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(NBC News)   Pastor Rick Warren's son no longer living a purpose driven life   (usnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 229
    More: Sad, Rick Warren, Mission Viejo  
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11350 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Apr 2013 at 11:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-04-06 04:49:34 PM
24 votes:
I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"
2013-04-06 09:35:40 PM
15 votes:
As much as I would want to blame this on Warren being horrible, the reality is that people often commit suicide for reasons completely independent of how the people who love them treat them. We don't have any reason to think Warren did anything to cause this.
2013-04-06 08:50:35 PM
13 votes:

WTF Indeed: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Just returning the favor.

What does that even mean?


It means Rick Warren has offended me many, MANY times over the years, through is preaching and indoctrinating the servile f*ckwits who fill his pews.  I feel no qualms - not one - about insulting him.
2013-04-06 08:36:02 PM
13 votes:

WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.


Just returning the favor.
2013-04-06 07:30:20 PM
13 votes:
Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.
2013-04-06 10:34:28 PM
9 votes:

TheXerox: What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement, and that his parents were giving him crap about it without actually knowing any of the facts or any of the other circumstances behind this poor man's death.


Pattern recognition.
2013-04-06 10:07:11 PM
9 votes:
Mental illness can be terminal regardless of sexual orientation, race, creed, economic status, etc. It's incredibly sad when anyone feels that ending their life is their only respite, and we should all understand it and feel sorrow for one who has felt so low, so useless, so helpless and hopeless. The Warrens could have been incredibly supportive of their son, and given him all the best treatments, and this still could have been the end result. Stop the inane conjecture.
2013-04-07 12:29:18 AM
8 votes:
wonkette.com

Not only is your statement a lie but the irony that a millionaire pastor who is tax exempt would say this is not lost on me.
2013-04-06 09:22:38 PM
8 votes:

Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"


This may come as a surprise to you, but people struggle with mental illness quite irrespective of their sexual orientation. I've known some very mentally ill people who happened to be gay/lesbian and it really had nothing to do with 'being scarred' by their parents.
2013-04-07 12:21:30 AM
7 votes:
Yeah, it's super sad that some poor, nice kid was suffering and decided to kill himself. I don't think any person with a heart would disagree.

But when that kid's father is a public figure who proclaims that homosexuality is a mental disorder, and then his son kills himself after struggling with a mental disorder, you do have to farking jump to some conclusions.
2013-04-07 12:12:27 AM
7 votes:

chewielouie: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

This. I've read some sick twisted crap on Fark, but this is some is new pathetic low. Wow.


If you don't think "gay" when the "sweet kind son" of a virulently anti-gay millionaire pastor commits suicide then son, you haven't been paying attention.
2013-04-06 09:59:15 PM
7 votes:

Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"


GAT_00: Hoban Washburne: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

If that is the case, the parents deserve every bit of pain/sadness/guilt they are feeling and then some.

There's no reason a pastor like this would feel guilty about driving his gay son to suicide.


Benevolent Misanthrope: "At 27 years of age, Matthew was an incredibly kind, gentle and compassionate young man whose sweet spirit was encouragement and comfort to many," Saddleback Church said in the statement. "Unfortunately, he also suffered from mental illness resulting in deep depression and suicidal thoughts."

Ah.  So he was gay.  Jeebus gave him an illness to make him go away.

/FOAD, Rick Warren and all his ilk



What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement, and that his parents were giving him crap about it without actually knowing any of the facts or any of the other circumstances behind this poor man's death. Disagreeing with somebody is fine, but it is no reason to act like such a jackass when something like this happens to their family, show some class.
2013-04-06 09:06:20 PM
7 votes:

Peter von Nostrand: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Guy was probably gay. He was told he had a mental illness and almost assuredly never gained acceptance from his dad. But we're the ones that are pathetic and insulting

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight


Given who his father was, that mental illness was almost certainly homosexuality.  Having your father blasting you indirectly on a national stage, knowing he's talking directly about you, must have been psychologically crippling.

It's just what a good Christian would do to his gay son.
2013-04-07 03:03:13 AM
6 votes:

jkl65s4: Haven't read all the comments, but it's very possible that he just struggled to fit in. There's a lot of social expectations with Christianity...


It's also entirely possible that his mental-health issues had nothing whatsoever to do with his or his father's religious beliefs, and as far as I am aware, no positive correlation has been found between membership in a religious community and predisposition towards mental illness. If there is any such research, I'm all ears, but I currently suspect that neither has any bearing on the other.

 Kevin72:Of course I'm serious. I did not have proof that the son was gay so I toned down my rhetoric to calling it speculation and opinion. But I will say that it is not hateful to speculate that the son was gay. Only someone who hates gays would say that it is hateful to speculate that the son was gay.

Huge gay-rights backer here. Speculating on his sexuality, if not hateful, feels inappropriate to me, for three related reasons.

First, there is close to zero evidence regarding his sexuality. It is true that gay men are somewhat more likely to be depressed (which is both understandable and tragic), but it's not a huge effect; the incidence of homosexuality among depressed people is not enormously higher than it is among the general population. There are dozens and dozens of factors that have been linked to depression, and I'm not seeing anyone speculating on any of the others. As far as I can see, the only reason that homosexuality is even being brought up is that it would make a compelling narrative: A high-profile bigot callously causes pain to thousands and thousands of people he cares nothing about, but in the end that same bigotry causes the suicide of the person he likely cares most about in the world. Bam: a cautionary parable, gift-wrapped with a bow, complete with hubris, downfall, and a moral worthy of Aesop. However, narrative is primarily a tool of fiction, and I'm seeing no evidence that The Tale of The Pastor and His Son is anything but fiction. Speculation might not be hateful, but it is baseless.


Second, it is disrespectful to both the elder and the younger Warren to create such a narrative. The first is fair game, to be sure--he is a disrespectful man who leads a disrespectful life. His son, however, has never harmed anyone, to the best of my knowledge. He was a tortured, lonely man, who led such a miserable internal life that he decided death was preferable. I do not believe he ever put himself in any spotlight. To me, it seems as though people here are baselessly ascribing him a particular motivation for death, a particular sexuality, a particular daily struggle and a particular relationship to his father, none with the slightest scrap of evidence, and all so that others can use him as the posthumous star of a morality play aimed against his family. Speculation might not be hateful, but it is disrespectful to a young man who has done you no harm.

Third, I think that ascribing him a sexuality acts to diminish the legitimacy of mental health disorders. This is by no means your intent, I am sure, but I think it has that effect regardless. To say "well he must have been gay" is to suggest that depression, by itself, is not explanation enough.There are tens of thousands of suicides every year. Nearly every suicide had been tortured to the end by a condition that has complex manifestations and even more complex causes. Depression is a common disease. It is often misdiagnosed. It is often resistant to treatment. It is often fatal. To imply that a lifetime of mental health struggles is insufficient to explain a suicide--and that something with more pizzazz, like a closeted fear of a bigoted father, must be substituted--comes across as somewhat smug to me. Speculation might not be hateful, but it is delegitimizing.
2013-04-07 01:08:14 AM
6 votes:
i658.photobucket.com
2013-04-07 12:22:56 AM
6 votes:
Alright, retards who think "suffered from mental illness" means "was gay:"

How exactly would you word it for a straight person who was, oh I dunno, SUFFERING A MENTAL ILLNESS? Serious question, because I always thought there was a legitimate meaning to "mental illness," but apparently you all seem to think it's only used in code...
2013-04-07 12:21:31 AM
6 votes:
Can't we all agree that it would suck to have Rick Warren as a dad?
2013-04-06 10:16:36 PM
6 votes:
I wonder if Westboro will protest at the funeral. It would be like dividing by zero.

That said, I do feel bad for the family. This sucks no matter who you are. I have no reason to doubt that the pastor loved his son and this will be a difficult time. They will spend a lot of time in introspection and turmoil over whether or not they could've done something differently. They might not find any easy answers.

Maybe they'll learn something. Maybe they'll just chalk it up to god's will or the work of satan and that would be too bad.
2013-04-07 02:22:51 AM
5 votes:

bugontherug: I'm sorry he suffered so much he wanted to die. But his father's pain is karmic justice.


No. It's not. His pain is that of a father who's lost his son. His politics and beliefs have nothing to do with this. You can try to converge the two, but I don't think that's a door you should be too keen on opening.

Should all wrongs be brought back against the wrongdoer in such karmic fashion? Should every one of our misdeeds and failings as human beings be trudged before us in our hour of suffering as a way for the rest of the world of saying "AHA! See, had you not been such an asshole your son/daughter/wife/husband would still be alive!"

Yes, there are people out there like Warren who are intolerant of homosexuals, just as there were those who used their influence against blacks and women in previous decades. Do all of them have karmic justice coming? Does every tragedy that befalls their family need to be framed as punishment for their transgressions?

That this man is a bigoted prick, there's little doubt. People like him should be fought and opposed, but we can't lose sight of the fact that he's still a human being who's lost his son. Or we can effectively picket his son's funeral, like some perverted Westboro churchists, claiming that it was his actions that brought it upon himself. I don't know about you, but I have no desire to be grouped in with that lot.
2013-04-07 12:45:58 AM
5 votes:
I don't really see the point in jumping to conclusions. Rick Warren would be a sucky father if you were straight, if you were his gay son life would truly be hell on earth. But more often than not mental illness means mental illness. You all could end up being right, but for now you're simply standing on a young man's grave to throw shiat on his father.
2013-04-07 12:35:07 AM
5 votes:

Bisu: Alright, retards who think "suffered from mental illness" means "was gay:"

How exactly would you word it for a straight person who was, oh I dunno, SUFFERING A MENTAL ILLNESS? Serious question, because I always thought there was a legitimate meaning to "mental illness," but apparently you all seem to think it's only used in code...


know how we know you have no idea who Warren is?


He rails about homosexuality being a mental disorder, among many other things.


Now, lets use a modicum of logic: son of hate mongering preacher suffers depression/mental illness. What can cause depression? Possibly having having a parent who tells the world that what you are inside is deeply evil and to be shunned? Just maybe?



Lets then extend this situation, tragic as it is (I feel for the man who took his own life, the warren family can go EABOD collectively for how many years they have set back humanity) to other situations where a high profile family or person who rails against homosexuality has a "dark secret" (in terms of their beliefs, not mine), usually that they or a close family member is gay or has had homosexual encounters.

So, while the man likely did have mental issues, a lot of us are pointing out that they were quite possibly brought about by the actions of the father and his vehemence against something the son may have identified with.
2013-04-07 12:27:43 AM
5 votes:

ilikeracecars: picturescrazy: Wow some of you guys are disgusting. Makes me ashamed to be a Democrat tonight.u

What does anything here have you being ashamed of being a Democrat?


Because people here are being horrible representatives of the left. "We hate bigotry so let's gloat in the suicide of someone who we suspect was gay. "
2013-04-07 12:22:25 AM
5 votes:

thenumber5: while being no  Rick Warren fan

it has been know for while his son suffered from extreme depression, this has nothing to do with some BS about him being shamed for being gay or anything like that


This. Suicide is a sad conclusion no matter what the circumstances. Don't let your hate for an asshole diminish the fact that a troubled young man took his life, no matter what the reason. Try to be human, just for a second or two.
2013-04-07 12:15:29 AM
5 votes:
Wow some of you guys are disgusting. Makes me ashamed to be a Democrat tonight.u
2013-04-07 12:06:29 AM
5 votes:

Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"


That was my first thought too.

RenownedCurator: Oh God, not this "dog whistles" BS. Yeah, people use coded language sometimes, but all too often "dog whistle" seems to mean "They didn't say it, but I think they wanted to, therefore they really said it in a code interpretable only by me." If he really was gay, why on earth would the Saddleback people include even a coded reference to a trait they presumably didn't want remembered? And considering the prevalence of depression and many other mental illnesses which have nothing to do with who you like to fark, it's perfectly possible that the guy was indeed suffering from one of those and killed himself as a result. And really, to act like conservatives have some sort of lock on mocking someone's death is idiotic. Anyone remember when the Duggars miscarried their last pregnancy? I can't stand the Duggars, but even I was pretty freaked out by the vitriol.


These kind of people literally treat homosexuality as a mental disease that needs to be cured.  It might not be "coded" language from their view point.
2013-04-07 12:03:40 AM
5 votes:
Oh God, not this "dog whistles" BS. Yeah, people use coded language sometimes, but all too often "dog whistle" seems to mean "They didn't say it, but I think they wanted to, therefore they really said it in a code interpretable only by me." If he really was gay, why on earth would the Saddleback people include even a coded reference to a trait they presumably didn't want remembered? And considering the prevalence of depression and many other mental illnesses which have nothing to do with who you like to fark, it's perfectly possible that the guy was indeed suffering from one of those and killed himself as a result. And really, to act like conservatives have some sort of lock on mocking someone's death is idiotic. Anyone remember when the Duggars miscarried their last pregnancy? I can't stand the Duggars, but even I was pretty freaked out by the vitriol.
2013-04-06 10:23:12 PM
5 votes:

WTF Indeed: You really enjoy jerking off to the suicide of someone you've never met and know nothing about, don't you?


Why would you feel the need to make a sexual parallel when talking about a suicide?
2013-04-06 10:10:53 PM
5 votes:

TheXerox: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

GAT_00: Hoban Washburne: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

If that is the case, the parents deserve every bit of pain/sadness/guilt they are feeling and then some.

There's no reason a pastor like this would feel guilty about driving his gay son to suicide.

Benevolent Misanthrope: "At 27 years of age, Matthew was an incredibly kind, gentle and compassionate young man whose sweet spirit was encouragement and comfort to many," Saddleback Church said in the statement. "Unfortunately, he also suffered from mental illness resulting in deep depression and suicidal thoughts."

Ah.  So he was gay.  Jeebus gave him an illness to make him go away.

/FOAD, Rick Warren and all his ilk


What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement, and that his parents were giving him crap about it without actually knowing any of the facts or any of the other circumstances behind this poor man's death. Disagreeing with somebody is fine, but it is no reason to act like such a jackass when something like this happens to their family, show some class.


The article is full of evangelical dogwhistles regarding a gay son.  Rick Warren does not get a pass for being a fundie asshat just because his son died, yes, tragically.

But this must be the kinder, gentler Fark, where we don't offend and insults are verboten.
2013-04-06 08:36:35 PM
5 votes:
That's sad, suicides always suck.
2013-04-06 06:03:27 PM
5 votes:
"At 27 years of age, Matthew was an incredibly kind, gentle and compassionate young man whose sweet spirit was encouragement and comfort to many," Saddleback Church said in the statement. "Unfortunately, he also suffered from mental illness resulting in deep depression and suicidal thoughts."

Ah.  So he was gay.  Jeebus gave him an illness to make him go away.

/FOAD, Rick Warren and all his ilk
2013-04-06 05:08:55 PM
5 votes:

Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"


If that is the case, the parents deserve every bit of pain/sadness/guilt they are feeling and then some.
2013-04-07 03:06:42 AM
4 votes:
I tend to make my absolute hatred of fundies known whenever a thread comes up about them, but while I know part of the above is trolling and part of it is just "This is Fark, let's be cruel.  Welcome to Fark" I really just wanted to say that those of you being serious should be ashamed of yourselves.  There's absolutely nothing there to jump to the conclusion you have, not even a "coded message," other than the fact that you deplore his father's intolerance.  But you come across just as badly as he does, in your willingness to cast everything else to the side to make your point.  A kid with mental problems killed himself.  It's sad.  It isn't a reason to make things up wholesale (yes, I'm sorry, morons, who are shouting about Occam's Razor and code words -- this is, indeed, exactly what you've done.).  You're posting with an almost near sadistic glee over someone you hate's child killing himself.  There is absolutely no value nor honor in such an emotion, however justified you think it is.

