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(NBC News)   Pastor Rick Warren's son no longer living a purpose driven life   (usnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 388
    More: Sad, Rick Warren, Mission Viejo  
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11352 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Apr 2013 at 11:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-07 01:28:11 AM

Novart: lohphat: utharda: Poor Kid.  Hope he's found peace.   As much as I don't like mega churches, and social conservatives, much sympathy to the Warren's, as a parent, I can imagine the grief and guilt they must be feeling.

I'm not so sure about that.

If it is revealed that his son was gay, I have ZERO sympathy for the parents.

I lost a good friend who killed himself because of the rejection of is family that he was gay. When the surviving friends contacted his mother, she wanted nothing of him and hung up the phone.

How Christian of her.

And what if Rick Warren's son was gay, but he killed himself for entirely different reasons?

I get why so many Farkers desperately want this kid to have been gay: another chance to grab the pitchforks and go after religious people. But as this poster shows, you don't actually have to go out of your way to make things up about homosexual persecution: it happens all the time, but so do mental illnesses. It's not like being heterosexual shields you from depression or any other mental illness that might make life unbearable.

Sorry for the loss of your friend.


More likely, the punk was just a f**king loser the rest of us are better off without.
 
2013-04-07 01:28:41 AM

MaestroJ: I really am glad so few farkers have had to deal with suicide or a parents experiencing the death of their child. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. Not even a disgusting beast like Rick Warren.


Read lohphat two posts above you. He lost a friend to suicide because friend's parents would not accept him as gay. And hung up the phone when called.
 
2013-04-07 01:29:29 AM

RenownedCurator: Kali-Yuga: RenownedCurator: This thread may end up containing a demonstration of every logical fallacy in existence.

Your not setting the bar very high for a thread concerning religion. A religious apologist can do that in a single post.

Well, it looks like the people who are bound and determined to prove that Warren's son was gay and killed himself due to family rejection are going to give the religious apologists a run for their money. Sure, it could turn out he was gay, but I have a feeling that if the next story was all about the grieving wife and children he left behind, the response would be "SEE? HE WAS LIVING A LIE! HIS FAMILY TORTURED HIM INTO PRETENDING HE WAS STRAIGHT!"


I think of it like black people hoping a grieving white supremacist's dead son was shown to have black ancestry his father didn't know about. The victims of the man's hate are just hoping for a moment of karmic justice. It is in no way a moral failing. Certainly, not a moral failing the way contributing to persecution on the basis of race or sexual orientation are moral failings.
 
2013-04-07 01:30:17 AM

bugontherug: miss diminutive: [i110.photobucket.com image 584x600]

A person took their own life, most likely because they could no longer handle the pain of living. I consider myself to be a pretty calloused and jaded girl, but jeez.

/yeah yeah, welcome to Fark

You wouldn't react so negatively to Jewish persons (or anyone else) evincing no sympathy for a grieving neo-Nazi leader. You'd say "someone who sh*ts this kind of evil into the world has no legitimate complaint when the targets of his attacks don't wish him deep condolences."

That is the appropriate response to Rick Warren's grief, too.


You know, I was just thinking to myself "You know what would really spice this thread up a bit? Some Godwin."

A man who's political and theological leanings you disagree with has a grown son who takes his own life under unknown circumstances and you feel that flinging vitriol at him is an appropriate response? Okay, sure.
 
2013-04-07 01:30:42 AM
One of my best friends ever came out to his ultra-religious family about 10 years ago. They tried to convince him to get into counseling/therapy. When he told them he wasn't mentally ill, they said he was "in denial" and "refusing treatment". He broke off contact with them, and went on to live a troubled life full of alcohol abuse and depression. I tried to be there for him, but we lived in different cities, had different lives, etc, so there was only so much I could do. About 2 years ago, he was found dead in his apartment. His family are the only ones who know exactly how he died, but I am pretty sure it was a suicide, or possibly an accidental overdose of drugs/alcohol. His family kept his funeral info private, not letting any of his friends come to the funeral or pay their respects, mainly because they knew we all supported HIM, and thought that his family were all a bunch of religious nutjobs. Plus, I am sure they didn't want any of his "mentally ill friends" i.e. other gay people showing up. The obituary for him mentioned his "long struggle with mental illness", and that "he was finally at peace".

I can't say for certain that what happened here was the same as what happened to my friend, but it sure as hell is a possibility. Anyone who says it isn't doesn't know just how farked up some religious people are, and how it can make them treat their own family.
 
2013-04-07 01:31:22 AM

bugontherug: Amos Quito: Admittedly, I know nothing of "Pastor Warren" or his "message", but I DO see many hate-filled people jumping in to attack this guy - who just lost his son - as a pathetically low-brow tool to serve their POLITICAL AGENDA.

David Duke's son commits suicide. Many blacks attack David Duke. You:

"Admittedly, I know nothing of 'David Duke' or his 'message,' but I DO see many hate-filled people jumping in to attack this guy - who just lost his son - as a pathetically low-brow tool to serve their POLITICAL AGENDA."

