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(The Atlantic)   Why do we laugh at North Korea but fear Iran? Is it because Kim Jong-Un looks like Moe Howard mated with an Oompa Loompa and Mahmoud Ahmacrazyman looks like Christoph Waltz?   (theatlantic.com) divider line 59
    More: Interesting, North Koreans, Iran, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, American Empire, Carl Levin, Senate Armed Services Committee  
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8683 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Apr 2013 at 12:12 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-04-07 10:06:50 AM
12 votes:
I don't fear Iran. Anyone that does has absolutly no understanding of the Iranian government.
2013-04-07 11:15:08 AM
9 votes:
When was the last time North Korea threatened to destroy Israel?
2013-04-07 10:13:02 AM
8 votes:
We don't face the same challenges with NK as we do with Iran. Once you look past the superficial "enemy with nuclear ambitions" facade, you find very different countries capable of very different levels of mischief.
2013-04-07 01:43:24 PM
4 votes:
They're not judged by the damage they can do, but the clusterfark they can start. If Iran starts a war with Israel, it could very well ignite the whole region - a region that contains a whole smorgasbord of different ethnicities, religious sects, secular groups, and governments who either outright hate each other or are just waiting for an excuse, all of which are sitting on top of a very large pile of one of the most imporntant resources on the planet, not to mention the chance of bringing in the big boys to play.

If North Korea starts a war with South Korea (or anyone else), they'll be stomped flat in about three hours, at which point China will close off their borders and spend a decade or two selling supplies and materials to whoever gets stuck rebuilding Korea.
2013-04-07 12:51:57 PM
4 votes:

Millennium: They're equally insane, but the Kim family has the funny kind of crazy, while Ahmadinejad has the scary kind of crazy.

The biggest difference is in how grounded in reality they are. The Kim clan is clearly stark raving bonkers, the type that never really gets anywhere because it doesn't understand reality well enough to put one foot in front of the other. North Korea has nuclear weapons, but the only way they'll ever get something into orbit is to aim at the ground. Ahmadinejad, on the other hand, understands reality well enough to actually do things, and there's nothing funny about the things he wants to do. He doesn't have nuclear weapons yet, but it's easy to chart his steady progress toward one.


You have to keep in mind that the Iranian president has relatively little real power. All of that lies in the Supreme Leader, who's a cruel and power-hungry bastard pretending to be a religious fanatic. It's an utterly cynical regime.

If the Iranian government was as crazy as people think, they wouldn't have accepted outside intervention to end the Iran-Iraq War. The Supreme Leader wants power and regional hegemony, and he knows he won't accomplish that by actually lobbing nukes at people (especially if, like Israel, they can lob nukes back).

Instead, the nuclear weapons are designed to force people to take Iran seriously. It's also completely undermining his country (what with its terrible economy and bad political situation), but this is seen as an acceptable sacrifice.

The problem with a nuclear Iran is that Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt will all start looking to get their own in order to keep up with the joneses. It's a fair point that, since they didn't do it in regards to Israel, they won't do it for Iran-however, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Monarchies are much more frightened of Iran than they are of Israel. Israel's just something the local Muslim countries use when they want to rattle sabers. The leadership knows Israel's never going to go much farther beyond its borders, and no one-absolutely no one-actually gives a shiat about the Palestinians.
2013-04-07 12:08:38 PM
4 votes:
Israel.
2013-04-07 01:53:32 PM
3 votes:
Just to clear up some common misconceptions about leadership in Iran.
This is Iran's Supreme Leader - he's the one that's really in charge.

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

This is Iran's President - he's not really in charge (Think of him as an Iranian Biden)
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com\

From a military and nuclear proliferation perspective the U.S. has more to fear from Best Korea.
2013-04-07 12:57:42 PM
3 votes:
i.imgur.com
2013-04-07 12:39:32 PM
3 votes:
Because Israel?
2013-04-07 12:30:30 PM
3 votes:
Iran managed not to totally suck balls in the 1980s when it came to war.  I don't exactly fear their military, but they actually did manage to engage in a war in semi recent history and sustain the war effort to some degree.  Plus Iran gets some bonus points for being "annoying farkheads to fund various militant Islamic groups" and their general douchebaggery in southern Iraq.

