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(Opposing Views)   More than 700 educators from one particular state decided to better themselves this weekend. Did they do it by a.) Taking advanced math classes, b.) Researching teaching methods utilized in Europe, or c.) Attending a free gun class? Hint: Texas   (opposingviews.com) divider line 187
    More: Interesting, Texas, teachers, performing arts center, Dallas Morning News, Dallas-Fort Worth, Navy SEAL Chris Kyle  
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2274 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Apr 2013 at 2:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-07 03:40:08 PM
"tudor" the class isn't required. I think a gun in your hands would be a bigger danger to you thant the assailant.The "teacher" should be licensed  and allowed to carry the weapon,henceforth conceal and carry.ohh skip the "t"  in than. It's a shame that responsible students aren;t allowed to conceal and carry.Got a couple of boys in a little hick town where they know how to defend themselves without hurting as many kids  as the guy with a plan to. God LOVES TEXAS..
 
2013-04-07 03:40:44 PM

MichiganFTL: yes, if that person does not follow any of the basic rules of firearms.


How many news stories of Responsible Gun Owners shooting themselves or their kids do you want me to link here?  And let's just pretend that the gun kept by the teacher will never be stolen and then used for a school shooting.  Why bother with acquisition and transportation?  You've got a gun sitting right there.
 
2013-04-07 03:42:11 PM

GUTSU: GAT_00: GUTSU: GAT_00: knbwhite: tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corn

So you'd prefer the children to be slaughtered like cattle? How... humanitarian. Oh course no chance of survival is obviously better than a slim chance. How silly of me!


Hey Dummy - They don't use guns to slaughter cattle. How about you go study up and come back when you what you are talking about?

Making such a obvious blunder like this pretty much invalidates everything you've ever posted.
 
2013-04-07 03:42:57 PM

12349876: BarkingUnicorn: , a gun should be on every teacher's hip.

ready to be taken by a kid with a single suckerpunch.


Keep truncating comments until you get what you want.
 
2013-04-07 03:45:02 PM
GAT_00:
Why the fark are you completely incapable of seeing any solution other than screaming MOAR like a /b/tard?  Gun problem?  MOAR GUNS.  It's like the argument of a 2 year old.

You're the one who thinks leaving children utterly defenseless because "GUNS R BAD" is better than giving them at least a small chance of survival with an armed teacher.

You believe it's preferable for a shooter to go unhindered from class to class, blasting the heads of children than say... let teachers have a pistol. Why you believe that is unknown, maybe you hate guns more than you like children?
 
2013-04-07 03:45:15 PM

GAT_00: MichiganFTL: yes, if that person does not follow any of the basic rules of firearms.

How many news stories of Responsible Gun Owners shooting themselves or their kids do you want me to link here?  And let's just pretend that the gun kept by the teacher will never be stolen and then used for a school shooting.  Why bother with acquisition and transportation?  You've got a gun sitting right there.


unfortunately there aren't news stories for the 350 million guns in the US this year that are handled responsibly and don't injure anyone, or I'd link those. Maybe, like CCW users, these people had to take training and continuing education classes, there'd be less chance? Yes, there are stupid people who do things with guns, but just like drunk drivers, we don't ban cars from bars to keep people safe. The VAST majority treat firearms with proper respect, but you don't hear about it.

How often do people with a CCW have their gun stolen and taken on a shooting spree? And there's more CCW holders than teachers in this country.
 
2013-04-07 03:45:45 PM

GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: "Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.

What kind of interpersonal skill is shooting someone?

The best kind, if someone's pointing a gun at you.

Only a nutjob would think killing someone to be a useful skill that a teacher should cultivate.


I agree. This is a great way to smoke out nutjobs and get them out of classrooms.  If I was principal and saw, "gun safety certified" on a teacher's resume', I'd choose the other resume' with all its misspellings.
 
2013-04-07 03:46:32 PM

RickN99: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: "Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.

What kind of interpersonal skill is shooting someone?

