If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Vice)   What do you mean we atheists are Islamophobe hatemongers? That's ridi... well, that's actually pretty spot-on   (vice.com) divider line 678
    More: Sad, new atheists, Islamophobia, The God Delusion, Islamist terrorists, Thomas Aquinas, God Is Not Great, Islamic fundamentalism, atheists  
•       •       •

14325 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Apr 2013 at 5:39 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



678 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-04-08 02:33:20 PM  

Inflatable Rhetoric: NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: It does a reasonably good job at getting certain groups to act a certain way.

That's at least difficult to measure.
And some of these groups act in a way which is problematic, to say the least.
And then, there's nothing for comparison, except other religions.

Hey man, did you read above in your own quote what I wrote about comparisons?
The soviet union did not have a religion.  In fact, it was outlawed by the communist party.
The Soviets killed millions of their own (under Stalin).
The same thing occurred under Mao in China with the Great Leap forward.  Millions of Chinese starved to death, as with Stalin.

For some reason, you don't see this MASS MURDER of their OWN PEOPLE by a more religious government.
There's your comparison with Atheists in power.  Discuss.

Really?  You haven't heard about the Inquisition?



He may well have heard about the Inquisition, but sadly,  NostroZ is not renown for his rigorous intellectual honesty when disagreeing with someone in a Fark thread.
 
2013-04-08 02:35:10 PM  

ciberido: Inflatable Rhetoric: NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: It does a reasonably good job at getting certain groups to act a certain way.

That's at least difficult to measure.
And some of these groups act in a way which is problematic, to say the least.
And then, there's nothing for comparison, except other religions.

Hey man, did you read above in your own quote what I wrote about comparisons?
The soviet union did not have a religion.  In fact, it was outlawed by the communist party.
The Soviets killed millions of their own (under Stalin).
The same thing occurred under Mao in China with the Great Leap forward.  Millions of Chinese starved to death, as with Stalin.

For some reason, you don't see this MASS MURDER of their OWN PEOPLE by a more religious government.
There's your comparison with Atheists in power.  Discuss.

Really?  You haven't heard about the Inquisition?


He may well have heard about the Inquisition, but sadly,  NostroZ is not renown for his rigorous intellectual honesty when disagreeing with someone in a Fark thread.


If he did more quote mining, I'd think it was bevets 2.0.
 
2013-04-08 02:37:34 PM  

Biological Ali: why it's laughed at by those who have even a cursory familiarity with logic - including many theists).


You can laugh at me all you want.

You can pretend that I'm a troll or whatever makes you happy to 'write off the argument as silly'.

Yet, the choice is clear.  Do I believe in God?  Yes or No?
What is the consequence of yes - What is the consequence of no.

This is Pascal's Argument...  There is no getting around it.
Call me whatever you want all day (abusive ad hominem Mr. Logic man), this is a real choice for real people...
Belief cannot be PROVEN true or false, hence logic only goes so far.

The human brain has two hemisphere's... One is logic, the other is intuition.
You're here arguing that based on ONE HEMISPHERE's function you are 100% right, but we have TWO.
Logic is not the end-all-be-all for the human species.  Not functionally.  Not biologically.
 
2013-04-08 02:41:37 PM  

Biological Ali: Oh. You're doing that thing where you take a terms with specific, commonly-understood meanings and substitute them with meanings that are so broad as to be meaningless in order to defend some silly equivocation.


s2s2s2: Unless you use the less often accepted, but far more accurate, definition of religion that covers sports fanatics and atheist crusaders.


Not really.

I didn't put that specific definition in the dictionary. It has evolved with common usage.
 
2013-04-08 02:42:20 PM  

NostroZ: The human brain has two hemisphere's... One is logic, the other is intuition.
You're here arguing that based on ONE HEMISPHERE's function you are 100% right, but we have TWO.
Logic is not the end-all-be-all for the human species. Not functionally. Not biologically.


I'm sensing a Time Cube vibe from this post. If that's what you were channeling, I've got to say you did a pretty decent job.
 
2013-04-08 02:45:12 PM  

ciberido: s2s2s2: Unless you use the less often accepted, but far more accurate, definition of religion that covers sports fanatics and atheist crusaders.

Please do not use the word "religion" to mean "life stance."


I'll use a word to whatever ends any applicable definition allows. I am sorry I am unable to comply with your request.
 