Though I admit it's not a perfect comparison: David Duke was much less influential in American life than Pastor Warren has been, so really Mr. Duke was responsible for less racism than has Pastor Warren for hatred of homosexuals.


"Earlier this month, at a World AIDS Day event, Pastor Rick Warren gave President Bush a medal for his efforts to end the AIDS epidemic in Africa. And President-elect Obama appeared via satellite at the same conference. In fact, many AIDS activists say Warren's efforts to fight the disease have been exemplary.
Warren has given away millions -- 90 percent of his income, he says -- in a worldwide effort to help end disease and poverty and promote reconciliation. But in the last two months, some of the goodwill Warren has generated across the social spectrum has been put to the test."

The guy is literally Hitler.
 
2013-04-07 01:31:37 AM
Some people are going to be really upset if this turns out not to be another suicide by a person because they were bullied for being gay.

That's how you know you shouldn't be making the assumption, or saying it out loud.
 
2013-04-07 01:31:37 AM

TheXerox: My statement was not at all inferring that such thoughts was an insult. From the very start of this thread it has been assumed that the parents were the blame for his suicide and that the only possible explanation for it would be that he was gay despite there being a lack of anything in the article saying anything remotely close to that. What is stated is that he had a night out with his parents the evening before and it seemed to go well. Furthermore, other articles I read about this stated that Warren's son worked in the church's bookstore, is that a behavior consistent of somebody who supposedly hates his son so much for being gay that it would drive that son to suicide?


Yes, that behavior is very consistent, especially the "dinner went well, nothing wrong etc" part.

I heard this on the news this evening. All it said was that Warren's 27 year old son committed suicide. I turned to my wife and said "aaaah, he was probably gay". There was no malice, humor, etc. She's not political and doesn't even know what Fark is, there was nobody to impress and no smartass comments to make. In this thread, we have a bunch of "How dare you libtards", and the translation of that is "How dare you say what you were honestly thinking". There were millions of good, decent average people with no agenda who thought that too, I assure you.

A lot of people don't like to hear the truth. As I said earlier, maybe Warren will do some soul-searching, regardless of why his son killed himself. Hopefully, he'll back off with his anti-gay rhetoric when he realizes how many confused young gay people have ended their lives in part due to hatred, even if his son wasn't one of them.
 
2013-04-07 01:32:07 AM

Amos Quito: Tell you what, according to TFA, the guy WAS depressed, AND was taking "meds", and you MAY have noticed the black box warnings that appear on virtually ALL antidepressants regarding SUICIDAL TENDENCIES?


All he  wanted was a Pepsi
 
2013-04-07 01:32:42 AM
There's no hate like liberal hate.
 
2013-04-07 01:35:17 AM
Geez, this thread depresses me almost as much as Rick Warren's kid.

I like to think that we liberals aren't as stupid as Palin, but this thread has me seriously reconsidering.

There is absolutely no evidence this poor kid was gay, and I merely accept the facts of mental illness given until there is other evidence to reconsider.
 
2013-04-07 01:35:58 AM

theMightyRegeya: bugontherug: Amos Quito: Admittedly, I know nothing of "Pastor Warren" or his "message", but I DO see many hate-filled people jumping in to attack this guy - who just lost his son - as a pathetically low-brow tool to serve their POLITICAL AGENDA.

David Duke's son commits suicide. Many blacks attack David Duke. You:

"Admittedly, I know nothing of 'David Duke' or his 'message,' but I DO see many hate-filled people jumping in to attack this guy - who just lost his son - as a pathetically low-brow tool to serve their POLITICAL AGENDA."

Though I admit it's not a perfect comparison: David Duke was much less influential in American life than Pastor Warren has been, so really Mr. Duke was responsible for less racism than has Pastor Warren for hatred of homosexuals.

"Earlier this month, at a World AIDS Day event, Pastor Rick Warren gave President Bush a medal for his efforts to end the AIDS epidemic in Africa. And President-elect Obama appeared via satellite at the same conference. In fact, many AIDS activists say Warren's efforts to fight the disease have been exemplary.
Warren has given away millions -- 90 percent of his income, he says -- in a worldwide effort to help end disease and poverty and promote reconciliation. But in the last two months, some of the goodwill Warren has generated across the social spectrum has been put to the test."

The guy is literally Hitler.


One of the people I know who works for Saddleback is involved with Warren's somewhat new program for sending health missions to fight AIDS.  His take on it is apparently that Jesus embraced the lepers and it is a christian duty to embrace those suffering from AIDS.  Whether or not Warren compares homosexuals to lepers or the mentally ill I have no idea.  It's certainly a possibility but considering how liberal much of the Saddleback congregation can be I have no idea.
 
2013-04-07 01:37:14 AM

PhaserQuest: chapman: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF Indeed: Article: "Had mental illness"

Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.

