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(Miami Herald)   Marlins run out of first basemen due to multiple injuries, let random outfielders and catchers audition for job on short notice. Coach: "There's a lot more to it than running over and putting your foot on a white thing"   (miamiherald.com) divider line 56
    More: Florida, Marlins, Ricky Nolasco, Casey Kotchman, first base, Chris Coghlan, Miguel Olivo, Austin Kearns, catch up to a fastball  
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1700 clicks; posted to Sports » on 07 Apr 2013 at 11:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-07 08:56:04 PM
www.autotrader.co.uk
"How hard can it be?"
 
2013-04-07 09:12:51 PM

King Something: [www.autotrader.co.uk image 300x200]
"How hard can it be?"


i47.tinypic.com
 
2013-04-07 09:26:50 PM
It's farking 1st base.  It's the position everyone moves to once they get old but can still hit.  It's not that farking hard.
 
2013-04-07 09:47:32 PM

GAT_00: It's farking 1st base.  It's the position everyone moves to once they get old but can still hit.  It's not that farking hard.


you've apparently never watched Ryan Howard try to play the position.
 
2013-04-07 10:04:32 PM

GAT_00: It's farking 1st base.  It's the position everyone moves to once they get old but can still hit.  It's not that farking hard.


This situation was a sub-plot of Moneyball.
 
2013-04-07 10:22:54 PM
There's a lot more to it than running over and putting your foot on a white thing

Spluh! I know how to make love!
 
2013-04-07 10:40:05 PM

Whistling Kitty Chaser: GAT_00: It's farking 1st base.  It's the position everyone moves to once they get old but can still hit.  It's not that farking hard.

This situation was a sub-plot of Moneyball.


I have still never gotten to watch that movie.

SilentStrider: GAT_00: It's farking 1st base.  It's the position everyone moves to once they get old but can still hit.  It's not that farking hard.

you've apparently never watched Ryan Howard try to play the position.


Prince Fielder is pretty damn terrible at it too.
 
2013-04-07 11:18:48 PM
It's incredibl

Whistling Kitty Chaser: GAT_00: It's farking 1st base.  It's the position everyone moves to once they get old but can still hit.  It's not that farking hard.

This situation was a sub-plot of Moneyball.


Dang it!
 
2013-04-07 11:30:28 PM

GAT_00: Whistling Kitty Chaser: GAT_00: It's farking 1st base.  It's the position everyone moves to once they get old but can still hit.  It's not that farking hard.

This situation was a sub-plot of Moneyball.

I have still never gotten to watch that movie.

SilentStrider: GAT_00: It's farking 1st base.  It's the position everyone moves to once they get old but can still hit.  It's not that farking hard.

you've apparently never watched Ryan Howard try to play the position.

Prince Fielder is pretty damn terrible at it too.


Bad, but not the worst. I think the worst fielding 1B's are Hosmer, Reynolds, Konerko (Butler, Dunn, Encarnacion and C. Davis would fit in to but they don't really do it full time).
 
2013-04-07 11:50:54 PM
GAT_00:

Prince Fielder is pretty damn terrible at it too.

Fielder has the Derek Jeter problem.  He'll field the ball if it's close enough, but his range is absolutely terrible.  Probably comes with being under 6 feet tall and weighing over 250 lbs.

Speaking of Fielder, the Brewers are having fun in his absence.  Went to the game today, and over the course of the game there were 3 different SS's, 2 different 1B's, and 2 different catchers.

Started with Geraldo Parra sliding into Jean Segura's leg, taking him out of the game.  Then, Alex Gonzalez, who was playing 3B (!) moved to SS, and Yuniesky Betancourt moved from 1B (!!) to 3B (!!!).  Martin Maldonado then moved from C to 1B, ruining Lucroy's day off, who then came in to catch.  Then later, they double switched newcomer Josh Prince in at 3B after a pinch hit and moved Betancourt to SS, where he sort of belongs.  At least that's what he's advertised as.

Got all of that?  Okay, now with the tying run on 3rd, bottom of the 11th with two outs, Ryan Braun was in the on deck circle but decided he couldn't muster it with his DTD neck issues.  The bench was so empty that Kyle Lohse (...) came on to pinch hit.  Because there was nobody else left.  Even the best hitting SP on the team, Gallardo, was out because he had started the game.