2013-04-08 02:45:32 PM  

Biological Ali: liam76: So there is death penalty for apostacy in Uganda?

Or do you mean they are "on par" on the issue of gays, even though the law that included death penalty was never passed, yet is the law in many muslim coutnries?

Would you say that a lynching is about on par with an execution?


For the person it happens to, yeah.  For judging the society?  No.

One is the act of a handful and the other is supported by most people.


ciberido: So .... that's like the atheist version of "Love the sinner, hate the sin"?

And when right-wing Christians say they condemn homosexuality but don't hate gay people, you're fine with that


No.  They are saying acts that are intrinsic to being gay are wrong.  They are saying two consenting gay people shouldn't be allowed to do what they want.  My problems with religion have no corresponding demands onw hat people should be allowed to do.
 
2013-04-08 02:46:13 PM  

NostroZ: Yet, the choice is clear. Do I believe in God? Yes or No?


An even clearer choice would be:  Do I believe I have a ten inch dong?  Yes or No?

Considering all the fly honeys will be all over me like stank on shiat, I'm hedging my bet on YES.

Look out Farkers!  Hide your women!  Vactech coming through!
 
2013-04-08 02:46:27 PM  

s2s2s2: Not really.

I didn't put that specific definition in the dictionary. It has evolved with common usage.


Hate to break it to you, but what you're doing here has already been done (and done better too):

A feather is light.
What is light cannot be dark.
Therefore, a feather cannot be dark.
 
2013-04-08 02:46:52 PM  

give me doughnuts: He may well have heard about the Inquisition, but sadly, NostroZ is not renown for his rigorous intellectual honesty when disagreeing with someone in a Fark thread.


Naturally, snide insults directed to me as a 3rd person comparison IS INTELLECTUALLY HONEST WHEN DISAGREEING.

Mr.Doughnuts, you've proven yourself to not only have a one-sided conversation where you scream your viewpoint without listening to another.  Now you have gone out of your way to insult me.

I can only imagine this is how you view a morally just society without religion.
One where you cynically sit back and make fun of anyone who has an idea different than yours.

I'm not here to listen to rude kids get their kicks from insulting people.
You have the WHOLE internet to be a douchebag on... please find a new audience to vomit your hate on.

You are now BLOCKED on my account.
Good day sir
 
2013-04-08 02:47:25 PM  

NostroZ: Agent Smiths Laugh: While we're at it, why do you capitalize ego? Also, your statements remind me of this to a degree.

I capitalized ego in the same sentence as I capitalized god, since both are bigger than life forces.

I definitely see what you mean about the ego being manipulated by religions.  Yet, there are religions like Buddhism which seek to eliminate the ego. I'd also argue that the average believer gives up a part of their selfish interests in order to serve the community better (see church sales, philanthropy, etc.).


I'd argue that every believer is ultimately only serving their own ego in a number of ways. Sense of hope, Sense of superiority. Sense of belonging. Sense of purpose. Sense of destiny. Sense of love. So forth.

I'd argue that there is no actual altruism devoid of selfishness. The ego, the self, seeks gratification and preservation in all things.

An interesting segment of a show dealing with the subject:

http://youtu.be/WYdgcKjbp3Y

Though its a bit sensationalized, and I'm not quite sure how accurate to Price's actual life it is.

In general, the human ego and god are inter-wound.
My issue with atheism is that it does not address the issue of ego.
Ego that when left unchecked has caused rulers of countries to kill millions in the name of progress.


Yes, indeed, human cruelty is a persistent problem for our species, justified by any number of ideologies, including religions.

But did you think your god's ego was exempt from genocidal guilt?

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/genocide.html
 
2013-04-08 02:52:35 PM  

NostroZ: give me doughnuts: He may well have heard about the Inquisition, but sadly, NostroZ is not renown for his rigorous intellectual honesty when disagreeing with someone in a Fark thread.

Naturally, snide insults directed to me as a 3rd person comparison IS INTELLECTUALLY HONEST WHEN DISAGREEING.

Mr.Doughnuts, you've proven yourself to not only have a one-sided conversation where you scream your viewpoint without listening to another.  Now you have gone out of your way to insult me.

I can only imagine this is how you view a morally just society without religion.
One where you cynically sit back and make fun of anyone who has an idea different than yours.

