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(Vice)   What do you mean we atheists are Islamophobe hatemongers? That's ridi... well, that's actually pretty spot-on   (vice.com) divider line 678
    More: Sad, new atheists, Islamophobia, The God Delusion, Islamist terrorists, Thomas Aquinas, God Is Not Great, Islamic fundamentalism, atheists  
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14325 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Apr 2013 at 5:39 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-08 08:24:41 AM  
Wait, maybe I'm just allergic to Islam. Is that ok?
 
2013-04-08 08:27:56 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: I_C_Weener: Wait, maybe I'm just allergic to Islam. Is that ok?

yeah, but I don't think Benadryl is gonna help on that one...


Islam is the peanut butter to my nut based allergy.
 
2013-04-08 08:28:40 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: neversubmit: Magical thinking in adults is sad.

oh i dunno... some people make a good living with magic...

[www.magicallyfun.com image 600x600]

[globalfusionproductions.com image 500x348]

[a.abcnews.com image 640x360]


Wow! Everybody is being so helpful. Thank you.
 
2013-04-08 08:28:59 AM  

Marcintosh: [cdn.gagbay.com image 460x375]

My view, for what it's worth


So, does being an asshole include pointing out logical inconsistencies that are based on a faith-related issue, or is it only being an asshole if you launch into a prepared diatribe on theodicy, complete with Epicurus macros? Because if someone sincerely believes the Earth is 6,000 years old, I am going to disagree with them, publicly, for as long as it takes until they either accept it, or resort to ad hominem.
 
2013-04-08 08:30:30 AM  

omnibus_necanda_sunt: bunner: Religion and atheism have a lot in common.  They both like to blowhard false dichotomies between two approaches to life that have, so far, gotten us here.  Carry on.  Fresh poo and incredulous smirks at the popcorn stand.

Oh, for Christ's sake, all you ever do is mock people who support Democrats, Republicans, or third party candidates; private sector solutions or government ones; religion or irreligion. Just like with Amos, I'm beginning to think all you ever do is complain that the world is shiatty and refuse to offer any goddamned solutions. We got your point in the first dozen threads. Knock it off and be constructive.


To address the balance of your post, my only efforts have been to put forth the idea that, after eons of bumping into the same walls in the same rat maze, that it would, mayhaps, be beneficial to stand back a few feet and see if there is some more useful way to approach the business of living a life wherein one is aware of one's own mortality and yet it is usually spent trying to control the lives of others.  Cause so far, it's sucked fat walrus wang.  If that ain't constructive, I don't know what is..
 
2013-04-08 08:32:17 AM  
If the Internet has taught me anything, it's that there are a lot of people who know how to type with nothing useful to say.
 
2013-04-08 08:33:05 AM  

The Envoy: Divinegrace: Every time I meet someone and think "Wow, this person is spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered asshat", I ask them about their faith...every time I have asked I find they are either agnostic or atheist.

I will say this about agnostics and atheists...you folks are consistent.

I'm sure your sample size justifies tarring millions of people with the same brush.


I have meet tens of thousands of people so far, of those about a half a dozen times I have meet someone and was "Wowed" by their spite / hate / self-centered nature...not just a little bit spite/hateful, but WOW level. While I will not list the names of the people who were THAT gawd awful, I could if I had to...each and every one of them.

So I would say the percentage of people I have meet that were excessively spiteful / hateful / self-centered...so much so that I took the time to ask about their 'Faith" would be less than one half of one percent....of that less than one half of one percent, 100% were agnostic or atheist. I hope that clears things up.
 
2013-04-08 08:33:27 AM  

PC LOAD LETTER: bunner: Religion and atheism have a lot in common.  They both like to blowhard false dichotomies between two approaches to life that have, so far, gotten us here.  Carry on.  Fresh poo and incredulous smirks at the popcorn stand.

Oh, DO tell us your well-honed philosophy of life, so that we can be in awe of it's splendor.