Yeah, so the Marlins aren't exactly alone.
 
2013-04-07 11:53:14 PM
That's so weird.  You just don't expect Casey Kotchman to get injured.  Who could have forseen this?
 
2013-04-08 12:02:40 AM
"There's a lot more to it than running over and putting your foot on a white thing"

Yep. You have to collect the money from the john first, then get the the KY Jelly and rub it all over your foot including in between the toes, then you can go on and put your foot all over that white thing.
 
2013-04-08 12:29:48 AM

MichiganFTL: GAT_00: Whistling Kitty Chaser: GAT_00: It's farking 1st base.  It's the position everyone moves to once they get old but can still hit.  It's not that farking hard.

This situation was a sub-plot of Moneyball.

I have still never gotten to watch that movie.

SilentStrider: GAT_00: It's farking 1st base.  It's the position everyone moves to once they get old but can still hit.  It's not that farking hard.

you've apparently never watched Ryan Howard try to play the position.

Prince Fielder is pretty damn terrible at it too.

Bad, but not the worst. I think the worst fielding 1B's are Hosmer, Reynolds, Konerko (Butler, Dunn, Encarnacion and C. Davis would fit in to but they don't really do it full time).




Actually Hosmer is pretty decent defensive first basemen. As for Butler he's a DH who once in a while plays first.
 
2013-04-08 12:44:07 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Actually Hosmer is pretty decent defensive first basemen.


I know everyone hates advanced defensive metrics and all, but since 2002 (which is the earliest season we have UZR for), the worst 1B in UZR/150 with at least 2000 innings is


Eric Hosmer.

Now, he's actually (BARELY) above average when it comes to errors (which is, presumably, why you think he's "pretty decent.") But according to UZR, he's got absolutely no range.

DRS likes him a BIT better, but not significantly.
 
2013-04-08 12:49:21 AM
And yet they still beat the mets.
 
2013-04-08 12:49:32 AM
Good thing they don't have a hard-hitting team up next starting tomorrow.

Oh wait
 
2013-04-08 12:57:01 AM

DeWayne Mann: I know everyone hates advanced defensive metrics and all, but since 2002 (which is the earliest season we have UZR for), the worst 1B in UZR/150 with at least 2000 innings is


Eric Hosmer.


As a followup, Royals Review looked into this a bit, and found that Hosmer plays way too close to the bag and doesn't have the range to make plays to the right that most first basemen make.

Of course, it's unclear if that positioning is Hosmer or the coaching staff. RR concluded it was mostly the coaching staff, but that's a tough call to make.
 
2013-04-08 01:21:32 AM
I thought Left Field was where they stashed all the old players who can't play defense anymore? It's the only way the Cubs can still justify playing Alfonso Soriano everyday.

/well, besides the two years left on his contract and oodles of money still owed
 
2013-04-08 01:34:18 AM
There is a lot of footwork that needs to become second nature to be a quality first baseman.
 
2013-04-08 01:35:38 AM
Who's on first.
 
2013-04-08 01:44:24 AM

germ78: I thought Left Field was where they stashed all the old players who can't play defense anymore? It's the only way the Cubs can still justify playing Alfonso Soriano everyday.

/well, besides the two years left on his contract and oodles of money still owed


LF sees significantly more balls than RF, since most players are right handed and most players tend to pull the ball. Of course, a good RF needs a good arm for throws to third, even if he's involved in the fewest plays. Finally, first base tends to require the least movement (ignoring catcher), but gets involved on the most plays (ignoring catcher).

So it mostly depends on who the player actually is. Soriano still has pretty good speed, so LF is a good fit for him (and, in fact, UZR thinks he's a pretty decent LF for that reason). Someone like, say, Vlad Guerrero (who is trying to make a major league comeback) would make the most sense in RF. But for the most part, as long as the guy's bat won't kill you there, 1B is probably best.
 
2013-04-08 01:44:33 AM
The Marlins now have fewer qualified first basemen on their roster than they have fans.
 
2013-04-08 01:44:56 AM

red5ish: Who's on first.


Prince Fielder
 
2013-04-08 01:58:34 AM

DeWayne Mann: germ78: I thought Left Field was where they stashed all the old players who can't play defense anymore? It's the only way the Cubs can still justify playing Alfonso Soriano everyday.

