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(Opposing Views)   More than 700 educators from one particular state decided to better themselves this weekend. Did they do it by a.) Taking advanced math classes, b.) Researching teaching methods utilized in Europe, or c.) Attending a free gun class? Hint: Texas   (opposingviews.com) divider line 187
    More: Interesting, Texas, teachers, performing arts center, Dallas Morning News, Dallas-Fort Worth, Navy SEAL Chris Kyle  
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2273 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Apr 2013 at 2:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-07 06:13:06 PM
ReverendJynxed:

If they're from Texas, shouldn't they already know how to use a gun? Isn't it state law?

I think Texas hospitals are required to euthanize newborns who can't demonstrate firearms proficiency.
 
2013-04-07 06:22:58 PM
Teachers taking a concealed firearms course. It's like reading the news from some idiotic alien planet.
 
2013-04-07 06:34:26 PM

BayouOtter: Civil_War2_Time: Fark liberals @ top-of-the-hour: "The War on Drugs was a complete failure. Legalize weed at the very least, and stop this insanity!!! And, DON'T tell me what I can and can't do in my own home or bedroom!"
Fark liberals @ botton-of-the-hour: "We NEED a War on Guns!!! There are a bunch of mentally ill people that, if given access to them, will cause much harm to themselves and/or others!!! The Feds should restrict your access to them, so it will then be much harder to find one!"

Liberals divide by zero in every Fark gun thread.

I'm a liberal, and think it'd be peachy keen if people could get blazed on whatever and defend themselves with firearms. Why can't it be both?


Are you sure you're not confusing liberal with libertarian?
 
2013-04-07 06:35:44 PM
Why don't we just give in completely to the NRA and secure all schools like maximum security prisons?  That's where we're heading with this.
 
2013-04-07 06:37:50 PM

SN1987a goes boom: Why don't we just give in completely to the NRA and secure all schools like maximum security prisons?  That's where we're heading with this.


Calm down. We're just having a national conversation in the wake of the Newtown shooting. Apparently all options are on the table.
 
2013-04-07 06:48:52 PM

Lord Summerisle: Teachers taking a concealed firearms course. It's like reading the news from some idiotic alien planet.


Why?
 
2013-04-07 06:49:31 PM

noitsnot: Hey Dummy - They don't use guns to slaughter cattle. How about you go study up and come back when you what you are talking about?


They don't use guns to slaughter cattle, really?
media.qcsupply.com
Then what's this?  Besides, I'm pretty sure Gutsu was referring more to the calm application of lethal force because it's not a fight, it's a slaughter, until the people have the means to resist effectively.
 
2013-04-07 06:51:32 PM

SN1987a goes boom: Why don't we just give in completely to the NRA and secure all schools like maximum security prisons?  That's where we're heading with this.


Both sides are idiots arguing who gets to man the towers.
 
2013-04-07 07:16:37 PM

tudorgurl: find the key to the gun safe


You duct tape it between your shoulder blades.

Jeez, dude. Watch a movie.
 
2013-04-07 07:45:26 PM
Well, this is it.  The thread that has convinced me to turn in my weapons.  I'll just be a defenseless victim, but people will like me more.  I don't know it I'll even be able to sleep tonight, just knowing that I have a gun safe with pistols, rifles and ammo in it.

*shudder*
 
2013-04-07 07:49:42 PM

tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corner. Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids. There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this. It's stories and classes like these that inflame the ignorant and send them shrieking for their guns. I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom. That is not the place for it, and it changes the tenor of the room and the schoolhouse. It no longer is a place of safety and learning. When you put guns in the schoolhouse, it becomes nothing more than a prison.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.


 Actually one of my teachers *was* a solider.

Nobody is forcing you to carry a gun, but there are people who would prefer to do so.

 Many of us grew up in houses with guns. It was still considered a place of safety and love that we fondly go back to visit during holidays.

 I am not sure why you think another person having a gun turns the place where they are at into an unsafe prison full of fear. You seem to live in more fear then the people you "feel sorry for". :\
 
2013-04-07 07:54:05 PM
Knowing that the Teachers Union rank-and-file is armed to the teeth and quite proficient on the range will help those contract negotiations speed up, too.   And don't even think about taking more education money out of the budget.
 
2013-04-07 08:08:56 PM

GAT_00: GUTSU: GAT_00: knbwhite: tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corner. Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids. There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this. It's stories and classes like these that inflame the ignorant and send them shrieking for their guns. I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom. That is not the place for it, and it changes the tenor of the room and the schoolhouse. It no longer is a place of safety and learning. When you put guns in the schoolhouse, it becomes nothing more than a prison.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.