"Don't be a dick."  No charge.
 
2013-04-08 08:33:54 AM  

bunner: omnibus_necanda_sunt: Knock it off and be constructive.

Like this?


Asking others to be constructive is constructive. I may have poisoned the well a bit, but I honestly didn't expect you to seriously consider it. Not this early in the morning.
 
2013-04-08 08:34:21 AM  

WhoopAssWayne: [imageshack.us image 399x599]


And avoids GMOs.
 
2013-04-08 08:34:44 AM  

adamatari: log_jammin: adamatari: I think the atheists saying Islam stands out as particularly bad have never read the old testament (go check out the Brick Testament, particularly Judges, anc come back to me), or never read history (nasty wars like the Thirty Years' War, no Muslims involved). Nor do they seem to know the facts on the ground as to who is  really commited to cultural genocide and assimillation of non-believers. There are WAY more Christian and Mormon missionaries than Islamic ones.

The point is that Islam is particular bad NOW, not thousands of years ago.

Tell that to the literally stateless Palestinians, or even the Israeli Arabs whose political parties the other, Jewish parties ganged up on and tried to ban (which would have left the Israeli Arabs effectively disenfrachised - except the Supreme Court of Israel overturned this attempt). Or tell this to those who died in Iraq after a "Christian" president decided to go to war there. Or tell that to gays in Uganda and other African countries. Or, as I said, take a look around NOW and see who is out there undermining every traditional culture with its own values left in the world.

Arguing that Islam is particularly bad among the Abrahamic religions is like arguing the relative terribleness of MRSA, AIDS, and cancer.


What about the stateless palestenians in Jordan?  Can we lay that at the feet of the muslims?

If you are trying to score a "point" against judiasm because of what political parties in Israel tried to do (which is BS), you also have to give them a point for what the Israeli court did for those parties.

What is happening to gays in uganda is bad, but there are dozens of Islamic coutries that are doing worse.
 
2013-04-08 08:34:48 AM  

bunner: omnibus_necanda_sunt: bunner: Religion and atheism have a lot in common.  They both like to blowhard false dichotomies between two approaches to life that have, so far, gotten us here.  Carry on.  Fresh poo and incredulous smirks at the popcorn stand.

Oh, for Christ's sake, all you ever do is mock people who support Democrats, Republicans, or third party candidates; private sector solutions or government ones; religion or irreligion. Just like with Amos, I'm beginning to think all you ever do is complain that the world is shiatty and refuse to offer any goddamned solutions. We got your point in the first dozen threads. Knock it off and be constructive.

To address the balance of your post, my only efforts have been to put forth the idea that, after eons of bumping into the same walls in the same rat maze, that it would, mayhaps, be beneficial to stand back a few feet and see if there is some more useful way to approach the business of living a life wherein one is aware of one's own mortality and yet it is usually spent trying to control the lives of others.  Cause so far, it's sucked fat walrus wang.  If that ain't constructive, I don't know what is..


So... YOLO?
 
2013-04-08 08:34:51 AM  

bunner: omnibus_necanda_sunt: bunner: Religion and atheism have a lot in common.  They both like to blowhard false dichotomies between two approaches to life that have, so far, gotten us here.  Carry on.  Fresh poo and incredulous smirks at the popcorn stand.

Oh, for Christ's sake, all you ever do is mock people who support Democrats, Republicans, or third party candidates; private sector solutions or government ones; religion or irreligion. Just like with Amos, I'm beginning to think all you ever do is complain that the world is shiatty and refuse to offer any goddamned solutions. We got your point in the first dozen threads. Knock it off and be constructive.

To address the balance of your post, my only efforts have been to put forth the idea that, after eons of bumping into the same walls in the same rat maze, that it would, mayhaps, be beneficial to stand back a few feet and see if there is some more useful way to approach the business of living a life wherein one is aware of one's own mortality and yet it is usually spent trying to control the lives of others.  Cause so far, it's sucked fat walrus wang.  If that ain't constructive, I don't know what is..


