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(Opposing Views)   More than 700 educators from one particular state decided to better themselves this weekend. Did they do it by a.) Taking advanced math classes, b.) Researching teaching methods utilized in Europe, or c.) Attending a free gun class? Hint: Texas   (opposingviews.com) divider line 49
    More: Interesting, Texas, teachers, performing arts center, Dallas Morning News, Dallas-Fort Worth, Navy SEAL Chris Kyle  
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2279 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Apr 2013 at 2:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-04-07 01:51:35 PM  
4 votes:
And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corner. Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids. There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this. It's stories and classes like these that inflame the ignorant and send them shrieking for their guns. I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom. That is not the place for it, and it changes the tenor of the room and the schoolhouse. It no longer is a place of safety and learning. When you put guns in the schoolhouse, it becomes nothing more than a prison.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.
2013-04-07 03:09:51 PM  
3 votes:

Great_Milenko: ThatGuyGreg: Is it really just one class? Isn't that somewhat useless, if not worse than nothing, without ongoing instruction, or at least practice?

20 minutes of "this is the trigger, and this is what you point at what you want to die" followed by two hours of telling you how the Kenyan Usurper is coming to take it from you.  What more could they need?


You've never been to a gun safety class, have you?  Your ignorance on the topic shines though.
2013-04-07 05:15:10 PM  
2 votes:
Fark liberals @ top-of-the-hour: "The War on Drugs was a complete failure. Legalize weed at the very least, and stop this insanity!!! And, DON'T tell me what I can and can't do in my own home or bedroom!"
Fark liberals @ botton-of-the-hour: "We NEED a War on Guns!!! There are a bunch of mentally ill people that, if given access to them, will cause much harm to themselves and/or others!!! The Feds should restrict your access to them, so it will then be much harder to find one!"

Liberals divide by zero in every Fark gun thread.
2013-04-07 04:14:10 PM  
2 votes:

tudorgurl: Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids.We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this.


Half of my professors were veterans. Several had seen actual combat in Vietnam - a school shooter running into an armed Dr. P would have been hilarious.
2013-04-07 04:09:37 PM  
2 votes:

demaL-demaL-yeH: MichiganFTL: The incidence of mental health disorders are, and always will be, dispersed throughout society. Throw millions of firearms into the mix and the probability of homicide approaches levels that are statistically likely. More guns, more murder. Period.

actually, haven't murders decreased as guns have increased over the past 15 years?

Try matching that against the decrease in percentage of households with firearms and get back to me, troll.

keep moving the goalposts. He said more guns = more murder, I disproved that. You have to move goalposts. Standard tactic. So you'll still concede that with more guns in the hands of less households, we have less murder? So does that mean we've disarmed a good amount of bad people already?

Moving goalposts? They haven't changed position. Try reading comprehension.

Fewer armed households means fewer readily available firearms in households with mentally ill people.


but there are more households with firearms now than anytime in the past 20 years... Or we can now devolve into throwing statistics compiled from 500 robocalls trying to portray all of America. We trust cops and Beyonce's entourage with firearms and barely a high school education, but (mainly) college educated erudite educators cannot be trusted?
2013-04-07 03:57:29 PM  
2 votes:
Self reported gun ownership in us is highest in 20 years

So, according to Gallup, we have more guns in the us than 20 years ago, more households with guns than in 20 years and a murder rate on the decline.

Where shall we move the goalposts next?
2013-04-07 03:48:30 PM  
2 votes:

tylerdurden217: RickN99: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: "Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.

What kind of interpersonal skill is shooting someone?

The best kind, if someone's pointing a gun at you.

Only a nutjob would think killing someone to be a useful skill that a teacher should cultivate.

I think knowing how to defend yourself is a skill everyone in every profession should cultivate.  I guess teaching a 55-yo, 90-lb school librarian how to box would be an option, but I'm skeptical.

I'm a nutjob, I guess.

Defend themselves against what exactly? Please tell us more about this fantastical world where school librarians experience credible and even probable threat of being assaulted or murdered.

