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(Vice)   What do you mean we atheists are Islamophobe hatemongers? That's ridi... well, that's actually pretty spot-on   (vice.com) divider line 678
    More: Sad, new atheists, Islamophobia, The God Delusion, Islamist terrorists, Thomas Aquinas, God Is Not Great, Islamic fundamentalism, atheists  
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14319 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Apr 2013 at 5:39 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-08 01:49:59 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: atheists are intolerant.
the article is about them being hatemongers.

happy that you agree.


You don't see the irony of classifying an entire group of people as intolerant?
 
2013-04-08 01:52:13 AM
Sam Harris is a controversial figure in atheism precisely because of his extreme opinions on Islam in general - and indeed, TFA is hardly atypical of the pushback against him.

I've often personally felt that there are plenty of atheists who have a sense of superiority to theists that they don't really deserve. The only difference between an atheist and a theist is that the former believes in one less thing without adequate evidence - and they might not even disbelieve based on the lack of evidence!

/you think this is bad, you should see how we argue amongst ourselves about feminism
 
2013-04-08 01:52:39 AM

doglover: More wasabi for me I guess.

farm5.static.flickr.com

 
2013-04-08 01:55:35 AM

doglover: Lorelle: doglover: It's never the wrong thread.

They're the ones I don't like in the kitchens.

Also people who think a slice of tomato in a grilled cheese is a good idea. Seriously, who does that?

Gosh, that sounds good.

lumiere: doglover: What's the fancy word for people who like cilantro?

That depends, do they only like cilantro, or is their love for cilantro amplified because of their deep hatred of parsley?

I like parsley, too. Horseradish is an abomination, though.


So much fail. 10/10 perfect troll.


I didn't think Lorelle was trolling either.  And I'll eat parsley, cilantro, horseradish, wasabi - just not all together unless it's for a bet.

staplermofo: SpikeStrip: what's that? another colloquialism for vagina?

As far as I know, thanks to islam's fear and revulsion for the vagina, only battery, isomer, motorcross and prescription are not colloquialisms for vagina.  They could be, I'm not an islamic scholar.


Okay, I'll bite.  I'm curious to know what makes people think the vagina is feared and repulsed in Islam.  I'm sincerely curious if you don't mind elaborating on that.
 
2013-04-08 01:58:49 AM

lumiere: I'm curious to know what makes people think the vagina is feared and repulsed in Islam.


because they are full of sand. duh.
 
2013-04-08 02:03:35 AM

log_jammin: lumiere: I'm curious to know what makes people think the vagina is feared and repulsed in Islam.

because they are full of sand. duh.


This.
And they have a tradition of marrying very young, so they can housebreak it early.  They see the wild vaginae of North America rampaging the land like the mighty buffalo, proud, strong and unbroken, and it strikes terror into their hearts.  They prefer domesticated, docile vaginae.  That something about sewing it up, I think that was muslims, or maybe the Japanese, I get them all mixed up.  It was some foreign guys who sound like they're mumbling and swearing furiously at the same time.
 
2013-04-08 02:05:07 AM
just wanted to reference baseketball and boomerang. failed miserably.
 
2013-04-08 02:05:56 AM
Oh crap, I think I mixed up islam with God Emperor of Dune again.  The crescent totally looks like a giant sandworm about to eat a star.  I'm no good at this religious stuff.
 
2013-04-08 02:14:44 AM
The Crusades were no better.
 
2013-04-08 02:15:35 AM

TommyymmoT: The Crusades were no better.


That made no sense without the rejected image..
 
2013-04-08 02:17:06 AM
hpd.de
 
2013-04-08 02:17:11 AM

lumiere: I didn't think Lorelle was trolling either.


Tomatoes IN grilled cheese? Mexican Soap Weed? Doesn't like horseradish?
 
2013-04-08 02:17:51 AM

Lorelle: doglover: More wasabi for me I guess.

[farm5.static.flickr.com image 240x160]


fc03.deviantart.net
 
2013-04-08 02:24:38 AM

doglover: What's the fancy word for people who like cilantro?


Hispanic?

/"You're not Mexican?"
 
2013-04-08 02:55:44 AM

Lorelle: That's not true. I despise all religions equally.

OK, so I hate Catholicism a little bit more than other religions, but that's because I had it shoved down my throat for the first 17 years of my life.


Did you ever file charges?
 
2013-04-08 02:56:30 AM

Mugato: Lorelle: OK, so I hate Catholicism a little bit more than other religions, but that's because I had it shoved down my throat for the first 17 years of my life.

Did you tell an adult? Oh you're a girl, nevermind.


Well goddamit on two counts.

