids huh? Head asplodes.....fing idiot
 
2013-04-09 09:31:20 AM  

maxalt: Why is it that always when some one sees something that says government isn't the be all end all they go crazy? My son was MY RESPONSIBILITY, I do not want someone who was indoctrinated by the state ie teachers telling me how to raise my children. So you take the most brain dead path, what about child abuse?  Child abuse is already illegal and is punishable by up to life in jail. My son is well adjusted and smart has a well paying job and independent. He only spent the last two years of high school in public abuse buildings. The public schools do not teach ANYTHING!!! They teach "feel good". When over 50% of inner city school kids cannot read at a 2nd grade level when they graduate high school you people want more of public education? I had my son doing algebra when he was in the 3rd grade. Take responsibility and work hard to raise you child to be ready to face the world. Leave the government out of the picture, just because someone works for the government does NOT make them an angel or smart, just someone who failed at all else. My parents who were both teachers used to say "Those who can do, those who can't teach". And yes I truly loved my parents and miss them every day.


that's a whole lotta derp. nothing you said was even close to being accurate
 
2013-04-09 09:37:10 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: BraveNewCheneyWorld: [upload.wikimedia.org image 200x300]

Sounds a little too familiar.

Never read the book, eh?


FTFB-
"Everyone belongs to everyone else"

As usual, you're clueless.
 
2013-04-09 09:44:31 AM  
if children don't belong to the state why is the GOP trying to mandate drug tests for them?
 
2013-04-09 09:49:05 AM  

DamnYankees: OH NOES!  COMMUNITISOCIALISM!!


"Democracy would be wholly valueless to the proletariat if it were not immediately used as a means for putting through measures directed against private property and ensuring the livelihood of the proletariat. The main measures, emerging as the necessary result of existing relations, are the following:

(viii) Education of all children, from the moment they can leave their mother's care, in national establishments at national cost. Education and production together.  "

"It will transform the relations between the sexes into a purely private matter which concerns only the persons involved and into which society has no occasion to intervene. It can do this since it does away with private property and educates children on a communal basis, and in this way removes the two bases of traditional marriage - the dependence rooted in private property, of the women on the man, and of the children on the parents."
<a target="_blank" href="http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm ">The Principles of Communism, Frederick Engels 1847</a>
 
2013-04-09 09:50:11 AM  

Hobodeluxe: if children don't belong to the state why is the GOP trying to mandate drug tests for them?


are you taking the position that they DO belong to the state?
 
2013-04-09 09:55:56 AM  

skullkrusher: Hobodeluxe: if children don't belong to the state why is the GOP trying to mandate drug tests for them?

are you taking the position that they DO belong to the state?


in some respects society does have a role to play to insure their well being.
are you saying that society/govt has no responsibility for their well being?
 
2013-04-09 10:02:12 AM  
I have children who are wards of the state. So I am really getting a kick out of most of these replies, etc
 
2013-04-09 10:03:47 AM  

Hobodeluxe: skullkrusher: Hobodeluxe: if children don't belong to the state why is the GOP trying to mandate drug tests for them?

are you taking the position that they DO belong to the state?

in some respects society does have a role to play to insure their well being.
are you saying that society/govt has no responsibility for their well being?


See, you said "if children don't belong to the state..." in a manner which implied that you believe that they do. Then you did the old bait and switch and went with "are you saying that the state has no responsibility for their well being?" These aren't even remotely similar. Which do you mean? Do children belong to the state or are  you merely stating the obvious, that the state does have a responsibility to protect children?
 
2013-04-09 10:10:26 AM  

skullkrusher: Hobodeluxe: skullkrusher: Hobodeluxe: if children don't belong to the state why is the GOP trying to mandate drug tests for them?

are you taking the position that they DO belong to the state?

in some respects society does have a role to play to insure their well being.
are you saying that society/govt has no responsibility for their well being?

See, you said "if children don't belong to the state..." in a manner which implied that you believe that they do. Then you did the old bait and switch and went with "are you saying that the state has no responsibility for their well being?" These aren't even remotely similar. Which do you mean? Do children belong to the state or are  you merely stating the obvious, that the state does have a responsibility to protect children?