The incidence of mental health disorders are, and always will be, dispersed throughout society. Throw millions of firearms into the mix and the probability of homicide approaches levels that are statistically likely. More guns, more murder. Period.


actually, haven't murders decreased as guns have increased over the past 15 years?
2013-04-07 03:34:20 PM  
2 votes:
Good.  Let this happen.  Will it prevent a school shooting?  I don't know.  The biggest advantage shooters had in past school shootings was that there was no one in the schools who were armed.  You just had rooms full of people who are cowering in fear and not armed.  I've played enough first person shooters to know that a room like that on a map is just a chance to rack up your frag count.  Equalize the playing field by arming the teachers who want to be armed, and that might actually prevent a school shooting.  And honestly, if arming half the teachers in a school can prevent a school shooting, was arming the teachers a bad thing.

As for those who don't like guns or the idea of a teacher being armed, shut up and get over it.  I've used guns before.  When loaded, do you know when the gun is dangerous?  When there is a finger on the trigger.  Guns don't go off because you drop them.  Never seen it happen outside of a movie or tv show.  A gun in a holster, even if loaded, isn't dangerous.  A gun isn't dangerous until a hand has gripped it and wrapped a finger around the trigger.  And I think that it's awesome that 700 teachers went to a class to reinforce or learn about guns.  I think that anyone who is even thinking about getting a gun should take a gun class first.  And arming the teachers isn't going to lead to a bunch of news stories about teachers gunning down students.  Not going to happen, even though that's the belief of the anti-gun crowd.
2013-04-07 01:33:45 PM  
2 votes:
Good for them.
A) Advanced math classes would have been good.
B) I live in Europe. Teaching methods here are for shiat. You know not of what you speak.
C) Attending free gun class. Excellent. Ignorant gun users generally cause more problems.

Texas rocks. I miss home.
2013-04-08 06:49:53 AM  
1 votes:
People who think that "Gun Free Zones" are a GOOD thing need to PROVE it...post your full name and address. If you think that announcing to everyone that you are unarmed / unprotected is good, then DO IT already.

 
If you are not willing to let EVERYONE know your home is a "Gun Free Zone" (just like we do with our schools) then shut your hypocritical mouth, and let the adults have a grown up conversation.
2013-04-07 11:11:53 PM  
1 votes:
I personally love that subby and people like him hate Texas so much.  It means you freaks won't move here and mess things up like you did your own states.  ; )
2013-04-07 09:54:02 PM  
1 votes:

demaL-demaL-yeH: Oh, look, it's this thread again.
Again.
Again.

The usual nimrods will claim that adding more firearms to a place where they shouldn't be is a better solution than keeping firearms out of the hands of mentally ill people in the first place. Because 2nd Ammendment[sic].

/I wonder how many Texas school staff members will shoot themselves or somebody else this time around.


Odd isn't it that it has been illegal for a felon, drug addict, lunatic or wife beater to even touch gun since 1968. Yet they still manage to find a way to shoot people. Maybe we could make it double illegal and that would work. What is the line about expecting the same action to give different results?
2013-04-07 09:42:06 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: "Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.

What kind of interpersonal skill is shooting someone?

The best kind, if someone's pointing a gun at you.

Only a nutjob would think killing someone to be a useful skill that a teacher should cultivate.


What, you think it would be more useful to cultivate being a helpless victim and dying?
2013-04-07 09:38:38 PM  
1 votes:
I don't have a problem with this.

We want teachers to be ignorant about guns? Really?
2013-04-07 08:08:56 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: GUTSU: GAT_00: knbwhite: tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corner. Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids. There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this. It's stories and classes like these that inflame the ignorant and send them shrieking for their guns. I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom. That is not the place for it, and it changes the tenor of the room and the schoolhouse. It no longer is a place of safety and learning. When you put guns in the schoolhouse, it becomes nothing more than a prison.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.

No one is telling you that you must have a gun.  Can't we be pro choice on the teacher with a gun issue?

Yes, because the solution to a school shooting is clearly a shootout.

Yes the obvious solution is to hide in the corner of a room and hope he doesn't come in. Brilliant plan GAT_00

Kids are being shot?  Why let's just shoot more kids!  Unless of course you're assuming the teacher has perfect accuracy, which people like you always do.  Somehow the armed citizen is always going to kill the shooter in one shot.