It also doesn't help that Iran's demographics seem to suggest the theocracy is not going to survive long when the younger generations come to power, and rulers sometimes start shiat with foreign countries when their grasp on power slips.

North Korea has the ability to commit one horrible act, hitting Seoul with missiles/artillery fire which will be instantly followed by the ROK and Americans smashing North Korea like the bug it is.  Some estimates say it would take less than 72 hours to overrun North Korea in terms of seizing all their military bases.  Iran has the potential to actually be a semi long term annoyance and screw with regional stability.  I don't fear them, but I do hope the CIA is busy helping the Persian youth form organizations that will lead to regime change.
2013-04-07 11:17:53 AM
3 votes:
Because even the stupidest person can't be convinced North Korea is full of scary Muslins ready to bring Sharia Law to the Skeeter Holler Potluck and Mudlympics.
2013-04-07 11:13:05 AM
3 votes:

Dinki: Benevolent Misanthrope: Except that China was on NK's side in the last war and might be again.

I'd be highly surprised. Back in the 50's the Chinese Govt. was much more ideologically driven. They had no love for the West, and no real incentive to be accommodating. Not so much these days.There is too much riding on a peaceful US-China relationship, economically speaking. The Chinese know the NK regime is a dead end. They know that oppression (even if they occasionally use it themselves) is a losing policy.


Let's hope so.  But wars are generally known for involving nations who really shouldn't have a dog in the fight other than they had an alliance with one side or the other.

We'll probably never see, anyway - I'm pretty sure this is Kim's way of convincing his people that the siege is still on, that his threats made us back down, and he's in charge just like his father and grandfather.
2013-04-07 05:28:15 PM
2 votes:
Because Israel yanks our chain and tells us to be afraid of Iran. And like the good little biatch we are, we bark and howl on command.
2013-04-07 01:40:35 PM
2 votes:
It's because North Korea is full of starving, repressed near-slaves, while Iran actually has a serious military, a working economy, and represents an actual threat.

Besides, North Korea can't threaten Israel.
2013-04-07 12:51:03 PM
2 votes:
i.imgur.com
2013-04-07 12:35:14 PM
2 votes:
Was I supposed to fear Iran this week? I never get the memo.

It was so much easier when we had that chart to tell us what color our was.
2013-04-07 12:18:53 PM
2 votes:
Because Iran is governed by Muslim fanatics.
2013-04-07 11:28:04 AM
2 votes:

Peter von Nostrand: We fear Iran? When did this happen?


"Fear" as in "I'm afraid we're going to have to kill you now."
2013-04-07 11:17:37 AM
2 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Dinki: Counter_Intelligent: Also, I haven't heard frightwingers on Fox say that NK wants to be a regional power.

NK has Russia, China, and South Korea as neighbors. It wouldn't  last 5 minutes against the first 2, and SK has the US to back them up.

Except that China was on NK's side in the last war and might be again.


Not even remotely likely, I promise.
2013-04-07 11:12:41 AM
2 votes:

Dinki: Benevolent Misanthrope: Except that China was on NK's side in the last war and might be again.

I'd be highly surprised. Back in the 50's the Chinese Govt. was much more ideologically driven. They had no love for the West, and no real incentive to be accommodating. Not so much these days.There is too much riding on a peaceful US-China relationship, economically speaking. The Chinese know the NK regime is a dead end. They know that oppression (even if they occasionally use it themselves) is a losing policy.


Also, China at the time was very weak and the Communists still didn't have a strong hold on the government.  There was a vocal China First faction within the US that was pressuring President Truman to take military action against the ChiComs.  The Chinese and Russians were content to let Kim Il Sung push the UN forces off the peninsula, but when the UN forces pushed back and MacArthur started talking about using nukes, the Chinese intervened.
2013-04-07 10:23:59 AM
2 votes:

Dinki: I don't fear Iran. Anyone that does has absolutly no understanding of the Iranian government.


vygramul: We don't face the same challenges with NK as we do with Iran. Once you look past the superficial "enemy with nuclear ambitions" facade, you find very different countries capable of very different levels of mischief.