This is one of the few times I've felt ashamed to be a part of this community, and especially to read such absolute horrid thoughts coming from people I otherwise agree with.

Even if you end up being right, you really made yourselves look bad here, and I can't even remotely imagine how you can possibly be proud of the things you've posted.
2013-04-07 01:57:48 AM
4 votes:

violentsalvation: Bullshiat. Everything you typed is bullshiat.


Everything I typed is objective reality.

Rick Warren fails to condemn gay execution bill:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT &o q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT&gs_l=serp.3...6014.10863.0.11338.26.13.0.0.0. 1.2730.2730.9-1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.8.psy-ab._ZG5YRfSRsE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,o r.r_qf.&fp=849a5b668cddd045&biw=1280&bih=635

Rick Warren compares homosexuals to child molesters--and I want to be clear here, I really understated this. He didn't just compare homosexuals to child molesters. He compared them to violent criminals and rapists too. He argued that just as child molesters shouldn't be permitted to marry children, neither should homosexuals be permitted to marry each other:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT &o q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT&gs_l=serp.3...6014.10863.0.11338.26.13.0.0.0. 1.2730.2730.9-1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.8.psy-ab._ZG5YRfSRsE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,o r.r_qf.&fp=849a5b668cddd045&biw=1280&bih=635

I cannot adequately link Rick Warren to enlisting youth to harass homosexuals. I'm sorry I said that. Nonetheless, his years of spewing bile against homosexuals conclusively prove 1) that not everything I said is bullsh*t, and 2) that he is an evil man.
2013-04-07 01:32:42 AM
4 votes:
There's no hate like liberal hate.
2013-04-07 01:04:54 AM
4 votes:
Has anyone brought up the fact that a severely depressed, mentally ill person was allowed to purchaes or somehow got a gun?

Thank Jeebus for that Second Amendment!
2013-04-07 01:00:43 AM
4 votes:

thorthor: thenumber5: while being no  Rick Warren fan

it has been know for while his son suffered from extreme depression, this has nothing to do with some BS about him being shamed for being gay or anything like that

This. Suicide is a sad conclusion no matter what the circumstances. Don't let your hate for an asshole diminish the fact that a troubled young man took his life, no matter what the reason. Try to be human, just for a second or two.


Rick Warren has never tried to be human, even for a second or two. He has repeated the same anti-gay crap which contributed to the persecution, suffering, and suicide of innumerable homosexuals.1 He has, for example, categorized them with child molesters and argued that they should be treated similarly to them.

With any luck, whether or not his son was gay, this incident will give him pause to reflect on the evil he has vomited into the world from his pulpit. Is it okay to defame people based on their sexual orientation  when doing so contributes to an atmosphere so belligerent that it drives many of them to suicide? How many parents have experienced the same grief I feel today because of the anti-gay attitudes I've so long endorsed?

With any luck he'll think thoughts like that, and grow as person for it. But I doubt it.

1Note to evangelicals: homosexuals have actually been persecuted in America.
2013-04-07 12:58:22 AM
4 votes:

Musikslayer: Actually, it's based on Occam's Razor, as it's the most likely scenario.


That's the stupidest use of Occam's Razor I've ever heard.  The most likely scenario is that he was depressed and killed himself. You people, with no proof whatsoever, are insisting he was gay and his father rejected him.

Occam's Razor, if you bother to apply it correctly, focuses on the solution that requires the fewest assumptions. You people are assuming the son was gay AND that the father treated him like shiat because of it.  That's absurd, stupid, and not a correct application of Occam's Razor at all.
2013-04-07 12:54:14 AM
4 votes:
bummer, the wrong Warren killed himself.
2013-04-07 12:53:23 AM
4 votes:
I have to say that, even for Fark, this thread is unbelievably shiatty, starting with the headline.

The is nothing in the media about this guy being gay, and he was 27 yrs old.

Unless you have inside knowledge on this guys mental state please stfu.
2013-04-07 12:51:15 AM
4 votes:
2013-04-07 12:37:52 AM
4 votes:

Relatively Obscure: lostcat: Relatively Obscure: lostcat: Bisu: Alright, retards who think "suffered from mental illness" means "was gay:"

How exactly would you word it for a straight person who was, oh I dunno, SUFFERING A MENTAL ILLNESS? Serious question, because I always thought there was a legitimate meaning to "mental illness," but apparently you all seem to think it's only used in code...

See, there's this idea of karma that a large number of people on this planet believe in to varying degrees.

Karma would suggest that if you have an asshole who preaches that gay people are sick and wrong and will burn in hell for their "choice" to be sick and wrong, you have to wonder if the universe doesn't have a shiat sandwich ready to serve up in the offing.

So, wait... this dude says dickish and shiatty things about gay people and others, so the universe makes his son supposedly gay, makes his son suffer from depression, and makes his son kill himself to teach dad a lesson?

Man, you guys are waaaayyyy over-thinking this.

Sorry, I don't get the karma deal is all.


1. Millionaire preacher tells the world that homosexuality is a mental disorder and that homosexuals need to get help to live healthy lives in the eyes of God.
2. Son of said preacher, kills himself (tragically) and the preacher's statement indicates that his son struggled with a mental disorder.
3. Story get's greenlit on Fark, where people have a tendency to:
      a.   Jump to conclusions based on what would make the story most interesting/ironic/humorous/etc.
      b.   Overlook the tragedy in a story to get to the interesting/ironic/humorous bit.

I don't see why this should be any different.
2013-04-07 12:34:14 AM
4 votes:

Ahhh_Ennui: Mental illness can be terminal regardless of sexual orientation, race, creed, economic status, etc. It's incredibly sad when anyone feels that ending their life is their only respite, and we should all understand it and feel sorrow for one who has felt so low, so useless, so helpless and hopeless. The Warrens could have been incredibly supportive of their son, and given him all the best treatments, and this still could have been the end result. Stop the inane conjecture.


He wasn't mentally ill. He was gay. "Mentally ill" was a closet the parents put him into because they couldn't possibly have a gay son even though they did.
2013-04-07 12:31:37 AM
4 votes:

Bisu: Alright, retards who think "suffered from mental illness" means "was gay:"

How exactly would you word it for a straight person who was, oh I dunno, SUFFERING A MENTAL ILLNESS? Serious question, because I always thought there was a legitimate meaning to "mental illness," but apparently you all seem to think it's only used in code...


Because if Rick Warren said someone suffered from a mental illness, he's going to be referring to homosexuality, because that farktard thinks homosexuality is a mental illness.  And if it was any actual mental illness, Warren would have probably helped his son and got him treatment.

Occam's Razor says his son was gay and killed himself because his father is a raging douche.
2013-04-07 12:24:04 AM
4 votes:

WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.


"GAY" is NOT an insult. God does not create trash. The son was gay and the parents trashed him about it until he couldn't take the hurt any more. And now the parents are hurting? But their dead gay son is not hurting now.
2013-04-07 12:23:02 AM
4 votes:
Someone who was likely a kind, loving person, has died, folks. Hate his dad, fine, don't treat the son like crap. No matter how hateful the things Rick Warren has said, he's still a dad, and there is very little in this world that is more painful than a parent having to bury their own child.

Rick Warren is a sick, twisted asshole who will deservedly be forever mocked by history as he already majorly is due to his barbaric and backward attitude. Animals like that though still know what it's like to love their child though. Just let that be.
2013-04-07 12:15:28 AM
4 votes:
Sometimes mental illness is a daily fight just to function, So I feel for the guy. I've been diagnosed with depression, and take mood stabilizers.
Alcohol doesn't help. I've drank until I pass out, many times.
Just have to try to stay focused.
2013-04-07 12:10:13 AM
4 votes:

WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.


This. I've read some sick twisted crap on Fark, but this is some is new pathetic low. Wow.
2013-04-07 12:05:53 AM
4 votes:
while being no  Rick Warren fan

it has been know for while his son suffered from extreme depression, this has nothing to do with some BS about him being shamed for being gay or anything like that
2013-04-06 11:19:26 PM
4 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: You really enjoy jerking off to the suicide of someone you've never met and know nothing about, don't you?

Why would you feel the need to make a sexual parallel when talking about a suicide?


It's a phrase used to express pleasure. So I ask again, why are you getting pleasure from the suicide of someone you've never met and know nothing about?
2013-04-06 11:19:24 PM
4 votes:

Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"


Hoban Washburne: If that is the case, the parents deserve every bit of pain/sadness/guilt they are feeling and then some.


Benevolent Misanthrope: Ah. So he was gay.


Cup Check: Unfortunately, more than likely this!


Peter von Nostrand: Guy was probably gay.


So... do any of you have any evidence of this, or is this just a weird thing people are going to be doing today?
2013-04-06 10:00:16 PM
4 votes:

Codenamechaz:

Filtered

Benevolent Misanthrope:

Also filtered.

ecmoRandomNumbers:

Filtered again.

Peter von Nostrand:

Damn filter.

GAT_00:

Still..., damn it!

DamnYankees:

You're cool.

Somacandra:

You are too.

violentsalvation: That's sad, suicides always suck.


This.
2013-04-06 05:10:33 PM
4 votes:

Hoban Washburne: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

If that is the case, the parents deserve every bit of pain/sadness/guilt they are feeling and then some.


There's no reason a pastor like this would feel guilty about driving his gay son to suicide.
2013-04-07 11:31:44 AM
3 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: The article and statement are full of evangelical dogwhistles indicating allusions to a gay child.

And by the way to the haters and white knighters - I never said I was happy about this.  I am sad and angry.  But Rick Warren has said that I deserve all kinds of awful things, including burning in hell for all eternity because of being born gay.  He can fark right off, son or no son.


Except this isn't about Rick Warren.  This is about Matthew Warren- you know, the guy who actually killed himself.

It's about his long-term fight against an enemy inside head.  It's about the pain he went through having his own emotions turn against him from the inside out.  It's about a lifetime of medications, and side effects, and days spent hating himself for the trouble he put his friends and loved ones through.  And it's about him hitting that One Bad Day, the could-have-been-anything that finally tips the scale for good.

But his pain isn't good enough for some of the people here, because it doesn't hurt his daddy enough.  He needs to have had this other pain over here, instead, because that would make the story all nice and neat.  So let's just pretend that's what really happened, shall we?  Who cares what he actually lived with, or felt, or died over.  This story's better.

Let's all pretend that Matthew's pain was a reflection of your pain.  That makes it all worthwhile.


...that's the problem.
2013-04-07 02:51:01 AM
3 votes:
It's truly amazing the amount of hate Farkes/Liters have for people with religious beliefs/moderate/conservative political views.

Especially because they are liberal/Leftist and brag about their tolerance.

That is the true mental illness around here: being tolerant here means you can heap scorn on someone
(Welcometofark/jpg) and gloat about a man who committed suicide because you hate his father.

PLUS the default mode that the guy HAD TO BE A HOMOSEXUAL and his father's beliefs drove him to kill himself.

You're all sick farkers and in the worst possible way.
2013-04-07 01:45:07 AM
3 votes:

TheXerox: msupf: Actually, yes, that behavior from the family can be reconciled with the son being gay. The depression could have been a result of him being told his (possibly) gay nature was unnatural, a sin, an illness, etc. etc. people in his position have consistently gone along with the program just to avoid punishment or having to stay in whatever anti-gay program they were in. Being taught to loath what you are inside can lead to all kinds of mental issues, and while the person may seem functioning decently on the outside (working in the family church, spending time with the family amicably), something inside is breaking and they can, and have, committed suicide based largely on having had to play a charade for so long (appearing to be straight when in their heart they are gay, or other applicable scenarios).

That's kind of why acceptance by the majority of the population has been a big reason suicide rates of gay youths has actually been declining (albeit by not nearly enough, as LGBT youths are still at the highest risk for suicide than pretty much any other demographic, and invariably because of how they are constantly told they are an aberration, evil, making a 'choice' and can easily be straight if they just really prayed or tried hard enough, etc. etc. etc.).

Yes, it is also very possible that the son was just disturbed in the normal mental illness way, but it is equally as possible that he was gay and killed himself in a bout of depression stemming from his family's treatment towards him and/or their attempts to change who he was.


Way to miss the point. You still have yet to offer up a shred of proof that the poor guy's depression was about him being gay. Until we hear one way or the other, anything which posits that he was gay is uninformed speculation at best. Even then, you don't suppose there might be other unknown reasons for someone with depression (regardless of who their parents are) to kill themself?




Notice how at the end I said it was equally possible for either of these outcomes to be right at this point?
You are right, all we know is that his family says he was mentally disturbed and suffered depression. We don't, and likely never will know, what specifically he was treated for, what the medications were, and we may likely never know who all he saw for treatment (and thusly what they specialized in treating). We also know that, given who his family is, there would be good reason for them to refer to a gay family member as being mentally ill. Then I pointed out very plausible scenarios that have happened hundreds of times that we know of in the past ten years or so that would give credence to the thought that the son was gay.

Why dismiss it out of hand when the other (actually mentally ill instead of gay) scenario is equally devoid of concrete information at this point?
2013-04-07 01:22:11 AM
3 votes:

miss diminutive: [i110.photobucket.com image 584x600]

A person took their own life, most likely because they could no longer handle the pain of living. I consider myself to be a pretty calloused and jaded girl, but jeez.

/yeah yeah, welcome to Fark


You wouldn't react so negatively to Jewish persons (or anyone else) evincing no sympathy for a grieving neo-Nazi leader. You'd say "someone who sh*ts this kind of evil into the world has no legitimate complaint when the targets of his attacks don't wish him deep condolences."

That is the appropriate response to Rick Warren's grief, too.
2013-04-07 01:04:16 AM
3 votes:

lostcat: Gyrfalcon: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Just returning the favor.

What does that even mean?

It means Rick Warren has offended me many, MANY times over the years, through is preaching and indoctrinating the servile f*ckwits who fill his pews.  I feel no qualms - not one - about insulting him.

Is there some reason you feel the need to insult his son, though?

I may have missed it, but I don't think anyone here is insulting the son and celebrating his death.


Everyone here is speculating on his sexuality and assuming he killed himself because daddy hated him for being gay. Is there some reason you can't let the poor kid just die a depressed death because he was depressed, without tabloid presumptions about his personal life?
2013-04-07 01:00:20 AM
3 votes:
Poor Kid.  Hope he's found peace.   As much as I don't like mega churches, and social conservatives, much sympathy to the Warren's, as a parent, I can imagine the grief and guilt they must be feeling.
2013-04-07 12:57:46 AM
3 votes:

Hobodeluxe: [wonkette.com image 490x205]

Not only is your statement a lie but the irony that a millionaire pastor who is tax exempt would say this is not lost on me.


