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(Vice)   What do you mean we atheists are Islamophobe hatemongers? That's ridi... well, that's actually pretty spot-on   (vice.com) divider line 724
    More: Sad, new atheists, Islamophobia, The God Delusion, Islamist terrorists, Thomas Aquinas, God Is Not Great, Islamic fundamentalism, atheists  
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14314 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Apr 2013 at 5:39 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-08 07:31:23 AM

Divinegrace: Every time I meet someone and think "Wow, this person is spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered asshat", I ask them about their faith...every time I have asked I find they are either agnostic or atheist.


Sounds 100% legit.
 
2013-04-08 07:31:45 AM
Totally didn't read the article, and am running out the door....but I just wanted to poke my head into an interesting looking thread and say....


I really, really wish 'athiests' would actually coorectly identify themselves and stop giving a bad rap to the 99% of athiests that are actually atheist and NOT flaming assclowns.

<--- Gnostic Theist

<---- hates organized religion
<---- prefers not to talk about it
 
2013-04-08 07:32:03 AM

Uncle Tractor: dfxdeimos: Islam deserves to be singled out, as it represents a much greater threat to the core tenets of western civilization than any other religion / group that exists today.

The GOP bible-thumpers say hi.

 It isn't just the fringe either - mainstream Islam is the problem. When upwards of 75% of the people in large, populous Muslim countries believe that the punishment for leaving Islam should be death - that is a problem.

In  some large, populous muslim countries. In others, not so much.

I wish more in the west would stop being apologists and start calling out these people for the danger their beliefs present.

Most muslims are nothing like the fire-breathing boogy-men the far right are trying to make them out to be. Islam is just another stupid religion. One of many. Yes, islam has the potential for violence, but so does any other religion. No exceptions.

/have I been trolled?


Seriously, I agree.... I just love it when Jesus said "verily I say unto thee, if thy neighbor sucks, thou shalt kill him" or when he said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone... that's right biatches that is me..." then whacked that ho... or better, when he said "Turn the other cheek, cause i'm gonna pimp slap that one too!" Classic... oh wait, I mean the opposite of that,
 
2013-04-08 07:32:40 AM

Biological Ali: Divinegrace: Every time I meet someone and think "Wow, this person is spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered asshat", I ask them about their faith...every time I have asked I find they are either agnostic or atheist.

I will say this about agnostics and atheists...you folks are consistent.

Have you considered the possibility that you're the only asshole involved here? You know - Occam's Razor and all that.


Handle is "Divinegrace", and the only bad people they meet happen to be agnostic or atheist. Pretty clear that's what's going on.
 
2013-04-08 07:34:36 AM

Divinegrace: Every time I meet someone and think "Wow, this person is spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered asshat", I ask them about their faith...every time I have asked I find they are either agnostic or atheist.

I will say this about agnostics and atheists...you folks are consistent.


you live in kansas city? yeah, that never happened.

/bet you live in Johnson County too.
 
2013-04-08 07:36:51 AM
I think the atheists saying Islam stands out as particularly bad have never read the old testament (go check out the Brick Testament, particularly Judges, anc come back to me), or never read history (nasty wars like the Thirty Years' War, no Muslims involved). Nor do they seem to know the facts on the ground as to who is  really commited to cultural genocide and assimillation of non-believers. There are WAY more Christian and Mormon missionaries than Islamic ones.
 
2013-04-08 07:37:00 AM

xria: rikkards: Relatively Obscure: What I'm wondering, though, is what atheism puts in place of that morality and framework that religions provide.

Oh, this shiat again.

The proper answer would be "personal responsibility to society norms".

Also it is hard to see how anyone with a belief in an eternally happy afterlife for good people, and hell for bad people is really "moral" - they are just being selfish on a longer time frame.


mor·al /ˈmôrəl/
Adjective
Concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.

Noun
A lesson, esp. one concerning what is right or prudent, that can be derived from a story, a piece of information, or an experience.


Well, that should explain it... reward for good people, punishment for bad ones. Sounds like it fits the accepted definition of "moral" to me.
 