Both of these.  Iran does have the potential to make good on its threats, should they ever get a charismatic leader in office again.  North Korea is just trying to maintain their society's siege mentality, AFAIK.  They have far less potential to be truly problematic, their entire treat being that they could bring China into a war against us again.
2013-04-07 10:43:49 PM
1 votes:

Fano: vygramul: mbillips: Rent Party: The NK army has 1.1 million people on active status right now.  That is almost twice what the SK army has available.  The NK army has more trucks, more tanks, more artillery, and it's ready right now.   So unless you think SK can call up it's reserves in the four days that NK doctrine plans on the fight to last, we should be paying attention.   They also have a willingness to use it, which is more than the Iranians have *ever* shown.

Numbers mean nothing. South Korea's main battle tank is the equivalent of the M1 Abrams; the best North Korea has are some really, really old T-72s. South Korea flies F-16s against a very small number of modern MiGs (which they have proven to outclass over Syria and Iraq), and a boatload of '50s-era MiG-21s. The north would never make it across the DMZ. A tank 100 miles from the DMZ may as well not exist, considering the capability of South Korean and U.S. air power. Also, every intelligence source has noted that the North Koreans have NOT put their active forces on alert, or moved them into any sort of attacking position. This is just trolling by Fatty the Third.

Yeah, the "we've got more" numbers reasoning didn't do Saddam much good in 1991.

Perhaps he wagers that he can get our killbots to switch off after he sends wave after wave of his men at them.


media.fxhome.com
2013-04-07 07:49:16 PM
1 votes:

Rent Party: The NK army has 1.1 million people on active status right now.  That is almost twice what the SK army has available.  The NK army has more trucks, more tanks, more artillery, and it's ready right now.   So unless you think SK can call up it's reserves in the four days that NK doctrine plans on the fight to last, we should be paying attention.   They also have a willingness to use it, which is more than the Iranians have *ever* shown.


Numbers mean nothing. South Korea's main battle tank is the equivalent of the M1 Abrams; the best North Korea has are some really, really old T-72s. South Korea flies F-16s against a very small number of modern MiGs (which they have proven to outclass over Syria and Iraq), and a boatload of '50s-era MiG-21s. The north would never make it across the DMZ. A tank 100 miles from the DMZ may as well not exist, considering the capability of South Korean and U.S. air power. Also, every intelligence source has noted that the North Koreans have NOT put their active forces on alert, or moved them into any sort of attacking position. This is just trolling by Fatty the Third.
2013-04-07 05:59:50 PM
1 votes:
Because Iran has crazy religious bigotry at its foundation and is unpredictable, whereas NK is a poor traditional battle/domination based country, that will get the shiat kicked out of it by China if they upset the apple cart too much?
2013-04-07 05:25:34 PM
1 votes:

you are a puppet: A repub friend a couple years back told me that if I didn't support attacking Iran then I was saying that Israel should be destroyed, there's your difference


And yet somehow, I imagine you would say it is wrong to stereotype a group of people, eh?
2013-04-07 05:17:21 PM
1 votes:

iaazathot: Hmmmm, what (O) could it (I) be (L)?


This argument is busted.

Iraq is weak.  Just go there.
2013-04-07 04:45:49 PM
1 votes:
I don't fear Iran, nor do I laugh at NK.

I do believe we dodged a bullet with someone like Mitt Romney almost getting elected, someone who was all too eager to prove he's a warmonger, and frankly, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if NK is that socially psychotic to the point of where they just might kill themselves en masse like Jonestown. It's actually too disturbing to find humor in it.
2013-04-07 03:57:20 PM
1 votes:

mbillips: Rent Party: Mid_mo_mad_man: Rent Party: Millennium: They're equally insane, but the Kim family has the funny kind of crazy, while Ahmadinejad has the scary kind of crazy.

