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(Wisconsin Gazette)   Holy cow. Third of Americans support Christianity as official religion   (wisconsingazette.com) divider line 97
    More: Interesting, Americans, Christianity, churches, North Carolina Republicans, school prayer  
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4903 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Apr 2013 at 12:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2013-04-08 11:18:50 AM  
14 votes:
They might as well worship cows. They sure as hell aren't worshipping Christ.
2013-04-08 11:18:51 AM  
9 votes:
Meaning 66% of Americans don't... I'm OK with that.
2013-04-08 11:56:39 AM  
8 votes:
Kind of hard to call them "Americans" in that case.
2013-04-08 11:53:01 AM  
8 votes:
So one-third of Americans don't believe in the 1st amendment.  I bet most of those also vehemently defend the existence of the 2nd amendment.
2013-04-08 11:57:57 AM  
6 votes:

Diogenes: Kind of hard to call them "Americans" in that case.


But you can call them Republican.
2013-04-08 11:24:32 AM  
6 votes:
Which one?
2013-04-08 12:36:33 PM  
4 votes:
As long as it's not 50.1% of 2/3rds of the states, we're good.


/Original intent, my ass...
2013-04-08 12:34:23 PM  
4 votes:
Why would America need an official religion? How about you worship what you want and leave everyone else the fark alone? Does that work for you?
2013-04-08 12:03:17 PM  
4 votes:

ThatGuyGreg: Meaning 66% of Americans don't... I'm OK with that.


66.6%, hilariously appropriate.
2013-04-08 12:57:08 PM  
3 votes:
I would strongly oppose this. I will not live under a theocracy. Muslim or Christian...I would oppose either controlling my government.
2013-04-08 12:54:03 PM  
3 votes:

nekom: Actually to be fair, most religions do contain a lot of philosophy. Even someone who does not believe that Jesus was the son of god might say that they are a fan of his teachings. Love thy neighbor, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, etc. In some ways, I argue that Buddhism is a philosophy and not a religion. It has no creation myth, which seems to me to be the defining thing between a religion and a philosophy.



Philosophy provides questions that may never be answered, Religion provides answers that may never be questioned.
2013-04-08 12:52:23 PM  
3 votes:
www.godsboard.com
2013-04-08 12:49:49 PM  
3 votes:
Fights to make homosexuality illegal. Check.
Believe women are incapable of making decisions about their own bodies. Check.
Rejects all other religions as false. Check.
Wants religion to be the basis for civil law. Check.

No, I was referring to Muslim Extremists, why would you be thinking "Republicans?"
2013-04-08 12:38:09 PM  
3 votes:
It's funny that the people who scream the loudest against Sharia Law in the United States would be ok with it with a simple name change, like calling it Jesus Law.
2013-04-08 12:32:04 PM  
3 votes:
It would be hilarious since about 90% of that 33% would be all pissed off if it did happen since the government would choose the "wrong" kind of Christianity according to them.
2013-04-08 12:14:58 PM  
3 votes:
Well, they think what they believe in is christianity, anyway
2013-04-08 11:46:14 AM  
3 votes:
And roughly the same number of Americans gave a big-ole "thumbs-up" to our previous administration during the entirety of its term.
2013-04-08 06:13:28 PM  
2 votes:
Mr. Right:
The Exodus of the Hebrews from Egypt
[citation needed]

No Biblical fragments from that era are preserved.... probably

No evidence exists, so we should assume your guesses aren't just reinforcing your confirmation bias about christianity?
2013-04-08 04:48:35 PM  
2 votes:

randomjsa: Would you actually argue that a state could stifle free speech or freedom of the press? Because there's no distinction between those and the establishment clause. You could not be more wrong in your line of reasoning.


Before the 14th amendment, states could and did stifle free speech.  You could be jailed for making public anti-slavery speeches in some states, for example.  The 14th amendment crammed the bill of rights down the states' throats, no matter what SkinnyHead says.
2013-04-08 03:40:22 PM  
2 votes:
"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." (Mark 12:17)

Even Jesus wants separation of church and state.
2013-04-08 03:33:52 PM  
2 votes:

Overfiend: God's Hubris: Believe women are incapable of making decisions about their own bodies. Check.

This argument/point is far from the truth.