2013-04-08 07:37:55 AM

mekki: I am sorry, what was that you said about science being a passive kitten? I couldn't hear you over this atomic bomb that science has developed.


"Science" led to the creation on the bomb, much like it led to the creation of commercial aircraft. What "science" didn't do, however, was cause anybody to actually use these things to inflict pointless death and suffering.
 
2013-04-08 07:37:55 AM

cman: propasaurus: That's fascinating. Do tell me how much you Christians love Islam.

The writer of the article is atheist

This is an atheist biatching about bigotry


I honestly couldn't make it halfway through the article. The amount of self loathing of this man is disgusting. He spends almost every paragraph hating that fact that he is atheist.  All right, we get it, your a closet Christian, get a room already.
 
2013-04-08 07:38:05 AM

Gunther: OK, I've just spent the last 20 minutes reading all of the articles and such he links to, and as far as I can tell, his problem isn't that all atheists are Islamophobes, it's that one atheist  (Sam Harris) has said some inflammatory stuff about Islam that was taken out of context by someone else to make it sound like he was bigoted.

Big. Farking. Deal. Even if he was a bigot, why the hell would one bigoted atheist somehow mean the whole movement had a problem with Islam? Is Sam Harris the atheist pope now?


This.

If you are an atheist you are going to have a problem when a religion commands people to do stupid things.  Fundamentalists are much more likely to do stupid things, and fundamentalism is a cornerstone of Islam.
 
2013-04-08 07:38:17 AM
static.giantbomb.com
 
2013-04-08 07:40:12 AM

adamatari: I think the atheists saying Islam stands out as particularly bad have never read the old testament (go check out the Brick Testament, particularly Judges, anc come back to me), or never read history (nasty wars like the Thirty Years' War, no Muslims involved). Nor do they seem to know the facts on the ground as to who is  really commited to cultural genocide and assimillation of non-believers. There are WAY more Christian and Mormon missionaries than Islamic ones.


you do know that Christians follow the teachings of Christ, not Judaism, right?
(old vs new testament)
 
2013-04-08 07:41:11 AM

Divinegrace: Every time I meet someone and think "Wow, this person is spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered asshat", I ask them about their faith...every time I have asked I find they are either agnostic or atheist.

I will say this about agnostics and atheists...you folks are consistent.


Wow, you don't sound like a judgemental asshole at all. I can't imagine why nonbelievers wouldn't get on with you.

Also; you have a problem with agnostics? Seriously? That's like hating vanilla. Or the color beige. Or Canadians. They're just kinda bland and inoffensive.
 
2013-04-08 07:41:56 AM

adamatari: I think the atheists saying Islam stands out as particularly bad have never read the old testament (go check out the Brick Testament, particularly Judges, anc come back to me), or never read history (nasty wars like the Thirty Years' War, no Muslims involved). Nor do they seem to know the facts on the ground as to who is  really commited to cultural genocide and assimillation of non-believers. There are WAY more Christian and Mormon missionaries than Islamic ones.


The point is that Islam is particular bad NOW, not thousands of years ago.
 
2013-04-08 07:43:14 AM

log_jammin: mekki: I am sorry, what was that you said about science being a passive kitten? I couldn't hear you over this atomic bomb that science has developed.

Science: 1, religion: a whole farking lot more.


Well, religion had a head start. There was only so much you could have done with a stone and a slingshot unless your name was David. But science is catching up pretty well.

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-08 07:44:27 AM

Gunther: Divinegrace: Every time I meet someone and think "Wow, this person is spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered asshat", I ask them about their faith...every time I have asked I find they are either agnostic or atheist.

I will say this about agnostics and atheists...you folks are consistent.

Wow, you don't sound like a judgemental asshole at all. I can't imagine why nonbelievers wouldn't get on with you.

Also; you have a problem with agnostics? Seriously? That's like hating vanilla. Or the color beige. Or Canadians. They're just kinda bland and inoffensive.


yeah, well screw you and your "Desert Sand" beige colors

:P
 
2013-04-08 07:44:54 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Biological Ali: Divinegrace: Every time I meet someone and think "Wow, this person is spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered asshat", I ask them about their faith...every time I have asked I find they are either agnostic or atheist.