You have that exactly backwards.   North Korea holds the fourth largest standing army in the world, including the largest artillery battery on Earth.   They have openly tested nuclear weapons, they have fired missiles over Japan, and they have fired on and sunk South Korean navy ships.   They are not only nuts, they are openly belligerent.  The Iranians like to rattle their sabres and the American media likes to tell you they're two years away from teh bomb, just like they have been for the last three decades.

In terms of global stability, North Korea is the far greater threat.

Don't confuse size of it's army with combat readiness and the ability to mobilize it

A standing army is already mobilized.  Their entire military is set up for one massive unifying push into South Korea.    They are entirely combat ready and completely beligerent.  The Iranians don't have anywhere near the capability that the North Koreans have.  There is a reason 35,000 US soldiers sit on the DMZ every day of the year.

Uh, no. Most of the DPRK army is nowhere near the DMZ, and consists mainly of poorly trained, ill-equipped conscripts. The U.S. has very few troops along the DMZ; South Korea troops man most of it. There are fewer than 30,000 U.S. forces in Korea, only 20,000 of them ground forces, and most of the former camps we had along the DMZ have been closed or turned over to ROK. The ROK Army has nearly a million well-equipped, well-trained soldiers with much better equipment than the Norks have. The U.S. presence is merely a token to demonstrate our seriousness about supporting the ROK in case of an attack by the North, but the South Koreans are fully capable of kicking the North's ass with no assistance.


The NK army has 1.1 million people on active status right now.  That is almost twice what the SK army has available.  The NK army has more trucks, more tanks, more artillery, and it's ready right now.   So unless you think SK can call up it's reserves in the four days that NK doctrine plans on the fight to last, we should be paying attention.   They also have a willingness to use it, which is more than the Iranians have *ever* shown.

Wetting your pants over the Persians is dumb.  We gave them Iraq on a platter, and now we're trying to account for it by blaming them for our own stupidity.
2013-04-07 03:14:54 PM
1 votes:

meow said the dog: true or false: how long is a string


Mu
2013-04-07 02:51:46 PM
1 votes:
Best Korea is just proof that Truman was an idiot.
2013-04-07 02:16:54 PM
1 votes:

Millennium: They're equally insane, but the Kim family has the funny kind of crazy, while Ahmadinejad has the scary kind of crazy.


You have that exactly backwards.   North Korea holds the fourth largest standing army in the world, including the largest artillery battery on Earth.   They have openly tested nuclear weapons, they have fired missiles over Japan, and they have fired on and sunk South Korean navy ships.   They are not only nuts, they are openly belligerent.  The Iranians like to rattle their sabres and the American media likes to tell you they're two years away from teh bomb, just like they have been for the last three decades.

In terms of global stability, North Korea is the far greater threat.
2013-04-07 02:05:05 PM
1 votes:

Arkanaut: FormlessOne: It's because North Korea is full of starving, repressed near-slaves, while Iran actually has a serious military, a working economy, and represents an actual threat.

Besides, North Korea can't threaten Israel.

Came here to say this.

IMO the more realistic Iran threat -- at least as far as American interests are concerned -- is that Iran might shut down the Straits of Hormuz, thus basically wreaking havoc on the economies of the other Gulf countries.


Yep, and even with that, the biggest long-term loser would be Iran.  A slow suicide for the regime as opposed to the shotgun to the head that would follow Iran using a nuke.
2013-04-07 02:01:48 PM
1 votes:

Arkanaut: IMO the more realistic Iran threat -- at least as far as American interests are concerned -- is that Iran might shut down the Straits of Hormuz, thus basically wreaking havoc on the economies of the other Gulf countries.


THAT would be the actual flashpoint to any conflict with Iran.

/remember what the -real- reason for invading Iraq was
2013-04-07 01:59:19 PM
1 votes:

FormlessOne: It's because North Korea is full of starving, repressed near-slaves, while Iran actually has a serious military, a working economy, and represents an actual threat.