The best kind, if someone's pointing a gun at you.

Only a nutjob would think killing someone to be a useful skill that a teacher should cultivate.

I think knowing how to defend yourself is a skill everyone in every profession should cultivate.  I guess teaching a 55-yo, 90-lb school librarian how to box would be an option, but I'm skeptical.

I'm a nutjob, I guess.


Defend themselves against what exactly? Please tell us more about this fantastical world where school librarians experience credible and even probable threat of being assaulted or murdered.

The incidence of mental health disorders are, and always will be, dispersed throughout society. Throw millions of firearms into the mix and the probability of homicide approaches levels that are statistically likely. More guns, more murder. Period.
 
2013-04-07 03:47:06 PM

noitsnot: GUTSU: GAT_00: GUTSU: GAT_00: knbwhite: tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corn

So you'd prefer the children to be slaughtered like cattle? How... humanitarian. Oh course no chance of survival is obviously better than a slim chance. How silly of me!

Hey Dummy - They don't use guns to slaughter cattle. How about you go study up and come back when you what you are talking about?

Making such a obvious blunder like this pretty much invalidates everything you've ever posted.


he's a human, not a dummy. I haven't met a dummy, doll, or mannequin that's posted on fark, so you're blunder in identification invalidates your post.
 
2013-04-07 03:47:27 PM

noitsnot: GUTSU: GAT_00: GUTSU: GAT_00: knbwhite: tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corn

So you'd prefer the children to be slaughtered like cattle? How... humanitarian. Oh course no chance of survival is obviously better than a slim chance. How silly of me!

Hey Dummy - They don't use guns to slaughter cattle. How about you go study up and come back when you what you are talking about?

Making such a obvious blunder like this pretty much invalidates everything you've ever posted.


I live in the country, and I assure you people shoot cattle when they want them slaughtered. Unless you think every rural farmer sends their cows off to a slaughter house.
 
2013-04-07 03:47:30 PM

tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corner. Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids. There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this. It's stories and classes like these that inflame the ignorant and send them shrieking for their guns. I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom. That is not the place for it, and it changes the tenor of the room and the schoolhouse. It no longer is a place of safety and learning. When you put guns in the schoolhouse, it becomes nothing more than a prison.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.


Sounds like you're the one living in fear.
 
2013-04-07 03:47:58 PM
Oh, look, it's this thread again.
Again.
Again.

The usual nimrods will claim that adding more firearms to a place where they shouldn't be is a better solution than keeping firearms out of the hands of mentally ill people in the first place. Because 2nd Ammendment[sic].

/I wonder how many Texas school staff members will shoot themselves or somebody else this time around.
 
2013-04-07 03:48:30 PM

tylerdurden217: RickN99: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: "Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.

What kind of interpersonal skill is shooting someone?

The best kind, if someone's pointing a gun at you.

Only a nutjob would think killing someone to be a useful skill that a teacher should cultivate.

I think knowing how to defend yourself is a skill everyone in every profession should cultivate.  I guess teaching a 55-yo, 90-lb school librarian how to box would be an option, but I'm skeptical.

I'm a nutjob, I guess.

Defend themselves against what exactly? Please tell us more about this fantastical world where school librarians experience credible and even probable threat of being assaulted or murdered.

The incidence of mental health disorders are, and always will be, dispersed throughout society. Throw millions of firearms into the mix and the probability of homicide approaches levels that are statistically likely. More guns, more murder. Period.


actually, haven't murders decreased as guns have increased over the past 15 years?
 
2013-04-07 03:50:14 PM
MichiganFTL:
actually, haven't murders decreased as guns have increased over the past 15 years?


Shhh, don't ruin his dreams of being right.
 
2013-04-07 03:51:31 PM

Yogimus: 12349876: BarkingUnicorn: , a gun should be on every teacher's hip.

ready to be taken by a kid with a single suckerpunch.

^ stupid people believe this is how the world works


How did youdisarm your teachers?
 