/well, besides the two years left on his contract and oodles of money still owed

LF sees significantly more balls than RF, since most players are right handed and most players tend to pull the ball. Of course, a good RF needs a good arm for throws to third, even if he's involved in the fewest plays. Finally, first base tends to require the least movement (ignoring catcher), but gets involved on the most plays (ignoring catcher).

So it mostly depends on who the player actually is. Soriano still has pretty good speed, so LF is a good fit for him (and, in fact, UZR thinks he's a pretty decent LF for that reason). Someone like, say, Vlad Guerrero (who is trying to make a major league comeback) would make the most sense in RF. But for the most part, as long as the guy's bat won't kill you there, 1B is probably best.


I think arm's overrated in right, or at least, underrated in left field.  Juan Pierre has my arm.  David Wright managed to tag up on a fly ball to shallow left (granted, near the line) and take 2nd base, and it wasn't even close.

I'm not sure I have a point, but man, Juan Pierre's arm sucks.
 
2013-04-08 02:10:12 AM

Dafatone: DeWayne Mann: germ78: I thought Left Field was where they stashed all the old players who can't play defense anymore? It's the only way the Cubs can still justify playing Alfonso Soriano everyday.

/well, besides the two years left on his contract and oodles of money still owed

LF sees significantly more balls than RF, since most players are right handed and most players tend to pull the ball. Of course, a good RF needs a good arm for throws to third, even if he's involved in the fewest plays. Finally, first base tends to require the least movement (ignoring catcher), but gets involved on the most plays (ignoring catcher).

So it mostly depends on who the player actually is. Soriano still has pretty good speed, so LF is a good fit for him (and, in fact, UZR thinks he's a pretty decent LF for that reason). Someone like, say, Vlad Guerrero (who is trying to make a major league comeback) would make the most sense in RF. But for the most part, as long as the guy's bat won't kill you there, 1B is probably best.

I think arm's overrated in right, or at least, underrated in left field.  Juan Pierre has my arm.  David Wright managed to tag up on a fly ball to shallow left (granted, near the line) and take 2nd base, and it wasn't even close.

I'm not sure I have a point, but man, Juan Pierre's arm sucks.


Juan Pierre's arm does suck. Johnny Damon is fun too.

The thing is, you don't need much of an arm to throw to third. And the opportunity for a 7-3 putout arises once every hundred years or so (good job Sean Casey), so you don't have to worry about that too much.

But RF is the opposite: the throw to first is short (but they almost never have to do it); the throw to third is tough but happens fairly often.

And then, of course, the throws to 2B & Home are roughly equal.  So all together, compared to RF, a arm in LF is not entirely required.
 
2013-04-08 02:15:10 AM

DeWayne Mann: Dafatone: DeWayne Mann: germ78: I thought Left Field was where they stashed all the old players who can't play defense anymore? It's the only way the Cubs can still justify playing Alfonso Soriano everyday.

/well, besides the two years left on his contract and oodles of money still owed

LF sees significantly more balls than RF, since most players are right handed and most players tend to pull the ball. Of course, a good RF needs a good arm for throws to third, even if he's involved in the fewest plays. Finally, first base tends to require the least movement (ignoring catcher), but gets involved on the most plays (ignoring catcher).

So it mostly depends on who the player actually is. Soriano still has pretty good speed, so LF is a good fit for him (and, in fact, UZR thinks he's a pretty decent LF for that reason). Someone like, say, Vlad Guerrero (who is trying to make a major league comeback) would make the most sense in RF. But for the most part, as long as the guy's bat won't kill you there, 1B is probably best.

I think arm's overrated in right, or at least, underrated in left field.  Juan Pierre has my arm.  David Wright managed to tag up on a fly ball to shallow left (granted, near the line) and take 2nd base, and it wasn't even close.

I'm not sure I have a point, but man, Juan Pierre's arm sucks.

Juan Pierre's arm does suck. Johnny Damon is fun too.

The thing is, you don't need much of an arm to throw to third. And the opportunity for a 7-3 putout arises once every hundred years or so (good job Sean Casey), so you don't have to worry about that too much.

But RF is the opposite: the throw to first is short (but they almost never have to do it); the throw to third is tough but happens fairly often.