Actually, usually the first shot, if it misses, causes the would be spree killer to put a bullet through their own head.

 There are many news stories out there and even more stories about where people just pulling out a gun is enough to defuse the situation.

This is all well documented. I cannot surmise a logical reason why you are ignoring it, except that it doesn't fit with your world view, so facts be damned.

/sigh.
2013-04-07 07:49:42 PM  
1 votes:

tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corner. Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids. There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this. It's stories and classes like these that inflame the ignorant and send them shrieking for their guns. I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom. That is not the place for it, and it changes the tenor of the room and the schoolhouse. It no longer is a place of safety and learning. When you put guns in the schoolhouse, it becomes nothing more than a prison.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.


 Actually one of my teachers *was* a solider.

Nobody is forcing you to carry a gun, but there are people who would prefer to do so.

 Many of us grew up in houses with guns. It was still considered a place of safety and love that we fondly go back to visit during holidays.

 I am not sure why you think another person having a gun turns the place where they are at into an unsafe prison full of fear. You seem to live in more fear then the people you "feel sorry for". :\
2013-04-07 05:54:08 PM  
1 votes:

cbuhler: tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corner. Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids. There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this. It's stories and classes like these that inflame the ignorant and send them shrieking for their guns. I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom. That is not the place for it, and it changes the tenor of the room and the schoolhouse. It no longer is a place of safety and learning. When you put guns in the schoolhouse, it becomes nothing more than a prison.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.

I agree with you almost completely.  I personally think that teachers need to be trained to teach, cops need to be trained to protect.   I can see having a cop on duty during school hours, many schools already do, but lets not arm the teachers.  Now if a teacher wants to learn to shoot, I think that's great. It's a great hobby that I enjoy myself, but it needs to stay a hobby and not brought to school.

No one would expect a cop to be able to teach reading to a dyslexic student, we shouldn't expect teachers to play cop either.


How about being pro choice on teachers with guns?  Also, if we can't have police in every school consider this; when seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

/please grade my semicolon use if you respond
//here is a spare colon if you don't have one lying around :
2013-04-07 05:49:02 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: GUTSU: GAT_00: GUTSU: GAT_00: knbwhite: tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corner. Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids. There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this. It's stories and classes like these that inflame the ignorant and send them shrieking for their guns. I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom. That is not the place for it, and it changes the tenor of the room and the schoolhouse. It no longer is a place of safety and learning. When you put guns in the schoolhouse, it becomes nothing more than a prison.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.

No one is telling you that you must have a gun.  Can't we be pro choice on the teacher with a gun issue?

Yes, because the solution to a school shooting is clearly a shootout.

Yes the obvious solution is to hide in the corner of a room and hope he doesn't come in. Brilliant plan GAT_00

Kids are being shot?  Why let's just shoot more kids!  Unless of course you're assuming the teacher has perfect accuracy, which people like you always do.  Somehow the armed citizen is always going to kill the shooter in one shot.

So you'd prefer the children to be slaughtered like cattle? How... humanitarian. Oh course no chance of survival is obviously better than a slim chance. How silly of me!

Why the fark are you completely incapable o ...


2nd Amendment, dikweed. MORE 2nd Amendment. Issue was settled in 1791. Shall Not Be Infringed.How come you're so afraid of the Second Amendment? If you're such a puss, how can you stand to look in the mirror?

Listen up, you pubic scrool educated tater tot ... it's not a gun problem at all. It's a  character problem. Guns are tools. Not Cause. But since you were pubic scrool educated you can't tell difference between the Static Object and what's needed to set the Static Object in motion.

A gun will lie on the table until eternity unmoved and unused until someone puts a finger in the trigger guard and pulls. The  object did not do that. The  object is inert. I doubt you get the point.

But ask yourself this, why in hell are both Congress and State school systems yelling kicking and screaming NO GUARDS FOR YOUR CHILDREN!! IT WILL DAMAGE THEM!! when Congress, the President, every Cabinet Official, every State House, every State Legislator and even shopping malls are guarded by armed response?

Are children disposable in their view? The evidence is crystal clear. No protection for our children, only for the Big Shots.