Those who are Pro-life arent against a woman making decisions about her own body.  Pro-lifers believe the unborn baby (fetus) is a living being - and that's who they wish to protect.  Most Pro-lifers would care less if a woman wanted to go out and:

Get tattoos
Get piercings/body modifications
Get cosmetic surgery
Get a hysterectomy
Or anything else for that matter...

...except dont hurt the baby inside of them.


What is the intersection between these "Pro-lifers" and those that are opposed to a woman learning about / receiving birth control? I could respect the "protect the baby" argument if it didn't so often look more like medieval slut-shaming.
2013-04-08 01:34:01 PM  
2 votes:

Mr. Right: This country was never founded as a Christian nation.  Rather, it was founded on the judeo-christian philosophy.  Key elements of that were the supremacy of the rule of law, the equality of citizens before the law, and individual property rights for persons of any class.  Given that those were terribly radical ideas in that day, they weren't perfectly executed.  Slavery still existed.  Women had not achieved equality (although they were better treated under Judaism than many other societies of the day.  But the Jews understood that laws subject to the caprices of rulers would inevitably lead to tyranny.

The philosophical basis of Christianity is noble and worth pursuing.  But the founding fathers were acutely aware of the dangers of establishing any particular religion as the official religion.  Since the Reformation, Europe had been torn apart by religious schisms.  So they wisely chose to adopt the philosophy without being constrained by the religion.

It would be a mistake to change their vision.


The US wasn't founded on Judeo-anything. The Founding Fathers were a mix of scholars, deists, and men of great faith. They all brought something to the party. Washington, Franklin and Jefferson were obvious Deists. Hell, Jefferson edited Jesus and miracles out of the Bible! There weren't any JEWS to be found. In fact, many of the Founders would be considered anti-Semitic based upon their positions and interactions with European financial structures that were heavily Jewish. The term Judeo-Christian came into use AFTER WW2 and the Holocaust.
2013-04-08 01:09:10 PM  
2 votes:

SkinnyHead: voodoolady: SkinnyHead: wxboy: So one-third of Americans don't believe in the 1st amendment.  I bet most of those also vehemently defend the existence of the 2nd amendment.

It says that slightly more than a third of U.S. adults favor establishing Christianity as an official religion of their state.  The 1st Amendment only prohibits Congress from establishing a religion.  It was not intended to prevent state establishments.

What's that other one....the 14th maybe? What's that one do?

The Due Process Clause of the 14th says that no state may deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.  A state establishment of Christianity would not deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law, would it?


You know what's explicitly in the Constitution? The judicial branch, and their responsibility of interpreting it in relation to court cases. The application of the Bill of Rights to the states, particularly the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, has been nailed down as solidly as anything in American law.
2013-04-08 01:06:32 PM  
2 votes:
This is the precisely the same turd of the people that bangs on about the Constitution and then chooses to interpret it to mean the exact opposite of what it was clearly intended to mean and what it clearly says.

Well-regulated militia=Wild, Wild West free-for-all

No law respecting an Establishment of Religion=Obligatory Establishment of the Christian Religion aka Kristian Amerka-ka-ka.

Natural born American=the scion of one or more American citizens, whether born in the USA or abroad, who have lived at least x percent of their life in America before the age of 18=The candidate we like (McCain, born in Panama), but not the candidate we don't like (Obama, born in Hawaii)

And don't for God's sake remind them of the 10th Amendment, the 14th Amendment, etc. They're not quite ready for black people to have the vote. Well, black people and women. Black people, women, gays, liberals, moderates, socialists, social democrats, trade unionists, statists, poor people, non-Christians, atheists, etc. To make a long list short, the vote should belong to the same minority class of landed Whigs and Tories that enjoyed it prior to the Revolution and shortly thereafter.

Government of the People, by the Classes and for the Classes.

They spend their whole political careers trying to prove that the Constitution was a mistake. They very nearly succeed by simply existing.
2013-04-08 12:59:19 PM  
2 votes:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Now piss off.
2013-04-08 12:44:45 PM  
2 votes:
To be fair, you can always find a 1/3 of the populace to support something stupid.
2013-04-08 12:42:02 PM  
2 votes:

Kali-Yuga: The real question is, how can christianity be the official religion when Bill O'Reilly told me christianity isn't a religion, it's a philosophy?


He's Catholic.  A not-unsubstantial part of that particular 33% would also say that disqualifies him as a "True Christian."
2013-04-08 12:41:02 PM  
2 votes:

Publikwerks: It's funny that the people who scream the loudest against Sharia Law in the United States would be ok with it with a simple name change, like calling it Jesus Law.


