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(NPR)   Americans hold about $1 trillion in student loans, and the debt burden is only getting heavier, and few students are asking questions about what type of loans--if any--they should take   (npr.org) divider line 260
    More: Scary, Americans, student loans, loans, students, Jacki Lyden  
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5753 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Apr 2013 at 3:21 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-07 01:47:30 AM  
meh.
that means the average loan amount is only $27k for a college education.

Sounds like a bargain.
 
2013-04-07 01:54:51 AM  
When I was in school we had a Financial Aid office that they sent you to "to find out what your options were."

They had a form you had to fill out, and the only thing they were interested in getting anyone was loans. They were really insistent that the loans were the way to go.

I went out on my own and found scholarships and grants. I can't imagine how many of my classmates just shrugged and borrowed the money.
 
2013-04-07 01:55:14 AM  
oh, what a surprise.  The example they give is Emmanuel, the English major, who didn't know that he could discharge the debt through bankruptcy.

Oh, and Emmanuel is hardly typical since he owes almost 3x the average debt.
 
2013-04-07 02:09:30 AM  
 
2013-04-07 02:19:00 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: " Jason Iuliano, ... did a comprehensive search of bankruptcy cases in which borrowers sought to discharge student loans; he found that in four out of 10 cases, judges erased all or part of the debt. Here's the rub: Only 0.1 percent of student loan borrowers who declared bankruptcy actually tried to get their loans forgiven!"


So you're essentially saying that only 40% get any help on their student loans.  After going through the additional hoops of an adversary procedding.  ALL OF OUR PROBLEMS ARE FARKING SOLVED!  THANKS OBAMA

 
2013-04-07 02:26:36 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: he found that in four out of 10 cases, judges erased all or part of the debt.


That wording sends off my potential BS meter.  Without more information, it's possible that judges are only knocking a small percentage of the student loan debt in most of the cases.  Lumping a person getting 25k out of 25k in debt forgiven in with a person getting 5k out of a 100k loan forgiven is misleading at best.
 
2013-04-07 02:37:01 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: " Jason Iuliano, ... did a comprehensive search of bankruptcy cases in which borrowers sought to discharge student loans; he found that in four out of 10 cases, judges erased all or part of the debt. Here's the rub: Only 0.1 percent of student loan borrowers who declared bankruptcy actually tried to get their loans forgiven!"


And one more thing before I go to bed, I wonder if this person is lumping cosigned loans into this statistic.  Cosigned loans are incredibly dumb, but they happen, and I assume couldn't be discharged without all signors going through the bankruptcy, and if only some are that would not be able to be discharged.
 
2013-04-07 03:25:30 AM  

unlikely: I went out on my own and found scholarships and grants. I can't imagine how many of my classmates just shrugged and borrowed the money.


Your Fark handle is quite fitting. I did not qualify for scholarships or grants, because I was fairly average in all respects.
 
2013-04-07 03:30:10 AM  
Wonder how much it costs to go to Greendale Community for 4 years.
 
2013-04-07 03:31:07 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: oh, what a surprise.  The example they give is Emmanuel, the English major, who didn't know that he could discharge the debt through bankruptcy.

Oh, and Emmanuel is hardly typical since he owes almost 3x the average debt.


BZZT!  Student loan debt CANNOT be discharged in bankruptcy.

This includes federally subsidized loans, unsubsidized loans, as well as private-bank "student" loans.  That last one is essentially just a personal loan, but because it has the word "student" in its description, it is therefore NOT dis-chargeable in bankruptcy.  Ever.  This was part of some of the "reforms" that the banks rammed through a while ago.  Around 2002 or so.
 
2013-04-07 03:31:15 AM  
This free market thing is only good for some people.  We really need to have fewer private schools and pay for all school not just K-12.
 
2013-04-07 03:32:02 AM  
Put student loan debt on credit card. File BK. Done.
 