I will say this about agnostics and atheists...you folks are consistent.

Have you considered the possibility that you're the only asshole involved here? You know - Occam's Razor and all that.

Handle is "Divinegrace", and the only bad people they meet happen to be agnostic or atheist. Pretty clear that's what's going on.


I did NOT say the only BAD people I meet are agnostic or atheist (most of the 'BAD" people I have meet are strangely enough Catholics...not to say I haven't meet some fine Catholics because there are many good/great people out there who are).

What I DID say was that  spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered people I meet have turned out to be agnostic or atheists. There is a HUGE difference between people who are spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered...and someone who is genuinely "BAD", but I wouldn't expect someone like you to understand the difference, and forgive you for your misunderstanding.
 
2013-04-08 07:45:45 AM

log_jammin: adamatari: I think the atheists saying Islam stands out as particularly bad have never read the old testament (go check out the Brick Testament, particularly Judges, anc come back to me), or never read history (nasty wars like the Thirty Years' War, no Muslims involved). Nor do they seem to know the facts on the ground as to who is  really commited to cultural genocide and assimillation of non-believers. There are WAY more Christian and Mormon missionaries than Islamic ones.

The point is that Islam is particular bad NOW, not thousands of years ago.


that is true... they have mellowed a bit, now they only blow things up and cut off a few dozen heads a year now unlike the thousands they did a couple thousand years ago.
 
2013-04-08 07:47:42 AM

mekki: log_jammin: mekki: I am sorry, what was that you said about science being a passive kitten? I couldn't hear you over this atomic bomb that science has developed.

Science: 1, religion: a whole farking lot more.

Well, religion had a head start. There was only so much you could have done with a stone and a slingshot unless your name was David. But science is catching up pretty well.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x335]


that pic made me think of this tune...  NSFW
 
2013-04-08 07:47:49 AM

Uncle Tractor: dfxdeimos: Islam deserves to be singled out, as it represents a much greater threat to the core tenets of western civilization than any other religion / group that exists today.

The GOP bible-thumpers say hi.

 It isn't just the fringe either - mainstream Islam is the problem. When upwards of 75% of the people in large, populous Muslim countries believe that the punishment for leaving Islam should be death - that is a problem.

In  some large, populous muslim countries. In others, not so much.

I wish more in the west would stop being apologists and start calling out these people for the danger their beliefs present.

Most muslims are nothing like the fire-breathing boogy-men the far right are trying to make them out to be. Islam is just another stupid religion. One of many. Yes, islam has the potential for violence, but so does any other religion. No exceptions.

/have I been trolled?


Ah, another hyperbole bound apologist that refuses to recognize the special dangers presented by an ideology that represents itself as the final and unalterable truth.

When hundreds of millions Muslims believe that the punishment for leaving Islam should be death - that is a problem.
When hundreds of millions Muslims believe that the punishment for adultery should be stoning - that is a problem.
When hundreds of millions Muslims believe that the punishment for theft or robbery should involve whippings or cutting off the hands of the accused - that is a problem.

And these aren't punishments that are isolated to one sect, or cultural sub-group, or came out of nowhere - these are all things that are mandated by the Quran.

But I am sure that you would find a similar number of Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs, and Hindus that would say the same thing, right? Get farking real.
 
2013-04-08 07:49:51 AM

dfxdeimos: Ah, another hyperbole bound apologist that refuses to recognize the special dangers presented by an ideology that represents itself as the final and unalterable truth.

When hundreds of millions Muslims believe that the punishment for leaving Islam should be death - that is a problem.
When hundreds of millions Muslims believe that the punishment for adultery should be stoning - that is a problem.
When hundreds of millions Muslims believe that the punishment for theft or robbery should involve whippings or cutting off the hands of the accused - that is a problem.

And these aren't punishments that are isolated to one sect, or cultural sub-group, or came out of nowhere - these are all things that are mandated by the Quran.