2013-04-07 03:51:57 PM

tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corner. Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids. There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this. It's stories and classes like these that inflame the ignorant and send them shrieking for their guns. I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom. That is not the place for it, and it changes the tenor of the room and the schoolhouse. It no longer is a place of safety and learning. When you put guns in the schoolhouse, it becomes nothing more than a prison.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.


Thank you thank you thank you. THIS to infinity.
 
2013-04-07 03:52:11 PM

knbwhite: Can't we be pro choice on the teacher with a gun issue?


Pro-Choice is only cool with liberals when it involves abortion. Other choice that they deem unsatisfactory is not allowed - such as large sodas, CCW, salt, etc.

It's the same tired attitude that rubs people the wrong way - "We know better than you what is good for you". Suggest otherwise and you get branded a "nut", while they pack their kids away to private schools that have armed security or at least cost enough money to keep most of the "problem" kids away that might cause an issue.
 
2013-04-07 03:52:25 PM

MichiganFTL: tylerdurden217: RickN99: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: "Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.

What kind of interpersonal skill is shooting someone?

The best kind, if someone's pointing a gun at you.

Only a nutjob would think killing someone to be a useful skill that a teacher should cultivate.

I think knowing how to defend yourself is a skill everyone in every profession should cultivate.  I guess teaching a 55-yo, 90-lb school librarian how to box would be an option, but I'm skeptical.

I'm a nutjob, I guess.

Defend themselves against what exactly? Please tell us more about this fantastical world where school librarians experience credible and even probable threat of being assaulted or murdered.

The incidence of mental health disorders are, and always will be, dispersed throughout society. Throw millions of firearms into the mix and the probability of homicide approaches levels that are statistically likely. More guns, more murder. Period.

actually, haven't murders decreased as guns have increased over the past 15 years?


Try matching that against the decrease in percentage of households with firearms and get back to me, troll.
 
2013-04-07 03:54:21 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: MichiganFTL: tylerdurden217: RickN99: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: "Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.

What kind of interpersonal skill is shooting someone?

The best kind, if someone's pointing a gun at you.

Only a nutjob would think killing someone to be a useful skill that a teacher should cultivate.

I think knowing how to defend yourself is a skill everyone in every profession should cultivate.  I guess teaching a 55-yo, 90-lb school librarian how to box would be an option, but I'm skeptical.

I'm a nutjob, I guess.

Defend themselves against what exactly? Please tell us more about this fantastical world where school librarians experience credible and even probable threat of being assaulted or murdered.

The incidence of mental health disorders are, and always will be, dispersed throughout society. Throw millions of firearms into the mix and the probability of homicide approaches levels that are statistically likely. More guns, more murder. Period.

actually, haven't murders decreased as guns have increased over the past 15 years?

Try matching that against the decrease in percentage of households with firearms and get back to me, troll.


keep moving the goalposts. He said more guns = more murder, I disproved that. You have to move goalposts. Standard tactic. So you'll still concede that with more guns in the hands of less households, we have less murder? So does that mean we've disarmed a good amount of bad people already?
 
2013-04-07 03:55:13 PM
Lets just do away with schools all together. Spend education money on high-speed internet connections and laptops and classrooms can just be skype-like chatrooms of any size.

/de-centralize, man
 
2013-04-07 03:57:29 PM
Self reported gun ownership in us is highest in 20 years

So, according to Gallup, we have more guns in the us than 20 years ago, more households with guns than in 20 years and a murder rate on the decline.

Where shall we move the goalposts next?
 
2013-04-07 03:57:30 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: MichiganFTL: tylerdurden217: RickN99: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: "Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.

What kind of interpersonal skill is shooting someone?

The best kind, if someone's pointing a gun at you.

Only a nutjob would think killing someone to be a useful skill that a teacher should cultivate.

I think knowing how to defend yourself is a skill everyone in every profession should cultivate.  I guess teaching a 55-yo, 90-lb school librarian how to box would be an option, but I'm skeptical.