I just think that it's not black and white with only 2 extreme positions. it's up to us to decide when it's beneficial and when it's intrusive. some think that we need to indoctrinate kids with religion in public schools. some think we need to do away with public schools and let the parents fend for themselves in finding private education for them or homeschool them. some think that we need to have them tested for drugs on a regular basis. some think we need to not teach hard sciences that contradict religious beliefs. as a society we have to guard against such indoctrination.
 
2013-04-09 10:13:40 AM  

Hobodeluxe: skullkrusher: Hobodeluxe: skullkrusher: Hobodeluxe: if children don't belong to the state why is the GOP trying to mandate drug tests for them?

are you taking the position that they DO belong to the state?

in some respects society does have a role to play to insure their well being.
are you saying that society/govt has no responsibility for their well being?

See, you said "if children don't belong to the state..." in a manner which implied that you believe that they do. Then you did the old bait and switch and went with "are you saying that the state has no responsibility for their well being?" These aren't even remotely similar. Which do you mean? Do children belong to the state or are  you merely stating the obvious, that the state does have a responsibility to protect children?

I just think that it's not black and white with only 2 extreme positions. it's up to us to decide when it's beneficial and when it's intrusive. some think that we need to indoctrinate kids with religion in public schools. some think we need to do away with public schools and let the parents fend for themselves in finding private education for them or homeschool them. some think that we need to have them tested for drugs on a regular basis. some think we need to not teach hard sciences that contradict religious beliefs. as a society we have to guard against such indoctrination.


all of which can be said without saying absurd shiat like "children belong to the state"
 
2013-04-09 10:17:52 AM  
I demand the government provide me with a vagina so that I may contribute offspring to the great and mighty USA.
 
2013-04-09 10:37:00 AM  
Pretty typical actually,

"We want to get all up in your business to save that unborn child!"

9 months later...

"That kid is YOUR responsibility. No safety net for you!"

Cognitive dissonance at its finest folks!
 
2013-04-09 10:41:14 AM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: HotWingConspiracy: BraveNewCheneyWorld: [upload.wikimedia.org image 200x300]

Sounds a little too familiar.

Never read the book, eh?

FTFB-
"Everyone belongs to everyone else"

As usual, you're clueless.


Shhh, precious child. No tears now.
 
2013-04-09 11:01:12 AM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Interesting and disturbing news item. Interesting and disturbing thread.

On the one hand, there are a lot of unfit parents. It runs the gamut from neglect and psychological abuse to physical and sexual abuse. The causes range from cluelessness of what children need to psychosis to deliberate sadism and sociopathic behavior. As with anything else, there is a Bell Curve of behavior and issues. 50% of parenting is going to be sub-par. 2% is going to be horrible.

Then again, 50% of parenting is going to be over-par. 2% is going to be outstanding.

In genetics and evolution, a wide range of genetic characteristics helps preserve the longevity of the species. A single plague, for example, will have a tougher time wiping out every single individual. Variation, then, is a survival trait.

Perhaps the same applies to different styles/types of parenting...?

Perhaps a "community creche" model where are children are subjected to the same parenting philosophy might have unintended consequences of mental uniformity and mediocrity...?

Also, a progressive thought seems to be that The State could probably do a better job of parenting than the sub-par 50%. But wait a minute. The State is made up of people. and the Bell Curve is everywhere. So 50% of those people will also be sub-par.

I can see that a few measures would be effective, just and moral. These would be in the area where being a parent has an effect on the community - other people. And, curiously, I say this as someone who has Libertarian leanings.

For example, I don't really see a "right" to have a child. Children effect other people, perhaps very negatively. Genetic issues aside, it's probably true that a sufficiently abused child can grow up to be a sociopathic monster. Perhaps, then, childbirth should be licensed, and licenses granted only to couples who take and pass parenting courses. Non-licensed children would become wards of The State and adopted out to licensed infertile couples.

Thoughts?