But I am sure that you would find a similar number of Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs, and Hindus that would say the same thing, right? Get farking real.


I was gonna say something about the stoning but then realized it wasn't the nice kind i was thinking of...
 
2013-04-08 07:50:53 AM

Doktor_Zhivago: Some atheists are retards.  Luckily they are unique among the various sub-groupings of humanity.


Thank you, came here to say something similar.

99% of us atheists like 99% of the religious couldn't give a flying fark what the other is doing.  In all sub-groupings of humanity, the outspoken ones usually have extreme views and tend to be the ones we like to biatch about.
 
2013-04-08 07:52:09 AM

Divinegrace: HotWingConspiracy: Biological Ali: Divinegrace: Every time I meet someone and think "Wow, this person is spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered asshat", I ask them about their faith...every time I have asked I find they are either agnostic or atheist.

I will say this about agnostics and atheists...you folks are consistent.

Have you considered the possibility that you're the only asshole involved here? You know - Occam's Razor and all that.

Handle is "Divinegrace", and the only bad people they meet happen to be agnostic or atheist. Pretty clear that's what's going on.

I did NOT say the only BAD people I meet are agnostic or atheist (most of the 'BAD" people I have meet are strangely enough Catholics...not to say I haven't meet some fine Catholics because there are many good/great people out there who are).

What I DID say was that  spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered people I meet have turned out to be agnostic or atheists. There is a HUGE difference between people who are spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered...and someone who is genuinely "BAD", but I wouldn't expect someone like you to understand the difference, and forgive you for your misunderstanding.


Yes, I'm calling you a liar. Liar.

Go pray on it.
 
2013-04-08 07:52:55 AM

adamatari: I think the atheists saying Islam stands out as particularly bad have never read the old testament (go check out the Brick Testament, particularly Judges, anc come back to me), or never read history (nasty wars like the Thirty Years' War, no Muslims involved). Nor do they seem to know the facts on the ground as to who is  really commited to cultural genocide and assimillation of non-believers. There are WAY more Christian and Mormon missionaries than Islamic ones.


Maybe you're the dumbass who needs to read a history book.

1. The Old Testament is part of Islam. Christians do not necessarily have to follow the laws found therein.
2. The Muslims have fought plenty of wars themselves. Go ask the Hindus how nice the Mughals were to them (Hint: They weren't). Or, if you want to see inter-communal violence between Muslims, just head on down to Syria. More importantly, Muhammad himself waged plenty of wars against non-believers and there are sections of the Quran that are all about when its okay to fight wars, which is more often than the 'official' Christian doctrine would be. Obviously, the Europeans have done some horrible shiat, but unlike Islam, none of that could be supported by the New Testament.
3. The missionaries don't force anyone to convert. You know who does? The men who kidnap girls from non-Muslim minorities in Muslim countries, force them to convert to Islam, marry them, and then receive protection from the authorities. Hell, the official Islamic policy on marriage is that men can marry non-Muslim women but Muslim women must stick to Muslim men only, specifically to make sure people are converting towards. And don't get me started on the jizya, a tax that existed solely to put enough of a financial strain on minorities that they'd convert just to get rid of it. Don't forget that the Quran can only be truly understood if you read Arabic as well. Islam perfected cultural genocide before there was a word for it.
 
2013-04-08 07:53:17 AM
Fundamentalists of all beliefs whether religious or otherwise are evil.
 
2013-04-08 07:54:01 AM
Divinegrace:

I did NOT say the only BAD people I meet are agnostic or atheist (most of the 'BAD" people I have meet are strangely enough Catholics...not to say I haven't meet some fine Catholics because there are many good/great people out there who are).

What I DID say was that  spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered people I meet have turned out to be agnostic or atheists. There is a HUGE difference between people who are spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered...and someone who is genuinely "BAD", but I wouldn't expect someone like you to understand the difference, and forgive you for your misunderstanding.


Oh wow.
 