I didn't know he was a teabaggy type as well.  What a lying douchebag, may it's time to start taxing these churches...

www.charlock.org
2013-04-07 12:53:31 AM
3 votes:

GAT_00: picturescrazy: GAT_00: Bisu: Alright, retards who think "suffered from mental illness" means "was gay:"

How exactly would you word it for a straight person who was, oh I dunno, SUFFERING A MENTAL ILLNESS? Serious question, because I always thought there was a legitimate meaning to "mental illness," but apparently you all seem to think it's only used in code...

Because if Rick Warren said someone suffered from a mental illness, he's going to be referring to homosexuality, because that farktard thinks homosexuality is a mental illness.  And if it was any actual mental illness, Warren would have probably helped his son and got him treatment.

Occam's Razor says his son was gay and killed himself because his father is a raging douche.

From TFA:"In spite of America's best doctors, meds, counselors, and prayers for healing, the torture of mental illness never subsided," Warren wrote to church members.

But go ahead and keep justifying your joy at someone's death because you hate his father.

Because Warren thinks you can pray or "cure" the gay.  So of course he would say the mental illness never went away.


That statement doesn't even make sense, you twit.

You despise the guy's ideology.  Fine.  But, you know, it's possible, just possible that not every event in his life is perfect, high octane fuel for your hate engine.

/who am i kidding... if it turns out he suffered from paranoid schizophrenia, your position will doubtless be "well, he totally WOULD have driven a gay son to suicide (which I know because magic), so I was totally justified for hating him all the more for the hypothetical son he hypothetically killed"
2013-04-07 12:51:39 AM
3 votes:

Kevin72: Relatively Obscure: Kevin72: The son was gay and the parents trashed him about it until he couldn't take the hurt any more.

Seriously, are you guys getting this information from somewhere I can access?  Has it been widely documented that his son was gay and I just haven't been reading the right articles or something?

His father defined homosexuality as a mental illness. It conveniently allowed his father to call Matthew mentally ill and give him "conversion therapy" rather than man up to having a gay son.


I know the basics of what his father thought about homosexuality.  That isn't evidence that his son was homosexual.  Maybe he was, but I've no evidence of it.  I'm betting his father said a lot of other things were mental illnesses, too, and I can't really assume those apply to his son automatically, either.
2013-04-07 12:51:16 AM
3 votes:

Gyrfalcon: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Just returning the favor.

What does that even mean?

It means Rick Warren has offended me many, MANY times over the years, through is preaching and indoctrinating the servile f*ckwits who fill his pews.  I feel no qualms - not one - about insulting him.

Is there some reason you feel the need to insult his son, though?


I may have missed it, but I don't think anyone here is insulting the son and celebrating his death.
2013-04-07 12:46:23 AM
3 votes:
Count me in as one of the people who thinks that this kid's family life was directly related to his mental illness and suicide.
2013-04-07 12:40:59 AM
3 votes:

GAT_00: Relatively Obscure: GAT_00: Occam's Razor says his son was gay and killed himself because his father is a raging douche.

No, it doesn't.  Where the fark did people learn about Occam's Razor?

The logic follows.  He would hide any actual mental illness in his family since it would be embarrassing.  Only homosexuality would actually be a harmful mental illness to label someone with to someone like Warren.  And following that, if I was gay and had a father like Warren, I would be suicidal too.


What would he have written if his son had suffered from a combination of NON-BEING-GAY mental disorders? Would he have listed them out, or just wrote "suffered from mental illness?" Because I'm gonna have to say Occam's Razor suggests the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you think it does.
2013-04-07 12:20:18 AM
3 votes:
I feel for the guy.  The challenges he must of faced.  And the environment he must of lived in.  In the end he couldn't navigate it.  And that sucks.  The delusional heartless ass of a father is partially the blame but in the end we all make our own choices.
2013-04-07 12:19:45 AM
3 votes:

Somacandra: Of course, the worst death thread I can remember is still the death of Senator Craig Thomas from leukemia. He was a Republican, so you can pretty well guess where that went.


Question: what's the point in living a decent, kindly life, if people like you insist on giving the same human consideration to total scum?  As you sow, so shall you reap, I believe the thumpers like to say.  And people like Rick Warren have spent their lives sowing hatred and discord.

Sympathy is a bit of a zero-sum game: I cannot express sympathy for people like that without taking it away from those who deserve it more.
2013-04-07 12:09:10 AM
3 votes:
I'm betting his son was gay.

He either came out to his father, was badly rejected, or never came out, and took his life out of desperation.

This Rick Warren is one evil SOB.
2013-04-07 12:06:22 AM
3 votes:
depression sucks. sucks for the family all around. but don't these kind of people also believe that suicides are tormented in hell forever?
2013-04-06 10:18:19 PM
3 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: TheXerox: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

GAT_00: Hoban Washburne: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

If that is the case, the parents deserve every bit of pain/sadness/guilt they are feeling and then some.

There's no reason a pastor like this would feel guilty about driving his gay son to suicide.

Benevolent Misanthrope: "At 27 years of age, Matthew was an incredibly kind, gentle and compassionate young man whose sweet spirit was encouragement and comfort to many," Saddleback Church said in the statement. "Unfortunately, he also suffered from mental illness resulting in deep depression and suicidal thoughts."

Ah.  So he was gay.  Jeebus gave him an illness to make him go away.

/FOAD, Rick Warren and all his ilk


What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement, and that his parents were giving him crap about it without actually knowing any of the facts or any of the other circumstances behind this poor man's death. Disagreeing with somebody is fine, but it is no reason to act like such a jackass when something like this happens to their family, show some class.

The article is full of evangelical dogwhistles regarding a gay son.  Rick Warren does not get a pass for being a fundie asshat just because his son died, yes, tragically.

But this must be the kinder, gentler Fark, where we don't offend and insults are verboten.



Keep talking. You look more and more like a buffoon with every post you make in this thread.
2013-04-06 10:18:11 PM
3 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: TheXerox: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

GAT_00: Hoban Washburne: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

If that is the case, the parents deserve every bit of pain/sadness/guilt they are feeling and then some.

There's no reason a pastor like this would feel guilty about driving his gay son to suicide.

Benevolent Misanthrope: "At 27 years of age, Matthew was an incredibly kind, gentle and compassionate young man whose sweet spirit was encouragement and comfort to many," Saddleback Church said in the statement. "Unfortunately, he also suffered from mental illness resulting in deep depression and suicidal thoughts."

Ah.  So he was gay.  Jeebus gave him an illness to make him go away.

/FOAD, Rick Warren and all his ilk


What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement, and that his parents were giving him crap about it without actually knowing any of the facts or any of the other circumstances behind this poor man's death. Disagreeing with somebody is fine, but it is no reason to act like such a jackass when something like this happens to their family, show some class.

The article is full of evangelical dogwhistles regarding a gay son.  Rick Warren does not get a pass for being a fundie asshat just because his son died, yes, tragically.

But this must be the kinder, gentler Fark, where we don't offend and insults are verboten.


You really enjoy jerking off to the suicide of someone you've never met and know nothing about, don't you?
2013-04-06 10:04:59 PM
3 votes:

GAT_00: Peter von Nostrand: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Guy was probably gay. He was told he had a mental illness and almost assuredly never gained acceptance from his dad. But we're the ones that are pathetic and insulting

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Given who his father was, that mental illness was almost certainly homosexuality.  Having your father blasting you indirectly on a national stage, knowing he's talking directly about you, must have been psychologically crippling.

It's just what a good Christian would do to his gay son.


What's remarkable is that the fark lib trolls have made up a back story out of whole cloth and are criticizing the minister for something he hasn't been accused of doing.  What's even more remarkable is that they're getting defensive about their straw man:

Peter von Nostrand: I'd also point out that the right took plenty of shots at Chelsea and now the Obama girls. So claiming the high ground here is farking hilarious. Had something similar happened to someone identified as being on the left, the usual League of Fail members would be here saying much worse

2013-04-06 09:47:27 PM
3 votes:

Peter von Nostrand: I'd also point out that the right took plenty of shots at Chelsea and now the Obama girls.


Whoa...when did Rick Warren, or any of his church's members, take pride in watching Chelsea Clinton or the Obama girls DIE? I don't think any company actually makes a paintbrush that big.
2013-04-06 09:45:19 PM
3 votes:
This is incredibly sad. And of course, being Fark, this is also going to get very ugly. Take your normal death thread and toss in a religious intensifier. Of course, the worst death thread I can remember is still the death of Senator Craig Thomas from leukemia. He was a Republican, so you can pretty well guess where that went.

i46.tinypic.com
2013-04-06 09:26:19 PM
3 votes:

violentsalvation: That's sad, suicides always suck.


This.
2013-04-06 09:01:58 PM
3 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Just returning the favor.

What does that even mean?

It means Rick Warren has offended me many, MANY times over the years, through is preaching and indoctrinating the servile f*ckwits who fill his pews.  I feel no qualms - not one - about insulting him.


Okay. Just making sure you know how sad and pathetic that is.
2013-04-06 09:01:39 PM
3 votes:

WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.


Guy was probably gay. He was told he had a mental illness and almost assuredly never gained acceptance from his dad. But we're the ones that are pathetic and insulting

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
2013-04-07 06:46:04 PM
2 votes:
According to this thread:

Rick Warren: Sociopath

People getting joy from knowing that Rick Warren's son died because they hate Rick Warren: Totally normal human behavior.
2013-04-07 06:15:59 AM
2 votes:
Until his boyfriend comes out and tells his side of the story, we can only assume this was a legitimate mental illness
2013-04-07 06:05:00 AM
2 votes:

DamnYankees: As much as I would want to blame this on Warren being horrible, the reality is that people often commit suicide for reasons completely independent of how the people who love them treat them. We don't have any reason to think Warren did anything to cause this.


Yep. Unless some reliable info comes in that says otherwise, I agree with this.
2013-04-07 03:30:45 AM
2 votes:
My mom just picked up " the purpose driven life" at a thrift shop. On our last little vacay, she was quoting and preaching bits and pieces at me, acting like she was so high and mighty. I'm sure it would have been much worse if she had actually written the book... And I believe if I would have had to listen to it for more than three days... I probably would have offed myself too. Nothing like a self righteous sinner to make you want to lodge a bullet in your brain.
2013-04-07 03:08:01 AM
2 votes:

TheXerox: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

GAT_00: Hoban Washburne: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

If that is the case, the parents deserve every bit of pain/sadness/guilt they are feeling and then some.

There's no reason a pastor like this would feel guilty about driving his gay son to suicide.

Benevolent Misanthrope: "At 27 years of age, Matthew was an incredibly kind, gentle and compassionate young man whose sweet spirit was encouragement and comfort to many," Saddleback Church said in the statement. "Unfortunately, he also suffered from mental illness resulting in deep depression and suicidal thoughts."

Ah.  So he was gay.  Jeebus gave him an illness to make him go away.

/FOAD, Rick Warren and all his ilk


What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement, and that his parents were giving him crap about it without actually knowing any of the facts or any of the other circumstances behind this poor man's death. Disagreeing with somebody is fine, but it is no reason to act like such a jackass when something like this happens to their family, show some class.


THIS...and I hate Rick Warren
2013-04-07 02:46:19 AM
2 votes:

miss diminutive: bugontherug: I'm sorry he suffered so much he wanted to die. But his father's pain is karmic justice.

No. It's not. His pain is that of a father who's lost his son. His politics and beliefs have nothing to do with this. You can try to converge the two, but I don't think that's a door you should be too keen on opening.

Should all wrongs be brought back against the wrongdoer in such karmic fashion? Should every one of our misdeeds and failings as human beings be trudged before us in our hour of suffering as a way for the rest of the world of saying "AHA! See, had you not been such an asshole your son/daughter/wife/husband would still be alive!"

Yes, there are people out there like Warren who are intolerant of homosexuals, just as there were those who used their influence against blacks and women in previous decades. Do all of them have karmic justice coming? Does every tragedy that befalls their family need to be framed as punishment for their transgressions?

That this man is a bigoted prick, there's little doubt. People like him should be fought and opposed, but we can't lose sight of the fact that he's still a human being who's lost his son. Or we can effectively picket his son's funeral, like some perverted Westboro churchists, claiming that it was his actions that brought it upon himself. I don't know about you, but I have no desire to be grouped in with that lot.


Well said, especially the Westboro parallel. Glorying in the death of someone's child, who was not a public figure and did nothing wrong, is disgusting.
2013-04-07 02:18:56 AM
2 votes:

bugontherug: I cannot adequately link Rick Warren to enlisting youth to harass homosexuals. I'm sorry I said that. Nonetheless, his years of spewing bile against homosexuals conclusively prove 1) that not everything I said is bullsh*t, and 2) that he is an evil man.



1. You assert - WITHOUT EVIDENCE - that Warren's son was gay, and that the reason he committed suicide is BECAUSE he was gay, and was rejected by his father.

2. You celebrate the death of a man - WHO YOU ASSERT WAS GAY - because you want his father to "feel bad".


YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!
2013-04-07 02:14:25 AM
2 votes:

Musikslayer: TheXerox: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

GAT_00: Hoban Washburne: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

If that is the case, the parents deserve every bit of pain/sadness/guilt they are feeling and then some.

There's no reason a pastor like this would feel guilty about driving his gay son to suicide.

Benevolent Misanthrope: "At 27 years of age, Matthew was an incredibly kind, gentle and compassionate young man whose sweet spirit was encouragement and comfort to many," Saddleback Church said in the statement. "Unfortunately, he also suffered from mental illness resulting in deep depression and suicidal thoughts."

Ah.  So he was gay.  Jeebus gave him an illness to make him go away.

/FOAD, Rick Warren and all his ilk


What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement,

Actually, it's based on Occam's Razor, as it's the most likely scenario.

Nobody should blame Warren for his son's death. What they should blame him for is statements like yours, which infers that someone thinking his son was gay is some kind of insult. It might be ironic, or even prophetic, but it's not an insult. If, somehow, assuming that Warren's son was gay makes him icky, then blame Warren for that. It's very sad to see a young man commit suicide, we had one in my family and it is still painful (it was a straight female) after many years. Hopefully, Warren will be able to do a little soul-seaching, he's a pretty bright guy and moderate on many issues.


No, actually, it's not the most likely scenario - suicidal thoughts, depression, etc., are pretty damned common. About 32k people suicide every year (according to wikipedia anyway) - and just like the population at large, the vast majority are - like your family member - heterosexual.

By far the most common reason for suicide is a real mental illness (not homosexuality.) So the reason in TFA is actually the most likely / simplest explanation.
2013-04-07 02:07:44 AM
2 votes:

miss diminutive: iq_in_binary: miss diminutive: bugontherug: Rick Warren most likely supports execution of homosexuals. He refused to condemn Uganda's gay execution until pressured to do so, and then his condemnation was weak and pro-forma. He also compares homosexuals to child molesters, and says they should be treated similarly. He has enlisted Christian youth to emotionally torture homosexuals through harassment and bullying.

Got any proof on any of that? Any direct quotes at all (besides the "most likely supports the execution of homosexuals" which is just simply trying to read someone's mind and just your opinion)?

bugontherug: Rick Warren is an evil man, as evil as any neo-Nazi. All his pain is a positive good added to the world.

How exactly will an "evil" man's pain bring positive good? I mean, sure...the guy is a douche. But is there some kind of documented schadenfreude effect that bestows some kind of benefit to the world from the suffering of assholes?