THIS!!!
2013-04-08 12:39:55 PM  
2 votes:

PainInTheASP: And roughly the same number of Americans gave a big-ole "thumbs-up" to our previous administration during the entirety of its term.


Exactly. And 1/3 of Germans would like Hitler back.

There is always one third of your population that is batshiat. No matter what.
2013-04-08 12:33:37 PM  
2 votes:
that's disturbing

i wonder how that would break down by denomination, and if they'd have been cool with a different denomination then theirs as the official?
2013-04-08 12:32:29 PM  
2 votes:
Why do a third of Americans hate the Constitution?  Why are they so disrespectful of the Founding Fathers?
2013-04-08 12:28:02 PM  
2 votes:
Where's the "Obvious" tag?
2013-04-08 12:06:53 PM  
2 votes:

SilentStrider: They might as well worship cows. They sure as hell aren't worshipping Christ.


Done in one.
2013-04-08 12:06:01 PM  
2 votes:

ThatGuyGreg: Meaning 66% of Americans don't... I'm OK with that.


I'm not.  That's offensively low.  I'm sure every one of those morons also spouts shiat about how the Founding Fathers knew everything and wanted us to be a Christian country.

Of course, they can never answer this question: why didn't they?  There was absolutely nothing stopping them from directly declaring that.  They did no such thing and made sure it wasn't possible to.
2013-04-08 12:01:13 PM  
2 votes:

ThatGuyGreg: Meaning 66% of Americans don't... I'm OK with that.


This.
2013-04-08 11:50:00 AM  
2 votes:
So 33% of American's think this makes 'merica better than them muslin nations?
2013-04-08 11:29:52 AM  
2 votes:
I don't think they thought their cunning plan through...not that they ever have.
2013-04-09 12:36:47 AM  
1 votes:

The Bruce Dickinson: [www.godsboard.com image 600x250]


People who feed Christians to lions hate lions.  There needs to be a lion rights movement.
2013-04-09 12:11:24 AM  
1 votes:
Looks like Fat Ass had a field day trolling this thread.  No one could actually be that stupid.
2013-04-08 11:12:53 PM  
1 votes:

Great Porn Dragon: Keizer_Ghidorah: You know, the Puritans came to the New World specifically to get away from their religion-run country because they got thrown the hell out of Europe for being a bunch of insufferable theocratic pricks, which was subsequently proven when their brothers-in-arms overthrew the legitimate government of Great Britain and turned it into a proto-dominionist "Democratic Republic" dictatorship until the legitimate King and non-religionationalist members of Parliament had to stage a counter-coup...and further proven when the Massachusetts Colony became one of the decidedly worse theocratic colonial governments to the point that the Pennsylvania Colony was founded SPECIFICALLY as a refugee colony founded by Friends, deists, and pretty much anyone who was literally in some cases running for their lives.  (As a side note, it's largely the Pennsylvania experience as well as that of Virginia deists and Baptists that led to the whole damn concept of the Bill of Rights, seeing as the excesses of the more theocratic colonies were VERY much in living memory of the Founding Fathers.)

Corrected that for you, extensively:

a) The Puritans were part of a movement that pretty much felt that not only the Protestant Reformation but the CoE splitting from the Catholic Church weren't far enough--that NO Christian church was sufficiently pure other than them--and were hardline Calvinists who were increasingly hostile to the British government to the point they were becoming a frank national security risk...basically imagine ALL the NARasites and dominionists in the US explicitly supporting not only the overthrow of the legitimate government of the US because they WON'T set up a theocracy but believed they HAD to take on the general tactics of the Army of God terrorists so that Jesus could begin his millennial reign, and you get the idea.

(And yes, that was pretty much political Puritanism in a nutshell--they were actually a sort of proto-Christian Reconstructionist group who b ...


And this is why religion is pointless.
2013-04-08 07:46:11 PM  
1 votes:
... because, constitutionally, attempting to force the endorsement of a national, state or county religion is an act of war.  People who do so can be shot.
2013-04-08 07:00:28 PM  
1 votes:
How about this... We ask God.

If he descends from heaven in his glory that cannot be mistaken for anyone else and tells us which religion he chooses as "the religion of the USA" then we go with that. No questions, no debates, that will be it for ever and ever.