2013-04-07 03:32:04 AM  
So now Great Lakes owns my loans. That can only be good news, right?
 
2013-04-07 03:32:52 AM  
Yeah, another wonderful gift from the Boomers and Unkie Ron's political fallout. In less than 10 years, expect stories about a major population decline on the horizon as my generation postpones having kids because we're struggling with loan payments.
 
2013-04-07 03:34:01 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: meh.
that means the average loan amount is only $27k for a college education.

Sounds like a bargain.


And only a 3.4% interest rate. You pay less than $1K a year in interest. Sounds like a bunch of whiny kids to me.
 
2013-04-07 03:36:40 AM  
And, of course, the students need to ask themselves:  "Am I getting a degree that will even let me pay back this loan?"

Keep in mind, the more obscure degree you're going for, most likely you'll have a LOT better odds at getting financial aid.

Any women want to have their college tuition paid up / heavily subsidized?  Go for mining, chemical, or ocean/aerospace engineering.
 
2013-04-07 03:39:10 AM  

SirHolo: tenpoundsofcheese: oh, what a surprise.  The example they give is Emmanuel, the English major, who didn't know that he could discharge the debt through bankruptcy.

Oh, and Emmanuel is hardly typical since he owes almost 3x the average debt.

BZZT!  Student loan debt CANNOT be discharged in bankruptcy.

This includes federally subsidized loans, unsubsidized loans, as well as private-bank "student" loans.  That last one is essentially just a personal loan, but because it has the word "student" in its description, it is therefore NOT dis-chargeable in bankruptcy.  Ever.  This was part of some of the "reforms" that the banks rammed through a while ago.  Around 2002 or so.


I thought that went back to the late 70s and was part of a knee-jerk reaction on the part of the government and the public to a handful of kids who used student loans to finance their educations, then immediately declared bankruptcy once they go their degrees.
 
2013-04-07 03:41:21 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: And, of course, the students need to ask themselves:  "Am I getting a degree that will even let me pay back this loan?"

Keep in mind, the more obscure degree you're going for, most likely you'll have a LOT better odds at getting financial aid.

Any women want to have their college tuition paid up / heavily subsidized?  Go for mining, chemical, or ocean/aerospace engineering.


Or, if they are attractive enough, they can always go find some rich fark to be their Sugar Daddy.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/02/04/college-students-become-sugar -b abies-to-pay-for-school/
 
2013-04-07 03:42:27 AM  
Small business.  A student loan buys you debt and a place in line.  A bodega buys you an income and a 5 year break even point.  A degree doesn't.
 
2013-04-07 03:42:47 AM  
Former employee of mine is in his early 40s and said once he still had student loans to pay off.

/difficulty: not an MD or lawyer
//had ours paid off in late 20s
 
2013-04-07 03:44:33 AM  

JonathanChance: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/02/04/college-students-become-sugar -b abies-to-pay-for-school/


it sounds like prostitution, but is it?

yeah.
 
2013-04-07 03:46:29 AM  
Wow, if you want a free education so bad, go move to secular Europe.

This is America, a free country. Either you tough it up and make it yourself, or you don't make it at all. This is what has made us a country that isn't failing like socialist countries are everywhere today.

Hundreds of thousands of vets built up a middle class in this country after World War II and didn't biatch once about student loan debt or government handouts. I'd say all of this is sad from this generation but I expect nothing less from Obama's America.
 
2013-04-07 03:47:53 AM  

organizmx: This is what has made us a country that isn't failing like socialist countries are everywhere today.


Yeah, Sweden is f*cked.

organizmx: I'd say all of this is sad from this generation but I expect nothing less from Obama's America.


3/10
 
2013-04-07 03:48:16 AM  
These would be the same morons who applied for million dollar mortgages whilst working at McDonalds. There are no well paid jobs in the US any more for most students, as your economy is in the shiat.
 