Besides, North Korea can't threaten Israel.


Came here to say this.

IMO the more realistic Iran threat -- at least as far as American interests are concerned -- is that Iran might shut down the Straits of Hormuz, thus basically wreaking havoc on the economies of the other Gulf countries.
2013-04-07 01:58:02 PM
1 votes:
because Persian empire compared to cabbager farmers?
2013-04-07 01:44:29 PM
1 votes:
We don't make fun of Iran every time they Photoshop missiles and jet fighters into a picture?
2013-04-07 01:39:05 PM
1 votes:

optional: Millennium: They're equally insane, but the Kim family has the funny kind of crazy, while Ahmadinejad has the scary kind of crazy.

The biggest difference is in how grounded in reality they are. The Kim clan is clearly stark raving bonkers, the type that never really gets anywhere because it doesn't understand reality well enough to put one foot in front of the other. North Korea has nuclear weapons, but the only way they'll ever get something into orbit is to aim at the ground. Ahmadinejad, on the other hand, understands reality well enough to actually do things, and there's nothing funny about the things he wants to do. He doesn't have nuclear weapons yet, but it's easy to chart his steady progress toward one.

You have to keep in mind that the Iranian president has relatively little real power. All of that lies in the Supreme Leader, who's a cruel and power-hungry bastard pretending to be a religious fanatic. It's an utterly cynical regime.

If the Iranian government was as crazy as people think, they wouldn't have accepted outside intervention to end the Iran-Iraq War. The Supreme Leader wants power and regional hegemony, and he knows he won't accomplish that by actually lobbing nukes at people (especially if, like Israel, they can lob nukes back).

Instead, the nuclear weapons are designed to force people to take Iran seriously. It's also completely undermining his country (what with its terrible economy and bad political situation), but this is seen as an acceptable sacrifice.

The problem with a nuclear Iran is that Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt will all start looking to get their own in order to keep up with the joneses. It's a fair point that, since they didn't do it in regards to Israel, they won't do it for Iran-however, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Monarchies are much more frightened of Iran than they are of Israel. Israel's just something the local Muslim countries use when they want to rattle sabers. The leadership knows Israel's never going to go much ...


One of the reasons China really doesn't like a nuclear North Korea is because it creates a situation where Japan might decide it wants nukes. And then maybe Taiwan.

Nuclear proliferation doesn't do people much good.
2013-04-07 01:38:29 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Captain Dan: A nuclear Iran diminishes our influence in the Middle East.

Just like a nuclear Pakistan does?

Oh wait.


It does. That is why the US pays massive amount of money to Pakistan; to pay them off and to keep them from flexing their dicks.
2013-04-07 01:38:29 PM
1 votes:
North Korea launches a missile. We laugh our asses off as it crashes into the ocean. Iran launches a missile. We bomb the shiat out of them because they just attacked Israel. That's the difference.
2013-04-07 01:35:01 PM
1 votes:

dennysgod: Wow, the Israel love is strong in this thread.

Since the 1950's NK has routinely said they'd turn South Korea in to a smoldering pile of ash yet you don't see anybody in this thread caring, or knowing, this is the case.


..and yet somehow, Seoul is still standing
2013-04-07 01:31:33 PM
1 votes:
A nuclear Iran diminishes our influence in the Middle East.  A nuclear North Korea does nothing to diminish our Asian-Pacific influence.  China is the deterrent there; North Korea is superfluous.
2013-04-07 01:22:46 PM
1 votes:
Yep, Fatty Kim the Third's minions throw so much as one artillery shell in the general direction of Seoul or Tokyo, there will be a couple of dozen PRC People's Army divisions in Pyongyang inquiring politely as to the health of him and his senior minions. They don't need the headache another land war in East Asia would provide (or at least, a land war involving one of their major trading partners).