No one is telling you that you must have a gun.  Can't we be pro choice on the teacher with a gun issue?

Yes, because the solution to a school shooting is clearly a shootout.

Yes the obvious solution is to hide in the corner of a room and hope he doesn't come in. Brilliant plan GAT_00

Kids are being shot?  Why let's just shoot more kids!  Unless of course you're assuming the teacher has perfect accuracy, which people like you always do.  Somehow the armed citizen is always going to kill the shooter in one shot.


Actually, usually the first shot, if it misses, causes the would be spree killer to put a bullet through their own head.

 There are many news stories out there and even more stories about where people just pulling out a gun is enough to defuse the situation.

This is all well documented. I cannot surmise a logical reason why you are ignoring it, except that it doesn't fit with your world view, so facts be damned.

/sigh.
 
2013-04-07 08:11:03 PM

cuzsis: Actually one of my teachers *was* a solider.


I served with many who went on to become teachers. Not one of them sees a
need for or has any desire to have a firearm at school.

/And especially not in other people's hands.
 
2013-04-07 08:11:16 PM
tudorgurl:  I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom.

Matrix-style kung fu?
 
2013-04-07 08:21:34 PM

Firethorn: noitsnot: Hey Dummy - They don't use guns to slaughter cattle. How about you go study up and come back when you what you are talking about?

They don't use guns to slaughter cattle, really?
[media.qcsupply.com image 370x370]
Then what's this?  Besides, I'm pretty sure Gutsu was referring more to the calm application of lethal force because it's not a fight, it's a slaughter, until the people have the means to resist effectively.


HOLY SH*T THEY USE GUNS TO MAKE COOKIES

c.shld.net
 
2013-04-07 08:23:37 PM

Abox: The derp on both sides of this issue is astounding.  'Background checks only hurt law abiding citizens' on one side and 'armed school personnel can't stop a shooter' on the other.


Just about everyone I know (minus the occasional crazy 1% and you get those everywhere) are completely *for* background checks. And wish the gov't made them better available to the average person.

/just throwing that out there, because this seems to be a common thought and I haven't seen it hold up to actual people.
 
2013-04-07 08:49:33 PM

ThatGuyGreg: Is it really just one class? Isn't that somewhat useless, if not worse than nothing, without ongoing instruction, or at least practice?


I dunno, what are they trying to learn in the class?  The standard instructional portion regarding the legal underpinnings of CCP for certification takes about eight to ten hours.  If you want to actually get a license, you also have to demonstrate proficiency on a range, witnessed by a certified instructor.  That can take significantly longer depending how familiar you are with the mechanical aspects of operating a pistol -- you have to keep trying until you actually pass, which may require a lot of training or very little.

Ongoing instruction is a license renewal exam every 5 or 10 years, depending on your state.  Like a driver's license, except that you actually have to re-take the test every time.

What, exactly, are you thinking they're going to lose without further instruction than that?  It's, again, roughly the same as the certification process to drive a car in the US, which makes sense due to the danger inherent in the equipment being similar.  (Well, cars are a bit more dangerous, realistically, but close enough).
 
2013-04-07 08:55:08 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: cuzsis: Actually one of my teachers *was* a solider.

I served with many who went on to become teachers. Not one of them sees a
need for or has any desire to have a firearm at school.

/And especially not in other people's hands.


Always open to other opinions of course. I take it they have plans to keep their schools safe in the event of a shooter? And those plans *don't* involve locking doors and huddling in a corner (which has failed spectacularly in the past and resulted in lots of dead students.)

 Prevention would be good of course, with better mental health work ect... But you still want to plan for the actual event (kind of like, you do everything to prevent a fire, but you still have fire sprinklers in case a fire starts anyway.)

 Personally I think armed security guards would be better, but I can understand a teacher or two who wants to do a CCW (Utah already does this and has for over a decade I believe).

 The reason most people turn to guns to stop guns, is that's generally the only thing that has been proven to be successful in the long term. This is why our cops, soldiers and ect... all carry guns.

 Personally I'm not particular. If it results in the least amount of dead innocent victims I don't care if you serve the would be spree killer a bowl of lucky charms. If that works, great! Stock lucky charms in every classroom!
 
2013-04-07 09:05:30 PM
Elementary school principal Lolita Looney

OMG...  Somewhere out there is a elementary school principal named Lolita Looney.
 