A healthy belief in karma? I'll take that over all the supposed positive benefits people like Warren claim their imaginary friends have any day.

Pfft, you can't trust that. Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos.


Hey, the cosmos are preached about by people like Neil DeGrasse Tyson. That's a cult I could really dig.
2013-04-07 02:02:27 AM
2 votes:

sex0r: There's no hate like liberal hate.


No liberals are hating. No one knows if the son was gay or not. Its all speculation and opinion. But highly likely, or it wouldn't be speculated or opined. But what kind of person would assume that is being hateful?Someone who hates gays would assume that it is hate to opine that the son was gay.
2013-04-07 02:00:57 AM
2 votes:

bugontherug: violentsalvation: Bullshiat. Everything you typed is bullshiat.

Everything I typed is objective reality.

Rick Warren fails to condemn gay execution bill:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT &o q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT&gs_l=serp.3...6014.10863.0.11338.26.13.0.0.0. 1.2730.2730.9-1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.8.psy-ab._ZG5YRfSRsE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,o r.r_qf.&fp=849a5b668cddd045&biw=1280&bih=635

Rick Warren compares homosexuals to child molesters--and I want to be clear here, I really understated this. He didn't just compare homosexuals to child molesters. He compared them to violent criminals and rapists too. He argued that just as child molesters shouldn't be permitted to marry children, neither should homosexuals be permitted to marry each other:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT &o q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT&gs_l=serp.3...6014.10863.0.11338.26.13.0.0.0. 1.2730.2730.9-1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.8.psy-ab._ZG5YRfSRsE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,o r.r_qf.&fp=849a5b668cddd045&biw=1280&bih=635

I cannot adequately link Rick Warren to enlisting youth to harass homosexuals. I'm sorry I said that. Nonetheless, his years of spewing bile against homosexuals conclusively prove 1) that not everything I said is bullsh*t, and 2) that he is an evil man.


Half the reasons I or any of the other bullied kids in school were bullied because of the stupid shiat their religious parents taught them.

Any parent who preaches the kind of crap that Warren spews out of his detestable mouth is recruiting children to torture other children, homosexual or not.
2013-04-07 01:51:12 AM
2 votes:
Goodie! Another Fark Liberal/Progressive Love, Tolerance and Dignity thread. I love these so much. They show the true colors of their little shriveled souls.
2013-04-07 01:38:18 AM
2 votes:

miss diminutive: You know, I was just thinking to myself "You know what would really spice this thread up a bit? Some Godwin."

A man who's political and theological leanings you disagree with has a grown son who takes his own life under unknown circumstances and you feel that flinging vitriol at him is an appropriate response? Okay, sure.


Rick Warren most likely supports execution of homosexuals. He refused to condemn Uganda's gay execution until pressured to do so, and then his condemnation was weak and pro-forma. He also compares homosexuals to child molesters, and says they should be treated similarly. He has enlisted Christian youth to emotionally torture homosexuals through harassment and bullying.

Rick Warren is an evil man, as evil as any neo-Nazi. All his pain is a positive good added to the world.
2013-04-07 01:31:22 AM
2 votes:

bugontherug: Amos Quito: Admittedly, I know nothing of "Pastor Warren" or his "message", but I DO see many hate-filled people jumping in to attack this guy - who just lost his son - as a pathetically low-brow tool to serve their POLITICAL AGENDA.

David Duke's son commits suicide. Many blacks attack David Duke. You:

"Admittedly, I know nothing of 'David Duke' or his 'message,' but I DO see many hate-filled people jumping in to attack this guy - who just lost his son - as a pathetically low-brow tool to serve their POLITICAL AGENDA."

Though I admit it's not a perfect comparison: David Duke was much less influential in American life than Pastor Warren has been, so really Mr. Duke was responsible for less racism than has Pastor Warren for hatred of homosexuals.


"Earlier this month, at a World AIDS Day event, Pastor Rick Warren gave President Bush a medal for his efforts to end the AIDS epidemic in Africa. And President-elect Obama appeared via satellite at the same conference. In fact, many AIDS activists say Warren's efforts to fight the disease have been exemplary.
Warren has given away millions -- 90 percent of his income, he says -- in a worldwide effort to help end disease and poverty and promote reconciliation. But in the last two months, some of the goodwill Warren has generated across the social spectrum has been put to the test."

The guy is literally Hitler.
2013-04-07 01:30:42 AM
2 votes:
One of my best friends ever came out to his ultra-religious family about 10 years ago. They tried to convince him to get into counseling/therapy. When he told them he wasn't mentally ill, they said he was "in denial" and "refusing treatment". He broke off contact with them, and went on to live a troubled life full of alcohol abuse and depression. I tried to be there for him, but we lived in different cities, had different lives, etc, so there was only so much I could do. About 2 years ago, he was found dead in his apartment. His family are the only ones who know exactly how he died, but I am pretty sure it was a suicide, or possibly an accidental overdose of drugs/alcohol. His family kept his funeral info private, not letting any of his friends come to the funeral or pay their respects, mainly because they knew we all supported HIM, and thought that his family were all a bunch of religious nutjobs. Plus, I am sure they didn't want any of his "mentally ill friends" i.e. other gay people showing up. The obituary for him mentioned his "long struggle with mental illness", and that "he was finally at peace".

I can't say for certain that what happened here was the same as what happened to my friend, but it sure as hell is a possibility. Anyone who says it isn't doesn't know just how farked up some religious people are, and how it can make them treat their own family.
2013-04-07 01:30:17 AM
2 votes:

bugontherug: miss diminutive: [i110.photobucket.com image 584x600]

A person took their own life, most likely because they could no longer handle the pain of living. I consider myself to be a pretty calloused and jaded girl, but jeez.

/yeah yeah, welcome to Fark

You wouldn't react so negatively to Jewish persons (or anyone else) evincing no sympathy for a grieving neo-Nazi leader. You'd say "someone who sh*ts this kind of evil into the world has no legitimate complaint when the targets of his attacks don't wish him deep condolences."

That is the appropriate response to Rick Warren's grief, too.


You know, I was just thinking to myself "You know what would really spice this thread up a bit? Some Godwin."

A man who's political and theological leanings you disagree with has a grown son who takes his own life under unknown circumstances and you feel that flinging vitriol at him is an appropriate response? Okay, sure.
2013-04-07 01:17:04 AM
2 votes:
Judging, judging, judging.  What amusing arrogance.

Based on nothing we know about the dead man's upbringing, lifestyle, history.....

Christians and atheists.  What's the difference?

Degrees of pigheadedness?
2013-04-07 01:09:38 AM
2 votes:
This thread may end up containing a demonstration of every logical fallacy in existence.
2013-04-07 01:09:37 AM
2 votes:

TheXerox: What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement, and that his parents were giving him crap about it without actually knowing any of the facts or any of the other circumstances behind this poor man's death. Disagreeing with somebody is fine, but it is no reason to act like such a jackass when something like this happens to their family, show some class.


^ THIS ^

Admittedly, I know nothing of "Pastor Warren" or his "message", but I DO see many hate-filled people jumping in to attack this guy - who just lost his son - as a pathetically low-brow tool to serve their POLITICAL AGENDA.

Is there any reason to believe that the guy was gay?

Tell you what, according to TFA, the guy WAS depressed, AND was taking "meds", and you MAY have noticed the black box warnings that appear on virtually ALL antidepressants regarding SUICIDAL TENDENCIES?

But no, leverage this as a political tool.

Way to win friends an influence people. It's almost like you're on a mission of self sabotage.

You want "tolerance and compassion"? SHOW SOME.

/Dingbats
2013-04-07 01:04:15 AM
2 votes:

chapman: Holy crap, you are totally going to blow the mind of your freshman philosophy/polysci prof with that solid gold material.  PS.  If you are accused of being an idiot responding with stupid blog material.  Don't respond with shiatty blog material.


There's video of him saying those words.

Keep white-knighting assholes on your own time.

/buh-bye
2013-04-07 01:03:32 AM
2 votes:
This is the dumbest comments thread I've ever read. And I've been around for a while.
2013-04-07 12:56:02 AM
2 votes:
I aint got enough vodak in me to handle this thread
2013-04-07 12:54:27 AM
2 votes:

iq_in_binary: Remember, good parents don't have children that commit suicide.


Yeah, that Mary Tyler Moore, Gregory Peck, and Art Linklater were terrible parents.  In fact, of the 30,000 people who kill themselves in America each year, it is a proven fact that they all had shiatty moms and dads.
2013-04-07 12:53:56 AM
2 votes:

Bisu: Ummm...if you're talking about marriage, then they are. Everyone can legally be married to one person of the opposite gender. Straight people can. Gay people can. Equal rights.  You must wrongly be assuming legal marriage has something to do with sexual attraction to your spouse?


Wow. Just wow.
2013-04-07 12:53:41 AM
2 votes:

iq_in_binary: Relatively Obscure: Musikslayer: What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement,

Actually, it's based on Occam's Razor

No.  No, it isn't.  It's kind of the opposite, almost.

Good parents don't have kids that commit suicide. Good parents get their kids into counseling and help them deal with the depression. Good parents aren't afraid to commit their children to a mental hospital if they feel they are a danger to themselves.


.... now this is the most offensive thing i have ever seen on the internet

///this is coming from a LUEser...
2013-04-07 12:53:36 AM
2 votes:
 Remember that every sucker in the church pays for this guy and his whole family to live.
They pony up their hard earned dollars to this guy to hear a few stories and songs.
It's a suckers game of selling fairy tales for gold...
2013-04-07 12:51:46 AM
2 votes:

Kevin72: Relatively Obscure: Kevin72: The son was gay and the parents trashed him about it until he couldn't take the hurt any more.

Seriously, are you guys getting this information from somewhere I can access?  Has it been widely documented that his son was gay and I just haven't been reading the right articles or something?

His father defined homosexuality as a mental illness. It conveniently allowed his father to call Matthew mentally ill and give him "conversion therapy" rather than man up to having a gay son.


your not helping Gay Rights and Mental Health awareness...

Frankly your hurting it...

///not singling you out, you are now the "Avatar" for all who are championing this line of logic
2013-04-07 12:50:54 AM
2 votes:

Relatively Obscure: Musikslayer: What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement,

Actually, it's based on Occam's Razor

No.  No, it isn't.  It's kind of the opposite, almost.


Good parents don't have kids that commit suicide. Good parents get their kids into counseling and help them deal with the depression. Good parents aren't afraid to commit their children to a mental hospital if they feel they are a danger to themselves.

Rick Warren and his wife failed in so many places, in so many ways, that the only thing there is to do in a healthy society when something like this happens is to make example of people whose failures led to the death of member of it. You mock them. You shame them and punish them. Especially when one of those parents is a public figure who makes his living preying on people's need to belong to something greater than themselves and using cult leader tactics to do it. He terrorizes a minority of people and uses  members of his cult to ostracize and torture children.

Two possibilities: Rick Warren, a millionaire and a man who is extremely susceptible to public opinion, did not have the resources to get his son the treatment he needed; or he did and despite proper treatment his son still committed suicide. That tends to lend a whole hell of a lot of credence to the idea that his son was a member of the very minority Warren abuses in the media daily.

Remember, good parents don't have children that commit suicide.
2013-04-07 12:47:41 AM
2 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Just returning the favor.

What does that even mean?

It means Rick Warren has offended me many, MANY times over the years, through is preaching and indoctrinating the servile f*ckwits who fill his pews.  I feel no qualms - not one - about insulting him.


Is there some reason you feel the need to insult his son, though?
2013-04-07 12:44:14 AM
2 votes:
2013-04-07 12:43:50 AM
2 votes:
Occam's Razor is the idea that the most simple explanation for any event is most often the correct explanation.

This is more Carson's Razor, in which the most entertaining cause of an event is the one that is put forward, correct or not.
2013-04-07 12:41:16 AM
2 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Just returning the favor.

What does that even mean?

It means Rick Warren has offended me many, MANY times over the years, through is preaching and indoctrinating the servile f*ckwits who fill his pews.  I feel no qualms - not one - about insulting him.


Spoken like someone who knows farkalll about Rick Warren other than what them blawgs told them to think.
2013-04-07 12:38:06 AM
2 votes:

picturescrazy: GAT_00: Bisu: Alright, retards who think "suffered from mental illness" means "was gay:"

How exactly would you word it for a straight person who was, oh I dunno, SUFFERING A MENTAL ILLNESS? Serious question, because I always thought there was a legitimate meaning to "mental illness," but apparently you all seem to think it's only used in code...

Because if Rick Warren said someone suffered from a mental illness, he's going to be referring to homosexuality, because that farktard thinks homosexuality is a mental illness.  And if it was any actual mental illness, Warren would have probably helped his son and got him treatment.

Occam's Razor says his son was gay and killed himself because his father is a raging douche.

From TFA:"In spite of America's best doctors, meds, counselors, and prayers for healing, the torture of mental illness never subsided," Warren wrote to church members.

But go ahead and keep justifying your joy at someone's death because you hate his father.


Because Warren thinks you can pray or "cure" the gay.  So of course he would say the mental illness never went away.
2013-04-07 12:37:55 AM
2 votes:

WTF Indeed: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Just returning the favor.

What does that even mean?

It means Rick Warren has offended me many, MANY times over the years, through is preaching and indoctrinating the servile f*ckwits who fill his pews.  I feel no qualms - not one - about insulting him.

Okay. Just making sure you know how sad and pathetic that is.


Shameful and pathetic is campaigning against the equality of other Americans to be treated equally under the law and not being shamed for who they are while making their lives miserable. All while hiding behind the bible.

I would feel the same if Fred Phelps were the object of discussion.
2013-04-07 12:35:54 AM
2 votes:

GAT_00: Bisu: Alright, retards who think "suffered from mental illness" means "was gay:"

How exactly would you word it for a straight person who was, oh I dunno, SUFFERING A MENTAL ILLNESS? Serious question, because I always thought there was a legitimate meaning to "mental illness," but apparently you all seem to think it's only used in code...

Because if Rick Warren said someone suffered from a mental illness, he's going to be referring to homosexuality, because that farktard thinks homosexuality is a mental illness.  And if it was any actual mental illness, Warren would have probably helped his son and got him treatment.

Occam's Razor says his son was gay and killed himself because his father is a raging douche.


From TFA:"In spite of America's best doctors, meds, counselors, and prayers for healing, the torture of mental illness never subsided," Warren wrote to church members.

But go ahead and keep justifying your joy at someone's death because you hate his father.
2013-04-07 12:35:41 AM
2 votes:

Kevin72: He wasn't mentally ill. He was gay.


And to prove it, I submit the following evidence:
2013-04-07 12:30:18 AM
2 votes:
can anyone find a pic of Rick with his son? anywhere?  at any time? even when he was younger?
2013-04-07 12:26:07 AM
2 votes:

Musikslayer: What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement,

Actually, it's based on Occam's Razor


No.  No, it isn't.  It's kind of the opposite, almost.
2013-04-07 12:22:44 AM
2 votes:
cdn2-b.examiner.com
2013-04-07 12:22:32 AM
2 votes:

RenownedCurator: y, why on earth would the Saddleback people include even a coded reference to a trait they presumably didn't want remembered?


Because it's part of the hate the sin love the sinner mentality.