I'm not here to listen to rude kids get their kicks from insulting people.
You have the WHOLE internet to be a douchebag on... please find a new audience to vomit your hate on.

You are now BLOCKED on my account.
Good day sir


Religion prevents people from cynically sitting back and making fun of anyone who has a different idea? God told his followers to go out and either convert or kill those tho refused to convert.
 
2013-04-08 02:55:54 PM  

Slam Dunkz: Sam responded to a lot of this hogwash on his site.   Give it a read if you want to cut through the he-said-she-said and really see how disingenuous some of these reporters are.


Well, Harris is well spoken and makes a few good points, I'll give him that much.  I still disagree vehemently with much of what he said in the article you linked to, but thank you for the link.  Better to disagree with what he says himself than say I disagree based on what someone else said he said.
 
2013-04-08 02:56:31 PM  

Biological Ali: Hate to break it to you, but what you're doing here has already been done (and done better too):


Then you are in luck. That post wasn't breaking anything to me, nor relevant to an applicable definition of a word, found in a dictionary.

Weight
Not Weight
Not Weight

All stupid.
 
2013-04-08 03:00:32 PM  

s2s2s2: ciberido: s2s2s2: Unless you use the less often accepted, but far more accurate, definition of religion that covers sports fanatics and atheist crusaders.

Please do not use the word "religion" to mean "life stance."

I'll use a word to whatever ends any applicable definition allows. I am sorry I am unable to comply with your request.


It's intellectual dishonesty and deliberate confusion to push your agenda, and will therefore cause people (at least one, anyway) to lose some respect for you, but do what you have to do.
 
2013-04-08 03:01:14 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: I'd argue that every believer is ultimately only serving their own ego in a number of ways. Sense of hope, Sense of superiority. Sense of belonging. Sense of purpose. Sense of destiny. Sense of love. So forth.

I'd argue that there is no actual altruism devoid of selfishness. The ego, the self, seeks gratification and preservation in all things.


Yet, what you're saying is that the ACTIONS are good... the motivation might be selfish, but the result of serving the community is real.

Therefore, the proof is in the pudding.

It does not matter if the religious congregation is fueled by purpose, belonging, destiny, love, etc.
What matters is that they are improving the community!

Hence, religion is a positive force upon humanity.
 
2013-04-08 03:01:24 PM  

NostroZ: give me doughnuts: He may well have heard about the Inquisition, but sadly, NostroZ is not renown for his rigorous intellectual honesty when disagreeing with someone in a Fark thread.

Naturally, snide insults directed to me as a 3rd person comparison IS INTELLECTUALLY HONEST WHEN DISAGREEING.

Mr.Doughnuts, you've proven yourself to not only have a one-sided conversation where you scream your viewpoint without listening to another.  Now you have gone out of your way to insult me.

I can only imagine this is how you view a morally just society without religion.
One where you cynically sit back and make fun of anyone who has an idea different than yours.

I'm not here to listen to rude kids get their kicks from insulting people.
You have the WHOLE internet to be a douchebag on... please find a new audience to vomit your hate on.

You are now BLOCKED on my account.
Good day sir


Since I never said that, you've proven yourself to be both a fool, and a coward.
 
2013-04-08 03:01:57 PM  

ciberido: Slam Dunkz: Sam responded to a lot of this hogwash on his site.   Give it a read if you want to cut through the he-said-she-said and really see how disingenuous some of these reporters are.

Well, Harris is well spoken and makes a few good points, I'll give him that much.  I still disagree vehemently with much of what he said in the article you linked to, but thank you for the link.  Better to disagree with what he says himself than say I disagree based on what someone else said he said.


Harris does have his flaws, but then so does everyone. There is not a single person I have ever met with whom I agree about everything.

The trick is taking a critical eye to anything anyone presents to you. Then you make your own judgements.
 
2013-04-08 03:08:40 PM  

ciberido: It's intellectual dishonesty and deliberate confusion to push your agenda, and will therefore cause people (at least one, anyway) to lose some respect for you, but do what you have to do.


My original suggestion indicated that the unwillingness to use this definition where it fits is quite common.

How that is intellectually dishonest you may need to explain to me. I'm not trying to trick anyone into anything but recognizing what science already does. Some people put a level of religious fervor into that which is not colloquially recognized as religious activity. But that term "religious activity" is telling. Religion is practice, not just observance.