I'm a nutjob, I guess.

Defend themselves against what exactly? Please tell us more about this fantastical world where school librarians experience credible and even probable threat of being assaulted or murdered.

The incidence of mental health disorders are, and always will be, dispersed throughout society. Throw millions of firearms into the mix and the probability of homicide approaches levels that are statistically likely. More guns, more murder. Period.

actually, haven't murders decreased as guns have increased over the past 15 years?

Try matching that against the decrease in percentage of households with firearms and get back to me, troll.


In 1991 there were 210 million firearms in the united states. Now there are over 280 million. This far makes up for the decrease in gunownership which by the way, I believe is vastly under reported.
 
2013-04-07 04:03:30 PM
Clearly, the sensible way to minimize school shooting casualties is NOT to get mentally ill people the help they need, or at least make it harder for the mentally ill to acquire firearms. It's to turn our schools into farking fortresses.

But hey, if preventing a lunatic from acquiring a gun makes ME have to do a little more paperwork before I can add another toy to my collection, we might as well be living in North Korea.
 
2013-04-07 04:03:37 PM

MichiganFTL: The incidence of mental health disorders are, and always will be, dispersed throughout society. Throw millions of firearms into the mix and the probability of homicide approaches levels that are statistically likely. More guns, more murder. Period.

actually, haven't murders decreased as guns have increased over the past 15 years?

Try matching that against the decrease in percentage of households with firearms and get back to me, troll.

keep moving the goalposts. He said more guns = more murder, I disproved that. You have to move goalposts. Standard tactic. So you'll still concede that with more guns in the hands of less households, we have less murder? So does that mean we've disarmed a good amount of bad people already?


Moving goalposts? They haven't changed position. Try reading comprehension.

Fewer armed households means fewer readily available firearms in households with mentally ill people.
 
2013-04-07 04:04:23 PM

BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: "Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.

What kind of interpersonal skill is shooting someone?

The best kind, if someone's pointing a gun at you.

Only a nutjob would think killing someone to be a useful skill that a teacher should cultivate.

I agree. This is a great way to smoke out nutjobs and get them out of classrooms.  If I was principal and saw, "gun safety certified" on a teacher's resume', I'd choose the other resume' with all its misspellings.


Wow what a fantastic strawman.  Apparently, if someone hasn't declared you "gun safety certified," you're illiterate.  Huh.  Who knew?
 
2013-04-07 04:05:16 PM

GUTSU: In 1991 there were 210 million firearms in the united states. Now there are over 280 million. This far makes up for the decrease in gunownership which by the way, I believe is vastly under reported.


Well by God I'm sure glad you've got all those imagined facts on your side.  I'm totally farking convinced now!
 
2013-04-07 04:07:14 PM
Good to see all the rational arguments Fark is notorious for.
 
2013-04-07 04:07:37 PM

GAT_00: GUTSU: In 1991 there were 210 million firearms in the united states. Now there are over 280 million. This far makes up for the decrease in gunownership which by the way, I believe is vastly under reported.

Well by God I'm sure glad you've got all those imagined facts on your side.  I'm totally farking convinced now!


Once again showing GAT_00's ability to be well-reasoned and able to discuss things in a pleasant, well-informed manner. Is there ever a time when you're willing to discuss and NOT attack the other side?
 
2013-04-07 04:09:37 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: MichiganFTL: The incidence of mental health disorders are, and always will be, dispersed throughout society. Throw millions of firearms into the mix and the probability of homicide approaches levels that are statistically likely. More guns, more murder. Period.

actually, haven't murders decreased as guns have increased over the past 15 years?

Try matching that against the decrease in percentage of households with firearms and get back to me, troll.

keep moving the goalposts. He said more guns = more murder, I disproved that. You have to move goalposts. Standard tactic. So you'll still concede that with more guns in the hands of less households, we have less murder? So does that mean we've disarmed a good amount of bad people already?