2013-04-07 03:48:46 AM  
3.4% would be a bargain...except there are 6.8, 8, and 9% student loans. The worst of which come from pre-signing in the fall for grant money that disappears in the spring semester- and is turned into private loans
 
2013-04-07 03:53:07 AM  

organizmx: Hundreds of thousands of vets built up a middle class in this country after World War II and didn't biatch once about student loan debt or government handouts


And hundreds of draft dodgers got elected in the 80s and started gutting that middle class.
 
2013-04-07 03:53:17 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: that means the average loan amount is only $27k for a college education.


Think of the slightly used BMW that money would have bagged though.


FTA : It's the biggest consumer debt besides mortgages, eclipsing both auto loans and credit cards

Just about where it stands among those four in the rankings of "good debt" then.
 
2013-04-07 03:53:35 AM  
I get paid to attend the university. Suck my cock.
 
2013-04-07 03:58:40 AM  

James F. Campbell: I get paid to attend the university. Suck my cock.


Do I have to pay you first?
 
2013-04-07 04:07:25 AM  
Yeah, but now they have a totally useful piece of paper which gives them permission to get an entry level job completely unrelated to their course of study, so that in a few years time once they are trained for their real profession they can start to pay back the interest on the..... ok hahahaha sorry i couldnt go any further.

fark the American "education" system.
 
2013-04-07 04:09:52 AM  

Alonjar: the American "education" system  industry.


As soon as something becomes primarily about money, the thing that it's purported to be about is the thing it used to be about.
 
2013-04-07 04:20:31 AM  
I have student loan debt.  It sucks.  I didn't go to college until I was 23.  Until then I had zero debt.  Then I got the student loans.  My college recruiters and all the brochures about how wonderful college was explained how much money I could be making, how 90%+ get jobs before they even graduate, some employers even pay off some or all of the student loans so on and so forth...

Not the truth.  I kept in contact with many of my school mates following graduation.  None of them got well paying jobs after graduation.  It was over a year after I graduated until I got a job, 2 until I managed to get an entry level job in the field of my study that was populated with people who didn't have degrees, where the person who hired me explained that it was a tough job market and people with 20 years of experience were applying for the entry level job...and you know what, it doesn't matter if the only job you get after graduating from college only pays $8.50/hour before taxes and benefits, your student loan people aren't going to accept too broke to pay back the loan.

If I ever manage to talk to my younger self I'd tell him to skip college. It put me tens of thousands of dollars into debt, never got a job that paid enough to justify the debt in the field of study, and I would have been better off getting a real estate license or something.
 
2013-04-07 04:25:54 AM  
As someone who was stupid enough to get some $40k in student loans, let me give a piece of advice for those considering them...


Don't. Just don't. Do whatever you can to not take student loans because it was probably the dumbest thing I've ever done.
 
2013-04-07 04:29:44 AM  

12349876: BarkingUnicorn: he found that in four out of 10 cases, judges erased all or part of the debt.

That wording sends off my potential BS meter.  Without more information, it's possible that judges are only knocking a small percentage of the student loan debt in most of the cases.  Lumping a person getting 25k out of 25k in debt forgiven in with a person getting 5k out of a 100k loan forgiven is misleading at best.


Why forgive any of the loan, if you cant pay it back dont take it out. College/Uni isnt neccesary for everyone
 
2013-04-07 04:37:53 AM  

barnacleboy: 12349876: BarkingUnicorn: he found that in four out of 10 cases, judges erased all or part of the debt.

That wording sends off my potential BS meter.  Without more information, it's possible that judges are only knocking a small percentage of the student loan debt in most of the cases.  Lumping a person getting 25k out of 25k in debt forgiven in with a person getting 5k out of a 100k loan forgiven is misleading at best.

