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(The New York Times)   At this point it's harder to figure who DIDN'T know about Mike Rice's abuse of players at Rutgers (link fixed)   (nytimes.com) divider line 36
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1188 clicks; posted to Sports » on 07 Apr 2013 at 11:25 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-07 10:41:05 AM  
I didn't know until i saw it on the news.
 
2013-04-07 11:25:07 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: I didn't know until i saw it on the news.


Hell - I didn't know until I saw it on Fark.

/on a follow-up no less
//Just now, actually
 
2013-04-07 11:31:55 AM  
I didn't know about it until just now.
 
2013-04-07 11:38:38 AM  
 
2013-04-07 11:43:33 AM  

Trollin4Colon: Here is a hard hitting expose

http://deadspin.com/saturday-night-live-took-on-the-mike-rice-video- to night-471037367


Gawker's format has become annoying as shiat, but it's still better than that insipid NYT login-wall.
 
2013-04-07 11:43:44 AM  
What's up with the B1G not investigating abusive coaches? This should have been right up there when the B1G was looking at Rutgers.

I still wonder what the B1G knew about Sandusky.
 
2013-04-07 11:47:43 AM  

UNC_Samurai: Trollin4Colon: Here is a hard hitting expose

http://deadspin.com/saturday-night-live-took-on-the-mike-rice-video- to night-471037367

Gawker's format has become annoying as shiat, but it's still better than that insipid NYT login-wall.


I am constantly amazed that every new iteration of the site is so horribly worse than the last. Not just a slight drop but a "What the fark are the web designers thinking" drop.
 
2013-04-07 11:49:25 AM  
If one of his players had pushed him or hit him after he had thrown a ball at them or had gotten physical with them, that player would have been thrown out of school, prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and been labeled a thug by the media. And the coach would have been held up as hero.
 
2013-04-07 12:07:31 PM  

ongbok: If one of his players had pushed him or hit him after he had thrown a ball at them or had gotten physical with them, that player would have been thrown out of school, prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and been labeled a thug by the media. And the coach would have been held up as hero.


a.espncdn.com
 
2013-04-07 12:30:11 PM  
I thought most coaches were abusive. That's why everybody's fat, we built a negative association around working out due to that sort of shiat.
 
2013-04-07 12:42:41 PM  

Trollin4Colon: UNC_Samurai: Trollin4Colon: Here is a hard hitting expose

http://deadspin.com/saturday-night-live-took-on-the-mike-rice-video- to night-471037367

Gawker's format has become annoying as shiat, but it's still better than that insipid NYT login-wall.

I am constantly amazed that every new iteration of the site is so horribly worse than the last. Not just a slight drop but a "What the fark are the web designers thinking" drop.


You'll get over it?
 
2013-04-07 12:46:14 PM  

wildcardjack: I thought most coaches were abusive. That's why everybody's fat, we built a negative association around working out due to that sort of shiat.


What a person eats contributes much more to weight gain than lack of activity. Exercise obviously expedites the process, no doubt, but food choices are the bigger risk factor by a sizable margin.
 
2013-04-07 12:46:33 PM  

legion_of_doo: What's up with the B1G not investigating abusive coaches? This should have been right up there when the B1G was looking at Rutgers.

I still wonder what the B1G knew about Sandusky.


They're following the example of the SEC and NCAA in hearing and seeing no evil.
 
2013-04-07 12:49:32 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: legion_of_doo: What's up with the B1G not investigating abusive coaches? This should have been right up there when the B1G was looking at Rutgers.

I still wonder what the B1G knew about Sandusky.

They're following the example of the SEC and NCAA in hearing and seeing no evil.


Yeah with Sandusky I have the feeling that everybody in the NCAA knew that there was something terribly wrong with him. Why else would somebody who was held in such high regards as a defensive coordinator not get a single offer from another school after he step down at PSU.
 
2013-04-07 12:54:11 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: legion_of_doo: What's up with the B1G not investigating abusive coaches? This should have been right up there when the B1G was looking at Rutgers.