If he doesn't show in three days, we can take that as an absolute "No farking way". Okay? Let's go, say it with me...

"Hey God! What religion do you want us to follow as "The religion of the USA"? If you don't show up in three days, we'll have to take your answer to be "not any religion at all". Please let us know quickly! Thank you. (Amen.)"

It's all in the Lord's hands.
2013-04-08 06:27:01 PM  
1 votes:
One more thing.  If it is true, as people claim that our whole nation was founded on Christian ideals then what do you want? You already won didn't you? Do you need that stamp that says "my religion is government approved' so badly?
2013-04-08 06:10:22 PM  
1 votes:

Mr. Right: FarkinHostile: Mr. Right: Try as you may, you cannot deny the influence of Biblical philosophy on the founding of this country.

No? Could, oh, say Thomas Jefferson?:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

The Treaty of Tripoli


Ah, what the fark did he know about the founding of this country?

You'll note that the treaty specifically states that it was not founded on the Christian religion.  It never eschewed the philosophical roots.  There is a difference, as noted by Jefferson himself.  The Jefferson Bible, which is widely criticized by Christians, only cut out what Jefferson thought to be supernatural actions.  He was actually a fan of the moral and ethical teachings of Christ.

If you read the rest of the paragraph of the Treaty, Jefferson is basically being obsequious to the Muslims in Tripoli.  Probably something to do with trying to make sure the Barbary Pirates didn't confiscate any more of our ships and enslave any more of our sailors.  Given that we were about as far from a global superpower as a country could be in those days, it may have been the better part of valor.


Actually, I agree with all of this. Yet Christianity is based on the philosophical roots of other ancient societies/communities/religions. Too often citing the 10 commandments as a basis of American law is a tactic by fanatics to push a religious agenda on us.

/I am also fan of the moral and ethical teachings of Christ.
//Wish more Christians were
2013-04-08 05:30:57 PM  
1 votes:

Tyrone Slothrop: /Actually I'm the center of the universe, and everything moves around me.


Technically, so is everywhere else, but that's another issue.

/but you knew that
2013-04-08 05:21:06 PM  
1 votes:

Mr. Right: Try as you may, you cannot deny the influence of Biblical philosophy on the founding of this country.


Maybe you can't...

In any case, there was one source that influenced the Founders waaaaaaay more than anything biblical: the Roman Republic.  Designed entirely by pagans.

The Founders, and the ancient Romans had much better ideas about governing than anything in the bible BY FAR.
2013-04-08 05:19:36 PM  
1 votes:
Religious Right.

"I don't trust the damn government to do anything right!"
"I want the government involved in my religion"

Whaaaa?
2013-04-08 05:04:59 PM  
1 votes:

Mr. Right: There is a reason that the 10 Commandments are enshrined in the Supreme Court - they are a substantial basis of American Law.


Really? What laws are based on:

1st: "Thou shall have no other gods before me:

2nd: "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

3rd: "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.

4th: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."

5th: "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you."

7th: "You shall not commit adultery.

10th: "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's." 3 out of 10.


The only commandments that have any laws "based" on then are: Thou shall not kill, Thou shall not steal and arguably Thou shall not bear false witness.  Frankly, killing, stealing and lying were frowned on before the 10 commandments, I'm sure.
2013-04-08 04:58:02 PM  
1 votes:
Crowd member to Adlai Stevenson "Senator, you have the vote of every thinking person!"
Stevenson: "That's not enough, madam, I need a majority."
2013-04-08 04:50:04 PM  
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: Does this mean they want a Department of Christianity?  A Secretary of Religion?  A bureaucracy to codify and regulate worship?

WTF does "official" mean??


10% tithe straight from the top of your paycheck to Westboro Baptist or whatever version of religion gets picked.
2013-04-08 04:43:08 PM  
1 votes:

James!: I say this doesn't go far enough.  The pledge of allegence should be replaced with 5 minutes of speaking in tongues.


I'm okay with this.

Also, we should have more stones lying around in Congress just in case.
2013-04-08 04:36:32 PM  
1 votes:

SkinnyHead: State establishments are not prohibited by the 1st Amendment.