Christ, this thread moves fast. Sorry about that.
 
2013-04-08 08:35:26 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: I_C_Weener: Wait, maybe I'm just allergic to Islam. Is that ok?

yeah, but I don't think Benadryl is gonna help on that one...


I don't know. It'll knock him out for a couple of hours so he doesn't have deal with Islam.
 
2013-04-08 08:36:16 AM  

omnibus_necanda_sunt: Asking others to be constructive is constructive. I may have poisoned the well a bit, but I honestly didn't expect you to seriously consider it. Not this early in the morning.


So is taking one's own advice.  I've been up all night.  Assumptions.  Humanity's hotshot app.  This is where you keep blowing ME sh*t because "Jesus is stupid."
 
2013-04-08 08:38:48 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Benadryl... is there anything it can't do?


www.moviewatchlist.com

Mo tussin!
 
2013-04-08 08:39:11 AM  

Marcintosh: [cdn.gagbay.com image 460x375]

My view, for what it's worth


Yes, but see...the problem with that is the part of: THEY POST THEIR BELIEFS ON FACEBOOK

When you make a *public* profession (and even if your Fb is set to private, you're still allowing your selected audience to see), that invites return commentary. That is in fact, largely the friggen point of people posting such.

Or to quote Ray Gillette, "I'm sorry, did you want to hear what I think, or just what you want to hear?"

Now someone posts Rainbow Bridge because their cat just died, yeah you're an asshole if you go in...because they're NOT sharing to debate *or* convince others whether or not there's a rainbow bridge, or a heaven, or a heaven where we get to see our dead pets again.

But when you someone says stupid shiat to that person grieving like 'Everything happens for a reason!!!'...yeah I'm likely to take umbridge. When someone toots their own horn because they're PRAYING for the people of Haiti ...I'm likely to point out how farking useless that is, and suggest people do something that involves them actually getting off their farking ass in order to get those warm fuzzies they want.

And sure, many believers dump ALL such thing into the same asshole can. Because that's much easier than defending the asinine shiat that comes out of their mouths. If they weren't lazy, they wouldn't be spouting such shiat, so of course the same folks will take the lazy path there too.

AND it's so farking self centered that people don't even take a second to realize how farking offensive some of it is. Like spamming a page about how your prayer circle helped you get pregnant and it was due to faith blah blah blah...to people who've had miscarriages and fertility problems. Apparently their Jesus picks and chooses? Or they're better people?  Or the farkery of 'everything happens for a reason!!!'

/isn't on facebook anymore, though this isn't why
 
2013-04-08 08:40:34 AM  

omnibus_necanda_sunt: Marcintosh: [cdn.gagbay.com image 460x375]

My view, for what it's worth

So, does being an asshole include pointing out logical inconsistencies that are based on a faith-related issue, or is it only being an asshole if you launch into a prepared diatribe on theodicy, complete with Epicurus macros? Because if someone sincerely believes the Earth is 6,000 years old, I am going to disagree with them, publicly, for as long as it takes until they either accept it, or resort to ad hominem.


Jesus said to turn the other cheek. You are more of a jihad type.

Go fight the good fight. Make friends. Win hearts.
 
xcv
2013-04-08 08:42:06 AM  

RobSeace: ciberido: Perhaps someone who's actually been to an atheist convention would care to comment on how many people there were nonwhite or female?

We have conventions now??


Not what they use to be. Now the major ones mostly serve as a fertile environment for conspiracy theories, science denialism, a forum for airing personal vendettas against other atheists/skeptics and other various agendas that have little to do with atheism/skepticism.
 
2013-04-08 08:42:38 AM  
I could have swore the proper narrative was "Atheists liberals always give Islam (or any other religion) a free pass, and only pick on Christians"

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but in my experience protestant Christians are the worst Islam/Catholic-phobes evar.  They just do their bigoted speeches on Sunday morning within the walls of their church.
 