I've been holding my tongue in this thread hoping others would make my points for me, for the most part they have, so whatever, but in response to parenting licenses I would ask you if you would really trust the person who got stuck teaching compulsory parenting courses to either give a shiat or be worth a damn?

If so then I would like you to voluntarily sign up and attend the classes held by your local county in cases of determining custody in the event of a dissolution of marriage or cessation in cohabitation between non married couples with children. If your county doesn't have anything like that, then you are probably lucky to not live in the horrible bureaucratic mess that most impoverished americans face. There already exists a system which essentially operates as a "licensing" procedure.

I agree with much of your thoughts on the bell curve idea, and would like to add that "parenting" isn't just one thing, one book, "good parenting" has to do with the needs and motivations of the individual child, and thus, cannot logically be mandated or codified beyond this on the scale of diversity which exists in america.

I would never submit a child of mine to be taught by a fundamentalist religious institution whose beliefs i find abhorrent or those which i don't adhere to, i would hope that others would agree that that is a right held by all people. "the state" itself functions as a belief system in much the same way..
 
2013-04-09 11:02:32 AM  

GAT_00: Um, most analyses of early human communities say that children were raised exactly like this - by the community.  So conservatives are effectively getting mad at returning to historical methods of raising children.


The Bronze Age was truly the golden age of parenting.
 
2013-04-09 11:14:00 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: BraveNewCheneyWorld: HotWingConspiracy: BraveNewCheneyWorld: [upload.wikimedia.org image 200x300]

Sounds a little too familiar.

Never read the book, eh?

FTFB-
"Everyone belongs to everyone else"

As usual, you're clueless.

Shhh, precious child. No tears now.


Wait.. you read my post, claim that I couldn't have read the book, get shown to not have read the book yourself, called on it, and then call me names for defending myself?  If denial was a martial art, you would be its master.
 
2013-04-09 11:44:16 AM  

Heraclitus: Pretty typical actually,

"We want to get all up in your business to save that unborn child!"

9 months later...

"That kid is YOUR responsibility. No safety net for you!"

Cognitive dissonance at its finest folks!


Not really

/pro-choice
//this argument is still dumb
 
2013-04-09 12:03:56 PM  
Isn't this the same guy that complained about right wing media being too much of an outrage factory?
 
2013-04-09 12:28:26 PM  

Heraclitus: Pretty typical actually,

"We want to get all up in your business to save that unborn child!"

9 months later...

"That kid is YOUR responsibility. No safety net for you!"

Cognitive dissonance at its finest folks!


Ah, yes, the Republican party. We'll force you to be born, we won't let you die with dignity, but in between you are on your goddamned own. - Buck Futter
 
2013-04-09 01:41:03 PM  
What happens when children become 'communal':
images.huffingtonpost.com
 
2013-04-09 07:09:58 PM  
Though I respect the spirit of the message do you really want the community of Detroit Michigan to help raise your kids?
 
2013-04-09 11:02:38 PM  
badhatharry:

(farky'd as: I have to wipe my butt on my own!!! This will not stand! 6973905)

I find it refreshing. About time liberals stopped beating around the bushes.

So now you need a community to...erm....wipe you?
 
2013-04-10 01:01:15 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: sorry if you felt insulted. that wasn't the intent.
I was mocking the "you didn't build that" and I thought my comments about the cars and roads were over the top enough that you wouldn't take it seriously.


Of course you were, you're either too stupid to understand what it means or deliberately ignore the rest of the speech in order to work up your indignant outrage. You and BraveNewCheneyWorld operate the exact same way, ignoring everything pointed out, explained, and yelled to you in order to keep saying the exact same whiny shiat day in and day out.
 
2013-04-10 04:18:00 PM  

Kazrath: maxalt: James!: maxalt: Try passing a 9th grade passing test to graduate

I'm sure your son had a tip-top education.