You can keep saying that until the cows come home and it still won't be true.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Would you actually argue that a state could stifle free speech or freedom of the press? Because there's no distinction between those and the establishment clause. You could not be more wrong in your line of reasoning.
2013-04-08 04:29:12 PM  
1 votes:

eggrolls: Catholic - 68.5 million
Southern Baptist - 16.1 million
Methodist - 7.8 million
Mormons - 6 million
Church of Christ - 5.5 million
National Baptist - 5 million
Lutheran - 4.5 million

So it looks like the US is going Papist!

40-60 million agnostics, atheists or 'no religious affiliation'.
5-6 million Jews
Another 5 million Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus.


Where do the megachurches fit into this accounting?  They seem to be run as private businesses rather than being affiliated with any one denomination.
2013-04-08 03:53:55 PM  
1 votes:

HazMatt: Overfiend: God's Hubris: Believe women are incapable of making decisions about their own bodies. Check.

This argument/point is far from the truth.

Those who are Pro-life arent against a woman making decisions about her own body.  Pro-lifers believe the unborn baby (fetus) is a living being - and that's who they wish to protect.  Most Pro-lifers would care less if a woman wanted to go out and:

Get tattoos
Get piercings/body modifications
Get cosmetic surgery
Get a hysterectomy
Or anything else for that matter...

...except dont hurt the baby inside of them.

What is the intersection between these "Pro-lifers" and those that are opposed to a woman learning about / receiving birth control? I could respect the "protect the baby" argument if it didn't so often look more like medieval slut-shaming.


I agree - many people who claim to be Pro-life are so against contraception (when that could prevent pregnancy, thereby no need for an abortion) it makes no sense.

Many Pro-lifers are also rabid Death Penalty proponents - which, again, makes no sense...
2013-04-08 03:23:26 PM  
1 votes:
Remember when we had an official religion in the US? Good times.

aislingrunswithunicorns.files.wordpress.com
2013-04-08 03:12:44 PM  
1 votes:
I'm sure it's been said already, but the actual take-away from this is that 33% of people living in the United States of America aren't members of it's social contract apparently.
2013-04-08 02:46:35 PM  
1 votes:

CleanAndPure: So out of 10 commandments... more are unconstitutional than are applied. How the hell can anyone say our laws are based on 10 commandments.


Because people are f*cking uneducated fools.  We live in a nation where one of the major political parties mocks science and considers education elitist.  They also happen to be the pro-religion party.

And "dumb" and "religious" are the primary attributes of their voting bloc.
2013-04-08 02:06:52 PM  
1 votes:

ThatGuyGreg: Meaning 66% of Americans don't... I'm OK with that.


This. America doesn't have an "official religion" for a friggin' reason - that whole "freedom" concept.

nocturnal001: Even if it were not strictly constitutional, that doesn't mean it's not pants on head retarded.


And, this, basically.
2013-04-08 01:58:57 PM  
1 votes:

nekom: Kali-Yuga: Flappyhead: Why do a third of Americans hate the Constitution?  Why are they so disrespectful of the Founding Fathers?

Stupidity, a lack of education, and willful ignorance, I mean we are talking about religious people here.

The real question is, how can christianity be the official religion when Bill O'Reilly told me christianity isn't a religion, it's a philosophy?

http://atheism.about.com/b/2012/12/19/bill-oreilly-christianity-is-n ot -a-religion-its-a-philosophy.htm

Actually to be fair, most religions do contain a lot of philosophy. Even someone who does not believe that Jesus was the son of god might say that they are a fan of his teachings. Love thy neighbor, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, etc. In some ways, I argue that Buddhism is a philosophy and not a religion. It has no creation myth, which seems to me to be the defining thing between a religion and a philosophy.


Religion is a learned behavior and a lifestyle choice.
/sometimes, it's just plain ol' mental illness.
2013-04-08 01:55:32 PM  
1 votes:

TV's Vinnie: Just TRY forcing me into a church and praying to Republican Jeebus! I'll be muttering verses from the Necronomicon under my breath.


Why under your breath?
2013-04-08 01:52:11 PM  
1 votes:

SkinnyHead: voodoolady: SkinnyHead: mbillips: You know what's explicitly in the Constitution? The judicial branch, and their responsibility of interpreting it in relation to court cases. The application of the Bill of Rights to the states, particularly the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, has been nailed down as solidly as anything in American law.

So in other words, the prohibition against a state establishment of religion is not specifically found in the constitution, it is something that has been invented by the judicial branch.  So the 1/3 of Americans who would support a state establishment are not going against the constitution itself, they are going against what they see as a misinterpretation of the constitution by the judicial branch.