2013-04-08 08:42:39 AM  

bullsballs: Thanks to atheism, Sadism and living for the moment is AOK!
There is no God, and no need to worry about retribution after you die, as there is no afterlife, no Heaven or hell.
Everything is of man, so you can make your own rules to live and die by as long and you don't harm others and are prepared to live with the consequences.


There, fix by an atheist.
 
2013-04-08 08:45:54 AM  

vactech: I could have swore the proper narrative was "Atheists liberals always give Islam (or any other religion) a free pass, and only pick on Christians"

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but in my experience protestant Christians are the worst Islam/Catholic-phobes evar.  They just do their bigoted speeches on Sunday morning within the walls of their church.


Never heard a minister give a sermon on the evils of Islam or Catholicism. I have read a lot on Fark though. So, the churches you go to must be a lot like Fark
 
2013-04-08 08:48:06 AM  
I know a bit about history and especially about history of religion.

You have to know that our holy books have changed very little since 800. That brings a lot of problems to the table when we read them today as our values have changed for the best. Back in the day, it was seen like the constitution is today, or perhaps the bill of rights. You shall not steal, ect. These were and still are the basis of our laws. Back then, and still now in some countries, this only applies to the people that live under your ruler. So if you are an afghan, "thou shall not kill" applies to your neighbor, not the American soldier.

Religion has always been a force to instill basic values, but now those values have evolved and not everyone in the world has evolved with the western values. You dont hear about women's rights in Pakistan, nor do you hear a debate about rape in Soudan. This is normal and we live in an interesting time in history, as this has changed tremendously in the last 100 years. Old organised religions who has been founded on rock solid foundations of morality find themselves against quick changing christians groups who supports the new morality. In the end, most religious group will put in morality values and stick to them. And to top this off our understanding of the universe and science is leaping forwards at a tremendous rate, this is the golden age of technology. Our views are now mondial.

So if i start a new religion with all of the new values and stick to them as my rock, lets say all of the old testament rules+"do upon others as you wish they do upon you"+declaration of human rights+geneva convention+respect to all of the diversity of human life+protection of the environment and protection and spread of knowledge, well im sure id get a lot of converts. This however, in 100 years might be obsolete, yet as I am standing now I cant think any change to those values would be good change.

What? Respect to all human life, but now we are invaded by 2 groups of aliens one good one evil and we have to kill one to survive? What if the evil aliens have convinced Athiests to follow them? And what is "respect" anyways? Decent burial? "Protection and spread of knowledge only applies to our side, the rest can rot in 2013." Or there could be simply be a single group of aliens that want to be priests.

You see the point? Our values evolve, as we are evolving into better humans. There are still new discoveries and this mondialisation thing might do a lot of harm, but has shown to us that our values and not the same everywhere on earth, as our technology isnt the same either. To become better, and perhaps to show that religion is perhaps an obstolete need of the past, we need to make sure everyone gets it. Bombing them into the stone age isnt the right way to do it, yet, if Cortez didnt wipe out the Atzcan priesthood they might have resisted a God that doesnt allow the ripping of bleeding beating hearts from the chest of victims.

And Cortez was, in my book, a freaking villian.

So what do we do? Go rogue against all religion ( Athiests) seems the path of so many now, yet to say to people 100 years in the past that dont get it because its not god who raises the sun everyday its the earth thats spinning seems a bit off. Perhaps the best solution would be worldwide education, but still some humans are genetically stupid. Also its hard to convince someone that lives in poverty that there ISNT a better world when he dies if he does the right thing. It is so easy to be evil ( act against values, even yours ) when you are starving.
 
2013-04-08 08:52:32 AM  
omnibus_necanda_sunt: bunner: Religion and atheism have a lot in common.  They both like to blowhard false dichotomies between two approaches to life that have, so far, gotten us here.  Carry on.  Fresh poo and incredulous smirks at the popcorn stand.