Yes my son is now a private contractor making a lot more than you do I suspect. Why do you worry about what some one else makes? I guy long ago taught me " I don't care if the other guy makes more money than I do, I just want to make more money than I do". Work and you will, one day, if you work HARD, be one of the people how makes too much money. I have a life long friend who started in the music business in the late 1960's. He was starving, he would come and eat at my house, sleep in the basement, I would make his car payment, but he kept on and on struggling in the music business. Now he manages BIG time bands, , he worked his whole life hard to be where he is, he probably makes more in a year than you will make in your life time. Should all his work in freezing clubs in Michigan, days without food, sleeping in his car in the winter in Michigan, belong to someone else? He didn't earn that? Your jealously is just sickening, go out and try, if you fail try again. Keep trying until you are successful. Then tell me you owe you success to someone else, or government

Wow you are either really stupid, or an amazing troll.  I am going with really stupid.

Did you teach your child everything he knows?  Did you keep him safe every second he was alive?  Did you personally feed him every single drop of food he ever ate?  If not, then your argument is completely invalid.  The "Community" raised your kid far far more than you did as he spent significantly more time as a child with the "Community" than he did with you.  Does that make you a bad parent or even a bad person.. nope.  Being a dumbarse who gets angry over concepts he cannot comprehend makes you a bad person.


You are obviously a product of a education factory run by the state, therefore unable to have a single unique thought. Private lives bad, government indoctrination good. Well go about with your government worship and you will never achieve your full potential, waiting for you government to help you. By the way the people who are in government are for the most part people who could not make it in the world without taking money (taxes) from the earners and give it to the less than worthy, ie government workers.
 
2013-04-10 04:47:55 PM  

maxalt: Kazrath: maxalt: James!: maxalt: Try passing a 9th grade passing test to graduate

I'm sure your son had a tip-top education.

Yes my son is now a private contractor making a lot more than you do I suspect. Why do you worry about what some one else makes? I guy long ago taught me " I don't care if the other guy makes more money than I do, I just want to make more money than I do". Work and you will, one day, if you work HARD, be one of the people how makes too much money. I have a life long friend who started in the music business in the late 1960's. He was starving, he would come and eat at my house, sleep in the basement, I would make his car payment, but he kept on and on struggling in the music business. Now he manages BIG time bands, , he worked his whole life hard to be where he is, he probably makes more in a year than you will make in your life time. Should all his work in freezing clubs in Michigan, days without food, sleeping in his car in the winter in Michigan, belong to someone else? He didn't earn that? Your jealously is just sickening, go out and try, if you fail try again. Keep trying until you are successful. Then tell me you owe you success to someone else, or government

Wow you are either really stupid, or an amazing troll.  I am going with really stupid.

Did you teach your child everything he knows?  Did you keep him safe every second he was alive?  Did you personally feed him every single drop of food he ever ate?  If not, then your argument is completely invalid.  The "Community" raised your kid far far more than you did as he spent significantly more time as a child with the "Community" than he did with you.  Does that make you a bad parent or even a bad person.. nope.  Being a dumbarse who gets angry over concepts he cannot comprehend makes you a bad person.

You are obviously a product of a education factory run by the state, therefore unable to have a single unique thought. Private lives bad, government indoctrination good. Well go about ...


"Baa baa sheeple baa baa I'm the only one who thinks for myself baa baa baa"

The funny thing is, others think just like you do, so you're just another species of sheeple bleating something different from other sheeple.

If you really don't want to contribute to society, leave it. Take your family into the desolate mountains or desert and eek out an existence there. No one will miss you.
 
2013-04-10 04:58:58 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: maxalt: Kazrath: maxalt: James!: maxalt: Try passing a 9th grade passing test to graduate

I'm sure your son had a tip-top education.

Yes my son is now a private contractor making a lot more than you do I suspect. Why do you worry about what some one else makes? I guy long ago taught me " I don't care if the other guy makes more money than I do, I just want to make more money than I do". Work and you will, one day, if you work HARD, be one of the people how makes too much money. I have a life long friend who started in the music business in the late 1960's. He was starving, he would come and eat at my house, sleep in the basement, I would make his car payment, but he kept on and on struggling in the music business. Now he manages BIG time bands, , he worked his whole life hard to be where he is, he probably makes more in a year than you will make in your life time. Should all his work in freezing clubs in Michigan, days without food, sleeping in his car in the winter in Michigan, belong to someone else? He didn't earn that? Your jealously is just sickening, go out and try, if you fail try again. Keep trying until you are successful. Then tell me you owe you success to someone else, or government

Wow you are either really stupid, or an amazing troll.  I am going with really stupid.