No. It is in the Constitution. It's in the 14th Amendment.

Additionally, you kind of go into some sort of self-defeating logic because the Constitution gives the judicial branch the power to interpret laws. That you or I disagree with their interpretation doesn't make it unconstitutional.

But people are free to point out where they think that Supreme Court was wrong.  There is nothing in the 14th that says that states cannot establish a religion.  The purpose of the Establishment Clause was to protect existing state establishments.  It is illogical to say that the 14th Amendment incorporates the Establishment Clause so as to prohibit state establishments when the purpose of the Establishment Clause was to protect state establishments.


Absolutely we can point out where we think the court is wrong. I think Kelo v. New London was decided incorrectly, for example. But there might be a difference between thinking one case being decided incorrectly and thinking that 100 years of precedent is unconstitutional. And establishing a state religion deprives a person of liberty.
2013-04-08 01:47:24 PM  
1 votes:
So "christianity" is something that can be an official religion?

I would actually love to see this happen just to see these dumb shiats get pissed off when it winds up not being their brand of Christianity that becomes official. Oh, sorry Methodists and baptists your churches are now banned, only Lutheranism is allowed now.
2013-04-08 01:31:18 PM  
1 votes:

SkinnyHead: mbillips: You know what's explicitly in the Constitution? The judicial branch, and their responsibility of interpreting it in relation to court cases. The application of the Bill of Rights to the states, particularly the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, has been nailed down as solidly as anything in American law.

So in other words, the prohibition against a state establishment of religion is not specifically found in the constitution, it is something that has been invented by the judicial branch.  So the 1/3 of Americans who would support a state establishment are not going against the constitution itself, they are going against what they see as a misinterpretation of the constitution by the judicial branch.


Many, many things you enjoy and take for granted are "not specifically in the constitution". Would you be so quick to give them up if it meant making Christianity the national religion by ignoring everything the judicial branch has set into law? Why do you want a national religion, anyway? You're not being oppressed, you're not being persecuted, you can worship perfectly fine without forcing it on the entire country.
2013-04-08 01:31:00 PM  
1 votes:

SkinnyHead: mbillips: You know what's explicitly in the Constitution? The judicial branch, and their responsibility of interpreting it in relation to court cases. The application of the Bill of Rights to the states, particularly the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, has been nailed down as solidly as anything in American law.

So in other words, the prohibition against a state establishment of religion is not specifically found in the constitution, it is something that has been invented by the judicial branch.  So the 1/3 of Americans who would support a state establishment are not going against the constitution itself, they are going against what they see as a misinterpretation of the constitution by the judicial branch.


Damn, elchip, that was so derpy that it took me full circle and got rid of the headache I got from a different thread!  Thanks, man!
2013-04-08 01:23:38 PM  
1 votes:
This country was never founded as a Christian nation.  Rather, it was founded on the judeo-christian philosophy.  Key elements of that were the supremacy of the rule of law, the equality of citizens before the law, and individual property rights for persons of any class.  Given that those were terribly radical ideas in that day, they weren't perfectly executed.  Slavery still existed.  Women had not achieved equality (although they were better treated under Judaism than many other societies of the day.  But the Jews understood that laws subject to the caprices of rulers would inevitably lead to tyranny.

The philosophical basis of Christianity is noble and worth pursuing.  But the founding fathers were acutely aware of the dangers of establishing any particular religion as the official religion.  Since the Reformation, Europe had been torn apart by religious schisms.  So they wisely chose to adopt the philosophy without being constrained by the religion.

It would be a mistake to change their vision.
2013-04-08 01:17:38 PM  
1 votes:
You know, the Puritans came to the New World specifically to get away from their religion-run country.
2013-04-08 01:12:02 PM  
1 votes:
I wonder how the pole would change if the language expressed was that the church with the largest number of American adherents would be the Official Church of the US, see census based chart:

Catholic - 68.5 million
Southern Baptist - 16.1 million
Methodist - 7.8 million
Mormons - 6 million
Church of Christ - 5.5 million
National Baptist - 5 million
Lutheran - 4.5 million

So it looks like the US is going Papist!
2013-04-08 01:11:14 PM  
1 votes:

Kali-Yuga: Flappyhead: Why do a third of Americans hate the Constitution?  Why are they so disrespectful of the Founding Fathers?