I still wonder what the B1G knew about Sandusky.

They're following the example of the SEC and NCAA in hearing and seeing no evil.


Conferences are businesses. Administrators of these businesses do what they believe to be financially advantageous for those businesses, in which morality plays no part.

I'm not saying it's right. I don't think anyone here nor very many people in the world would accept child rape in order to avoid a monetary loss.

But, that's the way it is. If you're expecting bastions of morality throughout our country's educational system, you're sorely mistaken.
 
2013-04-07 12:54:50 PM  

legion_of_doo: What's up with the B1G not investigating abusive coaches? This should have been right up there when the B1G was looking at Rutgers.

I still wonder what the B1G knew about Sandusky.


I'm sure Rutgers did everything it could to hide this particular turd under the rug while they were applying to the BIG.  The BIG wouldn't have let them join if they knew about this (probably).  More likely Rutgers wanted to get their joining the conference to be official before any news broke about this.

And I doubt the conference knew anything about Sandusky.  It isn't a conference's job to keep track of former assistant coaches and the work those coaches do with university-affiliated charities.  PSU was solely responsible for all of that garbage.
 
2013-04-07 12:56:44 PM  

ongbok: Why else would somebody who was held in such high regards as a defensive coordinator not get a single offer from another school after he step down at PSU.


I thought it was because he was old and retired?  Or maybe he didn't apply to other jobs?  I don't know, but there are a lot of simpler explanations than "the entire NCAA knew he was a pedophile and therefore didn't offer him a job but also nobody said anything to protect Joe Paterno/PSU."
 
2013-04-07 01:02:03 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: ongbok: Why else would somebody who was held in such high regards as a defensive coordinator not get a single offer from another school after he step down at PSU.

I thought it was because he was old and retired?  Or maybe he didn't apply to other jobs?  I don't know, but there are a lot of simpler explanations than "the entire NCAA knew he was a pedophile and therefore didn't offer him a job but also nobody said anything to protect Joe Paterno/PSU."


The guy was supposed to be a defensive genius and Paternos heir apparent. You don't think its odd he didn't even interview or get offers once he quit?
 
2013-04-07 01:02:55 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: legion_of_doo: What's up with the B1G not investigating abusive coaches? This should have been right up there when the B1G was looking at Rutgers.

I still wonder what the B1G knew about Sandusky.

I'm sure Rutgers did everything it could to hide this particular turd under the rug while they were applying to the BIG.  The BIG wouldn't have let them join if they knew about this (probably).  More likely Rutgers wanted to get their joining the conference to be official before any news broke about this.


Sure, sports is driving a lot of conference expansions, but, for the Big Ten, it's a slightly different story. Rutgers and Maryland will bring with them nearly a billion (with a b) dollars per year of funding to the CIC.
 
2013-04-07 01:06:26 PM  

MFAWG: HMS_Blinkin: ongbok: Why else would somebody who was held in such high regards as a defensive coordinator not get a single offer from another school after he step down at PSU.

I thought it was because he was old and retired?  Or maybe he didn't apply to other jobs?  I don't know, but there are a lot of simpler explanations than "the entire NCAA knew he was a pedophile and therefore didn't offer him a job but also nobody said anything to protect Joe Paterno/PSU."

The guy was supposed to be a defensive genius and Paternos heir apparent. You don't think its odd he didn't even interview or get offers once he quit?


And also when he "retired" he was not old for a coach, his age would have put him in the range of most head coaches.
 
2013-04-07 01:11:05 PM  

MFAWG: The guy was supposed to be a defensive genius and Paternos heir apparent. You don't think its odd he didn't even interview or get offers once he quit?


I don't know.  Did he apply anywhere?  Express an interest in working anywhere?  If you make clear that you're "retiring," people usually don't bother you to come work for them.  To me it's less odd that he didn't get offers (that we know of) than it would be odd for hundreds of NCAA people to know about his "hobbies" and not say a peep.