If you put religious fervor (use the same parts of the brain) into sports fandom as some put into church participation, and often times much much more, how is that not religion?

If your answer is because that word doesn't apply, you are wrong.
If it is because you don't like it and it confuses you, maybe you shouldn't engage.
 
2013-04-08 03:10:55 PM  

s2s2s2: If you put religious fervor (use the same parts of the brain) into sports fandom as some put into church participation, and often times much much more, how is that not religion?

If your answer is because that word doesn't apply, you are wrong.


Only if you live in a world where "religious fervor" is all it takes to have religion.

We don't live in that world.
 
2013-04-08 03:10:58 PM  

liam76: For the person it happens to, yeah. For judging the society? No.

One is the act of a handful and the other is supported by most people.


A bit odd to suggest that some part off a fundamentally undemocratic regime is something that's "supported by most people". It's not as though the people in Iran or the various Gulf countries had elections in which they decided to put these laws in place. The only meaningful metric, as far as I can see, is the actual consequences faced by real people in those societies.

To that end, let's say you had one society where a certain thing was officially punishable by death, and another in which the thing was "merely" punishable by prison time. And let's say further that the latter country had lynchings and murders that were as numerous (or more) as the people being killed in the former country (counting both executions and vigilante action), along with evidence that large parts of the state apparatus encourage or at least condone this kind of action. I wouldn't have any trouble saying that these two countries were "on par" with each other in terms of what's happening there in the names of their respective religions.
 
2013-04-08 03:11:28 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Religion prevents people from cynically sitting back and making fun of anyone who has a different idea? God told his followers to go out and either convert or kill those tho refused to convert.


Yes!!!
Religion tempers people to listen to others.

Here's some quotes from a book you only seem to know the parts that you disagree with:

James 1:19 Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger;
Proverbs 19:27 Cease to hear instruction, my son, and you will stray from the words of knowledge.
Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice.
Proverbs 18:13 If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame.
Proverbs 11:14 Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety.
Proverbs 10:19 When words are many, transgression is not lacking, but whoever restrains his lips is prudent.
 
2013-04-08 03:12:17 PM  

NostroZ: Hence, religion is a positive force upon humanity.


Near as I can tell, just about anything that makes mankind believe that the sun doesn't shine out of their ass has been useful.  We can't give people power over a f*cking dry cleaner store without them  getting delusions if grandeur.  Societal management?  Pfft.
 
2013-04-08 03:14:35 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Sid_6.7: Doktor_Zhivago: If we all just ignore him he'll go away one day. . .

I ignore people quite infrequently, usually it's only automatic if I notice they're making repeated, blatantly racists comments without any sense of irony. But he made my list quite some time ago.

Mmmmmmm..... Islam is not a race.


No sh*t?!

I never said it was. I was referring to people who tend to post things that are racist.
 
2013-04-08 03:18:17 PM  

liam76: Only if you live in a world where "religious fervor" is all it takes to have religion.

We don't live in that world.


By democratic vote. Yes, I've noticed. The world seems to be a very confused place. All we need to do is agree on everything, regardless of what that is, and we won't have any more trouble.

I wasn't suggesting that we do call these things religion. I'm saying it doesn't really mean anything that we don't.
 
2013-04-08 03:20:01 PM  

bunner: NostroZ: Hence, religion is a positive force upon humanity.

Near as I can tell, just about anything that makes mankind believe that the sun doesn't shine out of their ass has been useful.  We can't give people power over a f*cking dry cleaner store without them  getting delusions if grandeur.  Societal management?  Pfft.


a.abcnews.go.com
Hell yeah... look at North Korea, they invented a religion around their great leader where before they had none.
By invented, I mean, forced down their throat in a military dictatorship.
The power of personal ego... to invent a religion where you are at the center.
 
2013-04-08 03:21:21 PM  

NostroZ: Agent Smiths Laugh: I'd argue that every believer is ultimately only serving their own ego in a number of ways. Sense of hope, Sense of superiority. Sense of belonging. Sense of purpose. Sense of destiny. Sense of love. So forth.

I'd argue that there is no actual altruism devoid of selfishness. The ego, the self, seeks gratification and preservation in all things.

Yet, what you're saying is that the ACTIONS are good... the motivation might be selfish, but the result of serving the community is real.

Therefore, the proof is in the pudding.