Ooooo ... I said shot.

Off to be sanctioned by a Union Teacher for me.

BTW - how come the Unions, those 'defenders' of the little guys - are silent on protecting children? Hmmm? But I already know the answer. You're the one who doesn't.
2013-04-07 05:12:47 PM  
1 votes:

sweet-daddy-2: Man, these gun threads get blazing hot .Here's a suggestion for Drew. Take all of the posters, arm them with guns, and turn them loose as in Hunger Games. The last one standing gets a year's supply of beer and a year's TF. He/she could then post to themselves without getting all fired up and having a heart attack.


Actually, a Fark multi-player shooting game would be fabulous!
2013-04-07 05:08:20 PM  
1 votes:
Yes because the best country in the world should 'model' itself from the country it successfully broke chains from.
2013-04-07 05:04:33 PM  
1 votes:

Mambo Bananapatch: GUTSU: GAT_00:
Why the fark are you completely incapable of seeing any solution other than screaming MOAR like a /b/tard?  Gun problem?  MOAR GUNS.  It's like the argument of a 2 year old.

You're the one who thinks leaving children utterly defenseless because "GUNS R BAD" is better than giving them at least a small chance of survival with an armed teacher.

You believe it's preferable for a shooter to go unhindered from class to class, blasting the heads of children than say... let teachers have a pistol. Why you believe that is unknown, maybe you hate guns more than you like children?

You believe it's preferable for psychotic people to have unqualified access to this type of weaponry than, say... to make any efforts to control access to guns. Why you believe that is unknown; maybe you love guns more than you love children?


You're one of those people who don't believe we do background checks, aren't you? As for personal sales? I don't think the government should have a say in how my personal property although I do agree with them that it's illegal to sell to anyone disqualified from buying a firearm in the first place.

But you can believe anything you wish.
2013-04-07 04:56:20 PM  
1 votes:

demaL-demaL-yeH: BayouOtter: I like how you reference Australia here, the place where criminals mass produce guns, and where the gun bans had no significant change to the rates of decline that were there before the bans?

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

While this doesn't prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy.  Furthermore, this highlights the most important point: gun banners promote failed policy regardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them.

Here ya go. Pony up real stats on firearm-related crime.

Hint: I already did, nimrod, and you lie.


Because all other types of crime are OK, as long as guns aren't involved, right?
2013-04-07 04:50:32 PM  
1 votes:

Mambo Bananapatch: GUTSU: GAT_00:
Why the fark are you completely incapable of seeing any solution other than screaming MOAR like a /b/tard?  Gun problem?  MOAR GUNS.  It's like the argument of a 2 year old.

You're the one who thinks leaving children utterly defenseless because "GUNS R BAD" is better than giving them at least a small chance of survival with an armed teacher.

You believe it's preferable for a shooter to go unhindered from class to class, blasting the heads of children than say... let teachers have a pistol. Why you believe that is unknown, maybe you hate guns more than you like children?

You believe it's preferable for psychotic people to have unqualified access to this type of weaponry than, say... to make any efforts to control access to guns. Why you believe that is unknown; maybe you love guns more than you love children?


I'm all for improving the NICS system and related law enforcement database systems such that a run through the NICS is both nearly-instant and comprehensively able to catch people who have committed crimes in places that aren't necessarily efficient at putting that data into the national system.

I'm all for improving the requirements for background checks to require it for all purchases, and making it a free thing through a website. Log on, enter buyer info, run NICS info, and get approved/declined. Require retention of records, too.

I'm all for improving the health care system and requiring it to include mental health evaluations, and the creation of more comprehensive means of treating people with mental issues who are at risk of being violent.

I'm all for the creation of a process whereby citizens denied their right to own firearms for mental health reasons can appeal the findings and have their rights restored.

I'm not for artificial restrictions that won't stop bad behavior in the name of "possibly limiting the damgae done by the criminal."  It's both arbitrary and knee-jerk and doesn't do shiat of good.