And then, of course, the throws to 2B & Home are roughly equal.  So all together, compared to RF, a arm in LF is not entirely required.


Oh sure, RF's more important.  But people get all obsessed with RF arms, and then you wind up with people thinking Jeff Francouer is (still) a great fielder.
 
2013-04-08 02:26:15 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that the Marlins are going to have a very bad season.
 
2013-04-08 03:39:03 AM
Better than the right field conundrum whilst in Little League.
 
2013-04-08 04:28:39 AM

King Something: [www.autotrader.co.uk image 300x200]
"How hard can it be?"


Jezza's hairstyle choices from earlier in life never fail to amaze me.
 
2013-04-08 04:36:03 AM
Came for some kind of Bill Buckner reference, but oh well.
 
2013-04-08 05:23:52 AM

had98c: Came for some kind of Bill Buckner reference, but oh well.


Marlins wish they had a 1B like Buckner.
 
2013-04-08 05:29:19 AM

red5ish: I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that the Marlins are going to have a very bad season.


Yes...but will they suck as much as Houston?

The Race to the Bottom should be interesting
 
2013-04-08 06:10:36 AM

red5ish: I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that the Marlins are going to have a very bad season.


Or they will win the World Series and have to come up with a way to blow it up and field an even more barebones team next year
 
2013-04-08 07:12:12 AM
They can always get Don Mattingly once he decides to cut off his damn sideburns
 
2013-04-08 07:58:21 AM
 "There's a lot more to it than running over and putting your foot on a white thing"

No, there really isn't.
 
2013-04-08 08:11:36 AM

DeWayne Mann: DeWayne Mann: I know everyone hates advanced defensive metrics and all, but since 2002 (which is the earliest season we have UZR for), the worst 1B in UZR/150 with at least 2000 innings is


Eric Hosmer.

As a followup, Royals Review looked into this a bit, and found that Hosmer plays way too close to the bag and doesn't have the range to make plays to the right that most first basemen make.

Of course, it's unclear if that positioning is Hosmer or the coaching staff. RR concluded it was mostly the coaching staff, but that's a tough call to make.


He is all of 23 years old and based on my limited watching not an unbelievably terrible athlete, hopefully he can be taught to field the position properly. Being rushed to the majors couldn't have helped.
 
2013-04-08 08:14:39 AM
It's much harder playing first in a softball league when you have those crappy thin bases.

You're trying to run over to the base and set for the throw and the whole time you're desparately trying to feel that your foot is on something, but not going to get your ankle snapped when the 225lb guy trucking to first bursts through.
 
2013-04-08 08:30:55 AM
Remember the ichiro laser beam meme, and when Alex Rios had a "awesome" arm. Ah good times.

Do any metrics include OF throws other than the occasional errant throw?
 
2013-04-08 08:56:38 AM

GAT_00: Whistling Kitty Chaser: GAT_00: It's farking 1st base.  It's the position everyone moves to once they get old but can still hit.  It's not that farking hard.

This situation was a sub-plot of Moneyball.

I have still never gotten to watch that movie.

SilentStrider: GAT_00: It's farking 1st base.  It's the position everyone moves to once they get old but can still hit.  It's not that farking hard.

you've apparently never watched Ryan Howard try to play the position.

Prince Fielder is pretty damn terrible at it too.


At least Prince can still hit...
 
2013-04-08 09:13:18 AM
I just remember THIS.
 
2013-04-08 09:27:36 AM
For 1B to be done right you need a decent athlete(more than 3b).  The position is responsible for a lot of things on the field(more than 3b) .
-You need a good arm and quick hands for the cuts from CF and RF to home
-You need good range, footwork, reflexes, and quick feet to read and react to groundballs(do you field it? do you cover the bag? is the runner so quick that the fielder will have the ball in the air by the time you reach the bag? is it a double and are you chasing the runner? etc)
-You need to hit well enough to warrant playing the position(so many NL teams dump their best hitter/worst fielder at 1B that you need to hit well regardless of your fielding ability)
-You need some serious balls to field rockets from the lefthanded powerhitters that litter the professional game(which levels before it do not prepare you for)

Of course there's more, but that's a decent summary.
 
2013-04-08 10:04:15 AM

bhcompy: For 1B to be done right you need a decent athlete(more than 3b).


bhcompy: so many NL teams dump their best hitter/worst fielder at 1B


Your points contradict themselves.
 