It does not matter if the religious congregation is fueled by purpose, belonging, destiny, love, etc.
What matters is that they are improving the community!

Hence, religion is a positive force upon humanity.


And also a negative force, just like any other human ideology (as is historically and contemporaneously) demonstrable. Any human motivation or action can be used for good or harm.

We never, ever, move beyond human responsibility for its actions.

No amount of good or evil done by any religion ever proves, empirically, its claims of god, satan, and all the trappings that come with them. And with that, the claim that there is an objective morality that is the final arbiter of human action goes right out the window.

In regards to human actions, the only thing we can demonstrate empirically is human action.

But when faced with that, do we even need gods to judge and/or guide our actions? Name one perceptible act of good or evil that a human being can accomplish that can not be accomplished without the divine.
 
2013-04-08 03:21:40 PM  

s2s2s2: Then you are in luck. That post wasn't breaking anything to me, nor relevant to an applicable definition of a word, found in a dictionary.


These semantic parlor tricks are only good for cheap jokes and riddles. Doing this in a serious discussion, as ciberido pointed out, will accomplish nothing other than annoying the people talking to you.
 
2013-04-08 03:23:18 PM  

Biological Ali: liam76: For the person it happens to, yeah. For judging the society? No.

One is the act of a handful and the other is supported by most people.

A bit odd to suggest that some part off a fundamentally undemocratic regime is something that's "supported by most people". It's not as though the people in Iran or the various Gulf countries had elections in which they decided to put these laws in place.



If I was saying "every part" that would be odd.  Death penalty for gay peopel isn't a copntraversial topic in the muslim world.

Take a look at page 14 http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf">http://www .civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

Even in 1st world countries dislike for gays is widespread among muslims.


Biological Ali: To that end, let's say you had one society where a certain thing was officially punishable by death, and another in which the thing was "merely" punishable by prison time. And let's say further that the latter country had lynchings and murders that were as numerous (or more) as the people being killed in the former country (counting both executions and vigilante action), along with evidence that large parts of the state apparatus encourage or at least condone this kind of action. I wouldn't have any trouble saying that these two countries were "on par" with each other in terms of what's happening there in the names of their respective religions


What two countries are we talking about?  There are numerous Muslim countries where the penalty is death, and there are numerous countries where you will get jail time and can be lynched for being gay.  You are pointing to one christian country that contemplated a law including death penalty and saying they (all non western christiand countries) are on par.
 
2013-04-08 03:24:46 PM  

NostroZ: Biological Ali: why it's laughed at by those who have even a cursory familiarity with logic - including many theists).

You can laugh at me all you want.

You can pretend that I'm a troll or whatever makes you happy to 'write off the argument as silly'.

Yet, the choice is clear.  Do I believe in God?  Yes or No?
What is the consequence of yes - What is the consequence of no.

This is Pascal's Argument...  There is no getting around it.
Call me whatever you want all day (abusive ad hominem Mr. Logic man), this is a real choice for real people...
Belief cannot be PROVEN true or false, hence logic only goes so far.

The human brain has two hemisphere's... One is logic, the other is intuition.
You're here arguing that based on ONE HEMISPHERE's function you are 100% right, but we have TWO.
Logic is not the end-all-be-all for the human species.  Not functionally.  Not biologically.


The problem with Pascal's is a pretty simple one. God is who ever people tell you God is, and that depends entirely on when and where you are born, so it's no more than a roulette game. Pick the wrong God and does as he tells you, even if it means killing other humans living under different God, and you might be actively working against the true God and ensuring a place in hell.

While if you choose to reject God, religion, and the people that prop up these things and do good, not for some treat at the end of fear of punishment, but because you actively think about what good is and try live a good life and make the world a little better for the people you'll someday leave behind, then I ask for what reason would a truly good god punish you for?

Would he not do the good thing and forgive you for not believing in him or any other God, and doing your utmost to live a good and moral life even though you did not believe you would receive a reward at the end? Or would his ego and pride be so hurt by your unbelief that he would do the truly evil thing, and cast you into eternal pain and suffering along with billions of good people that happen to land on the wrong spot on the religious roulette wheel? And if that God is evil enough to do that, why you want to serve him? Just because you are an ant before another being doesn't mean you should be an obedient ant and serve him by bringing suffering to others, even if he does hold the power of pain or comfort over you, like a dictator, king or, pope.
 