Oh, for Christ's sake, all you ever do is mock people who support Democrats, Republicans, or third party candidates; private sector solutions or government ones; religion or irreligion. Just like with Amos, I'm beginning to think all you ever do is complain that the world is shiatty and refuse to offer any goddamned solutions. We got your point in the first dozen threads. Knock it off and be constructive.

To address the balance of your post, my only efforts have been to put forth the idea that, after eons of bumping into the same walls in the same rat maze, that it would, mayhaps, be beneficial to stand back a few feet and see if there is some more useful way to approach the business of living a life wherein one is aware of one's own mortality and yet it is usually spent trying to control the lives of others.  Cause so far, it's sucked fat walrus wang.  If that ain't constructive, I don't know what is..


Humans are hierarchical animals. When placed under stress, or even simply given a task, a leader figure usually emerges. Your issue is that said figures that emerge very rarely best meet the qualifications for solving the problem at hand and directing the energies of others toward doing so. In fact, they create (via imagination or physical artifice) additional problems so as to maintain their authority.

This is all true, no?

The cycle of virtue-indolence-evil-ruin-rebirth-virtue is as predictable and ineluctable as the tides. You seek to break the cycle, rather than ride it. You can no more break the cycle than make y=sin(x) exceed 1.

I supposed I asked you a trick question. There is nothing constructive to do, in your definition of constructive; not anything that the average private individual could realistically expect to do without relying a great deal on luck, and even then it would only roil and shift the cycle, not break it.

Society, the Game of Life, if you will, can tolerate all manner of cheating and dickery. The one thing society doesn't tolerate is not playing the Game at all, because then that makes them question why they are playing, either. That's uncomfortable.

I reverse my previous criticisms. You are a brave individual. My initial reaction shows what you are up against.

te saluto, pie vagans.
 
2013-04-08 08:55:01 AM  

Lorelle: OK, so I hate Catholicism a little bit more than other religions, but that's because I had it shoved down my throat for the first 17 years of my life.


Not only that, the priests also talked to you about Catholicism!
 
2013-04-08 08:55:09 AM  
I have the same problem with Islam that I have with any other religion, and that's when they try to codify their religious beliefs into law to force them on others. Christianity used to be absolutely horrible about that as well, but most of the western world has moved on to more secular governments where freedom of thought is protected. Not so much in Islamic nations. There are a shiatload of Muslim countries out there where Sharia law is the law of the land. Not to mention the attempts, such as the whole Danish cartoon incident, where they attempt to force the rest of the WORLD to act within the confines of their beliefs.
 
2013-04-08 08:56:59 AM  

Lonestar: So what do we do? Go rogue against all religion ( Athiests) seems the path of so many now


I need to point out something REALLY important to you. I am not an atheist because religion is 'bad'. I am an atheist because religion (all of them) aren't true. I remain open to evidence, but I am also very skeptical that any will ever be produced. I don't think there's any god/s, just as I don't think there are any unicorns, or that homeopathy does what it claims.

Now, I happen to think that religion overall, IS bad...but that has nothing to do with my atheism. If it could be demonstrated to me that there was a religion we could indeed call 'good' in every respect (hypothetically let's make it airtight) I would then agree that it is 'good', but I would not agree that it is true. I could not magically have belief simply because it was good. It would have to be something I felt was demonstrated to be true.

I spoke only for myself, but you'll find that's also most atheists. I've never met a one who was an atheist purely because they thought all religion was bad. And I know of more than a few atheists who think religion might actually be a good idea. I'm open to the latter, and as such have been keeping abreast of Dan Dennett's research in this area.

Anyhoo, important point I think. Very important.
 
2013-04-08 08:59:01 AM  

Lady Indica: Now, I happen to think that religion overall, IS bad...but that has nothing to do with my atheism. If it could be demonstrated to me that there was a religion we could indeed call 'good' in every respect (hypothetically let's make it airtight) I would then agree that it is 'good'


It is tough to find a bone to pick with Jainism...
 