/goes back to drinkin'
 
2013-04-08 03:28:22 AM
Ooh, ooh, a thread about whose beliefs are best and automatically make them good people!
*grabs popcorn - fires up Lostprophets*
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-04-08 04:31:57 AM
If it keeps me from getting a beer and a ham sandwich, I'm against it.
 
2013-04-08 05:00:06 AM
"We never murdered anybody! Cult of personality and other crap! blah blah blah! Khmer Rouge wasn't our fault!"
 
2013-04-08 05:12:39 AM

staplermofo: Sadly, the guy who posed for the ordinary muslim meme blew himself up at a checkpoint outside Jerusalem.


citation needed.
 
2013-04-08 05:13:20 AM

muck4doo: Khmer Rouge wasn't our fault!


hilarious
 
2013-04-08 05:40:59 AM
Just because there are some atheists who are Islamophobic does not mean that all atheists are Islamophobic. Categories, how do they work?
 
2013-04-08 05:50:21 AM
OK, I've just spent the last 20 minutes reading all of the articles and such he links to, and as far as I can tell, his problem isn't that all atheists are Islamophobes, it's that one atheist  (Sam Harris) has said some inflammatory stuff about Islam that was taken out of context by someone else to make it sound like he was bigoted.

Big. Farking. Deal. Even if he was a bigot, why the hell would one bigoted atheist somehow mean the whole movement had a problem with Islam? Is Sam Harris the atheist pope now?
 
2013-04-08 05:50:59 AM

Diagonal: Just because there are some atheists who are Islamophobic does not mean that all atheists are Islamophobic. Categories, how do they work?


Just because there are some racist teabaggers that does not mean that all teabaggers are racists. Categories, how do they work?
 
2013-04-08 05:55:55 AM

Gunther: Is Sam Harris the atheist pope now?


And if so, what shape is his hat?
 
2013-04-08 05:56:14 AM
There's nothing irrational about hating a religion that prescribes death for apostasy.
 
2013-04-08 05:59:03 AM

Gunther: it's that one atheist (Sam Harris) has said some inflammatory stuff about Islam that was taken out of context by someone else to make it sound like he was bigoted.


I think Harris said some pretty farked up stuff but yeah, the rest is vague "new atheists say nasty things" comments and the only real examples given are from Harris.
 
2013-04-08 06:00:05 AM

Relatively Obscure: What I'm wondering, though, is what atheism puts in place of that morality and framework that religions provide.

Oh, this shiat again.


The proper answer would be "personal responsibility to society norms".
 
2013-04-08 06:00:05 AM
Getting paid to troll must be a fun job.
 
2013-04-08 06:00:41 AM

staplermofo: It was some foreign guys who sound like they're mumbling and swearing furiously at the same time.


Germans?
 
2013-04-08 06:00:52 AM
It's sorta easy to fear and hate someone who wants you dead.
 
2013-04-08 06:01:29 AM
Religion is Farked up, but Islam really sucks because the way they treat women.
 
2013-04-08 06:02:06 AM

miss diminutive: Gunther: Is Sam Harris the atheist pope now?

And if so, what shape is his hat?



fc07.deviantart.net
This one gets my vote....
 
2013-04-08 06:03:37 AM

Infernalist: doglover: What's the fancy word for people who like cilantro?

Douchebag?


Ok, I snorted. +1 internets
 
2013-04-08 06:04:17 AM

Relatively Obscure: What I'm wondering, though, is what atheism puts in place of that morality and framework that religions provide.

Oh, this shiat again.


If you're looking for the general philosophy, it's called Secular Humanism.

doglover: What's the fancy word for people who like cilantro?


Tasteless Cretin?
Bob Dole?
 
2013-04-08 06:07:08 AM

propasaurus: That's fascinating. Do tell me how much you Christians love Islam.


probably as much as the libtards love the republicorp.

\agnostic.
 
2013-04-08 06:08:06 AM
Not reading the article, because I'm only gonna get irked. Not all religions are equal, and like other atheists have mentioned (and I agree with) I largely don't give a shiat what you believe until it starts intruding on others. Sam Harris has gone on about this at length. A Jain's belief system really isn't impactful on you or me, and we've nothing to fear from them based solely on their religious beliefs. (An individual human who also happens to be a Jain might be a real bastard, but we're talking about their beliefs).

I was raised Catholic, lots of bad about that faith. I don't harbor any personal animosity (my experiences were largely very positive) but I left 'cause I didn't believe. Worst that happened was the reaction of some in my family. My old religion isn't doing squat about me leaving. If I wrote to the parish I was baptized in and demanded they pull me from the rolls...the worst they'd do is be snotty about it.