Just returning the favor.

What does that even mean?

It means Rick Warren has offended me many, MANY times over the years, through is preaching and indoctrinating the servile f*ckwits who fill his pews.  I feel no qualms - not one - about insulting him.

Spoken like someone who knows farkalll about Rick Warren other than what them blawgs told them to think.

I live near Saddleback and come into daily contact with people who work or volunteer there, and the majority are open supporters of marriage equality.  The congregations at Saddleback are so large they're really a mixed bag of people in attendance and from what I know Warren doesn't touch controversial topics in his sermons.  My guess is that either the church and Warren himself are progressing or Warren comes off really stupid at times when he doesn't have help to express himself.


I used to see that place when I would drive on the 241 tollroad and yea, it's unbelievably huge.
 
2013-04-07 01:37:25 AM

Corn_Fed: I merely accept the facts of mental illness given until there is other evidence to reconsider.


That's very Christian of you.
 
2013-04-07 01:38:18 AM

miss diminutive: You know, I was just thinking to myself "You know what would really spice this thread up a bit? Some Godwin."

A man who's political and theological leanings you disagree with has a grown son who takes his own life under unknown circumstances and you feel that flinging vitriol at him is an appropriate response? Okay, sure.


Rick Warren most likely supports execution of homosexuals. He refused to condemn Uganda's gay execution until pressured to do so, and then his condemnation was weak and pro-forma. He also compares homosexuals to child molesters, and says they should be treated similarly. He has enlisted Christian youth to emotionally torture homosexuals through harassment and bullying.

Rick Warren is an evil man, as evil as any neo-Nazi. All his pain is a positive good added to the world.
 
2013-04-07 01:39:01 AM
I'm not sure if the Gary sporty flies although I think the probability of that is much greater than zero. What I absolutely believe is that bombarding children through all their formative years pollutes their minds.

I believe it creates mental illness in otherwise healthy people and it magnifies mental illness in those born with such.

It's unhealthy to teach people that fairy tales are truths and force feed it to them when their minds are wide open and without defenses.

I'm not saying that raising someone as an atheist will prevent all problems. Some people will always have difficulties because of their genetics but religion exacerbates and creates problems.
 
2013-04-07 01:41:05 AM
Rick Warren:

"The problem is that tolerant has changed its meaning. It used to mean 'I may disagree with you completely, but I will treat you with respect. Today, tolerant means - 'you must approve of everything I do.' There's a difference between tolerance and approval. Jesus accepted everyone no matter who they were. He doesn't approve of everything I do, or you do, or anybody else does either. You can be accepting without being approving."

The hate almost chokes you, doesn't it?
 
2013-04-07 01:41:16 AM

s2s2s2: Corn_Fed: I merely accept the facts of mental illness given until there is other evidence to reconsider.

That's very Christian of you.


It's very atheist of me. I just go with the available evidence, rather than make shiat up because I want to believe it.
 
2013-04-07 01:42:14 AM
Tony Dungy
 
2013-04-07 01:42:15 AM

theMightyRegeya: "Earlier this month, at a World AIDS Day event, Pastor Rick Warren gave President Bush a medal for his efforts to end the AIDS epidemic in Africa. And President-elect Obama appeared via satellite at the same conference. In fact, many AIDS activists say Warren's efforts to fight the disease have been exemplary.
Warren has given away millions -- 90 percent of his income, he says -- in a worldwide effort to help end disease and poverty and promote reconciliation. But in the last two months, some of the goodwill Warren has generated across the social spectrum has been put to the test."

The guy is literally Hitler.


He is not literally Hitler. He is, however, evil, and deserves to suffer. It is true he has been trying to re-vamp his public stance on homosexuals in recent years, anticipating the growing influence of milliennials aging into the adult population and their acceptance of homosexuality. Vile things he could get away with in 2003, he no longer can.

But that doesn't mean he's changed his heart. Not for a minute.
 
2013-04-07 01:44:06 AM

Amos Quito: TheXerox: What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement, and that his parents were giving him crap about it without actually knowing any of the facts or any of the other circumstances behind this poor man's death. Disagreeing with somebody is fine, but it is no reason to act like such a jackass when something like this happens to their family, show some class.

^ THIS ^

Admittedly, I know nothing of "Pastor Warren" or his "message", but I DO see many hate-filled people jumping in to attack this guy - who just lost his son - as a pathetically low-brow tool to serve their POLITICAL AGENDA.

Is there any reason to believe that the guy was gay?

Tell you what, according to TFA, the guy WAS depressed, AND was taking "meds", and you MAY have noticed the black box warnings that appear on virtually ALL antidepressants regarding SUICIDAL TENDENCIES?

But no, leverage this as a political tool.

Way to win friends an influence people. It's almost like you're on a mission of self sabotage.

You want "tolerance and compassion"? SHOW SOME.

/Dingbats


I sure as hell don't agree with you on most things, but in this case, I do.