They (Evangelicals) view homosexuality as a mental illness not only degrading those who are homosexual but those with legitimate mental disorders.
2013-04-07 12:21:57 AM
2 votes:
I had no idea so may farkers still thought that gay people were crazy.
2013-04-07 12:20:26 AM
2 votes:
It doesn't matter how much daddy loved him or hated him or reviled him, the choice to kill himself was the boy's. It's sad that such a young guy was in that much pain and wish he had better tools at his disposal, but I'm not going to question his method for ending his suffering. It was his choice to make.
2013-04-07 12:12:10 AM
2 votes:
I've never had to trot this out myself before, but damn...

home.roadrunner.com
2013-04-06 09:27:12 PM
2 votes:

Somacandra: This may come as a surprise to you, but people struggle with mental illness quite irrespective of their sexual orientation. I've known some very mentally ill people who happened to be gay/lesbian and it really had nothing to do with 'being scarred' by their parents.


But those facts don't match their current political agenda, therefore those facts are wrong and you're a right-wing trol for thinking it's not because he was a repressed gay man.
2013-04-06 09:26:11 PM
2 votes:

GAT_00: Peter von Nostrand: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Guy was probably gay. He was told he had a mental illness and almost assuredly never gained acceptance from his dad. But we're the ones that are pathetic and insulting

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Given who his father was, that mental illness was almost certainly homosexuality.  Having your father blasting you indirectly on a national stage, knowing he's talking directly about you, must have been psychologically crippling.

It's just what a good Christian would do to his gay son.


I'd also point out that the right took plenty of shots at Chelsea and now the Obama girls. So claiming the high ground here is farking hilarious. Had something similar happened to someone identified as being on the left, the usual League of Fail members would be here saying much worse
2013-04-07 08:10:03 PM
1 votes:

Musikslayer: Lsherm: Musikslayer: Actually, it's based on Occam's Razor, as it's the most likely scenario.

That's the stupidest use of Occam's Razor I've ever heard.  The most likely scenario is that he was depressed and killed himself. You people, with no proof whatsoever, are insisting he was gay and his father rejected him.

Occam's Razor, if you bother to apply it correctly, focuses on the solution that requires the fewest assumptions. You people are assuming the son was gay AND that the father treated him like shiat because of it.  That's absurd, stupid, and not a correct application of Occam's Razor at all.

When did I say that his father treated him like shiat??? Never. It is you, amigo, that assumed that. I didn't assume that in any way, shape or form. In fact i did the opposite with my Boobies, I said Warren was a bright guy and moderate on many issues. I've never said one negative word about the guy. You did.

Warren Sr may have been the most loving person in the world if one of his own came out, it wouldn't really surprise me. "You people" are the ones making assumptions here, Do a lil googling: young gay men have a much higher rate of suicide. That's a statistic and not an opinion. It doesn't infer anything about Warren. And now go back to Occam's Razor: If young gays have a higher rate of suicide, it takes "fewer assumptions" and clear statistics to put that at/near the top of the list.

Let's cut to the chase: "You people" perceive it as an insult, so you have to put words in mouths for justification. It's not an insult, it's a terrible situation that effects millions of people. There's no "glee" from the left, it's compassion and empathy. What's coming from "you people" is denial, blame and blatant disregard, because you know damn well how it looks. Out of sheer curiosity, if it comes out that the son was gay, what would be your response? Who will you blame for that one?


You're farking retarded.  There's no reason, none at all, to assume his son was gay, except for your own bigoted jollies.  NONE.

If there was any evidence that he might have been gay, then it would make sense to include the assumption.  But there isn't any so far, so it's a stupid assumption to make.  Go back to school, champ.

I wouldn't blame anyone if his son did happen to come out as gay, and I certainly wouldn't credit you people for calling it, because you're calling it for all the wrong reasons.  Like every bigot, you might stumble upon a nugget of truth about a person, but via an incredibly offensive thought process.  You are making the assumption because it fits your own bigoted narrative you've invented in your head about Rick Warren, not because of any "logic" you may apply to the situtation.   Liberals like you are incapable of reason.  You just flit from one emotion to the next and fill in the gaps with made up stories to make yourself feel better, like a racist does if a black person gets shot.

You really need to take some time to reflect on yourself and understand your own bigotry.  It's the only way you'll ever become a better person.
2013-04-07 07:53:50 PM
1 votes:
Ugh. I'm a libby lib with a ghoulish sense of humor but this thread is too much.

I can't say I particularly like the Warren family - at all - but my dislike is not worth their son's life or dignity.
2013-04-07 02:21:35 PM
1 votes:
So uh... I guess we've forgotten that he's a human being and that his suicide is sad?
2013-04-07 01:41:50 PM
1 votes:
When I read 'bout his son killing his self. I said, "this dumb christer is gonna be on FARK". Dumb christer, he probably made his gay son's life a living hell.
2013-04-07 01:23:20 PM
1 votes:
Speaking as a depressed 27-year-old man with a evangelical (now retired) pastor father, maybe he committed suicide because his life was going nowhere, he was under constant pressure from his father, and he can't have a meaningful relationship because his father because he can only think in Bible verses and Fox News talking points.

And I still can't bring myself to gloat because I like to think that deep down I am not an asshole. People who are experiencing schadenfreude over Warren right now are no better than Warren himself. If Warren had been caught in some kind of financial or sexual scandal, or if he was kicked out of the church for being a weapons-grade dickhead, then gloating would be called for, but not here.
2013-04-07 01:13:16 PM
1 votes:

pkjun: It's also entirely possible that his mental-health issues had nothing whatsoever to do with his or his father's religious beliefs, and as far as I am aware, no positive correlation has been found between membership in a religious community and predisposition towards mental illness. If there is any such research, I'm all ears, but I currently suspect that neither has any bearing on the other.


All religious faith IS a form of mental illness, it is merely a matter of degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_disorder
2013-04-07 12:58:18 PM
1 votes:

bugontherug: miss diminutive: [i110.photobucket.com image 584x600]

A person took their own life, most likely because they could no longer handle the pain of living. I consider myself to be a pretty calloused and jaded girl, but jeez.

/yeah yeah, welcome to Fark

You wouldn't react so negatively to Jewish persons (or anyone else) evincing no sympathy for a grieving neo-Nazi leader. You'd say "someone who sh*ts this kind of evil into the world has no legitimate complaint when the targets of his attacks don't wish him deep condolences."

That is the appropriate response to Rick Warren's grief, too.


This is something that needs to be repeated along the tops and bottoms of every single thread on this topic.

Seriously, fark Rick Warren and his feelings.  He certainly doesn't give a shiat about yours!
2013-04-07 12:57:24 PM
1 votes:

Flaming Yawn: I know this isn't the time for him to explain, but: exactly what sort of mental illness? Depression, psychosis, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, autism spectrum disorder...?


He did mention depression, though he seemed to be listing it as a side effect of the illness rather than the illness itself.
2013-04-07 12:55:59 PM
1 votes:

thenumber5: In spite of America's best doctors, meds, counselors, and prayers for healing, the torture of mental illness never subsided," Warren wrote to church members. "Today, after a fun evening together with Kay and me, in a momentary wave of despair at his home, he took his life."

Someone can have the support in the world, with access to the best metnal health care that exists, but not everyone can be "Fix" and when faced with..what ever his trigger event was... they let go of the last tread holding them to this world



Sounds like maybe the "trigger event" was the "fun evening together with Kay and me" Maybe it wasn't all that much fun for Matthew after all.
2013-04-07 12:39:44 PM
1 votes:
You know, a lot of people are saying Warren's son was gay, (which very well may be true) while others claim he simply suffered from depression, and therefore that his father is not to blame at all.

I say that it honestly doesn't matter either way. Whether he was gay or not, he could see how people like his father and his church treated and talked about them. And whether he was prone to mental illness or not is largely irrelevant, when you consider that ANY moral human being with a conscience and a top-level, insider's view of the realities of Rick Warren's grand machine of bigotry and graft would become depressed and struggle with self-loathing. This wouldn't have happened if he were not having a struggle with self-loathing.

In other words, Rick Warren's son had his 'heart of darkness' moment, and he didn't survive it. It's very possible that his morals began to win, and he felt trapped. I mean, how does he get out of that situation cleanly? If he still loved either his father or his church, he wouldn't want them harmed just because he didn't feel like he could be a part of it anymore. A lot of religion is making the person with actual moral objections to feel as if it's their fault, their 'weakness' that keeps them from just happily following along with whatever monstrosity the congregation is urged to engage in. That it's they that are wrong, not the church.

But at the same time, he wouldn't be able to stay. He'd have a harder and harder time keeping silent. Resentment would build, then an unreasoning hatred, both toward his family and himself for not having the courage to say or do anything to stop what he's seeing every day. But from outside, all his family would see would be a slow deterioration in his attitude and/or demeanor in regards to them, their beliefs, and daily activities. And since they couldn't possibly believe that what they're doing as wrong, or immoral, they had to believe he was simply losing his mind.

Which of course he was, but not for the random, or god-inflicted reasons they would like to believe.
2013-04-07 12:25:12 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: If you don't think "gay" when the "sweet kind son" of a virulently anti-gay millionaire pastor commits suicide then son, you haven't been paying attention.


Sadly, pretty much this. Maybe Rick Warren imagines that God commanded him to sacrifice his son

upload.wikimedia.org

Too bad that an angel did not appear at the last minute to stay his hand.

If Matthew Warren was gay, then Magic Johnson and Dick Cheney take the high road over Rick Warren in that they accepted their gay offspring.

Can you list other people who take the high road over Rick Warren by accepting their gay offspring?
2013-04-07 12:12:38 PM
1 votes:

Wasteland: Benevolent Misanthrope: The article and statement are full of evangelical dogwhistles indicating allusions to a gay child.

And by the way to the haters and white knighters - I never said I was happy about this.  I am sad and angry.  But Rick Warren has said that I deserve all kinds of awful things, including burning in hell for all eternity because of being born gay.  He can fark right off, son or no son.

Except this isn't about Rick Warren.  This is about Matthew Warren- you know, the guy who actually killed himself.

It's about his long-term fight against an enemy inside head.  It's about the pain he went through having his own emotions turn against him from the inside out.  It's about a lifetime of medications, and side effects, and days spent hating himself for the trouble he put his friends and loved ones through.  And it's about him hitting that One Bad Day, the could-have-been-anything that finally tips the scale for good.

But his pain isn't good enough for some of the people here, because it doesn't hurt his daddy enough.  He needs to have had this other pain over here, instead, because that would make the story all nice and neat.  So let's just pretend that's what really happened, shall we?  Who cares what he actually lived with, or felt, or died over.  This story's better.

Let's all pretend that Matthew's pain was a reflection of your pain.  That makes it all worthwhile.


...that's the problem.


ONE MORE TIME - I'm sorry for the son.  No one deserves a life of misery.

Rick Warren, who wants my sympathy, can fark off.
2013-04-07 11:52:23 AM
1 votes:

Musikslayer: As I said earlier, maybe Warren will do some soul-searching...


I wonder if he'll find one?
2013-04-07 11:34:12 AM
1 votes:

Lsherm: Musikslayer: Actually, it's based on Occam's Razor, as it's the most likely scenario.

That's the stupidest use of Occam's Razor I've ever heard.  The most likely scenario is that he was depressed and killed himself. You people, with no proof whatsoever, are insisting he was gay and his father rejected him.

Occam's Razor, if you bother to apply it correctly, focuses on the solution that requires the fewest assumptions. You people are assuming the son was gay AND that the father treated him like shiat because of it.  That's absurd, stupid, and not a correct application of Occam's Razor at all.


When did I say that his father treated him like shiat??? Never. It is you, amigo, that assumed that. I didn't assume that in any way, shape or form. In fact i did the opposite with my Boobies, I said Warren was a bright guy and moderate on many issues. I've never said one negative word about the guy. You did.

Warren Sr may have been the most loving person in the world if one of his own came out, it wouldn't really surprise me. "You people" are the ones making assumptions here, Do a lil googling: young gay men have a much higher rate of suicide. That's a statistic and not an opinion. It doesn't infer anything about Warren. And now go back to Occam's Razor: If young gays have a higher rate of suicide, it takes "fewer assumptions" and clear statistics to put that at/near the top of the list.

Let's cut to the chase: "You people" perceive it as an insult, so you have to put words in mouths for justification. It's not an insult, it's a terrible situation that effects millions of people. There's no "glee" from the left, it's compassion and empathy. What's coming from "you people" is denial, blame and blatant disregard, because you know damn well how it looks. Out of sheer curiosity, if it comes out that the son was gay, what would be your response? Who will you blame for that one?
2013-04-07 11:28:05 AM
1 votes:

picturescrazy: GAT_00: Bisu: Alright, retards who think "suffered from mental illness" means "was gay:"

How exactly would you word it for a straight person who was, oh I dunno, SUFFERING A MENTAL ILLNESS? Serious question, because I always thought there was a legitimate meaning to "mental illness," but apparently you all seem to think it's only used in code...

Because if Rick Warren said someone suffered from a mental illness, he's going to be referring to homosexuality, because that farktard thinks homosexuality is a mental illness.  And if it was any actual mental illness, Warren would have probably helped his son and got him treatment.

Occam's Razor says his son was gay and killed himself because his father is a raging douche.

From TFA:"In spite of America's best doctors, meds, counselors, and prayers for healing, the torture of mental illness never subsided," Warren wrote to church members.

But go ahead and keep justifying your joy at someone's death because you hate his father.


Could it possibly read more accurately as "In spite of America's best fundamental Christian doctors, meds, bible-believing counselors, and Christian prayers for healing, the torture of having a sexual inclination I find abhorrent never subsided."

I know this isn't the time for him to explain, but: exactly what sort of mental illness? Depression, psychosis, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, autism spectrum disorder...?
2013-04-07 10:51:06 AM
1 votes:

Relatively Obscure: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

Hoban Washburne: If that is the case, the parents deserve every bit of pain/sadness/guilt they are feeling and then some.

Benevolent Misanthrope: Ah. So he was gay.

Cup Check: Unfortunately, more than likely this!

Peter von Nostrand: Guy was probably gay.

So... do any of you have any evidence of this, or is this just a weird thing people are going to be doing today?


Thats kind of strange to assume he was gay . I'm quite sure there are a number of mental illnesses other than being gay .
2013-04-07 10:38:18 AM
1 votes:

jkl65s4: Haven't read all the comments, but it's very possible that he just struggled to fit in. There's a lot of social expectations with Christianity, and if he wasn't "on pace" with the rest of his peers (i.e. go to college after high school, get married by his mid 20s, etc.), it would be very easy to fall into a deep depression. Before I swore off mainstream Christianity (and possibly Christianity altogether), I was in that pit. I was straight, but I never really fit in in high school, didn't date anyone, didn't go off to college, By my mid 20s, not being married and at least moderately successful, I was looked at differently in every church I dared try to attend and it was a major turnoff. I've found some acceptance with the Unitarian Universalists who I feel in many ways are better Christians than mainstream denominations, but even then, it's not a great fit for me.


Judging someone because they lack material success doesn't sound very "Christian" to me.

/ again, I blame the "Prosperity Gospel" for attitudes like that.
// it's started to metastasize within mainstream Christianity, just like a cancer....
2013-04-07 09:46:11 AM
1 votes:
Sad.