2013-04-08 07:54:21 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Divinegrace: HotWingConspiracy: Biological Ali: Divinegrace: Every time I meet someone and think "Wow, this person is spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered asshat", I ask them about their faith...every time I have asked I find they are either agnostic or atheist.

I will say this about agnostics and atheists...you folks are consistent.

Have you considered the possibility that you're the only asshole involved here? You know - Occam's Razor and all that.

Handle is "Divinegrace", and the only bad people they meet happen to be agnostic or atheist. Pretty clear that's what's going on.

I did NOT say the only BAD people I meet are agnostic or atheist (most of the 'BAD" people I have meet are strangely enough Catholics...not to say I haven't meet some fine Catholics because there are many good/great people out there who are).

What I DID say was that  spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered people I meet have turned out to be agnostic or atheists. There is a HUGE difference between people who are spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered...and someone who is genuinely "BAD", but I wouldn't expect someone like you to understand the difference, and forgive you for your misunderstanding.

Yes, I'm calling you a liar. Liar.

Go pray on it.


helian.net
 
2013-04-08 07:54:41 AM

muck1969: The author is not a very good atheist if he does not understand why an atheist should behave morally or ethically without the constructs an organized religion would provide a person. With or without religious frameworks, and barring any crippling brain or psychological trauma, one determines right and wrong through a combination of experience, instruction and thoughtful consideration, and may be subjected to correction by social interaction or norms.  And even if one has well-developed, socially acceptable sense of right and wrong, it's no guarantee that person won't, in a moment of weakness, act like a douche.  Even Jesus debated with the elders of the church (friggin' uppity peasant know-it-all. who does he think he is? the son of God?).


Actually, what the author was saying there is basically that Atheism says:

Root of all Evil = Religion

but

Root of all Good = ???

He's not questioning how a person can be good without the guidance of religion, because it's already established that people can be good without religion, he is asking for atheism to define where that comes from...

Based on what my philosophy class discussed in college, good comes out of fear of punishment of society...

Basically coming from a parable of a hypothetical village during the dawn of civilization:
Before law was invented, the general rule in the village was a basic form of "might makes right" and the strongest villager simply took what he wanted without regard to other villagers feelings. One day the other villagers got together and after determining that they had enough oppression from the stronger, they joined forces and sought restitution because many are stronger than one. After the combined forces of the weak overthrew the strongest, they laid the ground works for the first Laws and Punishments for breaking the Laws. Therefore a person who follows the law is deemed a good person, and those who break it are considered evil...

I'm not sure which philosopher it was that held this view... but it basically comes down to ear of reprisal is the biggest motivation for people acting "good"... Religion just perfected the reprisal to also include punishment beyond death... because you can only threaten death for so long before someone crazy enough will come along and not fear death for their actions, so someone had to come up with an excuse to punish people beyond death...
 
2013-04-08 07:55:32 AM

mekki: log_jammin: mekki: I am sorry, what was that you said about science being a passive kitten? I couldn't hear you over this atomic bomb that science has developed.

Science: 1, religion: a whole farking lot more.

Well, religion had a head start. There was only so much you could have done with a stone and a slingshot unless your name was David. But science is catching up pretty well.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x335]


Science is still entirely passive, it makes no demands or prescriptions for violence. Some holy texts are quite detailed on who should be killed and why.
 
2013-04-08 07:56:53 AM

Gunther: Divinegrace:

I did NOT say the only BAD people I meet are agnostic or atheist (most of the 'BAD" people I have meet are strangely enough Catholics...not to say I haven't meet some fine Catholics because there are many good/great people out there who are).

What I DID say was that  spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered people I meet have turned out to be agnostic or atheists. There is a HUGE difference between people who are spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered...and someone who is genuinely "BAD", but I wouldn't expect someone like you to understand the difference, and forgive you for your misunderstanding.

Oh wow.


Yeah can you believe that people don't get along with this divinely graceful person? They're simply filled with love.
 