Moving goalposts? They haven't changed position. Try reading comprehension.

Fewer armed households means fewer readily available firearms in households with mentally ill people.


but there are more households with firearms now than anytime in the past 20 years... Or we can now devolve into throwing statistics compiled from 500 robocalls trying to portray all of America. We trust cops and Beyonce's entourage with firearms and barely a high school education, but (mainly) college educated erudite educators cannot be trusted?
 
2013-04-07 04:09:49 PM
The derp on both sides of this issue is astounding.  'Background checks only hurt law abiding citizens' on one side and 'armed school personnel can't stop a shooter' on the other.
 
2013-04-07 04:10:05 PM

GAT_00: GUTSU: In 1991 there were 210 million firearms in the united states. Now there are over 280 million. This far makes up for the decrease in gunownership which by the way, I believe is vastly under reported.

Well by God I'm sure glad you've got all those imagined facts on your side.  I'm totally farking convinced now!


In this political climate, would you answer a phone survey or a door to door survey, and tell them you owned guns? I wouldn't.

Besides, you're just using my comment so you can avoid answering other peoples. But don't worry GAT_00, I'm sure there will be another school shooting soon. You'd like a few hundred more bodies to use as political capital, wouldn't you?
 
2013-04-07 04:10:43 PM
Schools built in the past ten years (perhaps even twenty) have, by and large, been built to be cheap and look innovative. But when you actually walk around in them, look at the poor design and bargain materials, you realize taxpayers got a mediocre product in return for their premium dollars. This is an example of a school made of mostly stucco, with poor interior design. Weak wooden doors, large windows in classroom doors that allow shooters to fire at will with non-bulletproof "glass", poor escape routes, walls that cannot stop any bullets. you can clearly see the cheap materials in the picture.

Contrast it with the schools built after the 1976 earthquakes that took down a lot of CA schools. They were rebuilt to be basically fortresses like this one . solid concrete structure, walls at least a foot thick of concrete and rebar, steel reinforced solid wood doors with 4x4 windows in the doors that make it very hard for shooters to shoot into the room. wide escape routes. supposedly it was built by the same people that built the men's county jail. not pretty, but very well built.

If people were genuinely interested in protecting kids it wouldn't just be about arming teachers - and believe me I see the drawbacks to both sides of the argument. it would foremost be about how we can design schools to be more protective of its students. but that kind of talk isn't as interesting, is it?
 
2013-04-07 04:12:15 PM
I fail to see how this is any different than having them learn CPR.  Just because you have weapons safety training doesn't mean you are packing a loaded weapon with the mindset of grabbing it at the drop of a hat.  It's useful knowledge that every teacher should know in the unlikely event someone does bring a gun to school.
 
2013-04-07 04:12:59 PM
As long as schools are soft targets producing the maximum angst production, you will have atrocities du jour.
The way to prevent this is hardly to disarm the law abiding population. And certainly withholding education and training from the probable combatants is a fantastic false flag LIE! Hold the asshats suggesting this responsible if you really and actually want to control guns OR reduce gun assisted murder.
It is an obvious LIE and derptastic recruitment tool for the few, the panicked(A sudden, overpowering terror, often affecting many people at once), the chickenchit citizenry to fly the flag of compassion when your agenda is far, far and away from that.

As long as YOU are a soft target, you will fail to do your duty for you, your family members and any support group silly enough to have you.

Get an education! Especially about guns, if that is your fear.
 
2013-04-07 04:13:19 PM

GUTSU: GAT_00:
Why the fark are you completely incapable of seeing any solution other than screaming MOAR like a /b/tard?  Gun problem?  MOAR GUNS.  It's like the argument of a 2 year old.

You're the one who thinks leaving children utterly defenseless because "GUNS R BAD" is better than giving them at least a small chance of survival with an armed teacher.

You believe it's preferable for a shooter to go unhindered from class to class, blasting the heads of children than say... let teachers have a pistol. Why you believe that is unknown, maybe you hate guns more than you like children?