2013-04-07 09:13:08 PM

knbwhite: cbuhler: tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corner. Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids. There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this. It's stories and classes like these that inflame the ignorant and send them shrieking for their guns. I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom. That is not the place for it, and it changes the tenor of the room and the schoolhouse. It no longer is a place of safety and learning. When you put guns in the schoolhouse, it becomes nothing more than a prison.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.

I agree with you almost completely.  I personally think that teachers need to be trained to teach, cops need to be trained to protect.   I can see having a cop on duty during school hours, many schools already do, but lets not arm the teachers.  Now if a teacher wants to learn to shoot, I think that's great. It's a great hobby that I enjoy myself, but it needs to stay a hobby and not brought to school.

No one would expect a cop to be able to teach reading to a dyslexic student, we shouldn't expect teachers to play cop either.

How about being pro choice on teachers with guns?  Also, if we can't have police in every school consider this; when seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

/please grade my semicolon use if you respond
//here is a spare c ...


I'll leave the semicolon grading to TudorGirl, she's better qualified.

I am not totally against choice for teachers I just don't think it's the best idea.  I am in Texas, work for a school, and know a lot of teachers.   Quite a few teachers around here do shoot, hunt, etc, but I don't think that any of them being armed would really accomplish much.

What I'm getting at more than anything is that the way most teachers think, how they work in the classroom, would be harmed if they had to worry about someone armed too.  Most teachers try to make their classroom a learning environment, a safe haven.  Adding guns to that would upset that environment for some students just the same as loud music or flashing lights would.  Most students would probably be indifferent to a gun in the room,  that have that at home now, but there will be some that will be uncomfortable and some that will be just too interested.  That's what would mess up the learning environment.   A teacher's job is to get through to all of his/her students and help them learn something.  Doing anything that can disrupt the class is probably not the best idea.
 
2013-04-07 09:38:38 PM
I don't have a problem with this.

We want teachers to be ignorant about guns? Really?
 
Rat
2013-04-07 09:38:50 PM

tudorgurl: There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.


And that's exactly why you just conceal carry it on your hip.

©
 
2013-04-07 09:42:06 PM

GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: "Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.

What kind of interpersonal skill is shooting someone?

The best kind, if someone's pointing a gun at you.

Only a nutjob would think killing someone to be a useful skill that a teacher should cultivate.


What, you think it would be more useful to cultivate being a helpless victim and dying?
 
2013-04-07 09:45:54 PM

Maul555: Elementary school principal Lolita Looney

OMG...  Somewhere out there is a elementary school principal named Lolita Looney.


And she works at Wood Elementary School

bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com
 
2013-04-07 09:54:02 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Oh, look, it's this thread again.
Again.
Again.

The usual nimrods will claim that adding more firearms to a place where they shouldn't be is a better solution than keeping firearms out of the hands of mentally ill people in the first place. Because 2nd Ammendment[sic].

/I wonder how many Texas school staff members will shoot themselves or somebody else this time around.


Odd isn't it that it has been illegal for a felon, drug addict, lunatic or wife beater to even touch gun since 1968. Yet they still manage to find a way to shoot people. Maybe we could make it double illegal and that would work. What is the line about expecting the same action to give different results?
 
2013-04-07 10:09:33 PM

machodonkeywrestler: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: "Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.

What kind of interpersonal skill is shooting someone?

The best kind, if someone's pointing a gun at you.

Only a nutjob would think killing someone to be a useful skill that a teacher should cultivate.

Your gun rhetoric is sounding akin to the teabaggers' rationalization and fear-mongering. I would watch out if I were you.


Actually it sounds like the Liberals version of the Far Right fringe's "Abstinence Only" sex ed. Just pretend you are right and if you really, really want it bad enough reality it will go away.
 
2013-04-07 11:11:53 PM
I personally love that subby and people like him hate Texas so much.  It means you freaks won't move here and mess things up like you did your own states.  ; )
 
2013-04-07 11:17:40 PM

ex-nuke: Odd isn't it that it has been illegal for a felon, drug addict, lunatic or wife beater to even touch gun since 1968. Yet they still manage to find a way to shoot people. Maybe we could make it double illegal and that would work. What is the line about expecting the same action to give different results?


But...we have to do SOMETHING!!!  Even if it has nothing to do with the problem and doesn't have a snowball's chance of working.
 
2013-04-07 11:46:35 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Maul555: Elementary school principal Lolita Looney

OMG...  Somewhere out there is a elementary school principal named Lolita Looney.