Everyone is making an assumption.  Is it true?  Who knows?  One side is not talking and the other side can't.

I will say though I've known my share of preacher's kids of all stripes.  They all live with a feeling they are being scrutinized more that others because of their Daddies.  Some turn into goody two shoes, others become inked,drug addict rebels.  The saddest ones are like this guy.  The one who couldn't choose.

Good thoughts and prayers for all involved.
2013-04-07 08:31:06 AM
1 votes:

Man On Pink Corner: cygnusx13: My god, I hope you are trolling.

(Shrug) Rick Warren is a sociopath.  He has to be, in order to do what he does for a living.  It's safe to speculate that he doesn't feel what you or I would feel at the loss of a child, and it's possible to do so without taking away from the greater tragedy of his son's suicide, regardless of what may have driven him to it.


Be kind. His son was gay and committed suicide after spending time with his parents. This makes him look bad.
2013-04-07 06:03:03 AM
1 votes:

cygnusx13: My god, I hope you are trolling.


(Shrug) Rick Warren is a sociopath.  He has to be, in order to do what he does for a living.  It's safe to speculate that he doesn't feel what you or I would feel at the loss of a child, and it's possible to do so without taking away from the greater tragedy of his son's suicide, regardless of what may have driven him to it.
2013-04-07 05:20:22 AM
1 votes:
Another death by Christianity. Nice work, farkwads, your God sucks my dick.
2013-04-07 04:52:37 AM
1 votes:
There will be plenty of time and plenty of opportunity to disagree with Rick Warren in your lives. It does not matter who he is and what he stands for right now. He has a wife. He has other children. Matthew had a whole family. You might hate him, but you give that family the bearth to grieve and bury their son. You don't punish an entire family because of your personal grievances about one of them. That is petty.
2013-04-07 03:55:12 AM
1 votes:

FitzShivering: If by the average vulgarity put in a thread you mean tame, absolutely. If you been the sheer inhumanity of some of the comments, especially give it isn't from people like AssortedMeasurementsOfTrollBurgers, no, it really isn't.

There's ripping on people because you hate them, and then there is completely making shiat up and celebrating someone's death because it will hurt someone you dislike. Whatever tameness you see here, the originators of this thread were doing the latter, and that's sick. The mods have gotten involved for lesser things here.


The only thing that baffles me is the complete willingness to simply accept some completely unproven claims with no evidence at all, and from people who I would have thought, in most threads, would biatch about that kind of thing.  It doesn't even make me mad.  It's just weird.
2013-04-07 03:22:35 AM
1 votes:
douchebag/hater:
It's true: the intolerance isn't from the Right; it's from the Left.

False choice.  It clearly can be (and is) from both sides.  Unfortunately, only one side attempts to give their hatefulness the force of law.
2013-04-07 03:20:43 AM
1 votes:

douchebag/hater: MaestroJ: Someone who was likely a kind, loving person, has died, folks. Hate his dad, fine, don't treat the son like crap. No matter how hateful the things Rick Warren has said, he's still a dad, and there is very little in this world that is more painful than a parent having to bury their own child.

Rick Warren is a sick, twisted asshole who will deservedly be forever mocked by history as he already majorly is due to his barbaric and backward attitude. Animals like that though still know what it's like to love their child though. Just let that be.

Once again the vaunted 'liberal tolerance' removes it mask to show the vile and disgusting hate it actually is.
WTG nice to see you being so open about bile that courses through your brain - such as it is.


No one's trying to pass laws saying that mocking Rick Warren is required.  That's more the Right's schtick.
2013-04-07 03:15:02 AM
1 votes:

angrymacface: lostcat: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

That's exactly how I read it.

Indeed. I doubt he's even saddened by his son's suicide.


My god, I hope you are trolling.
2013-04-07 03:12:17 AM
1 votes:

douchebag/hater: I've seen a lot of shiate for the 8 years I've been coming here but this is truly the worse thread I've seen.

All of you anti-conservative/anti-religion farkers really need to take a look in the mirror and see yourselves for the vile hate-fill losers you actually are instead of hiding between the pus-infected rotting facade of 'tolerance' that you pride yourselves with having.

It's true: the intolerance isn't from the Right; it's from the Left.
From this thread to liberal columnists calling Coin Powell a 'house *igger' and claiming that all Republicans secretly want to bring back slavery and strip mine the world it shows that the hatred is from your side not the Right.

I would say that all of you should be ashamed of yourselves but after reading this thread it's obvious that none of you have any shame - only your unfounded smug sense of superiority and self-rightousness.


I have to agree.  I've been on Fark in one form on another for well over a decade.  I've seen people troll; I've seen people say disgusting things, usually to get a rise out of people.  This is one of the few times I've read people and feel I've just seen into a very nasty part of who they are as human beings.  There's just no call for what has been said in this thread, whether Warren is one of the worst human beings (yes, I feel he is; yes, I am an atheist and carry some bias in that extent) or not.
2013-04-07 03:05:36 AM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Just returning the favor.

What does that even mean?

It means Rick Warren has offended me many, MANY times over the years, through is preaching and indoctrinating the servile f*ckwits who fill his pews.  I feel no qualms - not one - about insulting him.





You are very easily offended and you also seem to enjoy it.
2013-04-07 02:45:45 AM
1 votes:
Pray the mental illness away works equally well as pray the gay away.
2013-04-07 02:40:56 AM
1 votes:

TheXerox: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

GAT_00: Hoban Washburne: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

If that is the case, the parents deserve every bit of pain/sadness/guilt they are feeling and then some.

There's no reason a pastor like this would feel guilty about driving his gay son to suicide.

Benevolent Misanthrope: "At 27 years of age, Matthew was an incredibly kind, gentle and compassionate young man whose sweet spirit was encouragement and comfort to many," Saddleback Church said in the statement. "Unfortunately, he also suffered from mental illness resulting in deep depression and suicidal thoughts."

Ah.  So he was gay.  Jeebus gave him an illness to make him go away.

/FOAD, Rick Warren and all his ilk


What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement, and that his parents were giving him crap about it without actually knowing any of the facts or any of the other circumstances behind this poor man's death. Disagreeing with somebody is fine, but it is no reason to act like such a jackass when something like this happens to their family, show some class.


Pretty much this.

 It's like they dislike the guy, so the invented a reason to hate him and then ran with it.

 I've got no issue with someone disliking someone, but inventing random crap to blame them for?! Seriously, what the fark is wrong with you people?
2013-04-07 02:39:26 AM
1 votes:
My parents don't accept that I'm transgender, and I have bad thoughts a lot as a result... Maybe I'll end up the same way (assuming that the son is gay, which I actually doubt in this case).

My parents are atheist, too.
2013-04-07 02:28:08 AM
1 votes:

whither_apophis: DamnYankees: As much as I would want to blame this on Warren being horrible, the reality is that people often commit suicide for reasons completely independent of how the people who love them treat them. We don't have any reason to think Warren did anything to cause this.

Pretty much what I popped in to say.


This. Asshole or not we have no idea about his illness or lack of. Respect the life lost, it is complicated and well fark, it's gone...

He is just gone. You can't fix that shiat.
2013-04-07 02:24:05 AM
1 votes:
Maybe he killed himself because he was a better kind of christian but couldn't stand being prejudged as a likely bigot?
2013-04-07 02:15:28 AM
1 votes:

Relatively Obscure: Kevin72: No liberals are hating. No one knows if the son was gay or not. Its all speculation and opinion. But highly likely, or it wouldn't be speculated or opined.

Okay.  There is no way you are serious.


Of course I'm serious. I did not have proof that the son was gay so I toned down my rhetoric to calling it speculation and opinion. But I will say that it is not hateful to speculate that the son was gay. Only someone who hates gays would say that it is hateful to speculate that the son was gay.
2013-04-07 02:10:39 AM
1 votes:

bugontherug: iq_in_binary: A healthy belief in karma? I'll take that over all the supposed positive benefits people like Warren claim their imaginary friends have any day.

We put rapists in prison, for example, partly in order to give their victims the satisfaction of their suffering. That satisfaction is a positive good. Likewise, the satisfaction that victims of Rick Warren's campaign of hate against homosexuals experience because of his grief is a positive good.


Pardon me, I thought I was responding to Miss Dimunitive's remark asking if the suffering of an evil person is a positive good. For some reason I quoted your statement instead.

But it's way past my bedtime. Good night, even to the douches who defended Pastor Hitler himself. = P
2013-04-07 02:08:44 AM
1 votes:

iq_in_binary: A healthy belief in karma? I'll take that over all the supposed positive benefits people like Warren claim their imaginary friends have any day.


We put rapists in prison, for example, partly in order to give their victims the satisfaction of their suffering. That satisfaction is a positive good. Likewise, the satisfaction that victims of Rick Warren's campaign of hate against homosexuals experience because of his grief is a positive good.
2013-04-07 02:07:14 AM
1 votes:

Kevin72: No liberals are hating. No one knows if the son was gay or not. Its all speculation and opinion. But highly likely, or it wouldn't be speculated or opined.


Okay.  There is no way you are serious.
2013-04-07 02:05:03 AM
1 votes:

miss diminutive: Got any proof on any of that? Any direct quotes at all (besides the "most likely supports the execution of homosexuals" which is just simply trying to read someone's mind and just your opinion)?


No "mind reading." Human beings routinely and correctly infer state of mind through actions. We evolved to do so. When someone only says something after intense public pressure to say it, it is a fair and reasonable inference, arguable in court, that he didn't mean what he said. That is Rick Warren's circumstance, and the inference that he supports execution of homosexuals, who he compares to violent criminals, rapists, and child molesters, isn't merely fair: it is the most plausible one under the circumstances.

I've already linked elsewhere to his remarks comparing homosexuals to violent criminals, rapists, and child molesters, and arguing that they should be treated similarly. I cannot adequately link him to Christian youth who harass homosexuals, and I've already withdrawn that statement.

Rick Warren is an evil man who has abused his position of public influence to vomit bile against homosexuals. That in turn makes him partially responsible for harassment of and high suicide rates among homosexuals. His son committing suicide is tragic: I'm sorry he suffered so much he wanted to die. But his father's pain is karmic justice.
2013-04-07 02:04:25 AM
1 votes:

Kevin72: But highly likely, or it wouldn't be speculated or opined.


Like belief in God, right?
2013-04-07 01:57:38 AM
1 votes:

miss diminutive: bugontherug: Rick Warren most likely supports execution of homosexuals. He refused to condemn Uganda's gay execution until pressured to do so, and then his condemnation was weak and pro-forma. He also compares homosexuals to child molesters, and says they should be treated similarly. He has enlisted Christian youth to emotionally torture homosexuals through harassment and bullying.

Got any proof on any of that? Any direct quotes at all (besides the "most likely supports the execution of homosexuals" which is just simply trying to read someone's mind and just your opinion)?

bugontherug: Rick Warren is an evil man, as evil as any neo-Nazi. All his pain is a positive good added to the world.

How exactly will an "evil" man's pain bring positive good? I mean, sure...the guy is a douche. But is there some kind of documented schadenfreude effect that bestows some kind of benefit to the world from the suffering of assholes?


A healthy belief in karma? I'll take that over all the supposed positive benefits people like Warren claim their imaginary friends have any day.
2013-04-07 01:55:02 AM
1 votes:

bugontherug: Rick Warren most likely supports execution of homosexuals. He refused to condemn Uganda's gay execution until pressured to do so, and then his condemnation was weak and pro-forma. He also compares homosexuals to child molesters, and says they should be treated similarly. He has enlisted Christian youth to emotionally torture homosexuals through harassment and bullying.


Got any proof on any of that? Any direct quotes at all (besides the "most likely supports the execution of homosexuals" which is just simply trying to read someone's mind and just your opinion)?

bugontherug: Rick Warren is an evil man, as evil as any neo-Nazi. All his pain is a positive good added to the world.


How exactly will an "evil" man's pain bring positive good? I mean, sure...the guy is a douche. But is there some kind of documented schadenfreude effect that bestows some kind of benefit to the world from the suffering of assholes?
2013-04-07 01:50:44 AM
1 votes:

PhaserQuest: My guess is that either the church and Warren himself are progressing changing their tune as to not alienate their income stream or Warren comes off really stupid at times when he doesn't have help to express himself.


FTFY
2013-04-07 01:47:06 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.


And now you've insulted me.

\Friend through himself in front of train last fall.
\\He was on again off again crazy.
\\\And his mothers only child.
2013-04-07 01:44:06 AM
1 votes:

Amos Quito: TheXerox: What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement, and that his parents were giving him crap about it without actually knowing any of the facts or any of the other circumstances behind this poor man's death. Disagreeing with somebody is fine, but it is no reason to act like such a jackass when something like this happens to their family, show some class.

^ THIS ^

Admittedly, I know nothing of "Pastor Warren" or his "message", but I DO see many hate-filled people jumping in to attack this guy - who just lost his son - as a pathetically low-brow tool to serve their POLITICAL AGENDA.

Is there any reason to believe that the guy was gay?

Tell you what, according to TFA, the guy WAS depressed, AND was taking "meds", and you MAY have noticed the black box warnings that appear on virtually ALL antidepressants regarding SUICIDAL TENDENCIES?

But no, leverage this as a political tool.

Way to win friends an influence people. It's almost like you're on a mission of self sabotage.

You want "tolerance and compassion"? SHOW SOME.

/Dingbats


I sure as hell don't agree with you on most things, but in this case, I do.

Also, I learned that Occam's Razor means "I want it to be true, therefore it's true."

/a Slippery Slope fallacy involves a steep hill and 12 gallons of Astroglide
//Fark Logic 101
2013-04-07 01:42:15 AM
1 votes:

theMightyRegeya: "Earlier this month, at a World AIDS Day event, Pastor Rick Warren gave President Bush a medal for his efforts to end the AIDS epidemic in Africa. And President-elect Obama appeared via satellite at the same conference. In fact, many AIDS activists say Warren's efforts to fight the disease have been exemplary.
Warren has given away millions -- 90 percent of his income, he says -- in a worldwide effort to help end disease and poverty and promote reconciliation. But in the last two months, some of the goodwill Warren has generated across the social spectrum has been put to the test."

The guy is literally Hitler.


He is not literally Hitler. He is, however, evil, and deserves to suffer. It is true he has been trying to re-vamp his public stance on homosexuals in recent years, anticipating the growing influence of milliennials aging into the adult population and their acceptance of homosexuality. Vile things he could get away with in 2003, he no longer can.

But that doesn't mean he's changed his heart. Not for a minute.
2013-04-07 01:41:05 AM
1 votes:
Rick Warren:

"The problem is that tolerant has changed its meaning. It used to mean 'I may disagree with you completely, but I will treat you with respect. Today, tolerant means - 'you must approve of everything I do.' There's a difference between tolerance and approval. Jesus accepted everyone no matter who they were. He doesn't approve of everything I do, or you do, or anybody else does either. You can be accepting without being approving."

The hate almost chokes you, doesn't it?
2013-04-07 01:35:17 AM
1 votes:
Geez, this thread depresses me almost as much as Rick Warren's kid.

I like to think that we liberals aren't as stupid as Palin, but this thread has me seriously reconsidering.