I don't have any inside information on this, but I'm just applying Occam's Razor here.  Institutional incompetence is more likely than some vast cover-up.  Especially when there aren't super clear motives for said cover-up....why not just have Paterno throw Sandusky under the bus publicly if everyone already knew about this and was trying to protect Paterno?  That would make Paterno into an even bigger hero for turning in his friend to save the children.

KiwDaWabbit: Sure, sports is driving a lot of conference expansions, but, for the Big Ten, it's a slightly different story. Rutgers and Maryland will bring with them nearly a billion (with a b) dollars per year of funding to the CIC.


Just like the BIG will bring an enormous sum of money to Rutgers and MD.  Rutgers had a VERY vested interest in keeping this shiat quiet if they wanted to get on the BIG gravy train.
 
2013-04-07 01:12:39 PM  

ongbok: MFAWG: HMS_Blinkin: ongbok: Why else would somebody who was held in such high regards as a defensive coordinator not get a single offer from another school after he step down at PSU.

I thought it was because he was old and retired?  Or maybe he didn't apply to other jobs?  I don't know, but there are a lot of simpler explanations than "the entire NCAA knew he was a pedophile and therefore didn't offer him a job but also nobody said anything to protect Joe Paterno/PSU."

The guy was supposed to be a defensive genius and Paternos heir apparent. You don't think its odd he didn't even interview or get offers once he quit?

And also when he "retired" he was not old for a coach, his age would have put him in the range of most head coaches.


In retrospect, it all makes sense...too much sense, but I don't remember anyone really questioning it at the time. Granted, this was close to a decade and a half ago now and the media has shifted quite a bit since then.

KiwDaWabbit: Sure, sports is driving a lot of conference expansions, but, for the Big Ten, it's a slightly different story. Rutgers and Maryland will bring with them nearly a billion (with a b) dollars per year of funding to the CIC.


I wanted to note that their addition of Nebraska was an exception to this. That one was primarily about sports and them being so butthurt by Texas. That being said, people will call me crazy, but I think North Carolina and Virginia are going to be the final two defectors to the Big Ten with Georgia Tech being a fairly strong alternative to Virginia.
 
2013-04-07 01:22:41 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: Just like the BIG will bring an enormous sum of money to Rutgers and MD.  Rutgers had a VERY vested interest in keeping this shiat quiet if they wanted to get on the BIG gravy train.


True, but we all know how businesses work. Good businesses profit from whomever they pay. I'm not sure how many peoples' minds that crossed earlier this week when CNN came out with a comparison that showed Kobe Bryant's total compensation per minute was $162.55 while an American minimum wage earner's was $0.12. That's because Kobe brings in millions in profit margin to his employers while a minimum wage earner1 might be asking if you want fries with that.

So, sure, there is reciprocation between the Big Ten and Rutgers/Maryland, but the Big Ten will ultimately walk away with much, much more.

1Full disclosure: I'm all for making the U.S. minimum wage higher...a good amount higher.
 
2013-04-07 01:36:28 PM  

KiwDaWabbit: So, sure, there is reciprocation between the Big Ten and Rutgers/Maryland, but the Big Ten will ultimately walk away with much, much more.


In gross terms, yes.  But Maryland's athletic dept has been losing money (lots of money) for years and years now.  Just by joining the BIG, they will literally become profitable overnight, without having to do anything to improve their operations, programs, etc.  I don't know about Rutgers' financial situation, so maybe the don't need the money as badly, but if the difference is between operating in the red and operating in the black, then that's a HUGE relative difference, even if the conference gains more in gross revenue.   The BIG, on the other hand, is already highly profitable, and while they obviously want more money, they don't NEED it to stay in business.

To me there are two possibilities.  Either the BIG knew about Rice and figured the potential fallout was worth less than the benefit of adding the NJ TV market, or Rutgers kept it quiet (and the BIG didn't ask a bunch of questions) because they figured that the revenue-sharing they'd get from the BIG would be worth their trouble if they could just keep it under wraps until the invitation was official.  I figure the latter is more likely, but that's just me.
 