Did you teach your child everything he knows?  Did you keep him safe every second he was alive?  Did you personally feed him every single drop of food he ever ate?  If not, then your argument is completely invalid.  The "Community" raised your kid far far more than you did as he spent significantly more time as a child with the "Community" than he did with you.  Does that make you a bad parent or even a bad person.. nope.  Being a dumbarse who gets angry over concepts he cannot comprehend makes you a bad person.

You are obviously a product of a education factory run by the state, therefore unable to have a single unique thought. Private lives bad, government indoctrination good. Well g ...


No one thinks like me if you are a free man , not a government d*ck licker. Government is nothing but force, they have one tool and it is force. no more no less
 
2013-04-10 05:09:33 PM  

maxalt: Keizer_Ghidorah: maxalt: Kazrath: maxalt: James!: maxalt: Try passing a 9th grade passing test to graduate

I'm sure your son had a tip-top education.

Yes my son is now a private contractor making a lot more than you do I suspect. Why do you worry about what some one else makes? I guy long ago taught me " I don't care if the other guy makes more money than I do, I just want to make more money than I do". Work and you will, one day, if you work HARD, be one of the people how makes too much money. I have a life long friend who started in the music business in the late 1960's. He was starving, he would come and eat at my house, sleep in the basement, I would make his car payment, but he kept on and on struggling in the music business. Now he manages BIG time bands, , he worked his whole life hard to be where he is, he probably makes more in a year than you will make in your life time. Should all his work in freezing clubs in Michigan, days without food, sleeping in his car in the winter in Michigan, belong to someone else? He didn't earn that? Your jealously is just sickening, go out and try, if you fail try again. Keep trying until you are successful. Then tell me you owe you success to someone else, or government

Wow you are either really stupid, or an amazing troll.  I am going with really stupid.

Did you teach your child everything he knows?  Did you keep him safe every second he was alive?  Did you personally feed him every single drop of food he ever ate?  If not, then your argument is completely invalid.  The "Community" raised your kid far far more than you did as he spent significantly more time as a child with the "Community" than he did with you.  Does that make you a bad parent or even a bad person.. nope.  Being a dumbarse who gets angry over concepts he cannot comprehend makes you a bad person.

You are obviously a product of a education factory run by the state, therefore unable to have a single unique thought. Private lives bad, government indoctrina ...


Yes yes yes, I've heard it before from bad movies, bad TV shows, and bad novels. You should be glad the government protects your freedom to say such things about it and hasn't forced you into a concentration camp like you're so eager it will in order to have your whiny life justified.
 
2013-04-10 05:31:53 PM  
The government has four jobs, to protect our country from all enemies both foreign and domestic, to deliver the mail, set weights and measures and terrifs  When I was young the only way the President Eisenhower could get the interstate roads system passed was to say it was for national defense, ie landing fields for Air Force planes, that is why there is always a 4 mile stretch of uninterrupted roads every 25 miles. Believe in your government mama and you will go far.
 
2013-04-10 05:58:44 PM  

maxalt: The government has four jobs, to protect our country from all enemies both foreign and domestic, to deliver the mail, set weights and measures and terrifs  When I was young the only way the President Eisenhower could get the interstate roads system passed was to say it was for national defense, ie landing fields for Air Force planes, that is why there is always a 4 mile stretch of uninterrupted roads every 25 miles. Believe in your government mama and you will go far.


If you're going to copy-paste something, at least fix it up a little. That post looks like you ran it through Babelfish a few times, and it still said nothing of intelligence or value anyway.
 
2013-04-10 06:10:05 PM  
Try reading the constitution some time and stop licking the government boots.
 
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