2013-04-08 08:59:09 AM  

omnibus_necanda_sunt: Humans are hierarchical animals. When placed under stress, or even simply given a task, a leader figure usually emerges.


And boy can we pick them!

omnibus_necanda_sunt: Society, the Game of Life, if you will, can tolerate all manner of cheating and dickery. The one thing society doesn't tolerate is not playing the Game at all, because then that makes them question why they are playing, either. That's uncomfortable.


Finding out that you're just supporting user application error should be.

omnibus_necanda_sunt: You are a brave individual.


More like bone weary.

I don't speak Lain.   :  )

Carry on.
 
2013-04-08 08:59:42 AM  

Lonestar: And Cortez was, in my book, a freaking villian.


Meant to add in my original, I totally agree with you there.
 
2013-04-08 09:01:08 AM  

I_C_Weener: vactech: I could have swore the proper narrative was "Atheists liberals always give Islam (or any other religion) a free pass, and only pick on Christians"

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but in my experience protestant Christians are the worst Islam/Catholic-phobes evar.  They just do their bigoted speeches on Sunday morning within the walls of their church.

Never heard a minister give a sermon on the evils of Islam or Catholicism. I have read a lot on Fark though. So, the churches you go to must be a lot like Fark


It's true.  Religions don't like each other.  It's very tribal.
 
2013-04-08 09:03:15 AM  

bunner: PC LOAD LETTER: bunner: Religion and atheism have a lot in common.  They both like to blowhard false dichotomies between two approaches to life that have, so far, gotten us here.  Carry on.  Fresh poo and incredulous smirks at the popcorn stand.

Oh, DO tell us your well-honed philosophy of life, so that we can be in awe of it's splendor.

"Don't be a dick."  No charge.


So, you are an atheist then?
 
2013-04-08 09:03:36 AM  

liam76: Jainism


Santhara. Though one might argue that a person is only self harming, I do not think one could claim because it only harms themselves it's not 'bad'.

But I no, I wouldn't be worried about them harming me due to their beliefs.
 
2013-04-08 09:05:02 AM  

Lonestar: What? Respect to all human life, but now we are invaded by 2 groups of aliens one good one evil and we have to kill one to survive? What if the evil aliens have convinced Athiests to follow them? And what is "respect" anyways? Decent burial? "Protection and spread of knowledge only applies to our side, the rest can rot in 2013." Or there could be simply be a single group of aliens that want to be priests.


What in the name of Jupiter's cock are you ranting  about?

I've seen cats walking across keyboards make more coherent posts.
 
2013-04-08 09:06:23 AM  
FTA: "If you are attempting to eradicate religion oneNew York Times bestseller at a time, like Harris and Dawkins are, maybe it makes sense to go after what you perceive as the "worst" belief system first, then the next-worst, and so on, until the only faith left in the world is a pacifist combo of Unitarianism and Jainism."

I'm unitarian, and I'm totally getting a kick out of this. I'm also always keen to hear from the atheists as to whether they can find any moral or intellectual objection to my "religion" 's principles, writings or social activities. They never do.

/smugger than thou.
 
2013-04-08 09:07:35 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: omnibus_necanda_sunt: Marcintosh: [cdn.gagbay.com image 460x375]

My view, for what it's worth

So, does being an asshole include pointing out logical inconsistencies that are based on a faith-related issue, or is it only being an asshole if you launch into a prepared diatribe on theodicy, complete with Epicurus macros? Because if someone sincerely believes the Earth is 6,000 years old, I am going to disagree with them, publicly, for as long as it takes until they either accept it, or resort to ad hominem.

only if you beat a dead whore... oh wait, horse... though I suppose if you beat a dead whore that would just make you a really sick person.


sidesalad.net

I'm with you boys
 
2013-04-08 09:08:42 AM  

I_C_Weener: Never heard a minister give a sermon on the evils of Islam


I can honestly say i haven't been to church since before 2001, so i know not what is being said within the walls of them, but i can tell you it wasn't atheists who were protesting the "ground zero" mosque. It wasn't atheists who said God allowed 9/11 to happen because we let gay people live together. It wasn't an atheist who killed six sikh congregants mistaking them for muslims...