2013-04-07 01:41:38 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: legion_of_doo: What's up with the B1G not investigating abusive coaches? This should have been right up there when the B1G was looking at Rutgers.

I still wonder what the B1G knew about Sandusky.

I'm sure Rutgers did everything it could to hide this particular turd under the rug while they were applying to the BIG.  The BIG wouldn't have let them join if they knew about this (probably).  More likely Rutgers wanted to get their joining the conference to be official before any news broke about this.


I just would have thought the B1G would have done a little more homework having just gone through the Penn State/Sandusky issue.

As a fan of the B1G, it's really disappointing to have another stupid thing blow up in the conference even before that program joins. You would think that the B1G was totally desperate to grab another school, and I would hope that wasn't the case.

You'd think Jim Delaney had more sense, but he keeps doing his best to prove us wrong.

/bring in an academic school with totally impeccable athletics next. I'm tired of this shiat.
 
2013-04-07 01:52:04 PM  

legion_of_doo: I'm tired of this shiat.


I'm tired of it too, and I totally agree with your whole post.  I like the BIG and I don't want them to be desperate to add teams or to add scummy teams that aren't up to conference standards just for the TV market.

I'm trying to give the BIG the benefit of the doubt on this one---maybe they did do their homework, but Rutgers was just really clever in covering it up?  I mean, there's a reason it's called "due dilligence" and not "North Korea levels of paranoia dilligence."

Without knowing anything else, it seems possible to pin this turd on Rutgers alone.
 
2013-04-07 01:52:55 PM  

legion_of_doo: I just would have thought the B1G would have done a little more homework having just gone through the Penn State/Sandusky issue.

As a fan of the B1G, it's really disappointing to have another stupid thing blow up in the conference even before that program joins. You would think that the B1G was totally desperate to grab another school, and I would hope that wasn't the case.

You'd think Jim Delaney had more sense, but he keeps doing his best to prove us wrong.

/bring in an academic school with totally impeccable athletics next. I'm tired of this shiat.


It may be my cynicism, but I don't think "academic schools with totally impeccable (I assume you mean non-corrupt) athletics" exist except in maybe the Ivy League. Again, I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that's a commentary on the current state of college athletics.

What I don't get is how people still carry with them a sort of hubris with the way the world works now. We can get into the sociopathology of people in positions of power and all of that, but you'd still think there's got to be some shred of reason bouncing around in their skulls. Rutgers is just the latest athletic department to go from being fine on the surface to being a dumpster fire in less just over 48 hours.
 
2013-04-07 01:54:15 PM  
less

Stupid nasty habit of changing thoughts in mid-sentence...
 
2013-04-07 02:34:53 PM  
Six days later, in the same room where Mr. Pernetti spoke that day, Mr. Murdock screened the footage of Mr. Rice.

I like this Murdock guy.  He knows how to say 'F*ck You!' with a bonus cockpunch.
 
2013-04-07 02:57:39 PM  

KiwDaWabbit: What I don't get is how people still carry with them a sort of hubris with the way the world works now. We can get into the sociopathology of people in positions of power and all of that, but you'd still think there's got to be some shred of reason bouncing around in their skulls. Rutgers is just the latest athletic department to go from being fine on the surface to being a dumpster fire in less just over 48 hours.


I can accept money in big time college athletics, or simple corruption. Scandal is one thing, but this is a different sort of deal.

What I despise is yet another abuser in the coaching ranks in the B1G.  Sandusky was one kind of predator, and this Rice guy seems to be another kind of sociopath.  How the B1G keeps whiffing on this... it's sickening.
 
2013-04-07 03:29:18 PM  

KiwDaWabbit: legion_of_doo: I just would have thought the B1G would have done a little more homework having just gone through the Penn State/Sandusky issue.