Why forgive any of the loan, if you cant pay it back dont take it out. College/Uni isnt neccesary for everyone


B,but... if you go to college you get the good job with a future and you can wear a suit and not get your hands dirty and be a success!  Man, it scares me that people who go into hock for a degree because they go for that sh*t don't even know what decade it is.  For those of you aspiring non-science or CS degree hopefuls who haven't looked at a calendar or a news story in 30 years, there are go "good jobs with a future".  It's plug and play and you better learn to pucker up and pretend it smells like roses and make sure you paid out the ass to become a cog in a company that looks at you like a disposable, leased asset.
 
2013-04-07 04:38:00 AM  
Too many people r going to college.  As a result, not enough take it seriously.
 
2013-04-07 04:39:36 AM  

rev. dave: This free market thing is only good for some people.  We really need to have fewer private schools and pay for all school not just K-12.




Notsureifserious.jpg
 
2013-04-07 04:39:38 AM  
I can understand that lenders really want student loans not to be dismissed in bankruptcy, they are, after all, unsecured personal loans to very young people who don't currently have jobs that will pay for the loans.   It isn't like a mortgage where the bank can kick you out of your house and sell it if you default.

However, that creates really perverse incentive.   With a very low risk of the student being able to default on a student loan, schools can push kids into what ever degree the kid seems to want, even if there is no chance they will get a job to pay for it.   Worse, quack universities that really don't educate you now have a way of getting a lot of income with very little risk.   A fool and their money should be soon parted and lenders should be on the hook for the risks that "cool sounding STEM degree" that really can only get a student in to some front line help desk (if that), could cause them to lose the money the foolishly loaned out.
 
2013-04-07 04:39:58 AM  
The cheap kind.
 
2013-04-07 04:41:31 AM  
The whole system is farked up.

1. Encourage everyone to go to college because you are loser otherwise.  They start this propaganda in grade school.
2. Offer loans for college, even to people who have no business being there.
3. Make said loan stick around even after a bankruptcy.
4. Colleges rack up the cost of tuition to absurd levels.  The rate universities have increased their fees is obscene.

Universities with huge endowments, e.g. Yale, could offer a 100% free ride to every single student they admitted and their money would still increase because they have so much invested.  FYI, Yale has close to $20 billion in endowments and earned almost 22% on that investment in 2010.  They have absolutely no farking excuse for not taking in more low income students (other than their extreme elitist attitude).
 
2013-04-07 04:43:28 AM  

rev. dave: This free market thing is only good for some people.  We really need to have fewer private schools and pay for all school not just K-12.


This is anything BUT a free market system.  Since the banks are guaranteed the loans will be paid, they have every incentive to give loans to anyone and everyone.  In a free market, the banks would have to balance the risk factors.
 
2013-04-07 04:44:01 AM  

rebelyell2006: unlikely: I went out on my own and found scholarships and grants. I can't imagine how many of my classmates just shrugged and borrowed the money.

Your Fark handle is quite fitting. I did not qualify for scholarships or grants, because I was fairly average in all respects.


Pshaw!  Average people can get education grants.  I know.  I've seen me do it.  Then I declined a biggish grant because I was going through some stupid quarter-life crisis and dropped out of school 3 or 4 classes from a degree.  That grant would have paid my tuition, rent, and fed me so I really have no excuse for my choice.  Fortunately, life turned out pretty good.

But there's free money out there for average students if they can fill out an application, string enough words together to form a coherent essay, and look sincere for an interview or two.
 
2013-04-07 04:47:28 AM  
In b4 social autists (STEM majors) loudly brag about how they don't have to deal with debt because their degree is "in demand" or a "marketable skill".
 
2013-04-07 04:47:36 AM  

bunner: barnacleboy: 12349876: BarkingUnicorn: he found that in four out of 10 cases, judges erased all or part of the debt.

That wording sends off my potential BS meter.  Without more information, it's possible that judges are only knocking a small percentage of the student loan debt in most of the cases.  Lumping a person getting 25k out of 25k in debt forgiven in with a person getting 5k out of a 100k loan forgiven is misleading at best.