2013-04-08 10:24:06 AM

MugzyBrown: bhcompy: For 1B to be done right you need a decent athlete(more than 3b).

bhcompy: so many NL teams dump their best hitter/worst fielder at 1B

Your points contradict themselves.


Where did I claim they're doing it right?
 
2013-04-08 10:26:30 AM

bhcompy: You need a good arm and quick hands for the cuts from CF and RF to home


Do first basemen typically have any role in cutoff throws? I thought that was usually the SS or 2B
 
2013-04-08 10:36:14 AM

dukeblue219: bhcompy: You need a good arm and quick hands for the cuts from CF and RF to home

Do first basemen typically have any role in cutoff throws? I thought that was usually the SS or 2B


1st base takes infield cuts if there's going to be a throw home, and they might have to let the run score but try to get a base runner advancing on the throw.  Pitcher backs up, 1st base gets between the throw and the plate, about halfway in the infield.  Catcher has to call for the cut.
 
2013-04-08 10:51:32 AM

lunchinlewis: about halfway in the infield.


Ah, of course, I can picture it now, the first baseman near the pitcher's mound ready to cut a throw to stop a runner from advancing.
 
2013-04-08 11:16:26 AM

You're the jerk... jerk: DeWayne Mann: DeWayne Mann: I know everyone hates advanced defensive metrics and all, but since 2002 (which is the earliest season we have UZR for), the worst 1B in UZR/150 with at least 2000 innings is


Eric Hosmer.

As a followup, Royals Review looked into this a bit, and found that Hosmer plays way too close to the bag and doesn't have the range to make plays to the right that most first basemen make.

Of course, it's unclear if that positioning is Hosmer or the coaching staff. RR concluded it was mostly the coaching staff, but that's a tough call to make.

He is all of 23 years old and based on my limited watching not an unbelievably terrible athlete, hopefully he can be taught to field the position properly. Being rushed to the majors couldn't have helped.


Ah, a fellow Tim Tebow fan! :)

/out before "he is an unbelievably terrible athlete"
 
2013-04-08 12:10:12 PM

dukeblue219: lunchinlewis: about halfway in the infield.

Ah, of course, I can picture it now, the first baseman near the pitcher's mound ready to cut a throw to stop a runner from advancing.


Yes, the idea is that the 1B covers throws from CF or RF to home while the 2B/SS sets up for throws to 3rd and the other covers 2nd(depending on if the hit is to CF or RF).  Usually a few steps in from the grass/dirt line on the interior diamond depending on the OF's arm and hit distance.
 
2013-04-08 12:15:27 PM

bhcompy: dukeblue219: lunchinlewis: about halfway in the infield.

Ah, of course, I can picture it now, the first baseman near the pitcher's mound ready to cut a throw to stop a runner from advancing.

Yes, the idea is that the 1B covers throws from CF or RF to home while the 2B/SS sets up for throws to 3rd and the other covers 2nd(depending on if the hit is to CF or RF).  Usually a few steps in from the grass/dirt line on the interior diamond depending on the OF's arm and hit distance.


Or if there's a runner on 2nd and a hit to RF/CF, the 2B/SS are covering the cutoff to and the base at 2nd while the 1B covers the throw to home for if the runner goes.  Either way, the 1B has to cover those because everyone else is engaged and cannot leave their position(P has backup at 3rd/home).  If the runner is left alone at 1st on a base hit that is okay because 2nd is covered and a throw can be made to cut the runner down if necessary.  No other base can be left alone safely.
 
2013-04-08 12:47:21 PM

GAT_00: It's farking 1st base.  It's the position everyone moves to once they get old but can still hit.  It's not that farking hard.


I was an outfielder turned 1st Basemen back in high school. Learning "where to be" in different situations is fairly easy. You already know 99% of the stuff just from having been around baseball.

Playing the position is harder. It's a different set of skills and the position is far more reactionary. And there is less time to react.

In the outfield, there is time when you're tracking down the ball and someone is usually yelling where to throw the ball to think about what you're going to do. In the infield, you have to know exactly what you're going to do in a dozen different situations.

It's usually a very doable transition for professional ball players, but it's not like moving a right fielder to left field, which is essentially the same job.
 
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