Stupidity, a lack of education, and willful ignorance, I mean we are talking about religious people here.

The real question is, how can christianity be the official religion when Bill O'Reilly told me christianity isn't a religion, it's a philosophy?

http://atheism.about.com/b/2012/12/19/bill-oreilly-christianity-is-n ot -a-religion-its-a-philosophy.htm


LOL, yeah the whole Jesus as a secular philosopher bit damn near gave me a laughter induced hernia years ago.  You'd think an ex altar boy would know better.
2013-04-08 01:10:03 PM  
1 votes:

Sticky Hands: It's all good and it's all in fun. Now get in the pit and try to love someone.


Is the bigotry, violence and misogyny that religion has caused on a global scale for the last couple thousand years "all good" and "all in fun"?  Religion is the most divisive and destructive force on the planet.
2013-04-08 01:09:06 PM  
1 votes:

God's Hubris: Believe women are incapable of making decisions about their own bodies. Check.


This argument/point is far from the truth.

Those who are Pro-life arent against a woman making decisions about her own body.  Pro-lifers believe the unborn baby (fetus) is a living being - and that's who they wish to protect.  Most Pro-lifers would care less if a woman wanted to go out and:

Get tattoos
Get piercings/body modifications
Get cosmetic surgery
Get a hysterectomy
Or anything else for that matter...

...except dont hurt the baby inside of them.
2013-04-08 01:04:16 PM  
1 votes:

SkinnyHead: voodoolady: SkinnyHead: wxboy: So one-third of Americans don't believe in the 1st amendment.  I bet most of those also vehemently defend the existence of the 2nd amendment.

It says that slightly more than a third of U.S. adults favor establishing Christianity as an official religion of their state.  The 1st Amendment only prohibits Congress from establishing a religion.  It was not intended to prevent state establishments.

What's that other one....the 14th maybe? What's that one do?

The Due Process Clause of the 14th says that no state may deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.  A state establishment of Christianity would not deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law, would it?


Yes. It makes the Bill of Rights applicable to the States.
2013-04-08 01:03:07 PM  
1 votes:

Galileo's Daughter: SkinnyHead: wxboy: So one-third of Americans don't believe in the 1st amendment.  I bet most of those also vehemently defend the existence of the 2nd amendment.

It says that slightly more than a third of U.S. adults favor establishing Christianity as an official religion of their state.  The 1st Amendment only prohibits Congress from establishing a religion.  It was not intended to prevent state establishments.

So, if states can establish a state religion, we could potentially see Jesusland running from the border of Texas in the west to the eastern seaboard south of the Mason-Dixon line.


North Carolina was going to try just that
http://www.wral.com/proposal-supports-state-religion-in-north-caroli na /12296876/

"SECTION 1. The North Carolina General Assembly asserts that the Constitution of the United States of America does not prohibit states or their subsidiaries from making laws respecting an establishment of religion.

SECTION 2. The North Carolina General Assembly does not recognize federal court rulings which prohibit and otherwise regulate the State of North Carolina, its public schools or any political subdivisions of the State from making laws respecting an establishment of religion."

It died though
http://www.wral.com/state-religion-proposal-dies-in-house/12305444/
2013-04-08 01:02:05 PM  
1 votes:

Kali-Yuga: Philosophy provides questions that may never be answered, Religion provides answers that may never be questioned.


It's all good and it's all in fun. Now get in the pit and try to love someone.
2013-04-08 01:00:46 PM  
1 votes:
Simple way to stop that. Tell all the Baptists and Lutherians they have to convert to Catholicism and vice versa and tell the same thing to the Pentacostals and Mormons. The epic head explosions would stop that in a jiffy.
2013-04-08 01:00:32 PM  
1 votes:
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."  Carlin

The number of the beast shall be 6, 6, and 7, rounded to the nearest tenth.
P0e
2013-04-08 12:59:45 PM  
1 votes:
Here's the thing that truly frustrates me about the Christian Right in the united states.  They treat the bible and the constitution with the same disrespect   They'll focus in on one very specific passage and then ignore and reject any other pieces that contradict them.  If the passages on homosexuality really are that bad, so are the ones right next to it that prohibit eating shellfish, shaving, and wearing blended fabrics.  Why aren't they pushing for those things as well?  Yes, people should be able to own guns, but we also have the right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness.  Gun violence is a violation of those non-amendment rights.
Its so frustrating that they think that they should be allowed to only follow the parts of law/religion that they like.
2013-04-08 12:58:14 PM  
1 votes:
I am a Christian and also among the 33% who think declaring Christianity as the official religion of the U.S. as a terrible idea.