Also, I learned that Occam's Razor means "I want it to be true, therefore it's true."

/a Slippery Slope fallacy involves a steep hill and 12 gallons of Astroglide
//Fark Logic 101
 
2013-04-07 01:45:07 AM

TheXerox: msupf: Actually, yes, that behavior from the family can be reconciled with the son being gay. The depression could have been a result of him being told his (possibly) gay nature was unnatural, a sin, an illness, etc. etc. people in his position have consistently gone along with the program just to avoid punishment or having to stay in whatever anti-gay program they were in. Being taught to loath what you are inside can lead to all kinds of mental issues, and while the person may seem functioning decently on the outside (working in the family church, spending time with the family amicably), something inside is breaking and they can, and have, committed suicide based largely on having had to play a charade for so long (appearing to be straight when in their heart they are gay, or other applicable scenarios).

That's kind of why acceptance by the majority of the population has been a big reason suicide rates of gay youths has actually been declining (albeit by not nearly enough, as LGBT youths are still at the highest risk for suicide than pretty much any other demographic, and invariably because of how they are constantly told they are an aberration, evil, making a 'choice' and can easily be straight if they just really prayed or tried hard enough, etc. etc. etc.).

Yes, it is also very possible that the son was just disturbed in the normal mental illness way, but it is equally as possible that he was gay and killed himself in a bout of depression stemming from his family's treatment towards him and/or their attempts to change who he was.


Way to miss the point. You still have yet to offer up a shred of proof that the poor guy's depression was about him being gay. Until we hear one way or the other, anything which posits that he was gay is uninformed speculation at best. Even then, you don't suppose there might be other unknown reasons for someone with depression (regardless of who their parents are) to kill themself?




Notice how at the end I said it was equally possible for either of these outcomes to be right at this point?
You are right, all we know is that his family says he was mentally disturbed and suffered depression. We don't, and likely never will know, what specifically he was treated for, what the medications were, and we may likely never know who all he saw for treatment (and thusly what they specialized in treating). We also know that, given who his family is, there would be good reason for them to refer to a gay family member as being mentally ill. Then I pointed out very plausible scenarios that have happened hundreds of times that we know of in the past ten years or so that would give credence to the thought that the son was gay.

Why dismiss it out of hand when the other (actually mentally ill instead of gay) scenario is equally devoid of concrete information at this point?
 
2013-04-07 01:47:06 AM

WTF Indeed: Fark Wacko Liberals: "I bet his son was gay, what a terrible parent he was with his totally now gay son."

You people are so pathetic. The man's son died and you all find a way to insult him.


And now you've insulted me.

\Friend through himself in front of train last fall.
\\He was on again off again crazy.
\\\And his mothers only child.
 
2013-04-07 01:47:29 AM

Corn_Fed: s2s2s2: Corn_Fed: I merely accept the facts of mental illness given until there is other evidence to reconsider.

That's very Christian of you.

It's very atheist of me. I just go with the available evidence, rather than make shiat up because I want to believe it.


It was a joke*. I had toyed with "Well that's not very Christian of you" because of the whole "Christians are evidence averse" thing. But I figured I'd go with the fact that, according to the actual tenets of Christianity(sadly under observed by "Christians"), it is very Christian of you.

*Like, a sad joke.
 
2013-04-07 01:49:29 AM

bugontherug: Amos Quito: Admittedly, I know nothing of "Pastor Warren" or his "message", but I DO see many hate-filled people jumping in to attack this guy - who just lost his son - as a pathetically low-brow tool to serve their POLITICAL AGENDA.

David Duke's son commits suicide. Many blacks attack David Duke. You:

"Admittedly, I know nothing of 'David Duke' or his 'message,' but I DO see many hate-filled people jumping in to attack this guy - who just lost his son - as a pathetically low-brow tool to serve their POLITICAL AGENDA."



Are these imaginary blacks you've invented implying that David Duke's son was "secretly black", and that he committed suicide because of his father's hatred of blacks?

Your call. It's your fantasy.


bugontherug: Though I admit it's not a perfect comparison: David Duke was much less influential in American life than Pastor Warren has been, so really Mr. Duke was responsible for less racism than has Pastor Warren for hatred of homosexuals.



Look bugontherug, I am very happy to say that during my lifetime, gays have made EXPONENTIAL leaps in achieving acceptance in broader society - but these gains have NOT been accomplished by being mean, nasty, in-your-face asshats, but by showing that they can be good friends, good neighbors, upstanding citizens, and compassionate human beings. You know - behaving in the way that so-called "good Christians" are SUPPOSED to behave.

Vile hatred and vicious animosity only breeds reactions of more vile hatred and vicious animosity. If you want to continue to gain acceptance in the broader community, your best bet is to one-up those who are intolerant by being tolerant, compassionate, and accepting - because that is what WORKS.

Demonstrably.

You want a fight? Fine. Act like an asshat, and you'll get your fight.