2013-04-08 03:26:09 PM  

NostroZ: I'm not here to listen to rude kids get their kicks from insulting people.


If you clicked on a Fark religion thread expecting everyone to behave, from atheists to fundamentalists, you're a damned fool.
 
2013-04-08 03:26:10 PM  

s2s2s2: liam76: Only if you live in a world where "religious fervor" is all it takes to have religion.

We don't live in that world.

By democratic vote. Yes, I've noticed. The world seems to be a very confused place. All we need to do is agree on everything, regardless of what that is, and we won't have any more trouble.

I wasn't suggesting that we do call these things religion. I'm saying it doesn't really mean anything that we don't.


When someon does or even brings it up they are clearly trying to distance themselves from the conversation at hand and play semantic tricks.  So yes it does matter that we don't because it lets us know who not to waste tiem with when they do.
 
2013-04-08 03:26:55 PM  

Biological Ali: Doing this in a serious discussion


HA. It isn't a Think Tank, It's Fark. Have some fun.

Biological Ali: will accomplish nothing other than annoying the people talking to you.


Everyone annoys, sometimes. Again, I'm not trying to trick you into believing we mean the same thing when we say religion. The term has become a pox on all to whom it is placed. I know why atheists don't want it used to describe them. It is the same reason many good hearted church folk reject the term these days.
 
2013-04-08 03:29:06 PM  

NostroZ: Keizer_Ghidorah: Religion prevents people from cynically sitting back and making fun of anyone who has a different idea? God told his followers to go out and either convert or kill those tho refused to convert.

Yes!!!
Religion tempers people to listen to others.
Here's some quotes from a book you only seem to know the parts that you disagree with:

James 1:19 Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger;
Proverbs 19:27 Cease to hear instruction, my son, and you will stray from the words of knowledge.
Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice.
Proverbs 18:13 If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame.
Proverbs 11:14 Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety.
Proverbs 10:19 When words are many, transgression is not lacking, but whoever restrains his lips is prudent.



Deuteronomy 17: 2-5 commands that non-believers be stoned to death.
 
2013-04-08 03:29:33 PM  

NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Yea, MAN has created terrible diseases, such as malaria, polio, the plague, ebola, diphtheria, etc, etc. A MERCIFUL GOD would never do that. Right?

I fear that stylistic rhetoric has obfuscated this discussion.

When I said history has shown us that MAN is less MERCIFUL than GOD, I meant the rule of men without religion versus rule with religion.  As with the case of atheist governments as was the case with USSR and China.  To some degree, the Mongols did not have a religion either, they were tolerant of their conquered people's religion... yet, what do you know about the Mongols... Ghangis Khan, a leader who's policy of conquest was complete and utter destruction.

My point is that religion tempers the human heart and keeps it from doing greater evil.


My point is that you're mistaken about that.

You're point seemed to be that GOD was more MERCIFUL than MAN.  Now your point is something else.
 
2013-04-08 03:31:20 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: But when faced with that, do we even need gods to judge and/or guide our actions? Name one perceptible act of good or evil that a human being can accomplish that can not be accomplished without the divine.


I feel we are at an impasse of this discussion as it hinges upon the definition of the divine.

Personally, I feel that love is a divine gift that brings us closer to one another and the great-beyond.
I also feel that creativity, whether it be in science, arts, or what have you, has the inspiration sparks of the divine.

Yet, I know you will have great issue with those statements, as what I described is imperceptible and is in fact intangible.
Only the actions that we take as a result of that love, the selfless acts of love, are the perceptible aspects.
The same goes for creativity.  While it is a thought, it cannot be measured.  Even before we have the full thought, an inspiration enters our mind yet we cannot trace the roots of it.  This is divine nature in my humble opinion.

God is not a static being that watches and judges me as I see it.
God is a verb... it is all around us and the better we tap into what 'walking in the path of God' the better human beings we are.
 
2013-04-08 03:32:23 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Uncle Tractor: HindiDiscoMonster: That's just like your opinion man.

Know why christianity keeps changing? Zeitgeist. Same with all other religions.

Christianity doesn't change. People change. Christianity is the same today as it was when it was first made.


So how many witch-burnings have you been to lately?
 