I don't ever want to see one religion "selected by the government" over all others.  That idea frightens me...
2013-04-08 12:56:08 PM  
1 votes:

ISO15693: Hey - has anyone mocked the religious yet?


No.

Mocking wanna-be theocrats only looks like "mocking the religious" to the wanna-be theocrats themselves, and they are insane, evil, and stupid, so who cares?
2013-04-08 12:50:47 PM  
1 votes:
Hasten the Rapture!  That way maybe those of us left behind will get a break from this crap.
2013-04-08 12:50:36 PM  
1 votes:
"...and 19 percent [were] "not sure."

How the hell can you be "not sure" about something like that?  Seriously, 1/5 of the people surveyed can't figure out whether they want a religious state or not??

That's some scary shiat,man....
2013-04-08 12:47:31 PM  
1 votes:
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
2013-04-08 12:45:00 PM  
1 votes:

SkinnyHead: wxboy: So one-third of Americans don't believe in the 1st amendment.  I bet most of those also vehemently defend the existence of the 2nd amendment.

It says that slightly more than a third of U.S. adults favor establishing Christianity as an official religion of their state.  The 1st Amendment only prohibits Congress from establishing a religion.  It was not intended to prevent state establishments.


What's that other one....the 14th maybe? What's that one do?
2013-04-08 12:43:02 PM  
1 votes:
Apropos of nothing, John Lennon's statement is still correct.
2013-04-08 12:42:40 PM  
1 votes:
News Flash... the average American is stoopid as fark.

/NSS
2013-04-08 12:40:42 PM  
1 votes:

Publikwerks: It's funny that the people who scream the loudest against Sharia Law in the United States would be ok with it with a simple name change, like calling it Jesus Law.


Somehow I doubt that.

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.35By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."  -John 13:34-35

I think Jesus Law woud rather freak them out if they actually "studied it up"
2013-04-08 12:40:26 PM  
1 votes:

kryhme: I'm not a christian and I don't see this as a problem.

We have official trees, birds, songs, pies, etc.  Adding religion is just another one of those things.


That was my first thought, yeah.  "Official Religion" doesn't mean the same thing as, "A government within the tenets of...."  How it's phrased means a lot.
2013-04-08 12:39:51 PM  
1 votes:
So farking what?

Which domestic beer sells more than any other beer year after year by a wide margin in the USA?

Bud Light.
2013-04-08 12:36:34 PM  
1 votes:
Which "Christianty" are they talking about? Catholics? Baptists? Jehovah's Witness'? They hate each other. We could be like Northern Ireland only bigger.
2013-04-08 12:35:19 PM  
1 votes:
I'm not a christian and I don't see this as a problem.

We have official trees, birds, songs, pies, etc.  Adding religion is just another one of those things.

Now, someone who gets upset over these trivialities, now those people are the problem.
2013-04-08 12:35:09 PM  
1 votes:
Hey, 18% believe that the sun orbits the earth. Another 18% believe the President is the anti-Christ. IOW, you can get a sizable minority to agree to any idiotic thing that strikes your fancy. Video at 11.
2013-04-08 12:34:38 PM  
1 votes:
i105.photobucket.com
2013-04-08 12:34:01 PM  
1 votes:
www.tillhecomes.org
2013-04-08 12:32:20 PM  
1 votes:
I believe in Odhinn and Thor. So that's one who doesn't agree with Christianity.
2013-04-08 12:31:53 PM  
1 votes:
Only a third of Americans?

/in before they cry persecution, I suppose
2013-04-08 12:07:00 PM  
1 votes:

violentsalvation: ThatGuyGreg: Meaning 66% of Americans don't... I'm OK with that.

66.6%, hilariously appropriate.


Not to spoil the irony, but with single digit precision, it would properly be rounded up to 66.7%
2013-04-08 11:40:14 AM  
1 votes:

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: James!: Which one?

The correct one.


Ah, so snake handling.
2013-04-08 11:38:37 AM  
1 votes:

James!: Which one?


The one that follows the version of the Bible written a short 1600 years after Christ.
 
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