You want to gain tolerance, acceptance and equal treatment under the law? You'll have to win by showing that you're decent, caring and compassionate - just like you want them to be.

Take it to heart.
 
2013-04-07 01:50:18 AM

Musikslayer: TheXerox: My statement was not at all inferring that such thoughts was an insult. From the very start of this thread it has been assumed that the parents were the blame for his suicide and that the only possible explanation for it would be that he was gay despite there being a lack of anything in the article saying anything remotely close to that. What is stated is that he had a night out with his parents the evening before and it seemed to go well. Furthermore, other articles I read about this stated that Warren's son worked in the church's bookstore, is that a behavior consistent of somebody who supposedly hates his son so much for being gay that it would drive that son to suicide?

Yes, that behavior is very consistent, especially the "dinner went well, nothing wrong etc" part.

I heard this on the news this evening. All it said was that Warren's 27 year old son committed suicide. I turned to my wife and said "aaaah, he was probably gay". There was no malice, humor, etc. She's not political and doesn't even know what Fark is, there was nobody to impress and no smartass comments to make. In this thread, we have a bunch of "How dare you libtards", and the translation of that is "How dare you say what you were honestly thinking". There were millions of good, decent average people with no agenda who thought that too, I assure you.

A lot of people don't like to hear the truth. As I said earlier, maybe Warren will do some soul-searching, regardless of why his son killed himself. Hopefully, he'll back off with his anti-gay rhetoric when he realizes how many confused young gay people have ended their lives in part due to hatred, even if his son wasn't one of them.


And just because you want something to be true doesn't mean that it is.
 
2013-04-07 01:50:29 AM

Corn_Fed: Geez, this thread depresses me almost as much as Rick Warren's kid.

I like to think that we liberals aren't as stupid as Palin, but this thread has me seriously reconsidering.

There is absolutely no evidence this poor kid was gay, and I merely accept the facts of mental illness given until there is other evidence to reconsider.


sex0r: There's no hate like liberal hate.

 
2013-04-07 01:50:44 AM

PhaserQuest: My guess is that either the church and Warren himself are progressing changing their tune as to not alienate their income stream or Warren comes off really stupid at times when he doesn't have help to express himself.


FTFY
 
2013-04-07 01:51:12 AM
Goodie! Another Fark Liberal/Progressive Love, Tolerance and Dignity thread. I love these so much. They show the true colors of their little shriveled souls.
 
2013-04-07 01:55:02 AM

bugontherug: Rick Warren most likely supports execution of homosexuals. He refused to condemn Uganda's gay execution until pressured to do so, and then his condemnation was weak and pro-forma. He also compares homosexuals to child molesters, and says they should be treated similarly. He has enlisted Christian youth to emotionally torture homosexuals through harassment and bullying.


Got any proof on any of that? Any direct quotes at all (besides the "most likely supports the execution of homosexuals" which is just simply trying to read someone's mind and just your opinion)?

bugontherug: Rick Warren is an evil man, as evil as any neo-Nazi. All his pain is a positive good added to the world.


How exactly will an "evil" man's pain bring positive good? I mean, sure...the guy is a douche. But is there some kind of documented schadenfreude effect that bestows some kind of benefit to the world from the suffering of assholes?
 
2013-04-07 01:56:52 AM

Peter von Nostrand: I'd also point out that the right took plenty of shots at Chelsea and now the Obama girls. So claiming the high ground here is farking hilarious. Had something similar happened to someone identified as being on the left, the usual League of Fail members would be here saying much worse


Would that be the Chelsea that nobody ever much said anything about until she was in her 20s and the left went absolute apeshait over when they did? As opposed to the left who tried to make a sitcom about the Bush daughters until people spoke out?

Rick Warren is scum of the earth but people are just pulling the "his son was probably gay" thing out of their arse with no evidence at all because it makes them feel so much better about themselves for some stupid reason. You don't demonstrate that Rick Warren is a prick by stooping to his level and the people going 'Well his son was probably gay' need to STFU because no matter what sort of jerk Warren is, they are not helping by acting this way.

If anything a guy like Warren is going to collect all these hateful comments and they will be kindling on a fire he will use to stir up more support for himself.
 
2013-04-07 01:57:34 AM

thenumber5: soaboutthat: Hobodeluxe: [wonkette.com image 490x205]

Not only is your statement a lie but the irony that a millionaire pastor who is tax exempt would say this is not lost on me.

The church would be tax exempt but the preacher pays personal taxes at the self-employed rate.  Don't try to correct his lie with a lie of your own.  Warren is a jackass but if your going to insult him, get it right.

and his home, Car, wardrobe and all "living Expensive's" are paid out of the Church account

his salary is basically his pocket money


that I'm sure is all put in tax shelters (probably offshore)
 
2013-04-07 01:57:38 AM

miss diminutive: bugontherug: Rick Warren most likely supports execution of homosexuals. He refused to condemn Uganda's gay execution until pressured to do so, and then his condemnation was weak and pro-forma. He also compares homosexuals to child molesters, and says they should be treated similarly. He has enlisted Christian youth to emotionally torture homosexuals through harassment and bullying.