Also, China uses NK as a communist buffer state. China knows that anyone who puts their mind to it can roll over NK due to the last half century plus of infrastructure neglect. China does not want a capitalist country on the boarder if they can avoid it. If NK starts actually trying to start a war, rather than just posturing, China will go in and make them a puppet state rather than allowing a capitalist country to come in and take over. It wouldn't take much work/money on their part, and would probably be the fastest, easiest solution for everyone including the NK people. Sad when having another country make your government into a puppet is the best solution you can hope for.

/Subby should have said 'take seriously' not 'fear'.
2013-04-07 01:05:56 PM
1 votes:
Because North Korea can't feed themselves, while Iran can?

At least Iran has some competence, which is what makes them scary.

North Korea also just seems like a goofy bond villain from the 80's, but in real life.
2013-04-07 12:40:35 PM
1 votes:
Speak for yourself, subby. I don't fear Iran either.
2013-04-07 12:40:24 PM
1 votes:
Iran has money, NK not so much.

Takes money to be a real threat.
2013-04-07 12:35:50 PM
1 votes:

PseUdononymous Savagery: N. Korea really has nothing much of value that the rest of the world wants.


They have enormous deposits of rare earth metals.  If they could feed their people long enough to mine and process that shiat, they'd literally be sitting on a modern-day gold mine.
2013-04-07 12:34:40 PM
1 votes:
Because it's claimed Iran might attack Israel, but all NK is threatening to do is attack the US.
2013-04-07 12:34:30 PM
1 votes:
Because that bag of shiat running the horrorshow in North Korea is just trying to keep a grip on the country.

He's going to push this staredown to the wire, then back off when the US gives him some concessions. Same old tired playbook that the human scum known as the Kim family has been using for decades.
2013-04-07 12:32:22 PM
1 votes:

JerseyTim: I'm more afraid of Iran in a "Oh shiat, they're going to talk us into going to war with them, aren't they?" kind of way.


Yeah, pretty much this, or "I'm afraid that if the US is dumb enough to elect another Republican president in the next 20 years, we'll get pulled into another war with them".

Part of the issue, too, is that Iran at least has a history of being moderately competent, and their country isn't entirely in shambles when it comes to infrastructure. You get the sense from them that if they REALLY wanted to do so, they'd have already thrown nukes at Israel (not counting Israeli intelligence preventing that from happening). They're just in the same state as NK politically where their posturing is largely for the consumption of hardliners within their own country; if they really did wipe Israel from the map (in a fantasy world where we didn't wipe them right back) they wouldn't know what to do without the big scary jewie monster to point at.
2013-04-07 12:30:50 PM
1 votes:
It is one thing to fight over real estate and resources like what is happening in Korea.  They are fighting over political ideals and power.  N Korea is mostly an atheist communist country.  It is a totally different thing when you announce that you have your god and prophet on your side.

Iran is threatening Israel.  There are Jewish bankers in the United States that have a vested interest in preventing Israel from becoming a glass parking lot.  Iran knows that if they go to war, that millions of Muslims would join the party from all over the world.

Then you have that pesky deal about oil being under the sand in that desolate part of the world.  They make trillions of dollars off of that sticky black goo. If there is a war with Iran, then we can't afford to drive our SUVs to Walmart.

N. Korea really has nothing much of value that the rest of the world wants.  If they would sit down and STFU American companies would be tripping over themselves to exploit the people of NK and pay them less than they do the Chinese and Malaysians. Hell, we are doing business with Vietnam now.  We ended our hostilities with them twenty years later than we did NK.   The beloved Kim family has held the people down for over half of a Century.  This is not going to end well for the grandson of Kim Il Suc.  Second generation businesses don't fair well.  Third generations are barely existent.
2013-04-07 12:29:11 PM
1 votes:

r1niceboy: I think we should just give China a few billion for them to roll south and turn Best Korea into a Wal-Mart manufacturing hub.