2013-04-08 03:32:58 PM  

NostroZ: give me doughnuts: what I do know is that nothing I do in life will have any effect on whether or not there is any "afterlife", or what form it will take.

I am envious of your certainty.

I have a hard time believing that billions of people on this planet are wrong and I am right.  Since every religion is based on a soul that is affected by this life's events, you are in a VERY minority view.  But I respect your life's choice and hopefully when the day comes to both of us, then we will know who is RIGHT for sure.

I'd rather hedge my bets and be a good person, as proscribed by all the faiths of the world.

If I may ask a hypothetical questions then...
You come upon a burning building and there is a young girl trapped inside.  You are the only one around who can help.  Do you help the girl inside and why?


I would attempt it.  I've saved dozens, maybe 100's of lives, at the risk of my own.
As to why, it's how I am.
 
2013-04-08 03:33:52 PM  

liam76: So yes it does matter that we don't because it lets us know who not to waste tiem with when they do.


You and a few others have initiated this conversation about the meaning of the word religion. I was talking to someone else who was talking about sports fandom.

They didn't like the definition I was using either, nor that I was using it, nor that it was a legitimate definition. I have established that it is.

If the same part of the brain is at play in either scenario(sports/church), and you don't believe there even is a god, then there is no difference in reality, apart from rules and manners. If you believe there is a god to separate the two, then we are having quite an interesting conversation, indeed.
 
2013-04-08 03:35:16 PM  

liam76: If I was saying "every part" that would be odd. Death penalty for gay peopel isn't a copntraversial topic in the muslim world.

Take a look at page 14 http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf">http://www .civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

Even in 1st world countries dislike for gays is widespread among muslims.


"Dislike for gays" is not synonymous with "Support the death penalty against gay people".

liam76: What two countries are we talking about? There are numerous Muslim countries where the penalty is death, and there are numerous countries where you will get jail time and can be lynched for being gay. You are pointing to one christian country that contemplated a law including death penalty and saying they (all non western christiand countries) are on par.


In this case I was comparing Iran to Uganda, where the numbers certainly are on par. There are other places in Africa where things are even worse, though the discussion is complicated by poor record-keeping.
 
2013-04-08 03:36:48 PM  

cman: propasaurus: That's fascinating. Do tell me how much you Christians love Islam.

The writer of the article is atheist

This is an atheist biatching about bigotry


Hmm, no. It's not bigotry to hate a religion. It's bigotry to hate the people who follow a religion, but it's not bigotry to hate a religion. "I hate Islam" isn't the same thing as "I hate Muslims."

/atheist
//Don't hate ANY religions, just don't think they're for me.
///I kinda privately mock neo-Pagans because that shiat's stupid and there's no excuse for choosing stupid, but I still don't hate them
 
2013-04-08 03:36:59 PM  

Rabbitgod: even if it means killing other humans living under different God, and you might be actively working against the true God and ensuring a place in hell.


Though shall not kill is a pretty universal commandment.

I do not care what you CALL God... I only care that you walk in the path of God.

/To walk in the path of God is to abstain from stealing (property, life, truth, etc.) and to bring greater harmony / understanding upon this world.
//I believe that there are many paths to the same God
///Morality, the golden rule... is pretty universal... a good deed is a good deed, regardless of which god is being praised while doing it.
 
2013-04-08 03:39:56 PM  

NostroZ: Keizer_Ghidorah: Religion prevents people from cynically sitting back and making fun of anyone who has a different idea? God told his followers to go out and either convert or kill those tho refused to convert.

Yes!!!
Religion tempers people to listen to others.
Here's some quotes from a book you only seem to know the parts that you disagree with:

James 1:19 Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger;
Proverbs 19:27 Cease to hear instruction, my son, and you will stray from the words of knowledge.
Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice.
Proverbs 18:13 If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame.
Proverbs 11:14 Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety.
Proverbs 10:19 When words are many, transgression is not lacking, but whoever restrains his lips is prudent.


Two can play that game:

1 Timothy 6:20 - O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1 Corinthians 14:38 - But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
Timothy 2:11 - "I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent."
Colossians 2:8 - Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

To name a few.
 
2013-04-08 03:42:06 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: give me doughnuts: HindiDiscoMonster: Uncle Tractor: HindiDiscoMonster: That's just like your opinion man.

Know why christianity keeps changing? Zeitgeist. Same with all other religions.