I'm an apostate, technically. And in Islam, the punishment for such is death. And this is the legal law in more than one Islamic country.  And yes, you can argue (correctly) that not all muslims believe this. And yet, not all Catholics believe in being against birth control. Or being against abortion. Yet, their stance doesn't reflect what their religion teaches and preaches.

Are there atheist bigots? Well duh. Sure. There's bigots everywhere really. But the majority of atheists who have a biiiig farking issue with Islam specifically do so because it is worse than most other faiths in numerous ways. I've only listed one.

And if you don't think some are worse than others, engage in a little thought experiment for me. Imagine various religions, and imagine YOU are a member of the group they hate most. What do you have to fear from them? If you're in certain parts of Africa, you'd have to fear a nasty strain of Christianity who literally kills people they deem witches...but you'd have a lot more places to fear if we swap in Islam.

And duh of course there are good Muslims, I've known a few. :) But I don't know if they'd be considered a good muslim by other muslims or the tenants of their faith.

But I think all the concepts of god and the divine I've seen are pretty weaksauce.
 
2013-04-08 06:12:14 AM
I find the most recent SMBC to be relevant here. Most atheists I know are like me (also an atheist). They believe what they believe and they don't give a fark about what other people believe. And I know plenty of Christians who are like that. And I also know quite a few pagans/wiccans like that. A taoist, too. For the vast majority of the population, faith is personal and we don't need to scrutinize the faith of others. But then...
 
2013-04-08 06:12:56 AM

lacydog: I find the most recent SMBC to be relevant here. Most atheists I know are like me (also an atheist). They believe what they believe and they don't give a fark about what other people believe. And I know plenty of Christians who are like that. And I also know quite a few pagans/wiccans like that. A taoist, too. For the vast majority of the population, faith is personal and we don't need to scrutinize the faith of others. But then...


Whoops. Image was too big. Link here.
 
2013-04-08 06:14:10 AM
Hypersensitivity in the atheist community is nothing new. PZ Myers' entire blog and the "Skepchick" writers run on it.

I agree that Harris gets a little too extreme sometimes in his remarks about Islam, but it's not wrong to point out that their fundentalists are magnitudes worse that any Christian or Buddhist extremist (whose most radical acts have traditionally been setting themselves on fire.)
 
2013-04-08 06:17:02 AM
imageshack.us
 
2013-04-08 06:20:44 AM
FTA: " Like a lot of atheists, I read a bunch of books about atheism and the shortcomings of religion and smirked at the inconsistencies contained in the Bible and Christianity's other texts." [The books arguing against Christianity were] "stuff written by men-almost always men, almost always white men, not that that matters."

Wait, whatnow? Maybe that's because you're white. If you were an atheist born in Cairo or Calcutta or Peking your statement would probably not hold true.

Also: A person that thinks religions are goofy being outraged that someone else who thinks religions that are especially repressive and violent are especially goofy is FARKING STUPID.

Why is it that atheists often sound like pretentious douchebags? Is that just their cross to bear?
 
2013-04-08 06:22:48 AM
The Quran says that you and I deserve to have our skin burned off, and Muslims say it is the most beautiful book ever written. That is all.
 
2013-04-08 06:22:51 AM

Lady Indica: I'm an apostate, technically. And in Islam, the punishment for such is death. And this is the legal law in more than one Islamic country. And yes, you can argue (correctly) that not all muslims believe this. And yet, not all Catholics believe in being against birth control. Or being against abortion. Yet, their stance doesn't reflect what their religion teaches and preaches.

Are there atheist bigots? Well duh. Sure. There's bigots everywhere really. But the majority of atheists who have a biiiig farking issue with Islam specifically do so because it is worse than most other faiths in numerous ways. I've only listed one.


That's probably a bit too broad of a brush, though. And I think the point of the article is that these sorts of characterizations probably do more to exacerbate the problem than to help it. When Dawkins/Hitchens write these things about Islam, they serve to inflame those in the Islamic community who believe that the West is out to get them, and provides them "proof" of that conspiracy. That's not to say that we should hold no judgement about practices of other people, but the arguments by bigoted atheists are sloppily applying things that happen in one country or in one sect to attack the entire religion. Which makes sense if your goal is to bring down organized religion. But if you consider yourself a "live and let live" type of atheist, then you probably would do best to avoid those sorts of arguments.

If you read about a terrible practice coming from a specific part of the world, you're justified in taking a stance against that practice. You can say "the Taliban are a bunch of jackasses, and we shouldn't be allowing them any sort of power", and that's not bigoted in the slightest. It is a stretch to say that Islam is the root of all of it, and therefor should be removed. If you want to argue that because you think all religion is bad, then that's your prerogative. But if you want to preach tolerance and acceptance and all that jazz... be careful about painting everyone with the same brush because they all fall under a similar-looking umbrella.
 