While we're on the topic, let's discuss how you would like to improve our mental health system so that we can prevent the 60% of all gun deaths per year (suicides).  How do you propose that we reach out to and help people contemplating suicide? Having been there, I know that's fairly easy to spot and people who are thinking about it communicate a desire to do it and look for help.  Or don't you give a shiat about those people, along with kids killed by abuse and drunk driving, and only about the few who are killed by guns?
2013-04-07 04:46:32 PM  
1 votes:
demaL-demaL-yeH:
Keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill is infringing on your rights?
You must be nucking futs.


The comment was about freedoms, so address it more generally.

BayouOtter: I keep forgetting how murder never happened before the invention of firearms.

Yup. Nucking futs. Making murder easier and the having the means to commit murder readily available does increase the murder rate, nimrod.


Sorry, but a guy with a sword in 1300 is gonna kill me as dead as a guy with a gun in 2013 as dead as a guy with a rock at the dawn of humanity. If anything, technology to prevent death and punish criminals have probably decreased the amount of murder, not to mention its a bit harder to kill women and the infirm because they don't need to be 6'5 hulks to heft a gun.

But whatever.

The reverse is also true: Overall murders on annual basis have dropped almost 25% since the late 1990s gun ban.

I like how you reference Australia here, the place where criminals mass produce guns, and where the gun bans had no significant change to the rates of decline that were there before the bans?

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

While this doesn't prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy.  Furthermore, this highlights the most important point: gun banners promote failed policy regardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them.
2013-04-07 04:27:03 PM  
1 votes:
GAT_00:
I stopped being civil to NRA types a long time ago once I realized they had no respect for me or any position I held.  Why bother treating someone with anything but disdain when you know it's never occurred to them to respect you?  That, and I'm not real big on being nice to people who see kids dying pointlessly and think "Yeah, everything looks good and free here.  Just the world I want to live in."

Might as well back it in and roll back every freedom. Kids won't be dying pointlessly if everybody is confined to their own 10 by 10 cell with food, entertainment, and health care piped in. Extremely safe slavery beats dangerous freedom any day.
2013-04-07 04:16:43 PM  
1 votes:

LordJiro: Clearly, the sensible way to minimize school shooting casualties is NOT to get mentally ill people the help they need, or at least make it harder for the mentally ill to acquire firearms. It's to turn our schools into farking fortresses.

But hey, if preventing a lunatic from acquiring a gun makes ME have to do a little more paperwork before I can add another toy to my collection, we might as well be living in North Korea.


We live in a country where denying people medical care, personal control over their own bodily functions, and blaming everyone else for our problems rather than seeking to improve ourselves is the status quo. We live in a country where we take the short-sited, emotional knee-jerk approach towards solving problems rather than playing the long game, and ending up farking ourselves at every turn for it. We are also a society where our answer to every social ill is to throw money at it for a while, and follow up with absolutely no administration or follow-through.

We have managed to create two systems which are great in theory: medicare and social security. Even though it's worked out so far, what we end up with is once again a failure to accept the long-term needs of such systems and appropriately plan for growth and change of our population.

Maybe if we unfarked ourselves a little bit and spent more time looking at how best to make sure our citizens were able to get educations, how best to ensure businesses were prosperous and healthy while still paying their fair share of taxes, and how to maximize our advantage of selling to other nations rather than becoming relentless consumers, we might be in a different position right now.

As it stands, I fully expect that Each and every time a nutjob commits an atrocious act, it'll be condemned, and they'll find some way to use it to blame inanimate objects instead of for once admitting that we've failed these individuals by ignoring the problems that we should recognize as part of the oft-lauded "social contract".
2013-04-07 04:16:36 PM  
1 votes:

tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corner. Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids. There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this. It's stories and classes like these that inflame the ignorant and send them shrieking for their guns. I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom. That is not the place for it, and it changes the tenor of the room and the schoolhouse. It no longer is a place of safety and learning. When you put guns in the schoolhouse, it becomes nothing more than a prison.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.


It's not about fear, it's about empowering individuals to defend themselves and those around them. From my perspective, you are the one who is living in fear... it looks like you believe that every person is a potential sociopath, that we must keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens just in case, that the police will protect you.
2013-04-07 04:16:33 PM  
1 votes:

demaL-demaL-yeH: MichiganFTL:

Fewer armed households means fewer readily available firearms in households with mentally ill people.