Christianity doesn't change. People change. Christianity is the same today as it was when it was first made.

So how many witch-burnings have you been to lately?

are you really that dumb or are you attempting to troll me?

Please show me the passage in the new testament which says "thou shalt burn the witch" or something similar.

/I won't hold my breath


So your version of Christianity doesn't include the Old Testament?
When did that change happen?
 
2013-04-08 03:44:30 PM  

give me doughnuts: So your version of Christianity doesn't include the Old Testament?
When did that change happen?


LOL. That may be a sad reflection on your knowledge of the subject, paired with your willingness to boldly speak thereon, but it is hilarious either way
 
2013-04-08 03:46:12 PM  

NostroZ: Agent Smiths Laugh: But when faced with that, do we even need gods to judge and/or guide our actions? Name one perceptible act of good or evil that a human being can accomplish that can not be accomplished without the divine.

I feel we are at an impasse of this discussion as it hinges upon the definition of the divine.

Personally, I feel that love is a divine gift that brings us closer to one another and the great-beyond.
I also feel that creativity, whether it be in science, arts, or what have you, has the inspiration sparks of the divine.

Yet, I know you will have great issue with those statements, as what I described is imperceptible and is in fact intangible.
Only the actions that we take as a result of that love, the selfless acts of love, are the perceptible aspects.
The same goes for creativity.  While it is a thought, it cannot be measured.  Even before we have the full thought, an inspiration enters our mind yet we cannot trace the roots of it.  This is divine nature in my humble opinion.

God is not a static being that watches and judges me as I see it.
God is a verb... it is all around us and the better we tap into what 'walking in the path of God' the better human beings we are.


That's very poetic, but I deal in reality.

I still challenge you, name one perceptible act of good or evil that a human being can accomplish that can not be accomplished without the divine. Without poetry, without sentiment. Without your feelings or emotions. Quantifiable evidence only.

Is there any one action of humanity that does requires something more than our own action and responsibility?
 
2013-04-08 03:46:21 PM  

maddogdelta: NostroZ: I'm not being ironic... but in truth, I see that believing is a better bet than not


Which god?  if you get that one wrong, it's just as bad as not believing.

Part b)  How much of a dick would your god have to be if he would let you go to heaven just by saying "you know, I had no evidence to believe anything, but I decided to say that I believed in you hoping that you would be fooled into thinking I was a true believer and not send me to hell"

God:  "Sounds good, go into heaven"
Ghandi :" I tried to do good things and free people."
God: "Did you believe the way the Catholic Church told you to believe?"
Ghandi: "No, I was a Hindu"
God: "Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to hell you go!"


You summed that up much nicer than I did, I'm just too wordy today.
 
2013-04-08 03:48:31 PM  

NostroZ: Rabbitgod: even if it means killing other humans living under different God, and you might be actively working against the true God and ensuring a place in hell.

Though shall not kill is a pretty universal commandment.

I do not care what you CALL God... I only care that you walk in the path of God.

/To walk in the path of God is to abstain from stealing (property, life, truth, etc.) and to bring greater harmony / understanding upon this world.
//I believe that there are many paths to the same God
///Morality, the golden rule... is pretty universal... a good deed is a good deed, regardless of which god is being praised while doing it.


Do you think people have to have a religion, believe in a god, to be concerned about the plight of other people?
 
2013-04-08 03:49:13 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: 1 Timothy 6:20 - O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1 Corinthians 14:38 - But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
Timothy 2:11 - "I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent."
Colossians 2:8 - Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

To name a few.


That's New Testament... I'm old school.
Regardless, my point was that religion is a force for good overall.
Yes, the Holy Roman empire used Catholicism as a tool of control... but the Roman's were a controlling power hungry bunch to begin with.  If it was not Christianity that they took on, since it was the last vestige of control over a crumbling empire, it would have been any other saving grace.

The argument here is that the EGG came before the CHICKEN.
Humanity's ego-maniacal desire for power came first.  Religion as a social construct came after and tempered the first.
 
2013-04-08 03:50:34 PM  

s2s2s2: give me doughnuts: So your version of Christianity doesn't include the Old Testament?
When did that change happen?

LOL. That may be a sad reflection on your knowledge of the subject, paired with your willingness to boldly speak thereon, but it is hilarious either way


You may want to have a look at this before you comment.
 
Displayed 50 of 678 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report