What it boils down to is that people don't trust children and teachers together when guns are around.  Can't imagine why.

http://www.nea.org/home/42238.htm

"According the U.S. Department of Education, 127,120 (4 percent) public school teachers (K-12) were physically attacked at school-hit, kicked, bitten, slapped, stabbed or shot-during the 2007-08 school year. Another 222,460 teachers (7 percent) were threatened by students with acts of violence."

IDK what's more common:  teachers banging students or teachers banging on students.
 
2013-04-07 04:14:10 PM

tudorgurl: Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids.We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this.


Half of my professors were veterans. Several had seen actual combat in Vietnam - a school shooter running into an armed Dr. P would have been hilarious.
 
2013-04-07 04:16:33 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: MichiganFTL:

Fewer armed households means fewer readily available firearms in households with mentally ill people.


What an incredibly stupid association to make.
I am impressed at the lengths fools will go to in the effort to demonize their fantasy.
 
2013-04-07 04:16:36 PM

tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corner. Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids. There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this. It's stories and classes like these that inflame the ignorant and send them shrieking for their guns. I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom. That is not the place for it, and it changes the tenor of the room and the schoolhouse. It no longer is a place of safety and learning. When you put guns in the schoolhouse, it becomes nothing more than a prison.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.


It's not about fear, it's about empowering individuals to defend themselves and those around them. From my perspective, you are the one who is living in fear... it looks like you believe that every person is a potential sociopath, that we must keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens just in case, that the police will protect you.
 
2013-04-07 04:16:43 PM

LordJiro: Clearly, the sensible way to minimize school shooting casualties is NOT to get mentally ill people the help they need, or at least make it harder for the mentally ill to acquire firearms. It's to turn our schools into farking fortresses.

But hey, if preventing a lunatic from acquiring a gun makes ME have to do a little more paperwork before I can add another toy to my collection, we might as well be living in North Korea.


We live in a country where denying people medical care, personal control over their own bodily functions, and blaming everyone else for our problems rather than seeking to improve ourselves is the status quo. We live in a country where we take the short-sited, emotional knee-jerk approach towards solving problems rather than playing the long game, and ending up farking ourselves at every turn for it. We are also a society where our answer to every social ill is to throw money at it for a while, and follow up with absolutely no administration or follow-through.

We have managed to create two systems which are great in theory: medicare and social security. Even though it's worked out so far, what we end up with is once again a failure to accept the long-term needs of such systems and appropriately plan for growth and change of our population.

Maybe if we unfarked ourselves a little bit and spent more time looking at how best to make sure our citizens were able to get educations, how best to ensure businesses were prosperous and healthy while still paying their fair share of taxes, and how to maximize our advantage of selling to other nations rather than becoming relentless consumers, we might be in a different position right now.

As it stands, I fully expect that Each and every time a nutjob commits an atrocious act, it'll be condemned, and they'll find some way to use it to blame inanimate objects instead of for once admitting that we've failed these individuals by ignoring the problems that we should recognize as part of the oft-lauded "social contract".
 
2013-04-07 04:17:41 PM

GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: "Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.

What kind of interpersonal skill is shooting someone?

The best kind, if someone's pointing a gun at you.

Only a nutjob would think killing someone to be a useful skill that a teacher should cultivate.


Your gun rhetoric is sounding akin to the teabaggers' rationalization and fear-mongering. I would watch out if I were you.
 
2013-04-07 04:17:59 PM

GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: "Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.

What kind of interpersonal skill is shooting someone?

The best kind, if someone's pointing a gun at you.

Only a nutjob would think killing someone to be a useful skill that a teacher should cultivate.

I agree. This is a great way to smoke out nutjobs and get them out of classrooms.  If I was principal and saw, "gun safety certified" on a teacher's resume', I'd choose the other resume' with all its misspellings.