They could already save a few billion by not propping up the Norks, so there's no reason to think that a few more from us would motivate anything.
2013-04-07 12:14:01 PM
1 votes:
I had no idea that I feared Iran...
2013-04-07 12:06:15 PM
1 votes:
I'm more afraid of Iran in a "Oh shiat, they're going to talk us into going to war with them, aren't they?" kind of way.
2013-04-07 12:01:28 PM
1 votes:

jake_lex: Altair: Benevolent Misanthrope: Dinki: Counter_Intelligent: Also, I haven't heard frightwingers on Fox say that NK wants to be a regional power.

NK has Russia, China, and South Korea as neighbors. It wouldn't  last 5 minutes against the first 2, and SK has the US to back them up.

Except that China was on NK's side in the last war and might be again.

Not even remotely likely, I promise.

You know, one of the quick tricks I use to determine if I should take someone's politics seriously is this: if they call the People's Republic of China "Communist China", I know I can safely ignore them.

There's no way in hell China is going to let North Korea cause a problem for 3 of their biggest trade partners. Mao is dead.  The people in charge now want that less than anyone else.

Besides, it stirkes me that as shiatty as North Korea's missile technology is, if they do attempt to lob a missile at the United States, or even at Japan, there's a pretty good chance they end up nuking China instead.


I know this and I'd love to think that it would preclude people doing stupid shiat.  But as I said before, wars are kind of known for creating strange bedfellows, drawing in nations that have no business there and generally making nations do things you wouldn't think they would consider.

Hopefully, my nagging doubts are all for naught.
2013-04-07 11:48:28 AM
1 votes:

Altair: Benevolent Misanthrope: Dinki: Counter_Intelligent: Also, I haven't heard frightwingers on Fox say that NK wants to be a regional power.

NK has Russia, China, and South Korea as neighbors. It wouldn't  last 5 minutes against the first 2, and SK has the US to back them up.

Except that China was on NK's side in the last war and might be again.

Not even remotely likely, I promise.


You know, one of the quick tricks I use to determine if I should take someone's politics seriously is this: if they call the People's Republic of China "Communist China", I know I can safely ignore them.

There's no way in hell China is going to let North Korea cause a problem for 3 of their biggest trade partners. Mao is dead.  The people in charge now want that less than anyone else.

Besides, it stirkes me that as shiatty as North Korea's missile technology is, if they do attempt to lob a missile at the United States, or even at Japan, there's a pretty good chance they end up nuking China instead.
2013-04-07 11:25:54 AM
1 votes:
We fear Iran? When did this happen?
2013-04-07 11:15:43 AM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Dinki: Benevolent Misanthrope: Except that China was on NK's side in the last war and might be again.

I'd be highly surprised. Back in the 50's the Chinese Govt. was much more ideologically driven. They had no love for the West, and no real incentive to be accommodating. Not so much these days.There is too much riding on a peaceful US-China relationship, economically speaking. The Chinese know the NK regime is a dead end. They know that oppression (even if they occasionally use it themselves) is a losing policy.

Let's hope so.  But wars are generally known for involving nations who really shouldn't have a dog in the fight other than they had an alliance with one side or the other.

We'll probably never see, anyway - I'm pretty sure this is Kim's way of convincing his people that the siege is still on, that his threats made us back down, and he's in charge just like his father and grandfather.


And here I thought Dinki's point was that NK couldn't be a regional power because China was the regional power, and Iran didn't have that problem in their region.
2013-04-07 11:07:59 AM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Except that China was on NK's side in the last war and might be again.


I'd be highly surprised. Back in the 50's the Chinese Govt. was much more ideologically driven. They had no love for the West, and no real incentive to be accommodating. Not so much these days.There is too much riding on a peaceful US-China relationship, economically speaking. The Chinese know the NK regime is a dead end. They know that oppression (even if they occasionally use it themselves) is a losing policy.
2013-04-07 10:57:16 AM
1 votes:

Counter_Intelligent: Also, I haven't heard frightwingers on Fox say that NK wants to be a regional power.


NK has Russia, China, and South Korea as neighbors. It wouldn't  last 5 minutes against the first 2, and SK has the US to back them up.
 
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