There is absolutely no evidence this poor kid was gay, and I merely accept the facts of mental illness given until there is other evidence to reconsider.
2013-04-07 01:31:37 AM
1 votes:

TheXerox: My statement was not at all inferring that such thoughts was an insult. From the very start of this thread it has been assumed that the parents were the blame for his suicide and that the only possible explanation for it would be that he was gay despite there being a lack of anything in the article saying anything remotely close to that. What is stated is that he had a night out with his parents the evening before and it seemed to go well. Furthermore, other articles I read about this stated that Warren's son worked in the church's bookstore, is that a behavior consistent of somebody who supposedly hates his son so much for being gay that it would drive that son to suicide?


Yes, that behavior is very consistent, especially the "dinner went well, nothing wrong etc" part.

I heard this on the news this evening. All it said was that Warren's 27 year old son committed suicide. I turned to my wife and said "aaaah, he was probably gay". There was no malice, humor, etc. She's not political and doesn't even know what Fark is, there was nobody to impress and no smartass comments to make. In this thread, we have a bunch of "How dare you libtards", and the translation of that is "How dare you say what you were honestly thinking". There were millions of good, decent average people with no agenda who thought that too, I assure you.

A lot of people don't like to hear the truth. As I said earlier, maybe Warren will do some soul-searching, regardless of why his son killed himself. Hopefully, he'll back off with his anti-gay rhetoric when he realizes how many confused young gay people have ended their lives in part due to hatred, even if his son wasn't one of them.
2013-04-07 01:29:29 AM
1 votes:

RenownedCurator: Kali-Yuga: RenownedCurator: This thread may end up containing a demonstration of every logical fallacy in existence.

Your not setting the bar very high for a thread concerning religion. A religious apologist can do that in a single post.

Well, it looks like the people who are bound and determined to prove that Warren's son was gay and killed himself due to family rejection are going to give the religious apologists a run for their money. Sure, it could turn out he was gay, but I have a feeling that if the next story was all about the grieving wife and children he left behind, the response would be "SEE? HE WAS LIVING A LIE! HIS FAMILY TORTURED HIM INTO PRETENDING HE WAS STRAIGHT!"


I think of it like black people hoping a grieving white supremacist's dead son was shown to have black ancestry his father didn't know about. The victims of the man's hate are just hoping for a moment of karmic justice. It is in no way a moral failing. Certainly, not a moral failing the way contributing to persecution on the basis of race or sexual orientation are moral failings.
2013-04-07 01:28:41 AM
1 votes:

MaestroJ: I really am glad so few farkers have had to deal with suicide or a parents experiencing the death of their child. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. Not even a disgusting beast like Rick Warren.


Read lohphat two posts above you. He lost a friend to suicide because friend's parents would not accept him as gay. And hung up the phone when called.
2013-04-07 01:26:47 AM
1 votes:

RedPhoenix122: TheXerox: What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement, and that his parents were giving him crap about it without actually knowing any of the facts or any of the other circumstances behind this poor man's death.

Pattern recognition.


Look...the article says he had a mental illness.  It doesn't specify.  It says he suffered from depression and suicidal thoughts.  Anyone who knows that depression is a real thing and not merely the result of needing to cheer up, knows that suicidal thoughts can go along with it.

Look.  Maybe he was gay.  I don't know.  But neither does anyone else on this thread.

And Rick Warren is hardly a monster.  Maybe you don't agree with his views, maybe you think he's a horrible person for not supporting gay marriage.  I mean, gee whiz, he sounds like he's literally Hitler!  That being said, the man just lost his son.  Lay off, for decency's sake.

/not that any decent people visit Fark.
2013-04-07 01:24:50 AM
1 votes:
RIP sweet boy. May you find the peace and calm this life denied you.
2013-04-07 01:23:49 AM
1 votes:

RenownedCurator: Kali-Yuga: RenownedCurator: This thread may end up containing a demonstration of every logical fallacy in existence.

Your not setting the bar very high for a thread concerning religion. A religious apologist can do that in a single post.

Well, it looks like the people who are bound and determined to prove that Warren's son was gay and killed himself due to family rejection are going to give the religious apologists a run for their money. Sure, it could turn out he was gay, but I have a feeling that if the next story was all about the grieving wife and children he left behind, the response would be "SEE? HE WAS LIVING A LIE! HIS FAMILY TORTURED HIM INTO PRETENDING HE WAS STRAIGHT!"


At least his rich, white family will get enough to eat tonight, and a warm bed to sleep in - more than a lot of far more moral, Godly, and decent third world brown-asses will get.
F**k 'em.
2013-04-07 01:21:10 AM
1 votes:

Kali-Yuga: RenownedCurator: This thread may end up containing a demonstration of every logical fallacy in existence.

Your not setting the bar very high for a thread concerning religion. A religious apologist can do that in a single post.


Well, it looks like the people who are bound and determined to prove that Warren's son was gay and killed himself due to family rejection are going to give the religious apologists a run for their money. Sure, it could turn out he was gay, but I have a feeling that if the next story was all about the grieving wife and children he left behind, the response would be "SEE? HE WAS LIVING A LIE! HIS FAMILY TORTURED HIM INTO PRETENDING HE WAS STRAIGHT!"
2013-04-07 01:20:39 AM
1 votes:
Strongbeerrules:
Christians and atheists.  What's the difference?

One group uses logic, reason, empirical evidence, and science to support their beliefs, and the other prefers the comfortable illusions dreamed up by illiterate bronze age goat herders?

One group is responsible for 99% of the bigotry and misogyny on a global scale for the last few thousand years?
2013-04-07 01:17:45 AM
1 votes:

RenownedCurator: This thread may end up containing a demonstration of every logical fallacy in existence.


Your not setting the bar very high for a thread concerning religion. A religious apologist can do that in a single post.
2013-04-07 01:16:47 AM
1 votes:
I'm going to bed now.

/CSB
2013-04-07 01:14:51 AM
1 votes:
i110.photobucket.com

A person took their own life, most likely because they could no longer handle the pain of living. I consider myself to be a pretty calloused and jaded girl, but jeez.

/yeah yeah, welcome to Fark
2013-04-07 01:11:30 AM
1 votes:
More people want to shove a son's suicide into a father's face than mourn a life lost.

Oh wait. That's right. Suicide doesn't count. Don't mourn suicides, that's celebrating weakness. Gotcha.

Was that reddit guy gay?

Only gay people suffer from depression. Oh and bipolar and schizophrenia are just gay tendencies too. Any negative thing that comes from a religious household is from some gay source being tormented inside the family.

For a second there, I thought life was complicated.

But we're all destined for death anyway. Once, when your cells stop regenerating and your brain stops working. And second when a person says your name out loud for the last time.
2013-04-07 01:11:11 AM
1 votes:
I don't have any reason to suspect that his son was gay, unless you guys know something more than I do.  People commit suicide for a myriad of reasons and I don't have any idea why this guy did it.

Were subsequent revelations to reveal that his son was gay and was shamed into keeping it a secret, ultimately leading to his suicide.  My opinion of the family changes.

I hate religion as much as the next guy, but losing a child has to hurt.  Especially if you were trying to help.  I don't know what happened, but so far as I know I'm sorry for everyone all around.
2013-04-07 01:10:49 AM
1 votes:

MaestroJ: I really am glad so few farkers have had to deal with suicide or a parents experiencing the death of their child. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. Not even a disgusting beast like Rick Warren.


I went back and reread some of the early posts and still don't see anyone saying, "Good, I'm glad the kid killed himself, that'll stick it to Warren!"

I see people speculating that the kid's depression was caused by repressed homosexuality.

Again, I don't think anyone here is HAPPY that the kid committed suicide. There really seems to be that impression among some of the comments.
2013-04-07 01:09:06 AM
1 votes:

iq_in_binary: Relatively Obscure: Musikslayer: What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement,

Actually, it's based on Occam's Razor

No.  No, it isn't.  It's kind of the opposite, almost.

Good parents don't have kids that commit suicide. Good parents get their kids into counseling and help them deal with the depression. Good parents aren't afraid to commit their children to a mental hospital if they feel they are a danger to themselves.


[mucha delenda]

Remember, good parents don't have children that commit suicide.


Actually, mental illness is a motherfarker, and the laws place limits on what parents can do for (or to) a 27-year-old son.  This could happen if Pastor Rick was the kindest parent imaginable to a son whose orientation he approved of.
2013-04-07 01:08:42 AM
1 votes:

Kevin72: violentsalvation: I don't really see the point in jumping to conclusions. Rick Warren would be a sucky father if you were straight, if you were his gay son life would truly be hell on earth. But more often than not mental illness means mental illness. You all could end up being right, but for now you're simply standing on a young man's grave to throw shiat on his father.

If you are Rick Warren, homosexuality is a mental illness. If you are the American Psychiatric Association, homosexuality has not been a mental illness since 1973.


I know that, and you could be entirely right about what drove the kid to kill himself. But there are real mental illnesses out there too, and you're assuming homosexuality is the only "mental illness" his faith acknowledges.
2013-04-07 01:07:31 AM
1 votes:
I really am glad so few farkers have had to deal with suicide or a parents experiencing the death of their child. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. Not even a disgusting beast like Rick Warren.
2013-04-07 01:07:20 AM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: lostcat: Gyrfalcon: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Just returning the favor.

What does that even mean?

It means Rick Warren has offended me many, MANY times over the years, through is preaching and indoctrinating the servile f*ckwits who fill his pews.  I feel no qualms - not one - about insulting him.

Is there some reason you feel the need to insult his son, though?

I may have missed it, but I don't think anyone here is insulting the son and celebrating his death.

Everyone here is speculating on his sexuality and assuming he killed himself because daddy hated him for being gay. Is there some reason you can't let the poor kid just die a depressed death because he was depressed, without tabloid presumptions about his personal life?


Then what the fark was the point of submitting this to Fark and having it green lit?

Were people supposed to come into the comments and say, "Gosh. So sad."?

This is still Fark.com right? I didn't accidentally come to the Lifetime Channel discussion forum?
2013-04-07 01:04:58 AM
1 votes:
All y'all who obviously knew the young man just stood by and let him kill himself. I mean, you diagnosed his condition so accurately you must have known him
2013-04-07 01:02:55 AM
1 votes:

Peter von Nostrand: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Guy was probably gay. He was told he had a mental illness and almost assuredly never gained acceptance from his dad. But we're the ones that are pathetic and insulting

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight


so full of bile you guys can barely think straight anymore.
2013-04-07 12:58:49 AM
1 votes:

Hobodeluxe: [wonkette.com image 490x205]

Not only is your statement a lie but the irony that a millionaire pastor who is tax exempt would say this is not lost on me.


The church would be tax exempt but the preacher pays personal taxes at the self-employed rate.  Don't try to correct his lie with a lie of your own.  Warren is a jackass but if your going to insult him, get it right.
2013-04-07 12:56:18 AM
1 votes:

Musikslayer: TheXerox: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

GAT_00: Hoban Washburne: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

If that is the case, the parents deserve every bit of pain/sadness/guilt they are feeling and then some.

There's no reason a pastor like this would feel guilty about driving his gay son to suicide.

Benevolent Misanthrope: "At 27 years of age, Matthew was an incredibly kind, gentle and compassionate young man whose sweet spirit was encouragement and comfort to many," Saddleback Church said in the statement. "Unfortunately, he also suffered from mental illness resulting in deep depression and suicidal thoughts."

Ah.  So he was gay.  Jeebus gave him an illness to make him go away.

/FOAD, Rick Warren and all his ilk


What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement,

Actually, it's based on Occam's Razor, as it's the most likely scenario.

Nobody should blame Warren for his son's death. What they should blame him for is statements like yours, which infers that someone thinking his son was gay is some kind of insult. It might be ironic, or even prophetic, but it's not an insult. If, somehow, assuming that Warren's son was gay makes him icky, then blame Warren for that. It's very sad to see a young man commit suicide, we had one in my family and it is still painful (it was a straight female) after many years. Hopefully, Warren will be able to do a little soul-seaching, he's a pretty bright guy and moderate on many issues.


My statement was not at all inferring that such thoughts was an insult. From the very start of this thread it has been assumed that the parents were the blame for his suicide and that the only possible explanation for it would be that he was gay despite there being a lack of anything in the article saying anything remotely close to that. What is stated is that he had a night out with his parents the evening before and it seemed to go well. Furthermore, other articles I read about this stated that Warren's son worked in the church's bookstore, is that a behavior consistent of somebody who supposedly hates his son so much for being gay that it would drive that son to suicide? Are you also just as quick to assume that anybody who would hijack a plane or commit some other form of terrorism would be a Muslim extremist?

 As someone who has lost a relative to suicide, I can very easily empathize with anybody who loses a loved one in such a way and I know that they will be asking themselves "Why?" every day for the rest of their lives. People seldom leave notes or give any explanation to why they killed themselves and it is VERY damaging to everybody left behind to say "Oh, well your relative killed themself because you were a bad (parent/grandparent/sibling/aunt/uncle/cousin etc)!" and it is very insensitive to even pretend to know why they killed themself when the family will likely never know the reason.
2013-04-07 12:55:57 AM
1 votes:

lohphat: chapman: Spoken like someone who knows farkalll about Rick Warren other than what them blawgs told them to think.

Megachurch pastor Rick Warren remains as ill-informed on gay identity as ever. Unfazed by the notion that there may be a biological cause for homosexuality, Warren told Piers Morgan on CNN this week that acting on same-sex attractions is no different from "punching a guy in the nose" or consuming arsenic:

And:

When asked about the 2010 suicide of Tyler Clementi, Warren was forced to admit churches bear some responsibility for anti-gay animus, despite the teachings of Jesus.

And:

R. WARREN: Well, if the Bible is the word of God, then I don't have the right to change it. Policies come and go over the years. And so if I'm unpopular for certain beliefs, well, then I'm unpopular for certain beliefs. And to me, the Bible is very clear that sex is for a man and a woman in marriage only. [...]


Holy crap, you are totally going to blow the mind of your freshman philosophy/polysci prof with that solid gold material.  PS.  If you are accused of being an idiot responding with stupid blog material.  Don't respond with shiatty blog material.
2013-04-07 12:55:17 AM
1 votes:

lohphat: Bisu: Ummm...if you're talking about marriage, then they are. Everyone can legally be married to one person of the opposite gender. Straight people can. Gay people can. Equal rights.  You must wrongly be assuming legal marriage has something to do with sexual attraction to your spouse?

Wow. Just wow.


Use logic if you disagree. Typing "wow" does nothing to counter a claim.
2013-04-07 12:54:29 AM
1 votes:

iq_in_binary: Relatively Obscure: Musikslayer: What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement,

Actually, it's based on Occam's Razor

No.  No, it isn't.  It's kind of the opposite, almost.

Good parents don't have kids that commit suicide. Good parents get their kids into counseling and help them deal with the depression. Good parents aren't afraid to commit their children to a mental hospital if they feel they are a danger to themselves.

Rick Warren and his wife failed in so many places, in so many ways, that the only thing there is to do in a healthy society when something like this happens is to make example of people whose failures led to the death of member of it. You mock them. You shame them and punish them. Especially when one of those parents is a public figure who makes his living preying on people's need to belong to something greater than themselves and using cult leader tactics to do it. He terrorizes a minority of people and uses  members of his cult to ostracize and torture children.