And more anecdotal, the loudest people who speak out against islam in my family and at my work aren't atheists either...
 
2013-04-08 09:09:13 AM  

PC LOAD LETTER: bunner: PC LOAD LETTER: bunner: Religion and atheism have a lot in common.  They both like to blowhard false dichotomies between two approaches to life that have, so far, gotten us here.  Carry on.  Fresh poo and incredulous smirks at the popcorn stand.

Oh, DO tell us your well-honed philosophy of life, so that we can be in awe of it's splendor.

"Don't be a dick."  No charge.

So, you are an atheist then?


I firmly believe in making damn sure I have some sort of patch on my sleeve that will appease whoever is asking.
 
2013-04-08 09:09:38 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Seriously, I agree.... I just love it when Jesus said "verily I say unto thee, if thy neighbor sucks, thou shalt kill him" or when he said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone... that's right biatches that is me..." then whacked that ho... or better, when he said "Turn the other cheek, cause i'm gonna pimp slap that one too!" Classic... oh wait, I mean the opposite of that,


How about when Jesus said that apostates were to be burned on the fire? Does that count?

i560.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-08 09:10:28 AM  

Lorelle: That's not true. I despise all religions equally.

OK, so I hate Catholicism a little bit more than other religions, but that's because I had it shoved down my throat for the first 17 years of my life.


There's some dispute as to who said it, but that reminded me of this quote:

The trouble with some of us is that we have been inoculated with small doses of Christianity which keep us from catching the real thing.
 
2013-04-08 09:11:15 AM  

Lady Indica: Lonestar: So what do we do? Go rogue against all religion ( Athiests) seems the path of so many now

I need to point out something REALLY important to you. I am not an atheist because religion is 'bad'. I am an atheist because religion (all of them) aren't true. I remain open to evidence, but I am also very skeptical that any will ever be produced. I don't think there's any god/s, just as I don't think there are any unicorns, or that homeopathy does what it claims.

Now, I happen to think that religion overall, IS bad...but that has nothing to do with my atheism. If it could be demonstrated to me that there was a religion we could indeed call 'good' in every respect (hypothetically let's make it airtight) I would then agree that it is 'good', but I would not agree that it is true. I could not magically have belief simply because it was good. It would have to be something I felt was demonstrated to be true.

I spoke only for myself, but you'll find that's also most atheists. I've never met a one who was an atheist purely because they thought all religion was bad. And I know of more than a few atheists who think religion might actually be a good idea. I'm open to the latter, and as such have been keeping abreast of Dan Dennett's research in this area.

Anyhoo, important point I think. Very important.


I think you didnt understand the point: what we view "good" is because of our values, and since our values have changed ( for the better ) in the last 100 years this has brought up lots of interesting concept. You could read my whole post as a "why im an Athiest", but it wouldnt be right, as it more of a thought experiment.

Now for my real views on religion right now, and this might change.
I believe in my values right now, and they may evolve over time. If a religion ( a group ) would exist to convert people to my present values, Id follow it. Wouldnt believe in a deity. However there might be such a group in the future but they would stay on the solidity of their core values, even if the western values evolve. Perhaps in 100 years we will find it inhuman to let women give birth in such a painful manner, so ban sex.

Ill be 140 then, so id be ok with that.
 
2013-04-08 09:14:05 AM  

propasaurus: That's fascinating. Do tell me how much you Christians love Islam.


It usually goes like this:

Atheist says something critical against Christianity.
Christians say "Well, you don't have the guts to say those things against the ebil Muslims."
Atheist then says something critical against Islam.
Christians say "ZOMG ISLAMOPHOBE!"
 