Why forgive any of the loan, if you cant pay it back dont take it out. College/Uni isnt neccesary for everyone

B,but... if you go to college you get the good job with a future and you can wear a suit and not get your hands dirty and be a success!  Man, it scares me that people who go into hock for a degree because they go for that sh*t don't even know what decade it is.  For those of you aspiring non-science or CS degree hopefuls who haven't looked at a calendar or a news story in 30 years, there are go "good jobs with a future".  It's plug and play and you better learn to pucker up and pretend it smells like roses and make sure you paid out the ass to become a cog in a company that looks at you like a disposable, leased asset.


Exactly, never went to college or uni, have a job with a suit.
Unless you go to study something needed there is no point.

Just find something with an entry level that only requires common sense and basic education and work up, developing with your employer.
 
2013-04-07 04:51:04 AM  
If I had a kid, or knew someone who wanted advice on this, I would say:

Don't do what I did. Don't take out loans. Take up a skilled trade before you go to college so you have a source of real income rather than living on minimum wage work or loans. If you do go to college, constantly think "how can I make money with this?" If you want to do something that isn't going to pay you serious money, do it as a second major (art history, literature, languages, etc.). If you get a chance at a job in the field before graduation, take it. Also, do a lot of different things in high school so you know what you like and are good at beforehand - take shop, be in band, don't skip anything you haven't tried before.

It's not romantic, it's almost mercenary. But the choice is lots of debt or financial freedom.

That said, despite the rah-rah about the economy right now, I think that unless you have built and maintained a solid foothold you are in danger - for most grads who have effectively zero "real world" experience, it's not easy. And it's not getting easier.
 
2013-04-07 04:54:44 AM  

OgreMagi: rev. dave: This free market thing is only good for some people.  We really need to have fewer private schools and pay for all school not just K-12.

This is anything BUT a free market system.  Since the banks are guaranteed the loans will be paid, they have every incentive to give loans to anyone and everyone.  In a free market, the banks would have to balance the risk factors.


The free market thing applies to the fact that people are allowed a choice between public/community schools and the more 'prestigious' and costly private institutions. State schools are cheap, NYU isn't. As long as private schools are allowed to offer expensive and more elitist diplomas then people will be forced to buy into them in order to stay ahead of the others.

That's not a good thing. Either shut down all private schools or put price controls on their tuition or we'll exacerbate inequality even before people start their careers.
 
2013-04-07 04:55:46 AM  
And of course, the problem is that the classical, liberal, renaissance education is now out of reach because it's college =  vocational school or starve..
 
2013-04-07 04:56:58 AM  
Students don't ask because many don't have a choice.
 
2013-04-07 04:57:46 AM  

super_grass: That's not a good thing. Either shut down all private schools or put price controls on their tuition or we'll exacerbate inequality even before people start their careers.


That's sort of the plan, atm.  Power isn't money.  Power is controlling your access to basic needs and making other people do your work.
 
2013-04-07 05:01:22 AM  

jtown: rebelyell2006: unlikely: I went out on my own and found scholarships and grants. I can't imagine how many of my classmates just shrugged and borrowed the money.

Your Fark handle is quite fitting. I did not qualify for scholarships or grants, because I was fairly average in all respects.

Pshaw!  Average people can get education grants.  I know.  I've seen me do it.  Then I declined a biggish grant because I was going through some stupid quarter-life crisis and dropped out of school 3 or 4 classes from a degree.  That grant would have paid my tuition, rent, and fed me so I really have no excuse for my choice.  Fortunately, life turned out pretty good.

But there's free money out there for average students if they can fill out an application, string enough words together to form a coherent essay, and look sincere for an interview or two.


....unless you HAVE a degree and want to go back for another. Then you are screwed, because the government has decided one degree is enough for a lifetime. If you want a second bachelor's, or need a degree in something other than what you already have--it's the loan factory for you, babe, and you'll like it.
 
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