2013-04-08 06:25:38 AM

WhoopAssWayne: [imageshack.us image 399x599]


That's generally more the domain of the spiritual but not religious category, not the atheist/agnostic crowd.
 
2013-04-08 06:26:31 AM

Lorelle: That's not true. I despise all religions equally.

OK, so I hate Catholicism a little bit more than other religions, but that's because I had it shoved down my throat for the first 17 years of my life.


This. Well, the first ten years anyway. But it's easy to hate the Catholic church anyway.
 
2013-04-08 06:26:44 AM
I think it has to do with which extremists are more likely to cut off your head for your non-beliefs, currently.

(That likelihood having as much to do with the existence/permissiveness of local law enforcement as anything else.)
 
2013-04-08 06:28:39 AM

Lusiphur: Can you be considered an "islamaphobe" if you simply hate religion? Wouldn't that just be a religiophobe?


His entire point was that the 'new atheists' specifically single out Islam as an order of magnitude worse than the 'run of the mill evil' perpetrated by religion in general. So yes, it is possible to have an irrational fear for a specific subset belonging to a group that you decry, ostensibly for rational reasons. You can hate "bugs," because in your experience they are pests and in rare instances carry disease and are generally irritating. At the same time, you can be an arachnophobe. This doesn't make you a "bugophobe."

.

As far as defining the "good", society itself can do that. It can do it a lot better than the otherwise immutable rules handed down from a divine source. You don't need a threat of everlasting hell to force a kid to do his chores (or not kill people). Secular aesops (for example, Dr Seuss) can teach morality without ever deliberately invoking supreme beings (though I'm sure arguments would be made that they contain religious imagery, because people tend to look for it even where it is not intended). Likewise, as far as adults are concerned, punishment by human law would serve just as well as hell.

That is, of course, provided that the concept of an everlasting and a "true religion" can be purged from the public belief. Which is not likely to happen. You cannot destroy religion. If it were possible, it is likely that the concept of a religious belief would never have developed. We create answers for things we cannot see or understand - it's how we survived. The best you can hope for is to disconnect the religious belief from the secular, physical life. I don't care what you believe as long as you're not trying to influence the lives of others based on irrational arguments. Force daily prayer because {religion} is True and God would be offended otherwise? Well, no. Force daily prayer because it improves humility and thus social bonds? In that case, if you have evidence of such a response, I'll consider it on those merits. (Take note that this is just an example.)
 
2013-04-08 06:31:29 AM

lacydog: Lady Indica: I'm an apostate, technically. And in Islam, the punishment for such is death. And this is the legal law in more than one Islamic country. And yes, you can argue (correctly) that not all muslims believe this. And yet, not all Catholics believe in being against birth control. Or being against abortion. Yet, their stance doesn't reflect what their religion teaches and preaches.

Are there atheist bigots? Well duh. Sure. There's bigots everywhere really. But the majority of atheists who have a biiiig farking issue with Islam specifically do so because it is worse than most other faiths in numerous ways. I've only listed one.

That's probably a bit too broad of a brush, though. And I think the point of the article is that these sorts of characterizations probably do more to exacerbate the problem than to help it. When Dawkins/Hitchens write these things about Islam, they serve to inflame those in the Islamic community who believe that the West is out to get them, and provides them "proof" of that conspiracy. That's not to say that we should hold no judgement about practices of other people, but the arguments by bigoted atheists are sloppily applying things that happen in one country or in one sect to attack the entire religion. Which makes sense if your goal is to bring down organized religion. But if you consider yourself a "live and let live" type of atheist, then you probably would do best to avoid those sorts of arguments.

If you read about a terrible practice coming from a specific part of the world, you're justified in taking a stance against that practice. You can say "the Taliban are a bunch of jackasses, and we shouldn't be allowing them any sort of power", and that's not bigoted in the slightest. It is a stretch to say that Islam is the root of all of it, and therefor should be removed. If you want to argue that because you think all religion is bad, then that's your prerogative. But if you want to preach tolerance and acceptance and all that jazz... be careful about painting everyone with the same brush because they all fall under a similar-looking umbrella.


Ask any Muslim one direct question. Does Islam require you to convert, subjugate or kill non-believers? All religions will legislate their beliefs if they have the power.
 
2013-04-08 06:32:03 AM

staplermofo: tenpoundsofcheese: I was agreeing that they are intolerant.

SEE HOW THIS IS NOT 500 LINES OF TEXT!?  CAN YOU IMAGINE WHY THE REST OF THE WORLD WOULD LIKE THAT?!


Imagine all the people
Trimming their quotes down-ho ah ah ah
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
Some day I hope you'll trim your quotes, too,
And the world can live as one.
 
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