2013-04-08 09:16:07 AM  

Relatively Obscure: What I'm wondering, though, is what atheism puts in place of that morality and framework that religions provide.


Birth control, for starters.  It does more to alleviate human suffering than all pious platitudes ever brought down the mountain.
 
2013-04-08 09:16:42 AM  

Gunther: Lonestar: What? Respect to all human life, but now we are invaded by 2 groups of aliens one good one evil and we have to kill one to survive? What if the evil aliens have convinced Athiests to follow them? And what is "respect" anyways? Decent burial? "Protection and spread of knowledge only applies to our side, the rest can rot in 2013." Or there could be simply be a single group of aliens that want to be priests.

What in the name of Jupiter's cock are you ranting  about?

I've seen cats walking across keyboards make more coherent posts.


Ahh the internet, full of people that want to read only a few lines of text and figure out what the other guy means. If its not in the established brackets its too complicated.

One thought I was defending religion, I wasnt.
I wasnt cheering for Atheism either.

Read the whole post, use and free your mind. Or you will ( or perhaps you are ) caught up by some preacher.
 
2013-04-08 09:16:46 AM  
any time you try and justify an unjustifiable action by saying, "god told me to do it" is evil.  Regardless of which specific cult it is.
 
2013-04-08 09:17:26 AM  
I find funny how atheism, which used to be "does not believe in deities" is now believed to mean "hate religion".

Pretty sad from a group that declares itself superior.

But hey, it makes most believe that they are the "cool" ones.


/does not consider myself part of either "sides"
 
2013-04-08 09:18:18 AM  

liam76: BgJonson79: Lusiphur: Can you be considered an "islamaphobe" if you simply hate religion? Wouldn't that just be a religiophobe?

All religiophobes would be islamaphobes like they'd be judeophobes as well. Bigotry is still bigotry.

Bigotry would require you to hate all practioners of the religion.

You can hate the religion and not all practioners.


How is that different than saying, "I hate the race but not the people of it?"
 
2013-04-08 09:18:26 AM  
Atheism is Religiphobia.
 
2013-04-08 09:20:24 AM  
dfxdeimos: Ah, another hyperbole bound apologist that refuses to recognize the special dangers presented by an ideology that represents itself as the final and unalterable truth.

Which is different from any other religion ... how, exactly?

When hundreds of millions Muslims believe that the punishment for leaving Islam should be death - that is a problem.
When hundreds of millions Muslims believe that the punishment for adultery should be stoning - that is a problem.
When hundreds of millions Muslims believe that the punishment for theft or robbery should involve whippings or cutting off the hands of the accused - that is a problem.


Have you asked hundreds of millions muslims about this? ...Or did you just watch Fox News a lot? You sound teabagger.

And these aren't punishments that are isolated to one sect, or cultural sub-group, or came out of nowhere - these are all things that are mandated by the Quran.

The NT mandates burning apostates (see my prev post, the one with the pic).

But I am sure that you would find a similar number of Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs, and Hindus that would say the same thing, right? Get farking real.

Here's the fun thing about religion:


It doesn't matter what the actual scriptures say.


People will interpret them any way they want and use them as an excuse to do whatever they want. Zeitgeist is far more important than the words. For instance, the gas bombers in Tokyo were buddhists. Hindus frequently attack muslims and christians -- and you know how women are treated in that part of the world, right? Christian Europe used to be a lot like present day Iran, and would still be like that if we secularists hadn't neutered christianity in the 1700s. You might also look into the way christians have traditionally treated jews and other heathens up until the years 1945-48.
 
2013-04-08 09:22:45 AM  

Lonestar: Ahh the internet, full of people that want to read only a few lines of text and figure out what the other guy means. If its not in the established brackets its too complicated.


 If you often find people are failing to understand you, perhaps you should learn to communicate more effectively.

I've read through that post three times now, and I still have no idea WTF you are talking about.
 
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