Got any proof on any of that? Any direct quotes at all (besides the "most likely supports the execution of homosexuals" which is just simply trying to read someone's mind and just your opinion)?

bugontherug: Rick Warren is an evil man, as evil as any neo-Nazi. All his pain is a positive good added to the world.

How exactly will an "evil" man's pain bring positive good? I mean, sure...the guy is a douche. But is there some kind of documented schadenfreude effect that bestows some kind of benefit to the world from the suffering of assholes?


A healthy belief in karma? I'll take that over all the supposed positive benefits people like Warren claim their imaginary friends have any day.
 
2013-04-07 01:57:48 AM

violentsalvation: Bullshiat. Everything you typed is bullshiat.


Everything I typed is objective reality.

Rick Warren fails to condemn gay execution bill:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT &o q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT&gs_l=serp.3...6014.10863.0.11338.26.13.0.0.0. 1.2730.2730.9-1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.8.psy-ab._ZG5YRfSRsE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,o r.r_qf.&fp=849a5b668cddd045&biw=1280&bih=635

Rick Warren compares homosexuals to child molesters--and I want to be clear here, I really understated this. He didn't just compare homosexuals to child molesters. He compared them to violent criminals and rapists too. He argued that just as child molesters shouldn't be permitted to marry children, neither should homosexuals be permitted to marry each other:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT &o q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT&gs_l=serp.3...6014.10863.0.11338.26.13.0.0.0. 1.2730.2730.9-1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.8.psy-ab._ZG5YRfSRsE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,o r.r_qf.&fp=849a5b668cddd045&biw=1280&bih=635

I cannot adequately link Rick Warren to enlisting youth to harass homosexuals. I'm sorry I said that. Nonetheless, his years of spewing bile against homosexuals conclusively prove 1) that not everything I said is bullsh*t, and 2) that he is an evil man.
 
2013-04-07 01:58:43 AM
Great. Now we hate people with beds.
 
2013-04-07 01:59:03 AM

WTF Indeed: Okay. Just making sure you know how sad and pathetic that is.


About 0.678 WTF Indeeds on the Sad-ass Farker™ scale.
 
2013-04-07 02:00:57 AM

bugontherug: violentsalvation: Bullshiat. Everything you typed is bullshiat.

Everything I typed is objective reality.

Rick Warren fails to condemn gay execution bill:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT &o q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT&gs_l=serp.3...6014.10863.0.11338.26.13.0.0.0. 1.2730.2730.9-1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.8.psy-ab._ZG5YRfSRsE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,o r.r_qf.&fp=849a5b668cddd045&biw=1280&bih=635

Rick Warren compares homosexuals to child molesters--and I want to be clear here, I really understated this. He didn't just compare homosexuals to child molesters. He compared them to violent criminals and rapists too. He argued that just as child molesters shouldn't be permitted to marry children, neither should homosexuals be permitted to marry each other:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT &o q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT&gs_l=serp.3...6014.10863.0.11338.26.13.0.0.0. 1.2730.2730.9-1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.8.psy-ab._ZG5YRfSRsE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,o r.r_qf.&fp=849a5b668cddd045&biw=1280&bih=635

I cannot adequately link Rick Warren to enlisting youth to harass homosexuals. I'm sorry I said that. Nonetheless, his years of spewing bile against homosexuals conclusively prove 1) that not everything I said is bullsh*t, and 2) that he is an evil man.


Half the reasons I or any of the other bullied kids in school were bullied because of the stupid shiat their religious parents taught them.

Any parent who preaches the kind of crap that Warren spews out of his detestable mouth is recruiting children to torture other children, homosexual or not.
 
2013-04-07 02:02:27 AM

sex0r: There's no hate like liberal hate.


No liberals are hating. No one knows if the son was gay or not. Its all speculation and opinion. But highly likely, or it wouldn't be speculated or opined. But what kind of person would assume that is being hateful?Someone who hates gays would assume that it is hate to opine that the son was gay.
 
2013-04-07 02:04:21 AM

iq_in_binary: miss diminutive: bugontherug: Rick Warren most likely supports execution of homosexuals. He refused to condemn Uganda's gay execution until pressured to do so, and then his condemnation was weak and pro-forma. He also compares homosexuals to child molesters, and says they should be treated similarly. He has enlisted Christian youth to emotionally torture homosexuals through harassment and bullying.

Got any proof on any of that? Any direct quotes at all (besides the "most likely supports the execution of homosexuals" which is just simply trying to read someone's mind and just your opinion)?

bugontherug: Rick Warren is an evil man, as evil as any neo-Nazi. All his pain is a positive good added to the world.

How exactly will an "evil" man's pain bring positive good? I mean, sure...the guy is a douche. But is there some kind of documented schadenfreude effect that bestows some kind of benefit to the world from the suffering of assholes?