What an incredibly stupid association to make.
I am impressed at the lengths fools will go to in the effort to demonize their fantasy.
2013-04-07 04:10:05 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: GUTSU: In 1991 there were 210 million firearms in the united states. Now there are over 280 million. This far makes up for the decrease in gunownership which by the way, I believe is vastly under reported.

Well by God I'm sure glad you've got all those imagined facts on your side.  I'm totally farking convinced now!


In this political climate, would you answer a phone survey or a door to door survey, and tell them you owned guns? I wouldn't.

Besides, you're just using my comment so you can avoid answering other peoples. But don't worry GAT_00, I'm sure there will be another school shooting soon. You'd like a few hundred more bodies to use as political capital, wouldn't you?
2013-04-07 04:07:37 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: GUTSU: In 1991 there were 210 million firearms in the united states. Now there are over 280 million. This far makes up for the decrease in gunownership which by the way, I believe is vastly under reported.

Well by God I'm sure glad you've got all those imagined facts on your side.  I'm totally farking convinced now!


Once again showing GAT_00's ability to be well-reasoned and able to discuss things in a pleasant, well-informed manner. Is there ever a time when you're willing to discuss and NOT attack the other side?
2013-04-07 03:55:13 PM  
1 votes:
Lets just do away with schools all together. Spend education money on high-speed internet connections and laptops and classrooms can just be skype-like chatrooms of any size.

/de-centralize, man
2013-04-07 03:52:11 PM  
1 votes:

knbwhite: Can't we be pro choice on the teacher with a gun issue?


Pro-Choice is only cool with liberals when it involves abortion. Other choice that they deem unsatisfactory is not allowed - such as large sodas, CCW, salt, etc.

It's the same tired attitude that rubs people the wrong way - "We know better than you what is good for you". Suggest otherwise and you get branded a "nut", while they pack their kids away to private schools that have armed security or at least cost enough money to keep most of the "problem" kids away that might cause an issue.
2013-04-07 03:50:14 PM  
1 votes:
MichiganFTL:
actually, haven't murders decreased as guns have increased over the past 15 years?


Shhh, don't ruin his dreams of being right.
2013-04-07 03:47:30 PM  
1 votes:

tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corner. Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids. There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this. It's stories and classes like these that inflame the ignorant and send them shrieking for their guns. I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom. That is not the place for it, and it changes the tenor of the room and the schoolhouse. It no longer is a place of safety and learning. When you put guns in the schoolhouse, it becomes nothing more than a prison.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.


Sounds like you're the one living in fear.
2013-04-07 03:47:06 PM  
1 votes:

noitsnot: GUTSU: GAT_00: GUTSU: GAT_00: knbwhite: tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corn

So you'd prefer the children to be slaughtered like cattle? How... humanitarian. Oh course no chance of survival is obviously better than a slim chance. How silly of me!

Hey Dummy - They don't use guns to slaughter cattle. How about you go study up and come back when you what you are talking about?

Making such a obvious blunder like this pretty much invalidates everything you've ever posted.


he's a human, not a dummy. I haven't met a dummy, doll, or mannequin that's posted on fark, so you're blunder in identification invalidates your post.
2013-04-07 03:45:15 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: MichiganFTL: yes, if that person does not follow any of the basic rules of firearms.

How many news stories of Responsible Gun Owners shooting themselves or their kids do you want me to link here?  And let's just pretend that the gun kept by the teacher will never be stolen and then used for a school shooting.  Why bother with acquisition and transportation?  You've got a gun sitting right there.


unfortunately there aren't news stories for the 350 million guns in the US this year that are handled responsibly and don't injure anyone, or I'd link those. Maybe, like CCW users, these people had to take training and continuing education classes, there'd be less chance? Yes, there are stupid people who do things with guns, but just like drunk drivers, we don't ban cars from bars to keep people safe. The VAST majority treat firearms with proper respect, but you don't hear about it.

How often do people with a CCW have their gun stolen and taken on a shooting spree? And there's more CCW holders than teachers in this country.
2013-04-07 03:45:02 PM  
1 votes:
GAT_00:
Why the fark are you completely incapable of seeing any solution other than screaming MOAR like a /b/tard?  Gun problem?  MOAR GUNS.  It's like the argument of a 2 year old.