As a fan of the B1G, it's really disappointing to have another stupid thing blow up in the conference even before that program joins. You would think that the B1G was totally desperate to grab another school, and I would hope that wasn't the case.

You'd think Jim Delaney had more sense, but he keeps doing his best to prove us wrong.

/bring in an academic school with totally impeccable athletics next. I'm tired of this shiat.

It may be my cynicism, but I don't think "academic schools with totally impeccable (I assume you mean non-corrupt) athletics" exist except in maybe the Ivy League. Again, I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that's a commentary on the current state of college athletics.

What I don't get is how people still carry with them a sort of hubris with the way the world works now. We can get into the sociopathology of people in positions of power and all of that, but you'd still think there's got to be some shred of reason bouncing around in their skulls. Rutgers is just the latest athletic department to go from being fine on the surface to being a dumpster fire in less just over 48 hours.


If Pernetti had fired Rice when first shown the evidence of Rice's behavior, this would have been a scandal for about a day, and people would have moved on thinking Rice was a douchebag, and that would have been the entirety of it.  But he gets a mysterious suspension in the middle of the season, and months later Outside the Lines comes to the public with the video that shows why there was this odd suspension that Rutgers didn't want to talk about.  So not only is Rice now under a greater microscope, Pernetti completely mishandles the incident a second time by saying "we've dealt with this matter".  So in addition to the coach looking like an ass, the AD stains the entire department.  And then the university looks bad because they're not sure they want to fire the guy who got them the B1G deal just because he completely mishandled the inexcusable behavior of his coach AND the subsequent PR.
 
2013-04-07 04:40:55 PM  
I know this may be going a little far for a discussion centered around sports, but, in the macro sense, we (i.e., the U.S.) see ourselves as a culture of rehabilitation when, in reality, we're a culture of punishment. Anecdotal as it may be, if I had a nickel for every time I've heard "Michael Vick did his time, so we should all move on.", I'd have a bunch of nickels.

I'm typically a cynic, so this could be my naïve side talking, but I think that the argument that Pernetti was trying to somehow put Rice on a path of rehabilitation rather than punishment carries some validity. The argument that Pernetti was a douchebag trying to quash a would-be scandal along with having a sentimental attachment to Rice (with Rice being his first big hire) is equally as valid.

Me? I really think that Pernetti over thought the room and was probably leery of being seen as someone just shooting from the hip (you know, like "W") and having no regard for the policies and procedures in place. That's in the context of the "bubble" he would have been in at Rutgers. So, what was painfully obvious to the general public (i.e., the idea that Rice should have been terminated immediately), who pretty much only ever knew of Rice through those video clips, was maybe not so black and white to Pernetti, who was in the weeds. In retrospect, Pernetti farked up and lost his job for it, and the context was not an unmitigated bad faith effort as it was at Penn State.
 
2013-04-07 08:26:04 PM  

legion_of_doo: What's up with the B1G not investigating abusive coaches? This should have been right up there when the B1G was looking at Rutgers.


Rutgers hasn't seen the NCAAs in twenty-two years. They were 11-21 under Rice. I think the B1G gave even less of a fark about Rutgers basketball as they did Nebraska basketball.
 
2013-04-08 01:05:27 AM  
I wanna see a scandal at an esteemed liberal arts college in which everyone "knows" something is wrong with how the chairman of the English department conducts his classes but nobody says anything because all his students -- the ones who survive his abusive ways -- come out so well-grounded in the classics.
They get into the best graduate programs, too.
 
2013-04-08 09:47:18 AM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: I wanna see a scandal at an esteemed liberal arts college in which everyone "knows" something is wrong with how the chairman of the English department conducts his classes but nobody says anything because all his students -- the ones who survive his abusive ways -- come out so well-grounded in the classics.


Similar happened with a business professor at Penn - google Scott Ward.
 
2013-04-08 11:20:46 AM  
It is a little bit easier to be a whistleblower when you're not worried about having your scholarship(s) pulled.
 
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