Wow what a fantastic strawman.  Apparently, if someone hasn't declared you "gun safety certified," you're illiterate.  Huh.  Who knew?


lolwut?
 
2013-04-07 04:18:08 PM

MichiganFTL:  Or we can now devolve into throwing statistics compiled from 500 robocalls trying to portray all of America. We trust cops and Beyonce's entourage with firearms and barely a high school education, but (mainly) college educated erudite educators cannot be trusted?


No.
I know plenty of college-educated people who cannot be trusted with firearms, or cars, or sharp knives, or pet fish, or children, or crayons, or bubble wrap. Since bullet-launchers occupy that special category of specifically designed to inflict massive bleeding trauma, book-learnin' is not a factor in the operator's trustworthiness. There is no reason to increase to the probability of schoolchildren  becoming victims of Firearm-Unlucky Sudden Onset Bullethole Syndrome (F-U SOBs).
 
2013-04-07 04:18:55 PM

GAT_00: GUTSU: GAT_00: knbwhite: tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corner. Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids. There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this. It's stories and classes like these that inflame the ignorant and send them shrieking for their guns. I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom. That is not the place for it, and it changes the tenor of the room and the schoolhouse. It no longer is a place of safety and learning. When you put guns in the schoolhouse, it becomes nothing more than a prison.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.

No one is telling you that you must have a gun.  Can't we be pro choice on the teacher with a gun issue?

Yes, because the solution to a school shooting is clearly a shootout.

Yes the obvious solution is to hide in the corner of a room and hope he doesn't come in. Brilliant plan GAT_00

Kids are being shot?  Why let's just shoot more kids!  Unless of course you're assuming the teacher has perfect accuracy, which people like you always do.  Somehow the armed citizen is always going to kill the shooter in one shot.


You got a perfect hit on the straw man in just one shot, so there's always a chance.
 
2013-04-07 04:19:08 PM

Bravo Two: GAT_00: GUTSU: In 1991 there were 210 million firearms in the united states. Now there are over 280 million. This far makes up for the decrease in gunownership which by the way, I believe is vastly under reported.

Well by God I'm sure glad you've got all those imagined facts on your side.  I'm totally farking convinced now!

Once again showing GAT_00's ability to be well-reasoned and able to discuss things in a pleasant, well-informed manner. Is there ever a time when you're willing to discuss and NOT attack the other side?


I stopped being civil to NRA types a long time ago once I realized they had no respect for me or any position I held.  Why bother treating someone with anything but disdain when you know it's never occurred to them to respect you?  That, and I'm not real big on being nice to people who see kids dying pointlessly and think "Yeah, everything looks good and free here.  Just the world I want to live in."
 
2013-04-07 04:19:31 PM

BarkingUnicorn: GUTSU: GAT_00:
Why the fark are you completely incapable of seeing any solution other than screaming MOAR like a /b/tard?  Gun problem?  MOAR GUNS.  It's like the argument of a 2 year old.

You're the one who thinks leaving children utterly defenseless because "GUNS R BAD" is better than giving them at least a small chance of survival with an armed teacher.

You believe it's preferable for a shooter to go unhindered from class to class, blasting the heads of children than say... let teachers have a pistol. Why you believe that is unknown, maybe you hate guns more than you like children?

What it boils down to is that people don't trust children and teachers together when guns are around.  Can't imagine why.

http://www.nea.org/home/42238.htm

"According the U.S. Department of Education, 127,120 (4 percent) public school teachers (K-12) were physically attacked at school-hit, kicked, bitten, slapped, stabbed or shot-during the 2007-08 school year. Another 222,460 teachers (7 percent) were threatened by students with acts of violence."i

IDK what's more common:  teachers banging students or teachers banging on students.


I personally don't have a problem with a teacher shooting a student if they are shooting at them or stabbing them. But that probably makes me heartless, the kid probably had a tough time growing up and needed another participation trophy.
 
2013-04-07 04:22:22 PM
I blame the "one shot, one kill" bullchit that the media/hollywood loves so farking much.
It just seems so cool.