You're the one who thinks leaving children utterly defenseless because "GUNS R BAD" is better than giving them at least a small chance of survival with an armed teacher.

You believe it's preferable for a shooter to go unhindered from class to class, blasting the heads of children than say... let teachers have a pistol. Why you believe that is unknown, maybe you hate guns more than you like children?
2013-04-07 03:42:11 PM  
1 votes:

GUTSU: GAT_00: GUTSU: GAT_00: knbwhite: tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corn

So you'd prefer the children to be slaughtered like cattle? How... humanitarian. Oh course no chance of survival is obviously better than a slim chance. How silly of me!


Hey Dummy - They don't use guns to slaughter cattle. How about you go study up and come back when you what you are talking about?

Making such a obvious blunder like this pretty much invalidates everything you've ever posted.
2013-04-07 03:24:18 PM  
1 votes:
This is simple. More gun free zone signs, we extend the area outside schools that are gun free further and put up more signs. This new law will stop shooters from entering the zone and if they miss the first sign, they'll surely see more and come to their senses.
2013-04-07 03:13:36 PM  
1 votes:

tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corner. Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids. There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this. It's stories and classes like these that inflame the ignorant and send them shrieking for their guns. I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom. That is not the place for it, and it changes the tenor of the room and the schoolhouse. It no longer is a place of safety and learning. When you put guns in the schoolhouse, it becomes nothing more than a prison.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.


No one is telling you that you must have a gun.  Can't we be pro choice on the teacher with a gun issue?
2013-04-07 03:11:23 PM  
1 votes:

jehovahs witness protection: Yep. The people who suck diane feinstein's dick are already here


I'm sure they'll extol her knowledge on subjects she deems intelligent enough to legislate.

Oh, she said this week something to the effect: "If video game makers don't regulate themselves on violence and shooting, we'll do it for them."

Are threats, ignorance and some perverted sense of superiority the only thing this women has going for her?
2013-04-07 03:10:46 PM  
1 votes:

12349876: BarkingUnicorn: , a gun should be on every teacher's hip.

ready to be taken by a kid with a single suckerpunch.


^ stupid people believe this is how the world works
2013-04-07 03:08:29 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: "Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.

What kind of interpersonal skill is shooting someone?

The best kind, if someone's pointing a gun at you.

Only a nutjob would think killing someone to be a useful skill that a teacher should cultivate.


I think knowing how to defend yourself is a skill everyone in every profession should cultivate.  I guess teaching a 55-yo, 90-lb school librarian how to box would be an option, but I'm skeptical.

I'm a nutjob, I guess.
2013-04-07 03:06:08 PM  
1 votes:
Yep. The people who suck diane feinstein's dick are already here.
2013-04-07 03:04:34 PM  
1 votes:

doglover: BarkingUnicorn: Ideally, from a purely defensive perspective, a gun should be on every teacher's hip.

But why are we hardening schools against freak accidents like spree shootings. Even though they're increasing in number a little bit, they're still super rare and there's so many other important issues that need taken care of before we go full Spartan and just give all the kids spears and leave them outside in the nude for seven years to harden up.

Getting doglover set up with a nice advisory gig with benefits for example, would be a great problem for the government to tackle.


Because the handful of kids, tragically, killed once in a blue moon at a school is worse than the thousands of inner-city shootings that occur every year.  It's another fringe emotional issue intended to distract.
2013-04-07 02:17:27 PM  
1 votes:
Subby. Wtf are you taking about? Why would they want to learn teaching methods used in Europe?
2013-04-07 02:07:20 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: "Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.

What kind of interpersonal skill is shooting someone?


The best kind, if someone's pointing a gun at you.
2013-04-07 01:57:13 PM  
1 votes:

tudorgurl: There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids.



My old physics teacher was a gun lover. I think he'd have liked to have his gun in the classroom. He was a hoot. Really super responsible, but very old school on safety regs. He let us in the AP class play with liquid nitrogen and live Tesla coils. Fun fun fun.
2013-04-07 01:19:24 PM  
1 votes:
"Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.
 
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