A healthy belief in karma? I'll take that over all the supposed positive benefits people like Warren claim their imaginary friends have any day.


Pfft, you can't trust that. Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos.
 
2013-04-07 02:04:25 AM

Kevin72: But highly likely, or it wouldn't be speculated or opined.


Like belief in God, right?
 
2013-04-07 02:05:03 AM

miss diminutive: Got any proof on any of that? Any direct quotes at all (besides the "most likely supports the execution of homosexuals" which is just simply trying to read someone's mind and just your opinion)?


No "mind reading." Human beings routinely and correctly infer state of mind through actions. We evolved to do so. When someone only says something after intense public pressure to say it, it is a fair and reasonable inference, arguable in court, that he didn't mean what he said. That is Rick Warren's circumstance, and the inference that he supports execution of homosexuals, who he compares to violent criminals, rapists, and child molesters, isn't merely fair: it is the most plausible one under the circumstances.

I've already linked elsewhere to his remarks comparing homosexuals to violent criminals, rapists, and child molesters, and arguing that they should be treated similarly. I cannot adequately link him to Christian youth who harass homosexuals, and I've already withdrawn that statement.

Rick Warren is an evil man who has abused his position of public influence to vomit bile against homosexuals. That in turn makes him partially responsible for harassment of and high suicide rates among homosexuals. His son committing suicide is tragic: I'm sorry he suffered so much he wanted to die. But his father's pain is karmic justice.
 
2013-04-07 02:07:14 AM

Kevin72: No liberals are hating. No one knows if the son was gay or not. Its all speculation and opinion. But highly likely, or it wouldn't be speculated or opined.


Okay.  There is no way you are serious.
 
2013-04-07 02:07:44 AM

miss diminutive: iq_in_binary: miss diminutive: bugontherug: Rick Warren most likely supports execution of homosexuals. He refused to condemn Uganda's gay execution until pressured to do so, and then his condemnation was weak and pro-forma. He also compares homosexuals to child molesters, and says they should be treated similarly. He has enlisted Christian youth to emotionally torture homosexuals through harassment and bullying.

Got any proof on any of that? Any direct quotes at all (besides the "most likely supports the execution of homosexuals" which is just simply trying to read someone's mind and just your opinion)?

bugontherug: Rick Warren is an evil man, as evil as any neo-Nazi. All his pain is a positive good added to the world.

How exactly will an "evil" man's pain bring positive good? I mean, sure...the guy is a douche. But is there some kind of documented schadenfreude effect that bestows some kind of benefit to the world from the suffering of assholes?

A healthy belief in karma? I'll take that over all the supposed positive benefits people like Warren claim their imaginary friends have any day.

Pfft, you can't trust that. Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos.


Hey, the cosmos are preached about by people like Neil DeGrasse Tyson. That's a cult I could really dig.
 
2013-04-07 02:08:44 AM

iq_in_binary: A healthy belief in karma? I'll take that over all the supposed positive benefits people like Warren claim their imaginary friends have any day.


We put rapists in prison, for example, partly in order to give their victims the satisfaction of their suffering. That satisfaction is a positive good. Likewise, the satisfaction that victims of Rick Warren's campaign of hate against homosexuals experience because of his grief is a positive good.
 
2013-04-07 02:10:39 AM

bugontherug: iq_in_binary: A healthy belief in karma? I'll take that over all the supposed positive benefits people like Warren claim their imaginary friends have any day.

We put rapists in prison, for example, partly in order to give their victims the satisfaction of their suffering. That satisfaction is a positive good. Likewise, the satisfaction that victims of Rick Warren's campaign of hate against homosexuals experience because of his grief is a positive good.


Pardon me, I thought I was responding to Miss Dimunitive's remark asking if the suffering of an evil person is a positive good. For some reason I quoted your statement instead.

But it's way past my bedtime. Good night, even to the douches who defended Pastor Hitler himself. = P
 
2013-04-07 02:10:41 AM

s2s2s2: Kevin72: But highly likely, or it wouldn't be speculated or opined.

Like belief in God, right?


God is highly likely, or God wouldn't be speculated or opined so much.
 
2013-04-07 02:11:18 AM

bugontherug: violentsalvation: Bullshiat. Everything you typed is bullshiat.

Everything I typed is objective reality.

Rick Warren fails to condemn gay execution bill:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT &o q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT&gs_l=serp.3...6014.10863.0.11338.26.13.0.0.0. 1.2730.2730.9-1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.8.psy-ab._ZG5YRfSRsE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,o r.r_qf.&fp=849a5b668cddd045&biw=1280&bih=635

Rick Warren compares homosexuals to child molesters--and I want to be clear here, I really understated this. He didn't just compare homosexuals to child molesters. He compared them to violent criminals and rapists too. He argued that just as child molesters shouldn't be permitted to marry children, neither should homosexuals be permitted to marry each other:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT &o q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT&gs_l=serp.3...6014.10863.0.11338.26.13.0.0.0. 1.2730.2730.9-1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.8.psy-ab._ZG5YRfSRsE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,o r.r_qf.&fp=849a5b668cddd045&biw=1280&bih=635

I cannot adequately link Rick Warren to enlisting youth to harass homosexuals. I'm sorry I said that. Nonetheless, his years of spewing bile against homosexuals conclusively prove 1) that not everything I said is bullsh*t, and 2) that he is an evil man.