Trust me on this, from IRW experience, the best way to not get shot in the first place, is to understand the weapon.
 
2013-04-07 04:24:50 PM
tylerdurden217:
The incidence of mental health disorders are, and always will be, dispersed throughout society. Throw millions of firearms into the mix and the probability of homicide approaches levels that are statistically likely. More guns, more murder. Period.

I keep forgetting how murder never happened before the invention of firearms.
 
2013-04-07 04:25:16 PM
This sure seems to be a great way to better the learning environment and make it safer.  Because there is almost nothing worse in this day and age than being as ignorant regarding firearms than those who could be against this instruction.
 
2013-04-07 04:25:52 PM

archichris: tudorgurl: And on the news last night, a whole bunch of clucking chickens squawking about how having a gun in the classroom would protect the children from the evil-doers who lurk around every corner. Seriously, people. Get a flocking grip. There is absolutely NO reason for a teacher to have a gun, loaded or not, in a classroom full of kids. There is no way that I or any of those teachers would seriously have the presence of mind in an active shooter situation to find the key to the gun safe, open it, take the gun lock off the gun, load it, and fire it without hitting children or other adults. We are not soldiers. We are teachers, and we should not have to be expected to do shiat like this. It's stories and classes like these that inflame the ignorant and send them shrieking for their guns. I will protect and defend my kids against any person who comes to harm them. However, I refuse to have a weapon in my classroom. That is not the place for it, and it changes the tenor of the room and the schoolhouse. It no longer is a place of safety and learning. When you put guns in the schoolhouse, it becomes nothing more than a prison.

How sad it must be to live in such fear. I really feel sorry for these people.

So you'd just let the kids get trapped in the room and shot? Heres the thing, we have tons of rules about fire protection and suppression systems for schools. It has to be addressed in the design and materials the building is made from. You have to have an exit within a certain number of feet of the classroom door, and sprinkers, and fire-resistant rated partitions, detectors, monitoring, etc.....

But we do absolutely nothing about securing our schools against physical violence. Yet we live in a country where in some major cities 90% of the gun violence is gang related and is occuring in the neighborhoods near the schools and school children are being killed.

Google cannot find me any news stories about children being killed in a fire at a school in 2012. Yet we ...


demaL-demaL-yeH: MichiganFTL: tylerdurden217: RickN99: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: GAT_00: BarkingUnicorn: "Professional development" includes interpersonal skills, subby.

What kind of interpersonal skill is shooting someone?

The best kind, if someone's pointing a gun at you.

Only a nutjob would think killing someone to be a useful skill that a teacher should cultivate.

I think knowing how to defend yourself is a skill everyone in every profession should cultivate.  I guess teaching a 55-yo, 90-lb school librarian how to box would be an option, but I'm skeptical.

I'm a nutjob, I guess.

Defend themselves against what exactly? Please tell us more about this fantastical world where school librarians experience credible and even probable threat of being assaulted or murdered.

The incidence of mental health disorders are, and always will be, dispersed throughout society. Throw millions of firearms into the mix and the probability of homicide approaches levels that are statistically likely. More guns, more murder. Period.

actually, haven't murders decreased as guns have increased over the past 15 years?

Try matching that against the decrease in percentage of households with firearms and get back to me, troll.


How the Fark is that statement trolling?
 
2013-04-07 04:27:03 PM
GAT_00:
I stopped being civil to NRA types a long time ago once I realized they had no respect for me or any position I held.  Why bother treating someone with anything but disdain when you know it's never occurred to them to respect you?  That, and I'm not real big on being nice to people who see kids dying pointlessly and think "Yeah, everything looks good and free here.  Just the world I want to live in."

Might as well back it in and roll back every freedom. Kids won't be dying pointlessly if everybody is confined to their own 10 by 10 cell with food, entertainment, and health care piped in. Extremely safe slavery beats dangerous freedom any day.
 
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