2013-04-08 08:00:31 AM

ciberido: The Snow Dog: FTA: " Like a lot of atheists, I read a bunch of books about atheism and the shortcomings of religion and smirked at the inconsistencies contained in the Bible and Christianity's other texts." [The books arguing against Christianity were] "stuff written by men-almost always men, almost always white men, not that that matters."

Wait, whatnow? Maybe that's because you're white. If you were an atheist born in Cairo or Calcutta or Peking your statement would probably not hold true.


Maybe.  Has anybody ever done a study showing what percentage of published atheists are white, what percentage are male, and how that compares to, say, all published authors?

It does kind of seem like most "movement atheists" who blog (or write books, or tweet) in English about being atheist are white males, but I'm not aware of any hard statistics that back up that perception.

Perhaps someone who's actually been to an atheist convention would care to comment on how many people there were nonwhite or female?


My point is that as people from a majority white English speaking male dominated culture, books read by white English speakers of that same male dominated culture are likely to have been written by white English speaking males. So? This says nothing about atheists worldwide, just about those in this culture. The author offers no claims that he's even tried to read any Chinese texts on athiesm. Maybe there aren't any. Maybe all the Chinese texts are just translations of white male athiests. I don't know.

But his argument seems to be demonizing white men as the archetypical Islamophobic athiests because white males mainly wrote what he's read. If I were from Iceland and all the rapists I ever met were Icelanders that doesn't mean I'd go around saying all the world's rapists are from Iceland.
 
2013-04-08 08:01:38 AM
Once the rest of the world wakes up, this thread will go full retard.

/Never go full retard.
 
2013-04-08 08:02:54 AM

Lusiphur: Can you be considered an "islamaphobe" if you simply hate religion? Wouldn't that just be a religiophobe?


All religiophobes would be islamaphobes like they'd be judeophobes as well. Bigotry is still bigotry.
 
2013-04-08 08:04:03 AM

mekki: There was only so much you could have done with a stone and a slingshot unless your name was David.



Or Joerg.
 
2013-04-08 08:05:03 AM

doglover: mekki: There was only so much you could have done with a stone and a slingshot unless your name was David.


Or Joerg.


or Hercules
 
2013-04-08 08:05:46 AM

Divinegrace: Every time I meet someone and think "Wow, this person is spiteful, hateful, and/or self-centered asshat", I ask them about their faith...every time I have asked I find they are either agnostic or atheist.

I will say this about agnostics and atheists...you folks are consistent.


I'm sure your sample size justifies tarring millions of people with the same brush.
 
2013-04-08 08:06:51 AM

BgJonson79: Lusiphur: Can you be considered an "islamaphobe" if you simply hate religion? Wouldn't that just be a religiophobe?

All religiophobes would be islamaphobes like they'd be judeophobes as well. Bigotry is still bigotry.


Bigotry would require you to hate all practioners of the religion.

You can hate the religion and not all practioners.
 
2013-04-08 08:07:38 AM
Hey, at least we atheists aren't using our stance to uphold blatant human rights abuses and aparteid. You know, like every religion ever has done and fought for whenever it has had a say.
 
2013-04-08 08:10:43 AM

lumiere: Okay, I'll bite. I'm curious to know what makes people think the vagina is feared and repulsed in Islam. I'm sincerely curious if you don't mind elaborating on that.


msnbcmedia.msn.com


4.bp.blogspot.com

theycallmejane.files.wordpress.com

Or maybe this
Or this
Or this
Or this

The problem wasn't trying to find examples, the problem was narrowing it down.


BTW, if the dominionists get their way in the US, it won't be much different here. So I am an equal opportunity Theocracy hater.
 
2013-04-08 08:11:38 AM
(UK) BBC1 TV tonight
Panorama (a well respected TC documentary/current affairs program) investigates sharia law centers, in the UK. where women are instructed to stay in abusive and violent relationships because - hey it's the (sharia) law

Some aspects of Islam are an abomination - I say that, not as an atheist, but as a thinking, feeling human being.

Other people - who have a stake in believing in sky fairies generally, and who have been indoctrinated by their own old books of stupid, contradictory, inhuman laws, may be more inclined to cut Islam some slack.