And she works at Wood Elementary School

[bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com image 360x240]


omg, this is all just too much for me to handle...
 
2013-04-08 12:27:06 AM

noitsnot: HOLY SH*T THEY USE GUNS TO MAKE COOKIES

[c.shld.net image 315x315]


Missed the 'besides' part, didn't you?  Of course, I posted a captive bolt pistol that uses .22 rounds.  Except for the whole limited to 2" of range or so, it's a single shot gun.  It's also used explicitly to kill things.
 
2013-04-08 12:53:35 AM

ex-nuke: demaL-demaL-yeH: Oh, look, it's this thread again.
Again.
Again.

The usual nimrods will claim that adding more firearms to a place where they shouldn't be is a better solution than keeping firearms out of the hands of mentally ill people in the first place. Because 2nd Ammendment[sic].

/I wonder how many Texas school staff members will shoot themselves or somebody else this time around.

Odd isn't it that it has been illegal for a felon, drug addict, lunatic or wife beater to even touch gun since 1968. Yet they still manage to find a way to shoot people. Maybe we could make it double illegal and that would work. What is the line about expecting the same action to give different results?


But, but, doing a real background check on every transfer is a ban.
But, but, making sure that the mentally ill are in the database is bad.
But, but making a database in the first place is bad.
But, but tyranny.


Have I proposed doing more of the same, motorboat?
Take a look upthread and get back to me.
It's time to restore the responsibilities that go with the right to bear arms, the way the Founders explicitly intended.

/Better yet, call me a liberal, so I can laugh in your sputtering face.
 
2013-04-08 12:56:44 AM

cuzsis: demaL-demaL-yeH: cuzsis: Actually one of my teachers *was* a solider.

I served with many who went on to become teachers. Not one of them sees a
need for or has any desire to have a firearm at school.

/And especially not in other people's hands.

Always open to other opinions of course. I take it they have plans to keep their schools safe in the event of a shooter? And those plans *don't* involve locking doors and huddling in a corner (which has failed spectacularly in the past and resulted in lots of dead students.)

 Prevention would be good of course, with better mental health work ect... But you still want to plan for the actual event (kind of like, you do everything to prevent a fire, but you still have fire sprinklers in case a fire starts anyway.)

 Personally I think armed security guards would be better, but I can understand a teacher or two who wants to do a CCW (Utah already does this and has for over a decade I believe).

 The reason most people turn to guns to stop guns, is that's generally the only thing that has been proven to be successful in the long term. This is why our cops, soldiers and ect... all carry guns.

 Personally I'm not particular. If it results in the least amount of dead innocent victims I don't care if you serve the would be spree killer a bowl of lucky charms. If that works, great! Stock lucky charms in every classroom!


And Tucson implemented the school resource officer program (with TPD cops) back in 1962.
Which, by the way, was item #18 on the president's list of actions that the derpers keep telling me are unconstitutional.
 
2013-04-08 01:11:52 AM

Firethorn: noitsnot: HOLY SH*T THEY USE GUNS TO MAKE COOKIES

[c.shld.net image 315x315]

Missed the 'besides' part, didn't you?  Of course, I posted a captive bolt pistol that uses .22 rounds.  Except for the whole limited to 2" of range or so, it's a single shot gun.  It's also used explicitly to kill things.


OMG THEY USE GUNS TO SHOOT HOUSES TOGETHER

www.icanfixupmyhome.com
EVERYTHING IS DONE USING GUNS - HOW COULD I HAVE BEEN SO WRONG!!!!!!
 
2013-04-08 03:39:02 AM
My high school had a rifle team and a range in the basement. The gym teacher/football/rifle team coach/WWII vet was the NRA certified instructor.

The local boy scouts, ROTC, and even private citizens were also able to use the range.

Nobody was ever shot there.


/I come from another time
//Get off my lawn
 
2013-04-08 06:49:53 AM
People who think that "Gun Free Zones" are a GOOD thing need to PROVE it...post your full name and address. If you think that announcing to everyone that you are unarmed / unprotected is good, then DO IT already.

 
If you are not willing to let EVERYONE know your home is a "Gun Free Zone" (just like we do with our schools) then shut your hypocritical mouth, and let the adults have a grown up conversation.
 
2013-04-08 08:59:02 AM

socoloco: I don't have a problem with this.

We want teachers to be ignorant about guns? Really?


Quite obviously, there are some who fear knowledge. Nothing new.
You know who else denies knowledge to women, especially teachers?
 
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