Those two links go to the same Google search. I read the NYT stories and saw that (1) Warren was not one of the three missionaries who gave the talks precipitating the bill and (2) he condemned it when he heard about it. Does he think homosexual behavior is wrong? Undoubtedly he does -- although reading the links, it sounds like his comparisons were less on the order of "Gays should be in prison" than "Not all attractions should be acted on, and I think this is one of them." Condemn him all you like for that. Does he secretly want gay people to be killed? Only he knows that. But your mind-reading schtick and Godwinning aren't overly convincing.
 
2013-04-07 02:14:18 AM

bugontherug: violentsalvation: Bullshiat. Everything you typed is bullshiat.

Everything I typed is objective reality.

Rick Warren fails to condemn gay execution bill:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT &o q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT&gs_l=serp.3...6014.10863.0.11338.26.13.0.0.0. 1.2730.2730.9-1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.8.psy-ab._ZG5YRfSRsE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,o r.r_qf.&fp=849a5b668cddd045&biw=1280&bih=635

Rick Warren compares homosexuals to child molesters--and I want to be clear here, I really understated this. He didn't just compare homosexuals to child molesters. He compared them to violent criminals and rapists too. He argued that just as child molesters shouldn't be permitted to marry children, neither should homosexuals be permitted to marry each other:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT &o q=rick+warren+uganda+NYT&gs_l=serp.3...6014.10863.0.11338.26.13.0.0.0. 1.2730.2730.9-1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.8.psy-ab._ZG5YRfSRsE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,o r.r_qf.&fp=849a5b668cddd045&biw=1280&bih=635

I cannot adequately link Rick Warren to enlisting youth to harass homosexuals. I'm sorry I said that. Nonetheless, his years of spewing bile against homosexuals conclusively prove 1) that not everything I said is bullsh*t, and 2) that he is an evil man.


He failed to condemn something so he must be for it? And he made himself clear that he does not conflate homosexuality with pedophilia or incest. Link

FWIW, I don't like the man, or his gospel.
 
2013-04-07 02:14:25 AM

Musikslayer: TheXerox: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

GAT_00: Hoban Washburne: Codenamechaz: I'm assuming by "struggle with mental illness", they mean "He was gay and we were so intolerant of it and him that it drove him to end his life"

If that is the case, the parents deserve every bit of pain/sadness/guilt they are feeling and then some.

There's no reason a pastor like this would feel guilty about driving his gay son to suicide.

Benevolent Misanthrope: "At 27 years of age, Matthew was an incredibly kind, gentle and compassionate young man whose sweet spirit was encouragement and comfort to many," Saddleback Church said in the statement. "Unfortunately, he also suffered from mental illness resulting in deep depression and suicidal thoughts."

Ah.  So he was gay.  Jeebus gave him an illness to make him go away.

/FOAD, Rick Warren and all his ilk


What the hell is wrong with you people? The article said not one farking thing about their son's sexual orientation and you just HAD to assume he was gay, based solely upon the wording of the Warren's statement,

Actually, it's based on Occam's Razor, as it's the most likely scenario.

Nobody should blame Warren for his son's death. What they should blame him for is statements like yours, which infers that someone thinking his son was gay is some kind of insult. It might be ironic, or even prophetic, but it's not an insult. If, somehow, assuming that Warren's son was gay makes him icky, then blame Warren for that. It's very sad to see a young man commit suicide, we had one in my family and it is still painful (it was a straight female) after many years. Hopefully, Warren will be able to do a little soul-seaching, he's a pretty bright guy and moderate on many issues.


No, actually, it's not the most likely scenario - suicidal thoughts, depression, etc., are pretty damned common. About 32k people suicide every year (according to wikipedia anyway) - and just like the population at large, the vast majority are - like your family member - heterosexual.

By far the most common reason for suicide is a real mental illness (not homosexuality.) So the reason in TFA is actually the most likely / simplest explanation.
 
2013-04-07 02:15:28 AM

Relatively Obscure: Kevin72: No liberals are hating. No one knows if the son was gay or not. Its all speculation and opinion. But highly likely, or it wouldn't be speculated or opined.

Okay.  There is no way you are serious.


Of course I'm serious. I did not have proof that the son was gay so I toned down my rhetoric to calling it speculation and opinion. But I will say that it is not hateful to speculate that the son was gay. Only someone who hates gays would say that it is hateful to speculate that the son was gay.
 
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