I don't
 
2013-04-08 08:12:57 AM
Religion and atheism have a lot in common.  They both like to blowhard false dichotomies between two approaches to life that have, so far, gotten us here.  Carry on.  Fresh poo and incredulous smirks at the popcorn stand.
 
2013-04-08 08:13:08 AM
I wonder if it's willful ignorance or derp that people don't seem to get that people in power are the ones who do bad things, not their religions... well except for Islam... in that particular case, certain really bad things are required for non-believers such as stoning, beheading, jiza, etc. I am sure there is at least one or two other religions that advocate similar things, but I really can't think of any off the top of my head.
 
2013-04-08 08:13:31 AM

log_jammin: adamatari: I think the atheists saying Islam stands out as particularly bad have never read the old testament (go check out the Brick Testament, particularly Judges, anc come back to me), or never read history (nasty wars like the Thirty Years' War, no Muslims involved). Nor do they seem to know the facts on the ground as to who is  really commited to cultural genocide and assimillation of non-believers. There are WAY more Christian and Mormon missionaries than Islamic ones.

The point is that Islam is particular bad NOW, not thousands of years ago.


Tell that to the literally stateless Palestinians, or even the Israeli Arabs whose political parties the other, Jewish parties ganged up on and tried to ban (which would have left the Israeli Arabs effectively disenfrachised - except the Supreme Court of Israel overturned this attempt). Or tell this to those who died in Iraq after a "Christian" president decided to go to war there. Or tell that to gays in Uganda and other African countries. Or, as I said, take a look around NOW and see who is out there undermining every traditional culture with its own values left in the world.

Arguing that Islam is particularly bad among the Abrahamic religions is like arguing the relative terribleness of MRSA, AIDS, and cancer.
 
2013-04-08 08:13:58 AM

Lusiphur: Can you be considered an "islamaphobe" if you simply hate religion? Wouldn't that just be a religiophobe?


No, that would mean having an irrational fear of religion, or an irrational fear of islam. As an atheist, I simply think islam is as make-believe as all the others.
 
2013-04-08 08:14:20 AM
It's not being bigoted to rail against a philosophy (that's what a religion is), particularly when you back it up with facts.

swahnhennessy: With that said, I think Greenwald does a pretty decent job of explaining things in the link provided within the article.


Not really.  He lists some truths about what happened between him and Harris in email/twitter exchanges and provides actual quotes but fails in omitting that Harris repeatedly BACKS UP his assertions with facts.  Greenwald calls it bigotry/islamophobia/racism without bringing to bear the facts that Harris does on WHY he feels Islam is threatening to the world.  This seems to escape a lot of people for some reason.

The concept that one religion is no more dangerous/peaceful than another is *NOT* self evident.  There's no reason to believe they have to be and in the case of Islam, current behaviors, teachings, and events point to it being more dangerous than the others, on the whole.
 
2013-04-08 08:14:34 AM

doglover: mekki: There was only so much you could have done with a stone and a slingshot unless your name was David.


Or Joerg.


can't watch the video at work, but is this a video on the effectiveness of the sling? because there's some really interesting videos out there on this subject... one video i watched had these 3 guys at a gravel pit holding a friendly competition, they set up some old toilets 100 yards away and proceeded to obliterate them using slings...

I was highly impressed by both their accuracy and the amount of destruction a golf ball sized stone could inflict... Once you realize how devastating a sling is, the story of David isn't quite as impressive... A clay bullet (sling ammo back then were kiln fired clan and shaped like a flat football) fired from a professional slinger (a shepherd who practices slinging daily to keep wolves away from the herd) could easily cave in the skull of a person, even one who was 7 or 8 ft tall...
 
2013-04-08 08:15:36 AM
Magical thinking in adults is sad.
 
2013-04-08 08:16:06 AM
cdn.gagbay.com

My view, for what it's worth
 
2013-04-08 08:16:59 AM

neversubmit: Magical thinking in adults is sad.


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-08 08:18:19 AM

propasaurus: That's fascinating. Do tell me how much you Christians love Islam.


BSABSVR.
 
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