Two possibilities: Rick Warren, a millionaire and a man who is extremely susceptible to public opinion, did not have the resources to get his son the treatment he needed; or he did and despite proper treatment his son still committed suicide. That tends to lend a whole hell of a lot of credence to the idea that his son was a member of the very minority Warren abuses in the media daily.

Remember, good parents don't have children that commit suicide.


Based on your post, I'm going to assume that you know absolutely nothing about mental health.
2013-04-07 12:53:46 AM
1 votes:

iq_in_binary: Relatively Obscure: Musikslayer: What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement,

Actually, it's based on Occam's Razor

No.  No, it isn't.  It's kind of the opposite, almost.

Good parents don't have kids that commit suicide. Good parents get their kids into counseling and help them deal with the depression. Good parents aren't afraid to commit their children to a mental hospital if they feel they are a danger to themselves.

Rick Warren and his wife failed in so many places, in so many ways, that the only thing there is to do in a healthy society when something like this happens is to make example of people whose failures led to the death of member of it. You mock them. You shame them and punish them. Especially when one of those parents is a public figure who makes his living preying on people's need to belong to something greater than themselves and using cult leader tactics to do it. He terrorizes a minority of people and uses  members of his cult to ostracize and torture children.

Two possibilities: Rick Warren, a millionaire and a man who is extremely susceptible to public opinion, did not have the resources to get his son the treatment he needed; or he did and despite proper treatment his son still committed suicide. That tends to lend a whole hell of a lot of credence to the idea that his son was a member of the very minority Warren abuses in the media daily.

Remember, good parents don't have children that commit suicide.


At first, I was just all o_O and WTF, but I'm just going to say that nothing you said leads to the conclusion that his kid was gay and that this is why he's dead.  None of it.
2013-04-07 12:53:41 AM
1 votes:

violentsalvation: I don't really see the point in jumping to conclusions. Rick Warren would be a sucky father if you were straight, if you were his gay son life would truly be hell on earth. But more often than not mental illness means mental illness. You all could end up being right, but for now you're simply standing on a young man's grave to throw shiat on his father.


If you are Rick Warren, homosexuality is a mental illness. If you are the American Psychiatric Association, homosexuality has not been a mental illness since 1973.
2013-04-07 12:53:07 AM
1 votes:
Remember, good parents don't have children that commit suicide.

Bwhahahahahahahhahaha *gasp* hahahhaahha.
2013-04-07 12:52:17 AM
1 votes:
Anybody up for a literal reading of the Book of Job?
2013-04-07 12:48:56 AM
1 votes:

Relatively Obscure: Kevin72: The son was gay and the parents trashed him about it until he couldn't take the hurt any more.

Seriously, are you guys getting this information from somewhere I can access?  Has it been widely documented that his son was gay and I just haven't been reading the right articles or something?


His father defined homosexuality as a mental illness. It conveniently allowed his father to call Matthew mentally ill and give him "conversion therapy" rather than man up to having a gay son.
2013-04-07 12:48:33 AM
1 votes:
Maybe his son loved tax increases, and Rick Warren made him stay in the closet and pray to bloody statues of Grover Norquist until he just couldn't take it anymore.
2013-04-07 12:46:01 AM
1 votes:

lohphat: WTF Indeed: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Just returning the favor.

What does that even mean?

It means Rick Warren has offended me many, MANY times over the years, through is preaching and indoctrinating the servile f*ckwits who fill his pews.  I feel no qualms - not one - about insulting him.

Okay. Just making sure you know how sad and pathetic that is.

Shameful and pathetic is campaigning against the equality of other Americans to be treated equally under the law and not being shamed for who they are while making their lives miserable.


Ummm...if you're talking about marriage, then they are. Everyone can legally be married to one person of the opposite gender. Straight people can. Gay people can. Equal rights.  You must wrongly be assuming legal marriage has something to do with sexual attraction to your spouse?
2013-04-07 12:43:23 AM
1 votes:

Musikslayer: Relatively Obscure: Musikslayer: What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement,

Actually, it's based on Occam's Razor

No.  No, it isn't.  It's kind of the opposite, almost.

Yes, Yes, it is. The 21st Century version of it being "The simplest answer is often the correct one". It's the simplest explanation of all.


Even when you use the wrong definition, it still isn't, no.
2013-04-07 12:39:31 AM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Relatively Obscure: GAT_00: Occam's Razor says his son was gay and killed himself because his father is a raging douche.

No, it doesn't.  Where the fark did people learn about Occam's Razor?

The logic follows.  He would hide any actual mental illness in his family since it would be embarrassing.  Only homosexuality would actually be a harmful mental illness to label someone with to someone like Warren.  And following that, if I was gay and had a father like Warren, I would be suicidal too.


If that's what you want to think, I guess that's what you want to think.  Hell, it could even be true despite the complete lack of evidence presented so far.  That's not what "Occam's Razor says," though.
2013-04-07 12:37:02 AM
1 votes:

Relatively Obscure: GAT_00: Occam's Razor says his son was gay and killed himself because his father is a raging douche.

No, it doesn't.  Where the fark did people learn about Occam's Razor?


The logic follows.  He would hide any actual mental illness in his family since it would be embarrassing.  Only homosexuality would actually be a harmful mental illness to label someone with to someone like Warren.  And following that, if I was gay and had a father like Warren, I would be suicidal too.
2013-04-07 12:35:11 AM
1 votes:

Hobodeluxe: Bisu: lostcat: Bisu: Alright, retards who think "suffered from mental illness" means "was gay:"

How exactly would you word it for a straight person who was, oh I dunno, SUFFERING A MENTAL ILLNESS? Serious question, because I always thought there was a legitimate meaning to "mental illness," but apparently you all seem to think it's only used in code...

See, there's this idea of karma that a large number of people on this planet believe in to varying degrees.

Karma would suggest that if you have an asshole who preaches that gay people are sick and wrong and will burn in hell for their "choice" to be sick and wrong, you have to wonder if the universe doesn't have a shiat sandwich ready to serve up in the offing.

And how is belief in this "karma" any more logical than believing in a God that teaches homosexuality is wrong?  Is karma somehow a better religion than Christianity?

karma isn't a religion


The way he put it it is. Or should I say, "belief system?" Would that make you feel better? They're both beliefs in things based on faith/superstition instead of empirical evidence.
2013-04-07 12:33:25 AM
1 votes:

Hobodeluxe: Bisu: lostcat: Bisu: Alright, retards who think "suffered from mental illness" means "was gay:"

How exactly would you word it for a straight person who was, oh I dunno, SUFFERING A MENTAL ILLNESS? Serious question, because I always thought there was a legitimate meaning to "mental illness," but apparently you all seem to think it's only used in code...

See, there's this idea of karma that a large number of people on this planet believe in to varying degrees.

Karma would suggest that if you have an asshole who preaches that gay people are sick and wrong and will burn in hell for their "choice" to be sick and wrong, you have to wonder if the universe doesn't have a shiat sandwich ready to serve up in the offing.

And how is belief in this "karma" any more logical than believing in a God that teaches homosexuality is wrong?  Is karma somehow a better religion than Christianity?

karma isn't a religion


It's not a religion, but it is a psychological phenomenon that is the extension of our belief in ultimate justice. And ironically, karma is one of the things that leads humans to create religions.
2013-04-07 12:33:01 AM
1 votes:
Man On Pink Corner:
Sympathy is a bit of a zero-sum game: I cannot express sympathy for people like that without taking it away from those who deserve it more.

I know what you mean.  My neighbor's wife just died, but that guy is a pretty big dick.  So I saw him this morning and said "I'm glad your wife is farking dead," just to make sure I didn't deplete my precious reserve of sympathy.

My son's pretty shiatty at baseball, so when he starts losing games, I'm going to need it.
2013-04-07 12:32:50 AM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Occam's Razor says his son was gay and killed himself because his father is a raging douche.


No, it doesn't.  Where the fark did people learn about Occam's Razor?
2013-04-07 12:30:54 AM
1 votes:

Bisu: lostcat: Bisu: Alright, retards who think "suffered from mental illness" means "was gay:"

How exactly would you word it for a straight person who was, oh I dunno, SUFFERING A MENTAL ILLNESS? Serious question, because I always thought there was a legitimate meaning to "mental illness," but apparently you all seem to think it's only used in code...

See, there's this idea of karma that a large number of people on this planet believe in to varying degrees.

Karma would suggest that if you have an asshole who preaches that gay people are sick and wrong and will burn in hell for their "choice" to be sick and wrong, you have to wonder if the universe doesn't have a shiat sandwich ready to serve up in the offing.

And how is belief in this "karma" any more logical than believing in a God that teaches homosexuality is wrong?  Is karma somehow a better religion than Christianity?


karma isn't a religion
2013-04-07 12:30:12 AM
1 votes:

lostcat: Bisu: Alright, retards who think "suffered from mental illness" means "was gay:"

How exactly would you word it for a straight person who was, oh I dunno, SUFFERING A MENTAL ILLNESS? Serious question, because I always thought there was a legitimate meaning to "mental illness," but apparently you all seem to think it's only used in code...

See, there's this idea of karma that a large number of people on this planet believe in to varying degrees.

Karma would suggest that if you have an asshole who preaches that gay people are sick and wrong and will burn in hell for their "choice" to be sick and wrong, you have to wonder if the universe doesn't have a shiat sandwich ready to serve up in the offing.


And how is belief in this "karma" any more logical than believing in a God that teaches homosexuality is wrong?  Is karma somehow a better religion than Christianity?
2013-04-07 12:28:49 AM
1 votes:

Kevin72: The son was gay and the parents trashed him about it until he couldn't take the hurt any more.


Seriously, are you guys getting this information from somewhere I can access?  Has it been widely documented that his son was gay and I just haven't been reading the right articles or something?
2013-04-07 12:27:11 AM
1 votes:

Bisu: Alright, retards who think "suffered from mental illness" means "was gay:"

How exactly would you word it for a straight person who was, oh I dunno, SUFFERING A MENTAL ILLNESS? Serious question, because I always thought there was a legitimate meaning to "mental illness," but apparently you all seem to think it's only used in code...


See, there's this idea of karma that a large number of people on this planet believe in to varying degrees.

Karma would suggest that if you have an asshole who preaches that gay people are sick and wrong and will burn in hell for their "choice" to be sick and wrong, you have to wonder if the universe doesn't have a shiat sandwich ready to serve up in the offing.
2013-04-07 12:21:18 AM
1 votes:

TheXerox: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

GAT_00: Hoban Washburne: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

If that is the case, the parents deserve every bit of pain/sadness/guilt they are feeling and then some.

There's no reason a pastor like this would feel guilty about driving his gay son to suicide.

Benevolent Misanthrope: "At 27 years of age, Matthew was an incredibly kind, gentle and compassionate young man whose sweet spirit was encouragement and comfort to many," Saddleback Church said in the statement. "Unfortunately, he also suffered from mental illness resulting in deep depression and suicidal thoughts."

Ah.  So he was gay.  Jeebus gave him an illness to make him go away.

/FOAD, Rick Warren and all his ilk


What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement,


Actually, it's based on Occam's Razor, as it's the most likely scenario.

Nobody should blame Warren for his son's death. What they should blame him for is statements like yours, which infers that someone thinking his son was gay is some kind of insult. It might be ironic, or even prophetic, but it's not an insult. If, somehow, assuming that Warren's son was gay makes him icky, then blame Warren for that. It's very sad to see a young man commit suicide, we had one in my family and it is still painful (it was a straight female) after many years. Hopefully, Warren will be able to do a little soul-seaching, he's a pretty bright guy and moderate on many issues.
2013-04-07 12:19:54 AM
1 votes:

picturescrazy: Wow some of you guys are disgusting. Makes me ashamed to be a Democrat tonight.u


What does anything here have you being ashamed of being a Democrat?
2013-04-07 12:16:40 AM
1 votes:
Still no "I love my dead gay son!"?
2013-04-07 12:15:26 AM
1 votes:

clipperbox: depression sucks. sucks for the family all around. but don't these kind of people also believe that suicides are tormented in hell forever?


unforgivable sin is Catholic
2013-04-07 12:14:19 AM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Just returning the favor.


So sorry to hear about the loss of your son.
2013-04-07 12:08:38 AM
1 votes:
you know what's odd? I've searched for pics of Rick Warren with his family and haven't found any. Now finding one of Warren and politicians is easy. But his family? not so much.
2013-04-07 12:02:21 AM
1 votes:

Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"


That's exactly how I read it.
2013-04-06 11:28:58 PM
1 votes:

Peter von Nostrand: TheXerox: RedPhoenix122: TheXerox: What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement, and that his parents were giving him crap about it without actually knowing any of the facts or any of the other circumstances behind this poor man's death.

Pattern recognition.

"Jumping to conclusions" is the term you're looking for.

I'm good with that. I even have a mat for it. I could be wrong and if so, my bad and I'll probably regret it. Won't be the first time and won't be the last time I'll be wrong


Well then... you loose one turn.
2013-04-06 11:14:01 PM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: You really enjoy jerking off to the suicide of someone you've never met and know nothing about, don't you?

Why would you feel the need to make a sexual parallel when talking about a suicide?


Benevolent Misantrope finishes WTF Indeed with the Freudian Body Slam!
2013-04-06 11:09:05 PM
1 votes:

TheXerox: RedPhoenix122: TheXerox: What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement, and that his parents were giving him crap about it without actually knowing any of the facts or any of the other circumstances behind this poor man's death.

Pattern recognition.

"Jumping to conclusions" is the term you're looking for.


I'm good with that. I even have a mat for it. I could be wrong and if so, my bad and I'll probably regret it. Won't be the first time and won't be the last time I'll be wrong
2013-04-06 11:02:12 PM
1 votes:

RedPhoenix122: TheXerox: What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement, and that his parents were giving him crap about it without actually knowing any of the facts or any of the other circumstances behind this poor man's death.

Pattern recognition.


"Jumping to conclusions" is the term you're looking for.
2013-04-06 10:43:38 PM
1 votes:

Somacandra: Peter von Nostrand: I'd also point out that the right took plenty of shots at Chelsea and now the Obama girls.

Whoa...when did Rick Warren, or any of his church's members, take pride in watching Chelsea Clinton or the Obama girls DIE? I don't think any company actually makes a paintbrush that big.


When did I say they did and what are you talking about? Did I say I was proud that this guy died? Did i say anyone was proud of him dying? Or do you want to just keeping making things up? How many questions can I ask? Who knows?
2013-04-06 10:05:51 PM
1 votes:
That really sucks.
2013-04-06 09:48:57 PM
1 votes:
I wonder if he was getting real help for his mental issues and not one of those BS evangelical groups that insists the power prayer can cure depression.
2013-04-06 09:43:29 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: As much as I would want to blame this on Warren being horrible, the reality is that people often commit suicide for reasons completely independent of how the people who love them treat them. We don't have any reason to think Warren did anything to cause this.


Pretty much what I popped in to say.
2013-04-06 08:48:34 PM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Just returning the favor.


What does that even mean?
2013-04-06 07:30:15 PM
1 votes:

Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"


Unfortunately, more than likely this!

ecmoRandomNumbers: I see that my theory was covered on the boobies, so to speak.


Heh, filterpwned!
2013-04-06 05:39:15 PM
1 votes:
That did not look like HRC.
 
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